Tomas, you are calling the girl the bully? NO, she is NOT responsible for almost being attacked and possibly killed, no matter what she may have said to them (and you don't even know if she did say anything that would amount to bullying nor who started with the alleged bullying. Maybe the boys are the only bullies, and she was just defending herself!) You are saying she and her parents are in some way responsible for these boys having access to a gun, plotting her murder, and so on? You are completely out of touch with reality. You are scary and dangerous, because you blame the victim!

READING COMPREHENSION PLEASE! Where does it say the girl was a bully? These 2 boys are in desperate need of mental help. Quit trying to blame everyone for the 2 boy's actions.

i was taught you don't hit girls...sounds like the kids were gon'a knife her...nobody said you couldn't defense...

You are an idiot to blame what would have been the victim

Guns and knives don't kill children, horrible parenting creates an environment where children are so empty of values that they believe they can murder with impunity.

Robert 337---- Did you mean to say,"Thank God they WERE caught in time...." The word 'they' indicates your subject is plural.

Maybe the girl wasn't nice to them. Maybe they all didn't like each other. At issue here (among many things) is that for some reason these boys decided that the only solution was to kill her. They apparently had no capacity to find other ways to deal with the situation or even just ignore her. School is a tough environment and always has been because children will form groups and will either be unquestioning best friends or torment each other - and yesterday's best friend can be today's tormentor.

So now we have to wonder when did death, one's own or someone else's, become the appropriate solution to problems like name-calling?

Article quote --One of the boys had taken the gun, which originally belonged to his grandfather, from an older brother's room, according to a declaration of probable cause.

This is why people need training and more regulations concerning guns. The Grandfather gave a gun to the older brother who just kept it lying around in his room without a trigger safety on it and bullets in the chamber. Wow.

redmoth

Tomas, you are calling the girl the bully? NO, she is NOT responsible for almost being attacked and possibly killed, no matter what she may have said to them (and you don't even know if she did say anything that would amount to bullying nor who started with the alleged bullying. Maybe the boys are the only bullies, and she was just defending herself!)

Actually I believe you are wrong. If I go to work and continually make someones life a living hell and then they finally lose it and shoot me, I would say that my actions where the cause in the first place and should be held somewhat responsible for them. This is not to say that the two boys where not at fault or only partially at fault, they too are responsible for their actions. It's like those guys that stood by and cheered while the woman was being raped. They are just as guilty for not doing anything as the person doing the raping. You can't bully someone and then wonder why they don't like you or want you dead.

As far as whether she did or did not say anything, you do not know either and can not speculate as well for the boys. All you can do is go off of what was posted in the article and that said that the boys where doing this because she was being a bully. Since we are all speculating based on what was written, then it would be assumed that it is correct and that she was the bully.

I feel the teachers are responsible and should have some discipline done to them for not making sure the boys where safe in her class if that is where the bullying took place. I too recall that age and how I wanted to tear the eyes out of a girl that picked on me and the teachers did nothing. Difference is I didn't bring a gun or knife to school to handle it.

Tomas Cheng:

Think again! There is nothing in this article that suggests that the intended victim was a "bully". Moreover, you seem to have automatically accepted the opinion of a 10-11-year-old boy whose perceptions seem dangerously distorted.

Please don't blame the intended victim.

The 'older brother' should be slapped with a big fine for not securing his handgun under a secure lock and key that available only to himself. Maybe even have his gun confiscated. He is certainly not a responsible gun owner and gives all a bad name.

Agreed earthgirl, there should be some sort of fine.

BMette - actually there was mention in the article to infer it was due to the bullying done by the girl. Regardless of the boys age or mental state, it does not change what they thought. People should treat each other with a little more respect if they want to be treated with respect back. This is something the girls mother and father should be teacher their child.

I remember teasing a boy when I was 10 because I liked him, I called him names and was mean to him because I liked him. That is what kids do. Maybe she was acting that way because she at that age did not know how to express how she feels. Kids do that. If in fact she was a bully, which my daughter was victim to then that is a different story, I had meetings with parents, teachers, principals and the superintendent of the schools and it still did not stop. Finally, I let her be taught how to fight and she whooped this girls ass and never got bullied again. The schools do nothing, even when witnessing the bullying. If anyone is to blame it is the action or lack of action of the school. I believe the boy with the knife needs to be sent away. The look out boy, know one really knows if he would have shot anyone. They both need help, and the girl needs some sensitivity training. Why are peoples posts becoming English lessons. Who cares!

Lisa Smiley - You bring up a good point about kids picking on kids they like. I am still young enough to remember that. Maybe it is time that the schools before they teach their curricula that they teach how to act when they have certain feelings and reinforce it throughout grade school. Maybe then some of this can be avoided. Thanks for your post.

Ban hanguns.

What is this world coming to? Where do children get guns? I guess mom and dad don't have a locking gun cabinet. I hope the parents are proud of there little boys, this is what they have given the world...thank god the little girl was not harmed.

Not sure why you guys are saying she wasn't bullying him and his friends ...

BMette

Tomas Cheng:

Think again! There is nothing in this article that suggests that the intended victim was a "bully".

Nothing that suggests bullying?!

They intended to kill the girl because "she's rude and always made fun of me and my friends,"

I'm not saying she "was" a bully but it seems she was on the track of bullying. This still does warrant what these kids were going to do. Kids can be cruel and we all know that.

It's part of growing up and setting your status as a person. It's in human nature to want to be king of the mountain but children are too young to understand the repercussions of their actions.

Too much dam TV man. No child on earth would've thought to plot what they were going to do if they never ever seen TV in their young lives.

Now, this all funnels back to their parents and how they were raised. Bad, bad Daddy/Mommy...

takenaka,

Seriously?! Again?! I think we got your point on the ten thousandth time you wrote "Ban handguns".

It's time you get a little more creative. It's getting old.....

@brenda, you feel the teachers are responsible, and that punishing THEM and adding more "feelings" curriculum to an already weakened American Language Arts and STEM curriculum is the answer? Get a grip. You clearly have zero classroom experience outside of your own schooling. First of all, kids that age bully. It completely sucks, but they do it, and they NEVER do it when an adult is present. I was bullied, and my teachers had absolutely no clue that it was happening. None. I have also found out from students WHO HAVE SPOKEN UP FOR THEMSELVES INSTEAD OF BRINGING WEAPONS TO SCHOOL that they were being bullied, and have been shocked to find out who the bully was...the seemingly most easygoing, well-liked kid that you'd never suspect. Even the victim more often than not treats the bully like a friend in front of adults out of fear. Unless the victim speaks up and tells someone, there is no way for the teacher to know what is transpiring when he/she is not present. These boys clearly took justice into their own hands, rather than asking for help. Second, if you think that teachers are not already acting as mom, dad, and counselor, you are beyond wrong. Every day we are trying to instill in students (and it feels like in vain, I might add) how to deal with their feelings and behave respectfully in order to earn respect in return. They are NOT coming to school with that kind of upbringing any more, and it gets worse every year. To them, respect is something that they deserve no matter how they behave, but they do not feel that they owe it to anyone else. These boys need punishment and psychological counseling to understand how to deal with bullies (newsflash: it's not by stabbing little girls), and their parents need parenting counseling.

Serious mental issues:

Drop the "bully" theory & read more articles:

The younger boy took the gun from his older brother by finding a hidden key to the gun case kept in the brother's bedroom, and the older brother told authorities that he stole the firearm from their dead grandfather's home, court papers said. The older brother is also a juvenile, Rasmussen said.

The two boys told another student two weeks earlier about the plot to kill the girl and were going to pay him $80 to keep it secret, the court filings said.

The two boys were going to kill the other six students by luring them away from school one at a time, court papers said.

When authorities were transporting the arrested boys to the Stevens County Courthouse, the juvenile probation department staff told a detective that they overheard the older boy telling the younger: "If I find out who told them about our weapons, I'm going to kill them. I don't care; when I get out of jail I'm going to come back and kill them," according to court papers.

Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/fort-colville-elementary-school-fifth-grade-boys-plotted-to-kill-colville-washington-classmate#ixzz2L4Fhew00

Brenda:

I suggest you look at other LOCAL articles from WAshington before you post your personal analysis....based on your life:

I too recall that age and how I wanted to tear the eyes out of a girl that picked on me and the teachers did nothing.

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/fort-colville-elementary-school-fifth-grade-boys-plotted-to-kill-colville-washington-classmate

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/

ri mom,

I don't agree w much, if anything you write, but I must give credit when and were it is due. Wonderful post!

First of all, God put the girl who these boys wanted to kill on this earth, the very girl who apparently was a bully. Obviously the 2 who plotted the murder are overdoing it,

"overdoing it", Tomas Cheng?

You think, maybe?

They intended to kill the girl because "she's rude and always made fun of me and my friends," the younger boy told investigators, according to the documents.

You draw a vast quantity of assumption masquerading as fact from one sentence in the story. That the girl was some sort of universal nuisance that the teachers and school administration was willfully ignored. This may come as surprise to you, but elementary school students often tease and bully one another. Teachers can prevent some, but never all of it.

Most importantly, no degree of rude behavior could justify the plans of these young boys.

Bizarre stories such as this one invariably inspire equally foolish and bizarre comments. So far your response gets the blue ribbon for complete disassociation from reality and nonsensical reasoning.

Teachers and Principals often ignore and protect the bullies.

Look at Columbine, and other school shootings.

They happen because the bullied victims see no other way.

Who cares if the girl bullied these boys? Clearly, their solution was the wrong choice. There is no clear easy solution to dealing with bullies as most kids are exposed in one form or another. I remember being bullied by the same guy, starting in junior high. In high school, I got involved in sports - lost weight, got stronger, while the guy who picked on me smoked cigarettes.... When he went after me in my junior year I literally kicked his butt - he had to have stitches after I was finished with him. I derived no satisfaction from the beating I gave him because I realized that in the heat of the moment I literally went berserk - I could have killed the guy with my bare hands if two teachers hadn't pulled me away.

There should be some way for dealing with bullies before a kid feels he/she has to take extreme measures.

Whatever happened to "personal responsibility?" Don't parents and the rest of society teach that anymore? I guess I forgot, "It takes a community to raise a child."

I disagree! It takes RESPONSIBLE parents to raise a child, with, or without, the assistance of a community. When are we, as a society, going to grow up, ourselves, and start making people, of ALL ages, responsible for their actions? And that includes the media, with their rush to "analyze the news," not being in such a rush to spread hate, discontent, and an unrealistic view of the world. As Jack Webb, as Sergeant Joe Friday, "DRAGNET," used to say - "Just the facts, Ma'am. Just the facts."

As a kid, growing up in the forties, fifties, and early sixties, I was taught respect for others point of view, respect of ones elders, and a sense of personal responsibility for ALL my actions, or lack thereof. What is this country becoming?

EIGHTY-BLINKING-DOLLARS!! Either school lunch has REALLY shot up in price or this lad needs to have his allowance curtailed a bit!!

These kids have been watching lots of TV. Children of this age could only learn this plot by the creative Hollywood. The future doesn't look to good for the rest of society that will come in to contact with these boys in the future. When they go through the juvenile prison system they will get more proficient in this kind of behavior. Why did the adults in the homes allow access to the weapons? When will they be prosecuted?

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/fort-colville-elementary-school-fifth-grade-boys-plotted-to-kill-colville-washington-classmate

KNOCK

OFF

THE

BULLYING

THEORY

AND read reports from that town

infinitely sad.

if these kids were adults, it would be pre-meditated attempted murder charges at least the oldest one would be charged with. the fact that the boy had the intent, idea and intelligence to plot something out is incredible.

in this situation i believe the parents are directly responsible - for not being there for their son, for allowing whatever video games and/or violent TV shows. my son's wife allows her boys, 10, 7, 4 play violent video games like Call of Duty, Left for Dead, etc., as well as whatever kind of movie (violent, R-rated) they want to. my son is unable to change her mind on this. i see the two youngest having extremely aggressive behavior and the four year old often says to me: "all girls need to be shot in the head."

you see where this is going ...

Resorting to the use of a any type of a gun to solve interpersonal problems is only the tip of the iceberg of what has gone wrong and is going wrong with how we deal with each other no matter the age of the person. Banning guns, gun control, gun education like banning bullying, bullying control and bullying education does not answer or solve or address or resolve the complex issues of mental illness or bullying.

No body teaches self control any more . . . we are taught the world is waiting for us to be anything we want to be or do or see or think. This is just not true. We can not be anything we want no more than a blind man can think or dream himself into seeing. We each have built in limitations and we each have a set of skills and some of us have real talent and some of has an extraordinary gift and a very special few have more than one extraordinary gift.

Self control and self discipline are essential in each individual member of every society if it is to function in a way that allows all its members to feel and be safe and to feel and be treated fairly.

There is nothing wrong in having an ordinary life. It is a very good and satisfying life in which one can be very productive and achieve happiness in their home, in their spousal relationships or not, raise loving and respectful children or remain childless and develop a community of friends and family that are emotionally supportive and an extended social network in which one can work and have recreational benefits as wanted or needed and proper medical care and spiritual guidance if desired.

Not everyone can be qualified to go to the moon or lead their parents favorite football team to super bowl victory or succeed to be the President of the United States or a corporate head or invent the world's next greatest invention or walk the red carpet all the way up to the stage to receive their academy award. But, neither should they be discouraged from dreaming it or pursuing it. It is our duty as parents and partners with our own social environment and the blending social environments of all our children to exercise self control and self discipline in every aspect of our lives.

Self control and self dicipline that is based on what is the best and highest thought I can hold, what is the best action I can take that conveys that I respect others as much as I respect myself.

Our world has gone crazy with the drive to be first, to get ahead by having that competitive edge and pushing our children to see them self as more deserving of being first and being treated as though they are the special one in all their social activities.

We are making mistakes with raising our children from the moment we lay them in their first crib decorated right out of a magazine . . . without getting to know the child first we decide what his or her likes are and will be . . . we are raising a society of consumers who do not know what their real personal likes and dislikes are . . . they are imitating us and what we make them to be . . . no wonder they are going crazy and fighting back with such rage . . . they hate what we have done to them and they nor we have the understanding to see that what we are doing is wrong from the very beginning of their little lives

. . . our society our social order has created these little and big monsters . . . we have made our self and our off springs sick with "being special" "getting ahead" "being number one" "being first" "playing favorites" and bullying those who don't agree with us or are perceived to be too weak to stand against us.

It is not the parent's fault. It is not the teacher's or the school's fault. It is not the government's fault. It is not the gun owner's fault.

Get the damn illegal drugs out of this country and stop worrying about the illegals who come here to work. Focus on what needs to be fixed . . . drug addiction is destroying millions and millions of everything America has. The illegal aliens that come here to work . . . provide a tremendous service . . . and if you don't think so . . . then don't hire them to mow your yard or use them for cheaper labor and then complain about them being here. Your kids are watching and listening to you and all their hear is hate and see you cheat to get what you want.

Personally, I blame the "CHURCH" for not being able to teach morals and the ethical thinking required for an individual to develop self control and self discipline required in making decisions that prevent us from hurting others and our self. The "CHURCH" has been to focused on "saving" and "condemning sin" and taking in "offerings" to build bigger buildings in which they can attract a bigger audience with a more expensive cast of singers and instrument players for entertainment. The teaching of morals and ethical thinking does not require entertainment . . . it requires a personal knowledge of the benefits of ethical thinking that leads to moral actions which enhance and benefit the entire social structure to which one belongs.

We are not cooperating with each other . . . why should would expect our children to cooperate with each other . . . the violence in the home is the beginning of the violence on the playground and in the classroom and then in the streets.

If you want better kids, then provide them with an ethical social environment in which to grow and you won't have to worry about locking up your guns or you money or your little ones who are too young to understand that they are criminals and unworthy to reside in our open society.

We are to blame . . . each one us has contributed in big and small ways to the social problems we are enduring today. We all have to agree to stand up and say . . . stop, we have to find another way that works or else our great-grandchildren will completely destroy each other.

It's interesting the "don't blame the victim" crowd....acting like they know her. You know...I have never read an article that ever said, "Yeah, the intended victim was really a piece of crap, taunting, teasing, and bullying others so much that everyone hated her. The parents & teachers were told of her behavior and they chose to do nothing. As a last resort, the boys decided they had to handle the situation by themselves."

Funny, the media never prints stories like that. All intended victims are sweet, caring, wonderful people. But, then again, when does the media tell the whole story anymore these days.

Girls mature earlier than boys and she was obviously being a VERBAL bully....they took their response too far but she deserves some kind of punishment...

This is what our "guns for everyone" culture has become.

5th graders, not much older than many of the children recently slaughtered in Newtown, CT, feel that it is perfectly acceptable to take guns and knives into school and plan to use them to kill.

Of course, they can do that because they have "the right to keep and bear arms" protected for them by the US Constitution. In this case, because of how they were using it, the knife also qualifies as an arm.

I wonder if the NRA is going to come forward and defend their right to have these weapons.

Are any of you gun lovers going to defend their "right to keep and bear arms" ?

1.37

Holy Crapola.... you are a dangerous theorist.

What you know about this situation is NADA, ZIP,ZERO

Punish the girl? .....two little boys had access to weapons.....and an intricate plot to MURDER.

Your knee jerk reaction is....immature.

Your post is frightening.

"Yes, and I wanted to kill her alone at first," the older boy told a police officer.

The officer noticed in his interview with the older boy that he "did not display any emotion or remorse during the interview," court papers said.

Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/fort-colville-elementary-school-fifth-grade-boys-plotted-to-kill-colville-washington-classmate#ixzz2L5261mB2

11 year-old dating. Other sources indicate that the older boy had "a brief dating relationship" with the inteded first victim. 11 year-old breakup. The kid decides to take out six others as well. 11 year-pold logic. Overheard by police to threaten death to whoever told of the plot.

They really need to take a mental health approach to the prosecution of these two. Four years for the punishment phase? That will put them back into the community just when hormones are at their peak, and brain development is, arguably, at its nadir. They may be able to keep them longer if they go the psychiatric route.

I believe this is a symptom of the problem and not the cause.

The cause is a failed education system and a lack of parenting skills.

First, i would like to state that while there are bad ones, it is not the teachers fault. They try, but have very little control over their classrooms any longer. The Dept of Ed sends down rules that must be followed giving teachers very little latitude to do anything. And when teachers try to control their classrooms and discipline bad behavior parents are called in that defend their kids whether they are right or wrong.

The problem with the education system is that it involves very little teaching of basic communication skills that allow kids to learn effective ways of dealing with confrontation without the use of violence. Communication and problem solving has been replaced by technology.

Now parenting. In these days of everyone gets a trophy for participation we have parents that never let their kids fail and cry that it isn't "fair". We have parents that will always take their kids side and believe them even when they lie, and don't discipline when they are caught. We have an entire generation that thinks "My parents disciplined me and I will do a better job than them by never disciplining my kids" not realizing that it was that discipline that is what made them decent citizens in the first place. We have parents that never force their kids to get along with other kids when they are toddlers, they will simply say "I don't want you playing with them any more" instead of learning the life skills of working through the difficulties. We also have parents who let technology take the place of babysitters instead of good communication and problem solving.

Last week, in the high school where my daughter attends, a student was sleeping in class. The teacher woke him up three times and tried to get him to pay attention. Then, out of frustration the teacher sent the kid to the dean and wanted him out of her class. The parents were called into school. And what happened next is an example of why our society is failing. The parents fought back against their little precious kid getting punished because they could not accept that he was in the wrong and the teacher was written up. And because the teacher had been written up before for the same thing, she was fired.

Until we as a society deal with these problems things will not change.

@John737, I agree that parents are doing a bad disservice to their children by not teaching them to get along with others in a non-violent and non-selfish way. As the human population of the world rapidly increases, we have less and less personal space, and must learn to interact with others in a civil manner or we'll have more than a pack of trouble.

myname123

I think you make a good point that I missed. When it is perceived by society that even raising your voice to a child as abuse. But parents must make choices.

When deciding whether we were going to have kids, I told my wife that I would be in jail before my kids would not have discipline, and she agreed. All three of them knew what "no" meant by the time they were 2. And as a result, there teen years have ben a breeze because they knew from a very young age what was expected of them.

It was not discipline through abuse, but through communication and problem solving. And if society doesn't agree with how I handled it they can bugger off.

John737: And if society doesn't agree with how I handled it they can bugger off.

And with that comment, I'm sure they learned how to show love and respect for others, as well.

Funny!

No, learning to love and respect others comes from seeing love and respect in the household. I will love and respect others on a personal basis, but I refuse to accept that I should love and respect society as a whole when it clearly hasn't earned it.

...but I refuse to accept that I should love and respect society as a whole when it clearly hasn't earned it.

Can't you see, then, that you are part of the problem?

I don't believe so. I was taught at a very young age that respect is earned and never freely given, and I still believe that today.

Maybe you could explain to me why I should love and respect a society that so clearly does not have the same values. Some people do, but society does not.

I read MADE FUN OF THEM AND OTHERS Where the F is Mr Rogers

John737278 - Maybe you could explain to me why I should love and respect a society that so clearly does not have the same values.

Why not? In my view, it's better than harboring animosity. Everybody is trying to learn something from their own individual experiences here. Like it or not, we all have to live here and get along. So what if we all don't have the same values? It would be nice if everyone did, but we don't. In my opinion, love is better than hatred. I used to be angry all the time, but then realized that everybody is the same as me. We all have the ability to see things differently than we do, so I went from anger to acceptance. As a result, I am much happier, and a much nicer person to be around.

We need to ban knives now. Every kitchen utensil is next. Those are just downright evil and no one should possess them.

myname123: You can be polite and teach children to be polite and still understand that our society is becoming a moralless cesspool.

My point is that it just might be possible to change that. Many people just don't know any better; thus we can show by example. That's how children learn, and you might just influence adult behavior as well. There are many people who behave as you do, are respectful of others, etc. Why not continue with nice behavior instead of going the other way and complaining that others are not respectful of you? No good can come of that, in my opinion.

Well, the boys clearly stated that she was a bully. I believe that they are being honest due to a couple of reasons. Children are cruel, and they only wanted to kill this one girl. Clearly she didn't deserve to die even if she is a bully, but you can't be too surprised when your own actions come back to harm you. I'm not sure what's wrong with kids these days. It used to be that a good fight solved all problems at school. Now, everyone plots to kill those that make fun of them.

Enneagram1

I will try to explain my position in a different way.

By definition, you must respect my "right" to have an opinion, and may accept and tolerate it, but in no way can I or society demand that you resect, or hold in high esteem, the opinion itself.

I will use an example. I respect the offices that our politicians hold, and I may even sometimes accept and tolerate their inability to do their jobs, but in no way can I be forced to respect the actions they take or them as individuals. They would have to earn it first.

That is what is missing in teaching our kids, acceptance and tolerance. Demands are quite often met with resistance and violence. What we need to teach them is to accept and tolerate rather than to lash out. I don't hate society. I may accept and tolerate it but trying to demand that I respect it or hold it in high esteem will be met with resistance because in many ways I don't feel it is deserved.

I hope I made myself clear as to why respect is earned.

myname123 - When out in public, I hold doors for everyone, I say thank you, I'm always courteous to service people etc. etc. etc. on manners that everyone should have.

I would like to apologize for everyone who has not said thank you for your holding doors for them. Seriously. I hope you will accept my acknowledgement, and continue to have good manners regardless if you think no one appreciates it.

myname123

You would be correct. I am exactly that way, but it always surprises me how many people slam doors in my or my families faces. I try to lead by example, but it seems to have no affect.

#1.55 John737278 - I hope I made myself clear as to why respect is earned.

Yes, you have. Your points are valid. I think behavior modification is within our individual capabilities, i.e., showing by example. That's the only means we have nowadays, since many children are not being taught manners by their parents.

Take care, going to make some wine vinegar.

John737278 - I try to lead by example, but it seems to have no effect.

Well, we just don't know. I like to think of it as "paying it forward". Everybody responds to kindness, and maybe someone just might think next time they go through a door that someone else might appreciate a little thoughtfulness. Don't give up!

Have a good day!

myname123 - The golden rule has died in society today,

Please don't give up on society. You and I have the power to change things, just by doing the right thing, without, I might add, any expectations. It has to spread. If we don't, it has has no choice but to go the other way.

"I refuse to accept that I should love and respect society as a whole when it clearly hasn't earned it."

So, essentially you're saying that society (other people beyond yourself and your family) is presumed guilty until they prove they're innocent? You may say that's not what you meant but it's pretty clear that's the meaning of the statement. As others have said, with this attitude you're part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

John954

As far as earning my respect, yes I will always view everyone I meet with guarded skepticism until they prove me wrong. Sorry, but that is what has kept people safe since the beginning of time. I am sorry if that upsets you but I have been proven wrong too many times looking at it from a positive view.. If everyone viewed it that way, maybe people would try harder to prove their worth.

myname123

When I stated "tolerance" it was within the scope of accepting others existence and choosing not to be around them, rather than simply killing them. It does not mean that I condone their behavior, it simply means that I choose not to be a part of it.

The problem as I see it is with population growth there are less and less places one can go to not be a part.

Girls mature earlier than boys and she was obviously being a VERBAL bully....they took their response too far but she deserves some kind of punishment...

2little2late - All you know of this girl is that the would-be murderer said she was "rude" and made fun of him and his friends.

On that basis you arrive at the conclusion that "she was obviously being a VERBAL bully". Then you allow that "they took their response too far".

Have you ever heard of considering the source of an allegation, before you accept it as truth?

Wow. When i was that age I might have punched some kid for being rude, and guess what? The teachers would not accepted my justification.

From the story I don't see how anybody could rationally conclude that this little girl deserves anything accept to be allowed to grow up into an adult.

There are only two parties for whom one can attribute blame in this sad affair: the parents, who allowed their children easy access to a gun and a knife, and the children themselves.

#1.66 John737278 - The problem as I see it is with population growth there are less and less places one can go to not be a part.

And the places we do go, we probably should not because what we do is move into the homes (habitat) of other species who share the planet with us and push them out. Some species of snakes, salamanders, crocodiles, turtles and frogs are destined for extinction very soon due to our misuse of common resources. I don't think we have the right to do this. Granted, scientists have told us that 90% of all the species who ever lived on this planet are now extinct; but those species took millions of years to die out, whereas mankind, due to our over-population, disregard for the habitat and food sources of other species and poisoning the water and soil, are causing extinctions at the rate up to 270 PER DAY. I think this is shameful.

I'm off my soapbox now that I've said my piece. :) Glory be!

But of course the NRA would have us arm all kids because they somehow think THAT will avoid the shootout at the O.K. Corral!

Enneagram1

Your speaking to the choir. Take a closer look at my avatar. It is a bronze I poured a couple of years ago.

myname123

So how long do you think it will be until there is no content at all in stories that the MSM puts out, not that it is far from that now, just headlines?

when kids are bad I BLAME THE PARENTS, NOT TEACHERS! if some of you would teach your children that you brought on this earth to act right and to know that if they bully or tease, etc... other children then they would be sent through the system but so many people coddle their kids and they grow up to be delinquents. STOP BLAMING TEACHERS and blame yourself! BAD PARENT/HOSTILE HOUSEHOLD usually equals BAD CHILD! When children do not understand right from wrong or they see their parent is willing to take up for them or sometimes the parent goes to the school and is verbally hostile toward the teacher (and sometimes physically) then the child believes they have the right to do what they want

its tiring hearing people blaming the teachers when you sent your rotten child to school now you want the teacher to teach them all the instruction they should receive at home. get a grip and work on your attitudes along with your children. dont they say the apple doesnt fall far from the tree, well guess what, mom/dad/grandma/grandpa... there is a rotten apple in the household somewhere!!!!!!!!!!!

@AGarcia - if some of you would teach your children that you brought on this earth to act right

No worries. All my children are quadrupeds, have soft, furry coats, and they are all extremely well behaved.

First of all, was the kid really serious about actually killing someone, or did he take a knife to school to threaten someone that was bullying him to get them to stop? Is this a case of adults over reacting like kicking a kid out of school because the kid brought in an aspirin against the school's zero tolerance rules.

If the kid was in fact serious, and if you have some way to make this determination, then I only see one choice. Ban knives and ban 5th grade boys from all schools. Sounds silly doesn't it. Well it is.

What we should learn is there is no one size fits all answers because there are no one size fits all problems.

Why the kid wanted to kill someone is not the issue either if he was found to actually be capable of carrying out his planned crime and not just make threats to get the bully to stop. If the kid was being bullied at school, where were the parents? Why did not the kid tell his parents or a teacher about the bullying. Why did the kid not have anyone in his corner to help him with the bullying problem?

Last time I looked, women do not deserve being raped because they wear short dresses and little girls do not deserve to get stabbed because the bully someone. So if this this kid is as rotten as this story indicates, then he should be locked up away from society so he cannot hurt someone. But before another life is destroyed, I hope steps will be taken to determine if he was just making threats becasue that was the only way he figured to get the girl to stop, or was he in fact really going to stab the girl. This is the issue.

I think this story will end up with an examination as to why this kid had no one to turn to in his hour of need as to the bullying which forced him to take care of the problem himself by using a credible threat. The fact is he never really did anything other than utter the threat so far as I can tell, which is why I question if the kid was really serious in the first place. I think if he was serious, he would have done the deed and not made the threats.

I have never met a fifth grader that would do something like that. He may talk the talk, but I doubt he would walk the walk. I actually feel sorry for a kid that young with no one in his corner to help him with the bullying problem. No parents. No teachers. You have to ask Why?

Any of the posters who failed to read the link provided by R.I. MOM need to do so.

As a former resident of the area cited in the article, I would like to point out that Stevens and Pend Oreille counties in WA and the Idaho panhandle constitute a haven for members of various Aryan Nations septs. When I started to read the original article my first reaction was, "I bet I know where". I would not be a bit surprised to find that a giant can of worms is opened when the parents of these two are brought under investigation and it's going to lead to "The Brotherhood".

Keith,

we are talking an 11 year old and a 10 year old. jail for life? really? do you not think that these boys can be rehabilitated?

while i believe that they have the mental capacity to carry out the attack because they obviously had the mental capability to plan this out with detail, there is a great responsibility and opportunity to get help for these boys so they do NOT ruin the rest of their lives.

never EVER give up hope with children.

When the judge sentences these two juvenile sociopaths to lockup until they're 18, s/he also ought order a complete mental eval of the parents, esp. dad. Nothing American males of any age do really surprises the world anymore, but boys that young learned it at home. Kids everywhere watch too much primetime/cable tv and gaming full of cops, crime, blood lust, guns, slashings and misogyny - but if it is also reinforced at home, then the rest of society doesn't stand a chance, especially female victims.

So, you do recognize that there are two families here, yes? There is no mention of a "dad" in any of the reports, but let's especially target "dad." Got issues?

I'd say at least 5-7 years. you pick the place

"obviously theres a gun issue to be debated" - whats to debate? what law would have prevented this that doesnt already exist?

the boys, the parents and society are to blame. period.

when i was growing up, guns were respected for the power the held. we had toy guns, and we had real guns - and we were taught the difference.

my girl is 11 - and knows the difference as well. she handles them with the respect and care they deserve and could teach a gun safety class to a room full of adults any day. how did this wonderchild come into being - GOOD PARENTING! where has that gone?

stop blaming the guns and take responsibility for the "gun problem" we have in this country. the lack of responsibility so prevalent in our society, an increasing lack of empathy and pervasive selfishness. the need to over litigate, under examine, and sensationalize every hot topic headline in search of more revenue.

we dont have a gun problem, we have a people problem. violence, aggression and all forms of abuse exist in this country regardless of any "gun problem" - so clearly that is not the solution. start barking up the right tree for a change, and putting the blame squarely where it belongs. or else be willing to ban atvs, autos, knifes, hands and feet which are responsible for more injuries and deaths than guns in the first place.

im sick of... ppl just leaving there guns in places kids will get them. if you are that irresponsible ..then you should'nt own a gun.

your comment is so true. Why was the gun out for the taking? The brother should be held responsible as well. Obviously these boys are in need of serious counseling. They should be held until they are 21 at the very least....They conspired together...that means they are perfectly aware of what they intended to do....and the fact that they had to bribe another student....where's that one? He needs to be held accountable as well. Maybe it is time to control hand guns as well. Let's face it....no guns...no gun violence.....wonder what lapierre is thinking right about now.....I guess the pressure from the gun lobbyists is getting heavy................

Obviously there's also a knife issue since the 11-yr-old states that he "was going to kill her with the knife and (the younger boy) was supposed to use the gun to keep anyone from trying to stop me or mess up our plan". The intention was to use the KNIFE to do the most damage. This boy seems to have had no problem with going up to this girl face-to-face and just plain stab her. WHAT IS HAPPENING in the US that KIDS (yes, 10 and 11 equal KIDS) feel it is ok to take a person's life as the fix it to a problem? What happened to talking and intervention? Since this boy says that the girl was mean - sorry but there are a lot of mean people in this world - to him was this the only way he knew of to resolve the situation?

Janet - Lapierre is thinking that if the girl was allowed to carry a gun she could have killed the boys before they could kill her.

Yes this is a people problem but it is also a gun problem. The law that doesn't exist yet is the one that says if you own a gun you must be over 18 and you must keep it secure. If you are under 18 you must be accompanied and supervised by an adult legal owner. If a child has a gun when not under supervision the owner is subject to a fine, and the owner is charged as an accessory to any crimes committed by the juvenile in possession of a weapon. If a crime is committed with a legally owned gun by anyone of any age, the legal owner is subject to those same accessory charges unless the gun had been reported to the police as stolen previously.

By all means, if you are going to own guns be responsible - really responsible.

Yeh and that go's for knifes, screw drivers base ball bats, hammers, axes , chain saws, pitch forks, rope, cars, trucks, tractors, pit bulls, and the list go's on and on and on PITIFUL if a human wants to kill it will find a way don't just blame guns! In my state if you try to correct your child all they have too do is call the police and guess who goes to jail !!! I get so tired of people blaming the parents who wants to go to jail for doing the right thing........................

We have the gun laws in place that would have prevented this... The problem is in the enforcement of the laws. Don't forget that they had a knife as well and more than likely would have used it. There are, afterall, more deaths from Knives than rifles, shotguns and blunt objects combined. Poor parenting and, because the harassment was taking place on school grounds, the school are more than likely the cause. Of course, it was the kids actions and they are ultimately to blame.

The story has NO indication of HOW they got the gun from a brother's room. It could have been locked up, with bullets removed and a trigger lock. WE DON'T KNOW.

What we do know is that children now think it is acceptable to walk around with a gun.

I wonder how they could ever have gotten that idea.

@dirp - Possibly from the violent video games they play all the time? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for free speech, and I have been known to play some MW3 or Battlefield every once in a while, but young children and games about killing people don't mix. Eight year olds shouldn't be playing Grand Theft Auto.

It is so easy to get more information than NBC ever puts into these articles.

Local news agencies report that the younger boy took the handgun from his brother's locked cabinet after he found the key. The brother stole the gun from deceased grandfather's house.

An all around repulsive and dangerous family. Easy to see WHY the little girl they were hellbent on murdering didn't like the boy(s). Who would? Her instincts were spot on.

The wrong people are still having too many kids in this country.

Repulsive and dangerous familIES. These were not siblings who planned this.

They weren't going to kill anyone with the gun. They were going to use the knife for the killing. Did you just skim the article?

We, as a nation, are willingly being led, like lambs to the slaughter, by a culture that is violent and dangerous to everyone, and yet our leaders are glossing over the real problem, all in the name of a "Great Society."

This is unacceptable to everyone with a sense of responsibility, but we are accepting it. Why? Are we so brain dead we actually believe the baloney we are being fed by the hypocrites in Hollywood and Washington, D.C.?

Why was the gun out for the taking?

It wasn't. The kid stole the key to a locked case and stole the gun.

Wait where did it say that terelyn? (not being hateful being completely serious...here's my serious face) •_•

Domewars - or she would beat the @!$%# out of you!

Regarding this conversation thread --

An observation over close to 40 years of elementary school teaching -- even though girls and boys are generally as big, strong and fast as one another at that age:

If you are a boy, fighting a girl is a lose-lose proposition among your peers.

If you win, so what? You fought a girl. Of course you are expected to win.

And if you lose, your standing in the boy-world plummets. You fought a girl, and you lost????

You are incorrect sir. These boys new exactly what they were doing. They knew enough to bribe another kid who knew their plans. They made a plan, and could have carried it out. They are old enough to be responsible for their actions. Unfortunately, if found guilty they will only be in jail until they are 18.

I see 10 and 12 year olds on the bus all the time, and they know precisely what they are doing - their frontal lobes are "developed."

These punks should be prosecuted as adults. They clearly had the mens rea to kill.

ProudtobeAmerican1-( You are incorrect sir. These boys new exactly what they were doing)

If you look back at my comments, you will find this sentence:

They can know right from wrong, in a basic sense, just not "get"the true consequences of their actions

It is obvious they know right from wrong. What is not obvious, and this is what a judge must decide, is if they understand what those actions would have really meant when it came to carrying them out. We all have fantasies, things we imagine doing in life. But never carry them out. For these two young boys, the Judge must find out, what the boys imagined doing.

For it is one thing to have the general plan. Like paying someone not to talk, having someone stand guard. It is quite another to actually deal with reality. Because then, one must confront something they have never experienced before. When all that macho bravo stuff fades away, and our real weaknesses, limitations and unknown factors from others come into play.And potential victims do not respond how we wish.Therefore, their brains, not yet developed to understand the "TRUE" enormity of the consequences of their actions would have meant, not the horror, but can only understand the basic right and wrong. Not think like you and I do as adults.No matter how much anyone would like to think they can. Medical science backs this up, a quick Google search will prove it.Don't need my input.

I have though spent decades working with youth, over 200,000 and can verify I have seen exactly how this is so true. Poor choices made because of immature brains,but later as more maturity came, it brought wiser choices. A ten and an eighteen year old just don't think the same.It's called growing up for a reason.

I knew exactly what I was doing and the possible consequences when I was 10 and 11 and your frontal lobes are fully activated long before age 10 unless of course you have certain mental illness's like schizophrenia

The kids clearly knew what they were doing and one even admitted how he "Planned" to kill her.

"I was going to kill her with the knife and (the younger boy) was supposed to use the gun to keep anyone from trying to stop me or mess up our plan,"

Tired of people saying kids that age don't comprehend what they are doing because most DO IF they are raised with a healthy respect for human life and taught about responsibility

When parents stop letting crap like Facebook,video games and TV babysit their children all day then you will see a huge drop in incidents like this until then you will see more and more.

JohnSmith78-(I knew exactly what I was doing and the possible consequences when I was 10 and 11)

Even your brain would have needed to develop and it was impossible for you to foretell all the ramifications of every choice you made.So you, like every other human being, made poor choices, I also made mistakes, as a part of learning about life. It's how we learn to choose the good things, avoid the painful, gaining wisdom. At least for most of us. Some folks seem to never learn, acting foolish and being a pain in the rear to others. While I hear there has never been but one perfect human on earth, so they say.

There is clearly a difference between making a plan, knowing what you want to do, and knowing the full impact that will have on you. But there is no way to understand how it will affect another person or change your life fully, at ten. Obviously a ten year old and twenty year old don't think alike, which is why young kids gets duped so easily, and taken advantage of by older ones.

Here is a link, providing information on the Adolescence, brain development, and Legal Culpability. It has wonderful information on what a child's brain is really capable of doing. Being able to know right from wrong, but seen having diminished capacity. As pointed out, we don't let children vote, smoke, drink until they are of legal age, recognizing they aren't mature enough to understand until then the consequences of those choices.

http://www.hhs.gov/opa/familylife/tech_assistance/etraining/adolescent_brain/Development/prefrontal_cortex/

I understand what you are saying. What does your studies say about what is the difference between today's kids and the kids of, say, 50 years ago. (I was a kid at that time.) I never ever thought about killing someone who was mean to me, when that young. Maybe because I had parents who taught me right from wrong. Maybe because I was punished when I did wrong, so tried to avoid it at any cost. Maybe, because I went to Sunday School and Church and my home teaching was reinforced there.......and at school. Yep, got spanked a couple of times there, but not for plotting to kill someone. Just for not being at the right place at the time I was supposed to. What other reasons do you have for the differences? Asking for real.....not trying to make any points.

Another option. Check on the contents of their back packs and pockets. The better alternative is to train up a child in the way he should go ... Maybe if parents took the time to teach their children life skills, then the problems we are faced with would be minimal.

As a little girl in school I experienced being teased/bullied too. Other studetns hit me, hit my sisters and damaged my personal items. When I've had enough of it,I retaliated, beat the stuffing out of them. Then the bullying stopped. There was no gun, knife or any other weapon involved.

Some people, especially teenagers have children too young. At barely children themselves with a lot to learn about life yet, in an environment where parents are too busy, how much would they know and be able to pass on to their own offspring?

It is sad.

John Smith, where did you get your medical degree, University of DUH?

Or maybe you have a Phd in childhood development, from Crackerjack College?

And your psychiatric training at mom's basement bar and WIFI center?

At least try and do some research on stages of childhood development before you write.

John Smith, you are right in that most kids think they know exactly what they are doing.

But as others have pointed out, often they actually have no idea about severity, consequences or permanence. Most kids do know right from wrong. In my experience, they will tell you the 'right words quite honestly and straightforwardly. Yet not infrequently they will do those 'wrong' things anyway. There is a disconnect here, and I believe it is largely developmental.

This is a wonderful article that talks about this. The kids under discussion are older, but the information is still enlightening.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/10/teenage-brains/dobbs-text

dirp -

Does it signifacantly enhance your self-esteem by constantly insulting others? You must be a small person.

hikeinmts

We had a boy who shot his father in our home town, when I was small. it was not only shocking, but confusing to so many. We knew his father was giving him a bad time from one of his sister, but as children, there wasn't much we could do. His son seemed so nice. Afterward, he was sent away to a special home we heard and eventually their family moved away.

While down the road, out in the country, another family's teenage boys committed numerous criminal acts, including killing neighbors pets, stealing from out home,damaging property, stealing cars, even raping a girl, etc. But they were never arrested because of who their father was. The idea that somehow five decades ago, life was "golden" is not quite completely accurate. Lots of things were covered up while many folks just looked the other way. Though we do live in a much more violent society to be sure, which encourages violent acts to solve anyone's problems. That would be the major difference.

Most folks don't realize, chronic repeat offenders make up less than ten percent of juvenile offenders, but are responsible for two-thirds of all violent offenses.It is interesting to note that between 1988 and 1992, juvenile arrests for murder increased by fifty-one percent compared to a nine percent increase for those over the age of eighteen.

Data shows that the arrest of serious violent career offenders begins to increase at age twelve, doubles between ages thirteen and fourteen, and continues to increase to a peak at ages sixteen to seventeen. It drops fifty percent by age eighteen, and continues to decrease through age twenty-seven. Initial arrest for a violent offense in a serious violent career most often takes place several years after initiation into this type of behavior since nearly half of those who continued their violent careers into their twenties reported having begun their violent offending before age eleven. Use the link below to see the grim reality of statistics on just how long children has been involved in committing crimes in society, in societies.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/juvenile/stats/

The idea it is only recently they have been committing serious offenses, is the wrong perception many in the public have. With the advent of radios and modern communications devices, including television and mobile devices like cell phones and such, when a child commits a horrible offence, or plans one, in a population over 350 million, it sure seems like we must have lots of kids planning on doing horrible things. Even right next door.

Because it is the negative stories which sell. Just as it can carry stories of killers taking guns to schools and killing children, or malls, theaters, etc. Giving ideas to impressionable young minds, of how to solve personal problems.

Why are you trying to put the blame on corporations for bad parenting? If children are watching and playing these violent videos it is because the parents are buying them for their children. The stuff I see on TV and in the videos, my kids would never have seen. Or at least would never have seen in my house. But I was responsible for my children. My wife and myself knew every minute where they were. If they misbehaved they got their tails tore up. They had respect for others. And I am proud to say that all 3 are professionals out in the world making a living for their families and not on welfare.

When bad genes combine with XY, someone's gonna end up a victim of all that crazy. People who think young boys are so angelic and innocent are a hoot; past the age of 7, they all need to be constantly watched and parented closely.

Stunned Kiwi, you are missing the point. Any mention of guns automatically hits the news. It is a red herring here, deliberately used by the media as a way to get attention for their story. The story does mention a very important fact, mentioned many times in this vine, but seemingly ignored by most, THE MURDER WAS GOING TO BE COMMITTED WITH A KNIFE! How many times does this have to be pointed out?

This crime has nothing to do with "gun control" or lack thereof. It is all about the culture of these young people, and what they are brought up in.

Where are you getting your information from? According to the following list of school shootings kids not only thought about, but actually carried out violence against other students and administrators.

And as for prayer in schools it is immoral for our school system to force any kind of doctrine on to our children. God does not belong in school he belongs in your religious building's and at home if the parents so choose.

Annoying it doesn't let you post links. oh well here's just a few from the page.

March 12, 1951: Union Mills, North Carolina Professor W. E. Sweatt, superintendent and teacher at the Alexander School, was shot to death by students Billy Ray Powell, 16, and Hugh Justice, 19. The assailants had been reprimanded by Sweatt, and they waited for him as he locked his office door.

May 4, 1956: Prince George's County, Maryland 15-year-old student Billy Prevatte fatally shot one teacher and injured two others at Maryland Park Junior High School after he had been reprimanded from the school.

March 30, 1960 Alice, Texas Donna Dvorak, 14, brought a .22 target pistol to Dubose Junior High School, and fatally shot Bobby Whitford, 15, in their 9th grade science class. Dvorak believed Whitford posed a threat to one of her girlfriends

November 19, 1969: Tomah, Wisconsin Principal Martin Mogensen was shot to death in his office by a 14-year-old boy armed with a 20-gauge shotgun

@Johnny Blackwelder. I attended a Catholic grade school in the 60's. I certainly do not long for the days of prayer and spankings. The nuns slapped students. It was outright abuse. We were forced fed church attendance every morning. Bullying was rampant.

@Taoistage. Thanks for the history. Молодец!

Taoistage - I don't wear rose colored glasses when remembering my school years, but... I do not recall mass killings of tens and dozens of people at a time on a regular basis. You listed four incidences of school violence over a 20 year period though I am sure there were more. We have had that many incidences of mass killings over the past year. Will there be violence? Unfortunately yes. But should we really just consider advances in weapon lethality as just one more labor saving device?

WELL said BlackWelder !!!!!!! When I was in school and I did something bad I got spanked with a paddle BUT I feared for what I was going to get when I got home and them lessons sunk in Back then you could leave your doors unlocked and never have to worry about it and guns were used for hunting ..........................

@Taoistage......like Anita says, 4 incidences over a 20 year period. About what you wrote about it being immoral for God to be taught about in school, or to be prayed to......you, and your today kind of thinking on this problem, are part of the problem. @Johnny......you are right (as opposed to wrong. not as opposed to left) in what you say. Now, I do wonder what "morals" Taoist would have taught in our public schools.......and who makes the determination what is "moral" and what is not. (I wonder if he thinks that it has been the same since the beginning.)

I am not saying that we didn't have problems - huge problems - in the '50s and '60s. We did, as a society. But, none that can hold a candle to what we are seeing today. Taoist.....seems like the boys parents had already removed God......and His commandments......from their boys' minds......and possibly made sure they were removed from the school that the boys attended.

NOw, call your names. Makes no difference to me.

Well in my day it was more than a spanking_— the razor strop was the main thing instead and soap for bad language . Inschool it was a paddle. All that is child abuse now.

Hike- as for the "morals" that should be taught. how about just being a good person? Doing good and being well. I don't need a thousands of year old book to tell me how to treat other people with the dignity and they respect any human being deserves. And why is everyone assuming someone is going to call them names? Can't adults have disagreements on a subject and not resort to name calling? I get why you believe so strongly in your god. I was born and raised very christian. In wanting to learn more about why MY religion was right and why all other religions were obviously wrong i began to research religion in general. The ideas in the bible were around way before the bible was written. Nothing in it is original. That doesn't mean it's necessarily incorrect, but to me it's enough proof. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. If your god is a moral and just god like you believe than I am unafraid to answer for my disbelief after I die.

Also, I didn't want to copy and paste all 40 incidents in the 50s and 60s. My point was jonny said no kid ever thought about hurting another student. Clearly this is incorrect.

What the razor strap, rulers across the knuckles, spankings etc. taught the children of the 50's and 60's was that the person who has the most might wins. There was no respect for authority, you respected the right of the person who could beat up smaller people.

Those people grew up and would beat their children. Those children, born in the 70's and 80's would beat their children. Those three generations have grown up deciding that its ok to lie to go to war, we're the USA, we have the most bombs, best military and are always right. They take guns where ever they want and decide "might makes right" still holds, a gun with 30 bullets making you righter than someone with 6, or 10, or 20 .

The sickness of adults abusing children in the 50's, 60's even well into 90's is reflected in the culture of perceived acceptance of violence even today.

You've obviously never heard of the Camden, NJ murders of 1949. Howard Barton Unruh went on a mass shooting spree, killing 13 people across town the morning of September 6th. 3 of his 13 victims were just children, ages 2, 6 and 9.

These things have always happened.

Nico75

“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”
― Abraham Lincoln

There were some of our Founding Fathers that said the same. Wise men they were.

This all goes back to who in the heck was raising these two kids and why was the older brother in possession of his grandfathers gun.A gun that should have been locked up by the grandfather.The laws need to be very strict about securing your weapon.The brother and his grandfather need to be brought up on charges of child endangerment.The 11 year old needs a serious mental health evaluation and treatment if needed.It's a shame that these kids have obviously been neglected by their parents otherwise they wouldn't have been planning to murder another person.

Access to guns facilitate crimes, indeed. But the culture is the real problem. Take Switzerland for example : "The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations; Switzerland thus has one of the highest militia gun ownership rates in the world" and "When their period of service has ended, militiamen have the choice of keeping their personal weapon and other selected items of their equipment" [ from Wikipedia]
Yet, Switzerland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world!!! It is obvious to me that taking away guns, assuming that would be possible, is not the only way to reduce crime. Other counties proved it.

Given these facts, a logical conclusion would be that there is something fundamentally different about Americans and their attitudes towards life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And it would not appear to be a healthy one, given the continuous displays of violence perpetrated on each other over there.

It appears to be so. Like any social problem, violence has probably multiple causes out of which a few are predominant. I suspect some of the young people have been presented early in life ( at home and in school) with a rosy picture of the world and their role in it, and when the reality is so different they become frustrated to the point they simply loose control. It is good to teach children self confidence but as they grow, schools and families must teach them two other things: that everything must be earned and that in real life it is normal to fail at times. Young people need to be equipped with the right tools to use when confronted with failure or difficulties. Because our children's education lacks, it will lead our society to more problems down the road, in spite of a " jungle" of laws we keep making thicker every year (as I said, knee-jerk reactions).

Another scenario could be, that at home they are presented with the picture that might makes it right. That if someone is hurting you, then the way to make it stop is to hurt them in return. (Not saying that this is the reason......just, could be.)

What is the more likely is that they have learned to KILL someone before they get a chance to think about hurting you.

The Bush Doctrine, played out in the school yard.

Bart133,It's the parents faults when kids do stuff like this.They can't access what you perceive as violent video games if their parents don't let them.The unsecured gun and the 11 year old leaving his house for school in possession of a knife are both of these kids parents or guardians faults.

Agree.

Bull @!$%# ! W S U When the rights of parents to correct their children were taken away this is what you get, when I was young and done something wrong I got my ass beat and the lesson sunk in don't do it again! pain is a good teacher and I never talked back to my parents because my brain said remember what happened the last time you did this..................

This has more to do with a failure to communicate between parents and children. As a Nation, we convinced ourselves that it's "quality" of time over "quantity" of time and in reality it is both and collectively neither is being done.

Yep, you are so right! You nailed it.

Karen is right. Parents these days act more like their children's friends than their parents. Parents are reluctant to discipline their children when they do something wrong because they think the child won't like them anymore or because they don't believe in punishing their child at all. A child will do whatever it wants unless, you as the parent, teach it what should and should not do. What is right and what is wrong.

And, when their child does something wrong, parents these days are quick to blame others for their child's behavior. I'm 32 years old and I grew up in a household where my parents were the boss! They had the last word on everything and they were not afraid to punish us physically (slap on the rear-end, hands, or face) when either my sister or myself acted up. I also grew up in a house that contained several guns or more.

My parents taught both my sister and I right from wrong and to respect firearms. They taught us to only resort to violence when we had no other choice. And, on several occasions, I had to resort to fisticuffs to defend myself from the other guy who was trying to punch and kick me. I, like everyone else, was the butt of many jokes, rude comments, and general name calling. But not once did I ever try and harm the person or persons with physical violence. I was taught to ignore the name calling if possible or tell the teacher or principal. And, on several occasions, this was enough to stop the bullying.

Which brings me to my last remark on this story. The teachers and principals of my school days were not afraid to punish you for acting up in class. They would yell, scream, and throw things around to get your attention. And if that didn't work, then you would be walked to the Principal's office where you were more likely given detention, suspension, or expulsion in really bad cases.

But nowadays, teachers don't yell and principals aren't quick to suspend a child for fear that the parents, who think little johnny can do no wrong, is going to sue them for harassing little johnny. We have become a society that does not hold people accountable for their actions. You can see this in the recent school shootings (blame the guns, gun sellers, etc) ridiculous disclaimers on commercials that state "DO NOT ATTEMPT (the woman's deodorant commercial where a woman jumps out a window into the "little black dress" her friends are holding out a window the below her, so she avoids getting the white spot on the dress"). That deodorant commercial in particular is a prime example of how quick our society is blame other for the stupidity of our actions.

I mean, it's common sense that you should not dive out a 6 story window for any reason, and yet, if they didn't do put that disclaimer at the bottom of the screen someone would have tried it. And that dumb soul would have went splat on the ground and their next of kin would subsequently had tried to sue the deodorant maker!

Common sense is treated like it's a highly infectious disease these days. It is sad to see how far society has fallen in just a few decades. I cringe at what the future decades will hold.

What a Stupid comment happy 2008....................

Grandpa is dead, but, by all means, let's lock him up!

The older brother stole the handgun from the dead grandfather's house - and had it locked in a cabinet. Younger brother found the key and stole the gun from the cabinet.

You should learn how to read other news sources before you post and sound downright ignorant.

That's it, we have to take away all the Grandpas.

Guns don't kill, grandpa's kill by giving guns.

Actually I would not mind seeing the parents, the brother, but not the dead grandparent charged with reckless endangerment. In fact I think the whole family should be criminally charged.

Didn't you read the article? Didn't you see that Grandpa died and the OLDER brother stole the gun from Grandpa's house?

What happened to your reading skills? I guess a question is,did you fail 4th grade reading comprehension?

Where does it say grandpa is dead? Gun originally belonged to grandpa, does not mean he is dead. The adult who is sloppy with a gun should go to jail if gun is used in a crime and negligence can be proven.

Happy -

You can almost always find more info than NBCLite posts. Use of search engine allows viewing of local reports which stated that the older brother stole the handgun from deceased grandfather's house.

NBC plays you by giving minimal details to spur uninformed comments back and forth.

I think we also need to ban knives.