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Subscribe to RSSAndrea Mitchell talks with Rachel Maddow about the breaking news that the Department of Justice, with the confirmation hearing for John Brennan to head the CIA looming, will share their legal reasoning for extrajudicial targeting of Americans with drone strikes with the intelligence committees in Congress.
Updated at 9:44 p.m. ET -- Reversing its course, the White House will now brief members of Congress on the legal justifications for drone strikes against U.S. citizens, an administration official said Wednesday night.
"Today, as part of the president's ongoing commitment to consult with Congress on national security matters, the president directed the Department of Justice to provide the congressional intelligence committees access to classified Office of Legal Counsel advice related to the subject of the Department of Justice White Paper," the official said.
The Justice Department paper, first obtained by NBC News, concluded that the United States can legally order the killing of American citizens believed to be al-Qaida leaders.
Until Wednesday, the administration would not even confirm these memos existed.
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, said in a statement Wednesday night she was pleased with the White House's decision.
"I am pleased that the president has agreed to provide the Intelligence Committee with access to the OLC opinion regarding the use of lethal force in counterterrorism operations. It is critical for the committee's oversight function to fully understand the legal basis for all intelligence and counterterrorism operations," Feinstein's statement read.
Earlier Wednesday, the Associated Press reported that White House spokesman Jay Carney said Obama was engaged in an internal process deliberation to determine how to balance the nation's security needs with its values. He said Obama was committed to providing more information to Congress, even as he refused to acknowledge whether the drone memo even existed.
"He thinks that it is legitimate to ask questions about how we prosecute the war against al-Qaida," Carney said. "These are questions that will be with us long after he is president and long after the people who are in the seats that they're in now have left the scene."
Some legal experts warned that the secret memo threatened constitutional rights and dangerously expanded the definition of national self-defense and of what constitutes an imminent attack.
The administration’s decision to give the memo to the congressional intelligence committees comes a day before the Senate confirmation hearing Thursday for John Brennan, President Barack Obama’s pick to lead the CIA. Brennan was an architect of the administration’s controversial escalation of drone strikes to take out suspected militants.
Members of Congress have expressed serious reservations about the memo. On Wednesday, Rep. Ron Wyden, D-Ore. and a member of the House Intelligence Committee, told NBC News Radio that the memo “doesn’t answer the central questions” revolving around an important policy decision: "When does the government have the legal right to kill an American?"
"The administration has essentially been stonewalling the committee and myself and others for over two years by not actually making that memo available with someone willing to answer questions about it," Wyden said.
Related:
Wyden vows to 'pull out all the stops' to get 'actual legal analysis' on drones
Leave a Comment:
First!
Maybe fisted got her welfare check today and passed out drunk already??
You mean 'Festering Pus head'?
You guys are cruel. Maybe she just got a job.
First idiot... I'm sure your parents are gleaming right now.
Now, on to the subject at hand. If any of you RWNJs would rather send your sons and daughters into full frontal combat than snipe these bastards from the air, then you go head on and keep pissing about this.
Collateral damage has happened in every type of warfare from day one. Too damn bad. That is why it's called war.
Killing Americans without due process is just plain evil......... Isn't that called murder?
What is next, 007 with license to kill.This goes beyond drones this is license to kill. Liberals call IMPEACH BUSH for less that this. Where are those patriotic liberals defenders of the constitution. Hypocrisy at the highest. I heard some where from a candidate for 2008 Presidential election, "Water boarding violates our ideals and our values. I do believe that it is torture. I don’t think that’s just my opinion; that’s the opinion of many who’ve examined the topic.…...." Obama. The killing of Americans without 'Due process' (the legal requirement that the state must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person) , violate our values and our Constitution and is even worst than water boarding, nobody died or was hurt under this kind of interrogation .
maddog... do you REALLY consider someone who defects and plots against us, an American still?
wait till they try to stick a drone up your tail pipe...then tell me how ya feel bout it...and what's with the...nice picture of the sea hags sister...
Have you been to war Oneof? i totally agree with using drones.You can interdict the enemy on the ground with drones but,if you want to keep the ground you have to use ground forces.The ground cannot be controlled from the air.By the way.Only a left wing nut job would believe that drones can do everything in the Military.
oskar and dumb bob.... if Bush had done this, you would both be wrapping yourself in the flag and you know it. An "American conspiring against us is no longer an American.
wolfhound... YES, I was a tank gunner in Korea with 1/72nd Armor, 2nd Infantry. Have you served?
Don't tell me @!$%# about seeing death up close.
Seriously.... think about it: A person you went to grade school with turns out later on in life to be a full-blown terrorist with Al Qaeda. Some of you idiots would rather weed out his buddies just to detain him and give him his due process??
Is it me or does everyone here have short term memory loss? Remember John Walker Lindh.... the American Taliban?
Nevermind... I now think it is selective memory....
A clear case of cutting off the nose to spite your face if I ever saw it.
"Killing Americans without due process is just plain evil......... Isn't that called murder?" LOL! In my city, dude, cops do it every day. It's called a job.
Maybe some of you elite thinkers can explain something to me, You vilified Bush 43 over Gitmo, but you are silent on Obama's continued use of it. You called it torture and illegal imprisonment without due process, but killing someone in a drone attack, without due process, mind you,is OK? I'm not necessarily opposed to Gitmo or drone strikes, just wondering how some of you can be so morally, er.., flexible,
Oneofthesane, yeah, unless they have given up their citizenship, then it's a different situation. What bothers me about this is it sounds like a solution a gangster minded person would do, murder is murder now matter how you rationalize it.
You are ignorant , you can accuse an American terrorist for be a traitor, take to court sentence to death, but a public official can not order the killing of an American citizen because is protected under the US Constitution. In this case Bill Ayers who attempt against Pentagon and other Federal Offices could be killed under this memo and not longer be College Professor. Let me make this clear, I'm against the radical Muslims terrorist ,who kill innocents and the message of death that they carry along with their twisted believe of their religion, of course they deserve to die, but when an American is involve he is still an American and the Government has no constitutional authority to kill an American Terrorist without due process. I'm clear smarty.Don't be more hypocrite defending this unconstitutional memo.
On_the_other_hand
It's important to understand that many of our "moral" positions are evolving, depending on who is running the circus. While waterboarding offends us and we appreciate the nuisances of Islam if Bush is in charge, sending a Hellfire missle up a guys backdoor is OK now cause... just cause! Now if we could just kill Bill Ayers this way!
maddog... "unless they have given up their citizenship".
Are you F'N kidding me? They gave up their citizenship the moment they joined Al Qaeda. @!$%# 'em.
oskar... I love the way you start the name calling when your argument gets weak. READ THE FREAKING MEMO!!! No American could be killed on American soil under this memo.
There is NO good reason that if a US citizen is considered a terrorist that the person could not at the least be tried in a US federal court. If found guilty then it's time to stuff a drone up his rear-end.
Without following US law for US citizens, we are giving up due process. For those who think it's ok because they trust the current admin, just remember that administrations change and the next President may decide that certain liberal activists are a threat when overseas and drone them.
Well weel, for once I actually agree with you righties. HOWEVER, if George Bush had done the same thing you would be on here praising him for protecting your freedom so don't break an arm patting yourselves on the back. If the patriot act had never passed, this would not be happening. Remember when you thought it was a good idea to say goodbye to hebius corpus? Yeah well welcome to the real fear. Oh and where the hell were you when we could have stopped this? Praising Jesus Bush as I recall.
Congress voted for an passed the Patriot Act! Congress has been in the dark on the drone assisination program!
I can only hope that Congress will read the entire proposal that this memo is about and answer these and other questions that have arisen since it was made public! These are the three standards: (1) where an informed, high level official of the U.S. government has determined that the targeted individual poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the United States; (2) where a capture operation would be infeasible – and where those conducting the operation continue to monitor whether capture becomes feasible; and (3) where such an operation would be conducted consistent with applicable law of war principles. In these circumstances, the ‘realities’ of the conflict and the weight of the government’s interest in protecting its citizens from an imminent attack are such that the Constitution would not require the government to provide further process to such a U.S. citizen before using lethal force.” Question #1: Who is the individual making the decision to sign the attack order and what is their ranking or level in our government? Question#2: What are they using as the definition for: posing an "imminent threat" of an attack against the United States? Question#3: What is their determination for capture operation as "infeasible"? Question#4: Why would we send in a drone into a country that we apparently have good relations with, instead of asking them to assist in the capture of these individuals? Question#5: Who is the individual that is able to make the decision that it is "infeasible" to capture the individual? Question#6: Who has the power to monitor and say that a capture is feasible? Question#7: Are these the same person making these decisions about capture? Question#8: What makes a capture "infeasible" or for someone to be captured? Question#9: Are the people monitoring the feasibility of capture on the ground or satellite observers? Question#10: How can satellite observers make a true decision on the feasibility of capture, since they are not at actual site? Question#11: What makes an operation consistent with applicable law of war principles? Question#12: What does ‘realities’ of the conflict and the weight of the government’s interest in protecting its citizens from an imminent attack actually defined as? Question13 Where do you find the power in the Constitution that would not require the government to provide further process to such a U.S. citizen before using lethal force? Question#14: Can you explain to me how we give foreign born prisoners the very rights that we are denying our citizens? There are more questions to be asked and I look forward to seeing yours!!!
@Bugfart, I didn't know this until today, but there was a US citizen killed on 11/03/2002 in Yemen by our first drone attack there, his name was Kemal Derwish aka Ahmed Hijazi! I didn't remember this but this site that will give you some info on it: wsws.org/en/articles/2002/11/yem-n12.html Where was I? This is what Obama will probably claim as his legal precedence! I think that was illegal then also!
@bugfart You might also look at the NDAA of 2012 of the Indefinite Detention Clause and its continuation in NDAA 2013 That has happened under President Obama's service to our great country!Here is a site to view: rt.com/usa/news/obama-ndaa-detention-president-288/
i am as liberal as you can get, but if an american citizens chooses to turn against this country and align him/herself with our enemy and is proactively and with hatred calling for the violent overthrow of our government and the demise of its people-if that person has come to be in a position of authority and is not only advocating our destruction but giving aid and information to our enemy in order to kill us, then that person is not longer an american. if it's possible to catch them, fine, that isn't always possible and the damage they could do far outweighs their 'rights.' the difference between this and gitmo is that these people are NOT in custody! if they were then they would be extradited to this country and tried for treason, but they are hiding in the hills where we can't get to them without sacrificing the lives of americans who love their country. why should our soldiers die to save the sorry a**ses of these criminals? forget it. they gave up their rights when they turned against their country. if they don't want to die and want their day in court, then they should come out of hiding like the cowards that they are and have their day in court. instead they hide like animals and boast their superiority from a cave! i have no trouble sleeping at night knowing that they are dead. maybe i feel so adamant about this because i, being very liberal really love my country and right or wrong you don't turn against it; you fight to make it better. and you do it the right way.
Mike, read the law on being tried in absentia. From Wiki: In common law legal systems, conviction of a person in absentia, that is, in a trial in which he/she is not present to answer the charges, is held to be a violation of natural justice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_absentia
Now if a US citizen chooses to go to war with the US then he exposes himself to the consequences. After all criminals are wanted dead or alive all the time and to endanger our servicemen to unnecessary danger trying to capture one that's in a hostile country for trial in ludicrous.
Now I have to laugh at the phony outrage from the Obama haters. Really its a joke how you act outrage only because it's Obama doing it instead of Bush, McCain, or Romney.
@One of the Sane, We are not at war with Yemen, they are a sovereign nation that has received much money to allow us to use drones in their country in their[read our] fight against "Terrorists" and has killed some of their citizens in collateral damage. This means to me that we would also have their help in the capture of these targeted US citizens so thst they can have their due process instead of being killed! We must prove that they are in effect traitors! How does a 16 year old US citizen deserve to be assasinated? We give the foreign born prisoners in Gitmo our Constitutional legal rights, don't our own citizens deserve the same? What do you think the people in Yemen think of us violating their sovereignty? I am sure it is not making us any friends! Yet we are doing these drone attacks in Pakistan ,Yemen and Somalia, and the last time I looked we were not at war with any of them!
For the first few posts, Desoto, Winger and John.. You guy's obsession with Feisty Redhead is getting downright embarrassing.
Alessa, I agree with you somewhat but my concern is down the road. What if the definition of terrorist becomes ever more broad?
The constitution explicitly cites that any and all Americans are afforded due process. We need to uphold that principle regardless of what they have done or might do in the future.
>Larry... That was my thought but was replying quickly. I feel the same no matter who does it. An American citizen deserves a trial before being executed unless that person is firing at an American soldier on a battlefield or is killed during an attempt to apprehend. A cop can't just shoot Wanted Dead or Alive US Citizens with a sniper's rifle and call it justified.
>Alessa... During the McCarthy time many from Hollywood were considered the most extreme threats possible to our country, would you support our government at that time sending a drone after them? What about when Jane Fonda protested the Vietnam War and while visiting NV called for the downfall of our government and sat in a NVA gunner's seat of a gun used to shoot down American War Planes? Would it have been ok for the US government to have sent a drone in and killed her?
Use caution of what you ask for as without checks and balances at some point they will come for you.
This act is dangerous because in the hands of someone like a J Edgar Hoover, almost any protester could be presented as a terrorist. If Margaret Thatcher had had drones, she could have just bombed all of Ireland and been done with it, or bombed Gandhi and all of India. Yes, if George Bush was doing this, I would have called him the demon seed. I don't understand why it's not okay to torture people but it's aok to kill suspected terrorists and the neighborhoods they inhabit. No one person should wield the power of life and death.
Its a good thing the mainstream media didn't jump on this when it was actually 'news' because then the administration wouldn't have had time to concoct a presumably dictionary sized explanation.
Well duh, the document was leaked of course congress wants to know now.
Or Nixon could have killed Bill Ayers as he was actively bombing things back in the day.
I find it interesting BO is outraged at pouring water on someone, yet without going before a judge will light up an american with a hellfire missle??????
When Alberto Gonzalez said pouring water on someone was OK people wanted him investigated and indicted and put on trial. Those same people aren't saying anything now when their President puts out a secret memo that says its OK to kill Americans without so much as a judge or trial?
BO is the ultimate hypocrit for promoting this document of killing WITHOUT DUE PROCESS and yelling against pouring water on someone. Leads me to believe he can't possibly be against waterboarding while promoting death without any due process. Was all lip service.
Larry, ellisa, this document is very open ended and open to interpretation. It is not cut and dry as to who gets smoked.
In my example above Bill Ayers fits right into the description of who this would apply to when he bombed the pentagon, and i think a few other things. Under this document Nixon could have killed Bill Ayers 40 years ago.
oneofthesane, You were in Korea? You must be 85 years old
That's just who we need on this...Andrea Mitchell, the lying headmistress of the "Andrea Mitchell School of Blatantly Misrepresentative Video Editing" and her star student Rachel Madcow. Once they get off their knees and wipe their chins I'm sure they'll get right to the bottom of this.
Are you all so ignorant in your claim to sides that you don't see that this isn't about "right or left" or "dems vs repubs"? This about our basic right to live without the constant fear that one day someone might pull the trigger on all of us because of this document. We should be united in our fight againt this! Someone, someday might use this as a "legal" excuse to turn on anyone who opposed their view point for the so-called "greater good". This is why we are a democracy, "we the people" need to decide whats best for our country, not a select few. What is the checks and balances system in place for? This was crafted behind closed doors and hidden from the public eye until now. No vote happened, nothing was given to the people to decide. When I voted for the president there was no fine print that said he was being elected to represent himself and the elite few. We elected our officials to be the voice of the people to the rest of the world. This is why globalism couldn't and shouldn't work. Outside of our Government, the international community is the USA's checks and balances system. Checks and balances work to keep absolute power from a minority. The power is suppose to be with the people in this Country, that is what USED to make this country the promise land. Free from tyranny and oppression....
I really don't give a hoot about Al Kaida, but the idea we can kill off Americans with drones for being against the government, makes me very uneasy because of how it could be interpreted down the road.
@Oneofthesane, 1.4
Have you ever wondered why we are never NOT at war?
It's not a good situation, you don't want innocent people killed. That's a huge responsibility, firing a rocket into an area that may contain children. I wouldn't want that on me, but they are trying to kill Americans, especially service men and women. I wish the laser weapon was ready, with a terrorists name loaded. It's not. This keeps the ground troops safe, what to do? Terrorists are talking about how to kill us right now......
I have no problem with the President having the power to kill American citizens abroad if they are doing terrorist acts. This does not mean I am OK with just killing anyone just because you want them dead for their beliefs. Gray area, but there should be a set of rules to follow before giving a kill order. Checks and balances. I mean if they can put you on a no fly list, then why not a kill order?
Anyone who condones this President appointing himself as judge jury and executioner of any American "he" believes is a threat too this country is nuts. I don't care where an american citizen is. As long as they are an American citizen they are entitled to due process. Period. For this government to take up arms against the people even if it is believed they are doing wrong without due process is dictorial. This President is walking all over our constitution. ... since you claim to have served this country you should know full well what your dutie was and giving the President the ability to kill Americans at his will is NOT what our military fights for.
Why should we worry about foreign terrorists when we have our own government making war on us?
We have lost our right to a trial, our right to be charged with a crime before being imprisoned, our right to not be tortured by our "authorities," and now we have lost our right to not be murdered at will by government officials. The government has so much hubris and is so certain that Americans will just accept it as they have every other outrage that they are actually writing this into LAW!
They can take you from your house in the middle of the night, torture you for months, imprison you for years, and then kill you—without ever charging you with any crime whatsoever, without ever letting you have a lawyer, without ever reporting to any watchdog, without informing your family, and without any cause more substantial than some guy with a government position wanted to do it.
How would you have liked McCarthy, the psychotic cross-dressing Homophobe, to have had that power?
The U.S. government is making war on us. It has completely destroyed our Constitution now. This has become a police state in everything but name.
Yesterday I took an elderly friend to the Social Security office for the second time this week. He hadn't received his check and on the first visit he was told he would receive it yesterday. He didn't. He is old, somewhat confused, and very sick with late-stage congestive heart failure. We waited for two hours on the first trip, and over an hour yesterday.
The agent talked in a circle until my friend became upset. Although my friend wasn't yelling, threatening, or being rude to the person, he was obviously upset and frustrated with the lame excuses he was given. When he questioned the fact that the agent was talking in circles, he was told that if he didn't leave immediately, the agent would call the security guard.
My friend's shoulders slumped, and he turned away to go, tears falling down his cheeks. He needs his check to keep his electricity on. It's been near zero here for a week and he has a breathing machine. He worked all of his life, from age 16 to 64 paying into SS. Now some punk threatens him with a security guard and he is justifiably frightened of being tasered and dragged off to jail because he dared to answer back.
Is this really the kind of country we want to live in?
And I am sure Obama will have plenty of pretexts. What will it take for Americans to final stand up to this dictator and stop him?
_______________________________________________________________________
If anyone has past experience in killing Americans it is this criminal named Eric Holder who heads the Department of "Justice".
.
Eric Holder is the same idiot who authorized sending scores of weapons to Mexican drug gangs who turned around and used them to murder American agents.
Further, Eric Holders Department Of "Justice" was handed on a silver platter all of the evidence necessary to prosecute some of the biggest names on Wall Street, and those corrupt morons chose to do nothing.
THAT is our Department Of "Justice" under Eric Holder. They will prosecute Wesley Snipes or Martha Stewart, but not the "too big to prosecute" on Wall Street and in our filthy banking sector.
And we should place trust in our government to decide life and death of American Citizens with no due process??? No over sight???
Sounds like a bleak future for a nation founded under the now quaint fairy tale of "All men are equal in the eyes of the law."
.
(They have already OK'ed drone use here in America.)
.
Good question, but no. It's only bad if a Republican administration does it.
If the Democrats do it, then it's fine and justifiable because they're so compassionate and they "care". Just watch the "news" media, they'll tell you.
If congress needs the specifications of our drones, they should contact Iran, after all the Obama administration allowed one to land there. Of course both Iran and the Obama administration claims they captured it, which is pretty impressive for an unmanned drone that landed itself. I never read that it tried to run away and hide, or make it to a foreign embassy. They need to make those unmanned drones better at avoiding capture. The only thing that could have made this incident more honest, is if they had reported the drone landed wearing a big red bow and a card that read are we friends now.
Obama is such a clown that he can even find a way to piss off the libtards!
Drones are typically not used to track and kill individuals. They are used primarily against groups of terriorists. If an American terrorist is not with a group, track him down, arrest him, bring him to the States and put him on trial. If he is with a group of terrorist, tough luck guy. Call it collaterial damage or whatever you like. In my opinion, he just got in the way. When there's an opportunity to take out a group of the enemy, you can't cherry-pick those you want to kill and those you want to live. When the opportunity is there, you take it. If a citizen chooses to fight his own country, he must accept the consequences of war. BUT DO NOT DARE TAKE THIS APPROACH ON AMERICAN SOIL!
OneOfTheSane
No, he/she is STILL an American.
As an American, because we are a nation of laws governed by the Constitution, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Even when charged with treason, due process must be continued. Now, if you want this to be tried in a civil court or a military court is up to the justice system to decide.
I find it interesting that you bleeding heart Liberals/Progressives are the first to jump on the bandwagon to protect convicted murderers and rapists from capital punishment but you're so submissive to some government panel that decides some American is an enemy of the state and can just be murdered.
But then again you are probably Pro-Choice and don't feel murdering an innocent baby is criminal, aren't you?
Bush was wrong on parts of the Patriot Act, despite that, public opinion has actually increased since 2004 according to the Pew Research Center.
Here's the Fifth Amendment to our Constitution:
In relevant part: No person . . . shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.
There's nothing in there about "U.S. citizens", nor should there be. Our government is prohibited in the Constitution from depriving any person of their life or liberty without due process of law, citizen or not. A "person" equals human.
RTyp0 1.28
that person deserves every bit of ridicule you see...that person was a tyrant and ruined hundreds of threads...that person could not stand to see anyone elses comments...
we need to suppress the type of hysterical-mentality fiestyred had displayed and allow others to be read...
but Im right with you on the rest of your post, I feel the same...its whats down the road, even if we trust the people today, they gave the people of tomorrow the power to do anything they want with our lives...its not ok to trust someone we dont even know yet
JimSpence, I like your post, it includes a good example but I want to expand on this. Arizona SB1070 was found unconstitutional. ok. So we protect illegal aliens in our country because they are human, and our constitution protects humans....except if you are a citizen then those rules don't really apply....why cant we throw this back in Obama and his admins faces? and actually change him for the better? I just don't get his "one way my way even if its ironic and/OR hypocritical"?? good post jimspence, and logical...thats hard to find anymore
Whose to say who is doing what. If you don't think obama and holder will go after someone that is getting in thier way, your'e fu(king crazy!!!!!! Just look at the things holder did in the past to american citizens. He should of been put in prison. Somehow or another just like obama, thier above the law. NO ONE should have that priveledge and no one should be able to push the button without congress's approval. I can just see these ass holes blowing up and entire city block or more, and killing innocent american citizens!!!!! Obama should not be trusted and niether should some of his generals whom he has been asking if they would kill american citizens. Don't believe me just look at the shift in whose been fired at the whitehouse and whose still there. The ones who are there said they would fire on american citizens. This is told by one of obamas former generals!!!! This after obama and his generals all took an oath to the constituiton to protect american citizens!!!!! The constitution doesn't mean sh!t to obama!!!! He does what he wants, including lying thru his teeth and blaming it on national security. How come he didn't use a drone to go after bin laden if the proof was so solid, but he has no problem using them on american soil without due process or anything else. Why do you think they shoved the national defense act thru that violates the constitution . One of those violations is NO due process. You pussies who think we need all of this security is why we are losing all of these freedoms. The gov't is getting too much power and you chickensh!ts are the reason why!! The only reason we find out about these things is because good american citizens working for the gov't are reporting them. If this sh!t is so good for the country why has it been top secret for 2 years. Anything the gov't hides is illegal, what happened to the liar in chiefs transparency that he ran on in 2008! The man has a forged birth certificate and a stolen social security card from a dead man. All of his records are closed and you nitwit liberals let him get away with it!!!!! What do you think he is hiding nitwits!!!! He should be in prison and so shopuld some of the people in his cabinet. !!!!!!! Especially the ones who watched ambassador stevens and 2 navy seals get killed because they were covering up weapon sales!!!!!! Hilary clinton lied thru her teeth and she is gonna run for president in 2016. She's another peice of sh!t!! When are you liberals gonna get a set and vote for people who care about our country and not giveaway programs that pander for votes!!!!!
Obama is so afraid of the people that he has made over 1000 executive orders from martial law to murder!!!! He needs to be impeached and hopefully someone in washington will get the balls and do it. Problem is they would have a drone going up thier ass accidentally in the milddle of the night. The man is a coward and so are the people around him! We the people are still running this country obama and we will not let you get away with this. You liberals and people who think we need all this security are the reason for all of this!!! Get with the program and fight for your'e rights!!!!!!!! Demand answers, demand arrests in washington when they violate laws or the constitution. They would come after you in a minute just because you didn't do your'e taxes. Make thier lives a living hell. They work for us, thier supposed to be afraid of us!!! Oh!! I forgot all of you gungrabbers are trying to take our only means of defending ourselves from a tyrannical gov't away!!!
One of .you won't see this but we have been in the same Battalion before.19E m48A5
To..Tim"""
No he hasn't....
Obama’s Executive Orders
Posted on September 25, 2012
Q: Has President Barack Obama signed 900 executive orders, some of which create martial law?
A: No. Obama’s executive orders do not create martial law. And so far he has signed 139 executive orders — not 900
.FULL ANSWER
We’ve received several emails that claim Obama is using his executive powers to create martial law. They’re not true.
The email claims that Obama has issued 900 executive orders but lists orders that previous presidents signed. The email also inaccurately describes those orders.
Executive orders originated under George Washington, and their use stems from interpretations of Article II of the Constitution — which created the executive branch — and from presidential precedent.
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/09/obamas-executive-orders/
Administration of Barack Obama (2009-Present)
Disposition of Executive orders signed by President Barack Obama:
144 Total Executive orders Issued
Subject Index
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/obama.html
I know this is old but.. " if you're not a terrorist what have you got to worry about "
Remember that one
Tell that to the Jews in Nazi Germany.
The Fact they are American and still have Constitutional Rights. I say put them on trial for treason instead of using a drone, and you knows maybe government could kill anyone and say you where a terrorist
Our founders were terrorists to the Brits...
We should all be wise to remember that one as well.
To..Buffarilla"""
You can't be serious.....
Who deemed Anwar al-Awlaki a terrorist anyway...
we see how well boots on the ground works in dealing with terrorists ...hell we even attacked Iraq for 9/11 ..who's the terrorist sympathizers now
I am all for this program if limited to real terrorists but I have as much faith in this administration as I am that Barry gives a sh*t about the middle class now that he has been re-elected
If our government leaders step too far and it becomes the duty of the American People to fight against our government to protect the Constitution, then all who fight against our government to restore liberty and freedom can be declared terrorists and find ourselves blown away along with our families without any legal due process and no explanation required to justify the slaughter. They've mucked up in the past and hit the wrong homes in the Middle East. If one of those "Opps" moments happens here in the US, our government can just cover it up saying, "Yes, that family was made up of terrorists. The father was prepared to strap a bomb on himself, the mother, a master bomb maker and their 2 year old daughter was the mastermind of it all!!! Don't believe us? Well, there's nothing you can say or do about it!!! Maybe tomorrow, we'll send a few Hell-fires your way for speaking out against your government!!!"
To..Buffarilla """
Wonder what the body count would have been if they had drones during WWII....the drone project is pretty much dead in the water now ...
to.. The Khan"""
so you're suggesting an armed resurrection against the government
To..Buffarilla"""
You got more faith in congress to make these decisions ....wow
The only faith that I have in Barry is that he will make whatever decision is most expedient for his radical agenda.
To..Buffarilla""""
To funny ... Look who's the anti government anti elitists anti establishment radicals now
Boy the times they are a changing ...today's right make the 60's radicals look like angels
@Amunaka,
Perhaps, you will see it differently in this example. I believe Amunaka is a terrorist. Don't worry. I am sure the people at the NSA, CIA, FBI etc. that are monitoring this will not blow you up. Good luck!
Also, I have heard off instances where young children have been on the no fly list. What crimes have a children 7 and younger commit to get on that list? That is right our government is perfect! Moron!
i was just talking to one of my daughters about something close to this in a way....
you realise we have been flying drones in the US as an excuse to stop/track criminals who supposedly run drugs and so on? we have heard how many great stories about how these drones have been such an aide to ICE, DEA, FBI, USBP, and so on right? ya....
Now we have Nobamma the Clown giving rights to take out civilians deemed a terrorist, without trial, and no constitutional rights.... you realise right, that any group or person who does not believe in what the government does, right or wrong in believing so is a traitor, terroist? That even OWS (occupy wall street) groups had each of thier names put on a list as a possible terrorist/traitor? (pssst, it was in the news) That if this chunck of legislation goes thru, in time you will see/ hear of these drones doing their work on behalf of the American people... killing dissident attitueds.
oooooh that will never happen here.... not in the good old US of A! keep telling yourself that with each glass of koolaid....
Amunaka,
Right, wrong, or indifferent, the use of drones (or by any means) to kill US citizens without due process is unconstitutional...period. How did you pass high school history? Oh I forgot, public education in the US failed years ago.
Then again, nothing seems to be constitutional anymore. I forget that. My apologies.
To all of the above """
Wow really stretching it now aren't we ....
Hey send in boots then
hahaha the big "o" is classic. weren't we gonna close guantanamo and stop this stuff. hahahaha what a dick
Amunaka, so someone that doesn't agree with your Lib opinion is wrong and/or stretching it huh?
Dude, you are SO missing the issue. INALIENABLE RIGHTS...Obama admin basically said to heck with that...No fair trial...But SAME OBAMA admin that was against Enhanced Interrogation Techniques against foreign terrorists....
YOU KNOW...the same techniques used to locate Bin Laden, that Obama so readily bragged about and took "credit" for...
I guess you missed that news, huh?
Big "o" is going to do what he is told. Americans should have their torches, tar and feathers out for all 535 Senators and congressmen, Supreme Court and the executive. Your Nation has been taken over by a gang and you can't see it.
@Amunaka - You don't understand the Constitution that well, do you? This policy is saying that an American citizen can be found guilty of terrorism; judged, sentenced and executed, without proof in a court of law, it can be done just by the word of one person and it doesn't have to be explained or justified to the rest of us. That is against the Constitution and treasonous in itself. What's next, take away freedom of speech so a person can be executed just for speaking out against the government? Or how about ownership of property and businesses? Why should people be allowed to own things if they are not a benefit of those who rule us? Being out after the hours of darkness might also be considered an act of terrorism, so lets impose a curfew - why do people need to be out after dark anyhow? Let the government keep you safe, just give up a few freedoms and then a few more.
If you're not a terrorist, then what do you have to worry about, you asked? That predator is up there in the sky... The cameras on them are improved now, it only takes one to monitor and record an entire city and any location can be pointed to on the screen and focused in to see an area just 6 inches across. So, we see you in your car speeding, or what is that you are smoking in your back yard, could it be pot? Send someone to arrest him! Oh, didn't you know, we changed some of the Constitution the other day, you no longer have any rights!
I don't think anyone is suggesting sending in boots. I do think there needs to be some oversight into the killing of any American citizen. Do I think the first target was a terrorist? Absolutely. Do I think that his 16 year old son was innocent? Maybe, but I doubt it. He had almost surely been indoctrinated by his father and the religious extremists his father associated with. The problem here is that there is no way verify how this will be used in the future. Look at what you did just now to a fellow American. Because he used the word 'fight' which is the word that is always used for resistance to something, you automatically assumed he actually meant to take up arms and march on Washington. Maybe he only meant that we need to demand answers from the people who work for us. But under the new policy, he would never get the chance to say that because it would be ok to to kill him without asking. Our technology is outdistancing our laws and our ethics. We need to maintain our system of checks and balances to ensure that this is not used incorrectly. Even if you trust Obama, what about the next president, and the one after that, and the one after that.....
What is wrong with taking time to ponder how the mission might be accomplished without stepping on the rights of citizens? Why must we jump into something immediately without pondering responsibility and consequences?
To all of the above...
Terrorist sympathizers ...
This is unconstitutional. This is the hypocrisy from the left who cry aloud for the use of harsh interrogation to foreign suspected terrorist by Bush but support the killing of Americans because they believe are a treat. This is a big deal , we can't take this easy like Amunaka pretend to believe, this something that even ACLU is astonish. What is next , drones in USA territory, snipers killing citizens in American soil, this memo is so ambiguous that is totally again what we are as a nation.
Wow..."Comment collapsed by the community"
Too funny..what a community
Bravo!!! Couldn't of said it better myself! You should take up politics.. wouldn't mind having someone who thinks like you to vote for...
@Amunka "You got more faith in congress to make these decisions ....wow"
As bad as our Congress is 100 people will make better decisions for the "good" of the people/masses then 1 most of the time. If you want the rule of one then you are living in the wrong country.
Since you know it all can you answer the question of "When does the government have the legal right to kill an American?" Where is that line in the sand that determines WHEN our government can kill one of its own citizens without the due process guaranteed by our Constitution? Who makes that decision and could they not abuse that power for their own purposes?
"so you're suggesting an armed resurrection against the government"
What are you going to report him to the government for being a terrorist or are you that slow and special of a person? And people wonder why I call other people names sometimes, if the shoe fits... Considering how corrupt our government is right now it would not be a bad idea to do some house cleaning. Money and power are the only things that matter to the people in charge atm. We have let people acquire to much money and power for their own good.
/begin rant
Want to compare how deadly a billionaire can be compared to my semi-automatic rifle? How many people die each and every year due to profits and the all mighty dollar? Maybe we should ban billionaires or actually have a tax code that puts some limits on how much money one person can have. There was a reason for the 90% top tax rate we used to have in this country, but the 39% we have now is "to much and is Communism" according to many.
Why can one person not be happy with 10 to 20 times what others have and instead demand that they can have 100 times or 1000+ times more then others? Where does it all magically come from? Why have the middleclass lost money compared to rich ever since the top tax rate was dropped from 90%? Gee I wonder what our tax rates should be so that the system we created does not collapse... What percentage does friction max out at? 100%. Gee I wonder why God's system has friction in it and why it stops things from traveling as fast as they want to... I wonder why in God's system there is a limit on size and how large you can get or else you become a star giving back everything you just acquired. It has to be harder and harder to make more and more money or else. It should be the easiest for a poor person to make $100 for example compared to a rich person, WHICH IS NOT THE F***ING CASE. Gee I wonder where the problem is... How can ANY system magically supply that exponential gain for any duration of time? IT CANNOT.
/end rant
To you.. STFU troll. Who else seriously responds to every comment with a "to all the above..." lol get a life and stop mucking up America with your ignorance to this countries rights. The same rights that this country was founded on! If you really don't like 95% of Americans and their opinions on the constitutionality of this memo, then move on! I'm sure al-Qaida would take you in, after all you have no issues with having the authority to kill Americans with no questions asked!
What a hoot...
1. Are you suggesting the life cycle of govts end any other way, inevitably? They are conquered, collapse from some plague, or they are overthrown from within cyclically. That's just history.
2. Didn't our Founders use this method?
3. Didn't many of our Founders and Framers understand that to be the last recourse against a tyrannical govt? Hence the 2nd Amendment. What you call treason is rebellion against government. What they caled treason was seeking to overthrow a non-tyrannical govt by force, or selling out your nation to the enemy in war time. Even then, Jefferson thought rebels should be PARDONED:
Jefferson used nearly identical language in a letter to James Madison on January 30, 1787:
The motive of the rebellion is what makes it treason, not the act of rebellion itself. Try to remember that.
If you are living with a group that is know to have killed American citizens, you have opted to suffer the consequences of your choice. These US citizens are only citizens because they have not rescinded their citizenship. Living with known terrorist groups is, in my humble opinion, sufficient evidence to send you to your maker. To those who have not read the policy and talk about using drones in the United States, may I suggest you read before scribing. You are showing your stupidity. One part of the policy clearly states if there is no means to capture the individual. The government has multiple means of capturing the person, if the person is in the United States. These forums were intended for the intellectual exchange of ideals. Please read. If you are unwilling to read, or are a parrot, there are plenty of like-minded, uninformed-folks, waiting for your garbage. Better yet, find a fiction writers forum. You can make up anything you want, and you will not be challenged. Debate the facts.
Ohboe, I dont' think I ever said anything about being used on US soil. I don't think I advocated the innocence of the individuals that have already been killed by drones. I think my concern was that putting so much power in the hands of one person with no oversight is a dangerous road. Personally, that is not one I want to travel. I'd rather take the time now to establish some judicial process to ensure that this is not used unethically. I'm not concerned for myself. I don't think I make a blimp on anyone's radar. But it does concern me in that a person might be incorrectly identified as a terrorist because of either a mistake or by being a perceived danger to that one person's agenda. Absolute power corrupts and this policy is the worst kind of absolute power. To quote Obama himself "If that saves even one innocent life, we must act."
I can only hope that Congress will read the entire proposal that this memo is about and answer these and other questions that have arisen since it was made public! These are the three standards: (1) where an informed, high level official of the U.S. government has determined that the targeted individual poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the United States; (2) where a capture operation would be infeasible – and where those conducting the operation continue to monitor whether capture becomes feasible; and (3) where such an operation would be conducted consistent with applicable law of war principles. In these circumstances, the ‘realities’ of the conflict and the weight of the government’s interest in protecting its citizens from an imminent attack are such that the Constitution would not require the government to provide further process to such a U.S. citizen before using lethal force.” Question #1: Who is the individual making the decision to sign the attack order and what is their ranking or level in our government? Question#2: What are they using as the definition for: posing an "imminent threat" of an attack against the United States? Question#3: What is their determination for capture operation as "infeasible"? Question#4: Why would we send in a drone into a country that we apparently have good relations with, instead of asking them to assist in the capture of these individuals? Question#5: Who is the individual that is able to make the decision that it is "infeasible" to capture the individual? Question#6: Who has the power to monitor and say that a capture is feasible? Question#7: Are these the same person making these decisions about capture? Question#8: What makes a capture "infeasible" or for someone to be captured? Question#9: Are the people monitoring the feasibility of capture on the ground or satellite observers? Question#10: How can satellite observers make a true decision on the feasibility of capture, since they are not at actual site? Question#11: What makes an operation consistent with applicable law of war principles? Question#12: What does ‘realities’ of the conflict and the weight of the government’s interest in protecting its citizens from an imminent attack actually defined as? Question13 Where do you find the power in the Constitution that would not require the government to provide further process to such a U.S. citizen before using lethal force? Question#14: Can you explain to me how we give foreign born prisoners the very rights that we are denying our citizens? There are more questions to be asked and I look forward to seeing yours!!!
To..Nick""""
How do you suggest we go after the treasonous bastards that want to kill you ...send in the Seal team.. invade the country harboring the terrorists with boots on the ground we've tried that route before with disastrous results for the troops and innocent civilians ...this is 21rst century warfare you can't stop five guys getting on a plane with box cutters with a nuke ...you can't invade every country these terrorist are hiding in ...without enormous collateral damage...but if that's the way you'd rather go
the Israeli's have been conducting targeted assassinations for years now say what you want but they try to cut down on civilian casualties ..and have been pretty successful
This is all new warfare get out of the 18th century and come into the 21rst century cause that's where we are at today...
"As part of President's ongoing commitment to consult Congress..."
They actually think we believe the BS that this ever would have happened if Barry was not outed?
Well Barry's zombies believe but anyone with a brain knows otherwise about this transparent administration.
As someone who voted for Obama I'm disgusted by this
This frightening top secret memo,which the White memo is based on,and our "committed" President stonewalled Congress for two years,was used by the President to kill three Americans, one a child, in 2011. Really consider how much authority it gives our government against American, anywhere. What it strips away from each of us, and our loved ones. Even if you and I personally never have its persoanl consequences happen to us.
In that it allows U.S. citizens to be targeted and assassinate, without actually any evidence of imminent threat existing, nor intelligence existing that such individuals have even engaged in any activities or planning such in the past. Nor within what relative period of time they may even have possibly been thinking of doing such.
It also expands the definition of imminent, removing its usual definition, and by redefining the operation to national threat, eliminates the special clause which prohibits the executive branches ban on assassinating U.S. citizens.
The memo also states, efforts must first be made, to capture such citizens, and only as a last resort, should killing be considered. If the U.S. citizen is in another country, permission must be sought to enter and remove that person. But it is clear, in these three cases, no effort was made except to kill them by using drones. The sixteen year old was killed eating a meal at a cafe outside three weeks after his father was targeted and killed. The boy had come from the United States to visit his family.
Finally, while al-Qaida is mentioned in the White memo, so is the phrasing, other related groups.This means, it could be used on American citizens , in our own country. If you consider how often the term "terrorist suspect" is thrown out there by the media,to hype up stories.
Only because the White memo surfaced now, and Obama has been left looking embarrassed, with the public asking questions, has he been forced to finally give Congress what they have been demanding.Full access to not only those memos, but more insight into just what our President is doing behind the backs of Amricans, to Americans.Those deaths occurred in 2011.
The idea, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear, is so illogical. Just look at history, and how many innocent lives have been lost. trusting in the powers that be, to leave one alone. Power corrupts, and absolute power, corrupts absolutely.Just how does one get the most powerful office in the world to be accountable, when backed by, powerful resources,including verified Middle East countries?
i'm disgusted...with all the politicians letting corporate America enrich themselves and screwing our hole country up...sick of the bastards and their political correctness...
Sad thing is in the past week our first amendment rights have been attacked, our second amendment right is being eroded away and now this... Does anyone see a pattern here?
Actually windancer, the memo does not require that capture be attempted, only the the "informed" government official determine that capture is not feasible.
Is a Senate confirmation Hearing the only time they are allowed to know about anything going on ?
joemike40-
Under the provisions of the White memo, it does state an effort is to be made to take into custody an American who is considered to pose an imminent threat. If that person is in another country, permission is to be sought from that government if possible.
The problem with the wording, is that it doesn't define what that effort is exactly. So, technically, some officials could just discuss their options.Then send in a drone and kill the American. Still, without a single shred of evidence. Like that boy who was killed, who only wanted to visit his family. Death is listed as the last resort, not the first.
It still can be used against citizens here in the United States. Which is why it is so critical, to find out how the Executive branch has justified killing Americans, without any shred of evidence, they have done anything wrong.
And I am sure Obama will have plenty of pretexts. What will it take for Americans to final stand up to this dictator and stop him?
Come on, Obama has the most transparent administration in US history. What they know we know. If Congress doesn't know, it is only because they never read the memo. Wait, that was Clinton's excuse for failing to provide security to our embassy in Benghazi, so never mind.
To ..Nick""""
Seriously huh ...heed your own diatribe
Funny ...where were you constitutional specialists with the "we don't do torture " coming out of the government for years
I'm kind of hoping that the drone plan is delivered to Clowngress by another drone.
If an American has taken arms against the United States we should arrest them and put them on trail form treason. Those who voted for Obama do not want this
Yes, definitely....you should go in there, read them their rights, and make a citizen's arrest.
Let us know how that works out.
I don't even advocate arrest. I do, however, advocate some judicial process to determine guilt or innocence. No way this much power over the life of a US citizen should rest in the hands of one person. I do feel it was justified this time, but what about next time, and the time after? Are you always going to trust the person in the White House to do the right thing? Try to think ahead.
Be careful what you 'vote' for!
Texas Lady-- i understand your desire that an American citizen has a right to a fair trial.In a case like this i don't think there was any room for doubt.It is not worth risking lives by sending in a seal team or special forces to drag him out.
I think most of you are missing the point completely. Where in all this does it say this won't be done on our own soil? Who decides what a terrorist is? Everything we say on here is being stored, maybe some folks on here will be on a "list". Economic crash, which could easily happen the direction we're heading, gun grabs, DHS buying tens of thousands of rounds of ammo....don't think for a minute those Apache helicopters are doing "training exercises" for nothing in large metro areas. Wake up American's, no matter which party you voted for! This is something we're all in together, it's called survival.
Am wondering..and I'm serious...hypothetically , if you take he principles of the memo at face value and assume a rare and imminent need, what would be a scenario in which an American citizen in lets say, Kansas, couldn't be apprehended or captured but would necessarily have to be taken out by a drone? With ultimate question being would it be justified?
I will be waiting for the reaction of the Senate committee after reviewing the classified info. The President is doing the right thing by making it available. Should be interesting.
Everybody's' focussed on drones. The drone is not the issue. If he's found guilty by a court of law and sentenced to death then I don't care if you kill him with an electric chair or an atomic bomb--the issue is is being found guilty by the President and not by a court.
Whether a drone strike or a midnight raid on some compound in Pakistan, in the end we have to take the word of the Obama administration that what they claim happened actually did. No pictures, no remains, secret burial site, just Obama's word.
I voted for President Obama and I have no problem with taking out some one from the organization that attracted us on 9/11!
Possibly a scenario like the Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, TX. Or Ruby Ridge. Why risk agents' and LEOs' lives (or pay their salaries) when you can send a drone? And I'm not advocating this, I'm just saying that I could see the government using such a situation as a rationalization to justify the action.
I too voted for President Obama and I applaud him for using a drone to snuff some piece of scum who turned his back on his country. Probably saved several American ground troops from injury or death chasing him and his rag head buddies around some rock pile.
I'm not right or left, but I can't help but notice that liberal logic says waterboarding bad... blowing up people is much... much better.
Big gov ran by a small bama-o-rama. Our rights will soon be completely gone as soon as we let in more illegals. Yes they will vote for them how else do they plan on winning again. This next 4 years will be the end of America!!!
at least 11 million new voters given amnesty.
Time to move, then.
LOL move down south .there will be plenty of vacancies.
I'm not moving anywhere. This is my home. I sink or swim with my country.
What about the rights of people who are not Americans? Are Americans the only people on earth with rights?
So, Americans are important, and everyone else is crap. That seems to be the directive.
Americans have rights however, once they go to another country and start plotting against America, they lose those rights. Simple, isn't it ?.
Heath, The US constitution does not cover non US citizens. Only American citizens.
FC, I don't think you get the point. We are bombing "suspected" American terrorists in other countries. Do other countries just have to tolerate the US dropping bombs? What about civilians in these countries?
Of course it doesn't, but that doesn't mean we can drop bombs on other countries.
My problem is FC, who gets to determine they are plotting? You are really ok with giving one person the right to decide if a person is a threat? How will you ever know if that person uses this policy to take out a perceived rival or kills someone from a personal grudge if there is no answering for the action? Am I saying Obama would do this? No. But how do you know? And what about future presidents? The very possibility for misuse is reason enough to establish some oversight.
Some one asked where were all he conservatives when President Bush started his wire tapping escapades. I can tell you I voted for Bush the first time and he was the reason I voted for Obama in 2008. I felt Bush was acting like a cowboy and I didn’t like it. In 2012 I could bring my self to vote for Obama again because of his failed policies, his insatiable spending and lack of job creation in lieu of the health care debacle. But rest assured I made just as much noise during Bush's time in office. In this case it doesn’t matter to me who the President is; this is wrong. I am very concerned with Obama’s comfort level thumbing his nose at the Constitution if he doesn’t happen to agree with it. That has to stop by any means available. I would hope congress holds any President’s feet to the fire that displays the total disregard for OUR Constitution as Obama has.
Heathnius, according to the courts the Constitutional protections apply to anyone who is inside the US and to any US citizen anywhere in the world, they do not apply to noncitizens outside the US. If you want to change that you're welcome to hire lawyers for anybody whose rights you think have been violated and take the US government to court and see if your lawyers can convince the Supreme Court to change the law.
FC, there is nothing in the Constitution which says that the President gets to decide who does and does not have rights. You are really not seeing the issue. The issue is not killing the bastards, the issue is the President and not a court making the decision.
If they circumvent due process, what else will they circumvent?
Apparently our right to privacy already...
The Patriot Act.
Oh and the right to due process.
The New Defense Authorization Act.
People better wake up, and fast.
Anything the choose to...
circumvent due process you dont need to circumvent anything else
I would be surprised if this is the first time congress was briefed on something of this nature; but I'm sure they will act like as if they're nothing but appalled.
They knew about it. The document was provided to "selected members of congress" last year.
Everyone that saw it is traitorous scum!
Not only that. Can you trust Congress to keep National Interests secret.
The government is designed with a balance of power. When the President withholds important information such as this (justification for killing Americans) and frustrates an open dialogue, he is moving away from the ideals of this country and the rule of law. All of you that blindly support him, be careful what you wish for. It is amazing the individuals that are willing to give up everyone's rights.
Thats the point of the way it is done now. If someone is a terrorist, the citizenship does not matter. The policy was not meant to be used in the US. That should be clarified. Drones are not indiscriminate. Trying to detain these radicals, in the areas they like to hide is not worth the casualties that an extraction operation can inflict. drone + terrorist = dead terrorist.
Thank you.
Squrl,
Did you read the part that the says "suspected terrorist"? The US doesn't even need to have proof, just bomb away. Does that sound right?
To..jdm""""
Oh really "suspected terrorist"...the US doesn't need proof ....what
Amunaka,
I just gave them about enough proof they need to blow you up in a previous post. I hope that buzzing sound you hear is not a drone over your house.
Which part are you having trouble with? The US can just claim that the person is a "suspected terrorist".
To..jdm""""
Just claim ...how does that work
"I heard from a forum posting that Amunaka is a terrorist" - Obama
"boom" - Your House
-or-
"I want a NWO and to become the 'antichrist', I will kill all who oppose me!" - Obama
"I will never join the dark side and sell my soul" - You
"TERRORIST!" - Obama
"boom" - Your House
(The christian/conspiracy version) :/
Since where in the article does it say that you have to be in another country? It doesn't just if you are deemed a threat to the USA. In otherwords if I or any of you piss off obama all he has to do is call in a airstrike against you and then post your picture all over the news telling everyone that you are a terrorist and smearing your name.
The point is that no matter where it was "meant to be used", it can be changed easily by the same person who wrote the original memo. Once it is established that the President can act as judge and jury it is going to be very difficult to limit where he can so act. Suppose he decides that any Congressman who votes against him is an enemy of the US? Who's going to stop him from ordering them all killed?
To.Nick """
Silly one ....
I think it's great this thread starts with independent thinkers like Connor Sean Murray & Borderlands.
What's funny is the supposed LEFT , ACLU has fought attacks vs the 1st, 4th and 10th amendments for three decades.
The so called RIGHT , has fought for the Second Amendment.
Could the LEFT & RIGHT ever agree that we are a Constitutional Republic???
And that BOTH parties (sometimes in bipartisan fashion) have attacked the Bill of Rights over the past decades??
That there is no reason severe or revolting enough, to change our actual form of government??
Would be nice to see Americans come together, (for a change) to ensure their rights, in the years to come.
Scar,
I agree with most of what you said. However, I think Republicans and Democrats are essentially one in the same. Both parties ran up the debt, pursue horrible foreign and domestic policies, stripped our rights, and worked to export all of our manufacturing jobs in exchange for cheap Chinese goods. Americans need to wake up. People need to quit watch their reality TV and other useless junk they do with their lives. Democracy takes a lot of work from its citizens to maintain it. We need to become more vigilant. This is scary time for our republic based on recent laws that were passed/renewed (Patriot Act, NDAA, National Preparedness Act of 2012 and a few others). Our government is becoming corrupt. We as Americans have to bombard our representatives with emails, calls, and letters to let them know we are paying attention, and we won't be taking any more cr@p. If our politicians don't represent we the people, you the politician will be packing your bags.
Ever read Brave New World? Everyone should.
big brother -
I did too. My daughter and sons, however, did not. I think that if they did make them read any of them it would scare the living daylights out of them as they talk about things that are actually happening today.
I would say that they were prophetic.
I think if you "switch" to the enemy then you have given up your citizenship and I hope the military or someone else blows you a$$ away. And I am a veteran--a combat veteran I might add. Why does Congress need to know? They can't get anything right to begin with. They couldn't all get in the same room and play a good game of stick finger with each other.
Thank you
I guess you miss the issue, you know...INALIENABLE RIGHTS...Hard to have those when Obama orders a KILL isn't it.
WHY can't they be interrogated...heck, USE waterboarding...OH, WAIT, Obama is against that..LOL...
Hitler also thought everyone else was an enemy, was it ok for him to kill?
jdmb03, as I recall, when Germany lost the war we and the other allied nations didn't just go in and murder all the natzies without due process.
If that's what you think then get the Congress to change the law on citizenship and provide a procedure for such revocation to take place by due process of law.
If the President can decide that some person who the CIA tells him is a "terrorist" has no rights then he can decide the same about anybody, including you.
The issue is not the rights of terrorists, the issue is the President acting as judge and jury. If you fought for us to have a king then you fought on the wrong side.
At the end of the next four years will we have any rights left? Now we are finding out the real reason that Obama wants our guns. The american people should wake up and see where our country is heading. Americans have the right as well as the means to change our government.
Lets hope so Larry, lets hope so. Time will tell.
Borderlands,
I have that very thought about Waterboarding ..very interesting how they would think for 2sec,Americans would ever support this!!This is the very example of an out of control Administration,I wonder if this is one of the reasons all of Obama's first term people in his cabinet and other's have all but left,This is sick and wrong,what's to stop the Prez from taking out any person or group that disagrees with him? Why would his loyal followers care? They would And do believe anything he tells them,At least they sure don't seem to question him,Where is the Media blasting this from mountain tops !? Our President is taking it upon himself to be judge and Jury !! He okeyed The murdere of a 16 yr old American,and his loyal lap dogs say its the kids Fathers fault for his terrorist activity s,Oh okey so lets say your Mom robs a bank,do we punish her kids? The logic of this Administration seems to be if your not with us your against us,And you will be delt with...yep noooo problem here America keep your eyes squeezed tight and humm real loud,It isn't really happening,we're all talking crazy....
From the tone of these boards, I think a lot of the Obama supporters on the board would cheer if Obama sent a drone to kill people like Rush Limbaugh and the people at Fox.
I've already came across several folks in here that advocated just that darciesdaddy.
Some liberals are the exact disgusting breed of folks they accuse others of being. They are no different from far FAR right extremists that would wish the same.
Personally I think we should take both sides of the extreme and ship them all off to the DPRK.
The White House will now brief members of Congress on the legal justifications for drone strikes against U.S. citizens, an administration official as of Wednesday night has said?
Really?
I thought this was a given?
I guess they got too much flack from trying too do this under the radar.
Reversing its course?
Why don't they reverse the f---king whole idea?
What a crock of communist sh-it this legislation is.
It's not even legislation, it is a policy memo. In other words, the President and his administration does what they please and throw the Constition in the trash bin.
Obama's strategy..."Dead Men Tell No Tales."
Same guy that was AGAINST Waterboarding, calling it something US shouldn't be doing, is "OK" with Killing them, and AVOIDING the issue.
What a joke this is becoming....Per Obama...I'm against Interrogation via waterboarding...the SAME technique that led to Osama Bin Laden...But I'm OK with MURDERING US Citizens if I "think" they have done something wrong. The Obama WAY,
I think the president should forget about banning guns and start banning these weaponized f---king drones that he now claims are allowed to fire on Americans.
Is this guy for FN real?
I think we should do a background check on his mentality before he starts giving orders too shoot people just because he thinks they may be a threat.
This government can call Americans nuts thus taking away there rights, but the people cannot do the same too those who make such claims.
It is a one way street the way I see it, and they are the only ones driving.
What a BS scam this paper is.
To bad they didn't get the armed drones out earlier....and I'm sorry but an operation to take out terrorists where they be to minimize collateral damage is still a better idea than invading a whole country with boots on the ground...
Official: White House Slow to OK Drones to Kill Bin Laden
June 25, 2003
FoxNews
WASHINGTON — When President Bush took office in January 2001, the White House was told that Predator drones (search) had recently spotted Usama bin Laden as many as three times and officials were urged to arm the unmanned planes with missiles to kill the Al Qaeda (search) leader. But the administration failed to get drones back into the Afghan skies until after the Sept. 11 attacks later that year, current and former U.S. officials say.
Top administration officials discussed the mission to kill bin Laden as late as one week before the suicide attacks on New York and Washington, but they had not yet resolved a debate over whether the CIA or Pentagon should operate the armed Predators and whether the missiles would be sufficiently lethal, officials told The Associated Press.
In the month before that meeting, the Pentagon and CIA successfully tested an armed Predator on at least three occasions -- including once when it destroyed a mock-up home resembling an Afghan structure bin Laden supposedly used, the officials said.
The disappearance in 2001 of U.S. Predators from the skies over Afghanistan is discussed in classified sections of Congress' report into pre-Sept. 11 intelligence failures and is expected to be examined by an independent commission appointed by the president and Congress, officials said.
After the Sept. 11 attacks, the CIA put the armed drones into the sky within days -- and they soon played an important role in one of the early successes of the war on terror.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,90318,00.html
“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
― Benjamin Franklin
The point your missing is that according to the Administrations policy the criteria for killing an american is as follows:
1. Being "suspected" of terrorist activity.
2. Being associated with someone who is "suspected" of terrorist activity.
What is NOT required:
1. Evidence of terrorist activity.
2. Intelligence indicating terrorist activity.
3. Legal Justification.
4. Oversight.
5. Legal Review.
Now, as someone who generally supported the administration, I can honestly say this is obscene... if the ends justify the means, then what makes us different from those who seek to kill us... If we allow our government to become indiscriminate killers, then we have lost.....
Just sayin!
Oh I'm sure there are some legal issues about using these drones to kill US citizens abroad... I'm a tad more concerned about them using them against citizens here at home.
I suppose at some point that our esteemed and much trusted Congress shall be briefed about that... You know, like they were briefed about George's first bailout..ah yes...the one where he needed (what was then) an absurd amount of money.. $3/4 trillion..
...on condition nobody know what he did with the money.
Good ol' Congress..always looking after their constituents with such integrity and all. I feel so much better just knowing they're on the job.
Yearnie...Bush hasn't been in office for some 5 years. I could educate you on some things, including the Congressional makeup, but why waste my breath.
Congress includes Republicans and Democrats, both are corrupt, it's compounded with the Panderer and Chief being more corrupt than either of those.
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry! Panderer and Chief? Do you mean Panderer-in-Chief. That position does not exist. Also, notice, if you are referring to the President of the United, are you aware of the article this forum is related to? I think this is sufficient evidence to show he is not a pander and chief. Secondly, Supply verifiable evidence he is "corrupt". This means evidence you can take to the corrupt congress to start impeachment proceedings. I'll wait. As expected, you can't do anything but regurgitate lies and more lies.
Drones aren't the issue. I don't see any legal or moral difference between execution by electrocution, lethal injection, hanging, firing squad, or drone attack.
The issue is who decides to perform the execution. If instead of drones, the President was killing these people by lethal injection or by electrocution I think you would see a lot more people screaming about it.
The President cannot be allowed to act as judge and jury. Murder of a US citizen clearly qualifies as "high crimes and misdemeanors" and he should be impeached over this and tried and if found guilty put in Federal prison.
Bush never took steps near this extreme against American citizens. If he would of, the same people that are excusing Obama would have been calling for his head on the impeachment table. Because this is Obama, it is OK.
While I am not sure if I disagree with drone killings in the heat of war, I do have concerns with the broad brush that this justification has been written with and the hypocrisy of those that wrote it and those that support who wrote it.
I want to hear a lib that supports this say they would if it came from the Bush admin.
Won't be long now before China and Russia get the updates.
US Congress should demand impeachment immediately of Hussein. Sending drones on American citizens that He or his staff deems a terrorist of the US and or a threat to US can be Hammered by drones. Hussein is acting as judge jury and hangman. The news media and the libs in Washington government already accuse anti abortionist, law abiding gun owners, and any one that is a true patriot of the US a terrorist. Will we be next, going down a slippery slope, this BS must be stopped ASAP!!!!
What? Did you edit, or read what you wrote. Your teachers must be really ashamed of the dribble you write. I bet you want to abolish the Department of Education. Reread your statement. Edit it, and turn the nonsense into something intelligent.
big John your still alive? Why!! Your an American and take up arms against America, your trial is with our military and DRONES are a part of that Military. Dig a hole!! cuz that building is HISTORY!!
oboe -
What's the matter? You can't refute what he says with logic to defend your idol, so you use an ad hominem attack on the messenger?
It is truly pitiable that Obama's believers can't even come up with a rational refutation of the arguement...
I guess that's what a liberal education is all about these days.
John
This is not an impeachable offense. I guess you were OK with Bush and Cheney shredding the Constitution but killing an American traitor in his hiding place. You need to get your head straight John. I guess you want to sacrifice troops to go try to capture this traitor. I bet the troops couldn't thank you enough. I'd rather ram a missile down his throat.
All this false rage is amusing. You just want to find another excuse to hate President Obama. Sorry, go fish John. Take your hatred and hit the road.
Most of America agrees with the President. Once again the baggers and cons are on the wrong side of history.
Classified? Nothing remains classified in the US.
Drone strikes on American citizens..... brought to you by the people who are outraged by water being poured over terrorist's faces and terrorist's phone calls being tapped.
The height of liberal hypocracy.
Obama's not a liberal.
David, put the BONG down. Obama IS and always has been a LIB.
OH, also, idiot response below...yeah, bright BOY, suggest killing someone you don't like. IDIOT.
Oh, sorry.
I mis-spoke, he's a flaming Communist tyrant.
And the right as always never right about anything ...it's never ending they wonder why their called brainwashed sheeple ...keep tuning into fox
Not FOX..... YouTube.
Obama's words...... not FOX's.
Shamu, you are comical. Well just a joke actually...
To..champ.""""
No .. " flaming Communist tyrant."
fox
Thank you for your opinion, Amunaka.
I don't watch FOX, but you can think what you like.
While you're busy tirelessly supporting Obama and justifying his treason, keep in mind, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and every other historical despot had great support of at least 1/2 of the citizenry.
FORWARD! HOPE & CHANGE! FUNDAMENTAL TRANSFORMATION!..... & sh1t like that!! WHOO HOO!
To champ"
Where on earth do you think your talking points come from anyway
More right wing blogesphere nonsense that makes stuff up then feeds on and off each other creating an echo chamber of mis-disinformation outrageous and outlandish fake conspiracy theories and rumors and just out and out bold faced lies..they have never been right about anything .....ever
the right wing blogs connected to the drudge bone ..the drudge bones connected to the rush bone ..the rush bones connected to the fox bone ...the fox bones connected to the clueless echo chamber's bone