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Published at 4:49 a.m. ET: LOS ANGELES -- Detectives are looking for a former LAPD officer, apparently disgruntled over his termination from the force, in connection with the double murder of a newly engaged couple last weekend, officials said Wednesday.
Irvine Police Chief David Maggard said that Christopher Jordan Dorner implicated himself in a "multi-page manifesto" that was published online but has since been taken down. A source inside LAPD gave NBC4 the manifesto, which is about 11,300 words long and appears to lay out a plan for targeting those involved in his firing.
In the manifesto -- addressed to "America" and titled "Last Resort" -- Dorner writes that the "horrendous murders" are "a necessary evil."
"I know I will be villified (sic) by the LAPD and the media," he writes. "Unfortunately, this is a necessary evil that I do not enjoy but must partake and complete for substantial change to occur within the LAPD and reclaim my name."
Dorner goes on to say, "There will be an element of surprise where you work, live, eat, and sleep."
Authorities asked for the public's help in finding Dorner, whose last known address is 4931 Sharon Dr. in La Palma. Dorner is described as 6 feet tall, about 270 pounds with black hair and brown eyes.
He may be driving a blue 2005 Nissan Titan pickup truck with California license plate 7X03191, and is "likely armed and dangerous," Maggard said.
'Stay inside'
A resident in the La Palma neighborhood where Doran lived told NBC4 that police advised her to "stay inside or leave the neighborhood." Sgt. Paul Morales with La Palma police said the agency is beefing up patrols in the area.
Dorner was on the force until 2009 and was a reservist in the U.S. Navy, according to Maggard.
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In a statement released late Wednesday, LAPD said it is "implementing all measures possible" to protect the department's personnel and their families, some of whom were threatened in Doran's manifesto. LAPD said Dorner was was employed as a police officer from Feb. 7, 2002, until Sept. 4, 2008.
Monica Quan, 28, and her fiancé, Keith Lawrence, 27, were fatally shot Sunday while sitting in their car on the top level of a parking structure in the 2100 block of Scholarship Drive, according to Irvine police.
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Quan's father was the first Asian-American to become an LAPD captain, and also worked on the Asian Gang Task Force.
In his manifesto, Dorner repeatedly refers to a Randy Quan as being involved in his firing.
"I never had the opportunity to have a family of my own, I'm terminating yours. Quan, ..., and BOR members Look your wives/husbands and surviving children directly in the face and tell them the truth as to why your children are dead," the manifesto read, in part.
Quan and Lawrence died from multiple gunshot wounds, according to autopsy results released Wednesday. Before the release of the autopsies, it was not reported that the victims were each shot multiple times.
The recently engaged couple was last seen in Winnetka at a Super Bowl party, and lived in the apartment complex attached to the parking garage. The couple left the party about 7 p.m. and were found slumped over in their car at about 9 p.m.
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Officials would not say where on their bodies the pair were hit.
Monica Quan worked for two years as assistant basketball coach at Cal State Fullerton. Her team will observe a moment of silence Saturday when CSU Fullerton is set to take on UC Riverside.
Dorner's identification and the autopsy results come a day after family and friends pleaded for the public's help in finding whoever is responsible for the fatal shootings.
Anyone with information can call Irvine Police at 949-724-7192. Police said if anyone sees Dorner, they should not approach him and immediately call 911.
NBC4 staffers Nyree Arabian and Vikki Vargas contributed to this report.
Leave a Comment:
And they can't take him down soon enough. This guy is sick sick sick as well as dangerous. To murder that beautiful young couple in cold blood over a beef with the girl's father - real or imagined - too terrible to comprehend. Hope that he cannot carry out any more of his twisted evil.
GM Chef!
There are some really sick people out there, no matter the profession. Hopefully, LAPD sets a good trap and eliminates this POS Dorner quickly.
Most cops are goons hiding behind a badge, they don't take on the job because they want to do good,they do it because of the power it gives them. This guy is scum like most of his brother officers
GM jack!!! Agreed. It's heartbreaking to think those two beautiful kids are no longer here. Just want this to be over quickly without any more blood shed.
Have to wonder if this guy had problems for a long time and he managed to hide what ever was ailing him or is this a new onset of something that made him snap??? He's sick dangerous crazy to commit such a heinous crime with threats following this.
No he's not. He spoke the truth.
The only reason this is news is because in this case the psycho turned on his brothers instead of the public.
Sad to say Joe is right and "Bow to me" is the @!$%# and a filthy @!$%# at that
Swat sniper one - do you have a solution???
Wonder how many more there are like that
just another nut job with a gun in the USA......business as usual............SMDH!!!
First take him out. What he did is horrible. Hunt him down and kill him. No need for a trial as he confessed to the whole thing and made threats to others.
Next we need a completely independent investigation of the LAPD and I mean independent. I read his whole manifesto and it seems he tried to do the right thing and he was screwed for it. Not trying to condone what he did but I can understand he was driven to the edge and snapped. If what he wrote is true then the whole LAPD needs an overhaul from the top down. He named good cops and bad cops alike. He put it all out there for all to see. Not to have a completely independent (no politicians or cops) investigation into his claims would be criminal.
Go to this link to read the entire unedited manifesto.
http://content.clearchannel.com/cc-common/mlib/616/02/616_1360213161.pdf
Sitting-Hmmmm........ the plot thickens. Good morning usual subjects and to one and all.
GM Stonepipe and Sitting on a Fence
Quite an intersting document by Dorner. I hope no innocents are harmed.
Mornin' Jax, Stonepipe...
This would be where I would be on the outlook through my windows with "my" guns prepared for anything however, I doubt if I lived in his neighborhood that he would even be stupid enough to return to it.
This is like the worst kind of situation where you have a highly trained ex-police officer/military man gone bad. His experience with all the ins and outs makes him "extremely" dangerous to anyone & everyone within reach of his twisted mind.
Lets hope that considering he was deranged enough to do what he did that he is also stupid enough to make mistakes and get caught soon. With his background, if and when they catch him, he will not be taken alive. That said, I hope and pray he doesn't take anyone else with him.
He claims it's all about his name, well he certainly is taking care of that. His name will forever be associated with psychopathic murderer.
GM Creek and Jack and Chef- don't have time to read the manifesto have to run, have a great day! But will be interesting to read about what brought about his thought process. Having a heat wave here, high 30's and sweating it out. Jack, don't forget the sunscreen unfortunate it is cloudy here.
I read it......dude sounds like a raving lunatic in my opinion!!!
"Dorner writes that the 'horrendous murders' are 'a necessary evil.' "There will be an element of surprise where you work, live, eat, and sleep." It's just like from a movie or video game. Where does anyone get the idea of a "necessary" evil?
I am 64 and have seen a great deal in these years. I am very concerned about the degrading of our humanity over the last 20 years in particular. If something is not done soon to re shape our focus on helping one another rather than killing others, we are in for some real troubled waters. I am most concerned for the kids during this period that grow up without close parental supervision as a result of divorce, drinking/drugs in the family. They spend so much time on computer games that depict killing and then they restart the game everyone pops up alive again. I think some of these kids think that is what happens in the real world. SSDD!
Another huge win for the NRA and gun nuts everywhere. WTG NRA. More guns for L.A. is the indication. This guy was more then a law abiding citizen he was a cop. With a gun. Not a car, nor a baseball bat nor any other thing to deflect from the fact guns kill people.
If you cannot see that guns make violent people more effective there is no hope for you.
Another one of LA finest...
Whenever I read something like Joe's comment, I only assume he has some "ball" envy. Pretty easy to criticize and talk tough hiding behind a computer keyboard.
While the man certainly sounds very upset, I can't help but wonder about his words. After reading his 'manifesto', I'm curious to see if any of the incidents he mentioned will in fact be investigated by the fourth estate. I certainly don't condone his actions, and think he is causing his reputation more harm. But this was an accomplished individual, detailed enough to provide names & incidents, not a three time loser; calling him simply 'disgruntled' could very well be glossing over his revelations. While I believe he should not be allowed to harm anyone else, I also believe the incidents mentioned should be investigated thoroughly, and if they are revealed to reflect his accounts accurately, the officials mentioned should be prosecuted fully. Whether he's lying, deluded or telling the truth, there is no salvation for him, and it appears he knows & accepts this. If he is telling the truth, one has to wonder what thoughts are going through the minds of those police officials, as well as what they may be doing to cover their asses. I'm especially interested in the connections he mentioned regarding Sgt. Theresa Evans and the associations claimed to exist between her and members of the LAPD BOR.
LL Cool J better stay inside. He's likely to be mistaken for this monster.
even if what he wrote was accurate he loses ALL credibility by murdering the people he says have done him wrong.....he has obviously lost his mind and is hell bent on revenge with no regard for the consequences.....words are hurtful and can make u angry but to choke someone is way over the top in my opinion....sounds like had mental health issues in the past!!!
sittingonafence
Thanks for the link.
His manifesto seems credible to me, and unfortunately isn't in the least bit surprising. He reported a cop for excessive force and got fired for it. Pretty standard in most police departments I'm sure.
From the manifesto:
"when other recruits sang nazi hitler youth songs about burning Jewish ghettos in WWII Germany where his father was a survivor of a concentration camp"
Unreal.
You don't consider the two victims to be innocent?
gm jack, CD, stonepipe, chefaz..
Sad story to start the day. What the heck was the trigger after waiting four years from being fired?
CD, you are right... this guy won't be taken alive. It wil get messy.
Sincere condolences to the family and friends of this couple.
Okay, I've read enough of his Manifesto to see it looks like this month he received word that he has lost his Reserve status in the Navy, along with his Security Clearance, both of which he was so proud, because of the determination of the LAPD Board that he lied about a fellow officer using excessive force, the incident which resulted in his firing.
Seems he has been fighting this thing since 2009.
He says the whole thing even destroyed his relationship with his mother.
But he even goes back to incidents that happened in grade school. He had a very sharply defined idea of right and wrong, with no way to express his frustration and anger when wrong was done. He was nitro waiting to explode... someone needs to review the psychological profile test for law enforcement personnel.
Boy! After seeing tons of pictures of the ten thousand cops armed to the teeth with "assault" weapons at ready; in hand; prepared to DEFEND THEMSELVES, it brought to mind Joe Biden's comment that us common folk just need the ol' double barreled shotgun to protect our families and businesses! God! I'll bet those cops sure are glad they have those God awful assault weapons to protect themselves with and of course I did notice those evil 30 round unnecessary magazines! What the Hell, they might just need a couple of extra unneeded rounds to drop that ( ONE ) man mountain murdering ex-cop!
..........isn't that how Police States start their existence? Out-gun the local populace?
if he is guilty hope he never sees the inside of a courtroom
I doubt he plans on making it to a courtroom
We need to restrict access to guns. Keep your shotguns and hunting rifles and lets ban semi-automatic weapons and handguns. This guy has an arsenal.
Instead of trying to take away the Constitutional Rights of over 300 million law-abiding American citizens, why don't you just take your lithium.
Ban handguns.
Good morning, takenaka.
I'm not really a troll. I have children living in the USA and I think it is not a safe place.
takenaka, no one has said anything like that today. I know you've been seriously abused on some of the articles and that's wrong. I may not agree with your stance but you have every right to your opinion.
Just curious though, if you don't mind...you're OK with the big boy toys but not the handguns...would you please explain???
GM Takenaka
I respect your opinion and the right to say it. As of late, you have been also including research items to support your statements and I applause that! Even though I have a different belief about responsible gun ownership, I can see your thought process with you regarding why you want to ban handguns etc. Have a great day.
Vern, GM didn't write anything about taking away our constitutional rights. What he wrote is what I would write, ban high-capacity magazines and weapns like AR-15's and High Capacity Glocks and so on, unless you can prove to a judge or someone impartial that you need it. Handguns fall under the 2nd but how many do you need, more than two or three? Unless you happen to be a collector or want to sell them, or have them stolen and sold to street gangs, do y9ou really want more or need more?
Shotguns and rifles are legitimate hunting weapons. No one suggests you give them up.
I don't know where anyone gets the idea that their 2nd rights are being stepped on or taken away. The wording is about a 'well regulated militia' not some bozo who has a bunch of loaded weapons in a house or worse yet, trailer trash with them, and a house full of kids.
Get a life. Know what I mean Vern?
Ban Gun Free Zones.
Like courtrooms
Jackie, you ask why does anyone need more than two or three handguns? Why different applications of course. I use a two pound hammer for somethings, a framing hammer for others and a claw for light duty. The same can be said for handguns, and besides, I have two hands. :)
Chefaz, I agree that handguns should be banned too. They are easily concealed and designed for killing humans at close range.
You do not even live in our country so worry about your own country thanks.
Just thought you might appreciate some advice from one the most successful, humane, and admired countries in the world.
Once again, blaming the guns. Much like blaming the car when a drunk driver runs down a pedestrian. Would you feel any better if the victims were all run over by big rigs? Or pushed out of 5th floor windows? How about poisoned?
As for police department corruption, yes, I've seen it in action myself, like the local cop selling confiscated drugs to school children. The dept in one town I lived in was so corrupt, that the state police came in and cleaned house. Not that the state guys were much better...
gm takenaka, and all the usual suspects
Takenaka, I am very pleased to see you opening up and engaging in dialogue about the gun control issue, instead of just issuing blanket statements. I also congratulate you for (1) being consistent in your views, and (2) not attacking on a personal level those who disagree with you. Since our views are polar opposites, I invite you to a one-on-one discussion of our positions.
I guess there's a reason why it's called "The Bill of Rights" instead of "The Bill of Needs."
oh please that argument again....cars aren't made to kill people....drivers aren't getting into their cars with the intent to kill....SHEESH....seriously it holds no water!!!
Jackie,
What is banning weapons like the AR-15 or high capacity magazines going to do? Weapons like the AR-15 are used to kill less than a 100 people a year. What do you consider high capcity? My standard Glock 22 comes with three 15 round mags. On the other hand I have a 10 round mag for my 1911 which is considered high capacity because standard load is 7 rounds. Besides, bans don't apply to police officers, the military, or govt officials. Put that on top of Obama's recently released memos detailing why they think they can kill American citizens without notice or trial, and you have something that's starting to resemble Germany in the 1930's.
You mention militia as part of the 2nd Amendment, but you have to notice that there is a comma in that sentence making it two separate statements. And yes, every state does have civilian militias. Google your state and you will see which regiment you bleong to. Yes, you belong to a militia. You are expected to defend this country and your state from enemies both foreign and domestic. You are expected to take up arms against anyone that threatens our freedoms.
Situations like this is why police departments should not be lowering their hiring standards in order to satisfy "diversity" goals.
This should have never happened.
Wow, racist much? Who said they lowered standards? Where does it say that? Vern you are an idiot. The guy isn't stupid, he is pissed off.
I suppose, "non diversified" meaning White cops have met and exceeded whatever standard is necessary for employment and none of them ever became thugs, over-reaching, power abusers, and killers. Your post has just a bit of racist taint to it.
Does he seem like somebody that should have been hired by a police department?
No, of course not.
So why was he hired in the first place?
The answer is most likely, "diversity" goals.
What are you talking about Vern, the Guy was hired in 2002--so lets just substitute White Cop thug, you are a racist.
Dude was clearly former military based on the pictures - not sure how hiring former services members is "lowering standards."
Rather, cops should be subjected to regular psychological evaluations (or at least ones that are more rigorous than the ones they may currently receive).
What are the criteria for hiring a cop? Seems they don't have much to do with psychology. I've heard that convicted felons can be reformed and become police. That seems strange to me.
It was obvious there was a motive here from the start, even though the authorities said there wasn't. Someone doesn't do this type of killing without one.
What are the odds he owns an AR-15 or some other type of assault rifle? 100%, yeah I thought so too.
What are the odds he voted for Barack Hussein? 100%, yeah I thought so too.
Shut up Vern, what does the President have to do with a guy killing a couple out of revenge, oh by the way, dunce Quan is an Asian name, so the diversified cop got another diversified cop's daughter. Something very wrong about you and your overt hatred and racism.
The DemoKKKrat party IS the party of racism.
It should come as no surprise that yet another violent deranged DemoKKKrat murdered a minority couple.
...or did you forget, skyparrot, that it was the REPUBLICANS who freed the blacks from their DemoKKKrat slave owners.
Yeah, and the the racists and bigots jumped to the Republicans along with George Wallace and his water cannons and dogs--Lincoln would be so proud to be called a Republican today, now wouldn't he. What a crock, can't stand the Civil rights Act of 1964 can you?
ROFL
I'm not even appalled by such ignorance anymore. But here's a hint: Lincoln had an agenda and it had nothing to do with the plight of slaves. It was a vote grab by the Republican Party you love so much. It nearly destroyed our country and caused a great deal of misery for many folks—blacks and whites. Lincoln was a POS.
But I've given up on uneducated people realizing that. Just as they are incapable of realizing there is no Republican vs. Democrat Parties. There is an elite who keep that illusion alive so Americans will not unite against a government that is really a police state.
Think for yourself instead of looking for a label to stick on your forehead. This isn't a sports event.
Republican President Abraham Lincoln was assassinated by DemoKKKrat John Wilkes Booth, in retaliation for the Republicans freeing the blacks from their DemoKKKrat slave owners.
Republican civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated by DemoKKKrat James Earl Ray, for Dr. King standing up for the rights of black Americans.
DemoKKKrat John Hinkley Jr. attempted to assassinate Republican President Ronald Reagan, who led the Republicans to create the MLK holiday.
And yet the DemoKKKrats have still managed to fool the majority of blacks into voting for them, by using a half-black presidential candidate as a front man.
The Ku Klux Klan has always served as the militant arm of the DemoKKKrat party, all the way back to DemoKKKrat Grand Wizard Nathan Bedford Forrest.
And although the DemoKKKrats will try to play it off, this ain't exactly ancient history either- DemoKKKrat Senator Robert Byrd served in office for over 60 years, never losing an election. The DemoKKKrats would STILL be voting his Klan butt back into office, but he died of old age recently (at the age of 92), still in office.
Look it up.
Vern, before I hit the ignore button on you, I hit the total jackass and complete idiot buttons. You're totally racist, have no sense of anything real and shold probably get on some type of medication.
I do know that you should loosen you tinfoil hat, fly over to Fools News, and spout your bullcrap there.
Have a nice life, that is if you possibly can with all your hate.
Vern,John Hinkley Jr. is a millionaire republican. M.L.King was a democrat. Most of what you post is not true.
Vern, the GOP of 100+ years ago bears absolutely NO resemblese to the total stupidity and ignorance of the GOP today, just as the Democratic party bears no resemblence of the party of 100+ years ago. They have been flipped.
This man WAS a US Navy Reservist. Because he was black you indicate that he should have NEVER been hired as a police officer. Why? The vast majority of these kinds of killings (dealing with workplace issues) are indicative of WHITE, not black. Do your homework. Or do you even know how?
I would estimate te odds are about the same that your head is shoved so far up your a*s you cant see daylight.
What are the odds that a murder is committed with any kind of rifle? 25 in 1,000.
Another gun nut convinced by the NRA that he needs to take back "his" America.
My condolences to the surviving families of the victims.
What a waste.
Another liberal convinced by the DemoKKKrat party that he needs to "change" America.
My condolences to the surviving families of the victims.
What a waste.
bow2me, from everything I've read you would or probably want everyone to bow to you. Why not change your moniker to bozoisme?
Nothing you've written on anything I've read where you post is intelligent or worded with a sense of sentence structure, knowing when to break for a paragraph, or an indication you made it past second grade spelling.
Please make your statements mean something, add something to the thread. I really want to know what people think, not what they want me to think.
Have I missed something here, the story as written is making very little sense, in one para. it states he was terminated in 2008, in another says 2009, and the couple were killed last week and he was terminated in connection with the slaying--which is it? Terminated last week or in 2009, 2008? Or has he been brooding about his termination in 2008-2009 all these years and decided to retaliate last weekend? If he had been terminated for whatever reason in 2008-2009 and decided to act 4-5 years later, there is some very serious mental issues. Guarantee nobody saw this coming at this late date--so very sorry for the families of the victims.
Bet he wasn't considered crazy enough, or committed any crime to warrant taking his gun (s) away from him, just another "law abiding and responsible" gun owner gone amok. How about monthly background checks, heck make it weekly.
Seems to me, the intent of the article was to get the information about him out there to the public in an effort to find this guy. I hope they do. I doubt he'll get his day in court, however.
He's confessed to the crimes in his little "manifesto" along with additional threats. Piss on him. Ms. Quan and Mr. Lawrence will never get their day in court. This article that appeared in the sports section features a photo of the them.
http://www.foxsportswest.com/02/06/13/Christopher-dorner-named-suspect-in-coach-slaying/msn_landing.html?blockID=860225&feedID=3707
This guy sounds like a total nut-job. I wonder how he ever was allowed to join the police department in the first place. Don't they do any sort of background and psychological profiling of police candidates any more?
"Diversity" goals.
This is the cost of hiring people for reasons other than their ability to do the job.
The Psych tests only serve to prove that the guy would make a good cop or a good criminal, because, if they are in the "Norm", all Psychiatrists and Psychologist agree that the personalities of cops and criminals are almost identical. This is not neccesarily a bad thing, yet, true. So, a Psych evaluation isn't of much use in many cases at all.
Buster, just because someone goes off the deep end now doesn't mean he had problems that showed themselves several years ago when he was hired.
Vern, and you know he wasn't a good officer when he first started because.....?
So now, if you fire someone, your children are targets? I am heart-broken for the victims, especially the father whose daughter was murdered, as I am inclined to think he had cause to fire this thug in the first place.
Sick fellow - going to die - Lord don't let him take any more victims before he does...
This is the kind of person as to why I need appropriate firearms in my home to protect my family.
Ah!!! sweet revenge, this is real life folks, if you F with someones lively hood, spouse and children beware of the ramifications. We are dealing with a very big pissed off man with weapons.
Cops aren't much different than anyone else. In any profession, there is going to be that 1% of nutcases. You cannot indict policemen nor the LAPD for the actions of a few individuals. That's life. Get over it.
The politicians and the media sure don't have a problem with painting all gun owners with one brush.
Hope fully they don't mistake him for Duane the rock Johnston when they come for his head!!!
If we'd make Congressmen and Senators take a Psych evaluation and a Drug Test, we'd lose half. It's not the profession that matters.
Guess this story won't be around too long....doesn't fit or help the agenda...
"Only the police and military should have guns"....nope,he was in both
'Univeral background checks...nope,being a cop...no problem there
Bat$hit crazy....maybe ,but he apparently passed the police exams
I'll bet he got them through the "gun show loophole"....no ,he probably used his police department discount...
bottom line,like honest Joe Biden said....no laws will stop this stufff...so why in the he11 are they trying to disarm the citizenry?....and don't be a weasel and say they are not.
Anyone can go off the deep end at anytime. 14 year old, former cop, priest, 84 year old that has had it with life. There could be a thousand different reasons why someone would kill someone. Hatred, bigotry, insanity, religious nut-case or just because they can. It's PEOPLE, not guns! You can not tell who will or who will not use a weapon for criminal activities. It could be the guy next door, Postal Worker, or anyone you know that you would think (He was such a nice guy! You always hear that about some murderers by people they knew). Criminals and gang members already have guns or can get them in a heart beat no matter what the laws. Sure, have a better or longer background check but it is not going to solve what the real problems are with crime because it's ALL about PEOPLE, period!
joe, from what I read he shot them on the top floor of a parking deck that was someone in the LA area. Do you and your family live on the top floor of a parking deck?
Keep your handguns in your home. That's rational and well reasoned. But keep clips away from the weapon and have it locked away if you have children.
I guess, no know, your post is pretty good but you have your information slightly wrong. Just please, if you do have weapons in your home, keep them and your family safe.
And yes, this extreme liberal wants the 2nd Ammendment kept safe. I just can't seem to read anywhere in the Constitution where it says I or you or anyone has a right to a weapon that can be turned into an automatic weapon in a hurry, or needs a high capacity magazine with more rounds than the entire military.
jackie, I don't know of any firearm that can be changed over to an automatic weapon "in a hurry". When was the last time a shooting involved an automatic or machinegun? I can't think of any.
I don't know what your talking about regarding having magazines that are bigger then the military. I can think of one shooting that involved a 100 round drum, which malfunctioned as they often do. They are considered a novelty item that if they work once in awhile your lucky.
The right to keep and bear arms, and a militia are what it says, the militia and the people should be able to have at their call, any weapon that our forefather thought could be used against them in times of tyranny.
The Musket was equal to the musket when it was written, however today a weapon ta=hat can match bullet for bullet shoud be available to the populous. I am not saying rocket launchers and fully automatic weapons, but caliber adn the ability to throw semi auto fire down range to meet the mor superior firepower than could, I didnt say will, be used against them.
The Militia in a state is the National Guard, they have become the States Militia, the only problem with that, is they are sworn to uphold;ld the Federal Govt. First, thus could be used against thee massed in times of turmoil. They are not a true Militia, the founding fathers, said in fact, that a militia is necessary, but the populous armed is also a necessity to keep powers in check. Even the State National Guard, who would not be working for the State if bad things happened.
So it does say a well regulated militia, and the peoples right to bear arms.
Should the populous only be able to own hunting arms and sporting arms, that would be no match for a well regulated FEDERAL MILITIA used to suppress the free will of the people?
In the Boston papers, the Hamilton notes, Jefferson and many other notes expressing their thoughts on the 2nd amendment, ALL representatives, stated it was their intent to not only allow the State to protect itself when Federal Troops were not available, or were being used to suppress the will of the State and its People,but it was also their intent to include a populous armed as a way of checks and balance form abuse of a Militia, or Continental Army.
They had seen the British Troops abuse the law, they had seen the Tory's fight to uphold lawsuit were unjust as well working as privileged armed private persons loyal to the Crown.
So yes the Founding fathers did not say we should have a specific type of weapon, only that we should be comparable in our ability to fight oppression should the time comes. All of our rights teeter on our right to bear arms as a free people. Give a power hungry and scared governing body the upper hand and they will use it.
jackie - guns to gun owners (real gun owner) are like shoes to Imelda Marcos
. To say how many guns do you need, well there are hundreds of sizes, stlye's and color variations. So that's like asking someone who enjoys a hobby why he/she needs another whatever.
There's a guy that I work with, who after being told numerous times we don't go out and blow through a thousand rounds every weekend or load the mag/clip and empty it as quick as we can. It just not what the majority of gun owners do, have we? yeah maybe once in 20 years.
I think what infuriates most reasonable gun owners, is thinking that we're all irresponsible, guns are the root of all evil and certain ones need to be banned. One well placed bullet will kill, any gun can kill in the right hands. The list the politicians come up with are largely based on a visual, Feinstien has a gun on her list that is produced in at least 4 different arrangements but only 1 is on the list. That's irresponsible! Making America think they're able to protect you by some ban. Did you know the big New York gun rules recently passed, gun owners can have high cap mags a year to sell to someone out of state? But then it's for responsible gun owners to give them up, the illegal/nutty people will still have them. Who's going to go door to door to check...NOBODY.
Our only protection is to say 2nd amendment rights say...
I HAVE THE UP most respect for all law enforcement officers and when one comes close enough to hear me i always thank them for their service, most of them thank me and walk away, I know first hand the frustrations most officers have in the job they have to protect and serve, A family member was once a police officer and lost his job and how bitter he was over it,but he never took action on his feelings, he would say how he hated the politics on the job, and that was the end of his job, you must play the game or it will end in termination.
In my opinion this officer had a lot of time to resolve his anger only to get so wrapped up in all his frustrations over how the force handled his case, that he snapped and wrote it all down an then acted on it. i feel bad for the families of the victims, and hope this ends soon for all the people involved, with no more blood shed,
And those who are writing the new gun laws and band, like the Gov. in NY, are saying all ex policec officers are exempt from the new weapons band..Because ex-police, all of them can be trusted more than normal people not to loose thier calm and go on a murdering shooting spree..
Tell me how this is working out for you ant-weapon nuts.
An Ex-Cop with all of his/her baggage from yeras on teh force should be exempt from nay weapon ban according to our Democratic officials, yet a decorated VEt for the last 12 years should nto be trusted under the sdame laws they are pushing for.
Waant to know why?
Cops might not raise their weapons against tyranny and an assault against the Constitution, they don't take that oath, but....
American Soldiers who fought for, and watched good people die to protect our rights, will raise arms against a tyrannical and unlawful governing body that supports Commerce over the people, and special interest and self protectionism over the rights of the citizen body.
Find this whack job and put him away, just long enough to mix the chemicals, find a good rope, a few bullets or the electric bill is paid up for the excessive charge they will be using on him.
And rethink the Weapon situation. This was a Police officer, you know the ones that we are suppose to feel safe with. They are human and are just as susceptible to snap and use a weapon to commit a crime.
Would all those boys in blue who stand behind the politicians when they're making their case for gun control go along with a law to disarm cops of personal weapons because of the actions of one psycho cop?
That's what they do to the public....shove all kinds of laws down their throats because of the actions of a few psychos in a country of 300 million.
Any nutcase with an I.Q. above 70 can pass a psych exam. Means nothing. For those of you who do not know, there are far more important tests in becoming a cop. Before making Detective, I was a Field Training Officer. I would train the rookies coming out of the academy for 10 weeks (program time table), and during that time is when they show their true colors as to whether or not they will make it as a cop and give the FTO and others time to observe them in a very real environment. That is the true test. One can therefore be certain that in cases like this, at the time of the Psych Eval., there would likely have been a chance at forseeing his future somewhere between zero and 'foget about it.' People are human and flawed. The profession can be a catalyst, but, does not serve to indict others and cops really hate these things to happen because it gives the rest of us a bad name. It's indeed rare. The LAPD should have this guy on their top priority to find. And, I am quite certain they in fact do have. Nothing we hate more than for our own to go astray. (I'm retired now, so this just irks me still)
Thanks Perry, for your post and service.
And yet, there are still a lot of bad cops.
It doesn't hold a candle to the number of bad civilians! No contest. None. That's why there are cops in the first place, and yes, some of them are or go bad, just like civilians. Pretty shocking, huh?
My pops worked his way up to Chief of Investigations. I was raised around cops. Guess what, just like in any profession, there are good and bad. In all actuallity, the good cops far outnumber the bad cops but we don't hear everyday stories of good cops nor do we realize how many of them put themselves in harms way constantly...and there aren't many professions where one goes to work thinking they could die very easily at the hands of some moron.
The thing is - if a cop goes bad, it seems to reflect on all police while if say an accountant goes bad, no one says all accountants suck.
Black hair and brown eyes... Why give us any physical description if race isn't mentioned. I can see he is black but why isn't that mentioned as part of his description? How PC.
They did say he was a police officer! What more do you need? You don't think really think in those lines do you? What difference does it make, if it was a woman and did the same thing, would it change the crime?
The country needs to lock the boarders, for a few years, and start concentrating on internal problems. All types of crime and corruption. Possibly start evaluating life styles and clean up the country. One thing, they might do is start taking a certain percentage of a criminal rights, when convicted of a crime. If a criminal were to lose more than fifty percent of his rights, then they could put them in a program to evaluate them and do whatever it takes to force them to change or be separated from the main stream of society. This might help if they do it in a fair way.