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The last few weeks for La Palma Police Chief Eric Nunez have been tense. He and his family endured 24-hour protection after being mentioned in Christopher Dorner's manifesto.
Though Dorner praised Nunez, the possibility that the fugitive ex-police officer would reach out to him amid the massive manhunt was ominous.
"My wife was obviously very worried,” Nunez said. “I tried to convince her that it is very unlikely that we would have any contact, but we did make a plan."
In an 11,400-word document published online, Dorner wrote this about Nunez: "You're just an awesome person and my first exposure to what law enforcement was really about."
Karen and Jim Reynolds recall their terrifying ordeal after walking through the front door of their southern California vacation home on Tuesday to find accused murderer Christopher Dorner inside.
Nunez said he was “reeling” trying to make sense of Dorner’s alleged rampage that left four dead, including two law enforcement officials and a newly engaged couple.
Nunez said Dorner was part of the department's police explorer volunteer program while at Kennedy High School and that he would visit once a year.
"The Chris Dorner that I knew back when he was an explorer here and going through college then going through the Navy wouldn't have done the horrendous acts that he did, would not have been the cold-blooded calculated murderer," Nunez said.
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Nunez explained that he had not heard from Dorner for two years until a package was dropped off at his office on Jan. 23. It contained a note explaining that Dorner did not lie during the investigation that led to his dismissal from the LAPD and a video of one of the interrogations.
"I barely had some inclination that he had been terminated or that he was no longer with LAPD but I had no context of the nature of that investigation was or anything," Nunez said.
"I really didn't even know what this was actually about until I read the manifesto," he added.
'Unfathomable'
He said he first read the manifesto when members of the Irvine Police Department arrived to his offices asking him about Dorner. Detectives were investigating the deaths of newly engaged couple Keith Lawrence and Monica Quan, the daughter of a former LAPD captain targeted in Dorner’s manifesto.
After a long manhunt culminating in gunfire and a cabin set ablaze, the search for accused murderer and ex-cop Christopher Dorner seems to have ended. Police say the charred body found inside the cabin was unrecognizable, but they claim there is no doubt their suspect is dead. NBC's Miguel Almaguer reports.
"It’s unfathomable. Even the first call that I got telling me that I was named in this manifesto and they wanted to talk to me about it and they told me who their suspect is, the Irvine Police Department, and my head is reeling because I am thinking how is that even possible?" Nunez said.
He turned over the package and its contents to the investigators.
Days after Nunez received the package, Dorner allegedly went on a shooting spree that killed Riverside police Officer Michael Crain. Nunez went to Crain’s funeral and, like the entire Southland law enforcement community, is now mourning the loss of two brothers.
San Bernandino Sheriff Detective Jeremiah MacKay was killed this week in a final gunbattle with Dorner before the 33-year old ex-LAPD officer died in a burning cabin in which he barricaded himself.
Two other members of law enforcement were wounded.
But what sets Nunez apart is his connection to Dorner.
"Whatever relief you might feel was [mixed] with deep sadness that came at the cost of another officer’s life," he said. "Everybody that has been touched by this is trying to figure out what went wrong."
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Very sad all the way around. No matter how much Dorner might have felt that he was betrayed, it does not excuse his actions.
Nope.
And all police officers in the United States - that are committing crimes of corruption, terror, tormenting civilians or their own, that should not be conducting themselves in this unlawful manner - it does not excuse their actions, either.
It's time for this nation to start admitting that its police are not any better than any other nation's on earth.
I've seen far too many officers committing crimes rather than conducting ethical duty since the beginning of this new century.
How sad for all Americans that our officers are not adult enough to admit these offenses but will demand that those they apprehend - guilty or not - either do as they say or be killed.
Take a plea deal like you all demand everyone else do and plead guilty to this crime, where the unlawful taking of a human life with malice aforethought occurred before the entire world.
Officer Dorner is eternally innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of his peers, no matter what the press or the police wishes to portray this as.
This is the United States of America.
That is what the law says.
Every officer on duty today all over this country understands that is the law.
Yep.
Because even if Dorner were innocent of the charges that the LAPD fired him for (and I agree there might have been a cover up on the behalf of senior officers), it did not give him the right to harm others. I don't know if he actually killed that young woman and her fiance, but there is little doubt he held that other couple against their will.
And so are all the Police Officers that you accuse innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Just because Dorner says they were guilty doesn't make it so. He has allegedly convicted innocent people with a gun.
I sincerely hope that Officer Nunez gave them a copy of the package - not the originals? Something just doesn't smell right with all he emphasis on collection (confiscation?) of all the artifacts which Dorner tried so hard to disperse to individuals outside the LAPD collective.
Hand delivery of these parcels makes sense only in the context text of having uncorrupted copies - which were not in the custody or under the influence of LAPD.
I don't give a crap if they beat his mother, screwed his dog, scratched his car, he is a piece of crap. He is a horrible person that does not deserve any consoling for what he supposedly went through. Any one who has compassion for the piece of dirt has something wrong with you. I for one am glad this monster is dead.
Whatever happened to one's right to protect oneself from the tyranny of government. So it is ok for a white man to own a gun and fire at government. But when a black man does the same you call him a piece of crap?
That's utter load of crap to me. Now that donner is dead at least why not investigate LAPD?
I agree. Let's quit the PC BS. It's great he's gone and saving the trouble of a trial. Let's not try to make him into some kind of Martyr. He's a muderer, plan and simple. Good bye and good riddance.
So he reached out for help, and our uncaring society slapped him in the face. He turned to the one person he thought was still honorable, and that person failed him, too. The entire system of fail safes failed. I do not blame him, I blame the system. It's broke, we all know it, and we know the system does not want itself fixed or scrutinized.
Officer Barbrady from SouthPark says it best, "Go on, nothing to see here..."
The system did not fail, this murderer failed. Quit watching cartoons and get in the real world. The system did not murder anyone, this horrible person did and for you to justify his actions shows that you do not have enough brain cells to be in this conversation.
Justice4u - I do not believe the second statement above. And your opening observance about police that are "committing crimes of corruption", etc, seems to make an assumption that police misconduct is both widespread and severe, and to tie that supposed fact to this story
I don't buy it.
While a deeper investigation into Dorner's case may prove that he was wrongfully terminated 5 years ago, his reaction, to go on a murder spree has nothing to do with police corruption and everything to do with a man who became unhinged over one, possibly unfair mishap in his life. Unfair things happen in life. People are wrongfully terminated. Less talented people are promoted for nonsensical reasons. Some wives cheat on their husbands, and probably even more husbands cheat on their wives.
Strong people get up and move on. Weaker people are sometimes destroyed. Some, such as Dorner, try to take others with them.
The LAPD, and other local police departments around the country? They are made up of human beings, and as such they are prone to all the failings of our species. But to put them on par with the police in countries like Mexico or some third world countries (...its police are not any better than any other nation's on earth), as you do is, frankly, stupid.
Dorner was such a goober, really. He had advantages most of us never get. You know, had he stayed in the Navy and not even advanced any further than in his pictures as an O3, after 20 years he could have retired making a little over $32400.00 a year without having to work. That's if he didn't advance any higher and at today's pay rates. Also if he did those 20 years in active duty, in reserves he would have got that much at retirement age. Obviously, if he worked hard and did his job, he probably would have doubled or even tripled that. I kick myself now for not going officer when I could have, especially when I see idiots like this guy!!!
What a good way to call for justice killing inocent people. Now is a hero for the left.
Chrs Mattews..."Someone who had great media-savvy, who knew — who had the brains to keep track of Hollywood, to keep up with Charlie Sheen, to establish relationships with people through the media, to, in some strange way, enjoy his situation and at the same time wreak havoc on anyone he came in contact to."
, Columbia University Professor Marc Lamont Hill upheld alleged cop-killer Christopher Dorner as a "superhero" and as a "modern day Jango. This is the same university that welcome Mohamud Ajmadenijhad the Iranian leader
I wonder what would be the commenst if this guy were white and a Fox, Hannity or Rush fan.
this guy was try'n to do the right thing the wrong way...you got to do the wrong thing the right way...to get a head at somebody else's expense...Obama 2012...
@ Barry, I've yet to see any evidence that Dorner murdered anyone. I thought it was all still speculative? Wow, they do move like the CSI on tv, done by commercial time. And as far as killing to cops, I'd shoot back at some crazy bastard shooting at me, what's insane about survival? He knew they didn't want him alive. The only people who said they wanted him alive, "Accidentally" burned him down in a cabin, you might be surprised, not me, not with that corrupt system of justice.
What do you wanna bet he was jacked up on steroids, I mean really, look at his arms. Another druggie.
So Timothy McVeigh was was try'n to do the right thing the wrong way...
McVeigh, a militia movement sympathizer, sought revenge against the federal government for their handling of the Waco Siege, which ended in the deaths of 76 people exactly two years prior to the bombing, as well as for the Ruby Ridge incident in 1992. McVeigh hoped to inspire a revolt against what he considered to be a tyrannical federal government.
Mr. Dorner was not given a trial, he was not proven guilty. The only thing we know he did was tie up the couple that owned the cabin. He also told them he wasn't going to hurt them. We cannot convict him and we cannot say he actually killed anyone. He may or may not have, it has not been proven, and never will. Somehow, something doesn't seem right, why would he have waited 5 years to go on a rampage? We'll never know the truth and the media prints anything it wants to.
put a little preparation H...on those burning roids...
If you want to protect yourself from the tyranny of government, you don't go after innocent people. That is what cowards and terrorists do. That is what makes him a piece of crap. Quit trying to make everything a racist situation. Not one single person that he shot, killed and/or injured was someone that actually wronged him.
Again, another person who doesn't blame the person who committed the atrocities, but what supposedly drove him to do it. No one forced him to go on a rampage because he didn't get his way. It doesn't matter whether or not what was done to him was right or wrong, it does not justify going on a killing rampage. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Amen!!!!!
Beware of bullying others.
Some victims of bullying will go home and hang themselves when they cannot handle the bullying anymore. If you are a bully, you probably wish for victims that are in this category.
Other victims of bullying will attempt to stand up to the bullies through legal means... even when the bully is a vastly superior entity such as the LAPD. If you are a bully, you will find victims in this category to be nothing more than an annoyance, since you will be able to use your vast resources to extinguish them.
Still, other victims of bullying have the means and the will to fight back violently. Witness Columbine, Dorner.
Be careful who you decide to bully. The victim's ripost might surprise you.
Barry, I am not supporting Dorner's actions of the past week, but I do believe the police department acted inappropriately as well. Remember, the "innocent until proven ..." has been corrupted repeatedly due to circumstances just as Dorner brought out in his letter of complaint (which the LAPD refers to as a manifesto in order to give it a more negative face.) More than once the guilty have gone free due to corruption. That does not mean the parties are innocent, merely that they have failed to be convicted. Think if you watched someone gun down a person you loved and then, in court, because they had all the "right connections" they got off. You KNOW they are guilty but, in the eyes of the law, they are not.
Justice, just like anything else where the human factor is involved, can be corrupted.
Chris Dorner is no more a monster than anyone else who feels backed into a corner due to circumstances beyond their control. He is the face of this crime spree but just as I have doubts as to whether or not he is actually the person whose remains were recovered from the fire, I also have serious doubts about the LAPD and their complicity in the rage. There are people who testified that Dorner's accusations against the department were true. They offered factual evidence to that effect. And yet Dorner was still dismissed. He went through the channels of the department and felt he got screwed which, if everything in his 18 page missive is accurate, he did. This in no way excuses his actions but it does cast some shadow of a doubt on the chain of events - enough to grant him at least a bit of compassion. Too bad he didn't push beyond the local level but, the last time the LAPD was pushed to state and federal reviews, they essentially ignored the outcome and, for the most part, went on about their duties, business as usual. It is possible Dorner felt nothing would come of further complaints against the department. It is possible he felt the corruption went high enough and deep enough that he could not rout it. It is possible that, had he been the first one to expose the issues to the media, the outcome would have been more favorable to him and no one would have died. It is possible he felt this was the only way to expose the corruption. It is possible ...
Unfortunately, Dorner did not pursue the rational course of action. In anger or frustration or defeat or whatever his motivation, he chose the path to which he had been indoctrinated - violence. He chose a method the LAPD would best understand - violence. He chose to send his message in a manner guaranteed to hit the front pages - violence. Perhaps his method will turn a sharper, more critical eye toward the LAPD. Perhaps investigations will follow which will, eventually, not only find Dorner innocent of the 'False report' charges but bring to light the corruption that is still rampant in that police department. Perhaps things may even get better for a while. Perhaps people will rise up and insist on a clean-up of the department and better oversight. Chances are, however, that, in the end, all of these people who died, including Dorner if he was, indeed, the body in the cabin, will have died for nothing, the populace will turn a blind eye to the crimes perpetrated by the police, and the LAPD corruption will come back as strong as - stronger than ever.
wooly bully...wooly bully...don't make me go sam the sham on ya'...
Donna P where did you get your education? Back of a cereal box? "You don't go after innocent people" but a Mother and Daughter who were innocent were almost executed by LAPD because they just want him dead. Only piece of crap here, is You Donna P, LAPD, and Barry.
They only innocent harmed where the two ladies the cops tried to executed thinking it was Chris "So they say", plain and simple.
People like you, are what feed the LAPD's ego, moronic and brain dead.
If he was a vicious killer on a rampage he would have killed the old man who's truck he jacked, as he knew the old man would call the police. He had a set list of corrupt people he was after.
You'r knowledge is very week and very elementary, please go post on a sub adult website, you might fit in better there.
Dman, you are both willfully blind and self-righteous. These two roadblocks will definately keep you in the dark and totally unable to see the obvious. Law-enforcement in the USA are heavily corrupt and full of trigger-happy pigs that are itching to kill somebody. There is only a remnant of Police Officers who honor their duty. The rest are just a bunch of control-freak, Neo skin-head killers on a major power-trip. All you have to do is keep reading the news. The media gladly reports it. And guess what?! This is not new news. This is OLD news, as the police have been corrupt for many decades. How many officers were involved in the "accidental" shooting of the mother and daughter out delivering papers? Half a dozen or so? They completely ignored their training and, like a bunch of drunk cowboys, shot the hell out of the back of their truck, putting a bullet in the back of one lady and in the hand of another. If this is not a clear declaration of who and what the LAPD is, then you are nothing but a government spoon-fed apologist -- a drone that obeys the wishes of his government master.
"I've seen far too many officers committing crimes rather than conducting ethical duty since the beginning of this new century." Justiceyadayadayada
Hunh? You've SEEN this? If you're so ethical, why haven't you reported, complained, and testified in court? Oh, you mean you heard about it from your homies on the corner, standing under the tennis shoe hanging from the power line.
Like I've said before, police officers are drawn from the community at large. If there is an ethical deficiency in the police force, it is because there is an ethical deficiency in the population from which those officers are chosen. Clean up society's deficiencies and that will flow down to the police officers. Real change starts with the man you see in the mirror every morning.
It's funny how all these goofballs that are lionizing a mass murderer have all jumped to the conclusion that EVERYONE BUT DORNER was in the wrong. It was okay for him to kill uninvolved officers, and THE DAUGHTER and her fiance. Somehow the bigger purpose of vengeance against an unfair system justified his violence. And they don't want anyone judging Dorner until some investigation is completed, and want to see evidence that he killed the daughter and her fiance before believing. NOW they're all for blind justice... and some for their own perverted justice.
I'll bet that the vast majority of these lamebrains also jumped to conclusions about the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman tragedy, picketed, called for GZ's death, and just assumed that he was a racist murderer without waiting for investigation, trial, or any type of justice other than their own wish for vengeance.
"So it is ok for a white man to own a gun and fire at government. But when a black man does the same you call him a piece of crap?" PJracist
PJ, which of the white people who committed the recent mass murders were not killed, or arrested, or brought to justice and executed? Where are the news articles talking about all the lamebrains exalting the Aurora shooter, or the Newtown shooter, or the Gabby Giffords shooter, as some kind of hero? Or is it because Dorner was black that he is automatically granted elevated status by people such as you? Do you honestly NOT see the racism in your statement?
My condolences to the Dorner family for their loss. Greater condolences to the families of the slain.
Ravisher, are you completely insane? You mean, the DAUGHTER of the police officer wasn't innocent? Her FIANCE wasn't innocent? The two officers from separate departments weren't innocent? The ONLY people who were innocent were the two women accidentally shot by probably overly nervous and scared police officers?
You can't understand the difference between ACCIDENTALLY shooting the wrong person, and intentionally gunning down the DAUGHTER OF FIANCE?
Your rage has you blind, man! You need to see a doctor for this.
Holy sh17, there's no reasoning with people like you. PLONK.
GWRider, if your rant is over - take some break and remove crap from your head.
All I said is - all this nonsense about tyranny of government and individual's rights to fight that tyranny - does that apply to Donner?
Or is he automatically disqualified for being black? WTF is racist in that? That's a pretty objective question I asked.
Blacks have been an oppressed group in this country. For the record - I am not black.
Part of me was really hoping he would get away and just disappear; like D.B.Cooper.
Chris Dorner would have gotten lots of help had he made it to my neighborhood. He's a hero around here. We are going to celebrate Feb. 13 in honor of Dorner next year. The POLICE are really nothing but criminals with badges.
So he fought against tyranny by assassinating innocent people who had nothing to with his perceived injustices? When all else fails, play the race card. For the record, you are an idiot.
He died like the coward he was, killing himself.
Brothers? Adopted? Biological?
The Thin Blue Line of the Brotherhood. Sounds like other "Brotherhoods" such as the Aryan Brotherhood, Muslim Brotherhood or the Ku Klux Klan. All tyrants.
How much did the "entire Southland law enforcement community's" attendance of the funeral cost the cash strapped taxpayers, along with the massive witch hunt?
How many innocent people were killed fighting the Civil War in an attempt to right a wrong?
Mr. Burton,, He would have gotten help from me too..
Dorner is NOT AN IDOL....he was a COLD BLOODY KILLER.
OVER !
So, those folks who want to celebrate and HONOR him, how about going to Chicago and celebrating those teenagers who have been killed by gang bangers.
J E BURTON.....Let the police know if you need their help during a home invasion robbery.
Not everyone is dependant upon the government for their well being. Some of us folks actually take care of ourselves, thank you.
These "officers of the law" are chosen supposedly for their ability to have risen above this rat's nest we call humankind.
Stop making excuses for them copying unethical, corrupt and unbecoming behavior. If there are ethical deficiencies making up law enforcement, we'd be much better as a society doing without them. We surely don't need forces made up of ethical deficiencies with a legal right to kill.
Don't any of you read? This man went through the Court system.. There was an independent Judge that ruled on Dorners guilt...This was followed up again in 2009...Independent Judge meaning not affiliated with the LAPD.
He was found at fault, guilty, and released from the LAPD... Now you want him tried again in the public eye.
Get a grip, this man was not right in the head...He was a raving maniac that killed by ambush. He gave no chance what so ever to the young couple he killed first. They had nothing to do with his dismissal.
Now until you or a loved one was killed, you will cry poor Dorner until the cows come home..GET OVER IT.... This man was guilty as all hell and just lived a lie.
An oxymoron. Thanks for the chuckle.
Jean, they may have read this information, but they do not accept it. I reserve my conclusions until I know more of the actual court cases.
It is not impossible that he was mistreated by the system. But that is immaterial. Nothing which happened to this man justifies his declaration of war on the law enforcement community.
My guess, is that he was suffering from a delusional disorder, which allowed him to see himself as the victim, even while he was gunning down innocent people in cold blood.
Well, Paul2568, sorry, but your assertions are no more well-supported than Justice4u's. Both of you apparently feel that to speak in broad generalities constitutes proof of your contentions.
I don't know what alternate universe you may inhabit, where police shootings of civilians are common events. Certainly statements such as...
...and...
..do not prove anything except that you seem fixated on authority figures.
Then you pair your rumor mongering with personal attacks:
Sorry, I'm unimpressed.
This is supposed to be a country operating under the laws of due process; not assassination, not lynching nor burning at the stake, whether it's of the opinion it is "deserved" or not.
When our own government lies with dogs and fails to follow due process, god help us all.
in the end the truth will come out whether dorner was innocent or not (Luke 8:17)"FOR NOTHING IS SECRET THAT WILL NOT BE REVEALED; NOR ANYTHING HIDDEN THAT WILL NOT BE MADE KNOWN AND COME TO LIGHT"
Of more importance to the here and now is whether or not the truth will come out regarding the innocence or guilt of the law enforcement community and corruption of LAPD, which seems to have been silenced when Dorner was silenced.
Debi, exactly how was due process not followed in this case. Christopher Dorner was discharged by the LAPD 5 years ago. The case was appealed, and his firing upheld by the courts in 2010. The police did not shoot him while was in custody. He was barricaded in a mountain cabin and had both fired upon the arresting officers, and killed one of them.
Under those circumstances, what precisely are police to do? Wait indefinitely while an expert marksman takes pot shots at them, or do as they did, return fire and attempt to drive him out with fire.
Either way, Christopher Dorner chose not to surrender. He chose to continue resisting arrest, and he, apparently, chose to put his gun to his own head and end matters.
How was this assassination, or a lynching, or a burning at the stake?
Police have always used deadly force in response to deadly force. I wouldn't claim that such tactics are always justified, or even effectively used.
But in this final showdown, I can find no fault with the police response.
When paranoia and delusional beliefs rule the minds of our citizens, we are truly in need of divine intervention.
dman, who here is delusional? "Surrender"? Before or after police shot up two vehicles without knowing who was in them just because they suspected it was him?
They had him surrounded in a cabin. They could have waited him out instead of making him choose between dying by being burnt to death or dying by "surrendering".
Corruption not rampant in law enforcement? Sorry dman, facts, which would take up more space than this blog allows, not paranoia overrule you. It's real simple, though. Just google "police corruption".
Debi, there is a world of difference between claiming the police are imperfect, but still positive force for public order in our society, and your apparent belief, that they constitute some sinister organization bent on oppressing honest citizens.
'...dying by "surrendering"'? Exactly what facts justify your assumption that his only choices were being burnt to death of dying in police custody? Conversely, the police were dealing with somebody who was an acknowledged expert marksman with a rifle, and whom had already shot two policemen, one fatally, in the current confrontation. By your logic, the police were somehow obligated to wait and hope he neither escaped, nor took other, innocent lives.
You need to take courses in logical thinking, and in statistics. We live in a nation of over 300 million people. The fact that you can find stories of police corruption on the internet is no more indicative of endemic corruption, than stories of parents molesting their own children indicate that such practices are common in American families.
But you offer no summary statistics to back your claims, only airy observances, such as those above, paired with an attitude that says basically that the cops are always guilty until proven innocent.
You asked who here is delusional? By your words you answer your own question.
I'll repeat. Law enforcement was in assassination mode, not arrest mode, as witnessed by the two separate shootings of innocent people, mistakenly believed to be Dorner, perpetrated by law enforcement.
Is it possible those two officers were shot by friendly fire? Again, you make statements as if you know them as fact, but you are not privy to any facts; only your own conjecture and hearsay.
Having practically the whole "southern California law enforcement brotherhood" surrounding the cabin, it is highly unlikely he would have had the opportunity to escape or, allegedly, "taken any other lives".
Whether Dorner is guilty or not of his alleged crimes, he should have had a right to a trial, not a barbaric witch hunt, only to be burnt at the stake.
Please, if you're ever called upon to serve on a murder jury trial, be honest during voir dire and let them know, because of an accusation, you're way ahead of them and you have already determined guilt and are prepared for the sentencing phase.
Btw, it's funny you should mention police corruption and molestation as being non-endemic. The Vatican claims the same nonsense, and the courts of law are beginning to prove their claims are nonsense with large monetary judgments being awarded.
That's how our system is supposed to work; in a courtroom, not by a lynch mob.
Debi, words spoken multiple times are not multiplied in meaning, or truth.
Your statement that law enforcement was "in an assassination mode", does not magically become true through repetition.
The actions of the Torrance police on the morning of Feb. 7th, certainly show they were on edge, and primed to act at the first suggestion of a threat. But these incidents occurred at night, and involved the Torrance police protecting the home of a a probable target, not the police present at the mountain cabin shoot-out a week later.
He had already, allegedly, taken the life of one additional officer, and was an acknowledged expert marksman with a rifle. You may feel entitled to assess the threat faced by the surrounding officers as nil, but you were not there. I would say it was extremely likely that during a prolonged stand-off, one or more officers might find themselves targeted and become the next victim.
But with the media, and upper law-enforcement watching, all Christopher Dorner needed to do, to both preserve his life, and to have his day in court, was to throw out his weapons and announce that he was giving himself up.
He did not. Armed and well trained, he was a manifest danger for as long as he remained out of custody.
I am quite capable of assessing the evidence presented at trial and making a fair assessment of the defendant's guilt or innocence. This blog site is not a court of law. We are not constrained to use words such as "alleged" in referenced to Dorner's apparent actions during the last week of his life, actions which he actually wrote about in his manifesto. Yes, I believe he committed these acts. If you are honest, you'll admit that you do too.
You are the one drawing parallels between church cover-ups of child abuse and Police actions. I spoke of child-molestation stories where the parents are the abusers. There are at least as many stories of such incidents in the news as there are about rogue priests. This is a common debating tactic used by those whose arguments are weak. They continually shift the focus to new subjects.
My point, debi, which you apparently cannot grasp, is that numerous stories of sexual abuse of children by their parents, might lead a person of limited intellect to conclude that such abuse is endemic in American families. Statistics and deductive reasoning would tell you otherwise.
By the same logic, the citing of stories on the internet, even numerous stories, of police corruption and police abuse of power, does not prove such behavior is commonplace in American law enforcement. To strongly suggest that you need statistical analysis, and calm reasoning logic, not hysterical utterances and alarmist claims.
So, repeat yourself again, as many times as you wish. All you've shown to me is that you ceased doing any honest thinking on this subject a long time ago.
What "threat"? Two women delivering newspapers? If this isn't proof of law enforcement's mode of shoot first, ask questions later, I don't know what else is. Dorner had no chance of surrendering alive. He more than likely knew it and so did many others.
Btw, it was LAPD who shot the two women and Torrance PD was involved in a second shooting:
"Officers from the Los Angeles and Torrance police departments engaged in two separate shootings Thursday morning in Torrance, Calif., reports KTLA. They had come across two different vehicles that were similar to the description of Dorner's getaway car, a gray 2005 Nissan Titan pickup.
The first shooting incident happened at 5:20 a.m. Officers from the Hollywood division of the LAPD shot two people who turned out to have no connection to Dorner's crimes. They were transported to the hospital with gunshot injuries.
The second incident occurred 25 minutes later and involved Torrance police. While shots were fired, there were no reported injuries.
"One has a minor gunshot wound and is in the process of being released. The second person is in stable condition, with two gunshot wounds," said Chief Beck. "Tragically, we believe this was a case of mistaken identity by the officers."
The facts, and what you think you know, are two different things. This was not a case of "the Torrance police protecting the home of a a probable target", as clearly asserted by Chief Beck. It is irresponsible to add your own imagined storyline to facts. You clearly make my argument as to why everyone deserves the right to a trial in a court of law.
Lest you've forgotten, there was no trial. You've based your "fair" assessment on allegations alone.
You choose to live in a world of denial, which is not uncommon and unfortunately, you are not alone.
You know the saying, think in one hand, s**t in the other and see which fills up first. Again, thinking is not the same as presenting evidence heard during trial in a court of law, of which Dorner was denied.
Yes, debi, two women delivering papers do not constitute a threat. But i do not believe that anybody outside of the tin-foil hat crowd is asserting the police knew whom was in the truck when they opened fire. In the reports I've read, it was related that the women were driving with the lights off, at night.
The above text is so convoluted it is difficult for me to discern your meaning. If you are claiming that the LAPD Chief Beck asserted that the shooting did not occur during a protective detail, I can only offer what was reported in the L.A. Times (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html) on Feb. 7th:
To me that certainly reads as if the police were on a protective detail, and under such conditions they would be primed to treat any car pulling up outside the unnamed official's house, with the head lights off, with extreme suspicion. That doesn't mean that they were justified in opening fire. But neither do the circumstances demonstrate that they were operating in, as you put it, "an assassination mode".
As to whether Christopher Dorner deserved a fair trial, the only answer is an emphatic yes, but to undergo a trial he must first surrender to authorities.
Debi, that is not too hard to grasp, I hope.
His last actions before shooting himself, to shoot yet another two police officers, did not demonstrate his willingness to surrender. If you examine the picture of the burned out cabin, you'll perhaps note it was not isolated from all other dwellings. If an allegedly, dangerous criminal refuses to be taken peacefully into custody, then he is a manifest danger to the public and to the police. Under such circumstances, the police will use deadly force, and sorry to bruise your sensibilities, I have no problem with such actions.
You take my comments out of context, as I was not speaking specifically of the Dorner case. But again, I've forgotten nothing. You have forgotten that he was using deadly force to resist arrest. What were the police to do, issue a polite summons that he appear in court? Your assessment of the situation is completely divorced from reality.
I do know that the actual saying is..
"Wish in one hand, sh*t in the other. See which one gets filled first."
(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Wish%20in%20one%20hand%2C%20@!$%#%20in%20the%20other.) ,
...which is apparently more than you do. But your manifest aversion to "thinking", explains much about your world view.
Nobody is of the belief the police knew who they were firing at; and because they shot not knowing who they were shooting at, you don't see that in itself as a problem? Is that the type of world you would like to live in, dman? Police shooting "at will" and "at whomever"? No wonder you fail to recognize law enforcement agencies out of control.
At least we agree on one thing.
There were not just one, but two instances of "opening fire". Law enforcement is not trained to open fire just for the fun of it, but to shoot to kill. Even if he was in one of those vehicles, they never even gave him a chance to surrender. It's pretty clear they were not going to take him alive.
I do, but not a problem of the same magnitude and scope as you envision. The police were on edge; they felt that a highly dangerous man was approaching one of Dorner's probable [by his own words] targets. If it had been Dorner, approaching with his headlights off, it would be inconceivable, by any rational assessment, that he was doing so innocently. Under such circumstances, it is understandable that the police were on edge, and prone to overreact.
I see that shooting as symptomatic of police operating in a panic mode. You see it as indicative that they were operating under a shoot-to-kill directive.
Yes, and this shooting occurred within minutes of the first, by officers responding to the sounds of gunfire. The same likely explanation applies.
[Sigh...] I'll point out, for at least the second time, that the Feb. 7th shooting incidents involved L.A. and Torrance police officers, while the final manhunt and showdown was conducted by the San Bernardino County Sheriff's department. I do consider it probable that the California State Police would also be involved, but the LAPD would have no standing or authority to act in San Bernardino County.
Even assuming the worst possible reasons and motives for the actions of the LAPD and the Torrance police, their actions prove nothing regarding the motives and actions of the San Bernardino Sheriff's office days later. One incident occurred in the predawn hours of a local police protective detail. The other occurred under the full light of media coverage, involving a different law enforcement agency, and it unfolded over several hours.
Yet you see one, malign will at work in both incidents. You have no proof of such a connection. You just state it as if it were as incontrovertible as the laws of gravity. But saying it, don't make it so.
I cannot make it any simpler than that. With the media on scene, Christopher Dorner clearly had the opportunity to surrender, and to have his day in court. Your assertions to the contrary are based upon wild suppositions and the actions of a completely separate law enforcement agency, to which you attribute the least likely, but most damnable of motives.
So be it. If nothing else, your latest post provides ample evidence of why you, by your own words, associate thinking with defecation, and appear to value the second activity more than the first.
Is your hand full yet?
Then they certainly don't qualify to be armed with the legal right to kill if they can't control their propensity to "overreact".
Yes, particularly when the victims were shot from the back, going away from the gun fire.
Probably not, debi. But policemen are just human beings, and there is no telling how any of them will react in moments of dire peril. It is only in the movies that police act with the calm certainty of a Clint Eastwood.
Ah dman, we have finally come full circle in our discussions and you've made my point.
Man is inherently flawed; thus, the reason for the creation of laws and religion in order to provide consequences for evil behavior.
Unless a badge miraculously removes law enforcement from the category of mankind and they are uplifted to the level of sainthood, then we can assume they are like every other human being, flawed and committing evil acts.
The problem comes when there are those who consider law enforcement to be saints, when they can only be human like the rest of us.
I agree, as general principal, one should neither expect perfection in the police or believe that they are beyond the reach of normal human failings, such as greed, panic and cowardice.
That said, I would not either ascribe to them malign impulses in advance of evidence.
Turning back again to the sad case of Christopher Dorner, I have nothing good to say about the police actions on the morning of February 7th, when the LAPD and Torrance police twice shot at civilians on the suspicion that they might be Dorner. Whether their motive was panic, or vengeance, their actions were unacceptable.
But I do not find fault in the actions of the San Bernardino Sheriff's department, days later, who tracked down Dorner in a mountain cabin, and engaged him that final, fatal stand-off, in which Dorner and one police officer were killed. Unless some news come to light showing that Dorner did attempt to surrender, I hold to the opinion that it was he who chose to end the stand off with his own death.
First off the facts are missing. No one has proven he was the one that killed anyone. Your assuming based on crap fed to you by the system. Second, he was burned alive on national TV, but you forget the job of police is to bring people to justice, not burn them at the stake, or did you forget Waco ?
But it is pretty clear that he held that other couple against their will.
it's also pretty clear the first couple he killed had nothing to do with his dismissal...
Yeah it is only circumstantial evidence but it is still pretty compelling. But then I guess it is just a coincidence that the daughter of a cop that he was targeting and her fiance were killed right after he threatened to kill the cops that did him wrong and their families in his manifesto. Oh I get it, it must be that the LAPD is so corrupt that after they read his manifesto they went out and killed the daughter of one of their own and her fiance and then they killed a cop who had nothing to do with anything just so that they could frame Dorner.
It's not proven that he killed the first couple, and never will be.
ballistics might prove you wrong...
Penny, they have the murder of the couple on tape, it was filmed by a security camera. Who are you people that think this man deserved anything. He would have been arrested if he had given himself up, he chose not too, that is why he is dead.
The guy was a piece of crap. Even if he was wronged by the LAPD, it doesn't justify his actions. He was a mass murderer and I'm glad he is dead. Here's what is was not: a hero, martyr, or an agent of vengeance.
LG-of course nothing has been proven. Dorner ran around like a crazy trying to fulfill his threats in his manifesto. Who has had time to do anything but try to stop him from murdering other people. That's just crazy thinking to implicate that he deserved some sort of justice as he was running that law enforcement didn't provide him! If he had surrendered rather than what he did then we could be talking about a trial with a jury of his peers. It was his choice. He had every opportunity to stop at any point before every killing, car stealing, tieing people up and face the system. So dramatic to say he was burned alive on national tv. Tracking a suspected murderer was being televised on national tv. He kept running, committing crime after crime along the way. He chose his end.
What this man was or wasn't does not negate the fact that there is an extreme level of police corruption in this country. This corruption was not the only catalyst for this tragic series of events, but it definitely doesn't mean we should just sweep this all under the rug and make Dorner the scapegoat for the whole thing. There were several points in this man's life in which the system failed him, much like so many of those who use suicide, vengeance, malice or other negative actions to right a wrong in their own mind.
I say we start with changing the obviously broken system of the police investigating themselves. 9 times out of 10 they will determine they did everything right. What is wrong with that picture??
Naomi, How do sane people blame someone else for something that Dorner chose to do, police corruption has nothing to do with the crime. Get your head out of the liberal mindset, it's always someone elses fault.
Murder is no excuse for being done wrong. That said, He really got the attention of the nation by exposing the corruption in the LAPD which has gone on for years. I feel that it drove him insane. We have so much corruption in our Sheriff's department, very unfair and has people guilty and have to prove innocence.
Deputies that stole a car fro an elderly person, a deputy that forced girls to have sex rather than get a ticket and some he threatened to carry to jail. He was fired and when they though enough time had passed rehired these guys. The government needs some way of critiquing these people.
Some in jail for 2 years for driving on revoked. Give me a break. It would drive a good cop nuts having to work with thugs.
LG, after he killed the young couple, he called her Father.. Her Father was the Lawyer that defended Dorner in his trial.... He knew who he was and is... Then he sent his manifesto to whomever and it was all over the net and news...He admitted to the Father he killed them....DUHHHHHHHHHHH
Why would you think the LAPD is guilty.. People that hate Police, usually have something to fear, have done something wrong.
in the end the truth will be made known to everyone regarding whether dorner was telling the truth or notl! (Luke 8:17)"FOR NOTHING IS SECRET THAT WILL NOT BE REVEALED; NOR ANYTHING HIDDEN THAT WILL NOT BE MADE KNOWN AND COME TO LIGHT"
LAPD = Lowlife Assinine Pernicious Devils
I now see further incontrovertible evidence that the remainder of your pea-brain is disintegrating even more, Otto-boy. Shouldn't have eaten that British beef back then, should you?
I never lived in LA but in NEW YORK many people feel the same way about NYPD.
This is how things are handled today and will be in the foreseeable future. If you can't get justice in the rigged systems of corporate America and the courts it's left to the individual to extract justice. Fortunately for the shooters, the weapons are readily available.
In this case it was a highly trained and dedicated police officer. That's someone who is hard to write off as a nut job and ignored. This man went to war against injustice and gave his life for that cause. He didn't go on a rampage killing at random. He targeted the families of those responsible for the injustice done to him and then defended himself against an army given shoot on sight orders. What possible reason could he have had for reporting his superiors abuses? And right or wrong is firing a person for reporting abuse the right way to handle things. Seems if we want to get better we'd want to encourage that. Only if we're covering our asses would we want to fire a whistleblower. I can only hope that the powers that be will take a very close look at his manifesto, and a very close look at his department, the circumstances surrounding his firing and those responsible. Seems to me that some high ranking police officers should probably be going to jail. Unless we start forgetting about office and department politics and start putting blame where it belongs, before things come to a head like this, we will continue to see more and more and more of this stuff.
This is the world we've created and are leaving to our children.
And yet you don't know if he was wrongfully accused. You are taking his word for it.
I take his word for it because I can find any rationale at all for him falsely reporting a superior for abuse.
Can you think of even one plausible reason he would do that?
Amen!
Right. And that's the way to handle things when you feel your boss did you wrong at work. Going to be a lot of dead families because a lot of people feel wronged at work. He's NOT a martyr, just a thug who once wore a uniform.
I think the real problem is the black plague
culheath, Dorner lied because the day before he filed the complaint against his training officer about the kicking, that same training officer gave him a unsatisfactory rating on his probationary work. Which by the way was 2 weeks after the alledged incident took place and he had several opportunities to report it.
You just either didn't look hard enough or chose to ignore it.
Paul71-1655761
Got a link for your assertion?
I looked and couldn't find any thing to back up what your are saying.
No question. This tragic and horrific episode has pointed up the ugly divisions in our society: the OJ Simpson victims on one side; on the other the OJ Simpson jurors. There is no middle ground, no "halfway house", each side seeing the other has hopelessly deluded, hostile, ridden by fears and prejudices..
I do not condone any form of violence and feel bad for the innocent victims, but I do believe Dorner was telling the truth. Somehow everything that turns up bad, Hispanics always have something to do with it, when it comes to African Americans. It's a shame.
What are you talking about>
You believe a madman who would tell you anything, he is a criminal and his word carries no weight. Who are you people that think that most cops are bad. I am a ex-convict and I do not have this view of policemen. Most of the police that I came across as a young man were good people, there are always a few bad apples in every bunch, does not give you the right to portray all policemen as bad. You can always be redeemed and live a better life then breaking the law. For anyone to believe this moron, you have to be on drugs.
Lookinup, what does Race have to do with any of this? That's one of the problems with this country. Someone will always come up with a race angle.
Should his claims be investigated regarding Dorners employment termination? YESS. In light of what I've read regarding his claims and the testimony on the case, he could certainly have been wrongly terminated.
Does him being wrongly terminated excuse or justify his actions?
HELL NO.
Barry,
I agree. I know an alot of police officers who are just good cops doing their jobs. To assume most cops are also criminals is ludicrous.
From a paragraph above:
"It contained a note explaining that Dorner did not lie during the investigation that led to his dismissal from the LAPD and a video of one of the interrogations."
I'd love it if the public to get a look at the entire interrogation video. That may explain Dorner's accusations and shed some light on why this guy went ape$h!t.
What the heck LookinUpAnyway?? Always hispanics?
Point taken, pinz. What use is substituting one prejudice for another?
But the more prejudiced among us will take a different lesson from the Dorner affair: that it is dangerous to educate and train members of certain minority groups. Like the Afghan Mujahideen, they will only go back and use that training and education to fight us with, and perhaps lead others in doing so.
From some of the comments seen here, Dorner would have had a ready made group of followers had he escaped to kill again. But I must take note that while Dorner stole their vehicle did not murder the two women in that cabin and his not doing so led to his being spotted, pursued and ultimately trapped.
How do the corrupt law enforcement officials live with themselves?
Can they really sleep like normal law abiding citizens?
I am also going to suggest opening your mail when it arrives and at least get a handle on what it pertains to!!!!
Something tells me the official version of events will leave no culpability on the LAPD.
William are you actually saying that the LAPD had something to do with the killings of these four people, you are too stupid to post on this site. You should have all posting privledges revoked, what a moron.
Something tells me that Billy-boy's version of events was created entirely in his cynical, paranoid mind.
No , not at all. Do you even have your GED??
William, Do you have your GED? When you say they will not be found culpable, you are infering that the LAPD had something to do with it. Maybe you should look up the definition of culpability, because as they say you keep using this word and I do not think it means what you think it does.
I think both Mymomdidnotraiseafool and Barry Sotero are both on the wrong page here. I believe WilliamOfRites is referring to the fact that the LAPD burned down the cabin on purpose. There was no going in there to get him or waiting till he came out. There were no negotiators or attempts at using non-lethal force. They didn't want this guy to come out alive for fear of what he had to say. They had him cornered in a house, the place was surrounded and yet they decided to set it on fire.
"Something tells me the official version of events will leave no culpability on the LAPD."
He is referring to the the great likelihood that the LAPD will be able to sweep this under the rug and justify burning the house down with Dorner in it.
Violance Vigilante, Dorner was in the cabin shooting at the police officers, maybe the police should have laid down there weapons and said come on out, we know it was our fault, you were treated wrong and killing the four people was just an accident, come on man get your head out of your arse.
Barry - Does that mean LAPD is now judge, jury, and executioner? I don't believe that 'death by incineration' is on the list of official methods of execution. Even if he were to leave the cabin, armed or otherwise, there is little doubt in my mind that the LAPD would have shot him. If I am not mistaken, tear gas is a non-lethal method that they could have tried to flush him out of the house though there is no mention of trying that. They sure don't have a problem using the stuff on rioters.
Have a listen to the police scanner recording if you haven't done so already:
()
VV- Are you really saying that even though he is shooting at the police from the cabin with the intent of killing them, they as police officers don't have the right to protect themselves. Is that what you are saying, because if it is, you have a mental problem. Of course they have the right to kill him if they are in danger, my god man where did you get your understanding of the law.
"Everybody that has been touched by this is trying to figure out what went wrong." What went wrong? We already know that. We also know that many in the police departments around the country are as corrupted as they can be, no telling how many people are in prisons and their lives destroyed because of fabricated evidence, lies, cover-ups etc.
It's sad that all these people lost their lives!
Most people are in prison because they deserve to be there, quit making excuses for criminals. Why when someone breaks the law then they deserved to be understood. It's a law for a reason, if you break it then you are punished.
Was he taking any medications? Maybe he was having some of the side affects listed in the black box warnings.
That's what I want to know. Evidently this man was a stable member of society. In the end, 5 years after bein fired he flipped out badly. What kind of medication? What kind of literature did he read? What did he watch? Who did he hang with? Was he hypnotized, psychoanalyzed? MKULTRAed? Something must be traceable to his actions in the last 5 years.
Mind control experiment?
Maria, have you heard about his past 5 years? You'd think they would have ALL over. Can't say I remember anything mentioned about him. This dude was sick to do this. Shouldn't there be other stories? Not saying he was MK ULTRAed. Just sayin somethin more to the story.
I've said it before , and I'll say it AGAIN..
The largest street gang in the United States is, "The Criminals with BADGES"
Psychologists have long told us that the emotional and psychological profiles of cops and criminals are indistinguishable , both groups usually come from the bully class who need to impose their ego's on others.
The tragedy of law enforcement is that the kind of people attracted to it are the least qualified for it.
NUFF SAID ?
Baloney
Sorry, you are wrong. I worked in law enforcement and I am the farthest thing from a bully that you can find. As a mattter of fact I am the one that stood up for those that were being bullied. Oh, I get it you would see that as me imposing my ego on others. I will admit that there are some out there to whom the power goes to their head but most are good people who are trying to do right. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
You sound like a salty ex-con
I have trouble believing people are supporting a killer. He clearly killed innocent people for no reason. He was probably taking prescribed drugs is my guess. He may have been innocent in his accusations but that does not justify killing. I only agree with his call for strict gun control.
yup...his gun control wasn't very good...he miss with a lot of his shots...he need to practiced what he preached...
There have been so many travesties committed by police everywhere and LAPD in particular, that the very high probability is that Donner was telling the truth.
However, to knowingly execute innocent people for someone else's crimes proves that Donner was of the same mettle as those he accused. One of Donner's victims wasn't even related, but was only engaged to a family member. What kind of justice is that?
It's a sad commentary that people are so fed up with police corruption that we can actually feel some empathy for Donner. The police across this nation had better read these posts and take heed. What goes around, comes around and people have had enough.
Exactly Patter, Tanenaka. Whatever wrong the LAPD might have done in handling his termination that is NO justification for his actions.
What he should have done. What ANYONE should do under such circumstances, is to notify the press. That's the best and easiest way to get your story out there. Then it can't be hidden under the bureaucracy.
Ended up like the rest of the "Donner" party, deader than a "Dorner" (door nail.)
i guess if it was a crime to burn him...the donner party would have taken a bite out of crime...and helped Mc Gruff...
The truth may never come out. Where there is smoke there is fire, his higher ups may be corrupt, which many are in our country. Its always do as I say or hit the highway mentality of corporate, and many agency's in America. The little dogs get shoved around everyday in this country. Sad Dorner made the choices he did.
You are so right in that many higher ups in the country are corrupt, Odumbo, Holder, both Clintons, and just about every high ranking democrat in the country.
And Barry, you can say the same for the high ranking Republicans. Neither side is better than the other. They are both corrupt.
Donna, the Republicans are not in charge, the democrats are. It's hard to be corrupt if you don't have control of anything to be corrupt about. Of course both parties are corrupt when they are in power.
Ed McT-2404427, amen to your comment. This is exactly what I know and have been saying all along. After all the person who messes on the beach don't have a care; it's the person who stepped in it who experiences the stink. The truth is that nothing much has changed with the LAPD since Chief Gates ran the show. I recall quite well how my co-worker at a Beverly Hills law firm would take time out of her busy work-day schedule to call her police officer husband at Parker Center to report that a black person (man, woman or child) still existed on the face of the earth and had just walked by her office door. She saw it as her duty to conduct the exercise and did it so many times that I still remember her officer husband's badge number. Needless to say I was happy when my co-worker and her husband retired with his other Furman buddies to a Cascade, Idaho commune to become the protecting gods of that community, because in the least it meant a few more of us could stop to get a drink at any water fountain and the social construct disease might catch a break.
Cry me a river about racism, get over it and get on with your life. I lost three jobs to unqualified black people, they got the job just because they were black. Did I whine about it, no, I just got another job and went about my business. Black people always cry racism any time something doesn't go there way.
@Barry Sotero,
Your rants sound like a 13 year old. I'll play the race card for you...I am a white middleaged male and...lets play this card too...A REPUBLICAN. Lets put all of that behind us for a moment though. Let's suppose this Dorner guy was guilty of all of the accusations that our biased media reports, and that the totally "transparent" LAPD also accuses him of. Based on those "assumptions", our 6th ammendment is put in place to perform the function of a "fair trial by an impartial jury". Now, lets suppose he is not guilty based upon all of the accusations of our "trusty" media and the "supposedly transparent LAPD". Again, refer to the 6th on that one as well. Regardless of guilt or no guilt, HIS, yours, and my 6th ammendment rights have been deemed not legitimate in this case. WHAT???? As an "EX-CONVICT" yourself, as you've stated above, you surely felt at the moment you were being tried, and for whatever your charge, you whole heartedly believed that due process was due you based upon the constitution. Why would this mans case be any different than yours? Regardless of the accusations? The accusations against him are and always will be now...JUST ACCUSATIONS, that still require a due process of law with an unpartial jury regardless of how you feel. This country, our government, our law enforcement, and people like yourself have no basis or constitutional right to deny that process to ANYONE! And, our society has become acceptant to this???? HELL NO!!!! When we as citizens, of a "FREE SOCIETY", see corruptness, it is our duty to report it. When we start judging, sentencing, and executing an individual based upon "hear say" or "circumstancial" evidence, whether from our media or the LAPD, then we have done an injustice to those who are protected by the 6th. A day is coming in this country when political corruptness and those deemed to be upholding the laws they make, are going to face a reckoning day, Just as Mr. Dorner has faced. There is a GOD who will judge all of mankind. They may have swept this thing under the rug as quickly and subtly as is possible but, rest assured the GREAT CLEANER, if you will, is going to pull back every stone and rug and wipe it clean. We all know there are bad cops and bad politicians and government officials but, it will never excuse the rights given to human beings under the constitution...regardless of RACE, SOCIAL STATUS, DEMOGRAPHY, WEALTH, etc... Never forget the process in which you were allowed to be tried for your charges as this same process is due all of us when and if that time ever arises. Go back to school and study up on this...HELL,,,,,,,better yet, use your computer to study up on the constitution instead of entereing into any forum and deeming yourself as a reformed and worthy judge with a criminal history. That's exactly why our judicial system has failed us once again anyways...CRIMINALS TRYING TO DECIDE THE FATE OF OTHER CRIMINALS! Now, you get a life and move on my brother!!
Why did this black man kill innocent white people?
Guinius, I will explain this too you like a five year old, I committed crimes, was arrested and went to a trial. The difference is when they came to arrest me was I did not start shooting at the police, if I had they being the police would have had every right to shoot and kill me. You wrote a big diatribe which means nothing as compared to what actually happened. Get the facts little man before you open your big mouth. They were not just accusations against this man, they already had the proof that he killed the people, maybe you thought they should do nothing and just let him keep on killing. You are a democrat and just don't know it.
My perception of you changes nothing about who and what you actually are. My friend, let me first say this...I am 100% REPUBLICAN BY CHOICE AND KNOW EXACTLY THAT! But, this is neither a REPUBLICAN OR A DEMOCRAT issue at hand...this is a constitutional issue that includes all of the likes. I believe in the right to bear arms and to protect oneself from the TYRANNY of a CORRUPT SYSTEM (aka. GOVERNMENT, LAW ENFORCEMENT), and even from the likes of someone like yourself... I know EXACTLY which side of the fence I stand on in ALL situations. You are a "reformed" criminal with a bitter and easily led 13 year old mentality. I don't hold that against you as you say you've "done your time" to society and repaid your transgressions. But, my "diatribe", which you obviously only read in part and not in whole, is to alert YOU that YOU ARE NOT in any way the judge nor jury for neither this case nor any other. This is why we select IMPARTIAL jurors for trials. Unfortunately, and because of your criminal history, you will NEVER be selected to participate in the system of JURY. Therefore, your rants here are DISMISSED due to PARTIALITY...or just plain NONSENSICAL. OH, let me finish with this....The next time you choose to go down the wrong path, remember that allegations are all we need to convict you anymore...NOT FACTS. The judicial system is broken... and when we as HUMAN BEINGS (not repubs, dems, red, yellow, black or white) HUMAN BEINGS understand this...then maybe we could collectively stand as ONE NATION again and direct this country and sytem that resembles something close to what our forefathers had envisioned.
Dorner made a lot of mistakes. The next "Dorner" will learn from Dorner(rev.1) and the corrupt will eventually pay for their crimes. that's why the government is in such a hurry to disarm us. The electronic age exposes corruption faster than the dirtbags can cover it up.
Come on wing nuts. This guy chose to use the sword for revenge and died by the sword instead of taking another approach to solving a preceived problem in a peaceful way. That in itself indicates severe mental illness. But, everyone loves a good conspiracy don't they.
i want to know how they said that his wallet with his drivers license was found near the hotel he stayed at a week before his drivers license was found on his completely chared body?
Fire doesn't destroy every single thing beyond recognition every time. They make driver's licenses that can be taken out of wallets now. And you can also get duplicates made. Crazy world we live in with this new fangled technology.
F U C K Y O U douche bag!
Leave a man or woman without redress (justice), and some want to take things into their own hands, that is the price you, (LAPD) pay. LAPD destroyed Dorner's life, turning justice on its head, and they ended up with dead and injured innocent people. Do they care?, probably not, just another casualty, another "cost of doing business" as long as their ox isn't gored.
Terry the LAPD did not destroy his life, HE DID it all by himself. He is the one who committed the crimes not the LAPD, I can't believe that you are trying to defend this scumbag, he is right where he belongs, in hell for what he has done.
This is for Barry Sotero:
Barry, I have read all your comments; they paint you as one hell of a bitter man. Your bitterness is clouding your judgment.
The only reason you've taken this hard stance is because you lost 3 jobs to "unqualified black men." If that was both a fact and a truth, then it was most unfortunate; however, how do you know that they got your job because they were black men?
I don't condone what Dorner did, in fact, I think his was an act of cowardice, but that does not justify your using this occasion to indirectly demonize all black people. Unfortunately, and I must say, inadvertently, your whole reaction paints a picture of somebody who seems to be mad at Dorner because Dorner was the perpetrator, and he also happened to be black. If Dorner had been your race, perhaps you will be applauding. You will sound more credible if you let go of your bitterness, and try to, at least, start off by giving Dorner the benefit of the doubt that he may have been given a short shrift. Why else would the LAPD reopen the case if he was as guilty as the system made him appear. Maybe starting from this premise could make your head rule your heart, and help you investigate the whole sad drama with a fair shake of objectivity. As things stand right now, your whole demeanor and reaction paint you as nothing but one unrequited moron.
RAKRONG,I could care less if he were green, any person that committs a horrible crime such as murder doesn't deserve remorse from anyone. I am extremely happy, a loving wife, three great kids, and two wonderful careers, If I got any happier I would look like the Joker all day long. As far as how I know that the unqualified black person got the job, there was 20 jobs available and 10 of them had to go to minorities, my grade on the test was higher then any black person that took it, I did not get the job but low and behold 10 black were hired. If you think that he deserves to have something looked into because he said so, then you are taking his word because he is black, no other reason. Show me any fact that says he was done wrong, he is a piece of crap. I as a caucasian stand for what's right, no matter the race of the person, I don't stand up for a caucasian simply because they are that, most black people stand up for black people regardless if they are guilty or not, I.E, Marion Barry, William Jefferson. If you think this idiot was such a good guy, then you have serious issues and do not deserve to be conversed with.
spears, your making a lot of assumptions based on very little or nothing.
Dorner had redress. He apealed it twice and lost both times.
LAPD did not ruin his life. He obviously perceived that they did, but there isn't an ounce of evidence to support that they did. On the contrary the evidence points to the fact he made up the kicking incident against his training officer AFTER she gave him an unsatisfactory rating on his probation.
@Terry Spears ,well said .....LAPD have to stop thinking they are GOD and can get away with anything.
It comes to mind the abuse in Fullerton of homeless Kelly Thomas , beating to death in front of civilians at the train station . Even captain Quan Dorner's lawyer had said "Dorner was used as a scapegoat "
Ed McT - 2404427, amen to your comment as I have been echoing your exact sentiment all along. After all the person who messes on the beach don't have a care; it's the person who stepped in it who experiences the stink. Moreover the LAPD has changed little to none since Chief Gates ran that show. And who can forget the nastiness of his reign on the black community. To this day I still recall a co-worker of mine at a Beverly Hills law firm who took time out of her busy workday schedule to contact her police officer husband at Parker Center each time she even saw the shadow of a black man, woman, or child, on the sixth floor of the building. She believed it was her duty to report that black people were still in existence on the face of the earth and needed to be corralled for extermination. She called her officer husband so many times I still remember his badge number from mid-70s. Needless to say I was happy when she, and her husband retired, along with their Furman buddies, and moved up to Cascade, Idaho to become to protecting gods of their new community.
This guy obviously committed violent crimes to avenge what he preceived as wrongful treatment toward himself. Could it be that this situation was simply a man who had deeply buried emotional issues and finally lost control of his personal sociopathic rage?
Food for thought...
But then everyone loves a good conspiracy, don't they.
not everyone is trying to make sense of this. surely not the LAPD. this guy couldn't believe he was betrayed. his psyche didn't allow for it so when it finally sank in, that bad things really do happen to good people, he snapped. it's terrible he killed innocent people, but i believe his accounts of his firing. at least the initial incident. he broke the code and they rallied around the perp, not the whistleblower. his romanticised view of policing, where he was going to make things right, came crashing down. just a violent don quiote.
this stupid ass chief aint a very good lier these police jokes got what they deserved in my book thats the way it goes when thugs like this covers @!$%# up dorner was about to bust ther ass in ther dirty @!$%# few months down the road they will get busted you cant get away with it
. . . . Dorner was a good person, who just got with the wrong crowd . . . .
Joe your response is so stupid that it does not deserve comment.
Yet there you are commenting.
Go figure.
Barry so are ALOT of YOUR posts
a good man dont climb to the top like dorner did just to go down like this they were pissed and whinned like a bunch wussies that they are because he would not stoop to there level damn what do they exspect when they black ball someone like that only thing i see dorner done wrong was taking the family members out you just dont do that as far for the rest of what he accomplished myself nos he was justified to bad he couldnt git more than he did they shouldnt be dirty but they will be exsposed wait and see probly about 6 months to a year rip dorner good job
Hey you dumb, uneducated fk, did you just drop out of the 2nd grade and join your gang of criminal scumbags. Hope you are the next to get wiped out by a scumbag killer coward like "Dummer"!
ub1, good man climb to the top? Dorner was a probationary officer on LAPD. That's low man on the todempole. BTW, he was also failing at that.