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Blake Page, a former cadet at West Point, faces "recoupment" for leaving the prestigious academy just months before graduation. That could mean being ordered back to active duty or paying up to $250,000.
An Army cadet who left West Point just months shy of his graduation to make a high-profile protest of religious proselytizing at the school now faces Pentagon demands that he repay the cost of his education — either through active-duty service or by paying as much as $250,000.
The notification this week that he would be hit up for the fees blindsided Blake Page, 24, who says that top leadership at West Point assured him that "recoupment" of costs for his taxpayer-funded education would be waived when he left the school in December.
The Army’s move to deny the waiver — rejecting recommendations of the three-star general who runs West Point — was within its authority, but unusual enough to raise eyebrows.
"As a general matter, the secretary of the Army usually follows recommendations that come up through the chain of command," Philip Cave, a retired Navy judge advocate who practices military law in Alexandria, Va.
Page’s supporters see demand for recoupment as punishment for a scathing commentary he wrote calling attention to what he considers illegal Christian proselytizing at West Point and discrimination against non-religious cadets. The commentary was published in The Huffington Post as he was leaving.
"Countless officers here and throughout the military are guilty of blatantly violating the oaths they swore to defend the Constitution," Page wrote in a Dec. 3 commentary entitled "Why I don’t want to be a West Point Graduate."
Original report by NBC News: West Point cadet quits, cites 'criminal behavior' of officers
He said the academy’s leaders were guilty of "unconstitutional proselytism, discrimination against the non-religious and establishing formal policies to reward, encourage and even at times require sectarian religious participation."
The way recoupment works is that if a student attends at least two years at the taxpayers’ expense, and then does not finish for reasons they could control — especially misconduct or poor performance — they are required to repay the government, said Cave. If things out of their control cause their departure, including many medical conditions, recoupment can be waived.
Page had been diagnosed with clinical depression during his time there and was told that he was not qualified to be a commissioned officer, according to military documents. Nonetheless, he said, he was in good academic standing and on track to graduate in May.
But the senior classman, a self-described atheist, decided to forego his diploma.
"I could have stayed and graduated," said Page, who established a Secular Students Association at West Point. "By resigning I was able to make a very loud and bold statement. I believe it had some positive impact on the non-religious cadets."
Page's supporters believe he’s being punished — apparently not by West Point, but the Pentagon — for his unflattering portrayal of academy.
"This may be the clearest example I’ve ever seen of reprisal and retribution," said Mikey Weinstein, the president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, a nonprofit watchdog group that battles evangelism infused in military business. "It sends an extremely dangerous message to anyone who wants to stand for their constitutional rights."
Weinstein, who recently brought Page on as his assistant at the nonprofit, says that in December he and Page separately received assurances from West Point leadership that the former cadet would not be called into active duty or handed a huge bill for his early departure.
In a memorandum dated Dec. 12, the superintendent of West Point, Lt. Gen. David Huntoon, did recommend to Army headquarters that Page be honorably discharged and that recoupment — in the form of money or service as an enlisted soldier — be waived.
The response, signed by Thomas R. Lamont, assistant Army secretary, approves Page for an honorable discharge, but disapproves the waivers. In the Jan. 28 memorandum, he orders the West Point superintendent "to conduct a recoupment investigation."
"They have to provide a line by line breakdown of the costs that were incurred from (Page) being there," said Maj. Scott R. Johnson, who is a liaison with West Point at the Department of the Army.
The amount varies from one case to another. But the estimated cost of attending four years at West Point is estimated at $200,000-$250,000. The military could also order Page back to active duty.
Asked why Huntoon’s recommendations on Page’s behalf were rejected, Johnson said:
"We are an impartial third party. We review each individual packet … There’s merit to an organization such as the academy and a three-star general making a recommendation. But if it were always in their favor, there would be no reason for us to review the packets."
Once the Pentagon demands recoupment, there’s not much recourse for the soldier, according to Cave, the Virginia attorney.
"To the extent that there might be remedy, there’s not effective remedy," he said.
Weinstein is threatening legal action.
"My message for the Army is they better be ready to face a whistleblower lawsuit," he said. "If they are not going to fairly state why they are doing this, they can tell it to the 12 members of a federal jury."
Meantime Page, who now lives in Minnesota, is finishing up a certification program to work as a personal trainer. He's also written a book about his experiences, which he hopes will generate some revenue.
Asked what will he do if the military sends him a bill for $200,000, he responds: "File for bankruptcy, I guess."
Leave a Comment:
That's terrible that the U.S. military can't understand that this country is not a theocracy and we have separation of religion and government. Good for you, Mr. Page, for taking a stand against it! It's a shame that it came at the expense of your degree. I hope you are able to enroll and graduate from another school that does not try to force its students to become religious Christians, and I hope that either the Pentagon reverses its decision to charge you for tuition, or else you win a lawsuit against the federal government, and obtain a ruling preventing religious coercion at West Point.
This guy is obviously unfit to be a platoon leader, he and the Army know it. He knew it when he started and only wanted the education.
The court system will destroy our military.
Really lalaw, he knew exactly what he was doing, trying to get an education and then claiming some BS so he could get out of his military service, it happens all the time, this time he's making some noise and he will have to pay, good, he should and we don't want his whinney a$$ type in the militay anyways, he'd probably end up doing harm to himself, or to others...good riddence!!!
He was already in the Army before he went to USMA you tard. I was in the same unit as him in South Korea.
For you ignoramuses saying he was trying to get a free ride through college, guess what?
He already did have a free ride! He was Enlisted before he went, and I was there when our Commander (Who also happens to be a USMA graduate) gave the recommendation for him to go.
Page shouldn't have to deal with religious nutcases shoving their beliefs down his throat.
A quick biography on the writer, having been part of his company at one time.
Understanding Cadet Page would probably be the greatest asset to this post and the greatest asset in dissuading readers of his viability as a non-bias source of information. Cadet Page has had numerous instances throughout his experience in West Point in which he has been found lacking in standards. I will point to two instances of Cadet Page failing to uphold any standard while in a chain of command position. In the summer of 2011, Cadet Page was given a 1st Sergeant within Alpha Company during the Second Detail of the introductory training "BEAST" for cadet candidates. However, dissatisfied with the conduct of his superior officers, Cadet Page, instead of using proper channels, took a video of all that he thought was wrong with his regimental staff. When his ploy to remove his superiors with the help of fellow 1st Sergeants was thwarted, Cadet Page was summarily removed from any command position for the summer. The second incident spans all of the following semester when yet again, Cadet Page was given a 1st Sergeant position within G-3. Throughout his time as the 1st Sergeant, there were multiple incidents of him missing taps (mandatory report times at night) due to excessive alcohol intake. The final straw was after the Air Force Game in Colorado Springs where both his Commanding Officer and he missed the movement formation after consuming a large number of alcoholic drinks the night before. Thus, Cadet Page was removed from his second chain of command position, and the last one that he would hold as a cadet. Cadet Page’s interaction with the academy before he became such a staunch advocate of non-religious policy can be defined as one of misconduct and general subversion.
This post is only meant to expose those who believe that such a man is truly fighting for their rights to be non-religious. However, after examining his career within the academy, it is easy to identify that this cause perhaps is just the latest in a string of incidents in attempting to gain either recognition or notoriety for rejecting the system. Cadet Page’s standing in the academy derides any legitimate chance that this last-ditch attempt will succeed in garnering anything besides more scorn and ridicule. While I wish him the best of luck as a citizen of the greatest nation on Earth, I recognize this was never a profession for him.
You may call defending our Constitution "BS"; I call it bravery.
They tricked him into leaving, then once he did, they pulled the rug out from beneath him.
Why is it whenever someone stands up for the right thing, those who are opposed can only say "it's an attempt to gain either recognition or notoriety for rejecting the system"?
That excuse is old and wearing thin. Can't you come up with anything requiring more depth, thought and factual truth?
The military has never liked being told it needs to follow the law. It's about time they stop thinking of themselves as a separate, sovereign nation and that they can do as they damn well please.
The people feed and keep them going, and they are no better than the hand that feeds them.
I'd say that non-Christians here at West Point are "neglected" at worst, but "oppression" is exaggerated. Where are the invocations for Muslims? Where are the invocations for Buddhists? What about the Jews, the Wiccans, the Church of the Invisible Pink Unicorn?
The fact is, having a ceremony involving a chaplain quickly becomes infeasible if we absolutely must cater to absolutely everyone's particular religion. The other options then become serve the majority (oh you mean like a democracy? Imagine that) or nobody.
In this case, you must serve nobody or you are favoring one religion, which is prohibited by the First Amendment's Establishment Clause.
Democracy is about government and elected representatives, not simply about catering to the whims of the majority. We can't favor white people over black people because one is a majority and the other is a minority. By the same token, we cannot favor Christianity over any other religion.
I am a West Point Graduate not too @!$%#ing long ago. I have no religious affiliations. What this failed cadet is stating about the academy and it's religious misconduct is entirely false. Why he is choosing to lie and squabble over petty nonsense like this is something worth of a Hollywood drama queen. I'm glad he didn't graduate. West Point is a school intended for the instruction of young men who will become leaders of warriors. Cadet Page does not deserve to be a leader of America's Warriors and does not deserve a diploma from West Point. I wish him nothing but failure and hope this matter dies fast so that he can quickly lose the ten minutes of fame that he sought.
TrenT:
Wow! Are you a microcosm example of how taxpayers' money is being wasted? We deserve a refund.
No matter if Cadet Page is right or wrong. Your classless attitude is deplorable.
Thank you, Mr. Page, for taking the Constitution, et al, to a practical level - the importance of separation of church and state. Tho not succintly written, the Founding Fathers realized the dangers of a country mired in any single religion - or none at all.
This article is total BS. As with all academies - you can walk away after two years at no cost. after that - it is up to you. The idea that he would get a 4 year degree at no cost is a sham. People are also ignorant of the 'separation' of church and state. Did the academy establish a church? Did they mandate a religion? I hardly think so.
It doesn't have to establish a church. How would the academy like it if everyone being made to repeat the invocation included thanking Buddha, Allah, the Sun God, etc., etc.? Or even thanking the non existence of any god?
If you're going to include one christian "god", it's only fair to include them all. It may take up most of the day, but hey, time is on the taxpayers dime and the taxpayers are no strangers to waste.
This is the New Apostolic Reformation freak show trying "hold dominion" over one of C Peter Wagner's "7 Mountains". They have invaded every aspect of our country and are trying to destroy it from within so that they can remake it into a corporate theocracy. They have some sick, twisted idea that their fictional father figure wont come back for them until the control the entire world, from the government, to the military, to the educational system. If you here about something that seems just to bizarre and evil to really be happening, 9 times out of 10 you can trace it back to these wingnuts and their desire to control the world.
"The emerging apostolic movement will be built on a sharp increase of the apostolic call to serve in the Kingdom. Like an army, this new apostolic company will throw down their nets and rise at the command of the Lord of Hosts. Hearing the call, they will aggressively engage the enemy, taking his territory in the greatest campaign in history: the evangelization of planet Earth before the second coming of the Lord Jesus...."
Us "non-believers" being "the enemy".
If they told him he could go without repercussion then they should honor that promise regardless of whether you thought what he did was wrong or right.
Are the "credits" he earned transferable to another institution? If not then he didn't really "earn" anything that is of value if he left months before graduation. Think about it. He still doesn't have a degree...
The person whom told him he could leave without reprocussion did not have the authority to make that decision. It sucks but things like that happen in the military all the time. The fact of the matter is you have to pay for your education, be it 6 years in active service or $250,000, unless you are unable to finish for medical reasons. Medical reasons prevented him from serving his 6 years, not finishing college. Had he graduated, he would have recieved a medical discharge upon completion of his studies. He chose to leave on his own free will. The article above quotes him as saying "I could have stayed and graduated," said Page, who established a Secular Students Association at West Point. This discredits the assumption that he had to leave and proves that it was his choice. Thus, he has to pay the recoupment. He was prior service when he joined the academy and understood the regulations and rules. When he signed that contract he agreed to all the rules and regulations of the US Army. Like it or not, the choice is not his as to whether he has to follow them are not. If you exempt this young "man" from paying his due and following regulation, then where do you stop. Every soldier in the Army who decides they don't want to be in anymore will cry religious fowl. No, Mr. Page must pay his due. I undertand people get by regulations all the time, while I was in the Leadership didn't do many of the things required of them by the same regulations they forced down our throat, but thats what you get when politics play a bigger role in military promotions than actual leadership capabilities. But I am getting off track. Mr. Page has to be accountable for his decision. If he wants to sue over the treatment of other religions at the Academy, that is his choice, but he signed the contract and took the oath, and he decided to void that contract and now he must pay for his decision.
But, if he is now longer in the Military, The UCMJ does not apply to matters of finance but is civil. Bankruptcy or a Re-Payment Plan would be required to discharge the Financial Debt. If he chose to get the Loan, he should also be given the Degree he has earned but refused to take.
He wasted taxpayer dollars. Youth need to learn responsibility for their actions. He should be required to serve ... to repay our country for the funds he so frivilously extracted from us.
He suffered mentally from his Father's death and the military determined that even if he completed his training, he was ineligible for the promotion that accompanies the degree. It's not like the military was deprived of a potential officer, considering they determined him unfit for command due to severe depression. Kind of puts an end to those rumors that he claimed religious oppression to get out of serving, doesn't it? And for those accusing him of cowardice, to enlist with two active wars waging and further unrest in many other potential boiling pots doesn't sound like the actions of a coward to me. Even if he is or was discharged for medical reasons, he'd still have the equivalent of an honorable discharge making him a veteran. That fact alone garners my respect, I guess there are many out there who don't feel that way about our vets.
He waited till his final year of schooling before he decided he couldn't take it anymore? That's outrageous. Unless they were constantly calling on him to pray out loud for the other soldiers he should have been able to withstand it. Christians see this all the time in NY, where West Point is located. NY is the most liberal place around. You think "NY" christians don't have to deal with other religions(including atheism)?
This is just another guy looking for attention. He deserves to pay back the college for everything, because he did not complete his duty as an officer. he was getting closer to graduation and I think that he got scared that he might have to put all his military training to use.
So I guess all that prayer was a reminder to him about his father meeting God then, right? Kind of a reminder? I think that was the real reason he couldn't take the prayer anymore after waiting 4 years. He probably blamed God for his father's death and determined that because his father still died, therefore there must be no God.
By the way, look below at what NJ person is saying about West Point. the post # 7.10.
LaLaw, I appreciate your viewpoint. However, there are a LOT of things here that don't pass the "Smell Test" not the least of which is this assumption by our culture over the last 50 years that anything EXCEPT Christianity is acceptable in public institutions. Marxism, WICCA, Secular Students association. Yep, all dandy. I'm okay with allowing them freedom of conscience as long as MY FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE is respected as well.
Sounds to me like we're seeing the standard Political Atheism of Marx at work here. Marxist Counterpropaganda demands that you CLAIM PERSECUTION by any institution YOU want to see persecuted. When Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were on trial for giving secrets of the H-bomb to that wonderful human being STALIN, NYC Marxists were out in the street screaming "Anti-Semitism" when they were merely providing counterpropaganda covering fire for their FELLOW COMMUNISTS. "Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counteraccusations" [ANDEMCA]--Leon Trotsky (real name Leon Bronstein).
It is generally forgotten, intentionally, the "or prohibiting free exercise thereof" portion of the First Amendment, when LIMITING the freedom of Christians, including those in the military, to freely express their beliefs. Gotta SHOUT DOWN anything that might lead people to belief in God, or any authority other than government.
The First Amendment-writing Founders’ devotion to God prompted them to want to guarantee the maximum freedom for individuals to believe as they chose, not government enforcing one denomination over another. Their upbringing and culture brought the assumptions on morality that they read from the Bible.
President John Adams, an indispensible Founder, addressed this freedom bounded by the morality driven by faith in a "Message from John Adams to the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the
Militia of Massachusetts; John Adams, October 11, 1798"
"...we have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
Or, as the Libertarian Party of Boulder website put it: "Where morality is present, laws are unnecessary. Without morality, laws are unenforceable." [www.lpboulder.org/quotes]
This is YOUR history and heritage. Merely because you were prevented from being taught this central aspect of American history does not make it untrue. It certainly bears on the understandings and
meanings derived from the cultural context of the First Amendment which is about freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. This would leave no room, NONE, for the government or any branch of the military to ENFORCE ATHEISM for fear of someone suing over others' freedom to speak of one's faith. When the ARMY and the government become the THOUGHT POLICE, we are not far from Orwell's 1984 or Marx's Glorious Tyranny of the Proletariat.
This young man either needs to fulfill his contract or pay the taxpayers back for his world-class education, even if there just might be some of those AWFUL Christians at West Point.
Since the ex-cadet is no longer a member of the Military. Sue the piss out of West Point, embarrass the hell out of them, and still pay nothing.
The guy made his decision to quit. He should've taken into consideration the chance he may have to pay back the cost. Needless to say Mr. Weinstein has threatened to file a lawsuit if they don't get their way. That always resolves the issues! lol
just one more nut case trying to get his 5 minutes of fame.
Sue West Point. The military has turned into a Christian Crusade filled with self-righteous Fundies. They need to simmer down and focus on fighting, not dragging a non-violent pacifist like Jesus Christ into it.
Lee, you must have the wrong West Point, look to another country maybe.....
Steeler,
You think his claims have no merit at all when they still hold organized prayers before social events at the College?
You are absolutely correct Steelermama. The Chaplin service needs to be stamped out, it serves nothing anymore. If soldiers have problems, they need to talk to a licensed psychologist/psychiatrist, not someone that is going to tell them they just "need more churchin' up!". Security clearance be dammed. If you have a serious psychological issue, talk to qualified people. If they decide you shouldn't work with cleared material, than you shouldn't work with cleared material.
West Point and the DOD need to stop proselytizing and get back to their job. I hear the DOD needs to make some cuts buget-wise. Guess what, cut the Chaplin service!!!
Anyone who has visited NY and have known people who graduated from West Point knows this is BS.
Perhaps that is why so many of you think that it is West Point's fault. This guy is playing on your emotions. He already stated that he couldn't continue because of his father's death. Maybe the fact that people on campus praying is a reminder to him, that there might be a God and his father might be in hell.
Lee, you're an idiot. He knew exactly what he was getting into when he received his appointment. He also signed a contract where he promised to become an officer upon his completion of school at West Point. If he failed to receive a degree, or left for any other reason other than what is specified (by JAG) by the military, then he either has to pay back the money for his education or serve as an enlisted soldier for a specified number of years. If he doesn't do either, then the military can go after him for breech of contract and he can be sentenced to serve time at Ft. Levenworth, KS. Both you and he need to realize that this is part of the consequences for his actions.
Um, lessee. The House and Senate still have PAID CHRISTIAN CHAPLAINS on the payroll and have since the Founders penned the First Amendment. Zap the chaplains?
Heard tell (CONGRESSIONAL RECORD) that President Thomas Jefferson organized and attended CHRISTIAN CHURCH SERVICES in the CAPITOL BUILDING. He may of been an "honest doubter" but he ensured that pastors from MULTIPLE CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS had teaching positions at his beloved University of Virginia.
Enforced Atheism, or another cadet not wanting to serve his obligation? The Founders would not have approved of either...
You don't bite the hand that feed's you Blake.
There's a big difference between "feeding" and having religious manure shoved down your throat.
You must be on the ethic's committee?
Since none of you knew Page personally let me fill you ignoramuses in.
Specialist Page (as I knew him) was one of the most intelligent people I knew while we were stationed in South Korea. He is not the kind of person to "Screw the Army out of a college education". He already has a free ride through college via the Post 9/11 GI Bill or the Montgomery GI Bill, either of which he can choose to use.
As for you couch commandos saying he isn't fit to be a platoon leader, I would follow his lead any day. He's smart, is able to think on his feet, and obviously by this article and others that he has written, isn't afraid to stand up for his beliefs.
He is absolutely right in standing up for himself in this situation. If he doesn't believe in whatever it is you believe, then why should he have to stand for others shoving it down his throat?
Thanks for having my back Colin! There will always be internet trolls that don't know 1/1000th of the reality behind the headlines bent on throwing out an opinion free of evidence. It's good to know that the soldiers who saw my performance in uniform know where my motivations lie.
Blake, you know full well there is no forced religious activities at this academy (this is coming from an atheist firstie). Frankly, this confirms how much of a horrible person people thought you were. I'm sure you were removed from command positions and picked on by your TACs for excessive drinking because you were an atheist.
The fact that those who knew you as a specialist (a follower), obviously thought well of you, and had an amount of respect. Those who knew you as a cadet (a leader) had no respect for you. Your track record as a specialist (a follower) was obviously good enough to get you a recommendation and an appointment to USMA. Your track record while at USMA was pathetic. You were unable to keep the two leadership roles you were assigned to. Both of these were due to personal failures. One of you not knowing how to handle a situation regarding your chain of command, the second due to failing yourself and having no self control with your alcohol intake. If you can't even control yourself, how can you control a platoon? You are unfit to be a leader, and this shows by every comment of someone who knew you while at USMA. Also, you might look into rehab for being an alcoholic. Missing formations and mandatory events (especially one at USAFA, where everyone watches you even more stringently) due to excess drinking, is a sign of being an alcoholic. Maybe you do have a god, an idol, a fallback, a need. Perhaps it is alcohol.
Colin , you are the ignoramus , NO SOLDIER OR REAL MAN would run from a fight to go hide behind a building or others to throw rocks , especially when the damage that enemy could inflict on you is so trivial , this coward , if he felt so strongly , should have stayed , documented any real persecutions & presented them within the chain of command ALL THE WAY TO THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF IF NECESSARY & not stopped fighting till that percieved enemy was either dead (allegorically speaking) or surrendered. THAT is the makeup of a true soldier & a man. AND dont try feeding me that bull that he felt he could do more good to serve the cause from outside the entity he was seeking to bring any change to , THAT IS A COPOUT !!!
How about all of you making libelous remarks about Blake provide your real names? Or would that expose you as internet trolls pretending to be cadets?
They're not pretending. They speak the lingo. Any service academy grad can read their posts and know they're cadets. There are certain nuances in the way they talk about him and about West Point that easily identify them as the real deal, not "trolls." I'm sure each one of them would say it right to his face too. But this is the internet, haha. Since when do we use our real names.
I ask this of the folks claiming he was taken off of command for transgressions: if he was not fit to be a cadet (leader) as you say then why was he still on target to graduate? Wouldn't they have made accommodations for him to not graduate from West Point which would have enabled him to lead?
godless vet , if u r in fact a vet , courts have ruled that an id can be obtained from an internet service provider or from a website such as facebook or myspace or here , in instances of liable or slander or where laws have been broken , all that coward has to do is file a suit & his lawyer will know what to do
I think all that prayer on campus was reminding him of his father's death and he couldn't take it anymore.
Blake did you see what else they wrote about you? Look at NJ person post #7.10.
I spent just under 9 years in the US Army. I received my degree from a state funded university. I had to pay for my education. The Lt. Gen. in charge of West Point recommended that he not be called to active duty and that no action for recoupement be taken. The West Point Commander recommended, he couldn't promise that no action would be taken. When he signed that contract to go to West Point, it was up to Mr. Page to read the contract before signing. He spent almost 4 years, at taxpayer expense, getting one of the best educations available. His case was reviewed, along with the USMA commander's recommendation, as is the policy with all other cadets that do not fulfill their contracts. On Mr. Page's case, the military agreed that he shouldn't be called to active duty. However, there must've been something in the file that showed that he could've completed his degree and graduated. If he can't realize that signing that West Point contract was the same as signing his enlistment contract, then he doesn't deserve to wear the uniform of a United States Soldier. As for my information, I live in Alamogordo, NM. My name is Neil McFarland. If Mr. Page feels that he needs to file suit, go ahead. Since he let his story be published, he is subject to criticism (both good and bad). However, he needs to go back and check his government classes. This falls under the protection of the 1st Amendment.
No sympathy for this young man. He is obligated to either serve his country or to pay back this country, which funded his education. Somewhere in the US is a person who would have been there, had this ungrateful wretch deceided early not to attend. As I said, no sympathy. Lace up your boots and march cadet! Sempre Vigilante!!!
While a Cadet at West Point I certainly was given opportunities to practice Christianity and any other faith. Not once did I feel compelled or prejudiced by not attending Church or actively or inactively displaying Christianity. Nor did I find any cadets who felt this way. I suppose if I were looking for some sort of influence to practice Christianity I could have found it but I think Cadet Page was being extremely sensitive at finding an objection to his agnosticism. Also every Cadet was well aware of the risk of being asked for reimbursement or being required to serve should he choose to leave the Academy beyond their second year.
I'm not an agnostic, I'm an atheist. Secular Humanist to be more precise. And sensitive? Ha! If only you knew... If you want to know you can buy my book when it comes out later in the year. I'm far from sensitive.
To the point though, your experience, at whatever time it may have been, was not the same experience universal to all cadets. You will probably doubt me when I say this, but the overwhelming majority of cadets that I represent as the Director of MRFF Affairs at West Point are actually religious. These cadets take issue with their peers, chain of command, instructors, chaplains, TACs, and other faculty members pressuring them to proscribe to a singular philosophical belief over all others. Now that Humanists are organizing, we are realizing at West Point, USAFA, USNA and at military installations throughout the world that members of the chain of command will actively resist providing equal resources to humanist servicemen and women. The MRFF wouldn't exist if the problem didn't exist.
And lastly, yes, I was perfectly aware of the risk of recoupment. If it comes down, I'll find a way to deal with it. I'm a resourceful SOB. The reason this is a story, is because of the circumstances surrounding it. Why would the military seek recoupment when it was already established that if I had continued to be a burden to the taxpayers through graduation I would NOT be required to pay recoupment or serve? Why is HQDA going against the Supe's recommendation, a decision that virtually never happens?
You got your education, you quit..now it is time to pay for your education like all other college students.
So, funny story... Back in December, when this news broke, I wrote a note outlining why Page was clearly lying.
Page then invited a ton of his friends from various Atheist groups (I have nothing against Atheists, but the fact is that they were from Atheist groups) to come both on the thread and in various blogs around the Net to trash me for claiming that Page is lying.
That was very classy, Blake. I loved seeing my name pop up on your friends' websites and getting slandered. It was wonderful.
I also thought it was just great you felt it was fine to slander our classmates and the faculty at the Academy, and to give Atheists who are applying to the Academy the impression they aren't wanted there, which couldn't be further from the truth.
I'm sorry so many things have happened to you, but guess what? I went through a lot of @!$%#, too, and I didn't need a sorry-ass excuse to get past my problems.
You took the easy way out, and now, you're going to have to pay. I hope you learn something from this.
I can see the Protestant Chapel from my barracks - this place hates Atheists!
Having at one time being in a class with Mr. Page, my instructor asked him "What do you plan on doing when you leave?". Standard question for someone outprocessing the Academy. Most answers have something to do with what school they will go to next but no, this guy responds with "Get High" to a Major in the United States Army. Not very professional at all. Also, if we here at the Academy were shoving religion down peoples' throat, why is he the only one who has brought it up. The "mandatory prayer" he cites in his HP article can only refer to one thing, the benediction at any formal dinner we have. The prayer is to the Christian God and if you do not worship Him then you stand there for a minute and let the person finish their prayer and move on with life. There is never a prayer to Allah, Buddha, or another Higher Being and I've never heard of a Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, or other complaining about praying to the Christian God. There are plenty of things that I can tolerate fellow cadets doing but using a decent writing skill to stretch the truth is not one of them. As Brooklyn22 has already stated, Page, as a Cadet was relieved of command twice, abused alcohol, had a generally bad attitude and used the stretching of the truth to try to smear the Academy's image. He also took an oath before the first day of his Junior year saying that he understood the consequences of leaving after lesson one of his Junior year. He understood what the consequences were and now must face those consequences.
Are we really suppose to believe that it's Blake writing these posts??? H#ll no...otherwise he would be held liable for the costs of his education out of the "royalties" from his book...LOl
A question for you Blake: does the scope of your education easily applies to the private sector?
@save the environment
The education received at West Point is top notch. All of the engineering degrees are ABET accredited and rated very highly by many sources. Many alumni have gone on to have very successful lives in the private sector. The CEOs of 7/11, Johnson & Johnson, Wendy's, Goodrich Corp, and Proctor and Gamble are all alumni. West Point is a standard university, we just have a little extra that we do to prepare us to lead soldiers.
This guy, Blake, sounds like he's just after attention, or he's prejudiced against believers. Assuming the other grads & cadets who replied above are real, sounds like Blake was a complete failure at USMA. Was that due to his incompetence; was it his intention; or, is it because he was an outspoken atheist? As an '01 grad, and non-believer, I never felt like religion was forced down my throat. Sure, it felt like going to chapel was the only way to find peace and quiet as a plebe, but there wasn't a priest or anyone in there demanding my prayers, just respect. I knew plenty of other atheists, who had more influence on me than the christians, and I never felt like our beliefs held us back. Could be that I was naive and didn't see it, but then again I did much better than this ate up cadidiot...
Steelermama (7.6)...
Your post started me thinking about something, so I did some checking. This article was posted on NBC on 2/14/2013. "Blake Page" became a Newsvine member in 2/2013 .. just for this article. He has no other NV history. The same applies to the following: brooklyn22, atheist-7766370, TrentT, ColinC, acadet, Anothercadet, Charles Clymer, jeepman1992, ClydeBragg, and DcincO.
godlessveteran became a member in 1/2013, so I don't know if the same applies to him/her, but it's very possible.
Interesting, hmmm?
I didn't have time or interest to check every single NV commentator who claims to know "Blake Page" but just the above list of names seems to indicate a pattern that something strange is afoot here.
Ten people, pro or con, don't "happen" to join NV within the same two week period, find, and comment only on one specific article without some sort of networking. I've been an active NV member for 5+ years and have never seen this happen before.
I agree with you that if "Blake" is involved in legal issues, the last thing he should be doing is publicly comment about them. That he goes further and brags about a book deal on top of everything else is ludicrous when he hasn't even settled his accounts with West Point. LOL
-------------------------------
More about Blake Page (many more on the Internet) ...
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/10/at_west_point_you_need_to_believe_in_god/
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/urban-game-changer/2012/dec/18/west-point-religious-institution-case-blake-page/
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/12/04/west-pointer-quits-over-proselytizing.html
The bottom line, folks, is that it took Blake Page almost FOUR YEARS at West Point (plus prior years of military service) to figure out that West Point was not his atheist cup of tea. He should have known this before enlisting in the Army and then done further homework before he filled out his USMA application and requested his recommendations! But, he now doesn't want to pay back his FREE EDUCATION???
According to NBC, Blake was "blindsided?" You swore an oath, "Cadet Blake." If you don't remember it, here it is:
http://www.army.mil/values/oath.html
Oath of Enlistment
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
You now claim "religious victimhood" after 6+ years of military time. Your GPA was a mere 2.8, a history of drunken behavior and disobeying your officers. As articles stated, you claimed depression - did you seek help? There's no proof that you did. But, you avidly found a lawyer when you concocted a loophole to try to get out of paying back all of the money US taxpayers gave you for your free education.
You're not fit to wipe the boots of Thayer, R.E.Lee, Jefferson Davis, Sherman, Grant, McClellen, Stonewall Jackson, MacArthur, Patton, DDE.
Whoever you are, and whatever you choose to believe ... You need a serious reality check as to how the military and the real world works, young man.
well stated, NJ person.
I fully agree with Former Army. Page knew what was going to happen. He should remember back to Basic Training. On Sundays, for the first couple of weeks, you are escorted into church services. If he didn't file suit then, why do it now?
Alamo -- you have a point there. I too remember those days at basic. You did have religious "choice". You could choose attending the protestant or Catholic service. That was your freedom of choice. If you "chose" neither, you were allowed to stay in the barracks ... but only if you spent that time cleaning it or on some other detail.
I usually picked Protestant. It started an hour later and was easier to nap through. (No offense intended, just the truth from my experience -- in basic you took every opportunity you could find for a few extra minutes of sleep.)
All that aside, it doesn't mean that Page isn't correct. I don't believe the military should force religion on its members ... and if people are honest, they'l admit that happens. I do believe that individual commanders have a great deal of influence over how much of that happens at various installations. I've seen it from almost none to extremely heavy.
If you are allowed to worship in church, or work during that time, it doesn't really sound much like religious freedoms, does it?
You have got to be kidding me! How can anyone sympathize with this pathetic con artist. So, it took him close to 4 years to come to this conculsion--after reaping the benefits of a free education. Why in the hell should the taxpayers have to foot the bill for his deception? Reimburse the taxpayers for your education either monetarily or by serving your country. People like this make me sick. Just like those who milk that govt for medical school via the military and then cry when they are finally called to serve--oh, I didn't think that I would actually be called up. Unbelievable! I am glad that the Army is taking a hard line in this case.
As a Christian minister of the gospel, I support you, Blake. I do understand the point of some who feel you should pay, but I feel you have been targeted because of your objection to being proselytized, or more because you dared oppose the powers that be. I'm a Christian because I choose to be, not because it was strongly suggested to me that, for my own well being, I'd better consider it as my first option. I don't believe Christianity (or any religion) has the right to use government or military pressure to "convert" anyone. I'm sorry you've been made a target and example in this matter.
Clydamus , then why did it take so long ? I am a christian , a vet & a taxpayer & i say , if you enter into an agreement , you stand by it , scripture says let your yes be yes & your no be no. Scripture is full of ppl keeping their word , remember when the israelites were entering into the promised land & they were visited by a group of ppl that appeared to have traveled a great distance & they lied to the israelites & asked to be spared conquest & even though they lied , the israelites honored their word , You sir dont understand honor . It does not matter what another person does & your excuse for not doing as you promised , should never be to blame another. This man is giving a supposed group of ppl , power/control over himself & saying they control his actions & that is the worst excuse imagineable . Remember Adams excuse? The woman made me eat of the fruit , it didnt wash in God's eyes & will not in mine. If he felt the WP was wrong , his duty & word & honor would require that he institute change from within , not breaking his word & attacking from without. He lost what moral ground he held when his actions showed his word was worth less than any hostility or pressure he felt , wether real or percieved.
The evidence does not exist. This original article is based off his accusations, the majority of which have been discredited due to his reputation among his peers.
While it is important to have religious freedoms, he is making himself a martyr for a cause that only he advocates. If these accusations are true, how come more cadets have not spoken up? Where are the rest of his proselytized victims?
The fact of the matter is that he dropped before graduation, hoping for a golden handshake from USMA, and when he did not get it, he went to the press.
CONTINUED, i would never want to be in combat with a man like this (a gate guard in friendly south korea isnt combat) & i DEFINITELY wouldnt want to be in a POW camp with an individual who would so easily compromise his word/worth so easily . He needs to look at ppl that faced REAL persecution & prejudices & see how they handled themselves to fight injustice , some made the ultimate sacrifice & paid for fighting wrongs. This man is a whiner & not deserving of more news page self promotion to sell a book or avoid deployment or payment of a bill. His justification for his actions are an excuse, not a real reason.
Re: Clydamus (#9) ...
Says another "new" Newsviner ... joined 2/2013 ... no history except for this one post to support Blake.
As an American citizen and taxpayer, you should support the US Constitution instead of a slacker who "suddenly" realizes that West Point is contrary to his trumped up beliefs.
You people are so pathetically transparent!
LOL
Bravo for Clydamus, the Christian minister of the gospel, who appears to understand the situation better than those knee-jerk reactionaries who criticize Blake Page. Members of the dominant culture, be it by race or religion, usually appear unable to step outside themselves and even BEGIN to imagine what it's like to NOT be a member of that culture--and this is a case in point. Fish don't notice water, because they can't imagine NOT being in water.
Please sign my petition for the Army to waive all charges and service of Blake Page.
Petition
no
HELL NO!!!!
Blake should be made to join a Mormon Missionary Group go overseas (like Muslim Africa or Asia) as a missionary for four years at say $45,000 per year to pay his debt to the government ... then we can call the debt paid. The skills he learned in the Army would be of benefit to some poor people. Call it PAYING HIS FAIR SHARE.
If he doesn't agree, OBAMA should order a DRONE STRIKE on his sanctimonious, though clinically depressed @$$ as an example to other whinners in government service.
The taxpayers demand to have their money back ... The money is needed for OBAMACARE and WELFARE and to abort the yet unborn minorities via PLANNED PARENTHOOD.
He knew what the Army was all about when he voluntered ... Hell he probably is a HOMOSEXUAL but that issue was played out ... so he jumped on the religious abuse wagon.
Payback the money or do a Missionary Position ...
Good job. You managed to combine bigotry, vulgarity, anti-abortion insanity, veiled rape threats, and death wishes all in one post. Jesus must be proud.
Pontifex: Very christian of you.
OK ... Blake has a problem with Mormons and / or Missionary Positions ... How about the PEACE CORPS? That should go for FIVE YEARs though ... no benefits.
Asked what will he do if the military sends him a bill for $200,000, he responds:
"File for bankruptcy, I guess."
GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE KID ... the government will hound you until the day you die for the money ... Ever hear of Wage Garnishment?
Murders get less time than the people that have stolen a dime from the US Government ... Who Do Ya think you are: Systems 123? SOLYNDRA?
Unless you are connected to the Commander 'n Thief OBAMA - you are screwed.
Your idealism has put your life in the crapper ... you just haven't been flushed yet.
And of course the inevitable racist slander against the President.
Not that I agree with Pontifex in anyway, but where is anything he said in the above post racist. Obama is a horrible president. Stating that fact does not make you racist.
godlessveteran, thank you first of all for your service. And, to paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, it does me no harm whether my neighbor believes in one true God, twenty gods, or no god.
But before you use the label HATER on anyone YOU hate, including any of us who may have an opinion different from the President, please use the terminology correctly. And I saw no reference, NONE, to the President's ethnicity in the post by Pontifex.
Anyone who is crazy enough to actually EXERCISE their rights under the First Amendment, and differ with the Demmunist party, is a NAZI/RACIST/SEXIST/HOMOPHOBE/HOLOCAUST-DENYING ANTI-SEMITE and American Taliban until proven otherwise by white-guilt-driven campaign contributions to the Demmunists or points further Left. We are politically incorrect in the extreme, the villainous targets to be demonized by all left-leaning propaganda, oops, I mean journalism. Just ask the editors of the New York Times and the Washington Post, which until the last few years have set the agenda for all American news media. OBTW, according to a book by a prior USAF and ex-CIA counter-intel and counter-terrorism expert [Kent Clizbe, Willing Accomplices, Ashburn, VA: ANDEMCA Press, 2011—available on Kindle from Amazon.com and in paperback from KentClizbe.com] Political Correctness was a ready-made ideology designed to demoralize and divide America which was infused into Academia, Hollywood, and the press since the 1920s and 1930s by influence agents of Dzerzhinsky's KGB. Hollywood’s Otto Katz, George S. Counts of Columbia University Teacher’s College and the New York Times were specific vehicles (either “dupes” or else “willing accomplices”) for Willi Muenzenberg’s creed [as recounted by his wife, Babette Gross--any relation to NPR's Terry Gross??] which advanced the main goals of communism while specifically avoiding self-identification with Stalin’s Soviet Union. Some interesting reading, highly referenced and persuasive—if you dare...
I was in the army a long time ago but I well remember that we were forced to go to church during Basic training.
Sorry JJ but I remember that "long time ago" of 33 years ago and we were never forced to go to church. All had the option and most went because you got an hour's sleep during services.
I agree with JJ. We had a "choice" and that "choice" was Protestant or Catholic ... or a work detail. "Sleep" was NOT one of the choices ... unless of course we dozed off during the service!
I want my money back.
This young man knew from the 'git go" when he, and his family, were accepted into the honored halls of the United States Military Academy. I know these things from 3-very good sources so "I Know Of What I Speak'! Here are those 3-things: 1) I am a US Navy Retiree with 20-years service; 2) I served about 33 years totally in the Pentagon; and, the largest one is 3): My Grandson has applied for appointment the Military Academy and, although not a certainly, with his intelligence, his educational achievements, his athletic abilities in Football, Wrestling and in Cross Country Running, along with his desire to become an officer in the US Army and do his duty to serve and protect his country. I hope and Pray that he will be a cadet beginning this summer. I am absolutely proud of him and his twin sister of all that they have accomplished to date, and am excited of their future endeavors!
Now to the 'Nut Case" who, after accepting 3 1/2 years getting the greatest education in the country (and it is not only a free education that YOU actually pay for, assuming that you actually do pay taxes - but you folks probably do not know that during their time at the Military Academy these Cadets are also paid $600.00 per month by "YOU" the Tax Payer. Or that a portion of that 'allowance' is withheld and deposited into an account in the Cadets name, and when they graduates they will also receives that $4,800 plus earned interest, along with their Diploma and their Commission - ALL PAID FOR MY YOU.
It is a fact that you do not have to actually "commit" at the Academy until after the SECOND YEAR - at that point you can "OPT OUT" but you may have to serve time in the enlisted ranks, to "pay back the money you received while at the Academy', but, get this, you will still receive the full salary and all the benefits for the enlisted rank you attain during the period of your service. So you surely must realize that there is a 'hell-of-a-lot-of money-involved-here' which YOU HAVE PAID, AND WILL NEVER, EVER, NEVER GET BACK, and this is not simply a case of a "religious miracle happening" or something occurring near the "END OF COLLEGE THINGY", but what it is people, is actually this: The reality of this 'Coward' who is hiding behind the a 'religious cloth' of the Church in an attempt to justify his Cowardly actions - Or as they Say in some of the board games 'You don't really have to pass GO to be a Loser", and let me say it - Unfortunately this young man has done something very, very wrong, and he must, as he was taught at the Academy - using the "HONOR SYSTEM" fess up to the TRUTH and stop doing the Obama thing - which is (blaming ALL others for your lack of HONOR and/or COMMITMENT)!
Please have a nice day, and forget this dude, because, as they say 'He screw the Pooch and has found out he was the Pooch'. It is sad, but Go Figure, because there is much more truth here! Jack
Amen
If this were really an issue for him, don't you think he could have done himself and his cause more good as a respected and honored graduate of West Point and soldier in the Army? Now, to many, he looks like/is an alcoholic, trouble making, get rich quick wanna be, sore loser, drop out panty waste. As an outsider, I can tell you which "person" I would take more seriously.
When this story first broke, I thought, "This kid is a dumbass!" At that time, I hadn't read any comments or other articles. I see this story today and I just chuckled...karma's a bitch, you shouldn't take things like, a top of the line education, for granted. But today, I read the comments and Holy Lord...that's right, I said it!...dumbass is off the table. This kid has taken ungrateful, self righteous, fuktard to a whole new level. IMO, he's lucky he got "honorably" discharged. Somebody should have just shoved their boot up his ass and said See ya and hey don't be surprised when you get bloody discharge around that tomorrow!
Honestly, I'm being persecuted for nearly 4 years...but I'm strong, nobody is going to push me around and tell me what I can or can't do (especially not in the military!), I'm not giving up, just a couple more months and I'm home free....NAH, I QUIT. Yup, makes sense to me. Now I'm going to earn my "CERTIFICATE" so I can train people to eat right and work out. Meanwhile, I'm going to scream and shout and hopefully get enough conspiracy theory fans to buy my book about why I HAD to drop out of school 5 minutes before graduation thus going on to fame and fortune, even more than those SEAL guys, I'll show them, while I'm at it! (flash to picture of Blake with his chest puffed out in a camoflouge superman suit and cape on, A on the chest, cape flying in the wind, holier than thou look on his face). There's a thought for the cover of your stupid book!---End Rant
aaand you're my hero.
ladyhark, you hit the nail on the head. Why not get your commission and then fight for what's right.
This guy is a POC.There are so many young men and women who only wish they could get the appointment for West Point. Never during my 10 years of service was I forced to go to church or attend any religious functions, it was always provided as an option (So many LIARS in this post) I served my 10 years in the US ARMY and sometimes things sucked pretty bad, out in the woods, in Desert Storm, but neither I nor the people I served with ever QUIT. Civilians QUIT, pansies QUIT, dedicated soldiers who serve more than themselves DO NOT QUIT. I hope that the government recoups at least a portion of what us taxpayers paid for this crybabies education..10 yr US ARMY, Desert Storm Vet 1/41 Inf 2AD(fwd).
Option? I don't believe you. Attending church or cleaning toilets in basic training is no option, and if you were in Desert Storm, that was happening when you went through basic.
rotc =run off to canada...who cares it's only money...security for obama cost that much a day...
If you have never served and/or have never attended the USMA then your comments are pointless... I have Plenty of peers who went to the USMA and argue against this guys accusations. He made the decision to leave without meeting his commitment and has to pay for it. They only reason they considered to waive his fees was because of this media hype he has created and the Army originally wanted to save face, but im proud that the Army is sticking to its standards. What type of person doesn't follow through on commitments??? The answer is cowards... Soldiers do not need cowards leading them, they deserve better. So thank you Mr. Page for identifying yourself as a coward before you got out young warriors killed.
Agreed.
You may have served your time in the military, but USMA (as well as USAFA, USNA, CGA, and MMA) are different beasts all in themselves.
So far, all comments from those who have been at USMA point in the other direction of Mr. Page.
Funny how none of those folks are brave enough to identify themselves so their stories can be verified or refuted.
Funny how someone who isn't brave enough to identify themselves hounds others about not identifying themselves....and the hypocritical BS circle continues...
I am a proud, Jewish graduate of the class of 2010.
I assure you that there are more "Humanists" at West Point than Jews. Since I can't speak to Mr. Page's experience I will speak to mine. From the very first summer, my Jewish classmates and I, and anyone else who wanted was allowed to miss training in order to attend services. On Sundays, when other religions were practicing I had to shine my shoes and my brass along with anyone else who wasn't practicing. There was never pressure to attend services and anyone regardless of their religion could attend any service they wanted. Wednesdays during Chaplains Time I often brought non-Jews to our meeting location because it was well known we had better food.
Never in four years did a senior officer, instructor, or member of the organization try to proselytize me. Does it happen? Did it happen to Mr. Page? I don't doubt it. However, I learned by my second year how to handle problems within an organization the proper and mature way. Mr. Page reminds me of how I was as a very junior Cadet. Unfortunately he did not learn that lesson and still demonstrates the lack of intestinal fortitude to confront his problems as a man. He was probably a phenomenal Specialist. Unfortunately, he's still acting and handling his problems like a Specialist.
We don't need more Specialists. We have plenty of them and they are doing their jobs well. We need young leaders willing to do what is necessary to affect change in an organization that is constantly undergoing it.
I have to reply to this, not to refute your account of your experience at the USMA, but to provide a rebuttle to the claim that he handled this situation like a Specialist. I recently got out of the US Army, where I spent most of my time as a Specialist. If Mr Page had handled this like a Specialist, there never would have been a news story. I worked in the Aviation field, so I am sure I will catch flak for that on here as most other fields feel we are babied, and in some ways we are, but in others we have it "worse". Each job, rank and position has it's up and downs. Mr. Page handled this situation like a PV2 or PFC. Someone who knows just enough about the military to have the testicular fortitude to open their mouth and get themselves in trouble. If he held the rank of E-4, that is one story, in my opinion and I am sure the opinion of everyother specialist out there, a guy like this is no specialist. From my experience you get pinned the E-4 rank by time, but you do not recieve the respect of your peers, leaders, and subordinates that the title specialist deserves, until you actually earn it. I think it is one of the greatest ranks in the Army (at least aviation) for the fact that you don't automatically get respect. you earn it, you prove your worth through your actions. People under you do not listen to you because of your rank, they listen to you because of your knowledge of your job, they listen because you will stand up for what is right and what is wrong, and you are able to do that because, not only have you learned how to do that, but you have the respect of leaders above you from doing the right thing at all times and knowing how to tactfully aproach and handle leaders who are sometimes undeserving of the titles and positions they hold.
Mr Page acted as an E-4 at best, not a specialist. I know this is rather long winded, but I hate when people, who have little understanding of how the Army really works, generalize a @!$%#bag such as Mr. Page into a group of individuals, whom I believe to be the very Heartbeat of an organization that is so very critical to our existance as a nation.
So on that point I will leave you with this, and I hope you dwell upon these words and take them to heart, and I hope the guide you in the path of understanding what a tue leader is in the Army because there are so few left out there, it is a quote I found during my studies for the promotion board. I was weird and actually read some of the FM's and AR's so that I knew what they meant and how they were to be applied instead of just memorizing some words from a website. I believe if you look in FM 6-22 Army Leadership ( they were supposed to change it to FM 22-100, I am not sure if they have or if this preface is still in there) there is a preface done by CSM Gary L. Littrell, US Army (ret.), MOH...and in it is a line that I think is essential for everyleader to understand, and the fact that most leaders in the Army do not follow this simple line is what is wrong with the Army today and why there are so few true leaders in service today, there are many who wear the rank, but very few whom can actually be classified as leaders. I ask that you take this to heart and guide your peers, subordinate officers and NCOs and even your superiors in the correct direction.
CSM Littrell wrote this about Army Leadership; "You see, respect is something that has to be earned. Respect is not issued to you with a set of orders and a set of stripes. Respect is something you earn by taking care of the soldiers that you train and supervise and prepare for operations."
Have they changed the Army rank system lately? When *I* was an E-4, I was a specialist.
@beth
totally missed it didnt you.
Not at all "stoned", but I also don't agree and was looking to see how the OP would answer my query.
I graduated from West Point in 2010, I do not know Blake Page so I can't comment on his character or experiences. But I am non-religious and at no point did I feel I was being oppressed with Christianity, honestly there was so much other stuff to put up with that bowing my head before we ate ate never even crossed my radar as an inconvenience, and it wasn't even every time we ate just on special occasions. As for the repayment, we all knew that if we left after the beginning of our third year we would probably be required to repay the government either monetarily or through service. As for him being targeted, I have no way of knowing this for sure, but but it's more likely due to the fact that the army is having its budget cut significantly and are looking for any source of revenue. It's more likely a symptom of poor timing than persecution for being a "whistle blower." I know $250,000 would go a long way in regards to the training and maintenance of my unit. Also, just morally it makes sense that he was given an education and a monthly stipend he should have to pay it back. If you went to a regular college and left after almost four years you would still have to pay for the time you spent there (I know he has the GI Bill but he chose not to use it, he chose to go to West Point). And finally I had a friend who left the academy during our Firstie (senior) year who was required to serve as an enlisted soldier, he was killed when his vehicle was hit by an IED so just be glad they are only asking for money.
From my standpoint, I find it hard to believe that the Army's actions were not punitive.
You know the saying "where there's smoke, there's fire"? Considering the fact that the three-star recommended against recoupment and was ignored shows a real problem. It' has run rampant at the Air Force Academy, and now the tentacles have been shown to be in West Point.
For the record, I am not against religion...far from it. But I strongly and stringently believe that religion and spirituality is a personal arena. When religion is public policy, that is a danger sign...the founding fathers themselves ratified the 1st Amendment due to their knowledge of history of Europe, and how religious strife created everything from minor skirmishes to bloody civil wars.
As a former soldier, my heart goes out to this young man...he exemplifies personal courage. He could have just "gone along" with what appears to be a very illegal but de facto policy, but instead followed his conscience. If the Army is willing to pursue this, it is really risking the very bedrock of principles on which it was founded.
Sanders, look at your own post. Just because a Lt. Gen recommends something, doesn't mean that his recommendation will be accepted by other 3- or 4-stars. He failed to uphold his contract. He won't be called up to active duty, but he will have to repay the cost of his education.
He has a faith - it is atheism. He's upset that his faith is not supported as are other faiths? Did he openly accept other faiths as equal to his? I doubt it. I suspect he is a whiney little prig, who could have tried to join with others and bring people together, instead chose to be a drama queen. (Look at me. Look at me! Look at MEEE!) Atheists, the most self absorbed and unpleasant of all faiths.
Yep, he owes the military $250 K or 5 years of service. He sat in a chair for four years, denying someone else that seat. There is a very long list of men and women who would love to graduate WP. Besides repaying the army for his time at WP, he needs to apologize to the candidate who would have gone to WP in his place.