You do know that collage's across the country also support the atmosphere for such predators, along with every other job in life. To say that it is just a military problem is wrong. Yes there is a problem in the military with this sort of action, and yes as an MP I believe anybody that commits these acts should be shot, but realistically the military does a better job at investigating and prosecuting these cases then civilian police.

Every other job in life? Really? Because I have been working in the automotive industry for some time now and although women in this industry are often objectified I have yet to hear of a rape case that didn't go anywhere.

"Every other job in life" that's about the stupidest statement I've heard so far on NV ever.

This is a problem with our military. The Brits don't have this problem, the French don't have this problem. They aren't out urinating on dead bodies, sexually abusing prisoners and taking pictures of it or buring the Koran. Maybe its just time you guys get your $#^t together.

@ JustaGrunt. Most people out there in the civilian world don't realize that the UCMJ has alot more TEETH than the civilian legal system.

I wouldn't say 'every other job in life', but neither would I say this is a problem with our military...or only with our military. Having never served myself, I wouldn't presume to make generalizations about the number of times or the number of people involved, but yes, male rape does happen in the military.

That having been said, however, it also happens elsewhere. College frat hazings, prisons, even persons pulled off the street. Children of both genders in human trafficking/ sex slave positions, prostitutes (of either gender) forced to go out by pimps...the list goes on. This can happen anywhere where one person seeks control over another even if they already have nominal physical control (such as a senior officer over a subordinate, or a prison guard over a prisoner).

It is not the physical act itself; it's the rush of power, control, dominance. It's knowing that you have such control over another human being that you can force them to do something completely against their will; it's the complex psychological emotions of both the victim and the rapist at the time the act occurrs, the nasty sort of pleased satisfaction the rapist gets when they see their victim again later, too afraid to tell or simply unable to make it an issue becuause no one will listen to you or you'll get comments like, 'you deserved it'. It's not being able to talk about it afterward, unable to get counseling, help or any form of assistance because no one believes you and no one wants to listen to you.

Having been a victim myself, I nderstand what these men are going through. I understand the frustration inherent in a rapist getting away with the act; knowing they are out there ciontinuing to do the same thing is one of the worst feelings. There;s also a sense of anger at the stsem that lets these rapists go unpunished, who condone (or at least, look the other way) when it happens/when it is reported, seek to stife the one reporting it, and getting rid of all evidence of the tragedy.

Having said that, let me point out that these men are being incredibly brave to come out and talk about it. It may not seem much now, but down the road this dialogue can lead to changes later in the way cases like these are prosecuted and handled. Rape reporting/prosecution is still very much in its infancy--rape against women wasn't talked about or acknowledged until the 80's, and these women had the same things said about them they must have asked for it, they liked, it, etc. There are still cases where the deck is stacked against victims and the law still needs to catch up with the reality but we are making strides, we will continue to improve and honesty in this issue, as with all others, is the first step to making the change we all want to see.

@ JustaGrunt. Most people out there in the civilian world don't realize that the UCMJ has alot more TEETH than the civilian legal system.

The letter of the law, be in Civilian law or the UCMJ, mean little if the law is unenforced. That, I believe is the allegation of the film, and the film critics mentioned in the story.

As to JustaGrunt's assertion that it is not particularly a military problem, I cannot say with certainty. The film maker has apparently made this allegation. I've not heard any such allegations in recent times with regard to civilian law enforcement.

Perhaps I'll see the film and then make a judgement.

Expecting a segment of the human population to behave on its own is always a losing bet, in this case males who use rape as a weapon. That's why punishment must fit the crime. Therein lies the problem. Too many don't see rape as a crime - or much of one, at least. If U.S. society threw every male convicted of rape into prison for decades (which will never happen), there wouldn't be room for any other criminals - though failing to prosecute and imprison rapists is just as harmful to society and the victim. Any time a society has a climate of dominance by exploitation (if not dominance by violent exploitation) - as the U.S. does - the bodies of victims will pile up from a variety of crimes, in every arena, including the military. No one of any age is safe in a violent Puritan culture that admires a hierarchy built on exploiting the weak while rewarding brute competitiveness. Whom a society respects is very telling as to how it operates at all levels. Until males change a culture that revels in shaming women and children with sex, some vulnerable males will also get caught in that crime.

I think the great Andrew Dice Clay said it best, and I'm paraphrasing; "You are either gay or you are not gay. You either have gay sex or you do not have gay sex."

Seriously? You're listening to Andrew Dice Clay over a plethora of psychologist, scientist and doctors who actually study the issue? You insult both the woman and the men in this article with that childish remark.

"It's not about gay sex. Typically the predators are heterosexual men who have this need to assert power, control and dominance,"

Interesting.

To DickCranium: I really don't think it is that simple. There are a few heterosexual men who get off on the power of dominating another man and controlling him, These men are cowards and scum of the earth, prisons are housing loads of these kinds of men. I am a woman so I don't claim to know all about the male psyche. People tend to compartmentalize things and separate the act from the rest of their lives. Maybe they do have homosexual desires and compartmentalize that and act out contrary to their desires, Well, I started out to refute your side and now I am almost to the point of agreeing with you. Go figure.

I feel so sorry for these poor men. The documentary film makers are trivializing their plight because they don't think the country will take the issue as seriously if we are told that more men than women are raped in the military. But that attitude is sparked in part by a media that ignores the issue, and these men are being extremely brave to give their stories in the first place. There are many risks involved for them. Frankly, I suspect the men who rape the women and the men who rape the men are, indeed, actually the very same rapists. They were bullies in childhood, and they are rapists in adulthood. Call them bisexual if you want, as perhaps that might at least embarrass them. Any guy who rapes another guy should be accused of being homosexual, and any guy who rapes a woman should be accused of being part of the Taliban, if only for the possible deterrence created by that association. At least it communicates that we're not impressed.

"This is a problem with our military. The Brits don't have this problem, the French don't have this problem. They aren't out urinating on dead bodies, sexually abusing prisoners and taking pictures of it or buring the Koran. Maybe its just time you guys get your $#^t together"

To "Dem in Texas"....Yes, the British and French troops DO have problems such as this. It isn't widely publicized in their culture for the mere fact the muslim population is much larger in their society and retribution is almost a given, even for the slightest offense.

I doubt you've ever spent any time in the military or you wouldn't criticize our entire military because of a few isolated incidents. Don't criticize those who have served when you haven't walked in their shoes.

JustaGrunt

As a former Marine Military Police officer as well, I understand very good well, the mentality of how much the military is willing to investigate and hold accountable those who commit such acts.Because I was one of less than 300 females on a base of over 9,000 men,for quite some time. In addition to others, and talking to relatives who served, I came to understand a great deal of how military justice works. My father, grandfathers, uncles, and cousins in the military.Over 150 years of service total.

You will note, I didn't say it was just a military problem. However, the structure and culture of the military is quite different from any civilian job as you well know. Starting by virtue of the contract-pledge made to serve ones country, obey the chain of command and be bound to military law that Uniform Code of Military Justice). Civilian bosses can't court martial you for being late for work. Just fire you. There is an atmosphere of tradition, constant seniority reminders, protocols, gestures and daily discipline enforced unlike other job. Which also demands absolute immediate compliance. Drilled into every single military personnel from day one.So, when something happens to you, and you tell your superior, the idea of going over their head, is not the first thing you think of. Let along over tha next person's head. You recognize the need for the system put in place. If you don't, then why join the service to begin with?

Those who don't comply, fail expectations,can face humiliation,exhausting physical discipline,or other negative consequences. Punishing the group, for the one is common. This forces others to take proactive steps in the future and make that individual comply when they stumble, before leaders see it, handling the "problem." Working to make a cohesive unit. Exactly what the military wants. Yet this also promotes the wrong environment for sexual abuse. Because leaders have embarrassed those below them. They have degraded them, treated them harshly. If military leaders treated civilians like soldiers, they would get sued. But since soldiers signed up voluntary, they accept the harsh, at times brutal treatment. Is is any wonder then, when rapes occur, it can be so devastating, and difficult to get justice? Silent complicity mixed with abusers. In a system where men are supposed to be tough, deal with anything.

So many people have so much faith in the system, they don't believe it is failing these men, or women for that matter.Some have myopic vision. They think victims are just exaggerating. They must be folks who weren't cut out for the military, unhappy because they couldn't cut it.While the reality is, this is systemic. According to my father, uncles, cousins. In a culture where people are going into a profession that is naturally going to attract some people who like to have power over others. Just like the police force attracts some who will abuse power. So, until more leaders in the military are willing to face facts, crack down on sexual assault, step in and clean out the ranks, not much will change.

I'm very shocked in the first place that this is happening in our military. Where is the pride and honor that comes from putting on the US Military uniform. These rapes make me sick to my stomach. For those who have suffered the shame, pain and disgust of this horrible act I pray you will heal mentally from your torture.

For those who have inflicted the shame, pain and such a disgusting act on any other person I pray you will live with the horrors you cause for the rest of your life. That is one thing about the mind, it NEVER forgets.

Lynn,

"I doubt you've ever spent any time in the military or you wouldn't criticize our entire military because of a few isolated incidents. Don't criticize those who have served when you haven't walked in their shoes."

I spent 20 years in the military and never even heard of a single person being raped or sexually assaulted. Now I'm seeing it all over the place anymore. It makes me wonder if they aren't just making all this up. Either that or our military has really gone down hill since I retired. It's starting to sound like an X-rated movie.

@stally

seriously, you used the word "plethora" ? LMAO

Exasperated737:

Any guy who rapes another guy should be accused of being homosexual, and any guy who rapes a woman should be accused of being part of the Taliban.

So are we now equating an accusation (as if labeling a crime) of being homosexual with an accusation of being a part of the Taliban? Perhaps it was not your intent to express it this way, but it sure did come across as such. We do not need to relabel. The label of rapist should be good enough.

I spent 20 years in the military and it all really depends on the command you are at and the people who are in charge as to whether or not something is taken seriously or dealt with correctly. I remember a woman who brought up a charge of sexual harassment against her command. They allowed another command to do the investigating. Unfortunately, that other command wasn't unbiased. They weren't some other command that was 20 - 50 miles away. The commanding officer of the other command was across the hall in the same building and golf buddies with the commanding officer of the command being investigated. So, you can imagine how the investigation went. This woman's claims were found to be unwarranted and unjustified and she was reduced in rank and worked for half pay for 6 months.

This article talks about two men seperated by 30 years of service having this happen to them. Many of the other reports I am sure are true but some are not, I can see there being a certain amount of pesimism by commanding officers, but I also know as a veteran these complaints are taken very,very seriously as are all complaints in the military. There is a the possibility that young men from different backgrounds living in close quarters, could indeed be acting out a repressed need to engage in a deviant sex act or may be homosexual.Whatever the case it is truly reprehensible and if found guilty these people that commit these crimes will have the book thrown at them. This is not a reflection of our Military. When I served this did not go on but that was before Don't ask Don't tell.

DickC

"Heterosexual men don't have sex with other men." This is a myth that arises from conflating sexual assault with sex and sexual gratification. Sex is not the goal in a sexual assault, it is the weapon. Unfortunately, it is a weapon with wide historical use within military groups and war, as well as in civil society. "Against Our Will," an older book, is quite effective in it's explanation of this particular atrocity.

Again, as is explained repeatedly, sexual assault is about power and control. The goal is not sexual gratification, but to exert control over the victim via the most personal, psychologically painful violation and wielding the resulting humiliation against them. Because of societal mores and taboos, when a hetero male is so assaulted by another male, it is particularly devastating to his psyche, making it a brutally effective weapon that has been utilized without compassion throughout our collective history. One must understand the distinction between sex and sexual assault.

Dem in Texas,

Yes it is a problem in every other job out there. Just because you have not heard of it happening, does that mean it hasn't. Do you hear about every sexual assault that happens in the automotive industry? Does the company handle it, or do the local police?

@ Winddancer,

I am sorry if I came across harsh, after looking over what I wrote it does seem like I am coming down on you. As a former MP I am sure you can understand the level of frustration that comes with these type of articles. They always seem to make the military look like we are doing nothing when in fact we have a better prosecution record of most civilian agencies. I take pride in working my butt off to put men and women who do this behind bars and out of the military.

I have to say that most male on male rapes go unreported as men are seen as suppose to be able to defend themselves, and are looked upon as weak if they where not able to stave off an attacker.

So it is of no surprise to me that so few men are heard in this. You might be surprised how often this occurs and goes unreported.

I concur that this is not about sex...It is about control. So, let's try and stay away from labeling this as a gay or homosexual act when it is not.

I've known alot of gay men, all of which were assaulted by another man as a child. The gay community doesn't talk about it much, period. The only reason I know is because they all voluntarily in one way or the other chose to tell me. How about it's a problem no matter what the circumstances.

Ro Mar

Again, as is explained repeatedly, sexual assault is about power and control. The goal is not sexual gratification

Repeating something over and over does not make it so. Explain to me how an individual can come to a sexual climax if it ain't sexual gratification.

Ro Mar, well said. Unfortunately too many people in this country hold on to their hate and misinformation rather than learn something new.

In terms of making the film, we felt the entry point in this discussion was more women being assaulted because we felt it was a discussion that people would start to have,"

In other words, the film producers don't really want to talk about male rape victims, why? Is that just a little TOO uncomfortable for them??? Probably, hypocrits!

Luci-1356914

I have to call BS on your statement.

I'm gay and was not as a child raped by another man.

I am very active in the LGBT community and if anyone would be open about sexual violence we are.

We are more apt to address violence than are other groups.

I don't know how many gay men you know or have known but I can assure you that while sexual violence does occur against the LGBT community "a lot" is no more or less than other groups. We are more apt to be beat, or abused in other ways in general becasue of our orientation.

Just by your statement you come across as though somehow if they are gay they invited it or wanted it...You would be wrong. It is an act of control over another person period. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation PERIOD.

Coming into contact with a few gay men does not make you an expert on the subject.

I doubt Lucy even knows any gay men period. If you look at her Facebook profile, she's a right wing religious whacknut who hates gays.

DickC - the same way a woman gets wet and sometimes has an orgasm when they are raped, it's a physical response, it doesn't mean they enjoyed it.

DickCranium

Ro Mar

Again, as is explained repeatedly, sexual assault is about power and control. The goal is not sexual gratification

Repeating something over and over does not make it so. Explain to me how an individual can come to a sexual climax if it ain't sexual gratification.

how do u know that they are having a sexual climax....some rapists do and some don't.....however the point is that the ACT of the control is what is getting them off sexually....not the sex act itself.....does that help you to understand how it's not about sex but ALL about control!!!

Mickey,

You're kidding right? You say you served in the military for 20 years and NEVER heard of anybody getting raped or sexually abused. What? Did you serve with your eyes covered and your hands over your ears? Myself, I never served but was army brat of an Army officer for 35 years ... Every single post my Dad was stationed at - at sometime or another - a rape and/or sexual assault happened - quite frequently, as a matter of fact.

The problem is denial. Just sweep it under the rug, like it never happened.

Dr.EndTheDrugWar-4061401

DickC - the same way a woman gets wet and sometimes has an orgasm when they are raped, it's a physical response, it doesn't mean they enjoyed it.

getting wet as u call it is a physical response to stimulation such as a male getting a hard when he is sexually stimulated...an orgasm is COMPLETELY different....u need your mind to have one of those....I have yet to EVER hear of a female rape victim who had an orgasm as a result of being sexually assaulted!!!

Steve... I questioned Luci's remarks as well... I, too, have known "lots" of gay guys.... how many are "lots"?.... Since she did point out that her guys were raped as children, made me wonder if she was blaming that act as a "cause" for them to become gay... Just a perception...

the queenie

(((Hugs))) Morning

You go with your bad self.....Right on give em hell.

I don't get how these people are all of the sudden experts on the subject. None of them have said they have worked with rape victims (survivors) that are men, women or children. Nor have they said it happened to them and they know. They just flip out a statement and see if it sticks to the wall. Asses.

Lisa from Wayland

I agree..I almost went off on that one myself (well I did kinda)...I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt. There is a huge difference between sexual experimentation and assault.

Hi Steve...yes ignorance run amuck as usual on the Vine this AM:)

{hugs} to you as well my friend!!!!

As a survivor of attacks in my childhood, I have to look with suspicion at men who are so willing to be a part of a movie so that they can have their victimization spotlighted ("Pick meee, pick meee!" Very off-putting). I've dealt with my issues and moved on. I sense some kind of strange jealousy here...which only further validates what I've heard about many Navy recruits after all.

And I thought the worst thing that could happen to you by joining the military was to be KIA. Apparently not.

Sounds just like the same problems found in sports, frats, boy scouts, religion, and any other male dominated culture.

Women are the key to success. That is why I can't wait for the catholic church to wither away.

Dick Cranium said;

Explain to me how an individual can come to a sexual climax if it ain't sexual gratification.

Because climax is a biophysical response, and sexual gratification is a mental/emotional/psychosexual response. The very fact that you had to ask that indicates you have never been a victim of a rape/unwanted sexual contact, so I'm going to try and explain this in a way that someone who's never gone through it can understand.

Let's start with some definitions here;

climax--Let's define that as the actual physical act of releasing sperm, in the male; and the vaginal contractions in a female.

sexual gratification--Let's define this as the feeling of being sexually satisfied after a 'climax' per the definition above.

You with me so far? Okay.

It is possible for the physical body to experience a physical climax without an accompanying impression of 'gratification'.

This is especially true in cases of rape that do not involve penetration of another's sexual organs into one's own body--a rapist's digital manipulation of the victim's sexual organs to a climax. The rapist gets intense personal psychosexual satisfaction in watching the victim's body respond to manipulation against the victim's will and consent, but does not achieve 'climax' from the act. The victim may achieve climax from the event but there is no feeling of 'gratification'; it's shame, humiliation, disgust, loathing, and a loss of personal dignity, humanity and privacy. Particularly if there were witnesses to the act.

Let me give you an example (my apologies to everyone, including moderators, if you find this graphic; I apologize, I simply don't know how to explain this except by an example, and it is an important point that many people don't grasp):

During my stay in a deportation camp, guards could order us to strip at any time, anywhere, for no particular reason, for a strip and body cavity search. We had to comply, and the guards would pick out their 'favorites' in the pod and commence body cavity searches. As we were told we didn't have the right to ask that a female guard perform these searches, the male guards could (and many did) make a game of seeing who could get their prisoner to climax. Those of us who were very sensitive experienced intense feelings of shame, humiliation, degradation, since other guards and other prisoners watching would laugh...and those women who weren't as sensitive and didn't climax as easily looked at us as 'sluts' because we did. It was nothing we could help, every person's body is different; we just got lot better at controlling visible signs so that guards would get less satisfaction.

On the guards' side,thy weren't going to climax out in the yard for everyone to see but they did experience psychosexual gratification from this exercise of power, being able to force another person's body to climax while the person got no satisfaction. The denial of natural human feelings,or being able to control another person to the point of twisting a natural physical reaction into something intensely shameful, is the object here. The victim then becomes afraid of the rapist, and for many, it's that fear that is the ultimate goal. This is especially intense when the victim knows they will encounter their rapist on a regular basis,be required to have regular interaction, and knows that any complaints will not be listened to or attended or prosecuted; and that penalties could befall the victim.

will90604

While I congratulate you on moving past your assault.

As per my statement above.

Most men especially heterosexual men are very reluctant to talk about a sexual assault against them as it is again perceived as being weak (by you or another male) that you could not stave off the attack because you are male.Thus most men say "well I would have done __— if someone tried that with me". That is what hinders disclosure of sexual assault among men.

Having these men come forward and bringing the subject to light is not a pick me thing. It is more one of this happens and we need to talk about it, make it something that men can talk about and address openly & get rid of the stigma and shame.

Would you not agree?

Why does every minority get offended that they don't get equal attention?

If male sexual assault is 1% of the sexual assaults, you don't get 50% of the attention. You get 1%. You're no more important than anyone else.

If one thinks that rape is not about power and is about sexual gratification, I suggest you take a course on this subject or read some studies. Just because you have some intuitive notions in your head or have made some lazy associations does not mean they are correct. I suggest reading "Thinking, Fast and Slow". Why would a young man pick a grandmother to rape ? It would seem the director's motive is not to represent the truth but to mass market and thus make money.

I also might add that I have personal experience with this subject.

As a young adult in my early 20's, I was sexually assaulted by a man with a knife to my throat.

I could do nothing.

I walked around with the shame and guilt that I should have been able to defend myself.

It took a long time to be able to talk about the sexual assault, and when I did I found the knowledge I imparted to you in my post #1.41.

I got help. I went on to help others...So I do know what I'm talking about on this subject first hand... I survived it.

Spencer-399802

You don't get it.... see my post 1.41, and then tell me why the report rate is low.

It has nothing to do with any one group.

Spencer:

But if it's in the minority, then a little more attention could serve to wipe it out altogether, making it an issue for no one.

At the college campus where my boss is an associate professor, a student recently came down with tuberculosis. This is one person in thousands, yet prompt attention was given to the case, awareness of it made widely public, and everyone was alerted so they could take precautions to keep it from spreading.

Violence, any kind of violence, is a disease, and swift action to expose it, and public condemnation to stop it, is the only key to getting rid of it.

Spencer,

Seeing as you lack basic reading ability let me quote you something from the article.

"You can't really address the problem of military sexual trauma until you include the 56 percent of the victims — the men — and they are being ignored right now"

They are upset because they are getting 1% of the attention for being 56% of the victims. Try reading next time.

Queenie,

It is actually entirely possible for women to orgasm while being raped. And it was actually used as a defense to get men off, since they claimed that if she orgasmed, it couldnt have been rape.

@MrBurns - for someone to use an orgasm as a point for defense to say that it was all voluntary, is like stating that hangings were voluntary - 99% of people who have been hanged to death throughout history experienced an orgasm. So for someone to believe that in a defense for rape, they must be naive. It is brought on by fear and the feelings of uncontrol as well as other mental states in the mind, not enjoyment.

Heterosexual men don't have sex with other men. If they did it would obviously make them homosexual.

Sex and sexuality are very different things.

Queenie,

It is actually entirely possible for women to orgasm while being raped. And it was actually used as a defense to get men off, since they claimed that if she orgasmed, it couldnt have been rape.

I did not say that it NEVER happens just that I've never heard a victim say it happened to them....can u please cite a reputable source I'd like to take do some research especially the part where u say it can be used against a victim's claim of rape in court......thank you!!!

Rape is rape! Period! Man or woman, rape is rape! You never fully recover from it. You never forget it. You never get over the fear and the pain and the humiliation of it! Rape is rape. It's wrong. It should hold the same penalty as murder!! You destroy a persons life, even if they manage to live. I would call that, murder! Unfortunately, it gets a slap on the wrist most of the time and the women, or men, are the ones put on trial. It's time we charged and convicted rapists more harshly across the board!! Maybe that would be a deterrent. If there is a second offense, castration.

While the queers (gay acquaintances said that was ok) are having their hug fest let me ask the rest of the men who have managed to keep reading...do you really think you could rape a guy? Really?! How do you rape a man? I mean this sincerely, barring knocking him senseless...ok I get it...but how does a man who is not gay even approach the idea of doin' a guy as a control issue, much less keep it up while fighting a guy? Sorry, I know the left loves to tout this but it ain't so. A straight guy IS NOT DOIN' ANOTHER GUY FOR A POWER TRIP!!! He's queer to begin with if it even starts down that road...echhh. I've worked testosterone pumping jobs my entire life and I'm tellin' ya...this is propaganda!. Queers and the left love to spout the control/sex issue but, I'm sorry, if I'm pissed atcha...I'm out for a butt whoopin' not a butt spankin' :) I get the hetero angle...but a dude is not doin' a dude unless he's runnin' about a half a bubble outta plumb to begin with ;) A mans arse is not cause for a tingly feelin' in your drawers unless you're the host of Hardball staring at onumbnuts give a speech.
I know of NO man that thinks otherwise...other than our lefty queer brethren. And yes, the female queer folk I've worked with say the same thing. You got a screw loose if you think doin' a man's arse is puttin' you in control;)

DickC

Please, engage in a refresher couse in biology. The greatest harm done in a sexual assault (aside from physical injury which typically heals,) is to the psyche. Your biological response and the response of the psyche are entirely different. It's because of that particular myth that so many children feel ashamed and do not report assaults by pedophiles. Their little bodies may actually respond (no, not always, but sometimes,) and they feel guilt because people like yourself toss out these absurd and damaging tropes that if the body responds it's not psychologically harmful.

Your inability to grasp the proven concept that sexual assault is about power and control does not obviate the reality. The information, stats and evidence are out there and you clearly are internet savvy, so educate yourself rather than insisting upon denial. Embracing the myths is keeping our society from properly addressing the problem. There is a difference between ignorance on a subject and making the intentional choice to stay ignorant on the topic. I sincerely hope you are not in the latter group.

I've been in children's advocacy for almost 30 years now, and am still left shocked when people actually embrace and repeat those fallacies. The information is out there, get educated. Repeating myths is harmful to survivors and future survivors. We need a clear grasp of facts, not fallacies, to address this societal scourge.

you sound redneck

Dick Cranium,

I suggest you stop thinking with your little head and use the one on your shoulders to read a Biology 101 text book.

I did not say that it NEVER happens just that I've never heard a victim say it happened to them

Well of course you haven't. And there is a very good reason for that. It would be used as justification for saying they weren't raped. Pfft.

"It's not about gay sex. Typically the predators are heterosexual men who have this need to assert power, control and dominance,"

So he does it to another male, rather than a female? If it was simply about dominance, why involve drugs? Please, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... Gender identity has little baring on sexual behavior. A lot of people are missing the point of the article while going off on tangents about rape, orgasm, and the like, the real issue is that male sexual assault shouldn't be underreported, and it is. I've sat through numerous sexual assault classes, and I sometimes feel they turn into a male bashing orgy rather than addressing the problem.

To all of you saying it's not about power for a man to rape a man, really? A rapist doesn't care who he controls or how, he just wants the control and the power. Often, the straight men who rape another man, exert that power over someone smaller, more afraid of the stigma and less likely to talk! Rape is rape! It's violent, destructive and it doesn't matter what gender you are!! Just because you can't imagine it, doesn't make it less real!

Capt,

You are exactly correct. Too many individuals on here thinking way too much about it. I have not the least bit interest in having sex with a man let alone raping one. If I want to dominate another man I'd challenge him to a fight. All this psychological rationalization BS it just that, BS. I also believe it is to rationalize away the thought that it has everything to do with sex and how gay men could not possibly have raped these men. Pulease.

Capt

DickCranium

Your statements are dumb as dirt. How do you account for prison rape? It's the same damn thing. You know nothing on the subject of rape if you think for one minute it has to do with sexual orientation. You also don't understand the term of rape.

You both show a profound amount of ignorance and make yourselves look like idiots by your statements.

Here is why rape and sexual assault are about power and not about sexual identity.
I'm going to mostly use the example of male on male rape, since that seems to
be the one that confuses people the most, as evidenced by many of the posts
here, but it can apply to any combination of genders.

The first thing to understand is that power is an incredibly strong aphrodisiac. This
is a large part of the reason why there are scandals in the news all the time
involving politicians, sports stars, people with large amounts of wealth, etc.

Second, there are sexual experiences that don't involve interaction with the opposite
gender that are considered to be completely normal, such as masturbation. But
people don't go around saying that anyone who masturbates is sexually attracted
to hands, or that you have to find hands arousing in order to masturbate.

Which brings us to the issue or rape and power. A man raping another man is not doing
it because he is secretly gay. He is doing it to exert power over his victim.
He is denying his victim's very humanity by the act of rape. He is essentially
proving to his victim that the victim is not a person and therefore has no
gender, they are just an object to be used. This is also how you can end up
with male on male gang rape, where the group is both exercising their power
over the victim and reinforcing to one another that the victim is not to be
considered anything but an object to be used, not worth any more consideration
than a Playboy magazine being passed around. The rapists are also proving,
symbolically, that they are *not* mere "things" like their victim
because they are the ones doing the raping, unlike their victim.

Short of murder, necrophilia or sex with children or animals, a person can find a
willing adult to engage in pretty much any sexual fantasy one can imagine
without having to use force or coercion. Rape is about imposing your will on
your victim without their consent and doing so in a way that shows to both them
and to you that they are not really a person worthy of consideration but just a
thing and that they are powerless to stop it. And some people find that sort of
power very arousing.

Capt said;

do you really think you could rape a guy? Really?! How do you rape a man?

Rape is not just the physical act of putting your body part into another person's body part. Rape is also any act with sexual overtones that result in negative psychosexual results.

One doesn't need to actually penetrate another male to have 'raped' the man. Forcing another man to strip and manipulate himself to climax (see definitions in post 1.40) also qualifies.Forcing one male to penetrate another male qualifies as rape of both males. In the jungles of Africa, the rogue militia rebels like Joseph Kony will force men in a village to rape the women of the village; brother to rape sister, man to rape wife. The ones being forced to perform the act are both rape victims irregardless of who is doing the penetrating and who is the penetrated.

Closer to home,there are plenty of gay-haters who rape gay men by forcing foreign objects into bodily orifices. There are women who rape men by forcing a release even when the man has no interest in the woman at all. I saw men in the deportation camp I was in be forced to have/maintain an erection through overzealous body cavity searches (prostate manipulation.) The intent here was to make the prisoner erect, laugh at him, then hit the offending organ to cause pain and trauma. They identified themselves as straight--and they didn't focus on just the men, they did it to both males and females, young men and women and gray-haired grandfathers and grandmothers, even pregnant women. One of the guards even boasted about using the same stick on the prisoners that he used on his wife. The prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib was also an example--wasn't just Lynndie who did it, her husband participated in making prisoners strip, parade around, crawl, display genitalia.

Amanda-2017567 & Merianya

Thank you for your posts ((Hugs)).

These big bad macho men that make these blanket statements, do this hit and run. They find out that there are educated people in the debate, then run to the next feed to see if they can get others to agree with their stupidity. All we can do is hope they stick around long enough to read our posts.

Capt

DickCranium

Would you rape a woman?

O'Baggers war on Gay White males has started. Too bad boys. Obama is doing everything to make the USA a women dominated Country. With 2 girls and no male children ( explains why he likes women's talk shows so much) O'Bama will do anything to have women controll everything.

lee - you need help.

LMFAO!! Yeah, and about 6 people will watch it.

Who can really afford to go to the big movie theatres anymore?Not even the cheapseat theatres are that cheap anymore either.You are broke after you buy the popcorn.

@ ROIDS: oh u so so edgy!

*eyeroll*

If I'm going to spend my hard-earned cash at the movies then I'm not going to watch this silly film. I'd rather see a good action flick like "Deliverance". lol

Why bother going to the movies anyhow, most of them are just remakes of older movies or just clones of all the other movies being made. Most seem like the story and plot are randomly created in a computer and then add a few actors to spew out their lines, some explosions and gunfire, say the "F" word 100,000,000 times a minute and they're done - and for that they charge you $20 a person and $168 for popcorn and a soda.

KhanKubla is so right!

Anne Hathaway's movie Les Miserables which is up for Best Picture. Is a remake of a movie that has come out 5 times since 1931. WTF?? Maybe all that cocaine and weed has finally caught up? Hollywood has suffered from writers block for some time now.

My alltime record movie night price: 42 bucks just for me.

I saw "Avatar" in Imax 3D. 20 bucks for the movie ticket and 22 bucks for large popcorn & soda.

Les Miserables is one of the great works of French literature. It details the events leading up to, and the emotions that sparked, the French Revolution. The fact that you ONLY know it from the movies indicates you've never read it and I would wager that, from the general tenor of your post, you will likely never read the whole 1000+ page novel. I read it in 5th grade, thanks to my Dad who thought that exposure to the great classics of world literature would broaden my mind and open cultural horizons--and generously let his precocious daughter read her way through his entire stash of college books...!

It is, therefore, only reasonable that multiple remakes of the book have been done in Hollywood. how many different versions of the 'King Arthur' legend have there been? Robin Hood? Dracula? How many different movies have been done of various Shakespeare plays, of Sherlock Holmes? But each time something is redone, it brings a new, fresh perspective to the story and the genre. Good example; CBS's new show Elementary' while many Sherlock Holmes remakes focus on the crime-solving aspects of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's detective stories, 'Elementary' brings up some details that many tend to overlook from the books--Doyle having Holmes use cocaine being one, and that Holmes plays piano and violin being the other.

Now, that having been said, Anne Hathaway's Les Mis is not a remake of the book, but actually a movie version of the musical that's been running for 25+ years. While I have not yet seen it (I have an autistic child and to take him to a 2+ hour movie would be torturing him, as well as everyone else who paid for a ticket to see it!) I will wait until it comes out on DVD and buy it. The concerts have been fantastic and I expect the movie will be too.

I've never liked movie theaters. Someones kid always cries at the wrong moment, someone always talks just when I'm trying to hear, and there always seems to be someone talking to someone else saying this is what happens next...I really don't like spoilers.

Id much rather watch at home when I can hit pause, run to the bathroom, and come back without having missed anything.

Amanda,

Good luck with the young man...and kudos to your old man (always hated that term). I, from a low brow perspective, have enjoyed every remake of The Thing. I enjoy the "make believe" world and I enjoy different interpretations of some of the classics that you chose and the craft that you elucidate. Don't misunderstand me however...I'm a right wing nut job and proud of it!

Your son may enjoy (some day) the latest remake of King Kong :) Some kids with autism are awestruck at some movies...it's a crapshoot but when you get lucky it's like striking gold (I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new).

Capt:

He's nine, and loves Transformers. Anything technical with a lot of detail catches his attention. Anything mechanical falls apart under his hand with magical ease (he's less good about putting things back together.)His teachers know better than to let him anywhere near the school computers without supervision.

I bought him a t-shirt that says 'I void warranties' for a good reason!

But we lucked out on Transformers--he loves it and he wants to be a mechanic when he gets older--good solid profession for a high-functioning autistic with a magic hand with tools. He also really liked 'Real Steel' when it came out too.

The rapist is gay/bi or he wouldn't have even considered doing what he did.

As long as you can't see the difference between a loving, intimate act between two consenting adults...and the violent, abusive attack that is rape...then you won't see that orientation has NOTHING to do with it.

It's not about sex. It's about power, control and violence. Sex is just the club they use, to inflict the greatest amount of humiliation and shame.

Wow. Ignorance knows no bounds.

If a man gets a stiffy over another man, he's gay. Stop with all this "power, control" crap.

Bobster:

An incredibly ignorant statement.

@AnOzofTruth: Sexual orientation has nothing whatsoever with rape. As a survivor of sexual abuse/assault, I know that rape is one of the most hurtful and dehumanizing acts one person can do to another. It is all about rage, the need to dominate, and to inflict the worst possible psychic pain. I couldn't tell anyone because of the shame and guilt and the feeling of being unclean--lucky for me, therapy and having a loving life partner has helped me recover and I hope someday society at large will acknowledge this does happen to men as well women.

Just remember folks that this rapist wasn't 'possessed'.

Prior to the act, he consciously thought about raping another man. For the rapist to claim it was a solely a 'dominance' thing is a cop-out. Sure, it played a role but in the end, a 'straight' man (who still had access to women) decided to rape another man.

I don't buy the heterosexual male rapes another male for power and domination. How can a man become so aroused he can penetrate another male, unless he's sexually aroused? The guy is either gay or bisexual. I just can't buy into the Politically Correct garbage that it's about power and domination.

If you can't "buy into" the FACT rape- whether male/female, male/male, or female/female- IS all about power and domination, I suggest you do more reading. Being gay or bisexual has nothing to do with it.

Well, Cathy, assuming you're right, maybe Zheng and I just don't understand psychopaths and how someone becomes aroused by concepts that aren't sensual in nature. Hey, that must mean there are people that become aroused by other emotional concepts like hopelessness or failure.

Nothing to be ashamed of, Zheng.

Does Cathy have a special insight into the psychopathic mind because she is also a psychopath? We don't know. I hope not. They don't know the rapist and neither do we. We just know from experience people often justify their behavior (often elaborately) when they are ashamed of something.

Cheers to all

Oz: Do you have some special insight into the mind of a rapist or a gay man?

I feel that it is long past time to bring the issue of men been raped and being beaten by women as these two things have been going on for as long as it has been for women. But the men are made to feel as if they are not manly if they say anything. To me it makes them more of a man to let these hurt, ashamed feelings out.

The fact that you "don't buy it," or understand it does not mean it isn't the truth. It just means you lack an education in the complex issues underlying this problem and your bias perpetuates a myth. Unfortunately, our society cannot address this problem until we move past denial.

Oz: Do you have some special insight into the mind of a rapist or a gay man?

Can't say I do have any insight into the mind of a rapist. A psychopath? Definitely not. As a bisexual that has had numerous advances from 'straight' men that justify their actions 100 different ways? Yes, I have.

A rapist either does it for sexual reasons and is gay/bi, but still needs to justify his act and divert responsibility with his claims -OR-

The rapist truly is attracted to power and is a psychopath...

For someone to convince me the rapist was not gay/bi, they would need to convince me that he targeted a particular male for reasons not related to sexual attraction. If it was a "power' thing, logic tells me you should rape your superior. So why contemplate it, target someone, and make sure to do it when you're alone so you don't get caught. Sounds targeted, premeditated, and deliberate to me. I just know from experience dealing with people they often go to great pains to minimalize 'the damage' when they're ashamed of something.

To those saying it's all about gay sex and nothing to do with power and control, think about this. Anyone ever heard of a Seaman Apprentice raping a Petty officer, or a PFC raping a Staff Sergeant? Neither have I.

Amanda #1.4 explains it best.

Cathy, dont't forget about the femal on male rape. It does happen, but good luck in ever seeing that case go anywhere.

There are people who are aroused by violence. So for those people, it wouldn't be related at all to the gender of the person they are raping-it would be the violent nature of the attack. So I would certainly not say that 100% of men who rape other men are homosexual (I certainly wouldn't say either that 0% are homosexual). And not all sexual assaults are done using the attacker's body-sometimes objects are used-so in those instances, the attacker may or may not be aroused.

It's just that the motivations for consensual sex and rape are completely different-if they were the same, a would-be rapist would just go out and find someone to consent to sex with them (there are lots of people of both genders and various sexual orientations who will consent with pretty much anybody-so I don't think it would be that hard to find someone). As someone who is not a rapist, and who will never become a rapist, it seems clear to me that a rapist must have a very different mindset from my own, and it would follow that their motivations would be very different as well.

To those saying it's all about gay sex and nothing to do with power and control, think about this. Anyone ever heard of a Seaman Apprentice raping a Petty officer, or a PFC raping a Staff Sergeant? Neither have I.

No, sure haven't. Logic would dictate to me that if I wanted to 'feel powerful', I would do JUST THAT. I would rape my superior.

But, maybe the reason it happens the other way around is because in those hours/days, that the guy is contemplating it and dreaming up how it's going to happen and who he's going to target (for reasons totally not related to attraction-wink,wink) he realizes that if he targets a superior, there is less of a chance he would get away with it...Hmm.

People assert power over others they consider themselves above (either in explicit rank or for some other reason) in many different ways-it's how they maintain their position of power. It's the same reason people bully others-put those who are "lesser" than them down to feel better about themselves or to feel powerful. It's asserting power over those that they can-and possibly to compensate for not being able to feel powerful over those above them. Regardless of the rank of the person who is attacked, it's still a way of showing someone you are above them. If there is a choice between attacking a superior (which will probably not be gotten away with and may result in a diminished standing) or an underling where success is assured-which option is guaranteed to get the craved feeling of power?

No, sure haven't. Logic would dictate to me that if I wanted to 'feel powerful', I would do JUST THAT. I would rape my superior.

You are looking at this far too simplistically, which is why this problem has been going on forever without being addressed...people like you who automatically assume that all these men must be gay...and since they are gay, the "solution" is to ban gays from the military. You might remember we tried that.

These men do not magically transform who they are attracted to in life, who they want to date, spend time with, make love to, marry, raise a family and grow old with....just because they raped a man. None of that changes. Just as it doesn't change for the victim, who has just (forcibly and unwillingly) also engaged in "gay" sex. They are still whatever orientation they started out with, and that is typically heterosexual.

It can be confusing until you accept that straight men can and do rape other men. That is a fact. They are still sexually attracted exclusively to women. Rape is not an act of attraction...it's an act of violence, intended to be an attack on the most intimate and vulnerable part of another's body and psyche. It's an act of total and complete ownership and domination. It's not sex.

In the military people are given total power over others. For some, that seems to trigger a defect in their character that makes them want to abuse that power in horrible ways. It's common to hear about superiors appearing to take perverse pleasure in forcing those under them to do demeaning and degrading tasks. This is just a horrific extension of that defect taken to it's extreme limit.

Hi OZ,

You sound like a nice guy, but you "logic" is getting in the way of your brains.
That is not how the power game works. They do not go looking for someone stronger than them
to challenge, they look for someone weaker that will be an easy victory.

Haven't you ever seen a school-yard bully? I've read that some pedophiles, most prison rapes and most rapes in general are all about seeking out someone (or something) weaker and dominating them.

Its easy to try and filter everything through the way your own mind works, but if your not into it,
admit you don't know. Rape is a very different thing than "sex". As someone else noted objects can be and are used. And first off, I "think" most of us are turned off at the idea of actually hurting someone. That is the goal of the rapist, so equating rape to sex is kind of sick.

That's what I thought, FactoftheMatter.

My guess is that there are too many knuckle scrapers who equate male on male rape with homosexuality and those are the same people who hardly need an excuse to attack gays as it is. It sounds like the producers thought the best way to address the problems would be to avoid the inevitable smoke-screen of bigotry that would be thrown up by people who confuse an act of violence with an act of intimacy....but still get the rules changed with their publicity.

GEE!... maybe it's actually how HOMOSEXUALITY IS DEFINED GENIUS!!!!!!!

Maybe that's just how YOU define it..what do you call a person who has never had sex, but loves a person of the same sex?

"what do you call a person who has never had sex, but loves a person of the same sex?"

Friendzoned.

Most rapists - everywhere - are male.
Most rape victims - everywhere - are female, the overwhelming number of whom are under 18 years of age.

A rape culture - and all sexual exploitation - exists only because hierarchical males in leadership positions rape and/or condone rape, which creates permanently warped channels that course throughout that society down to the youngest males, impacting everyone. And those rapists/condoners pass along that sociopathy to their offspring, and on and on, especially if money is also involved. When a subset of males have to use sex as a weapon - or as a means for money and income, then those individuals merely prove they are inherently inferior and broken, which means they also have no real power; that's why they resort to taking it from little children, vulnerable women, other males and even animals. Rapists are primarily lashing out at other males and a male culture in which they feel disempowered, taking a "prize" from those males higher up the vertical hierarchy. And inferior in the hierarchy they very are, since 98% of society is. A canine pack is neither a democracy nor filled with alphas; the U.S. engrains it into the mind of males at the time of their birth and throughout their lifetime that they and all males are alpha. The bright spot in the world is that there are societies where a the majority of males do not heavily rely on physical violence against the weak to prove their manhood. Sadly, the U.S. is not one of those societies and likely never will be.

If I remember correctly, there are a very large amount of rapes victims that are men, that never report the crime. Why you might ask? Because it's seen as something that doesn't happen.

Male on male rape has historically been shrouded in secrecy due to the stigma men associate with being raped by other men. According to psychologist Dr. Sarah Crome, fewer than one in ten male-male rapes are reported. As a group, male rape victims reported a lack of services and support, and legal systems are often ill-equipped to deal with this type of crime.

Several studies argue that male-male prisoner rape, as well as female-female prisoner rape, might be the most common and least-reported forms of rape, with some studies suggesting such rapes are substantially more common in both per-capita and raw-number totals than male-female rapes in the general population.

Rhoids....you are a complete dolt....that's not the definition of homosexuality by far, you'd know that if you bothered to read a book every once in a while.

GEE!... maybe it's actually how HOMOSEXUALITY IS DEFINED GENIUS!!!!!!!

I hope you've had time to think about that remark. No orientation is defined by rape. If a gay man rapes a woman, but still loves and is attracted to other gay men, does that make him straight?

As long as *some* people can't acknowledge the universe of difference between a loving, intimate act between two consenting adults, meant to strengthen and solidify their relationship and commitment...and the violent, forcible, attack of rape...then you won't be able to accept the fact that straight men can and do rape other men.

No, no, no - homosexuality is all about what watch he owns. That is it. Sure.

When you have to invent a viewpoint before you can refute it, you've lost the argument.

Rape is not the same thing as lovemaking. It's not about sexual desire. It's not about sex at all. Sex is just the most humiliating and shameful way to harm someone else, when it is used as a weapon. You know what they say in the military...."this is my rifle...this my gun..."

I know it's a bit more complex than just defining everyone with very simplistic, black and white terms....and that might be difficult for some people. Some men are physically aroused by power. Those are the men who rape. It's a deviance. They will rape either gender, because it's not the gender that is exciting them, it's the dominance.

My gosh, for thouands of years we have had homo. men on this planet.

There have been a range of orientations as long as there have been humans. That would be millions of years.

For thousands of years homo. has been viewed in a negative way.

Since the bible was written and spread like a virus. So...for less than an eyeblink in the history of mankind.

For thousands of years, societies that accept homo. have fallen into nothing.

Wow. Every single society that accepted marriage has fallen too. That's the nature of societies...they rise and fall. That's like saying ever since we learned the earth orbits the sun, people have been getting sick and dying. There is no connection.

And just now, just in the USA, we are the only ones who "know" how to describe this group of people?

What are you talking about? This country is the most bigoted against homosexuals of all the industrialized Western nations. We are the most backwards.

Give me a break. I am sure msnbc will delete this post (due to my use of the "offensive" abbreviation)

So you are aware that it's offensive, but have chosen to use it anyway. Interesting.

because it is not what they agree with. If it were up to msnbc, we would all pay huge taxes to support this group of people.

Support them? What a joke! Do some research. They are probably supporting you.

This is gay rape. This is not about power any more than a bank robbery is about power or a knife fight is about power.

It's not about SEX anymore than a bank robbery or a knife fight is. It's ALL about power and control...otherwise, why not seduce instead of rape?

This is about what these people believe in. That is why they do this.

Sorry but the FACT is that it is mostly straight guys doing it. It's what THEY do.

They think they are right.

They think they are good.

They think they belong.

And they are right. Rapists...not so much.

Sorry.

You should be...but it's pretty clear you aren't.

No.

They do not.

Luckily....this is not something you get to decide. You are free to be prejudiced and refuse to face the facts all you want. But you don't have any "power" to determine how other people are perceived and treated by anyone except yourself. Your way of thinking is dying off. You can choose to educate yourself, so that you don't believe all these ridiculous lies, or you can continue to disparage others in order to feel better about yourself. It won't make any difference to the rest of the world....you will only marginalize yourself.

No, it doesn't 'prove' that at all within the combat scenario. The issue discussed is of peers, albeit those in more senior positions at times, raping others within their ranks. Rape in combat is an entirely different scenario, and their is very little documented evidence that it has occurred historically towards male combatants. One would probably have to reference T. E. Lawrence's Seven Pillars Of Wisdom' as one of the few instances of a male claiming to have been raped while a prisoner, and even that tale has been called into question by many scholars aware of Lawrence's penchant for creative license where the truth was concerned. The rape of female civilians, however, is a very well documented aspect of the historical record regarding invading forces.

"The rape of female civilians, however, is a very well documented aspect of the historical record regarding invading forces."

Exactly...women have been subjected to rape in time of war since the beginning of time so they should be allowed to take up arms with men and fight on the front lines if they so chose. Many women will be subjected to rape during a time of war rather they are soldiers or not. I am sure that any female soldier knows that rape is a bigger danger to her than any of her male counterparts and she is probably willing to take that risk...that is what makes her a good soldier.

Women have survived war time rapes for centuries, Jewish women and other women persecuted during the nazi regime survived concentration camps, the German women had to suffer through the brutality of the Russians after the Nazi regime fell, Bosnian women suffered greatly at the hands of the serbs...so bringing up female civilian rape just confirms to me that women should have the right to take up arms and fight.

Russian women fought in WWII on the front lines then they were given medals later on for producing children I get so tired of this let's protect the woman crap...women can do what is necessary to survive...just like any man.

And if you actually think male prisoners have not been raped by other males then you are truly naive...just because nobody reports it, does not mean it does not happen. Look at the Abu Grhraib torture and prison abuse that was committed by male and female soldiers...just because there was no penetration does not mean it was not a form of rape. Most men that I had conversations with after that went public called the guys involved nothing more than a bunch of pervs...so even they considered it rape.

If some women can pass the tests necessary to become a combat soldier then they should be allowed to take the position in the armed forces that they deserve and desire.

Oidtt, well said.

Um, yeah, 1., 2., 3. = that about covers the broadest level of rape/rape culture. Thanks for grasping the obvious.

1. It's a documentary. 2. It's not denigration-it's truth telling. 3. About men raping women and men. 4. Not doing anything to stop it.

You should have got your justice through the UCMJ and/or the IG

You are completely missing the entire point of why the subjects of this film told their story --

THEIR JUSTICE HAS NOT HAPPENED THROUGH THOSE AVENUES!

When the course of action that should help doesn't do the job, using the media in whatever form you can to make waves is precisely the next best avenue for calling attention to the problem.

The IG is the last place you should go with a problem. The IG is a tool of the Command. The IG is there to insure that the Command does what is "right" and that "right" is how to protect the Command.

If you are having legit problems, see a civilian attorney that deals with the military legal system. If you have no money, contact your congressman, but DO NOT trust the military command to provide justice. Commanders are interested in kissing the asses of their commanders so that they do not get a bad Officer Evaluation Report and losing any chance of promotion and then being forced out of the military.

gfs: you make some very good points. However, when you said, " have the victims come forward promptly" , it seems you don't realize the horrendous affect rape has on it's victims: they often cannot come forward, as they are not believed, and are further traumatized by the reactions of others. Then they have to testify. Read more, you are on the right track...you just need to learn more about why rape victims are terrified to report rape. Keep up the insightful attitude!

But what seems to be different in the military is that over half of the victims are men. I don't have any statistics, but we only very rarely hear about men being raped in the civilian world, so I'd have a hard time imagining that it's anywhere near that percentage. Since that's the case, these guys certainly have an argument that the film is remiss in reporting what's actually going on.

Are you sure you are not related to Jerry Sandusky's wife?

I served in the Navy during Vietnam, mostly on Yankee Station, and we had some pretty tough guys on the ship, many draftees. I have no doubts at all, if anyone had been raped, the rapist would not have made it back to the states. A rapist being thrown overboard at night; it's a 99.99% chance no witness would report it.

For those who are astonished or who don't believe that this is occurring, that men are being accused of raping men, and thinking (still) that it is a result or function of sexual orientation or gratification, please stop. This is not about the turn-on that comes from sex--it is about the turn-on that comes from power and the abuse of that power. The numbers of rapes--of both men AND women--demonstrate that this isn't an isolated set of circumstances. Ten thousand men, and nine thousand women is a higher percentage of women who suffer this abuse, but the effects on the men are no less devastating. It is NOT about sexual gratification--it IS about control, and is a crime perpetrated by those who feel they are unable to exert control any other way.

I'm a little tired of that old saw about how rape has nothing to do with sex. Of *course* it has to do with sex. The prime motivator may have more to do with power and control, but rape is also about sexual gratification. There are plenty of other ways to control and abuse people that have nothing to do with sex, without the possibility of going to jail. After all, some people express their power and control by withholding sex. It's all tangled up together.

Not a bizzaro world. Just a hidden world that's beginning to be exposed.

I think there is a lot of misinformation about this subject.

1.) Is rape often more about power and control than sex? Perhaps, I wouldn't know I don't rape people.

2.) Are men who are raped less likely to tell anyone about it? Of course. That doesn't mean we can assume that it's happening everywhere.

3.) Are rape accusations a powerful tool to establish POWER and CONTROL? Absolutely, how ironic.

There are so many professional victims, particularity from feminist that would have you believe just about every man is a supporter of rape, even if unknowingly. The reason I find it so hard to believe that male on male rape is rampant, or even common, is that it doesn't fit the psychology of the people who serve. If you haven't been in the military, then you wouldn't understand.

The commands are rumor mills. If somebody catches wind that you might even be slightly bi-curious you would be ostracized and harassed. That in itself is a real problem, but also a problem that makes these claims that men are raping men in these weird power trips very unlikely.

The way this could be happening is if we liken it to hazing where a group carry out their actions planned like a military mission with extreme secrecy. If that's the case we are talking about military rape gang conspiracies. Still how these would form is beyond me. "Hey Smith, lets grab Joe and f*ck him in the @ss, no homo."

The prime motivator may have more to do with power and control, but rape is also about sexual gratification.

Wrong. Rape is about sexual humiliation, not gratification.

oh my god is your icon a confederate maple leaf?
that explains the sheer stupidity of your comment

I don't think anyone is calling the victim a homosexual. It is the rapist who chooses to have sex with another man who is a homo.

Bill is an idiot.

No, I've never experienced male-male rape but I do understand the human mind very well and I can see why the rapist (esp prior to the Repeal of 'Don't Ask, Don' Tell) would say they did it for 'power'. I would have loved to witness that court-martial so I could observe his body language while he was outlining his justification. Don't all guilty people try to avoid taking 100% responsibility?

Rape is premeditated. Straight men don't contemplate having sex with other men and become aroused. Even if he were 'straight' and truly did it for 'power' and managed to become aroused solely by the thought of said 'power', in the aftermath he is newly-minted Gay/Bi ® by definition.

Rape is premeditated. A truly straight man couldn't contemplate having sex with another man and become aroused. Even if he were 'straight' and truly did it for 'power' and managed to become aroused solely by the thought of 'power', in the aftermath he is newly-minted Gay/Bi ® by definition.

Newflash for ya - rape is not necessarily premeditated. More news: a man contemplating rape, whether premeditated or instantaneously, is focused on control, power, and humiliation/denigration - not the sexual orientation of himself or his victim(s). As to your last assertion, wherein you attempt to apply a label to a rapist as being gay or bi, you insult the thousands of GLBT citizins in our country. In short, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Newflash for ya - rape is not necessarily premeditated. More news: a man contemplating rape, whether premeditated or instantaneously, is focused on control, power, and humiliation/denigration - not the sexual orientation of himself or his victim(s). As to your last assertion, wherein you attempt to apply a label to a rapist as being gay or bi, you insult the thousands of GLBT citizins in our country. In short, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Well why don't you ask a gay man what he thinks?

'Not necessarily' premeditated? Sane humans are totally conscious of what they've done, what they're doing, and what they are ever going to do. 'Power' is an feeling someone gets AFTER the deed is done. It's an effect, not a cause. So, unless they're a frequent-raper, they wouldn't even know that emotion was coming. And I think I'm more qualified to discuss what arouses a male than a "Cathy". Like I said, ask a gay man if he thinks a man that rapes another man (and still has access to women) is totally straight.

As to your last assertion, wherein you attempt to apply a label to a rapist as being gay or bi, you insult the thousands of GLBT citizins in our country.

And you speak for all of them, huh? Didn't know they had a spokesmanwomanperson

Squeal like a pig. lol

I love it! Liberals saying "stomp out rape" LOL! It's already illegal and if you rape and are convicted you do 20+ years in prison.

What's next? "Stomp out murder" LMFAO!

Rarely is a rapist sentenced to twenty years. Most sentences in my area are less than 5 years and most are out within 2 years. Really not, lmao.

Kj,

You must live in liberal San Francisco or NYC where they let rapists go free. Here in good, ole Florida, they get 20+ years.

Bobster says: I love it! Liberals saying "stomp out rape" LOL! It's already illegal and if you rape and are convicted you do 20+ years in prison. What's next? "Stomp out murder" LMFAO!

I say give me a break, Bobster: No, we're never going to stomp out rape in the world at large. But it should be possible to institute a broad no-tolerance policy within the closed ranks of our military forces.

I suggest you brush up on your reading comprehension. And what's this ranting about "liberals?" Should I infer you believe that "conservatives" don't care about this issue? Also, sorry to say, your belief that 20+ years in prison is standard for a rape conviction is flat wrong.

Ty,

"This is not funny or a joke"

I dunno but some gay guy getting gang-raped is sorta funny. lol

We can only hope it should happen to you, and then you will be able to come back and tell us how funny it was.

Couldn't agree more. I always urge people to go to the "State Health Facts" website and see the disease rates for each gender (heart, cancer, diabetes...etc). There is a side by side comparison. Then look at the mortality rates as well.

Men are diagnosed at much higher rates than women and significantly more men die in nearly EVERY category for every medical condition in EVERY state!! Yet, NO representation form the public.

Absolutely. It kills less people, partially because it's so much easier to test for!

That's why I never donate specifically to Breast Cancer Research. Just Cancer Research. Cancer is cancer. Overgrown, mutated cells. Sadly, I don't think we'll have a cure any time soon. I don't like the way accommodations are doled out to the squeakiest wheel.

"What a shock. Men will always be marginalized in this and other matters for the same reason that the image of the Pink Ribbon is familiar to every inhabitant of the Earth -- even though prostate cancer kills exponentially more men than breast cancer kills women."

Apparently, you are uninformed that until the 20th Century, almost all medicine in the US, including treatment of the female body was based on studies of the male anatomy. I'm pretty sure that no man has ever experienced a pregnancy, ovarian cyst, or cervical cancer.

I'm also willing to bet that your sense of "fairness" would not have been to push for equal studies of the female anatomy by a medical community that at that time would not accept women into medical universities

It's a man's world, and always has been.

Your anger is leading you to project; you haven't the slightest notion what my sense of fairness would or would not lead me to conclude. In any event, my comment was directed at an issue that has arisen in 2013, as opposed to one of historical interest; I'm sorry you find that confusing.

You're right on, Annie. The same goes for those men who actually climax during the act of murder...power, control, dominance, deep seated hatred of women. They don't even have to be anywhere near a female's genitals, their penis is still in their pants but the very act of strangling a woman, stabbing, etc. Usually men get 'off' on acts of murder that are more intimate...ie. not involving a gun but using his hands, face to face, looking in their eyes.

Rape is a crime of violence in which the penis is used as a weapon, the penetration an act of dominance and control.....for either sex.

But rape is not always committed by men!! Female rapists go under the radar...as usual. Women rape little boys, little girls and MEN!! It happens. Although not in the same numbers, I will grant that. But, it happens.

A good friend of mine from junior high school was raped. He was barely 13 and had hit puberty very young and he looked very grown...facial hair and everything. He was raped by three high school girls and it even made the news. Nothing happened to any of them and all charges were eventually dropped.

As a result, he was verbally tortured by most of the kids all the way through high school...specifically GIRLS. He was called a homosexual for reporting the rape (even though he wasn't), accused of having a small penis, a liar...etc.

Again, this is pretty much par for the course when it comes to male rape.

Jeez, three chicks huh? How cool! hey ladies, want to tie me up, make me write bad checks, flog me and tell me I'm a naugty boy, who weee. What a way to suffer from propriatism!

and that is why femal on male rape is never reported

Yep, the great state of Indiana. But aside form the sexual aspect for these women and potential sexual "experience" for that young man...these women ALSO relished the "power" over this man. Women LOVE power and they didnt just get sexual with him.

They held him down, hit him, pulled on his hair, his genitals, bit him and overall I guess it was a very rough experience. None of the girls names were made public until years later when they reached adulthood. I mean, everyone knew who they were. But, the girls suffered no social backlash. Still, as I stated, as a young male, he DID because he was expected to LIKE it.

Where are the clowns pointing out that because these men were getting all worked out and beefy, possibly strutting around in just their boxers and even showering naked *gasp* that they were just asking for it?

Never mind... just realized it's too early and I'm not awake. Obviously the number of active-duty women is much lower than the number of active-duty men. I'll shut up and go back to sleep now.

It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong, especially in this day and age of constant blame shifting.

I salute you sir.