Such a terrible situation - I wish parents would be more supportive, but alas, this is now a one way road she has taken. Trying to support yourself and a newborn at 16 years old with no one to help you?

The decision to have a child is always a serious one. There is no guaranty of support from a partner or other friends or family. Many things in life aren't easy, some hard things are worthwhile.

Not that I am condoning the parents - however, it may be that their reason for pushing an abortion is that they know they will end up responsible for this baby, both monetarily and emotionally. Perhaps they know their daughter is not mature enough to handle a baby. Don't judge hearing only one side of the story.

SO this is in the same state that is so against abortions that they want to defund Planned Parenthood? No matter what the parents reasoning the emotional damage that will be done by this is huge. Home live must not be so great to start with, look at the case. She is living with her grandparents and mom invited the grandparents to the BAR to discuss this. That tell me a lot about the parents. I home the courts run in the girls favor

This is one of those things that goes along with parental notification. She's underage. If she destroyed something, the parents get held legally responsible, therefore the door should also swing the other way -the parents are the ultimate authority in her life.

In this case, there will certainly be enough stalling taking place that they will pass the point of 'no elective abortion' and the girl will get her way.

If the girl wins and she keeps the baby, holidays and family reunions are going to be a bit difficult.

Have no idea what the circumstances are - tho, go ahead...she can have the baby. She deserves no help - certainly no monetary help...no parental babysitting. She opts for motherhood and every single thing we 'adults' deal with. It is called life - you choose your path...she chose hers. Let her go - make her own way - physically - monetarily. Sound tough? Yup. It's called life. Every single one of us is accountable. No sympathy here. Not a shred.

See post 18.1 for a court transcript. This girl has had FOUR abortions and she is just 16! I do not think this girl is intellectual enough to take care of a child! She's been pregnant 5 times at 16? Should she not have figured out how that happens by now?

Rocket Dog,

What you describe of no help, etc. was and is quite common. Parents were kicking their pregnant teenage girls out of the house long before Roe v. Wade., and it still continues. (I worked with a woman who had been kicked out when she was 15.) We have a "Grandma's House" here in town for such situations.

I am rather surprised that the subject of adoption hasn't been posted by anyone else here on the board, yourself included. Some girls do decide on their own to give their babies lives and a new set of parents. Unfortunately, sometimes the grandparents or the biological father of the baby step in and refuse to let the baby be adopted, even when it is in the best interest of the baby.

Exactly Rocket Dog! I hope this child will go get a job, an apartment, and be responsible for her life and the baby's and not put that burden on her parents. She wants a baby then apparently she wants the responsibilities to go with it. If I was her parent I'd help her get an apartment, pay the security and one months rent, help her move in and say that's the baby gift from me. Now she has to find a job, get a car, health insurance and so on. Unless someone steps up to the plate and takes on the responsibility for her by providing everything she needs, the state in the end may take the baby from her by saying she is not able to care for the baby herself. This child is clueless.

she will win in court, at 16 she will be allowed to make her own decision; after the baby is born, she will be eligible for many child care grants, at 17 she will also be eligible for rent subsidy, food stamps, and a host of other government benefits; if she has been pregenat 4 times before, she will also qualify for SSI probably for life, since she will be judged as mentally deficient.

it her body if she want the baby make her do it on her own, she needs to see that mom and dad can't fix it .

If she can't pay her way and expect the parents to pay for her screw up and also take care of the kid, then the parents have the right to do what they are doing. Don't go have a good time and expect someone else to pay for it!!!!!!

the whole point of roe vs wade is choice, her choice, she chose to keep it, thats a protected right, most states recognize a girl as a legal adult once she becomes a mother, she has the same rights as any mother does under roe vs wade

I usually don't comment on articles, but I have to say, if you read the article linked in 18.1 you would see that DENISE has had 4 abortions. Denise is the mom, not the daughter.

Enma3... read the article again. The MOTHER had 4 abortions, not the DAUGHTER.

They legally can. It is called Emancipation of Minors...

Then again, one bad CHOICE leads to a second bad CHOICE.. and you suggest a third...

This is clearly a private matter and should never see a court let alone the media.

Regardless, it is her CHOICE, I hope she chooses well and it works out for her, her baby and her family.

sounds like this girl needs a chastity belt

edit,

Talontbo,

sounds like this girl is incapable of making wise choices.

Too bad the mother wasn't slipped an abortion pill.

The parents are exactly right. It will be they themselves that will ultimately end up being financially responsible for the kid and probably end up raising the kid because the courts will see to this.

It's funny how society insists this girl is a minor and subject to her parents authority in all things except abortion. For example, she can't even get a tattoo without parental permission. At the very least the one that caused this pregnancy should be identified and made financially culpable.

The girl hasn't been pregnant 4 times previously. Her MOTHER is the one who had 4 abortions. Read the other article.

Let her have the baby if she doesn't want an abortion. But at 16 she is hardly able to support a child in any way and might consider putting the baby up for adoption. There are thousands of families wanting to adopt babies.....families who can afford to give them a home. It won't be her parents stuck paying for that child, it will be the taxpayers.

Amending my comment: After reading further into this....the girls parents should have NO say in anything....mom and maternal grandmom are frightening.....dad is a violent psychopath....they all need to be locked away somewhere. Though I do still believe the baby should be give up for adoptiong...this girl has a long road ahead of her as it is with those horrid parents and her mothers mother in the picture.

FRIGHTENING future grandparents.

Hope they will be totally out of the picture.

As the parent of a teen, the girl hasn't lived at home for over 7 months...why? Either the teen is horrible or the parents are...either way, bringing another person into this mess, especially one a teen cannot currently afford to feed, is not optimal. Adoption? Is the grandma who is currently caring for the teen now to take care of an infant AND a defiant teen? Great.

Well the do right to lifers will get there way, this girl will have the baby, Her parents will have nothing to do with her and she will live on Welfare. Most likely the baby will die young because this girl will not want to take care of it. Does anyone know who the daddy is? The next thing we will here is the People will start crying about her living off welfare and want to cut her off. So we will have a little girl living in the streets with a baby. Better to let her have the child and watch them both starve to death living on the Streets of Houston. That's your right to life Option for you.

Eileen - the teen is horrible? you do not know the situation of this family. why are you so quick to degrade a child? i find THAT horrible.

Judge not others lest be judged yourself, why throw away two lives or destroy one for an immature act of poor judgement? You can all cry now, because your parents didn't abort you.

They are both welcome with us, be glad to foster both.

Adoption would be nice, but there are something like 250,000 children in the adoption system now that nobody wants. It's cheaper to buy a kid overseas.

Enma3

Not that I am condoning the parents - however, it may be that their reason for pushing an abortion is that they know they will end up responsible for this baby, both monetarily and emotionally. Perhaps they know their daughter is not mature enough to handle a baby. Don't judge hearing only one side of the story.

According to the story the girl has been living with her grandparents for months before she even got pregnant. So if the parents aren't even responsible for their own daughter anymore I doubt they'd have any concerns about being responsible for their grandchild.

Honestly this lawsuit is little more than a waste of tax payer's money. No doctor in the country could preform an abortion on an unwilling patient regardless of her age.

I'm pro-choice.....the girl has made her CHOICE! The girls should be removed and put into foster care for her own safety and the safety of the baby she's chosen to have.

Hooray for the girl wanting to keep her baby!!! There are to many young girls who at the drop of a hat get an abortion!!!

I think that the parent's "intentions" are good, they're going about it the wrong way. They probably don't want their daughter to have to go through the burden of having a child at such a young age let alone the very real possibility of the child's father running from the scene because he's scared.
I realize that children these days are experimenting with sex at an earlier age than the majority of us did. It seems they've become so desensitized to the idea of what sex should be/ mean that it's just as casual to them as playing video games (admittedly more fun). Better parenting could be to blame. Who knows what the issue may be. In any situation, the teen is old enough that she's not just another victim. She knew exactly what she was doing 9 weeks ago and the risks involved with having unprotected sex. She should take whatever consequences come her way for her "concious" decision.

This girl will ruin her life by keeping the baby. She will have to drop out of school. And if the parents don't want to support her, and the grandparents also say no, she will have to live in a shelter or group home.

chuck-2111043

Better to let her have the child and watch them both starve to death living on the Streets of Houston.

When you have to make wild assumption based on utterly nothing to make your point, obviously you never had a valid point to begin with.

she wants the child well to the parents i say if i were you would say go ahead

let her have the kid but you ensure that she deal with all the aspects she will soon find out about for having a baby as a teen and losing out on fun times in life

let her have the child and you dont babysit the child, you visit with her and leave when she wants free time or a break - hey you dont get a break from kids unless you call it school

sounds like shes not married or engaged so let her deal with the childs father and his take on the situation as well as his family. hopefully he believes its his or else he will be filing for a dna test

sue the state to take care of the child financially from birth til 18 cause you know they want the birth but they dont want the life when they have to pay for it off the govs money

speak with the grandmother because it sounds like she feels independent. well let her truly enter the world of independence and pay her own bills. let her claim emancipation so she can get an apartment, a job and all the other wonderful things that adults have to deal with since she wants to act responsibly

dont let her guilt you to feel like you did anything wrong in raising her or directing her cause teenagers are great at coercion and guilt tactics.

let her understand that if she wants to give up childhood, here is one of the most interesting and challenging experiences for a female.

to her grandmother i say if i were here, tell her she has to find an apartment and get on a housing list, find a job, but welcome her to the world of independence

letb her know that no males can visit the home and that she should take parenting classes as soon as reasonably allowable.

since her parents didnt take her to get an abortion all the parents did were to suggest for her to have one, realistically, there really isnt a case. if someone tells me to jump off a roof but i dont and i stay alive i can scream all day that they told me to do it but i didnt so now what.

if i were the parents i would find out what the laws in texas werre and all i would have to say as the parent is, texas, she is a ward of the court so you take her we waive our rights as her parents

let the state take care of her and see how she likes it... everything is bigger in texas

I may not agree that the parents are trying to force the abortion, but I do believe that children shouldn't have children. If she keeps the child then the funds should be contigant on school and if not school no money.

She won't be raising this baby on her own, are you kidding, she is set! food card, medicare! government housing, childcare, There's all kinds of programs that us taxpayers pay for, and yet this is the message we send girls, it's ok to be selfish. Government will pay for her to become a stay at home mom! go ahead and have it! its the norm! it's sick

You people are all so negative. 33yrs ago, my 16 yr old girlfriend had a child from me. We have been married 32yrs and 2 more children. Life wasn't easy, but we survived the tough times. I'm glad I didn't listen to any of you as positive role models. It sounds to me the girl wants to except the responsibility for her actions. Something most adults can't do. Hopefully the father steps up to plate and excepts his responsibility also. May God bless her and her child.

It's the kid's choice. Nor is there any cause for a lawsuit here, as the parents have no legal authority to force her to have an abortion against her will. Any threat to her or the baby is a matter for protective services, not a lawsuit. It's a crazy pro-life organization trying to get some publicity they can spin.

All,

You know the parents of the girl could end up with this child, then another, and maybe another, then spending their sayings and or retirement raising this and maybe other children... Not knowing the whole story and for sure what type of people the other 'grandparents' are, I tend to take the side of the girls parents at this time. Evidently the other 'grandparents' are not to keen on the idea of a child for their son but, the story is sorta mute on this after her parents mention giving her the 'Abortion Pill'.

I will add this though. For all you crazy, anti-choice people who support parental consent being needed for girls under 18 who want abortions...

Well if your parents can force you to be pregnant, they should be able to force you to NOT be pregnant also. Somehow I don't think you'll like that quite as much.

Raven~ Eileen said either the teen is that horrible OR the parents are. She wasn't jumping to conclusions. I agree with her; what are the circumstances that the kid is living with grandparents?

She is 16 and for 7 months has been living with her grandmother? So who does the support now? She is 16 and doesn't have the sense to use contraception if she is having sex? Something is telling me that this girl has no idea of life and bringing a child into this world. Is this a ploy hoping that the guy that knocked her up is so in love with her that he will marry her? Think again dolly. This guy got what he wanted and now i bet he sides with the parents. Another kid brought into the world to live on the taxpayers money.

CBurroughs

You know the parents of the girl could end up with this child, then another, and maybe another, then spending their sayings and or retirement raising this and maybe other children...

The parent's of this girl aren't even raising her! They've pawned her off on the grandparents so if they aren't raising their own child what makes you think they'd end up raising any grandchildren??

If parents do not wish their daughters to get pregnant, then why don't they just get them on birth control when they are around 12 years old? That may seem young to most people unless you've ever clicked through your TV and seen that Maury show with those teen and even pre-teen girls saying how they have had sex with 20 or more adults. I would say get the one that is placed under the skin in the arm so they don't have to worry about remembering to take pills. Having children is a wonderful thing, but not when it is a child having a child - they lose so much of their childhood.

But at the same time I also think that parents are not taking the time to educate their children about sex and pregnancy and the life-long obligation they would have for a child if they got pregnant. It seems like parents are too busy with themselves to teach their children and leave the matter up to the schools, TV and their kid's friends. You know, the same school systems that think if they prohibit kissing and holding hands that it will prevent sex?!

If she refuses the abortion the father should be off the hook for child support

Good for you Gary, but you (and I) came from a different generation. One that was taught how to accept responsibility(s). Kids these days don't want to work, don't want to accept the responsibilities of their stupidity and laziness. Just want to float on the taxpayer's dime. If these two kids can't accept their plight, God help them, cause they are going to drain the taxpayers along with the rest of their ilk. Hopefully, if they have said they both want to parent this child, they will get out there, get jobs, and begin to plan their lives to accommodate the baby. However, it doesn't look good for a 16 year old male. Who's going to hire him other than as a pizza delivery driver or at McDonald's or some other fast food place paying minimum. It will be a dirty cycle of no job, baby, wife (possibly) and no other income, no high school diploma(s) etc.

If I were this girl's parents, I would be filing for her emancipation. I wouldn't be waiting for her to do it. I would do as the father said, remove her from the insurance policy. She better start looking at how she is going to support this baby, what she's going to do about her education, and where she's going to live, with the grandparents she's been living with, or with the paternal grandparents? I for one will tell you, you can never go home again, and living with grandparents, as a "family" there's gonna be disagreements on how to parent. I hope she can live with that -- it's very stressful and depressing. My guess is the father will be submissive to HIS parents so there won't be any support from him.

I have to say that I personally am against abortion. With that being said, the real issue here that many are not focused on has nothing to do with abortion. Remember, agree with it or not, abortion IS legal. The arguement here is whether or not a parent has the right to force their minor aged child to submit to a legal medical procedure. This case has the potential to make significant changes in our society, and what control / authority parents have over their minor aged children in many other areas. This is a HUGE "slippery slope." We'll see ....

choices? you people dont want choices for all, you want control over all. if i made a choice to kill myself, would that be legal to do? no! if i was 13 and made a choice to get a tattoo or go to a tanning salon or any number of activities deemed for adults, would that be okay? no! there are lots of choices we dont get to make due to punishment even though those choices only effect the individual and not anyone else.

how is allowing a pregnant female to abort her unborn baby legal but killing oneself is not? so its okay to kill a defenseless developing life but not your own? see how backwards you people are? Roe vs Wade is unconstitutional based on the 14th amendment of equal protection, you do not get to have a choice when involving another human life.

i dont think the parents have any right to kill another human regardless of where it is, its a sad case of kids having kids with no parental guidance to correct the problem so we screw 'em even more through the courts. the problem is statistically the juvenile will get government assistance at tax-payer expense and she will never learn a lesson and probably have more kids with no supportive fathers. its a cycle of destruction that society glamors and our government encourages, its all about control and manipulation.

Backcountry,

We do not know why she is with Grandma for sure, and I would say the parents still have alot to say about her if their in it this deep. Sounds like Grandma is pretty 'Mute' about it and I doubt that she wants a baby around the house to raise... Of Course like I said alot is left out of the story, I just said with the info at hand, I tend to side with the parents... I like everyone else on this thread have interjected some of my own thoughts, even you.

My take is that the grandparents are against the abortion or they are supporting her choice as the only way she would have gotten the information from the meeting between parents and grandparents would be the grandparents told her what her parents wanted them to do. As she has been living with her grandparents I take it they are supporting her, not her parents. If they are supporting her choice and she has been living with them they probably have also decided to support her and the baby until she can support herself.

Sixteen, what wonderful age! I remember being soooo much smarter than my parents, right up to the time I was out on my own. That's when reality hit me right between the eyes! What do you mean I have to PAY for a roof over my head? I have to PAY for food, gas, insurance and utilities? This is outrageous! I've decided to be an adult! Doesn't that mean I'm free from all those nasty rules?

She has a right to keep the child. She also has the RESPONSIBILITY to clothe, feed and house it. The FATHER shares this responsibility and should be forced to do so. Not from a distance, they should live in the same house and change diapers, deal with all of the problems that come with having children. Only then will we see changes in the way things have been going with our youth.

I don't want my tax dollars being spent to support some idiot child that feels she can slough off her responsibilities onto others simply because she has difficulties keeping her legs closed.

SARAH .......this is going to be a mess , any court ruling will be a double edged sword that cuts both the pro-choice & pro-life camps. If the court sides with the child , then it must also side with the child next time when the child wants an abortion & parents say no , likewise , if it sides with the parents & forces an abortion , then next time , a child that wants an abortion & parents say no , the child can be forced to carry to term. Also , what about insurance , if it enters into the factor & be sure that it will , can a parents insurance be used for an abortion against their will , or to bring a baby into the world against the future grandparents wishes? This could end up being a bigger landmark case than roe vs wade., Then the decision has to be made , at what age is the cutoff point , what if its a 13 yr old that wants an abortion or to keep a child , are the future grandparents wishes of no concern? Sarah , this isnt a prolife attempt at publicity. Anyone with a small amount of foresight can see the future ramifications of any court decision & judging by past experiences , pro-choice usually wins. You need to stop seeing a constant hidden right wing agenda behind everything. It could just as easily be said that pro-choice is using this to forward their agenda. Some things are actually no more than what they seem.

Oops! My bad, I was skimming the article and it bounced back and forth so much between people, that I did not see it was the mother who had four abortions by 16.
Although, the daughter should still know better having her mother as an example! I still think the daughter is too immature and has not thought this through. The parents are keeping the baby with no plan in mind about how to monetarily or emotionally handle caring for a baby. I think the mother-to-be is looking for someone to love her. She most likely has no clues that newborns initially just take love, they don't give it until they are a little older. Nothing sweeter than a newborn, but they do take a lot of care!
Sounds more like a case of parents, grandparents and daughter are all irresponsible!

@ Sarah - You wrote:

"I will add this though. For all you crazy, anti-choice people who support parental consent being needed for girls under 18 who want abortions..."

So Sarah, people that do not agree with abortion are all crazy? Particularly in this case where abortion is being used simply as a "method of birth control." It amazes me that so many people have no hesitation about killing an unborn child simply because some 16 year old went out one night and "made a little mistake." What an indictment of our society. I assume you believe that you are a "moral and just" person too ... LOL!!!!!! Ahhhh.... the far left ..... your logic would be amusing if it weren't so sad.

I would say that we don't know enough about this young woman's situation to make judgements about her choice to keep her baby. But the relevant word in that is "choice". I'm pro-choice and that includes the choice to keep her baby. No, her parents can't choose for her but, having made an adult choice this girl needs to be prepared to support herself and her child. As for the father of the baby... no, he's not off the hook. He helped create the baby and if it is born he is responsible at least financially. It sounds like its the parents who want to use abortion as belated birth control, not the girl. It's the whole law suit thing that bothers me. I agree with someone above who said she should have sought protective services. Law suit implies going after someone's money. I'd hate to think this a case of "baby as meal ticket". Anyway, we don't know enough to judge.

Back country. My point is clear. When pro lifers push girls like this to have a baby, they don't know who is going to raise it. In this case her parents are not going to help her. Maybe Grand Ma isn't able to either. So where will she go. None of the pro lifers are going to take here in and help her. So she will live in the streets or go on welfare, witch the Pro lifers are against also. Pro lifers don't want tax dollars used for Abortions. Well I don't the Government paying $500 K to raise these children. And guess what nether do you. So what is it you think is going to happen?

Stimulating,

None of that will happen, as this case will get tossed out. And if this isn't driven by a right wing, anti-choice agenda, please explain to me why a right wing, anti-choice organization is involved.

OObuck,

So Sarah, people that do not agree with abortion are all crazy?

No, crazy anti-choice people don't just simply disagree with abortion. I'm sure this will shock you, I disagree with abortion. At least I don't think I could ever have one. That doesn't make me anti-choice, as I'm still pro-choice. Just because I couldn't have one, that doesn't mean I have the right to tell others they shouldn't have one.

Crazy anti-choice people, are the people who try to force women to act the way they want them too. Personhood Amendments, defunding Planned Parenthood, screaming epithets at frightened women as they walk into a clinic and my personal favorite, transvaginal, government mandated ultrasounds. THAT'S anti-choice, to name a few.

Particularly in this case where abortion is being used simply as a "method of birth control.

Ahhh yes. Everyone who has an abortion is merely a slut or so completely stupid they didn't use contraception, and NONE of them care about the choice they are making or are agonizing over it.

It amazes me that so many people have no hesitation about killing an unborn child simply because some 16 year old went out one night and "made a little mistake."

The correct scientific term is fetus, but when has science ever stopped you.

I assume you believe that you are a "moral and just" person too .

Moral is subjective. And wow, there's sooo much morality in telling someone else how immoral they are.

hhhh.... the far left ..... your logic would be amusing if it weren't so sad.

Your logic would be amusing if it existed.

I was 17 when I became pregnant and 18 when my daughter was born. I graduated high school while I was pregnant, but put off going to post secondary. I live in Canada so we have a year to take off with our babies and I took that year and lived of unemployment to bond with my beautiful girl. I did not get much, but lived in subsidized housing and I made it work. I have also never received child support from her father. After a year I started looking for work a few things didn’t pan out and I ended up on welfare for about 2 months. I found a part time job in fast food and had to rely on grandparents to watch her in the evenings when the daycare was closed. After a few months I found another fast food job that was full time and all days, mon-fri. This meant not relying on the grandparents. I was still in subsidized housing and still had subsidized daycare as well as a couple other minor benefits. After a while I saved up some money and moved closer to my mother. I did not want to work in fast food anymore and quit my job to look for something in admin. I had enough money for 3 months. I did not want to go back on welfare. After getting close to the 4^th month of looking I finally found an office job. It was for the head office of a pizza chain. I ended up taking a bit less money than I was hoping, but it was something. My daughter was 5. It took me 2 more years and 2 more jobs to get to where I am now, not relying on any subsidies. That was 7 years ago. I am still lower middle class and still have to budget in order to afford certain things, but I do it on my own. I am proud and I do not mind paying taxes even if there are only 1 in 10 that are like me. I met a lot who live their life taking advantage of a system made to give a leg up. I do not have respect for those people, but they still deserve the small amount of money they get. For that 1 in 10 I wish you luck and never give up. It is well worth it to try for more.

Interesting, so many here know what is right and wrong. How old is the girl again? Means she is not an adult as of yet, "right?" The parents have the rights, the child does not. That means this should not even be going to court, "period."

I love it. The pro-choice side fighting against the choice of a 16 year old keeping her baby. Guess what, she made a choice and her parents are trying to take that choice away from her. Why aren't you out there with the pro-life contingency supporting this girl in her choice? Oh I forgot, if it is anything that the pro-life contingency agrees with, they must have an agenda and it must automatically be the wrong thing to do.

Actually Chuck pro-lifers are not pushing her to not have an abortion. She made the choice herself, they are just supporting her in her choice. But then that is what the pro-choice contingency is supposed to do but because the pro-lifers are on her side they want to accuse the other side of having an agenda.

The girl isn't old enough to be a mother or make rational decisions about parenting. She should have the abortion.

I can't even imagine a doctor being willing to do the abortion under those circumstances. Sorry, I disagree that a parent should be able to force her to abort her child.

Sarah , none of that will happen? What planet do you live on. Both sides are going to seek to exploit this situation & any action by the courts will have repercussions.Of course prolife is going to get involved as this benefits their agenda. But prochoice also sees that it will open doors for theirs also.

If the child is carried to term , the grandparents of the newborn are LEGALLY responsible for the care of their child & their grandchild , in spite of their wanting their daughter to abort it. This is an issue that cannot be swept under a rug as it has many legal ramifications & any kicking of this can down the street will be seen as such.

In reference to insurance, a parents insurance will not cover pregnancy health visits, trust me, I know. They will still cover other medical needs, just not the ones related to pregnancy. For all the harsh words towards this girl, have you ever thought that maybe it's against her core beliefs to abort the child? Just because her mom was fine with it doesn't mean this girl feels the same way. Just because she chooses to continue the pregnancy doesn't mean she will choose to keep the child. Many, many people want to adopt a baby. Ever wonder why there are so many couples waiting on babies? Because there are relatively few to adopt. Most children who are wards of the state are older than 1 year. Try to adopt a new born, damn hard to do, and usually involves years of waiting lists. If she wants this child to be adopted, chances are astronomical that it will have a good and loving home. If she decides to keep the child because of whatever reason, support (not necessarily monetary either) and kind words will help her more than all the tearing down. She's probably having the most stressful time of her life, pregnant at 16 (entirely her own fault), parents trying to force an abortion on her and also having to figure out just what to do when the baby comes along. I hope that whatever happens, she makes the decision that is best for her and the child. We, as a society, should be trying to uplift this child with positive words and actions, to help her make the proper decision for her life and the life of her child.

Not all lawsuits are about money, some are to make changes happen with out money being a factor.

I was pregnant at 15 had my first child at 16 and my second child when I was 17. I did get food stamps and cash aid while I finished high school as soon as I graduated I got a job got off the welfare and have not looked back my kids are now 16 and 15 years old and well cared for. My parents were always there for me. They were not giving me support in money or as built in baby sitters. My parents gave me the choice to keep my babies or give them up for adoption. With my first child I chose to keep him and when I got pregnant again I was not sure I could care for two kids and was leaning toward adopting her out. I sat down with my father and he said he could not handle me giving away his grandchild and that he would be there for me if I did choose to keep the baby so I chose to keep her. I do not believe in abortion I was raised you make your bed you lay in it. I was not going to kill an innocent child over the mistake I made. I raised those two kids on my own the father was no part of the picture after my daughter was born and he never gave me once red cent in support. If I could go back in time I would not change a thing. My kids are the best thing that has ever happened to me. They are my world and they are my life. I gave up the rest of my childhood to do what was best for my kids. I have always put them first. SO for all you saying a 16 year old cant care for a child you are all full of crap. I am living breathing proof that a 16 year old can care for a child and graduate high school and raise the child on her own. People can do what ever they put their mind to and I was determined to give my kids the best care and all the love in the world.

Funny how the Pro-Choicers say the parents should have the choice here because they will be financially responsible for the baby. If the same logic was used on welfare moms, the government would be able to force them to have abortions because the government is footing their bills.

you in fact brought up the same arguements that pro-choice will , inevitably , the courts will have to make a decision , if not now , then later , when the mother is 15 or 14 or 13 , this will not be let laid to rest without a decision.

Ive seen it far too much , any crack in any law , is poked at & poked at until something gives & both sides will be poking at this one.

What a messed up sh!t. The 16 yr old chick already made one bad decison, how do you even side with her people? Yep keep telling them kids that bad decisons are ok, but I bet none of you supporting her will pick up the bill, but will still complain when she can't figure out life.

Looks like Granny hasn't exactly been monitoring her charge very well, doesn't it. So, another Texas welfare baby is born, and all the pro-life folks high-five one another and absolve themselves of any responsibility to help this girl and her baby. After all, it's the 'life' that is important, not the 'quality of life.'

This child has rights!!!

This child also has no responsibility.

Get out the wallets, folks. You and I will be supporting this child and her child for at least 18 years. The new child will, statistically, be a burden on the system also.

And so the cyccle continues . . .

courts have already decided against parents in scientology cases where medical care was denied to children & they died. If a court says a child is too young to carry to term & parents force the child to carry to term & the mother dies , those parents can & will likely be charged with negligent homicide.

This is not a case that can be swept under the carpet for long , make no mistake about that & the legal ramifications of action or inaction will be wide reaching.

chuck-2111043

. So what is it you think is going to happen?

I don't think the mother and child are going to "starve to death living on the street". Are you standing by that statement or are you going to admit that it was gross exaggeration since you made no effort to defend it?

Stimulating,

No, inevitably the courts don't have to make a decision, because the parents can, and will, file a motion to get this dismissed. Here's why...

• There is no actual threat of a forced abortion, as doctors can not legally do that.
• The coerscion/harrassment, I hate to break this to you, isn't against the law in this case. Parents have the right to nag their children.
• That leaves the threat, which would fall under tortuous assault. Here's the problem with that claim. The R.E.K. threat wasn't made to the kid, it was made to the grandparents. It's hearsay, and to be considered an assault it needs to have been directed at the kid herself. You can't be guilty of a tortuous assault via third party.

If a court says a child is too young to carry to term & parents force the child to carry to term & the mother dies , those parents can & will likely be charged with negligent homicide

Correct, meaning that parents don't have the legal authority to force this girl into an abortion, ergo, no real threat.

It's a bunk lawsuit, brought for publicity reasons, and it has no real substance. Any attorney worth their salt could get this dismissed.

Pedestrian-in-SF

So, another Texas welfare baby is born, and all the pro-life folks high-five one another and absolve themselves of any responsibility to help this girl and her baby. After all, it's the 'life' that is important, not the 'quality of life.'

I suspect many poor and underprivileged people do feel that way. Perhaps we should just round them all up an euthanize them so as to put them out of their, and our, misery?? Or do you only apply this "logic" to the un-born??

Sarah , as i stated , any crack in any law will be exploited , it is a lawyers job to do so , what will happen when next child decides it wants an abortion & is 15 & parents say NO ,can the parents be forced to provide that abortion or fund it, you are only seeing 1 side of the coin. Even doing nothing is a decision, with ramifications.

Sarah , as i stated , any crack in any law will be exploited

Hence I said it was brought for publicity reasons. That does NOT however mean that it won't get thrown out.

it is a lawyers job to do so

And it's also a lawyers job to get it tossed.

, what will happen when next child decides it wants an abortion & is 15 & parents say NO

Take that up with the crazy anti-choice people attempting to enact parental consent laws. They're the ones trying to have this both ways here. As I said above, if you argue for the parents being allowed to force the pregnancy, they should be allowed to force the abortion. However, legally, that's not the case, only logically. See my above post for why.

I however am advocating for neither of those options.

Hey I got it. Let's force our child to kill her baby. We as a socity have really screwed up our values. More power to this young lady. To all of you that support killing the unborn. Shame on you. Your the first group to stand up and scream ban the gun when someone shoots a child yet it's ok to kill your babies as a form of birth control. Oh that's right it's a choice.

Sarah , rather , instead of implying you are not seeing both sides of this coin , you arent seeing the bigger picture , legal games are similar to chess & this game wont be over for yrs & yrs to come , there will be a decision & it will impact parents vs child rights , parents beliefs vs childs beliefs , wants of both parties, age of accountabilty & who ultimately is accountable or responsible & who will force what on whom & everyone will be a pawn to others agendas.

Stimulating,

I don't think you understand our legal system. When a case gets dismissed, there is no decision. It's thrown out. Only cases that are ruled on, which only happens if they don't get dismissed, impact our rights. I've already shown you why this will get thrown out. You haven't countered with any kind of precedent, argument or statute showing otherwise.

Either do so, or give up, because you're starting to embarrass yourself.

she should have thought of all the concequences of spreading her legs to some boy before she did it. Now she wants to have the baby, so she can do what with it? Dump when she cannot handle being or trying to be a momma. Her parents are trying to get a life for her and she don't want it. Feed her to the wolves!

for the posters on here bragging about how they did it all themselves yet admit to getting family support and gov't services....I'm sorry BUT that's not doing it on your own.....I'm glad your family and those gov't services were there for you but please give credit where it's due........

Hence I said it was brought for publicity reasons. That does NOT however mean that it won't get thrown out.

it is a lawyers job to do so

And it's also a lawyers job to get it tossed.

, what will happen when next child decides it wants an abortion & is 15 & parents say NO

There are some interesting issues about parenting in here, I think the main topic might not be the most interesting socially. What happens when a 15yo doesn't want to go to church anymore? Can they sue to be free of their parents requirement they attend? What if the parents are atheists and their 12yo wants to attend the church of a girl he has a crush on? Can he sue them to gain access to the services?

A bigger picture is a good idea, but this case IS moot. Killing a fetus by kicking a pregnant woman is a crime and so is strapping a woman to a table and performing an abortion against her will will be ruled as such.

Love your posts Sara, not always on topics I care to comment on, but your thoughts are always of interest even when I wildly disagree. Keep it up and don't let the b@&$#%!s get you down.

edit:I would fix that but I gotta go

so because her parents decided they don't want to have kids or be parents anymore (shes been living with grandparents for 7months, and now is 9wks with child..)

they feel like they can decide for her to do the same....hope the grandparents taught her what love really is....

its just so messed up that they don't have her in their home, but decided that she too doesn't need to be a parent...wonder if they belong to the Church of Scientology??

im not embarrassing myself , as i stated , it will play out , make no mistake about it & as for precedents , there are few , which is why THIS WILL make it to court , in 1 form or another & i did state a precedent , note scientologist parents convictions for not supplying health care to a minor & JW children being treated with practices against JW beliefs, a court determined what is the parents responsibility while working with doctors , it still takes a court to set the laws to be enforced & this is no exception & it will be a can of worms for both camps.I stated , this is not over & wont be for yrs to come , even if its kicked down the road.

cowtowntrucker,

Just because she is 16 does not mean she can not care for a child. I had two kids before I was out of high school. I graduated High school got a job went into CNA classes and got my certification. I have raised my kids on my own no help from their dad or any money from my parents. I was only on welfare for the time I was finishing high school so I could care for my children on my own. My children are now 16 and 15 and I have always put them first. I never did and never would turn my back on my kids. I take offence to you and all of the others saying a 16 year old can't care for a child when I cared for two at the age of 17, my first was born when I was 16 and the second when I was 17. If I could do it than she can too. Maybe she did think about the consequences of spreading her legs and maybe she does not want to kill a baby over her own mistake. What ever happened to people taking responsibility for what they have done. But no now days people would rather make others take the easy way out when they make a mistake. You never learn to be responsible if you take the easy way out.

If her parents poison her with an abortion pill after the fact....

im incline to believe all official parties will move to protect both, themselves as well as the unborn child...if the parents poison her with a abortion pill after the fact this could get really messy for the legal parties involved...and be a major lawsuit against the courts

& as for precedents , there are few ,

Which are???

& i did state a precedent ,

Yeah, the thing about precedents, are that you want them to work for your side, not the other's.

note scientologists convictions for not supplying health care , a court determined what is the parents responsibility , working with doctors

Yes, because they followed the parents orders, which led to their convictions. Ergo, the parents didn't have the authority. If they did, the doctors wouldn't have been in trouble for following their orders, now would they???

it still takes a court to set the laws to be enforced

Huh??? No, it takes the court to interpret the law. The legislature sets them, and the executive branch enforces them. That's civics 101.

Roadless,

If the parents poison her after the fact it will have nothing to do with the lawsuit. It will be negligence against the grandparents for not involving protective services, who should have been involved instead of an attorney.

sarah, you are being really catty by pointing out any mistakes in peoples logic, "its called fetus"...most of your posts appear to have this "im better", "no one can draw parallels better than me" attitude. I cant read you today, not that you care, no worries....just thought you could chill out and be somewhat respectful..

Correct, meaning that parents don't have the legal authority to force this girl into an abortion, ergo, no real threat.

Not sure about that, Sarah. She's a minor. In Texas, at that. And in Texas, minors have no rights. Eeesh.

(J/K)

Whatever the courts rule, the kid is doomed.

(NOT kidding here)

I cant read you today, not that you care, no worries

You're right. I don't care. There, better?

Oh, and I really prefer the term, "Liberal, intellectual elitist" over "Catty". It has a much more poetic ring.

Hotticket,

Whatever the courts rule, the kid is doomed.

I concur.

We have no more a right to force a pregnant woman to get an abortion than we do to force them to have the baby. I don't understand why so many people in this country, who are often the very same ones who rail and wail about their freedoms and rights, want to force everyone to only have it one way or the other. Not allowing a pregnant woman to have an abortion is no better than forcing someone to get an abortion. If we are truly a country of freedom, shouldn't it be the choice of the woman who is pregnant?

Now I don't know all the details. Of course the fact that she is under aged and may not be able to properly care for the baby is a factor. But in the end, she would be the one giving birth. What happens to the child after the fact is therefore a different story. But it should still be her decision to have it or not.

Life starts at conception with out conception there can be no life. So yes even a fetus is a living thing.

Emna3,

Not that I am condoning the parents - however, it may be that their reason for pushing an abortion is that they know they will end up responsible for this baby, both monetarily and emotionally. Perhaps they know their daughter is not mature enough to handle a baby. Don't judge hearing only one side of the story.

It's not a puppy.

The eight-page petition alleges that the plaintiff’s parents, identified as Jeffrey Koen and Denise Watts Koen

Hyphenated name and she's had 4 abortions herself? Why am I not surprised?

These people are despicable wanting to kill their grandchild? Really you can't go any lower than that.

Phil Christone Baratta,

The mother of the pregnant girl has had 4 abortions, So no suprise that she could kill her own grandchild if she could kill her own children.

What an indictment of our society. I assume you believe that you are a "moral and just" person too ... LOL!!!!!! Ahhhh.... the far left ..... your logic would be amusing if it weren't so sad.

But it isn't faaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr left. It's most of the country right up to about 2/3 of your own party.

You don't get to choose. Do you understand that? It doesn't matter what you think for anyone but yourself. Actually it doesn't even matter for you because only a man could be so self same sure he was right for everyone, no exceptions.

Sit down and be quiet. You sound silly.

Not sure how this fits in here, but in Texas a 16-year-old has the right to leave their parents and go out on their own.

However, but according to other Texas laws, if the that 16-year-old doesn't go to school, the parents can be found guilty of not making the kid go to school.

So you can get in trouble for something that is legally not within your power to control.

"Oh, and I really prefer the term, "Liberal, intellectual elitist"..."

LOL Sarah!!!

Mommy04...on having not one, but two kids on your own when 17 and taking care of them.

In this day and age, you are most certainly an exception to the rule.

Mommy,

Just because a fetus is alive, that doesn't make it a human who's rights are established. A lot of things are alive and not human. A lot of things are alive and have the potential to be human, but are not human.

The real question is when does HUMANITY begin. And please, save yourself some trouble. No argument YOU generate or post will prove this. It will be done through science, not Mommy's Newsvine posts.

I absolutely agree with the parents. How is this 16 year old going to support a child? Doesn't seem like the parents will help. Another a$$hole kid being a drain on our already flopping economy. F' this kid. She should be aborted for being an idiot like all the other idiots who have children that can't take care of them.

I am sure people like all you who are saying that a 16 year old cant raise a kid were saying the same thing about me when I was 15 and pregnant. Maybe I am an exception to the rule but out of my entire high school there were lots of pregnant teens who were just as good of a mother to their children as I am to mine and very few who should have given theirs up. I still know most of these other mothers and they are doing great not living on welfare and raising their children to be active members of society. I went to a school for pregnant and parenting teens so all 119 students were pregnant, mothers or fathers. Out of those 119 parents only 5 were what I would call unfit mostly because of drug abuse. So looking at the fact that I know many teen parents who are awesome parents to their children and not mooching off of tax payer. Yes most of us were on aid of some sort while in high school but as soon as we were out of high school we all got jobs and some of us went on to college with grants and working part time or full time jobs. One of them is now a toxicologist who just got her PH.D. These girls were all between the ages of 15-18 when they had a baby. There are always going to be bad parents who mooch off of welfare no matter how old they were when they had the baby.

Sarah,

Why do you look so familiar? Does Springhill ring a bell?

Mommy,

Nope??? Is that in MD/DC/MI?

Now tell me again ... why should we kill the baby?

Sarah Nope. You look just like a girl I used to work with also named Sarah. :)

Maybe she can get on the "Teen Mom" reality show. If not there is plenty of money from the right wing/pro-life people. The GOP wants to stop government handouts and likes to pretend teen/unwed/single parenthood is free. Can't have it both ways, taxpayer always gets the bill and the GOP can act self-righteous. Oh yeah, that's right, this is Obama's fault.

Sarah,

Why do you look so familiar? Does Springhill ring a bell?

Mommy,

Nope??? Is that in MD/DC/MI?

Sarah Nope. You look just like a girl I used to work with also named Sarah. :)

See....like that Sarah....I wildly disagree with your use of a photo.....mine doesn't even show my planet of origin.

Freedom isn't free, you earn it from laughing at your parents.

GodOfFate- Back there on this thread has hit the nail on the head. To wit, if the state has the right to tell a women she can not have an abortion then the state has the right to tell a women she must have an abortion. Both ways bad. All these people who supposedly want government out of our lives, see that as a very limited desire. They want the government to decide a woman's reproductive options. YOU CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS !!!!

I... really don't trust this story, if only because we have yet to hear from the parents, only from the teen. Do remember that teens that don't get their way are some of the most vengeful people on the planet. My older sister actually tried something like this, when my parents never wanted to "force her" to get an abortion... then again, she was never pregnant in the first place, she just wanted to shame our parents. Secondly, I can feel for the parents, because I've seen SO many pregnancies end up the problem of the grandparents, not of the snot-nosed, self-centered parents themselves. Teenage mothers are especially the worse (seriously, watch an episode of Teen Mom and just feel your brain rot out...).

Let's face it, she's probably going to use this to blackmail and agreement out of her parents where they have to take care of the kid, so their daughter can go prancing about with her legs as open as she can get them, partying all day and all night. I could be wrong, maybe she'd be a loving, adoring mother, but most kids nowadays are so focused on living eternally as selfish kids themselves that they can't do what's needed with having your own kid: Sacrificing yourself, be it your time, money, fun, or even your well being for the sake of your child. This teen has no idea what she's getting herself into.

Obviously this is a story meant to get people riled up over abortion.

Abortion rights are about letting women choose whether they want an abortion or not. In this case the parents were out of line, but this situation doesn't characterize the abortion debate at all. Reasonable pro-choice people support brave young women who choose to have their babies.

But consider that this situation could be reversed. Women have been forced to have babies even when they didn't want to have babies. Usually because some dope didn't want to use a condom.

She's been pregnant 5 times at 16?

It seems to me that this young girl has some fantasy view of life with a baby, and the parents know it. It doesn't matter how this is resolved, it will not end well.

Sarah-3043284

A lot of things are alive and have the potential to be human, but are not human.

Ummmm??? Can you name two??

Sperm. Eggs.

I am pro-choice. CHOICE is the operative word here.

JoeR - exactly!! Pro-choice works both ways. I am so sick of the term 'pro-abortion' to describe 'pro-choice'.

I'm sorry for your experience, Raven. I hope you'll find comfort in your son and knowing you've been a good mother to him.

I've got to agree with you, Joe R. I'm prochoice also, and the teenager has made that choice. It is wrong for the parents to "force" her to abort. Now, come the whys and howcomes....

There's a lot going on in this family; the daughter is living with her grandparents, and not her parents, so my first question would be "Why?" Are the parents controlling or are the grandparents permissive? Perhaps the girl has runaway in the past and is out of control, and it was decided that she needed to be living elsewhere.

Why did the girl get pregnant? Did birthcontrol fail? Did she feel the need to be loved, so she got pregnant on purpose? Or perhaps it was to "show" her parents who was really boss.

Whatever the situation, this girl and the newborn will have many challenges in front of them. I wish them well, and hope that the girl is mature enough to make good decisions for her and her baby.

LeanForward2014,

Some of us are pretty sick of the term "anti abortion activist" to describe "pro life".

KC Bones,

Some of us are pretty sick of the term 'pro life' to describe 'pro birth'. Birth'em...that's their cry. No involvement after that. Zip. Massive difference.

Could you pay for it yourself and raise the kid?? If not, you should have NOT have gotten preganate!!!! -- no matter what!!!

Rocket Dog,

Just because charities who help mothers who are in crisis pregnancies don't advertise all over the place doesn't mean they don't exist. We happen to have at least 4 such organizations in the town where I live, and all of them help mothers when they're pregnant as well as for years afterwards if need be. They're always asking for donations of larger size diapers, larger size clothes, etc., for the moms they're helping as their children get older. They encourage the women to continue with their pregnancies and help them in any way they can for as long as they need it. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it's not happening.

thanks C NJ Mom.

i agree with you. there has to be a lot going on in the family.

@HOLY&#%*

uh yes, i could have. i was working full-time as a legal secretary / paralegal. and as i said .. i WAS using birth control. we were engaged. my mother was not supporting me at that time. i paid her rent to be at her home. but i was not 18.

Raven. I feel for you. But as a father of 8, 4 of mine and 4 of my wife. I have to say, no one knows our daughters and sons better the the parents. You have to ask yourself, Could you have raised this child on your own? What kind of support system did you have. Was the father of the child around are were you on your own? Wounder this, what kind of a life could you have given the child? We went trough this with my wife's oldest daughter, She don't even like kids yet she managed to get knocked up. Who do you think was going to have to raise that child, because she wasn't about to. She had no Idle who the dad was, or so she said. Luck for us she lost it within the month. God knew she didn't want or need a baby. raven you knew how you were then. Be honest with your self. I got my girlfriend pregnant when we were 16 and her mom took her off to NY for an Abortion, she dam near died from it. We were told she would never be able to have kids after what she went trough. I end up with 4 children 6 grand children. I held the burden of thinking she could never have kids for 40 years. Then I happened across her sister on face book. To my delete, I found she has 2 girls. But truth is we would have never made as parents at that age. I had my first daughter at 18, had a good paying job and it was still very hard. Raising kids is no simple job. I watch my kids struggle to raise my grand children, and they are all much better educated then I was and am. Its just plain hard. I mean no offence. Just trying to help you look at the hole pitcher.

raven i understand your point because there is always the what would have been scenario in the back of our minds. have you ever considered the negative aspect of of if you didnt? i understand because we look at the positive and we think that the best would have occurred had we kept the child. ever consider the bad?

did you marry the guy that you were engaged to

did you move out your mother's home by the time you hit 18 since you were paying her rent im sure you were able to pay rent elsewhere since you had a job (sounds like you had your responsibilities in order however it doesnt sound like the 16 year old in this story does but i could be wrong)

what age did you have your 28 year old

you said your mother was not supporting you so i gather that you were paying half the bills (not just rent), you were paying for half the food, you paid for use of the utensils and for any other amenities like you would in an apartment building via a landlord. my guess is that she also didnt give you any money and that you didnt ask her for any since a landlord is not going to loan or give you money

LeanForward2014

JoeR - exactly!! Pro-choice works both ways. I am so sick of the term 'pro-abortion' to describe 'pro-choice'.

The problem with the term "pro-choice" is that for most liberals this is the only choice that they are in favor of. They don't want people to choose how to run their own businesses, they don't want people to choose whether to join a union or not, they don't want us to choose whether or not to buy health insurance, for Christ's sake, they don't even want us to be able to choose what light-bulbs we can use. Generally speaking, if liberals think it is "good" they want it mandated and if they think it's "bad" they want it banned.

Can people really call themselves "pro-choice" if this is the only choice they are willing to allow people?? If "pro-abortion" offends you perhaps you should come up with another, more fitting term.

@Marinewife2003 - Not suggesting they don't exist - was simply responding to the other post. Great - they exist - exemplary. Where it get's fuzzy is that those are not the posters you see bandied about - when pro-lifer's murder doctors - is not what they scream. The scream about preventing a woman's choice - they don't scream about the care offered from the day the baby enters the world until the mother is fully functioning and on her feet. If you can tell me otherwise - please do. Where? When? It's all about Pro-Life and while you live close, are associated with four - does not suggest it is mainstream as the term 'Pro Life' - which is totally misleading - otherwise, you would read-hear about it absolutely connected to the name. It would be touted, published and pushed. It's not - it is a hit and miss option at best. You know that. I know that. Pro-Lifers know that. I stand by my comment - call yourselves what you are. Pro-Birth. No shame in that. You need to own it. Of course....that is your choice.

In this particular story...the 'girl' is 9 weeks pregnant. Apparently living with her grandparents? She became pregnant by having intercourse. Unless against her will, she knew her actions could possibly start the cycle of another human being. She made several choices. For whatever reason. She made them. The male made them. I've not read the girl was mentally deficent - unable to understand what the potential outcome was. She wants to make her choice. So be it. She has made it. For every action, there will be a reaction. It's called accountability - such a novel concept in today's world! She best be prepared. No complaints. Suck it up. She is on her own. Physically. Monetarily. Again, it is called life. - reach out to her if you wish - share with her your connections. It is her choice. It is that simple. Yes. It really is. Best of luck.

Are you aware that this girl has had 4 previous abortions. The lack of any kind of support structure, coupled with the girl being a kid still (yes 16 is still a kid) doesn't set-up for a positive environment. Unfortunately this hack news company has tried to drive the sympathy of this story towards the girl while neglecting important facts. Nothing new though....

@Backcountry164. Generalizing a bit don't you think? As a conservative/liberal - am solidly and forever 'Pro-Choice' - I own it. It is funny tho that you should mention calling ourselves something other than 'Pro-Abortion'.....especially since we don't call ourselves that. The 'Pro Lifers' call us that as it bends to their media message.

That said - your choices are yours - not mine. Therein is the key to pro-choice. You make yours. I respect your decision. I don't limit your ability or availability. I don't cast 'judgments down from the mountain'. I don't berate you for your choice. I don't murder your doctors. I would never for a single moment suggest I know your situation, walk in your shoes, know your future. It is yours and yours alone to make....to own. That given, I expect and demand the same in return. It is my right. It is my choice. Never yours.

@ Sean - believe if you read the article and other posts - you'll find it was the girl's mother who has had four (4) abortions. Not 'this girl'.

Sean Nordick - it was her MOTHER who had 4 abortions ... not the girl who is pregnant.

Backcountry- Your main paragraph regarding the government "choices" makes great sense. However- your last statement has got to be one of the most idiotic things I've read in a long time.

What exactly do you mean by "..if this is the only choice they are willing to allow people?" What "only choice" are you talking about? Pro-abortion (as you put it) simply means you are in favor of a woman having a choice to abort or go full term. It doesn't mean she HAS to abort. That's the whole concept of having a 'choice'.... get it?

There is no "pro-life/pro-death". You are either in favor of a woman being able to choose whether she has an abortion or not. I personally think a woman should have that choice. Now, does that make me "pro-death" (the opposite of "pro-life")?

I do not believe anyone should be forced into having an abortion. Ever under any circumstances. If someone wants one, I don't believe that they should be forced into having the baby. This certainly doesn't mean you can't offer advice to women like the teen in this article, but at the end of the day, the decision is theirs.

I would consider myself "pro-things that will reduce the abortion rate". Things like comprehensive sex education, family planning services/counseling, cheap, readily available birth control methods. In a perfect world, there would be no abortion, but I realize that we don't live in that world. Rape, incest, dangerous/high-risk pregnancies, ignorance about birth control, or even simply being too young/not stable enough to have a child all happen (the first three are what has made me realize that the option of abortion is necessary). Some of these, we can do something about immediately; others are more difficult to tackle.

Most of the pro-choice folks I know are interested in ways to reduce the number of abortions, and wish to educate people so that abortion isn't their primary form of birth control. The thing that irks me a bit is when somebody calls themselves pro-life, and then proceeds to be against all of the things that could reduce the number of abortions. It's kind of like "well, then, what's your plan? Because it's clear that telling people to not have sex and shaming them if they dare to isn't working."

@chuck-2111043 -

thanks for your post. i get what you're saying - but i was/am a responsible person. while young, i would have made it work. i know it would have changed everything ... but what if that child would have been brilliant and found a cure for cancer? hindsight is 20/20. and things worked out as they did - but i still feel guilt and regret - and will always wonder what could have been.

~ raven

Rocket Dog

Generalizing a bit don't you think?

That is why I said "for most" and "generally speaking".

It is my choice. Never yours.

As a libertarian I am one of the few people in this country who is truly pro-choice. Right across the board, EVERYTHING. As long as your choices don't directly infringe upon the rights of another you should be allowed to do it. Drugs, prostitution, gambling, guns, the whole 9 yards even abortion.

As such I take offense at the term "pro-choice" being applied so narrowly and used only because it sounds good. As I said, liberals are not generally pro-"choice", only pro-"choice to have an abortion", so to speak.

@AGarcia007

did you marry the guy that you were engaged to?

no, i did not. he left me 2 weeks before our wedding - which was scheduled in Sept. 1980 (i graduated in May of 1980) turned 18 the end of January, 1980.

did you move out your mother's home by the time you hit 18 since you were paying her rent im sure you were able to pay rent elsewhere since you had a job (sounds like you had your responsibilities in order however it doesnt sound like the 16 year old in this story does but i could be wrong)

i did move out of my Mother's home the day i graduated from HS and moved in with him (the father/fiance). we had an apartment and paid rent, etc.

what age did you have your 28 year old

i was 22 and was married at the time (to someone else).

you said your mother was not supporting you so i gather that you were paying half the bills (not just rent), you were paying for half the food, you paid for use of the utensils and for any other amenities like you would in an apartment building via a landlord. my guess is that she also didnt give you any money and that you didnt ask her for any since a landlord is not going to loan or give you money

she did not have a mortgage payment, so in paying her rent it went for 1/2 bills, food, utilities, etc. i didn't need to ask her for money. i was working full-time, was making a car payment, etc.

at the time of the abortion, i was 17 and still under her control - hence the reason she could make me do it.

charlieb200012

What exactly do you mean by "..if this is the only choice they are willing to allow people?" What "only choice" are you talking about?

I'm talking about choices unrelated to the abortion issue. I thought I made that clear in my preceding paragraph. Is a statement really "idiotic" just because you didn't understand it or does that better describe the person who couldn't comprehend it?

Allow me to re-phrase for your convenience- "Can people really call themselves "pro-choice" if this abortion is the only choice they are willing to allow people??"- get it?

Actually there are a lot of people on here who claim to be pro-choice but in reality are pro-abortion. This girl has made her choice and they are upset and claiming that she is being pushed into having the baby by the pro-life contingency. A choice is a choice no matter what. If you are pro-choice then you support her in this decision. If you do not support her in this decision then you are pro-abortion.

Can't blame the parents for NOT wanting to have to raise their irresponsible daughters child too. They could suggest adoption too - I wonder if they have? I'd be curious to see this girl 5 years down the road and how her choice impacts her life.

Pedestrian-in-SF

Can't blame the parents for NOT wanting to have to raise their irresponsible daughters child too.

Can we blame the parents for not wanting to raise their irresponsible daughter because they aren't even doing that anymore? Perhaps that is the root cause of the daughters irresponsibility.

Frankly, I think anyone who would actually consider slipping their 9 week pregnant daughter an abortion pill without her knowledge is the type of person who could easily be "blamed" for a whole lot of the issues this girl faces.

There's a lot of problems with the adoption system here in the USA (from all sides-for potential adoptive parents, for the woman giving up the baby, and for the children themselves). Until we fix these issues, I don't think that adoption can be held up as this glorious option that magically solves all the problems of unwanted pregnancy.

..::raven::..

my mother forced me to do this when i was 17 (almost 18). it was a horrible ordeal and i was so angry with her for many, many years. there is probably not a day that goes by that i don't think of what i did - and what my life would have been like with that child. i have a son now (he's 28) ... but i will always wonder what would have been ... and feel great regret over what happened. i am sorry i didn't fight harder - however i was very physically and mentally abused by my mother and didn't have the self-esteem or confidence to stand up for myself. and yes, we were using birth control.

I'm sorry but I don't believe a word of your "movie of the week". Either you aren't very introspective or you aren't telling the truth. No woman that has terminated a pregnancy EVER sees the issue as black and white as you claim to. It's a complex issue that causes much introspection for most women if they think past the end of their nose.

Bringing a child into the world is not like owning a puppy. Though I dare say many people who own animals should take the responsibility a bit more seriously. A child is a lifetime commitment. A child is another human being you will be responsible for until the day you die. This girl has no idea the commitment she is taking on. I would bet if you asked her it's about wanting someone to love her, wanting a boy to marry her, wanting to get free money, wanting to get out of going to school, wanting to get out of the house and away from the rules...

Notice anything these items have in common? Yes, you're right. Every one of them is about the girl, not what is best for the child.

The people here who comment mostly comment about what is best for the girl, what makes them feel good, what their religion tells them to do, how much they want to have a child or be a grandparent--almost noone here is commenting on the life that child is going to have and what chance it will have.

Which tells me I feel sorry for many of your children because if you haven't already, it won't be long before you're facing this situation yourselves... because it's all about you and none of it is about the welfare of the children.

Sometimes the correct answer is the hard one, the painful one, the one that makes you feel uncomfortable and bad. Sometimes there are no good choices just ones that choose the least horrible of all the bad choices.

mj - are you in the habit of calling anything that does not support your thesis a lie? If you don't have a better argument than to say, "I don't believe you," that's pretty weak. Perhaps it is because others have accomplished things that you know yourself to be incapable of, and so rather than admire their accomplishments, or trying to better yourself, you simply deny the truth so as to not have to measure up yourself. Sad...

mj-1451595

because it's all about you and none of it is about the welfare of the children.

Sometimes the correct answer is the hard one, the painful one, the one that makes you feel uncomfortable and bad. Sometimes there are no good choices just ones that choose the least horrible of all the bad choices.

So in your mind death is preferable to the possibility of a life in poverty?? Sure sounds pretty stupid when put so simply now doesn't it??

But at what point does it become YOUR choice what someone ELSE does? In the Bible if a man has a disobedient son, he can take him to the village gate and have him stoned to death by the elders. This is allowed by the holy book! If you pick up sticks for firewood on the sabbath, the bible demands you be stoned to death! If you forget what day the sabbath is in.... oh yeah, most of you guys did. Saturday is the sabbath, not Sunday. Anyway, your religion teaches you that when a sperm and an egg get together and merge, that a new life is suddenly created, and god slips in invisible, unmeasurable, soul into it. Other religions teach no such thing. MY religion says that there is a point where this little mass of protoplasm becomes a baby, and that before that point, it is not yet a child. In any case, this is the property of the Mother. This is where the mother's freedom should be considered. So while I will agree that late term abortion should not be happening, abortion in the first term should always be the choice of the mother. The second term... yeah, we can debate over that. I still lean towards the mother's freedom.

my mother forced me to do this when i was 17 (almost 18). it was a horrible ordeal and i was so angry with her for many, many years. there is probably not a day that goes by that i don't think of what i did - and what my life would have been like with that child. i have a son now (he's 28).

Mom is that you? Oh nope, read the rest of you story and it can't be. My mother had a very similar story about being forced to abort her babies (she was pregnant with twins) when she was 17. Afterwards in shame she dumped her then boyfriend, went to college and got her bachelors, masters and doctorate in chemistry, married and had three babies (who are now grown). The ex-boyfriend went on to a string of sh!tty jobs and eventually ended up in jail for murder. My mother still bemoans the loss of those babies, I however, am grateful.

If a doctor does it to someone who has said no it's criminal. If a doctor does it to a women that has made an informed decision to protect her body and work toward a better future it's an exercise of the second amendment. Think of the doctor as a gun dealer who sells you a gun for "home protection" but isn't responsible for how you use the gun. Need to have a more invasive procedure? That makes the doctor like calling the police who kill the home invader.

If you want to protect your personal liberty, you need access to the resources of murder. Homicide is sometimes justified and we all have to make the choice to own a gun or not, when to use a gun or not, to shoot to kill or not; abortion is no different then that.

Who's going to have to take care of both the teen and the newborn?

Learnt hick,

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with abortion. Homicide is only ok in self-defense. Having an abortion because you screwed some random person because you can't keep your legs closed isn't ok to take a life.

The teen. Living with grandma for 7 months? Mom wanted her own abortion 16 years ago and now wants to force daughter to have one? No worries though Some Guy, you wont be on the line for child support unless you are the male contributor.

Yes, it is the teen's choice to have the child. It is her decision...rightfully so. Now taxpayers will be on the hook unless she somehow has a stash of cash/fortune that will pay. Let's hope she stays in school, which should be the incentive to receive welfare benefits. Does she have a good paying job? Probably not. A fastfood job is not going to pay. Dropping out of school is no example either. It cost over $200k to raise a child today. What resources will she and the daddy be contributing on their own. Let's hope he has a job and an education to support them while she finishes school.

Birth control is a lot cheaper to pay for then pregnancy (doctor visits, vitamins) then there is the birth of the child...given everything goes well...at least another $20k+. Diapers and formula alone are not cheap. This is where states need to change their laws for welfare recipients. Nothing should come for free or at the expense of others' hard earned money (tax dollars).

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with abortion. Homicide is only ok in self-defense. Having an abortion because you screwed some random person because you can't keep your legs closed isn't ok to take a life.

I'm going to change your body chemistry, shape and financial situation. Most of the worst damage to your body will be over the next 9 months. The financial burden will be ongoing for nearly 20 years. No, I'm not a baby, I'm some psycho offender.

Is it about the second amendment now?

Hick,

You make absolutely no sense. First off an offender that trys to harm me won't be around for 20 years. Just long enough to bleed out if they continue their threat. They won't change my body shape or chemistry. They certainly won't change my financial situation, because self-defense laws in my state and nearly every state I visit don't allow a criminal to sue me if I fire in self-defense. With that aside a baby does do the above things, but it is what a woman's body is for. They are called reproductive organs for a reason.

but it is what a woman's body is for.

Whoops, Dawg, I believe you just revealed your true stance. Women are for breeding, right?

So if they have sex without the intent to breed, and do accidentally get pregnant, they should be punished, no?

I find Learnt Hicks analogy interesting, because, in a sense, abortion is self-defense.

No one has the right to tell anyone else, male or female, what their body is made for, Dawgfan. That is the most chauvinistic POV anyone can take. Someone should set you straight and I'm glad that it's me:

A woman's body is made for her to live in, not solely to make a child.

Here's another one: pregnancy is dangerous for women. Abortion is safer.

Julieann

wow i wish i would have had 200k to spend per child ..i think your reaching on the costs just a tad or you make a ton of money to blow

peridot-1693859 - abortion is not safer for women than pregnancy. They both carry their risks. Women can die from abortions, they can get an infection from the procedure that will make them insanely ill and can make it almost impossible for them to ever have kids again. Plus, has anyone thought about how it feels for the baby? All types of abortion are extremely painful for the baby once it passes 4 weeks. By then it has nerves and can react to pain. Different types of abortions do different things. One type dissolves the baby (can't tell me that isn't painful), another type goes in and scrapes the baby off the wall of the uterus and tears it apart so it will come out easier...that sounds kind of painful to me too... There are many different ways to abort a baby. What I don't understand is this: Once it has a heartbeat, how is it not considered a life? If you kill a pregnant woman, you can be tried for 2 murders. So suddenly that baby is a life. But if that same woman had wanted an abortion, it wouldn't have been a life, it would have been a fetus, just some mass growing in her that needs to taken out before it ruins her life. Of course, then you have my personal favorite abortion - partial birth which is where the baby goes almost full term, the mother goes into labor, and then the doctor cuts a hole in the skull of the baby and vacuums the brains out, thus collapsing the skull of the baby and the delivers the baby as a dead...fetus?? Our President is in favor of partial birth abortions btw...I don't see how that isn't murder.

In my eyes, if you are old enough to have sex, you are old enough to pay the consequences. You shouldn't be able to get off the hook by killing an innocent child simply because you wanted to play grown-up and have sex. Same goes for adults. You don't want kids- get fixed, then have sex. Don't risk getting pregnant and then say "oh I can always have an abortion" because you are literally tearing apart or dissolving a human life just for a few hours of pleasure on your part. How selfish can you possibly get? You have to carry that with you for the rest of your life. Knowing you killed a helpless baby just so you could get your rocks off with no repercussions. If you can't afford to be a single parent and you can't afford to take care of a baby, then you can't afford to have sex. Guess what...it won't kill you or anyone else to not have sex until you are ready to either pay the possible consequences or make sure you won't get pregnant.

I don't think it is right for teenagers to be having sex. But if they do and one gets pregnant and wants to do the right thing and try to take care of it and be a parent instead of killing the child to be rid of any responsibility or obligation to their actions, then the parents should not be forcing her to do otherwise.

Dawgfan-4710266

The plaintiff’s mother “invited the paternal grandparents to a bar for further discussion, where she suggested that she might slip R.E.K. an abortion pill through deception,” according to the petition.

It isn't entirely clear the way this sentence is written, but R.E.K. are the girl's initials, not the name of the "abortion pill" (grammatically speaking, for R.E.K. to refer to the drug there should be a comma after R.E.K., and another one after "pill").

BTW, there are only two types of "abortion pills" that I know of:

One is called the "morning after pill" or "emergency contraception pill" or "Plan B" (I believe this is a brand name) and must be taken within 72 hours of having intercourse. This one does not actually cause an abortion...it prevents fertilization just a birth control pills do (which is why it must be taken within 72 hours).

The other is called a Medical Abortion (brand name Mifeprex) and can only be used for women who are 8 weeks pregnant or less. It is a form of early abortion caused by the combination of two medications, mifepristone and misoprostol. It is only available through a doctor's visit. The first pill is given at the appointment, and the second is taken 24-72 hours later at home and can causes an early "miscarriage (IMO - still abortion because it's being purposefully done) within two weeks.

Regardless, since the girl is at least nine weeks along, neither option would be viable for her, and even if the second option were viable, there's no way it could be "slipped" to her, since it requires a doctor visit.

Thessdd,

Yeah, I noticed R.E.K. after my time to make a change ran out. Total face palm on my part.

Herbalist, recent studies have shown that an embryo's/fetus's brain and nervous system are not developed enough to feel pain until roughly twenty weeks. Elective abortions are almost always done before twelve weeks. The "partial birth" abortions are illegal in every state, unless there is some extreme extenuating circumstance, such as an "incompatible with life" birth defect. Abortion is safer thsn preganancy. Roughly twenty-four women died of birthing complications in 2010, while only four women died from abortions in the same year.

Thessdd, mifepristone and misoprostol are sold over the counter in many European countries. You can purchase them in kits on-line. So, yes, the girl could be "slipped" the drugs. They also work up until twelve weeks, not eight.

It's a person's chioce to lay down and do the deed. They know full well what could happen. You don't want to get pregnant, then get on birthcontrol or don't lay down. That's the choice. Taking a human life should only be done if the life of the mother is in danger. Not because it's a boy or girl, or might have downs, or you are young, or you just don't want a baby.

Thankfully, it is her right to choose to terminate her pregnancy or carry to term. Your opinion has nothing to do with it, Dawg. This will never change no matter how much the "pro-lifers/anti-choicers" whine.

It rankles me when anti-choicers praise the choice of having a baby instead of terminating, but want to deny that choice to others.

Thanks Bob for making perfect sense. Also, the anti-choicers always support legistlation that pregnant teens must be subject to their parents oversight regarding abortion, but when the parents don't agree with their view on abortion, then they take them to court, using Roe V Wade as the basis. What a joke these anti-choicers are!

According to Dawgfan, pregnancy's the punishment for a woman having sex. Having a baby is God's way of making a woman pay for the enjoyment of sex for 18 years. Labour is the pain she must pay for having an orgasm. If the birth control failed, too bad for her. If the father doesn't want to support her, the government will pay via the taxpayers. She's required to go through pregnancy, labour, delivery and the heartbreak of giving up a child so some unknown people can have an infant because of his religious values. Never mind she may have lifelong health complications or die as a result of the pregnancy.

Dawgfan cares more about her fetus than he cares about the mother. That's what the antiabortionists are all about. Pregnancy is dangerous to every woman. There can be complications to every pregnancy. Sometimes the mother will die.

If men fell pregnant and had to raise children, changing diapers for 4 years and wiping snotty noses, abortions would be available on every corner and RU-486 would be on every fast food menu in a sex-pack (sic). Never doubt it for an instant.

I am pro life 100%. It is the woman's (or in this case girl's) right to choose what will or will not happen to her body. I also believe it is in her best interest to be fully informed and not just scared into a decision. I was actually told by a woman who got pregnant when she was 26 that she was surprised that delivery is painful! It is important to know the risks of an abortion and the responsibility that comes with pregnancy and the decisions that follow. She has the option to raise the child (or children), put the child(ren) into foster care until she is old enough to support the child on her own (which may be never) or put the child up for adoption. How will she feel about each choice and which can she live with because none of them is going to be easy.

It is easy to judge what she should do but she's the one who will have to live with the final decision.

Peridot....I am going to assume that you don't have children and most likely never will based on the venom that you are spewing. I have known many people that were pro-choice prior to having children and once they did have children their tune changed drastically. But it isn't my place to judge anyone so this is besides the point.

What statement in Dawgfan's post gave you the impression that he considers having a child a punishment? Children are not punishment. They are a blessing. He merely stated if you don't want to get pregnant then take the proper precautions to ensure that you don't. A little accountability, which seems to have gone the way of the dodo, would be nice.

The thing that gets me the most is that there are laws that charge a murderer for the death of a pregnant mother as well as the unborn child. If the unborn child is just a fetus that could be aborted because it isn't truly a life yet....then how can that be murder? Hypocrisy maybe? I get from your post that you condone murder and are sexist to boot. How's that for jumping to conclusions?

Peridot,

Children are not punishment. Children are a joy to this world. A child is a little miricle that is created my TWO people. I know pregnancies can be dangerouse. My wife and I have two wonderful children. We also made 6 hospital visits between the two pregnancies because of complications. We knew the risks, but we want children. I also care about the baby that is forming inside. The one that has a heartbeat around day 22. The baby that develops and starts brain activity at 4 weeks. It also has a liver, kidneys, and intestines, along with a spine and nerves are starting to form between week 3 and 4. The baby developes eyes, legs, and hands at week 5. By week 8 every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. The baby can also hear at week 8. It gets teeth and fingernails, and is able to turn it's head, frown, and can hiccup by week 10. The baby can breathe amniotic fluid and urinate, can grasp objects, and all organ systems are fuctioning, along with skeletal structure, nerves and circulation at week 11. A baby can feel pain by week 12, and can suck it's thumb. At 17 weeks a baby can have a dream. By week 20 a baby can recognizes it's mothers voice. Week 20 is also the earliest stage a partial birth can be performed.

Someone please read all the things a baby has in the first 20 weeks, and tell me that it's still just a fetus and not a baby. Tell me that it's no a life. How can any of you think it's ok to kill a baby just because you don't want it, or time is just not right, or the daddy wont' be around? If a person is responsible enough to lay down and get laid, then they are responsible enough to deal with the consequences of doing so. A good parent raises their kids. They don't kill them!!!!

Dawgfan-4710266

Though I don't judge those who choose abortion - it's not my place to judge - I have always held the belief that from the moment of conception, a child is already complete -- it's entire genetic makeup has already been decided. All that's left is time and nurturing.

Legal abortions are here to stay, no matter how much Dawg wants to control your body. Here's an idea: Dawg, if you don't like abortions, don't have one! You can choose your way and women can choose their way, as is their right.

"God" terminates more pregnancies through miscarriage than abortion ever has; if it's okay with "god", then I'm okay with it.

Bob,

I never said I wanted to control a woman's body. I said people need to take resopnsibility for what can happen when they have relations. Yes, people have relations to feel good, but the purpose of it is to conceive a child. Do you agree with the following?

Partial-Birth Abortion is a procedure in which
the abortionist pulls a living
baby feet-first out of the womb and into the birth canal (vagina), except
for the head, which the abortionist purposely keeps lodged just inside the
cervix (the opening to the womb). The abortionist punctures the base of the
baby’s skull with a surgical instrument, such as a long surgical scissors or a
pointed hollow metal tube called a trochar. He then inserts a catheter (tube)
into the wound, and removes the baby's brain with a powerful suction machine.
This causes the skull to collapse, after which the abortionist completes the
delivery of the now-dead baby.

This is usually done as early as 20 weeks.

I said people need to take resopnsibility for what can happen when they have relations.

Yes, I agree. Responsibilty to either carry to term or terminate.

"Partial-birth abortions" account for 0.2% of all abortions. So you agree that the other 99.8% of abortions are okay?

I don't agree with anything that the National Right To Life organization writes.

How much money will you send her so she can look after her child, Ms Stouwie? At age 16, she will obviously be too young to work or finish her education while she takes care of her infant. One would love to know how much you will contribute to her upkeep.

Having seen that this young idiot has already had 5 abortions, I wouldn't give her a plugged nickle or a used diaper. There's something wrong with her and I wouldn't trust her with a dead dog, much less an infant. You think she can take care of a newborn? You're a fool!

The girl didn't have abortions. Her mom, who is dragging her to court, had them. And I hope that if the baby is born, it is adopted out in a blind adoption, so that it can grow up without this story following it around.

Peridot-1693859

At age 16, she will obviously be too young to work or finish her education while she takes care of her infant.

My (now ex) wife did all three including college so what exactly makes it so "obvious"??

Peridot, maybe you need to go back to school and learn a little reading comprehension. Her mother is the one that had the four abortions not her. It is obvious to me that you are pro-abortion, not pro-choice and that is just as bad as the anti-abortion people.

Funny how we condone a sexualized society that does not believe in marriage anymore, yet get so freaked out about the financial aspect. I mean sex is an evolutionary product that is meant to produce children! We give our kids birth control pills, then cry when they get pregnant.

If the kids minimize their intimate contact to relationships that matter, perhaps they'd have a better shot at life... maybe they could have a long term relationship (marriage... gasp!) and finish school (one works, the other finishes school). It's better than a long string of shallow relationships that result in nothing. Not that they don't provide any "fun," but jeesh do you have to sleep with everyone who strikes your fancy?

Trying to get "everyone" to act a certain way is the ultimate definition of a futile task. You will never be able to get everyone to give up having sex as a fun thing to do when bored, or as a passionate thing to do when you are in love, but not yet married. You won't stop some violent offenders from forcing sex upon others either. All you can do is deal with the consequences as they arise. I still vote for prevention, because it costs the least and covers mots situations, but if that fails, you need to have backup.

So the state should be able to tell a teen she has to, but at the same time tell a adult woman she can't? We can't have it both ways. Yes welfare is most likely going to get paid. And it should come with guidelines about getting training and a job so that she can take care of herself and the child. I find it almost laughable that out of one side of the mouth Texas and other states want to force you to have the child and out of the other do not want to help once you have said child.

Why would you even suggest that the state "doesn't want to help" bj...? WHY should they! This little girl did it to herself, and she should have to pay the consequences of supporting her stupidity herself. It's not like billboards haven't been advertising birth control for the last 25-30 years. It's not like TV hasn't been doing the same for the last 40 or more. These kids these days shouldn't be allowed to play the "I don't know how it happened" card. And when they get themselves in trouble, they should be the ones who are footing the bill, not the rest of the public within their state. She should be made a ward of the court and ordered to train for a job, and parenting skills and allow her to get a GED.

Perhaps the grandparents have the means to support the teenager and her baby.

Sure hope so, because kids cost $200 grand to raise to age 18 now. That's a lot for pensioners to pay these days.

Id love to see a realistic breakdown on the 200k cost per child cause im pretty sure most middle class families are not spending 200k per child

I'm keeping my hopes up for an adoption. I sure hope she isn't holding on to any hope of the sperm donor showing up on Valentines Day with roses and a ring.

david-316722

Id love to see a realistic breakdown on the 200k cost per child cause im pretty sure most middle class families are not spending 200k per child

I can guarantee that I didn't.

david -

You post a lot of comments that question other posters' assertions. Do you not know how to use Google(or other search engine)? Or are you just lazy?

You do realize that includes buying them all the latest tech toys as they come out. I-Pads, I-Phones, videogames, etc. You know all those items that we require to live these days.

I did a little research (unlike the lazy david-316722), and in 1960, it cost $25,299, or $191,720 in today's dollars when adjusted for inflation, to raise a child to 18 (http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/CRC/crc2011.pdf).

See the PDF for the breakdown of 2011 costs and how they were calculated.

Bob Freebird O so your counting on the govt figures to help you along ..you are pretty dumb thinking that the average american household has that kind of money to spend on raising a child but hey you just keep drinking the koolaide man im sure you will be ok.

David, the 191,000.00 figure is an average. You do know how one gets an average, right? Obvisously, one's household income is going to determine the exact amount one spends to raise a child, but that does not mean the average of 191,000.00 is incorrect.

Misscreant

David, the 191,000.00 figure is an average. You do know how one gets an average, right? Obvisously, one's household income is going to determine the exact amount one spends to raise a child, but that does not mean the average of 191,000.00 is incorrect.

While this is true it also points out the fallacy of claiming that it costs 200k to raise a child. Just because some people spend that much does NOT mean that is the actual cost of doing so.

You can disbelieve all you like, but abortion exists.

What I hate worst, is people who try to force their beliefs on others. It's no one's business if a person wants to have an abortion.

Just as it is no ones business if a person wants to carry the child to term.

They don't "need" to be more supportive. It wasn't their choice to bring another child into the world. Sure, they shouldn't force her to have an abortion, but they shouldn't be forced to support her decision either.

Ditto Rachael. There are a lot of people who would be willing to help this girl, myself included.

Rachael & cybertoe,

I agree. Pro-choice means pro-choice. But with that choice comes responsibility. If she chooses to have her baby, she should also choose to do the best she can by that child. She should continue her education and try to give the best life possible to the child or she should give the child up for adoption if she cannot or won't do the very best for the child. If she chooses abortion, she should have the responsibility to make sure she is never faced with this decision again. If it has happened before, she has already proven she cannot or willnot take responsibility for her life and her actions and deserves whatever she gets.

The parents should not force an abortion on this girl nor should parents force a girl to have a baby. The girl has to make an informed choice. My question is why has the girl been living with her grandmother if the parents are so concerned for her well being? Also, parents need to realize that because a child makes a bad choice (and getting pregant at 16 was certainly a bad choice - whether it was choices that led to the pregancy or a deliberate intent), that doesn't relieve the parent of the responsibility of being a parent. If they force their choice on this girl, that is a decision all 3 will live with for the rest of their lives and one that will most likely destroy the parent/daughter relationship. There will always be the "what if" in that girl's mind. I've personally never met anyone who was "pro-abortion" - I've met a lot of people who are pro-choice and, trust me, there is a difference. We all make choices in our teens, 20's and 30's that, hopefully, we would not make in our 50's and 60's. We all make mistakes as parents - hopefully not one of that magnitude!

Throw in the fact that at 16, this is actually her fifth pregnancy.

Enough: no it's not. it's her MOTHER who had 4 abortions.

You don't know that...maybe she's a nasty, defiant teen, who got kicked out for any number of reasons, and grandparents might have taken her in.

The truth is, we dont' know...but what we do know is that at 16 a young woman without a massive trust fund, is ill equipped financially, and without full brain development that happens in the early 20's is ill equipped mentally to care for an infant, let alone herself. Bad idea. So who is going to care for her and the babe? And you know who suffers? the BABY. The CHILD.

That girl is living with her grandparents because she has no where else to go. If she decides to keep the baby, she will be living there for many years.Without an education or at least a GED, she will have a hard time finding a job that pays enough for her to get her own place. Where's the dude who knocked her up?

I hope she signs the adoption papers, and give the baby and herself new lives.

read this...it paints a much clearer picture. obviously that 16 yr old girl never had a chance...4 abortions for her already...

http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/02/13/54818.htm

and she "liked" the msnbc article on her facebook page!!!! WOW!

Good points - she doesn't have a clue what she's getting herself into. I can't believe the lawyers are involved. Who suggested that brilliant move? Her family will have to pick up after her "ooops." So they do have a right to try to parent, but it seemed too little too late.

Read the article. It was the MOM who had the 4 abortions, not the young girl. Sounds like this girl comes from a real f up home life.

got my pronouns twisted above..the 4 abortions and the "like" on the facebook page are the moms, not the kids...my bad

sebrad , you are a fool if you think most parents truly understand the complexities of raising a child , most dont truly understand at any age , it is 1 of those things that until u been thru it , u wont understand . I had a wise old hillbilly once tell me , adults dont make kids , kids make adults . PPL think they have all the answers till they face it , then all the questions change. Alot of ppl shouldnt be raising kids at any age .

bjbutterfli good catch. I didn't see it until you pointed that out. So apparently it is the mother that wholeheartedly believes in abortion and not the teen. The father thinks that he can withhold insurance from his daughter? I don't think he can do that. Sebad if you actually read the court documents you would have seen that she was living with her boyfriend's parents during the time she got pregnant because the teen felt like she was not getting parental supervision. Most teens would take advantage of the situation and keep things the way they are. But this girl seems to be more responsible than her parents are, so maybe she knows exactly what she is doing. It appears to me that the parents of the boyfriend will help them out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Having the baby might be the best way for her to get out from her fracked up parent's control. God bless her, whatever happens with the baby and the father.

Just for clarification, Denise is the teenager's mother. Denise is the one who has had four abortions, not R.E.K, the teenager who is pregnant.

yep

You are just wrong. My son was unplanned. I am still caring for him emotionally and financially. Not all men are messed up any more then all women are messed up. I'll tell you what being the man in this situation is, the man may never have the chance to raise or even know the child, based almost entirely on the whim of the mother.

Custody goes to the mom even if she is really messed up. You have to try to murder your 18 month old toddler to even be at risk of loosing custody as a mother. Even then the court often gives the baby back to the mother. To lose custody as a father all that has to happen is the mother says she is afraid of you and poof! instant restraining order and loss of custody.

The topic is forcing someone to have an abortion, not paying child support. Child support and custody issues are topics that need to be discussed but aren't being discussed. I'm sure they will get no traction here.

Custody goes to the mom even if she is really messed up. You have to try to murder your 18 month old toddler to even be at risk of loosing custody as a mother. Even then the court often gives the baby back to the mother. To lose custody as a father all that has to happen is the mother says she is afraid of you and poof! instant restraining order and loss of custody.

Which is why people adopt out-of-the-country babies. So many people have tried to adopt in the states, only to be treated like unpaid baby-sitters when the biological mom decides she wants her baby doll back. I just finished reading about Marilyn Monroe's childhood, and how she did have some nice foster parents and relatives who wanted to adopt her, but her mom, who was nuts anyway, refused to allow it.

I hope in this case, that the baby is adopted out, no strings or ties attached, and that no one shows up to ruin the adoption family.

newsgirl24 and Debengr:

Not true. In this day and age, that kid (hopefully he's a kid) will be required to pay support until the child is at least 18 years of age. If he doesn't, he will (likely) be prosecuted and thrown in jail. This event will be a life-long responsibility (if he ever grows into it) and if he's not with this young woman going forward, that person and the child will always be present in his future relationships.

The "It's a woman's body and it isn't anyone else's business" argument is by definition, a one-way street. The "sperm donor" can neither stop, nor cause an abortion. He can't take responsibility and raise a child he may very much want if the woman declines to carry the baby to term. She gets to decide that attachment and responsibility in every aspect without having to consider any other person's point of view. So before you start the always petulant discussion of men "forcing" decisions on women, and the "I bet if men could have babies..." argument, please remember that very scenario often the case for the "other" person involved on a woman's abortion decision, it's very much forced on him.

I know guys who didn't want children and because of lack of planning, poor decision making, or bad luck are now parents. With that comes all the emotional and financial responsibilities of parenthood, and in some ways divorce (even if they were never married to the mother). I also know several that wanted to be parents and today live with the "what if's" typically associated with women who have either had abortions, or given their child up for adoption.

It takes two. I have 3 boys and 1 daughter. I gave them all the same advice: If you're thinking about having sex with someone, just look at them and imagine them 20 years from now. Take into account your dreams and hopes, and where you want to be. If you know the person well, think of all the things that drive you insane, or which you find unappealing. If you don't know the person well, then think about that fact. Then imagine being attached to that person FOREVER in some way, because the obvious outcome of sex (excluding disease) is children. And that attachment and your hopes, dreams, and concerns for them, starts before birth and lasts until the day you're depart the living.

I hope (and yes, even pray) my kids make sound decisions. I would never force a life choice on them (they are all 15 - 23 now), but they all know the consequences and challenges will be theirs should they decide to act like an adult. I've provided for my children and I'm looking forward to grandchildren (in due time). So while I will always love them and assist when appropriate (occasional babysitting, etc.), I'm not starting the parent game over!

This situation is beyond sad and I hope the child is loved and cared for.

Greg Shep,

I also know several that wanted to be parents and today live with the "what if's" typically associated with women who have either had abortions, or given their child up for adoption.

A number of states allow the bio dad to take custody of the baby, preventing an adoption or stopping one from being finalized. (Again, the adoptive parents are treated like unpaid babysitters.)

I had the sad experience of sitting next to one such father, who had impregnated a 16 year old girl (he looked like he was in his early 20's) and he told everyone in the doctor's office waiting room about what a selfish, horrible person she was to have wanted to give his son up for adoption. He had the baby with him, but I'm sure that the poor kid will never, ever hear a nice word about his mother, and with his angry attitude, I'm sure that there will be a lot of short-term relationships with women--not a healthy environment for a child.

And how many women do nothing but trash talk the father of their children when there is a rift in their relationship? It works both ways.

Greg -

Great post and great advice to your children. It flies in the face of our current "if it feels good do it!" and instant gratification.

BTW - grandchildren are simply wonderful - and you can send them home when you need to!

Maybe he was still bitter but I am sure that after time it won't seem as bad. He does have his son doesn't he? He apparently loves this child and will dote upon the child. Thankfully he was able to stop anything and get his kid.

According to the link in post 18.1, the father is involved. That is the family she has been living with.

She was living with the boyfriend and his parents. Apparently that is where she would go to.

According the the court papers, I would say this is a wrong assessment. Her father is described as being mean and violent. He has threatened to beat her among other things. I would say this girl has no intentions of leaving the baby with her parents.

She probably wants some love in her life, and she thinks that the baby will give her the love that so far no one in her family seems to have given her. Unfortunately, a lot of girls think that, and that the baby's father will return/stay with them once he sees his baby.

Of course it can't be her choice, it must be that she was brainwashed by the pro-life nut jobs. There is absolutely no way in the world that a 16 year old would want to keep her child without be brainwashed into it.

Some people have not read the other articles or have problems with reading comprehension. The teen was living with the boyfriend and her family due to lack of parental supervision from her own parents. She became pregnant. She wants to keep the baby but as soon as her mother was told that she was pregnant the first thing out of her mother's mouth is that she was going to have an abortion no ifs, ands or buts about it. Her own mother wants to give her the morning after pill without the girls knowledge. Shouldn't the mother be arrested for that? Harming a minor?

.

There are thousands of 'wanted' children brought into the world every day. Then they face life head-on. The 'un' shows up in wanted real soon, especially in a family as dysfunctional as this. But we all have the right to make our own mistakes and she's got one that will hopefully not turn out badly for the baby. But parental responsibility runs both ways, regardless of a pregnancy. The anti-abortion folks can get all high and mighty because a fetus is involved but car crash or conception, the parents bear some responsibility. In this case more preventive responsibility would have been a life-changer.

I went back and re-read the article on the link posted above. I realize it says Denise (the mom) had had 4 abortions, but we all know how the media is, they DO make mistakes. Maybe they missed stating that "Denise says REK had 4 abortions", (or they substituted Denise's name instead of REK's initials). Who knows, but I wouldn't take the author of that article at their (media) word.

The baby is wanted. There are a lot of would-be parents on waiting lists, wanting to adopt.

Sadly, the baby probably won't go up for adoption until it is badly damaged, and even then, there will be some nutcase relative who won't allow the adoption to proceed unless they are promised visitations and holidays to Disneyland with the kids, or some judge who thinks that the biological parent(s) deserve another chance.

The generation of life begins when a sperm enters an egg, the spark, the beginning of life. Some say that this little "spark" does not equate to life until it is more recognizable as a baby and is therefore disposable.

The baby is wanted. By a to-be mother with excellent skills, abilities, and resources.

The baby is hosed.

If it was the pro-choice side that was backing her choice it would be a wonderful thing but since the pro-life side is backing her choice they must be taking advantage of the situation. Looks like you don't agree with her choice. Sounds like you are pro-abortion, not pro-choice. This is the reason that I don't trust either side. Neither one is willing to admit when the other side is doing something good.

I think this is still a question of personal liberty and freedom.