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Southern Poverty Law Center
Stacy Dawson, a Missouri high school student, had been told he couldn't attend prom with his boyfriend.
An openly gay Missouri teenager has won the right to attend high school prom with his boyfriend after threatening legal action, the district superintendent said Friday.
Stacy Dawson, a 17-year-old senior at Scott County Central High School in Sikeston, Mo., had been told last year that he couldn't bring his boyfriend due to a line in the school's handbook that said "students will be permitted to invite one guest, girls invite boys and boys invite girls."
When Dawson questioned the policy, he was told by a school administrator that the school board would not consider revising it, according to The Southern Poverty Law Center, a nonprofit civil rights organization representing Dawson. So on Thursday -- Valentine's Day -- Dawson had The Southern Poverty Law Center send a letter to Scott County Central High and the school district threatening legal action.
One day later, the district had good news for Dawson: They were removing the offending line from their handbook, and said the line was never meant to be exclusive in the first place.
"I found out why the stipulation in the student handbook was originally put in there, and it's rather innocent, to be honest," Alvin McFerren, Scott County Central School District superintendent, said. "This was during a time 10-15 years ago that the previous administration was having issues with some of the students trying to come in on either the single rate or the couple rate. They implemented that to make sure they couldn't circumvent the rates that students were supposed to pay as they entered into our dances."
McFerren said Dawson will be allowed to go to prom with his boyfriend.
"It was never intended to be a discriminatory thing," he said. "We want an educational environment for all of our kids and we're not ever going to discriminate as to whether or not the board has the policy and we don't do that based on sexual orientation. Period."
McFerren said he felt the community, which has just over 360 students in the entire district, would take the change well.
"We are a family," McFerren said. "We're such a small school that I don't feel as if there will be any negative reactions whatsoever. It was never intended to be a policy that would create any controversy in the first place."
In a phone call with NBC News on Friday, Dawson said he was "incredibly happy" with the decision and is "really looking forward" to going to the prom with his boyfriend.
"I automatically told my boyfriend," Dawson said. "He was just as happy as I was."
Dawson said many classmates have told him that it’s good he is standing up for what he believes in.
"My classmates have been really supportive," he said.
In its letter to the school and district, the law center had alleged that under a 1969 Supreme Court decision -- Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District -- Dawson's school could not legally censor his right to free expression, including the right to express himself by taking a same-sex date. The Tinker ruling declared that students don't “shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gates.”
The letter also cited a more recent case out of Mississippi, where a girl sued her high school over a ban on same-sex couples at the prom in 2010. Constance McMillen ultimately won the case against Itawamba County Agricultural High School after a federal judge ruled that the school district violated her constitutional rights to freedom of speech by not allowing her to wear a tuxedo and bring her girlfriend to the prom.
Scott County Central High's prom is scheduled for April 20. Dawson's lawyer said the change was welcome, but that the law center had yet to receive written confirmation the policy has been removed from the student handbook.
"If it is indeed true that the policy has been permanently changed, it represents a big step forward for LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender) students in a part of the country that frequently lacks community support for students like Stacy," Alesdair Ittelson, staff attorney for the law center, said.
"We wish that schools out there would proactively take these unconstitutional policies off the books," Ittelson told NBC News.
NBC News Staff Writer Vignesh Ramachandran contributed to this story.
This story was originally published on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:11 PM EST
Leave a Comment:
Glad to see some things can get solved out of court.
I'm sick and tired of gays pushing (no pun intended) their agenda onto everyone else to try and make themselves feel like it's o.k. to be morally wrong
More trivial social justice nonsense news from PMSNBC.
In the meantime this "couple" will most likely graduate illiterate from our criminal government run public school system.
Instead of educating our children so they can compete in the 21st century economy they're taught about Adam and Steve, how to put a condom on a cucumber and whether Stacy can bring Lance to the prom.
In the meantime, most Americans read at an 8th grade level. Most high-school graduates (including most adults) don't know how to use--their, there or they're--in a sentence correctly. Most Americans can't calculate 40% of 880 in their head if their life depended on it.
21 million Americans can't read at all, 45 million are marginally illiterate.
One-fifth (20%) of high school graduates can't read their diplomas.
Yep, as we continue to devolve as a society intellectually, morally and culturally the value of education doesn't matter, as long as some people can bring their same-sex date to the prom or some college bimbo gets her birth control pills paid for.
God Bless and save America, you may be our only hope for real change.
...yeah and those pesky women with their health agenda and those minorities with their human rights agenda (sarcasm)....You can "feel" all you want to deny other rights based on what you "feel" is not right, morally or otherwise.
JimSpence
You want America to keep moving forward with educational progress BUT want us to move backward morally to the middle ages?
I'm sick and tired of bigots (like Brutforce) pushing their intolerent and ignorant agenda on everyone else and trying to make themselves feel like it's o.k. to be ethically wrong.
"You want America to keep moving forward with educational progress BUT want us to move backward morally to the middle ages?"
You mean where we had more than one wife, the church could torture people, people married for land, burn pagans at the stake, etc. Oh yeah very morale the middle ages.
In retrospect, I believe that straight couples should stop pushing their agendas on everyone else. The school should have set the cost for prom for everyone at the same price. Two people? Twice the cost. Why do all of the single people have to subsidize these couples proms? Where are the conservatives to whine about that?
I understand completely. I myself am sick and tired of self-righteous idiots proclaiming their right to determine and define morality for everyone else.
Now if we can finally push the Atheists to attend Christmas school plays the world would be complete...........
Bruteforce - some of us are sick of you deciding what's morally wrong for others. Decide that for yourself by all means and do not engage in a same-sex relationship, but you don't get to make that decision for the rest of us.
JimSpence - interesting statistics. I'd love to see the source for the 20% of high school grads can't read their [i did use it correctly, you'll note] diplomas. And 40% of 880? What sort of mental arithmetic do you expect the average American to be doing?
What really interests me is why you think this particular news item somehow worsened the state of public education. You think there was teaching unattended to because of this disagreement?
I would argue:
1) This kid and likely many others just learned a whole lot about democracy, our judicial system, and our Bill of Rights.
2) This school is going to be more conducive to teaching and learning as more kids feel they are as accepted and included as all the rest.
You mean like the gays are doing now. Right?
@Bruteforce-2815572 So equality is an agenda? Do you feel so threatened by folks unlike yourself that you can't see that equal isn't an agenda but a right? You are a sad, sad person.
@GLCSR Awwww. I feel so sad that things change and you can't deal with it. boofrigginhoo.
Bruteforce-2815572
I am tired of heterosexuals feeling they can treat homosexuals like second class citizens even though they pay the same taxes YOU pay. It is not morally wrong and if a gay teenager wants to take their date to the prom, please share with us how that impacts you. This is America, and the last time I checked, everyone is entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
JimSpence: Stay the course, brother. Irrespective of what these ignorant liberals with their Pollyanish view of the world have to say, you are 100% correct in your assessment of the state of our country.
Liberals have been dumbing down America for years now as they continue to pad their voting base of parasites by pandering to the ostensibly oppressed and less fortunate. Yeah, whatever...
In the end the devolution of this country will take its predictable toll, America will become a laughing stock to the rest of the world, and as we begin our accelerated descent into that immoral abyss (and I frame that in a purely secular context as I'm an atheist), no other country will lift a finger to come to our aid, and why would they? We won't be worth saving.
Thank you liberals, and just keep on clinging to your utterly ridiculous and baseless arguments of, "Oh, well I guess you just want us to go back to the days when blacks were slaves and women couldn't vote, huh??!!" as an excuse for destroying our country with your putrid agenda.
GLSCR: Not right. No gay is saying that you or anyone else has to change your lifestyle or your moral principles so that a gay couple can attend a prom. In contrast, you insist that you have the moral right to deny this gay couple that right, thus forcing your moral agenda onto their lives. Even those who supposedly can't read their diploma ought to be able to understand this distinction.
How are gays determining your morality?
Dont like gay sex? Dont have gay sex. I promise no one will force you. If they do, thats rape. Report it to the authorities.
I couldn't agree more, and what about those who want to enjoy their right to walk down a public street with their AR-15 slung over their shoulder?
@Brute 1.1...I totally agree...But as far as I am concerned, if you are Gay...Then fine...Go and live your own life, but STOP pushing your agenda on us STRAIGHTS!!...The more you try and push your agenda, the more you have lost ground....Maybe one day, you will figure this out...
The only agenda is yours and those like you. All the kid wanted to do is go to the dance and be himself. If left up to the kids they could care less about him being gay.
Hate to break it to you but I bet you push something somewhere too. The only agenda is yours and people like you. All the kid wanted to do is go to the prom with the date of his choice. In other word be equal to all the straight kids. Not better, Not different. Just equal. Your book of morals says it is unclean and forbidden to touch let alone eat pork. A couple of verses away from it's prohibition on "laying with a man". Do you eat pork? Is there a pork agenda?
Has anyone ever heard they should be "morally gay?" Nope. It's goes something like "morally straight." The gay agenda is deteriorating America. Keep it in the closet.
My co-worker is such a bigot. He keeps telling everyone here at work they will have a fudge packing contest at the prom. it seemed like a majority of people thought that was funny.
Jamie R---Not true on any account, the fact they had to threaten the school with punitive judicial action implies it is no longer the choice of the board. It is legal blackmail the pulse of the divisive, terror backed left. How is this not forcing. You libbies use courts and loss of money as your weapon of choice but you are killers just the same. Another thing your idea of morality and mine are supposed to be different that is called choice, not let me do this or I will sue you.
Dont force your pork agenda down my throat... wait, I take that back. I support the pork agenda. BACON
Tom-527937
http://www.readfaster.com/education_stats.asp
It’s the last one in the literacy statistics group.
You may want to read the other reading, literacy and education statistics, you should be shocked.
Schools have a very simple division of labor. The teachers teach and the students learn. Until our children are competitive in the global economy this GLBT nonsense must end. This is only news because PMSNBC wants it to be news.
Where is the news that American students rank in the bottom one half to one third of all other OECD countries in math, science and reading? Where was the outrage last summer when the Chicago Public School system teachers went on strike for more money, less work and less evaluation of the teachers as the 11th Graders Meeting College Readiness Benchmarks were: 21% in Reading, 19% in Math, 11% in Science, 38% in English?
Unfortunately we’re a Republic and not a Democracy. The Founder’s and Framer’s warned us about the “excesses of Democracy”. This is just another example of our pathetic public education system not teaching our children correctly. You may want to read up about how we are a Federal Constitutional Republic with a Representative Democracy. I’ll give you a hint about the Democracy mentioned here. It simply means we have periodic free elections, it has nothing to do with the form of government we have.
Homosexuals asking to be treated like everyone else, should be a non-issue. "OH THE GAYS ARE RUINING OUR COUNTRY!!!". No the continued destruction on our middleclass, by corporate greed, and self-righteous yahoos, who want their religious "moralities", to become our laws. Your religion does not belong in any form of government, and should not influence any public institution.
Saying being a homosexual is "immoral", has as much credibility as it being acceptable to sell your child, because "god" said so.
There is nothing wrong with love, and nothing right about bigotry.
I remember girls and boys going in groups of friends, sometimes all-girl or all-boy, when they did not have a date to prom. How is this any different? Would the religious-right prefer we ban all these stag groups as well? I mean, look at them... a group of 4 girls going to prom together. How do we know they are not lesbians? Oh the humanity!
God damn religious morons and their stupid fairy tale. What? It's not a fairy tale? ... Ok, go live inside the belly of a whale and tell us how that works out. We will await your report.
I am just curious how this is determined to be a violation of Free speech. Stopping gays from attending a prom isn't affecting their free speech rights. How does the law wrap free speech around a girl wearing a tuzedo and attending her prom with another girl. Seems pretty narrow to say someones free speech was violated by requiring opposite sex couples. Seems more like a violation of a civil right, not free speech. Either way, suing to gets ones own way seems to be the playcard of the left lately. The majority doesn't want or like it, let's sue or find a politician who doesn't believe in Majority votes and voila, minority agenda's go forward. When did the definition of majority lose it's meaning, right about the time our latest liberal was elected.........
Dom
All polls indicate that the majority SUPPORTS homosexuals. You know, the polls you did not believe before the election but they turned out to be correct... ya, those same ones.
YOU, who oppose homosexuals, are the minority now. So take your own advice, the majority has spoken.
@mguy-478,
How ya gonna say, "God damn" and not believe in God? Why not say "Buhda damn" or "Bigfoot damn"...... maybe "Bigbang damn"? Just thought I'd throw some gas on this bon-fire.
This could've been the perfect story if;
He wanted to take an "assault rifle" he manufactured as part of an Eagle Scout project he was not allowed to accept. He could, stop along the way to drop off an undocumented immigrant at a planned parenthood clinic for a "procedure" covered by state or federally provided medical insurance.
Yeah, who the hell needs morals? Might as well make rape, murder and theft legal while we are at it. I find it quite amusing (actually sickening, to tell the truth) that the progressive leftists scream about the savageness of people with firearms killing other people as if it is the firearm's fault, all the while denigrating the need for morals when it suits their agenda. After all, the THEORY of evolution revolves around the assumption of survival of the fittest and no moral absolutes. So, if the strong weed out the weak by killing them we are simply strengthing the human species, right? How inconsistent can you possibly be?
JimSpence, would you PLEASE stop confusing them with facts???
Here is the way that it works now days, for those who have not yet figured it out. If you have the NERVE to say ANYTHING deragatory against a sodomite, you are labeld a HATE SPEECH monger. If however, a sodomite wishes to make fun of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, My God, Jehovah, or me as a devout Christian. Well thats just fine and dandy. No, actually it is ENCOURAGED and they will make all of the above the punch lines of ENDLESS jokes. Well I have a little 4-11 for everyone. The same Constitution that gives sodomites the right to criticize me, my Savior, my God and my Beliefs, also gives me the same rights to voice my opinion on how I despise their filthy lifestyle. It goes against everything I believe. I dont HATE them, I just dont like the way they live. This once great nation, I served 20 years with the Marines, mulitple front line combat tours. Has been being eroded from the inside, rotted from the core out, for many years now. I will NOT hold my silence.!!! Now go ahead and "collapse" my comments, as you always love to do, to anyone with the GUTS to stand for our Nation the way it used to be. It's acually good to be collapsed as it gets read even more :)
Well, when you get called a bigot and are forcing business's and private companies to change or be protested against, most people don't want the headache or the tag layed on them. Despite what you say, or how many MSNBC polls you cite, while most decent people have no issue with or want to see any harm to homosexuals over their lifestyle, majorities still have an issue with Gay marriage. i realize it is only a matter of time before you bully that agenda fully onto the books, it is still something that goes against the norms of civilization going back eons. To simply say we should change it, even though 50% are against it is just wrong. To expect those against it to change their minds or to ttry and embarass them into changing is ridiculous. I don't feel my position is wrong anymore than you feel about yours. If i am not out harming anyone with actions but personally i feel homosexuality is wrong, isn't that my right. Should i then be exposed to ridicule and harassment because of my beliefs?. If i'm not calling you an idiot for being pro-gay, don't call me one for being pro-hetero.
Dom,
It's freedom of expression, not just speech. Hence flag burning also falls under the First Amendment, or t shirts with provocative sayings. And we live in a republic, therefore whatever stats you have about the percent of people who agree with this, or don't, are irrelevant. We don't vote on civil rights. In fact, the very purpose of being a republic, is to protect the rights of minorities from the whims of the majority.
Irvani,
This is NOT judicial blackmail, and until the case is about gay people forcing the school board to attend the prom with same sex dates, nothing is being forced on them. Not being allowed to intrude on someone else's expression, doesn't intrude on theirs.
It's elementary, Watson.
Bronx,
You're entitled to your opinion, you aren't entitled to our acceptance of it. You don't want to hear people who disagree with you call you out, then don't post your BIGOTED crap online.
Everyone Else,
Why is it any of your business who anyone takes to prom???
Well, the majority of people who voted in 2012 voted for Democrats, and yet the Gerrymandered Old Party retained control of the House. Other than a good job of redistricting, I don't know why they think it means anything about where America stands on the issues.
I am sure they had great times attending the pagan festivities until Christianity took it over and claimed it as their own.
@Sarah-3043284
It's our business because MSNBC said so. Who am I to argue?
Mexico,
Nobody gives a @!$%# what you think a "sin" is.
Pistol,
The point is, who people bring to prom has zero bearing on anyone's life except the two people attending together.
It isn't legal "blackmail" if the law is on their side.
LOL Sarah, great first line. I think their both hollow brained...........
Stopping two people of different races from marrying doesn't affect their free speech, either. Right? They're free to marry anyone else of the same race. Nope, no infringement of rights there.
@Mguy...Just what "Pole" have you been reading?..."All polls indicate that the majority SUPPORTS homosexuals."...If this is the case, then WHY are you so upset?....And if us STRAIGHTS are in the minority now, then you should be happy....LOL!!!...Maybe we will have a STRAIGHT parade....Would you like to join us in our cause?...
Sarah, you realize I was basically being a smarta$$, right? Far too serious for Friday afternoon. ;)
Tinbashr
Who said I am upset? I just enjoy poking fun of the hypocritical religious-right. You guys make it too easy.
I never said "STRAIGHTS" are in the minority, I said support for homosexuals are the majority. There are a lot of straight people, like myself, who support them.
It's called "reading comprehension"... you should look into it.
And which "cause" would that be? Is there a specific right that you are denied, because you are straight? I am straight and I am not being denied any rights, or benefits.
If you would like to explain the exact benefit which you are legislatively denied, because of your sexual preference, I'd love to hear it.
Pistol,
Sorry, I haven't gone to happy hour yet. ;)
Just because the MAJORITY supports CIVIL RIGHTS does not mean that straights are in the minority....
Coming into this conversation from a different point of view, I thought I'd give my two cents (or more, depending on the value of the subsequent comments) on this subject. Having grown up in a gay household, raised by a lesbian mother, I grew up with the stigma on my shoulders, and some people were afraid homosexuality was a contagious disease, passed by touch or in the air. Some people avoided me like the plague, thinking my presence would turn them gay, just because my mother was a lesbian.
I grew up as a straight man, have already been married, had a kid, got divorced, and am about to get married for the second (and hopefully last) time. I have had more female partners than I care to admit, and tend to make friends with the ladies easier than I do with the guys (the same can be said in reverse for most women), and nobody has caught the "gay germ" from me.
I have plenty of gay friends, and I see it pretty simple and straight-forward: if a person is happy with that special someone in their lives, I'm happy for them. If they want to marry that special someone, I'll help them celebrate the good news with anyone else that wants to know. What other people do in the privacy of their own homes is their business, not mine.
No matter how you look at it, polls from any source are always biased in one way or another. You will rarely if ever be able to find a truly non-biased poll for any subject. Gay marriage has been a touchy subject for many years, and while the ultra-religious find it a sin according to their "holy book," look at it this way:
Gay Marriage vs. Black Equal Rights vs. Women's Equal Rights vs. Cigarette Smokers - this could be read in either format, as there are very polar opposite opinions on both matters. For instance, a long time ago, people with black skin were slaves to the White Man, and during the Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln (a white man who did have slaves of his own) abolished slavery. Jump forward a few decades, and there was still discrimination against colored people, enter Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, who had a dream that all men and all women would be considered equal to one another. he was assassinated for his outlandish beliefs, yet a few decades down the road, black people were given equal rights in our country, even though to this day there is still prejudice against them.
In the "Holy Bible," women were considered of a lower grade than slaves and horses, were also considered property of Man, subordinate to their men's behaviours and whims. In the Bible, if a man's brother dies in wedlock without a child, that surviving brother is obligated to take his brother's widow as his own wife, and she must subject herself to her former brother-in-law without question. To this day, women may have equal rights, have the ability to vote and make their voices heard, but there is still prejudice against them.
Blacks, women, Asian, Arab, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Atheist, Pagan and many other non-Christian folk have all felt the sting of prejudice in one way or another. Putting this term out there lightly, my so-called Christian friends, have you really looked in the mirror at yourself and liked what you saw, have you truly followed the teachings of your Jewish savior Jesus Christ? How many of you still believe you are doing the world a favor by trying to preach to people who don't believe the same things you do, and don't understand why those folks don't want to follow your beliefs instead of their own?
How many Christians are aware that all modern Christian holidays have a Pagan foundation? How do you explain Easter, aside from the supposed rebirth of Christ? Where do the chocolate eggs, jelly beans and rabbits fit into your Easter vision? If Jesus Christ was actually born in the late Springtime, why do you celebrate his birth on December 25th? The honest answer is, both of these "Christian" holidays are actually Pagan holidays.
Easter (aka Ostara) is the Pagan celebration of the fertility of the Earth, hence the reasoning behind the Easter Bunny and Easter Eggs, all symbols of fertility, signs of the Earth waking up, asking for a fertile season and bountiful harvests. Christmas (aka Yule) is a celebration of the rebirth of the Sun, after the longest winter day (or the shortest amount of sun on the Winter Solstice), where the days will start getting longer and warmer. The Christmas tree is another Pagan symbol, as are gift-giving presents to the loved ones. The tree is a symbol of life, and that is what Pagans celebrate...life, not a silly horned demon that promotes evil and injustice.
Time to wake up and see the world actually has more various forms of religion than you actually realize, and understand that all religions are saying the same thing...love one another, as you would love yourself. An it harm none, do what ye will. Think about it before flagging this post with red flags and more hate.
Dang it. I thought Sarah had gone away. But since she didn't...
I support a focus for the better of all Americans. If there is something that will actually strengthen us as Americans that can come out of supporting gay public behavior then I have missed it. Same for anything else like this issue. It is very obvious that we are declining as a country precisely because we have no collective values and consequently, we can't really accomplish much because we are so individually focused on personal freedoms.
And Sarah, just for you, I haven't seen a single post of yours that espouses values that bring the nation together. Not one single post. You want individual freedoms, like alienating a corner of the prom dance floor to two boys hanging on each other, to displace what would otherwise be a really cool night for those that honor traditional values. And you love the attention of the commenter's bully pulpit to get your points across.
Yuck.
#1.13
I disagree with your opinion 100%. Two weeks ago there was an article on this website(and if you are an avid reader of this site you will recall) about a teacher that had been accused of, and admitted to, having a sexual relationship with one of her students. The student, by our marvelous system of checks and balances, was determined to not have the appropriate level of maturity to decide whether that action was right or wrong.
The same situation is evident here. How can a 16-17 year old boy that sleeps with his teacher not be mature enough to make that adult decision, but a 17 year old homosexual(same age you see) IS mature enough to bring a same-sex date to his prom? In my opinion they are one in the same, and a certain prejudice is being made clear.
Heterosexual men are not mature enough at the age of 16 to know they want to sleep with an older woman, but 17 year old homosexuals are mature enough to know they want to sleep with another 17 year old homosexual? Anybody else see the problem here?
Don't get me wrong, I am in no way anti-gay, but I AM anti biased. And to my eyes, this is a biased story that should have never been elevated to a national scale.
You do realize that ALL includes gay people, right? The answer, an end to bigotry, hate and the dehumanization of your fellow citizens. You can start there.
You do realize your post is one giant contradiction, right? That you're talking about bringing ALL people together, and then talking about not allowing gay people to be included.
What you mean, is that you want everyone to come together as YOU dictate. And I personally VOW to never allow you that power. Bring it, Marty. I hope you're ready to go down in the history books right next to those angry white people, spitting on black kids. Because THAT'S your destiny.
Yuck, yeah that about sums it up.
Dom
You don't think denying a homosexual hospital visitation for their dying loved one is "harm"? What would you describe the feeling if your wife was dying, and you were not allowed to see her in her final moments?
You don't think denying benefits to the families of service members is "harm"? At the very least it is financial harm. They served and gave their life just like their straight brothers-in-arms. Their families felt the same stress and anxiety. But their families do not deserve benefits whereas a straight family does?
You don't think denying this person the right to go to prom causes "harm"? The social aspect of high school is one of the most important things to kids, which is why so many kill themselves over the "harm" they experience from social interactions. Your kind has spent years ostracizing them, making them feel inferior and evil... doing everything you can to harm them through social interactions. Your kind has pushed them to commit suicide because of how you treat them. You don't call that "harm"?
Should homosexual be exposed to ridicule and harassment from you, because the chemicals dopamine and serotonin are physiologically released in their brain in response to a different external stimuli than yours?
Sarah-3043284
BINGO!!!!!
You finally hit it on the head.
Obviously PMSNBC thinks it’s a national issue that everyone knows however.
This is a local issue at least and a State issue at best.
If they want to headline this story then they make it our business.
You know NBC and all the other Liberal/Progressive networks have hacks sitting in their little cubicles gleaning these social justice issues to sensationalize.
For as much as you Libbies complain about keeping government out of your bedroom, you seem to be pushing a lot of what GLBT’s do in their bedroom on everyone else.
By the looks of all the collapsed comments above it seems you Libbies do give a @!$%#.
It also shows how shallow your argument is about that sacrosanct "freedom of expression" you so advocate.
Marty
You know what else you missed? The fact that "gay public behavior" is not illegal.
Shocking, right? Did you know that two homosexuals can walk down the street holding hands... and that is legal?
AND... did you know that two homosexuals can kiss, IN PUBLIC... and that is also legal?
Finally... do you know how we can make America stronger? By treating these events the same way you treat straight couples doing them, and not being a d**k about. We are stronger when we come together, instead of segregating ourselves into definitions based on what we are attracted to.
The crux of the problem is contained in the headline:
No gay, no lesbian, no bisexual, no transgendered person should have to "win the right to" do anything which is already automatically granted to another person.
No Black, no Hispanic/Latino, no Asian, etc., person should have to "win the right to" do anything which is already automatically granted to a White person.
No Catholic, no Jew, no Muslim, no Hindu, no Buddhist, etc., person should have to "win the right to" do anything which is already automatically granted to a protestant.
No woman should have to "win the right to" do anything which is already automatically granted to a man.
The examples are endless, but the point in each example is the same. This is basic humanity. And we have a very long way to go in America in order to reach a universal understanding that "equal rights" and equal protections" means "EQUAL."
We have a lot of work to doin America, improving our national character, and our basic humanity toward our fellow Americans and other citizens of our world. Let's get to it!
amen Robert in Oregon.....nicely done!!
@mguy..."Who said I was upset" ...Sure sounds like it....Have a nice day.
You have a fundamental misconception of what consists of freedom of expression. As I said above, you're all entitled to your opinions. You're not entitled to our support of them. When someone tells you that you can't post because of what your opinion is, like they were telling these boys they couldn't go to prom, then I'll defend you too.
And by the way, collapsing something neither stops someone from posting, nor does it erase the comment. You're awfully sensitive. Boo hoo, people don't like what you have to say. That doesn't mean they're stopping you from saying it..
And by the way, freedom of expression is a CIVIL RIGHT, ergo a federal issue.
Sarah,
All I ask is that you don't drive away from happy hour. I'd like to go back to disagreeing on Monday. :)
Pistol,
Ahhhh, the beauty of public transportation!
Oh goody! goody! goody! goody! Isn't that special? The boy gets to take his boy friend to the prom, all because of a threatening letter. No spines in that school district, just jello and plastic.
U go as usual Sarah-3043284!!!!
Love your comments:)
"Sarah-3043284" awesome well stated post::::
You know its pretty funny just how long homophobes have held a grudge against homosexual people here on earth and reading some of these post definitely confirms this....
Mexico's Army of Aliens is a serial rereg who gets banned from this site at least twice a week. Moderators please ban him again.
Actually, this is probably not true. They can't file as "Married" like heterosexuals do, even if they have been partners just as long as those heterosexual couples. So, they likely pay more in taxes.
Bigbang damn. :) I would use that, but people would think I'm even crazier than they already do.
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
The fuel nozzle goes in the gas tube, not the oil tube.
will the guy who brought the goat get jealous...if i bring my sheep...she just loves to dance...bust a move sheepy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pACMtRpKanQ
What you won't recognize is that being gay is COMPLETELY NORMAL. Morality is in the eye of the BEHOLDER. Your values are no more legitimate or non-legitimate than anyone else's. Gayness is a sexual preference that some people ARE BORN WITH, it is not a choice. You are extremely ignorant.
Can a social conservative please explain how gay people are pushing their agenda on conservatives or heteros? I'm hetero but Ive never been forced to attend a gay pride parade, I've never been the victim of a hostile makeover nor have I ever been forced to attend a gay marriage or even date a lesbian?
How are heteros affected in any way by this student going to the prom with his BF? Are there gay cooties that I don't know about? He and his date might be the best dressed couple at the prom and might be the only couple to know when to use all 3 forks at the pre-dance dinner.
The salon that I go to is owned by an openly gay man and both heteros and gay people pay the very same prices.
Ive asked the few GLBT people I know what the gay agenda is and even they don't seem to know or they aren't telling me? Is there a secret handshake or password that I dont know about?
Enneagram1:
So being gay is a preference, but you're born with it. Is that the same thing like I was born a certain color but prefer to be another color, so I just change?
Look everyone, if you're going to teach Cultural Diversity throughout the entire school system, then you better damn well practice what you preach. If he desires to bring his boyfriend then that is his prom date. No one said you have to like it, just abide by what you preach! And if you can't don't preach it or don't attend. Remember, no discrimination is to be tolerated including sexual orientation. Think about it, you have to put up with teachers, principals, counselors for 12 years telling you how and win to fart. I think as students attending a prom, you should be able to chill out with whomever you're with, right?
@imnotlost: So to be more clear, I should have used "orientation" instead of "preference". Do you think I should re-post with the correction, or can you figure it out yourself?
Yeah. I see the problem. If a 17 year old male isn't mature enough to date an older woman or date another 17 year old male, then he certainly isn't mature enough to date a 17 year old female, either. Maybe we should raise the minimum dating age to 18 for males?
Morality may be in the eye of the beholder, but it is also a consensus of society that makes civilized life possible. That said, I don't personally find anything about homosexuality to be immoral.
Being gay is NOT completely normal, any more than being nearsighted is completely normal. It would more correctly be called a behavioral sexual disability. Normal sexual behavior promotes reproduction.
That is really the fundamental problem here. Most people agree that homosexuals should be accepted or at least tolerated for who they are, and not be unfairly discriminated against. But insisting that everyone consider it normal is like forcing everyone to admire the emperor's new clothes.
Yes, if everyone would buy into the idea that being gay is perfectly normal, it would certainly make it easier for gay kids to accept themselves and be happy, but it also requires the other 90% of society that isn't gay to accept a lie.
Our society has made great strides over the last few decades in accepting homosexuality. I am saddened to see some of the laws we have enacted to protect gays against discrimination and violence used to twist peoples arms in an attempt to get them to say, "OK, you are perfectly normal, and what a lovely outfit the emperor is wearing!"
I personally don't have a problem with gays getting married, or attending proms, or hanging out at my house for a few drinks (my roommate and close friend is gay). I just wish EVERYONE, gays included, would be more tolerant of the views and feelings of others.
What a bunch of psuedo bigoted tripe. First of all, you don't have gay friends. And second, if you really had no problem with gay people, you would see that it IS perfectly normal. People have been gay since the dawn of time. There's nothing unique about it, there's nothing weird about it. It's a part of life. And a part that effects you not at all. How about this, why don't you lead a campaign to make sure people who do anything remotely kinky in their bedrooms are ALSO not considered normal. I mean, you do realize that homosexuality and who gay people sleep with, no more defines them then your being straight and what you do in your bedroom defines you. I mean, I'm willing to bet you've done some things that some of us wouldn't consider "normal" either. You don't want to hear about it, then keep your nose out of other people's sex lives.
And in the mean time, man up and at least admit to your bigotry.
Bigoted - adjective; utterly intolerant of any creed , belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
Yes Sarah, your response was a bunch of bigoted tripe, thank you for labeling it as such. Your second sentence reveals that you are willing to make direct statements without a shred of truth or any evidence other than your own stereotypes and biases.
I have no problem with people who wear glasses, but their uncorrected vision is not "normal". Go look the word up in the dictionary. my problem is not with gay people, or what they do in the bedroom. My problem is with people like you. People who jump on a political bandwagon that does have a good cause as it's basis, but who then blindly defend any extreme view or measure that purports to be connected to that cause, even to the detriment of the basic cause itself. Most of the gay people who apparently aren't really my friends agree with me on this. In fact, that's where I got the near-sighted analogy.
Perhaps it is you who needs to admit that you've allowed yourself to be brainwashed into becoming a bigot by the politically correct progressive liberals whose acceptance you so desperately crave.
Please, a spade is a spade and you are a spade. If you had no issue with gay people, you wouldn't have gone to the trouble of posting on a public website to make sure everyone knew that you think they aren't normal.
And as I said before, stop lying, you don't have gay friends.
And I'm perfectly fine being bigoted against bigots and bigotry. I would be as bad as you, if I wasn't. How cowardly that you want to maintain your bigoted beliefs, but not be called out or own up to them.
Normal: Conforming to a standard, usual, typical, expected.
Gay people are typical, you can expect them, and they're usual. Besides their sex lives, how are they NOT normal? And as I said, their sex lives are none of your business and yours isn't normal either, I'm willing to bet.
See, people like you are much more insidious. You cloak yourself better then those who scream about sleeping animals and marrying toasters. Your message of hate is much more subtle, so as to creep into minds better. Well, no one's buying it. You're as bad as Bruteforce, when it comes to your prejudice.
What people do in their bedrooms is no one's business but their own. Many heterosexuals practice the same behavior as gay people. It's not what goes on in the bedroom that is the issue, it's the choice of who they choose to do it with. Gays deserve the right to live their life without any fear of intimidation or harassment. They deserve all the benefits that heterosexuals are entitled to. And our country has come a very long way over the past few decades making this possible. But as Sarah posted above, normal is conforming to a standard, usual, typical, expected. When 10 % of the population is gay, this is not standard, usual, typical or expected. It is not normal when 90% of heterosexual behavior is the norm. I don't understand why you are considered a bigot if you think this way. The definition of a bigot is: One fanatically devoted to one's own group,religion,race, or politics and intolerant of those who differ. The key word here is intolerant. If you bash people for being gay, that is intolerant. If you wish to deny them the same rights as heterosexuals, that is intolerant. But if you believe that it is not normal behavior, it is not intolerant. If you believe gay behavior is normal, that is your right to believe so. If you do not believe it is normal, you also have that right to believe so. I don't see how either belief is hateful.
Rational,
This is why it's a problem. What, besides their sex lives, makes homosexuals "not normal"??? If we call them not normal, we're doing so and defining them merely by their sex lives, when straight people engage in the same behavior. They're doctors, lawyers, teachers, construction workers. They go to church. They play sports. They're normal in every way. They're humans. And they've been around as long as straight people.
Deviating from a norm in one aspect of your life, does not make you "not normal". We all deviate from norms in some way. I have blue eyes, that's not "normal", as most people don't. But I'm guessing Dan wouldn't go out of his way to post publically about how people with blue eyes are not normal.
The term you're looking for is "common".
Whether one is sexually active is not the issue. A man dating another man or a woman dating another woman is not the norm. Blue eyes are normal because it is one of the many colors that people have. Orange would not be normal. Being born with stumps at birth instead of arms is not normal. Does that make the person any less human than those born with arms? No. But it still not normal. Again, I have nothing against gay people, they are who they are. But my belief that their behavior is not normal behavior is not a belief of hatred. Same as your belief that it is normal behavior is not one of hatred. It only becomes hatred or bigoted when you are intolerant of other's beliefs.
And dating someone of the same sex is one of the many ways humans attach to each other. We can expect that people will date people of the same sex. It's typical, we see it all the time and it's been there since the dawn of time. It just isn't common.
Yes it is normal. It's typical, it's happened since the beginning of time. We can expect that at some point, children will be born like that. There's nothing shocking, tragic maybe, but not shocking about it. It just doesn't happen a lot, so it isn't common.
Homosexuality is a NORMAL variant of human sexuality.
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/04/itpi.aspx
You may be comfortable incorrectly labeling innocent people with a stigmatic word that drives prejudice, but I however, am not.
fbdr.org/2005/resources/glossary.asp
You say that "Homosexuality is a NORMAL variant of human sexuality".
You then state that (Normal variant) a minor anomaly that occurs in approximately 4% or more of the population.
According to Webster's dictionary an anomaly is 1. a departure from the normal form,order or rule. 2. Something irregular or abnormal. Abnormal is listed as "not normal, irregular".
If it makes you feel better calling this behavior uncommon, go right ahead and do so. I have no problem with it. But if you think calling it normal will lead to acceptance by the majority of society, I think you are wrong. Many people are ignorant over gay behavior and no matter how you label it, sadly, I don't think it will change their views.
As does the American Psychological Association.
Except that I'm using SCIENCE. As in the scientific definition. So you tell me, if science defines a normal variant as a minor anomaly, how did SCIENCE get it wrong. By your very opinion, you're saying science contradicts itself. How can they call something normal and not normal at the same time? You're taking the word "anomaly" out of the context of its scientific definition.
Hmmm, who's definition should I go with?
Which ever one makes you feel better.
Or which ever one is correct. I noticed you didn't answer my question...
So you tell me, if science defines a normal variant as a minor anomaly, how did SCIENCE get it wrong? By your very opinion, you're saying science contradicts itself. How can they call something normal and not normal at the same time?
So science takes precedent over the dictionary? Science can all it whatever it wishes to call it but the definitions of the words do not change. According to your statements, the definition by science does contradict itself.
You didn't answer my question again. You said an "anomaly" is an abnormaility, so please answer...
So you tell me, if science defines a normal variant as a minor anomaly, how did SCIENCE get it wrong. By your very opinion, you're saying science contradicts itself. How can they call something normal and not normal at the same time?
Well there you have it people, RationalRandy should be believed over science, as he is correct and science is wrong. And you screwed up again. It isn't MY definition, it's SCIENCES.
You're the one who quoted science as saying that homosexuality is a normal variant of human sexual orientation. You then go on to define normal variant as a minor anomaly. These are your words or science's words that are contradicting, not mine. I'm pointing out the definitions of the words you used. This is not Rational Randy's definitions, there from the Webster dictionary. And scientific theories have always been considered to be "works in progress". Many scientific theories continually get revised. For example, we base our current evolutionary theory of when humans diverged from apes on the fossil record. But every time a new fossil is found the date gets pushed back. In 1935, lobotomies were the mainstream procedure and remained that way for almost two decades. Homosexuality was thought to be a psychiatric disorder for many years. Science changed it's findings later on. So it's not etched in stone. The definition of words however remain pretty constant over the years.
But Rational, you still haven't answered my question.
Science defines "normal variant" as that. So how did they get it wrong?
So you tell me, if science defines a normal variant as a minor anomaly, how did SCIENCE get it wrong. By your very opinion, you're saying science contradicts itself. How can they call something normal and not normal at the same time? Where did they go wrong? How is this wrong then?
How about his, it's just a simple yes/no. Does science and the APA define homosexuality as a normal variant?
According to you, science and the APA defines it as a normal variant. Why don't you contact the APA and ask them to clarify? After all, it's their wording. I'm just defining the words they are using. If there's a contradiction from the words they are using, that's their issue, not mine. I cannot speak for others, they must speak for themselves. I can only decipher the words I am reading.
Equal rights and justice win the day! Sad that it took a threat of legal action for this to be made right, but good prevailed in the end.
It seems that the school should just set a price per attendee. Why penalize those without dates anyway?
Bob,
"Sad that it took a threat of legal action for this to be made right"
It is amazing, though, how much can be accomplished by just the threat of a law suit. Actually, though, I thought this issue of a gay boy taking his male date to the prom had already been settled by Aaron Fricke back in the late 1970's or early 1980's. He also wanted to take his boyfriend to the prom, but they wouldn't let him so he sued and won. He later wrote a book about it called Confessions of a Rock Lobster: A Story About Growing Up Gay in which he said, "The simple, obvious thing would have been to go to the senior prom with a girl. But that would have been a lie -- a lie to myself, to the girl, and to all the other students. What I wanted was to take a male date. But as Paul Guilbert had shown the year before when he attempted to take another man to the prom, such honesty is not always easy." It looks like they have to keep re-fighting the same old battles.
what the f*&^ happened to our country. What the heck happened to shame. The more progressive we become, the more things that used to be considered deviant become normal. There are certain acts that i will never come to grips with. How the psyciatric profession diagnosis those who want a sex change as having a disorder. Yes, correct, a disorder. However, how do you rectify the hypocratic oath and perform an operation that goes against nature. How do they sleep at night?. How do abortion doctors sleep at night?. How have we become so cavilier about the moral degradation of our society, all pushed thru as enlightened, progressive ideas. There is a lot to say about traditions, sadly, so much acceptance of the twisted and abnormal lifestyle will soon yield a society that makes normal, heterosexual, couples a thing of oddity. Where is the sense of identity. Why are so many people open to tossing away their cultural identities for the magic "Melting Pot".
Dom,
"the more things that used to be considered deviant become normal."
Maybe that's because they never should have been considered deviant to begin with. Whether we are progressing or degenerating depends on your point of view.
Dom-462174
So I guess that appendectomy is out, throw the glasses away. If you need heart surgery I assume you will be declining, after all they all go against nature.
As for traditions we traditionally lived in mud huts and rape was accepted. I for one am glad that traditions change and we go against nature by using electricity and taking medication.
Your note reminds me of that song "Anything Goes" :
In olden days a glimpse of stocking
Was looked on as something shocking,
But now, God knows,
Anything Goes.
You have a point. Maybe we will eventually progress to the point that rape is not considered deviant. Then I can screw any woman I want at any time. Or bestiality. Do you realize that there are countless folks in the world who were born with bestiality orientation? Why don't they have a voice? Where are their rights? Don't you agree if we are going to be fair we should have equal rights for all?
Like inter-racial marriage and letting blacks and women vote?
Mr. Steady,
"Do you realize that there are countless folks in the world who were born with bestiality orientation?"
No. I didn't know that. Are you one of them? Are you advocating bestiality rights? Is that your agenda? Just wondering...
At the end of your diatribe, you demand equal rights "for all"? But, how can rape be equal if one of the participants is being forced? The same goes for bestiality ... unless you can prove that the animal has given informed consent?
What if I am one of them (I'm not, trust me) Mickey? Why the hell are you so selfish that you think one form of behavior should be allowed and considered appropriate while another is not? After all, the definition of deviant, according to you, is relevant. Furthermore, is someone is born gay, who are you to say someone can't be born with bestiality orientation?
Barry
I'm not the one demanding equal rights for all. It's you gay supporters that are. Obviously, you don't understand sarcasm.
Can you prove that an animal doesn't receive pleasure from sex with a human?
Mr. Steady,
"Why the hell are you so selfish that you think one form of behavior should be allowed and considered appropriate while another is not?"
Oh! Pardon me! My mistake. I thought that was what you were advocating, i.e. that heterosexual behavior should be allowed, but homosexual behavior should not.
You didn't think anything of the sort. But you can't answer the question can you? If someone is born homosexual, as you say, then scientifically you can not absolutely claim that one can't be born with bestiality orientation. Matter of fact, there was an article on NBC a couple of weeks ago that a man was protesting because he thinks he should be legally allowed to have sex with an animal. So why is that considered deviant? My whole point is that YOU are the one claiming deviant is relevant. But, it's really not is it? You just can't bring yourself to say that bestiality isn't deviant, can you? Are you a beastialitophobic?
Mr. Steady,
"If someone is born homosexual, as you say, then scientifically you can not absolutely claim that one can't be born with bestiality orientation."
I never said that one could not be born with an orientation toward bestiality. I wouldn't know. It has never been a major concern of mine one way or the other. My preference is for humans. You're the one who keeps pushing bestiality. I suppose, though, that if you were born that way, it would be natural for you.
Finally, adult decisions. Wise decisions. Excellent investigation that the handbook rules were written about how groups are to pay, not about their orientation. (They were people of their time and place, writing in words that worked for them. It wasn't about bigotry!)
Best wishes to all. If we can just keep our heads clear on more realities, then life will improve for all. Enjoy the prom!
BTW, please don't feed the trolls. This subject brings them out of the woodwork, and it's a pointless enterprise to respond to them. They truly know how to negatively escalate situations, and it's their exercise in mental masturbation. Just ignore them. Actually, under the little exclamation mark in the corner of the troll's statement, you can pull down a screen that says what you think or want about them. Click your choice(s).
Every time i see your posts you are going on about bestiality. Is there something you are trying to say there? Feeling left out because gay people are becoming accepted and you still can't have animals?
OMG I was thinking the same thing about Mr.Steady....he wants to "go steady" with his pet!!
So apparently you're not in favor of equal rights for all. Care to specify what other people you don't want to have equal rights.
Another one who doesn't understand the concept of informed consent.
a man and his goat...billy likes it...
Homophobes seemed obsessed with bestiality. There seems to be a correlation (or is it a causation?). It would be a fascinating topic for a PhD thesis.
Good for you Stacy!
Have a great time at your prom! You deserve it.
It only gets better!
YUCK!!!
Disgusting!!!
And it only "...gets better for the Believers..." the rest of the unbelievers go to "HELL!"
Read the Book, this is NOT hate, just the TRUTH!
no wonder people kill children, their MINDS aren't right!!!!
I did read the book, Jesus says love thy neighbor as thy self and love God. People may argue with the second part, not believing in God and all, that's fine, and their right, but the first sounds like really good advice.
Also it says, judge not lest you be judged. Just saying.
how right you are!but the dems libs also love to kill babys.
Jerry it IS hate and what you are saying is NOT truth. Jesus doesn't mention homosexuality ANYWHERE. However, he speaks at length about judging, lying, and hypocrisy. Somewhere I read, "Do not judge or you too will be judge." (Matthew 7:1). I'm pretty sure you are included in this. Your remarks are NOT Christ-like. They are however, VERY Pharisee-like.
Do you mean that when God told them to invade the cities and kill every last man woman and child, that was God's everlasting Love? Or when he told Moses that the man who was gathering firewood on the sabbath needed to be stoned to death, that was love too, right? And the laws about how to handle your slaves, love? Ok. Sure. Then how about HIS commandment that women never speak in church, people must never mix wool and linen, they should only wear one or the other, and the meat burnt upon the alter must be WELL SALTED. Oh, and if you accidentally see your father naked, you must be banished. Yup, I can just feel the love there.
Maybe you should actually READ that book before you try to throw it at others.
only thing disgusting on here are your comments...please move to Iran where RELIGION RULES dude....I hear it's very nice this time of year there!!!
I love it, all the "demonic possessed people" come out!
1. "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things(I Cor. 2:15)..."
2. God burned up Sodom and Gomorrah.
3. God cut out the cancer, and one day he is going to burn the TRASH!
4. Sorry people, but sometimes the TRUTH hurts.
5. He is God, He calls the shots, You are the clay, He is the Potter(Jer. 18:6).
This country is not ruled by any god. Not the christian god, the muslim god, not the roman gods.
If any of these gods called the shots, they would show up in person, not hide behind insane people.
Iran is calling you!!!
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
People take verses out of the bible....you can be judged, but before you judge someone else, you must examine yourself.
What gets better? Please enlighten me.....you people are just sick.
So you're advocating death to all infidels. ("Infidel " meaning everyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do.)
God burned up because they were trying to rape angels. Not because they were gay. What's worse, raping angels, or being gay? If you cant answer this question, there is something seriously wrong with you.
It also forbids man from laying with another man, Dantos.
Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus contain the following verses:
If you're going to pretend you know what's in the Bible, then actually read the whole book.
I don't even believe in God and I've taken the time to read the Bible. Why? Because I don't want to sound like an idiot when I'm discussing Christianity like 90% of the people on here - you included.
Jerry, why are you trying to force everyone to believe as you do, thus ensuring that you have to deal with them in heaven? Let them go to hell, so you don't have to deal with them for eternity.
I don't believe in hell, just FYI. I don't understand why the religious want to make everyone avoid hell, instead of just letting them be....
Carryingconcealed, allegedly God set in stone his law of 'Thou shalt not kill'. So which is it?
Thou shalt not kill.
OR
Thou shalt not kill, except when I find it to be convenient and cannot muster the ability to do it myself, therefore I will command someone else to do my bidding?
Leviticus also says not to eat shellfish, and for women to live apart from the main home during their periods. I'd like to have one single person tell me that they adhere to these as well.
@EvenSteven
Leviticus is a joke, and people only trot it out to support their bigotry against homosexuality.
Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)
If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10).
If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)
Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)
People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)
If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)
Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)
Chiming in.
I don't think that them fighting for their rights is a disgrace. Having rights is an inherent thing that all human being have and they shouldn't be shooed under the rug just because some silly little line in something that has been rewritten numerous time says that it's "immoral" or whatever cockamamy it spews forth. And, anyway, it was still, at the base of it, written by people, not by some higher being.
And, anyway, the whole bible (old and new testament) is chock full of contradictions. It doesn't really matter if you've read it, if you can't go back and figure out that most, if not all of the bible really only held context well back in the early time, then foo to you.
And if you're wondering about all of the contradictions, here you are:
@TamL
A whole bunch of people have made that same point in uncountable comments on this topic, and the response from the "faithful" is always to ignore it.
I used to quote it, but it's like they're sticking their fingers in their ears and saying, "La la la I can't hear you."
The thing about quoting the Christian Bible is that I'm not a Christian, and I don't believe in its book. Not saying that many good and decent things aren't written in it, I just don't believe in its religious viewpoint. I could quote Moby Dick, say it was my religion, and demand that everyone else worship a great white whale or they will be damned. What's good for one is good for the other.
I'm happy if Christians want to have their religion and book. It's just not mine, therefore, please don't use it to define me. I don't require everyone to carry a harpoon, nor spend a great deal of time on boats; so please don't require me to wear a skirt, sell my kids, or stone someone.
BTW, I'm a straight grandma pushing 60. I don't care if some is straight, gay, bi, black, white, Christian, Buddhist, etc. As long as they live their lives (and not enslave others to their beliefs), I'm good with them. Otherwise, they need to get a grip on their own identity, and let others have theirs.
Best wishes to all the folks who attend their proms. Have a wonderful time.
The only rule I'm making for them? Don't drink and drive. Call someone for a ride, if the need arises. Don't you wish this whole article was more about "rules" like this?
Love it zapper45701 and I'm a straight married woman pushing 50 who feels the EXACT same way:)
Chris from cincy: Your point's not without merit, and as I said, I don't believe in what the Bible says anyway.
However, if I believed in an afterlife and wanted to go North versus South, I don't think I would ignore that the word of God (Bible) appears to be fairly clear that homosexuality is unacceptable behavior.
If God's real I'm guessing he'd overlook shellfish, but gay sex I'm not so sure.
If your imaginary friend is real it sounds like he's a really ignorant bigot who's strangely obsessed with the private sex lives of consenting adults.
Strange too that he hates figs and gays but says that rape, incest and slavery are OK. Sounds like he's a moral pygmy.
Oh NO!
Now all the Christians in that town have to get divorced.
I'll do you one better Sam. It will be my hope that somebody kicks the s$%t out of them both. Sick, slimey disgusting little fags.
Steve, looks like you'll be banned, so sorry.
why should steve be banned?
Steve: you know what they say about homophobes, dontcha?
Just being the devils advocate, but why should steve be banned? This article mentions free speech, and everyone is so excited about that. I would think you might urge people like steve to speak up regarding their feelings, right?
Some think that gays are gross, some think that steve is gross, but we all have the right to speak our mind even when if differs from yours.
Well using the word he did to describe gay people, I would expect to be banned if I used it or other such words.
Why will he be banned? Mainly because he is openly violating the terms of service of the website by using hate slurs and advocating violence against people. It isn't an issue of "free speech", because nbcnews has no legal obligation to give him a platform for his speech, and he agreed to the ToS that he just violated when he submitted his comment. Your right to speak does not mean you have a right to speak in any venue in any manner without being kicked out of the venue by the moderators (the same way you can't use freedom of speech to keep from being kicked out of a business meeting because you keep shouting slurs at other attendees)
Sounds like Steve is rather psychologically unstable and insecure in his own sexual orientation.
That or Steve knows a Gay guy who got the job Steve got turned down for,or a Gay guy who is great looking and has everything going for him that Steve doesn't have,or Steve is in such bad shape that he's that agitated simply because Stacy Dawson has a date for the prom and Steve doesn't.
Wishing for harm to come to a person or persons, bad form, and not allowed.
inthemiddle, Steve should be banned because "freedom of speech" applies to GOVERNMENTAL censorship. His hate speech has violated the terms of use, which he agreed to by posting here. You have the right to say whatever you like, but Newsvine (or anyone else for that matter) does not have to give you a platform to say it. He can go make his own website and say whatever hateful, homophobic BS he wants.
"Now all the Christians in that town have to get divorced" Is this what homosexuals think Christians do when they find out someone in their community is gay? You people just keep getting stranger.
Actually that's what you homophobic nutballs keep claiming, that treating gays equally under the law somehow threatens your rights and your marriages.
It's totally bizarre and irrational, but that's the argument you guys frequently make.
More than likely Steve is secretly gay himself and by spewing a lot of toxic hatred and venom at gay people he (a) hopes to deflect suspicion from him, and (b) he feels this toward himself for his own homosexual feelings and projects them outward in order to avoid the pain of having to deal with them internally.
Actually, you don't have a right to say anything you want. (This by the way, is a great discussion to have with those who want no limitations on their second amendment rights.) You can't yell "Fire" in a crowded movie theatre. You can't commit fraud or slander with your words. You can't use what the Supreme Court refers to as "fighting words." You can't scream at the top of your lungs outside your neighbor's house at 3AM for 45 minutes. There are many limitations on free speech, the press, assembly, redress and religion. And who knows where those "five freedoms" come from? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Hey, now I'm not defending steve's words at all. They are not acceptable in any mature discussion, but people say worse to and about Christians (just one example) on here all the time and they are allowed to continue. Why the double standard? There is a very considerate Christian in a string below that has been blasted after making simple statements that are in no way inflammatory. Why is it acceptable that they be attacked, yet homosexuals are protected?
Because libs only want free speech to apply to things they believe and want. And Im on the libby side on this matter btw.
Wrong MrBurns. Freedom of speech applies to medium that you control. If someone, such as newsvine, sets terms of service that you violate, then you are beholden to the rules. Feel free to start your own blog so you are not beholden to the TOS that you agreed to.
Im not just talking about newsvine Chris. Libs have tried to stiffle speech that doesnt agree with them for decades. Press too. There is a reason libertarians (such as myself) almost always go republican. Libs are horrible on most of the Bill of Rights.
I am socially liberal, and I will say that I don't support the stifling of free speech. I believe you have the right to free speech, but that does not give you the right to use it anywhere you want, and it does not protect you from the repercussions of your speech. As pointed out before, Steve's comments violated the Newsvine TOS. Their site, their rules. If you want freedom to say anything you want, then go get your own place to say it. :-/
Chris, then the TOS should be applied equally, and not just in favor of the liberal perspective. It's not a legal issue, it a common sense issue.
If you hate opposing viewpoints, why come to this news vine. That is because Fox News does not allow those to comment or speak their minds. This is a great forum for many sides (yes there are more viewpoints then just Demo and Repub). If you didn't think so, you wouldn't be here. So think about that the next time you complain about this forum or the people on it. NBC news allows you to bash it and liberals. You only get banned if you say something inflammatory or if enough people don't like what you have to say.
I should correct my last sentence. You only get banned for saying something inflamatory. Your comments get collapsed if enough folks disagree. I think collapsing has the opposite effect. It makes me want to read it more :)
I agree with you, Dan. I often find that I agree with the collapsed comment. I don't think collapsing does what the owners of the site think it was supposed to do.
And this is why G.W. Bush always had "public protest zones" available whenever he gave speeches. of course these zones were always located several blocks from where he was giving the speech, and were surrounded by chainlink fences. And had Secret Service agants stationed at the entrances.
I love how some people wave around the freedom of speech like it's an end all for their inability to speak respectfully. Yes, you have every right to show the world what a jerk you are, you have the right to say what you believe in...that does NOT mean that you won't be punished for it if you cross a line. Saying your going to kill the President is enacting your freedom of speech but going to jail will be the repercussion for it. Likewise when you sign an agreement on a forum or site, you are bound by their terms and conditions. You may 'say' all you want but if you don't abide by their rules you will be punished for it.
Rant on that is over.
Good for the kid, I'm glad he got what he wanted and I hope he has a lovely time.
here we go , let the show begin
let them prance around and make sure all people know they are fags.
so sad for you.....Boo Freaking Hoo....you can't dance.....
A show it is. A sick, twisted circus of sexual deviancy thrust on the rest of society. How long before our society looks like the set of "Mad Max"?
It amazes me how the defenders of "Man on Man Sodomy" can defend this nasty, sick, smelly deviant lifestyle as a civil right! Doesn't get much more absurd and sickening than that.
Who on earth, or what kind of a parent explains to thier kids that sticking their wee wee in a nasty, filthy, stinking, the nastiest bacteria on earth laden rectum and colon of another man is "OK"?
If the reality of what I just described sounds too over the top for you then YOU GET IT. Because the human anus and colon was not in any way, form or fashion created for SEX. It is the part of the human body to expel the TRASH and FILTH of the human body. And anyone that's TURNED ON by this filthy, sickening act is what NORMAL people call a "Sexual Deviant"
Its amazing reading how defenders of this perversion say that "Who are heterosexual's to think they are telling others what is moral and not moral"?
Anyone who thinks that being attracted to the human anus and colon and all the nasty, stinking filth that comes out of it and wants to have sex with it is "MORAL" and "Nomral"? VS. a heterosexual who is attracted to the human organs that GOD put into the human body for pro creation and the pleasure of married men and women.
I'm not saying that Gays need to be treated badly because the of the mutation in the genes that choose what sex they are attracted to. But they do NOT have the right to display their "CONDITION" which is "REPULSIVE" to 9 out of 10 people on earth like its "NORMAL!" and try and legislate and FORCE everyone else to accept it! ITS NOT NORMAL!! And you will NEVER get us to acknowledge that this deviant lifestyle as NORMAL!
Carry on with your life and STAY THE HELL OUT OF MINE!
Wow. There is certainly a LOT of hatred on display here. When hate fills the heart, it shrivels and dies, leaving only the anger and hate dwelling inside. What a waste of a human heart. That vessel of love that connects us to God. For God is Love, not Hate. Jesus Forgave and accepted. Was His example wasted?
That's great that they have such a sense of community and can all come together. Things sure have changed since I was a teen a decade ago. I went to my female dates prom, and we stood in the back of the room and subtly held hands, while all the heterosexual couples made out and grinded on each other on the dance floor, and we got told to stop and asked to leave by some school employee. Good to see people are becoming more live and let live.
So what is your problem? You should have been asked to leave.
Why? Because they held hands? Why should heterosexual partners be given free range to hump each other at a school event but homosexual couples kicked out because they hold hands (an action so benign that you'll see it anywhere, by virtually anyone, anyday)
The plumming doesn,t even fit!
Sick!!!!
So, all love you experience is purely based on the physical? You could never love a woman who had no vagina?
ha ha ha..how do YOU even know.....OMG....enjoy your hand buddy!!!
Jerry, No worries, yours seems to fit in your mouth just fine!
What does plumbing have to do with the Prom? Why can a person not go to the prom with their same sex friend from another school? Why does sexuality have to be the issue at all! It's not like it was a mass wedding, for Christ's sake!
Jerry, what is plumming?
Adults that can't spell at a 3rd grade level should be punished, perhaps by throwing rotting fruit at them. We could call it plumming.
Jerry, I don't like brussel sprouts. Should we ban brussel sprouts, or should I just eat broccoli instead?
Plumbing has to do with rights in what way? Its probably harder for two obese people to have sex than gay people, yet we dont ban that. And I have found that way more disgusting. Doesnt mean Im going to torment or abuse them for being different than my self and not harming anyone.
No plumes, no plums, no service.
A show it is. A sick, twisted circus of sexual deviancy thrust on the rest of society. How long before our society looks like the set of "Mad Max"?
It amazes me how the defenders of "Man on Man Sodomy" can defend this nasty, sick, smelly deviant lifestyle as a civil right! Doesn't get much more absurd and sickening than that.
Who on earth, or what kind of a parent explains to thier kids that sticking their wee wee in a nasty, filthy, stinking, the nastiest bacteria on earth laden rectum and colon of another man is "OK"?
If the reality of what I just described sounds too over the top for you then YOU GET IT. Because the human anus and colon was not in any way, form or fashion created for SEX. It is the part of the human body to expel the TRASH and FILTH of the human body. And anyone that's TURNED ON by this filthy, sickening act is what NORMAL people call a "Sexual Deviant"
Its amazing reading how defenders of this perversion say that "Who are heterosexual's to think they are telling others what is moral and not moral"?
Anyone who thinks that being attracted to the human anus and colon and all the nasty, stinking filth that comes out of it and wants to have sex with it is "MORAL" and "Normal"? VS. a heterosexual who is attracted to the human organs that GOD put into the human body for pro creation and the pleasure of married men and women.
I'm not saying that Gays need to be treated badly because the of the mutation in the genes that choose what sex they are attracted to. But they do NOT have the right to display their "CONDITION" which is "REPULSIVE" to 9 out of 10 people on earth like its "NORMAL!" and try and legislate and FORCE everyone else to accept it! ITS NOT NORMAL!! And you will NEVER get us to acknowledge that this deviant lifestyle as NORMAL!
Carry on with your life and STAY THE HELL OUT OF MINE!
Yawn........here we go again!
It's 2013. It's time for everyone to realize that there are gay people in the world and that they have rights, too.
Yeah, they haves rights all right. The right to fall in a 100 ft hole and stay there.
Ideally, on top of you.
Hard.
Steve please crawl back into the hole u came out of and stay there!!!
yes they have rights as well as responsibilities also. have you ever been to san fransicko? gays are just trying to push that their deviant behavior is normal which it isnt. should he be ridiculed no he shouldnt.
Why is it that a comment opposed to homesexuality is collapsed while the board bashes Christian beliefs?
The gay community can believe and do what they want- but they hate the Bible and Christians who disagree with their lifestyle. So how are they any different? Why aren't those posts collpased?
What's sick is with all this freedom of speech and human rights, you all will be voting in favor of child pornography and will make pedophilia legal.... after all, if a 12 year old boy or girl wants to meet people on the internet or make movies of themselves...who are you to say they can't? Freedom of speech- freedom of expression- human rights.....
Remove God's word- and this is what comes next. You all are lawless...and lawlessness you will have.
God is good- and He is giving you all the desire of your heart. Endulge, endulge, endulge.... but I pray you will one day repent before it is too late.
When this country starts killing off Christians in a few years, then our country can sink to the lowest of any country in the history of the world. You all want it- you have got it coming.
God help the few who believe and trust in Christ.
TheWeepingDad,
You realize that pedophilia was never mentioned in the Bible, nor is being a pedophile a crime. Child rape and pornography are, but being sexually attracted to something is not a crime. And acting on homosexuality harms no one. Acting on pedophilia harms children. That is the difference.
Because no one wants to defend a Christian? Do you realize that the readers collapse the comments? So all you have to do is get your fellow bigoted "christians" to learn to read then they can collapse all they want.
By the way, God and I got it on last night, it was dirty. That god is one sick pervert!
The comments that are being collapsed have nothing to do with Christian beliefs, but because they are spouting hatred and promoting violence against other human beings. You have the right to believe what ever you want, I would defend your right to believe what you want. You do not have the right to push your beliefs on to me or anyone else. If you don't want to be gay then don't be, no one is making you.
Gods word has nothing to do with our laws.
Bob Freebird,
You are one sick something.
You certainly are no man. You are lost.
That comment will haunt you forever, from the moment you breath your last.
I actually have compassion on you.
Good luck.
@TheWeeping Dad
There are many gays/lesbians who are as Christian as you are. Or probably not, since you obviously believe that only those who believe exactly as you do are "true" Christians.
You apparently don't believe in freedom of speech or human rights. You seem convinced that it is your "Christian duty" to set everyone on the right moral course, that course being determined by you.
I know you are incapable of accepting the fact that it is quite possible to lead an ethical life without believing in a God. Tell me, who is the better person, one who does the right think because of the fear of eternal punishment, or one who does the right thing simply because it is the right thing?
This borders on paranoia. And even if it were true, aren't you more than willing to be a martyr in the name of God? Don't you have the courage of your convictions?
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."
In any case, if there is a God he/she will be the one doing the judging; not you.
Certainly doesn't seem like it, based on your hypocritical statements above.
WeepingDad:
YOU are the one that's sick, I'm afraid. Standing up for a Book that promotes Incest and Drunkenness (Lot and his Daughters); Paedophilia (being able to sell your children to the Highest Bidder... Leviticus); Stoning your Children if they don't WANT to be sold (hence, disagreeing with you... (Leviticus))... the List goes on and on, and simply gets worse.
MOST of your Bible (the Old Testament) is full of the most vile, disgusting behavior imaginable... behavior that, if the Police should find out about it today, will earn you a Life Sentence (even if it IS sanctioned by God).
So be it. Our Society and Laws have greatly evolved from the ignorant, greedy, Bronze Age Shepherd-Priests who wrote their own lustful perversities into ancient Hebraic Law (claiming that God wrote them). Even by the time of Christ, these Laws were seen to be Evil, and the Christ proclaimed Himself the New Testament. Yet, you "Whole Bible" nitwits seem to have no power of Discernment between good and evil, and thus get to "Cherry-pick" whatever contradictory, hateful Verses you choose to bolster your inane 'arguments'.
It's not that readers here are "bashing" the Bible... we're simply pointing out the nasty bits that fall afoul of Newsvine's (or any other sane Provider's) TOS. Those bits that you Fundie Sheeple are more than happy to roll out at the drop of a hat.
They dont have have the right to flaunt their love of SODOMY in my face! I dont have to ACCEPT sick, twisted, deviant people.
Actually shovel, if by "flaunt" you mean "exist and attend events like any other couple", then they actually do have a right to "flaunt" it. No one is saying you have to accept anything, you just can't restrict their rights and access based solely on your hatred of them. You are free to continue hating and holding your delusional opinion, you just can't force other people to be restricted and subservient to it
Sovelface,
"They dont have have the right to flaunt their love of SODOMY in my face! I dont have to ACCEPT sick, twisted, deviant people."
No, you don't, and they don't have to accept you, either. What makes you so special?
Next year, Stacy plans on bringing his dog to the prom.
LMAO!!
That is so clever Still Working, I wonder how long it took for you to come up with the nugget of comedy.
That's so sweet of your mom!
I bet Stacy gets her a nice coursage.
Ah, so gay people are legally equivalent to dogs, now?
I would love to have brought my dog with me. I love my Molly. (Not in that way sickos, lol).
Exactly. And I suppose that's his civil right too huh? That proves the point. At what point do we draw the line on SEXUAL DEVIANCY!?
If you can sodomize another man, why not your pet!? You love each other right? SAME DAM PRINCIPLE!
Shovel, does the phrase "legal consent" mean anything to you?. It is not even a remotely similar principle, as evident to anyone who has had even basic education in matters of law and ethics.
Here we go again and why do these gay people feel a need to tell everyone they are gay I mean who cares why does everyone have to know. I just don't get it I mean if your gay that's your choice but what business is it of ours. My god what is this world coming to. It's just ridiculous and stupid.
Rosie, what is wrong with him taking his partner to the prom, everyone else is. Also being gay is hardly a choice.
I mean why do straight people have to tell everyone they are straight by taking someone of the opposite sex to the prom, or getting married publicly. . . . .see it could be said to go both ways.
I still don't get it I don't see a need to tell anyone hey i'm straight why should i that's none of nobodys business. It's funny how they allow gays in the school but took out prayer. Strange sign of the times huh?
what is there to get? They don't tell everyone they are gay. they just want to be treated the same way as straight people. I don't get you?
Before you start throwing your hate comments and intolerance remarks let's make one thing clear. I don't hate homosexuals, I do hate the sin. 2nd tolerance and acceptance are not one and the same. I tolerate many things that I don'like or agree with. That does not mean I have to accept them as ok.
Don't even compare straights with gays. No one is born Gay. There is no scientific proof to support that. It is not genetic or identical twins would all be either both straight or both gay. Homosexuality is immoral and a sin. This is no different than a student taking someone Else's wife or husband to the prom, their cousin, or their pet dog. It is all sin and all immoral.
Not at all Rosie, you don't need to tell anyone people assume you are, or work it out if you happen to be with your husband (if you happen to be married). In away he had not choice he just wanted to take his partner to the prom, I would say he was forced into the situation by school policy.
Also I would re-read your final comment "allow gays into the school", a rather sinister comment. Ill let it pass.
Hardly strange times taking prayer out of school, i believe that comes under separation of church and state however students can organize prayer groups and clubs, so prayer is not out of the school as such, just mandatory prayer in class.
better watch it tether these folks here can have you collapsed or accuse you of using hate speech!
Thinking gay is not a choice, but acting gay is. For example, I can think I want some meth, but I'm only a drug user if I act on wanting meth. I chose not to because it's bad for me. It's all about what a person does with their thoughts, and less that the thoughts exist in the first place. I have a lot of thoughts that I should not act on. Does that make me each and every one of those thoughts? No.
In other words: "I don't hate fags, it's my imaginary friend in the sky who hates fags."
Tether
Your handle should be Un-Tethered seeing as how you are floating away from reality.
How could you know that unless you were gay yourself?
No, what immoral and a sin is your willingness to say stupid @!$%# like that publicly, indicating you have no self-respect at all.
Tether
Interesting how do you know people are not born gay, hard to say unless you have experience of some sort of choice your self. Scientifically it is accepted that people are born straight or gay, that is not in dispute it is what influence genes and nature have on sexuality.
Also your twin comments show a complete misunderstanding and ignorance of how gene's function.
Please tell us Tether at what point in YOUR miserable life did YOU decide to be straight???
I'm mean if it's a choice then YOU had a choice as well....RIGHT!!!
and YOU need serious help if you think for one minute that a meth addiction is even remotely related to sexual orientation.....SHEESH.....seriously what sewer do you all crawl out from on here!!!
Krestov, you reference science. I'll play along. What scientific means to an end does homosexuality meet?
I find humor in Tethers rational and polite explanation of their thoughts, and the nasty attacks they are getting in response. It is possible to love someone, and not agree with what they do. That is all Tether was saying. To disagree with homosexuality is not to hate gays. I would think such intelligent people would understand the concept.
queenie, go be nasty to someone else, you can't shake me.
And yes, the process from thought, to desire, to acceptance, to action is exactly the same for all human behaviors. You either see it through, or change it's path. Your choice.
Have you noticed that I have not provided my stance on homosexuality being right or wrong? I have only pointed out some alternate options for viewing the subject. You might be surprised, if you were willing to listen, to what my thoughts on the subject are. But, alas, all you can do is attack.
Even the APA (No religous organization) says that sexual orientation is a combination of genetic and environmental factors. They have debunked the notion that people are born gay. Some people may be more pre-disposed to that orientation from birth, but there are alot of environmental factors, including choice. If you begin as a child with a set of core values that tells you that homosexuality is wrong, its highly unlikely you are going to end up that way. These days, however, the GLBT folks are indoctrinating our children that its "Ok to be Gay", and therefore many more children are going that way. Its an insidious plot.
in the middle-2260511....ha ha ha....u so hurt my feelings....if I cared.....LMAO!!!
so tell me when did YOU DECIDE to be straight genius....who cares what your stance is BUT you!!!
Tether, you need to go and actually TALK to someone who is gay. Gay people ARE born gay. There IS a physical difference in the brain. That was proven decades ago.
Ask any gay person on the planet when they decided to be gay, and they will laugh at you. There is not a choice. Just as I, at a tender young age, had my first crush on a girl, a gay guy would have had that first crush on a BOY. That's when the confusion starts, because people like you jump around like you can do no wrong and tell them they are sinners and going to hell.
UM WHAT???
There must have been a sale on Reynolds Aluminum Foil at the GIANT today......stop spouting BS on here...no one is BUYING!!!
queenie, I decided my sexuality, I would guess, when I pursued my first. I liked them, I made a decision to pursue them and the relationship, and that has defined my sexuality ever since.
FYI, unlike you, I do not aim to hurt others feelings, so it's not like you win....or whatever you are trying to do.
Oh Tether,
Christ said, "Ye who have not sinned, throw the first stone". For you or anyone else to judge another human being for sin is Blasphemous and is breaking the laws of Jesus. notice I did not say God because everyone seems to confused the two. God's laws as most people interpret them are Thur Hebrew laws of Abraham and Moses. These laws were written and used to keep the tribes of Israel united so they could self fulfill the destiny of reaching god's promised lands.
You see the problem with "Cherry Picking " Scripture is that the history behind the scripture is lost or misplaced.
Abraham was the Riches man around and "Beloved" of God. The reason this was written? because he paid someone to write it. God did not reach down with a package of BIC ink pens and jot all this down.
Abraham and his brother Lott were at odds because Lott wanted to settle down. The people of the Tribe of Abraham were sheep herders and traveled with the grazing conditions and the weather wherever they pleased. They had a military force that enforced their right to travel freely. So the destruction of Sodom and Gomarrah was truly written, just not correctly written.
Whenever a sedentary people would object to their flocks eating all the grass, they simple attacked and killed the villages. This is history and the nature of the times. The fellows with the biggest sticks won all the cigars.
The same was true for Abraham and his laws. Ever since he built that altar, and proclaimed that there was only one god, he enforced his ideas through blood shed. When he decreed that God gave him some tidbit of information in the form of a Law, it became law. To break a law was a sin and to sin was to die. To go against Abraham was to die.
His people were eventually conquered by Babylon and Assyria and they fled to Egypt where they were enslaved till Moses set out to finish the prophesy of Abraham.
Remember one thing, all of this is JEWISH LAWS of Ancient times. The Romans were the people who saw a benefit to bring those laws to modern times. The Romans saw a way to continue to control the vast Roman territory through the Hebrew laws and as a bonus the system of Religious taxation, and the price of sinners paying for salvation.
Lazarus
Rosie,
They even allow those sinister left-handed people in school and they DON'T MAKE THEM USE THE RIGHT HAND! Horror!
And they even care that there are Jews and Muslims in the school who would rather not have a Christian prayer! What's wrong with those people.
Flat wrong. You've completely misrepresented what the APA said, and you're lying about it. What they've said is that we don't know why any individual has a particular orientation. The only thing they've debunked is your ignorant notion that sexual orientation is any kind of choice.
Sorry Queenie - Heres the quote from the APA website:
Another quote from same webpage (apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx)
there is no gay gene. it is a matter of choice. but the idiots in the state run education system have fooled all the idiots it graduates.
David-2637217
I think if you look it is basically saying sexuality is not a choice but the influences on the innate and instinctive response that is a persons sexuality is as yet unknown, I don't tolerate the misuse of scientific information as some sort of proof that people choose their sexuality, the concept that nature would let sexuality and therefore the reproductive process up to a choice is frankly preposterous.
Just to be clear we have no idea what genes are involved that switch on the growth of adult teeth, but I am pretty sure even though we don't know what the gene is they still come in.
Ok Shrek - so its not a choice, but environmental factors do help to form it, and so a permissive attitude within our schools and families towards homosexuality will help to form more homosexuals. Is something is shunned, more children are less likely to be attracted to it, even though this may not be a conscious choice.
So you'd mandate prayer and ban gays? Find yourself a private school.
Actually, when I was in emenentary school in the 1950's they actually did make us lefties write with out right hands. Now I can't write legibly with either hand.
Um seriously....did u read that before you posted it....u just proved my point!!!
Whatever dude....now please let the adults continue the discussion....seriously NO ONE cares what YOU think!!!
And your proof is...?
Is something is shunned, more children are less likely to be attracted to it, even though this may not be a conscious choice.
Sop this is your solution? More persecution, bullying, and beatings. Or perhaps you would prefer to make homosexuality illegal?
so YOU admit now that it's NOT a choice based on SCIENTIFIC evidence...yet u pull the other BS in your post out your AZZ to fit your own agenda....LOLOL!!!
Tether - you do understand that identical twins are NOT truely identical, right? They have small physical differences at birth and beyond. Let's start with the most obvious - their fingerprints. Now, as for gay siblings, the chance of being gay if your sibling is gay is greater than if you don't have a gay sibling. Guess what-it's even higher if your identical sibling is gay. This is more evidence that biology does indeed play a role. This has even been found true of identical siblings that didn't grow up together.
Please stop telling kids who are being persecuted for their sexual orientation (not preference) that their situation is their fault by calling it choice. It is not choice. What kid would choose to be bullied, picked on and made fun of. Please go read some non-religion-based research on the topic.
Homosexuality should be legal. All individuals, regardless of sexual orientation should be treated with respect, and not be the victims of bullying. However, I think that we can all shun sexual promiscuity with the hopes that our children won't go down that path. That doesn't mean it should be illegal, or that we should be mean to people who are that way.
BTW - Queenie - Can you carry on a rational conversation without condescending comments.
queenie, you won't answer any questions, but continue to hurl attacks. What end does homosexuality meet from a scientific perspective? Can you answer a simple question, please?
I have never met such a mean spirited gay. You are something special.
Tom, please read the numerous comments from above, where specific "non-religious" references were provided. You may not like the facts, but that does not change them. We are all born of free will. What we do with that is our choice.
When did they take prayer out of school? They cant force you to pray anymore, but the three Christian groups at my school were never told not to pray. And they would even announce on the loudspeaker that they are having a prayer meeting if anything bad ever happened (i.e. a student died).
Also, there are thousands of animals with documented cases of homosexuality. Did the gay animals choose to be gay? And while we havent found a gene, we are not perfect on gene mapping. We do know some traits. For example, if a guy has a longer ring finger than pointer, he is more likely straight. If he has a longer pointer, he is more likely gay. This is not 100% accurate, but many different factors tie in to sexuality.
And Queenie, I agree with you, but Ill side with david on something. You are being quite hateful and rude and lessening the impact of your truth.
in the middle-2260511
The question depends on what you mean as scientifically do you mean biologically? I'll give you an example from the animal kingdom.
Well because humans are now outside of what we would call normal Darwinian evolutionary genetics in essence. I have borrowed an example from the chimpanzee community structure.
Males who are exclusively gay tend to carry out more responsibility in security and defense of the community, leaving those in the community more time to look after the young, the biological advantage is more young survive and the community survives.
In chimpanzees exclusively gay sisters help take care of the young of their child baring sister. In this sense she, the gay sister, is ensuring that 25% of the genes she shares with the child survives to be passed on. So in this way she is ensuring the passing on of at least some of her genes and the continuing success of the community.
These examples work best in community based animals and homosexuality is higher in animals that have a complex community based structure.
WTH??? Poor child.....I'll do you one better: what end does heterosexuality meet from a scientific perspective?
I am a straight happily married lady and my hubby and I have NO children.....NICE try on you but an epic failure as usual with HATERS and BTW if you had an ounce of intelligence I could have a meaningful convo with you....but alas u have shown your true colors....just admit that I fight better than you!!
I can answer that question for you, but you won't like the answer. There are studies that show increased rates of homosexuality in humans and animals when there is over population.
u mean like this fool who posted this utter and complete nonsense....another one who doesn't deserve an intelligent response....I feel dumber just having read this rubbish!!
Queenie - If you had any ounce of intelligence you would debate by making solid arguments instead of throwing "fireballs" at anyone who disagrees with you. You are childish, and have the debating skills of a 5th grader.
@the queenie
I have to agree with David-2637217, you really are not adding to the debate. Debate is about being respectful and intelligent, regardless if the opposing side is expressing the same attributes. I would rather you not post than post what you have.
in the middle:
I decided my sexuality, I would guess, when I pursued my first. I liked them, I made a decision to pursue them and the relationship, and that has defined my sexuality ever since.
So you could have gone either way then, correct? Hmm... That's interesting because I can't ever recall deciding that I was heterosexual. It's just what I've always been. I've never had a physical attraction to women so that's why I don't think it was ever anything I had to decide on.
Could be that people who consciously make a choice are bi-sexual. In that case, they must have been born that way, I suppose.
Good to hear you finally admit that fact, given that no credible medical organization supports the nonsense you posted up thread.
Just an FYI, "environmental factors" primarily means things like prenatal hormones rather than genetic or epigenetic.
Which orifice did you pull that nonsense from? The fact that homosexuality has been shunned and repressed by many societies for thousands of years hasn't changed the fact that a certain percentage of the population is gay, all it's done is serve to oppress and harm those people, and cause gay kids to commit suicide. Repressive societies like Iran have just as many gays as enlightened societies like Sweden.
There's no evidence at all that family environment or "shunning" has any influence on sexual orientation.
Really? So you think that it is possible to make a straight kid attracted to the same sex? Why would someone WANT to be gay?
No no, we have already decided that Gayness is a disease. Caused by a virus. The government is working to weaponize it. When Iran suddenly redecorates with pink and mauve, you will know what I am saying is true.
homos have no rights, they are sick people who need help! And to the people that support them, you deserve every bad thing that happens to you!
Another homophobic peophhile and blastphemer.
Lazarus
Served proudly....where exactly have you "served proudly?" Because from that fascist comment you don't have the brains to serve me a Big Mac combo at the local McDonalds.
DSP - CAPT/USNR
last time I checked there is not an amendment in the "beloved" constitution that states that if you happen to be attracted and love the opposit sex, you have no rights. It states that all men are created equal? you served huh?
fat sewer troll rat needs to go back to his hole in the ground!!!
jen-1192917,
All men are not created equal!
some are smart, some are dumb, some are retarded, some have nice brown skin, and some are just pale!
Well, Jen, there's nothing in there preventing child molestation either. Are you suggesting that raping kids is fine too?
Yeah, because consenting adults having sex and child rape are totally the same thing.
Yes it does. Are you saying that children aren't people? Your rights end where mine begin, raping a child would violate that child's right to be free from harm.
Under the law, yes, we are all equal. The law is the set of rules we share, and religious tenets are rules we do not all share. In this case, they law is what matters, since what you believe is not binding on those around you.
When you look at his picture it appears that he's already had his mouth in someone's dark area already!! LMAO
steve/why do you care where his mouth has been? Worry about your own nasty azz mouth.
pssst, the teen is a girl
So, why is it that invariably, with homosexual couples one almost always has very masculine features while the other is very feminine? I am waiting to see your clever response and justification for an answer because you heterophobes always seem to be brilliant at twisting logic to justify everything.
Sounds like you pay very close attention to what gay couples look like. Why is that?
How can I miss it, skrekk? The dumb ass media is always shoving it in our faces and showing pictures of them every chance they get.
You didn't answer the question.
What question? Why you have such bizarre notions about gays?
hey servedproudly, what branch?
well i served proudly for 23 years. we had some gays. they had so many other problems that they didnt last long. my friends in the military now say the military is being destroyed by the gays and their agenda
the gays and their agenda
So what, exactly is the "gay agenda? I must have missed that email
I only "served proudly" for a little over three years during the Vietnam war. We had a few gays in my unit, and the only thing we worried about was whether somebody was going to cover you when you were getting shot at. The gays I know were certainly willing to do that. And nobody else gave a damn if they were gay or straight as long as they did their job. And they always did.
I just don't care. Late 50s straight guy who just doesn't care. I will be glad when these things are no longer news. People who are always so concerned with other people sex life, get a life and stay the hell out others peoples lives.
@DM, I'd ordinarily agree with youm but having a brother who is gay, I tend to take it a little more personally.
The Covert Fudgepackers, obviously.
I have always thought that it wasn't the government's business to control our lives. I used to have to vote Republican for that. Now the Republicans want the Government to control our lives! What the heck happened? What ever happened to personal liberty and freedom? Who cares if someone is gay? Why is it YOUR business?
This is great until the American Taliban is alerted and all the "Good ole, homophobic, southern Baptist biblical Bible Thumping haters come out to rid the world of this brave boy.
For a kid to do this is the same as we might see in the Middle East, with one exception. In the middle East, the religious fanatics would drag him to a public place for public execution under the laws of God. Here in America, we would see a group of "Good Christians" get drunk and drag him to a secluded spot, possibly rape him, tie him to a barb wire fence and then kill him.
That Christain love is as universal their Muslim Brothers.
Come now boys quote me some of that Leviticus and Romans to make your hate and brutality justified. Just remember that the Hate of the bible come from the Old Testament where the Hebrew writings of Abraham and later the 5 books of Hebrew Laws that Moses wrote is your promise that the hate is what god Wants.
Also remember that the Romans and the Popes were the ones who brought the "Holy Scripture " to us as they committed every imaginable horrible sin there is. The books Divine comedy, and Dante's Inferno is an EXACT REPLICA OF THE HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH as is historically documented. Pope Gregory brought us the second Crusade where everyone except the Christians were slaughtered out of Greed, not religion. The Pope effective removed all other religions so he could monopolize the Religious business and Business was good. We see the Monster churches everywhere and the Catholic church worth 8 Billion dollars. Yes Business is Good. You good Christians , if you knew the history of Christ would remember that Christ died because he rebelled against the Hebrew church in giving out blessings, feeding the hungry, healing people, saving souls, and forgiving sin, all for free. This made the Church look bad and cut into their holy roller business.
So he had to go!
God Bless the Child.
Lazarus
and you need to also know he died for all of us on that cross or did you forget that already.
Supposedly just before he died your Jesus ordered his mother to treat his beloved friend John as her son-in-law.
Apparently same-sex marriage wasn't an option at the time.
Rosie,
Read some history, especially about the thousand years after Christ died to see how his message was perverted. A good start is "The Dark history of the Popes" by Lewis.
You might say, "But I'm not Catholic", well to that I say that the Catholics effectively murdered all other religious influences within their power. Religions such as the Cathars were totally wiped off the earth. The Reformation and Luther had only the remnants of the original words to select from as they split from the Romans. So the end result is that what we have today is the result of the work of a very evil empire.
Lazarus
rosie-1728530
and you need to also know he died for all of us on that cross or did you forget that already.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
all of us? what's hell for then.
==============================
Constantine grabbed the early Christians and rewrote pretty much everything to be the way HE wanted it at Nicene. He even declared the first day of the week to be a day of rest, starting the move from Sabbath worship to Sunday worship. After a few generations, Christians forgot what day the sabbath was on.
your absolute ignorance of the true bible shows. i would explain it to you but i do not have time to bring your remeial mind up to kindergarden level. and yes from someone who actually served in the middle east you find people executed strictly because of their sexual orientation. muslim countries have no gay people because if they are found out they are either hung or stoned on the spot. now please tell me how this works with the pro muslim/gay agenda being pushed by the libertards. also women dont do very well in those countries either.
While I side with gay rights, Christians in America are no where near as bad or brutal as Muslims in the middle east. If you need to use a hyperbole to prove a point. You have no point.
Only because they can't be thanks to our constitution.....it is a VALID point in my opinion:)
75th,
Instead of telling me of ignorance of the Bible please show me and us what an expert has to say as an opposing opinion!
It is so easy just to say "Thats not true, but if so, what is the truth? I will gladly support any statement I make with historical documented evidence if you will do the same because I am not JUST referencing the bible, I am using history to either validate of disclaim it, whichever is true tot he point. For Example, What do we know historically about Abraham? Not the MUMBO JUMBO from the bible, but historically?
There is a huge difference and it is there for a historical purpose by the people who published it.
so please feel free to address any point I make and we will see who is more correct.
Thanks and LOL
Lazarus
Disgusting. The boy is sick.
nad/And you are worried about them because???????
Not yet, but wait until he sees all of that blatant Heterosexuality with the butt grinding, and kissing and all. I hope he is not influenced by all of that and loose his natural tendencies! Ooh, that would make a maggot gag.
Lazarus
What boy? The article is about 2 girls.
Not so much, read it again. It's about a boy named Stacey, not a girl.
I am kinda with Steve452464 here.
OMG, The world is so happy you are with him. I have to ask, WHO CARES? answer, nobody dummy.
Are you taking him to the prom?
who wears the dress? Barf! What a frekin country we have become. Were Adam and Eve two guys or girleys?
NO.
Gary/At least the gays aren't going around committing murders and rapes, perverts, robberies, mass murders and you name it like us straights, so give me the gays any day. So why are we worried about them. Its seem like some the straight men are the sick ones.
OMG, The world is so much more enlightened with your intelligent commentary! I have to ask, WHO CARES? answer, nobody dummy.
woman strong,
And straight women. Its not like women are always these innocent creatures.
The explanation is facile, self-serving, and not credible. The school board caved in the face of aggressive legal action and precedent. This story is an object lesson for gay students to stand up for themselves and for homophobic administrators to think twice before assuming they can get away with their bigoted policies.
That's my reaction too - it was a convenient but incredible excuse for a rather obviously bigoted policy.
But at least they did the right thing in the end and affirmed a policy of non-discrimination.
The excuse they provided made perfect sense. Stop being so paranoid.
Im for gay people going to prom, but the rule actually makes sense. Its to stop two friends from benefiting from the couple price if they are both going as singles. They probably should have thought that one through.
Why the need for an explanation at all but to duck the charge of homophobia? If it were true, why did they not know the questionable origin of the policy in the first place? They simply enforced the policy, because it suited their prejudice. Now, under pressure and after the fact, the lame explanation serves only to highlight the underlying homophobia.
Actually the excuse made no sense whatsoever given that they had already told him they'd enforce the policy and thus couldn't bring his same-sex date.
They simply created an excuse after receiving a letter from the SPLC. It should be noted that these homophobic prom policies are common in Mississippi.
Which brings up another question. Why should a couple get a price break as compared to two singles? Does the couple take up less space? Perhaps they only occupy one chair? Does one couple eat less than two singles?
Lovely, Isn't it gay that their prom will now have a queer. What's next? Pedophiles on parade?
Being normal, I would boycott the prom. I would also take a barf bag if I went (which I would not).
Gary,
By "Normal" do you mean that you sneak a peek when you are attracted to another male, then beat them up so everyone will know you are not attracted to him?
I bet you are real popular in the locker room.
Lazarus
Good for them! I likewise agree that it too bad that it took threatening going to court to let this young man and his friend exercise their rights. Maybe some day the people of this country will stop worrying about the color, religion, disabilities, sexual choice, wealth, looks, weight, etc. of a person and look into what is in those folks heart. That's what matters!
Good Post Dude!
The insecure whelps and minions of Satan hide under the same robe of righteousness of the Holy Roman Empire and the rivers of innocent blood that has stainded the earth for over 2 thousand years. If you dolts can read, how about picking up a history book to see the reality of the origins of your blind faith.
The thing about blind faith is you need to be blinded to have it.
Lazarus
Man.....you all should be collapsed especially you larry! anyone who disagrees with you states their opinion is a horrible person however, look what you are posting!
I don't hate the phobes for their opinions, I hate their actions of bothering to post them as though the rest of us want to witness their perversion of Jesus' love.
sdbolt,
I never said you or anyone is a horrible person. History is there for all to read, all you need to do is to seek the truth and it will set you free.
I love you.
Lazarus
Actually his comment history is there for everyone to read and it reveals that sdbolt is both a virulent homophobe and a rather horrible person.
Good to see only a few of the Right-wing bigots have stepped in it here (Steve that means you) and ServedProudly, I would be happier if you hadn't served at all. We don't need you kind in our Proud Armed Services.
how come mark's comments are not collapsed?
sdbolt....Because comments that are accurate are generally kept visible.
Mark if only queers served they would to busy checking each other out to protect the country
are u speaking from experience.....I'm guessing you are....LOLOL!!
sdbolt,
Posters collapse comments. If there were enough homophobes on these boards, his comment would be collapsed.
Oh boy, NBC sure hit a homerun with this newsworthy story. This rates right up there with WGAF!!!
Seems to have gotten your attention being that your in here foaming at the mouth with irrelevant comments.
let me understand this. if you do not believe in all the gay crap then you are a homophobe and a bigot. even though i believe that even though they are gay their rights should not be violated. so i guess that would mean that you are a heterophobe and a bigot folling your world view
The first step is to actually talk to a gay person. get to know them. When you discover that they are born the way they are, then maybe start to understand that it's not something to hate. Take the festering hate in your heart, and get rid of it. Isn't God Love, after all?
Sorry buddy, acting on a whim, a desire, a need is always a choice. Always! People are born with a lot of "attractions". That does not give one license to act upon them. We are all born with heterosexual equipment. Some choose to pervert what nature intended.
I remember my first crush. Cute girl, second grade. Never had a crush on a guy. Not once. Did see a backside that was cute, long hair... He turned around and shattered it. Nope, not gay. It is as fundamental to me as breathing. If it is not that way for you, then perhaps that is the problem you have in understanding those who were born differently.
bottom feeder POS!!!!
Oh now THAT was poetic!! Did you mommy help you with that or did you come up with that completely baseless declaration all on your own?
That's right, have, you are! Don't be ashamed, shout it from the rooftop!
Well. Most normal homosexuals, would not want to be singled out at their prom, and force their way into the spotlight, like, flaunting their way, of having sex.
Since sexual behavior wasn't even mentioned in the article, it sounds like you have a very active and fevered imagination.
...they were probably just hoping for an extended legal battle and a cash payout in the end......just the way the world works now.
How do you define "normal homosexual?" How many homosexuals do you know?
OMG that's what I wanted to know....LOL!!
I know several. Enough to know that people are made the way they are made. Allowing gays the freedom to simply be themselves in no way endangers the life or happiness of anyone not gay. Just because you allow gay marriage it doesn't mean YOU have to get one.
Of course you do, @Dennis. That's how same-sex marriage is going to destroy "traditional" marriage. Its all written down in the "Gay Agenda" (revised edition).
Damn, I gotta get on that gay agenda mailing list. Even my brother can't get a copy, and he's gay.
Well it is a new day in America but it is not for me but ever rabbit to their own habit.There have always been gays you just did not know it.
We even had a gay President already. Back when it didn't matter as much as it would today.
"We even had a gay President already. Back when it didn't matter as much as it would today."
False at least not "outed"
From Buchanan’s May 13, 1844, letter which described his deteriorating social life after his great love, William Rufus King, senator from Alabama, had moved to Paris to become our ambassador to France:
Of course the understanding of what it meant to be gay is a bit different today, but there's no doubt at all that Buchanan was gay and that his colleagues in Washington knew it. That's why they called William King "Mrs Buchanan." It also helps explain why Buchanan burned all his personal papers before he died.
Nope. Not outed thet way we would in the 21st century. But spoken of back then in the manner of folks of the day. When it didn't matter as much.