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A protest in response to the death of fired LAPD officer Christopher Dorner – the subject of an extensive manhunt who is accused of killing four people – brought out about two dozen protesters in front of police headquarters in downtown Los Angeles Saturday.
Organizers said the demonstration would be peaceful and had expected about 200 participants to show up by noon.
The demonstrators called themselves "We Stand With Christopher Dorner." Some wore Guy Fawkes masks -- the ones known as a symbol of hacktivist group Anonymous -- to represent victims of police brutality.
They carried signs that read "end police brutality" and "clear his name."
Dorner, who was killed Tuesday after a fiery shootout at a mountain cabin near Big Bear, elicited sympathy from some who read his 11,400-word manifesto. In the document, Dorner described his firing from the LAPD after a review panel found he falsely reported another officer for excessive use of force against a suspect.
Timeline: Revenge-Plot Slayings | Read: Full Manifesto | Map: Dorner Manhunt
In the document, which he posted on Facebook, Dorner vowed to reclaim his name, and included a list of targets that he planned to eliminate. He also said the LAPD was a racist organization that had failed to reform after a series of scandals in the 1990s.
Dina Escoto, one of several people carrying signs at the protest, said she wished "in a way" that Dorner had survived so that the public could "hear his side of the story."
Robyn Beck / AFP - Getty Images
Christopher Dorner was fired from the LAPD in 2009.
She said she hopes the protest "sheds some light and police change policies so we won't have another Chris Dorner."
Escoto and others said they were focused on police brutality and on the shooting of innocent civilians -- in an incident in Torrance in which two women were shot up in their truck -- in the pursuit of Dorner.
"We're protesting some of the police brutality -- not just LAPD, but all over the nation," said protester and Lomita resident Vincent Namm, a former Marine. "With Chris Dorner, habeas corpus just got thrown out the window.''
Namm added: "They didn't seem like they were even interested in apprehending him."
Authorities said Friday that Dorner had likely died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound after a firefight at the cabin, which burned down during the confrontation. San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon said authorities did not intend to start the conflagration. He defended his deputies' actions when asked about audiotape recorded at the scene that seemed to indicate a desire on the part of officials to intentionally burn the cabin down.
Protesters were skeptical of the official version of events. Namm compared the Dorner gun battle and fire to the 1993 federal siege of a Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.
Saturday's demonstrators began to gather a little before 10 a.m. near the corner of First and Main streets before making their way to 100 W. First St., where they were met by yellow police tape bordering LAPD headquarters.
There were at least three officers at different positions in front of the building, along with three parked television vans.
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What annoys me the most is the comparison with Waco. What happened in Waco was a true crime, as those people posed no direct threat to anyone and the ATF responded by killing them and their children. That was an event that negotiations could have ended if given enough time. Dorner on the other hand had a hitlist.
welcome to the liberal way of thinking !
were the means never justified the end ! and yes that is what I meant to say , read it and think about it !
This one seems more similar to OJ. Only this time a jury won't be able to let the killer go free. The situation is serious when a PD has lost the confidence of so many of the people they are supposed to be serving. Something needs to be done to regain the confidence, and more than just paying lip service. I think it's easy for police to get an "us vs. them" attitude, and the general population senses this and returns that attitude in kind. Perhaps LAPD needs to put more cops on the beat, yes getting out of their cruisers and walking and biking, and get to know their people better, and let the people get to know them better. Trust is only earned person to person. And maybe everyone can lighten up a little in the process. There was a time when cops would actually mentor young people on their beat. And instead of busting them for every little infraction they could use that situation as an opportunity to do some one on one talking and trust building.
"Dorner vowed to reclaim his name..."
And murdering the children of people who wronged him is a good way to do that?
Really, u were there?
Nope but two 187'd corpses were, with bullet holes from his weapon that he fired...
Seriously mike-2598123, you can check that "liberal way of thinking" garbage out the door. Same goes for anyone that would say "conservative way of thinking". Go troll somewhere else.
Yes, clear the name of the nutjob who murdered 2 cops and 2 innocent civilians. Anyone that sympathizes with this man needs to get their head looked at. He may have had some good points about corruption, but that all flies out the window when he decided to murder people
I agree. Are all these protestors ex-criminals? Because I can't even fathom how they are thinking. There is nothing wrong accusing the LAPD of being corrupt, but why on earth would they want a cold blooded murderer's name cleared?
So are they saying it's wrong for LAPD to act in a brutal manner but it's okay for Dorner to do it? Huh? Dorner was a cop, he was LAPD, he was brutal and he was a murderer. So what is it people? You cannot be anti-LAPD and pro-Dorner. They are the same.
Mike-2598123, you say that you meant to write what you wrote the way that it is written. So, you're actually saying you don't know the difference between the words "were" and "where"?
"When in doubt burn them out." The official motto all our alphabet agencies.
I say he's better off dead for two reasons:
1: I don't have to pay for his incarceration and probable execution by lethal injection. Determination: he would have died anyway, only this way, I don't have to pay for it!
2: Killing this man likely saved the lives of many others. Imagine if he had gotten away during that standoff. How many more innocents would he have killed for something as insignificant as his name?
Do you believe in the afterlife? He's gone on to the great beyond now. I assure you that this man no longer cares about his pathetic Earthly qualms.
Whether he was wrongly fired or not is now moot. Killing the children of cops to get your point across is insane and should make anyone question anything that he claimed happened. The far left racial inquisition have shown that they will side with anyone no matter what they have done if there is even a whiff of racism. Maybe they should wait for a little bit of evidence before blindly believing what this lunatic said.
Regardless of what your opinions are on this matter, there will be something to definitely come of this. He has officially become a martyr to many individuals. Heck with this article alone, We know without doubt he has supporters.
Anytime you see on the news that there was a shooting, with reasons as to why they did it(example, Columbine), many people will see them as "heroes". When we first heard the cases of people "going postal", those violent acts started to seep into the minds of those who believed they were in harsh evironments. Many poeple who have "gone postal" killed those that were apparently deemed bad bosses, which doesn't mean the bad bosses were decent people after work.
Point of the matter is, with constant media coverage of situations like this, the more people will adhere to the idea of taking violence as an initiative for recognition of "wrong doing".
Apparently Dorner felt wronged after attempting to oust a "dirty cop" and was fired as a result. We all read into this subject matter and I won't comment further on it other than there should have been an investigation before giving him the boot.
Sadfully, an important note here is that despite the fact we know there is corruption with power, how do we adjust things so the power doesn't bring us further into corruption? We know there are bad bosses, bad cops, and bad politicians. How do We change so that we can have fewer incidents like this down the road?
It is only a matter of time before an incident like this occurs again.
Weell said, michelle!
Applejacks
I think you need to go read some books on WACO and the Branch Davidians, and not the tin-hat-new-world-order-edition. The Branch Davidians had Broken many laws, there were also claims of child abuse from inside the establishment, the police knocked on the door but instead all they got was 2 murdered police. The Wacco's inside were using teflon coated bullets to penetrate police bullet proof vests just as they even approached the building, you see the police just wanted to issue a warrant but the brainwashed nuts inside wanted to die for their child abusive leader instead, so they burned the building themselves from the inside, probably because they didn't have any poisonous kool-aid with them at the time. A New Ice Cream since has been invented, its called Waco-Road, its full of nuts but you can't get any out of the container....
This is truely a sad situation. Very sad that innocent people had to lose their lives, but I sympathize with Dorner. He had to take drastic matters, we as tax payers pay the police's salary, and the police feel as if they can disrespect whom ever whenever they want..... Sorry to say the message Dorner was trying to send burned with him, I beleive thats why the LAPD wanted him dead, not to stop the killings but to keep him quite. We all know he did not falseifty a police report, He was trying to expose the LAPD for what they are, and that in their eyes is worst that any crime. I never really wandered about the police that was tied up in the Rodeny King case but to hear they have gotten a promotion, needless to say I wont feel safe calling the police. I do sympathize with the familes that have lost their loves ones due to the misconduct in the LAPD, I havent heard to much about the people the police have killed looking for Dorner, the officers actions where very unprofessional, how many more innocent people where the police willing to kill to get there point across........ more promoitons coming up
All I can say to this is watch "Billy Jack" and you will have your answere.
I fully believe that Dorner murdered four people, and I would in no way defend that. I also fully believe that the reason he went nuts is that the cops lied, and drummed him out of their ranks. I would like to see an investigation into that, and into the out-of-control shootings of civilians by the cops, who were looking for Dorner. They should be fired, and possibly jailed.
The mother of accused killer Christopher Dorner, "Nancy Dorner", released a statement on Wednesday expressing dismay over the acts her son is accused of committing.
"It is with great sadness and heavy hearts that we express our deepest sympathies and condolences to anyone that suffered losses or injuries resulting from Christopher's actions," she said.
"We do not condone Christopher's actions. The family has no further comment and asks that our privacy be respected during this difficult time."
Mother of homicide suspect Christopher Dorner issues statement
www.10news.com/news/mother-of-homicide-suspect-christopher-dorner-issues-statement
Christopher Donor's own Mother and family are not making claims of foul play against Chris. Strangers to Dornor are doing this by his online Facebook manifesto which they then turn around and claim may not have been put up there by him.
To condone murdering innocent lives is wrong. "We do not condone Christopher's actions."
The Mother asks for her and the families privacy be respected, she has not buried Chris and she gets to watch a protest and have the media banging on her door. The protesters must really hate Dornors family to put them through this.
There are some who claim there is no proof that Chris Donor did this. Besides his own family coming out and apologizing to the victims:
"It is with great sadness and heavy hearts that we express our deepest sympathies and condolences to anyone that suffered losses or injuries resulting from Christopher's actions"
There is no proof by the protesters that he did not do this. This much has came out.
"A man identifying himself as Dorner taunted the father of Monica Quan four days after the former LAPD officer allegedly killed her and just 11 hours after he allegedly killed a police officer in Riverside, Calif., according to court documents obtained by ABC News
A man claiming to be Dorner called Randall Quan and told him that that he "should have done a better job of protecting his daughter," according to the documents."
http://
abcnews.go.com/US/christopher-dorner-manhunt-lapd-reopens-case-led-suspected/story?id=18444041
Do they have the actual weapons used for ballistic test with possible DNA on them? We have not been told. We do know that Randall Quan received a call, we do not know if the call was left in a voice message. If it was there could be records of the recording to do a voice analysis.
What was pulled out of Chris dornor's home, or his mothers we do not know.
CNN's Anderson Cooper says he got package from fugitive
www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-manhunt-anderson-cooper-got-package-from-fugitive-20130207,0,6906979.story
Others as well received a package from dornor, they may be able to do handwriting and printer analysis
as well as get a DNA sample if Chris Donor licked the envelope to seal it.
To protest with out knowing the full facts and without having any close family or friend support of Chris Dornor on these claims leaves the protesters not looking to bright. To not honor the family and let the mother bury her son in peace and set her up for the media to bang on her door is cruel and selfish on the protesters side.
[quote]
Ken Trout
The Wacco's inside were using teflon coated bullets to penetrate police bullet proof vests[/quote]
Teflon coated bullets do NOT penetrate bullet proof vest.
I hope people who are signing this petition are all about ending corruption and police brutality by the LAPD and nothing at all about advocating that aggrieved employees become violent revenge-seekers.
What part of his name should be cleared? Murderer of defenseless and unarmed people or murderer who ambushed a couple of cops? Or should just clear the murderer part?
Roc Watts:
A great start would be to put rampant racism, political correctness, and hate-filled partisan politics behind us. I am appalled at the extremist rhetoric coming from commenters as posted on NBCNews. It would be great to have hate-filled rhetoric filtered out before posting is allowed online so tempers can cool down. The acidic texts often foster a very polarized reader and distorts reality. The comments often do not add anything of value to the topic and attempt to slander the other political party. The commenters appear to have no job as they post throughout the day.
.
No matter the fact there was still corruption that turned him into what he was
LAPD is going to bury this as fast as they can. They screwed Dorners good name , and that is what set him off. The pwers that be do NOT want this to go any further, as it would expose them to ridicule and more lawsuits.
Read Dorners manifesto and see if it's the words of a whacko.
As for why he started killing people, I refer you to the Unibomber: "People don't start to listen, until other people start to die.... then they listen very, very closely. "
They both got the attention of the authorities, didn't they?
Matt-343495
[quote]
Ken Trout
The Wacco's inside were using teflon coated bullets to penetrate police bullet proof vests[/quote]
Teflon coated bullets do NOT penetrate bullet proof vest.
==================================================
Well, Matt, you may not be entirely correct on that statement.
From the Firearms History, Technology and Development website:
"Our story starts in the 1960s, when a company called KTW Inc. (named after the founders last names, Kopsch, Turcos and Ward) from Ohio was trying to develop a bullet with better penetration characteristics. Common handgun bullets which were largely made of lead, had the problem of deforming upon hitting a hard surface, such as a car door or a windshield, and became less effective after they deformed. KTW was trying to invent a better bullet for use by police departments (in fact, one of the founders, Daniel Turcos, was a police sergeant at that time and the other two founders worked in the coroner's office of the Ohio police department).
They eventually settled on a bullet design that consisted of a steel core, with an outer jacket made of hardened brass. This bullet offered much better penetration than older lead bullets, but it had a problem because of the hardened brass layer on the outside of the bullet. This hard layer did not engage the handgun's rifling very well and the friction caused the barrels to wear out prematurely. To reduce the barrel wear, the inventors coated the outside of the bullets with teflon, because teflon is very slippery and is one of the best lubricating substances known to man (the same reasons why teflon is used to coat the surfaces of non-stick pots and pans).
In 1982, NBC ran a special television report on these bullets where they argued that these bullets were a danger to police officers (many police departments had requested NBC not to run that program). After that television show, many American gun-control groups started to call these bullets as "cop killers" because they could penetrate the ballistic vests that many policemen used to wear at that time. Unfortunately, many of these reports wrongly reported that the teflon coating was the reason that these bullets had better penetration, rather than the hardened brass jacket which was the real reason. Movies and TV shows continued to spread the myth that coating ordinary bullets with teflon suddenly made them capable of piercing armor plates."
It' easy to see why the confusion about the effect of teflon coating came about. The coating was applied to facilitate the use of the new, steel core and hardened brass jacket bullets. It was the latter material, not the teflon, that gave greater penetrating power, however, people simply referred to the ammo as "teflon coated". If that is the type of ammo Ken Trout meant, he was correct. If you're a cop wearing a vest, I doubt the distinction in what to call the rounds fired at you makes much of a difference, the effect is the same.
to clear his name he would have to be innocent of the charges. How do we know that, because he said so? He is a murderer. He got fired, went through review and then also had it reviewed by a judge. Judge upheld it. So just because a murderer says it we take his word over the review and the judge????
If he is such a cold blooded killer, why did he not kill the man and dog? Why did he not kill the mother and daughter? I don't know if he killed that cops kids or not. How can I expect a known corrupted police agency to tell the truth either? Yes, he shot 2 cops. But they were shooting at him, that is survival instincts. Sad all the way around. And not a damn thing will change in police policy. Remember, cops are nothing but strong arms for the private corporate prison system. The more crimes, the more cops, the more prisoners, the more money. Ain't Justice grand?
A little clarification here the first 2 suspected victims of Dorner was Monica Quan, age 28 and Keith Lawrence, age 27. Yes they were children of their parents like we all are children of our parents, but they were no longer under age children.
Their killing as I have previously stated was totally unacceptable. Not 100% sure that Dorner did this, but the evidence collected makes Dorner the likely suspect.
Dorner exchanged gunfire with Police officers. Did he open fire on them first or did they open up on him first??? As it appears by the other two vehicles that the Police opened fire on, (driven by innocent people, and not even matching the make of his vehicle) that the Police had already taken a shoot first ask questions later attitude.
This is my first problem. I sure would hate to be out delivering newspapers and have the police open fire on me. This is unacceptable and I am sure that all of you if placed in this scenario would have to agree. Just waiting for someone to comment...No I like being shot at by the Police.
If the Police opened fire on Dorner first, then Dorner may have chose to defend himself with equal force. Not the right decision for Dorner to make.
Dorner, then holes up in a condo in Big Bear where he could of chose to shoot at more Law Enforcement or civilians (as the media has stated...just steps away from their command center). He did not.
Dorner apparently was watching the couple (not cleaning ladies) that maintained the condo (based on their interview) and whatever else was going on outside, that he could see. Dorner could have shot them both, but did not because??? Yes they were scared to death, as anyone would be...but they were spared. Also that couple deserves the $1,000,000.00 reward...She made the phone call that lead to the end of this scenario. Watch them get the shaft.
Same with the man with the dog in the pickup truck.
Now Dorner exchanged gun fire with more Law Enforcement. Who really started shooting first?
Dorner then breaks into a cabin. Luckily...unoccupied. A massive gun battle ensues, not sure how many rounds Dorner fired? The police are able to look into the cabin enough to identify blood spatters and mattresses. Me thinks...Ok we hit him, there is a possible chance of taking him alive. Luckily there was news there and people with police scanners to have some idea of what was going on.
I sure did not hear a Police officer on a PA system saying...Dorner this is your last chance to come out with your hands up...
Instead we hear on scanners...Burn it down...Thanks Youtubers.
Instead of hearing the truth I hear the Police making excuses...and that concerns me.
Yes...Dorner really F'd up but I think he could have been taken alive, even seriously injured, so we could get some answers rather than making assumptions.
As much as some of you may choose to disagree with me. My intentions are for all to receive the same fair treatment from our Law Enforcement and Judicial System.
Granted there are some people who have to be taken out with excessive force.
Unfortunately we will never be able to fully get into Dorner's head to know what he was really thinking. The police took care of that.
In no way do I support or defend what Dorner did. He could have chose a much different, less dangerous way of going about things. This incident gives us all chance to reflect and question ourselves. Hopefully some good will come of it.
Trust, the logic you use .......if Ted Bundy was such a cold blooded mass murderer why did he not kill some of the other girls he went out with. Because he didn't kill everyone he came across gets him sympathy? The dude murdered an innocent girl. He is a murderer plain and simple. I don't care how wronged one feels, murdering an innocent girl, or anyone, just makes you a murderer.
What a bunch of morons, this guy was obviously overdosed on steroids and ticked off for being fired. He saved the taxpayers a fortune by taking himself out. These protesters should spend their time looking for a JOB!
mike-2598123 makes some good points. Dorner was a noted Obama supporter and anti-gun person. What the liberals hate is most of the killers that make the news are all left wing nut jobs. The truth really hurts Mike.
For the people wanting to clear his name....speaks loads to the liberal ideals that they hold.
Even the suspected killer of JFK was arrested instead of shot on sight. What makes the police department think that they are more special than a president? What makes a civilian less important enough to kill the suspect on site for?
site=sight...sorry
My point being, if a person is killed by a person and the supposed killer is seen, the police only arrest that person.
Applejacks-7423330-
What annoys me the most is the comparison with Waco. What happened in Waco was a true crime, as those people posed no direct threat to anyone and the ATF responded by killing them and their children. That was an event that negotiations could have ended if given enough time. Dorner on the other hand had a hitlist.
Get your facts correct, the Waco compound had gas put throughout the compond when they relized that the ATF was coming in and knew they would use teargas. That's why the place went up in flames in like 5 minutes. Second all those women and children were found locked in the basement I recall, when the leader could have let them leave. He chose to play God and lock them in full well knowing what would happen.
As for the Dorner if he was upset with being fired then he should have got a lawyer and to the LAPD to court not go on a shooting rampage kill fellow officers. He did nothing to help his case or get attention brought to the coruption in the LAPD. I personal don't trust most police anymore there more corupt than the crooks these days. It seem like city after city has issues with rogue police doing what they want and getting away with it. LA no different, I heard what was said on the video and for the Chief to say they didn't intentionally burn it down is nothing short of a lie. It's right on video officers saying "burn the ........ down" is he a idiot to stand in front of news camera's and say they didn't intentionally do that. If I lived in LA I would be demanding he step down from his position as head of the police department.
@Eleanora:
Yeah, then he was shot the next day, while two cops held him - one on each side. Oswald didn't kill Kennedy.
Let's see...
200 folks, eh.
Ahhh, if one were to count the Ku Klux Klan, Skin Heads, and those off their meds....
YEP! .. That would just about add up to 200!
Jus' say'n! :)
Dorner lost all creditability when he took the live of the innocent people he killed; LAPD lost all credibility when they opened fire on the two lady's delivering newspaper; ATF lost all credibility when they called in Army Tanks at Waco, in violation of the Posse Comatitus law; America is losing credibility when they authorize killings by drone strikes against American citizens who they believe may pose a threat to the peace and security of the Government; Congress is losing all creditability ,(as reprenative of the people) for failing in their duty to rein in rogue elements of our vast security forces; America is losing creditability throughout the world for its failure to end the nightmare war in Afghanistan. GOD HELP US.
Why was this collapsed? There are over 40 comments under this one reply to Applejacks.
He needs his name cleared. Right after we clear Hitler's name who was only standing up for a better balanced economic society. Thanks for the laugh California!
This is a case of two sides cancelling each other out. I do believe Dorner's charges of corruption are true. He had a legitimate beef, but he lost any "vigilante hero" status when he killed two persons who only happened to be related to one of the "bad" guys. To have full vigilante status a-la-Clint Eastwood, he would have had to strictly kill the baddest egg. Any other persons killed would only be due to exchange of gunfire in a firefight. Because of the way he did it, he cancelled himself out as to any clearing-good-name status. His name will never be good. So, what we have here is two wrongs not equaling a right. I would therefore not join this bunch of protesters.
I remember several years ago reading the Unibomber's manifesto. It was smart and well-written much like Dorner's, except that it was more ideological. It was in the Washington Post, and I happened to be in that city at that time so I was able to read it. But again, the Unibomber lost a certain credibility because he killed people who were innocent.
Think of all the vigilante movies that you may have seen over the years from "Rambo First Blood" to "Outlaw Jose Wales". Notice the film writers know what their hero can and can't do as a vigilante. They can only kill bad guys, or if they kill others it is only ones who chase after them. Funny, Unibomber and Dorner did not know what film writers know. Why is that?
You Dorner supporters are out in space. Dorner was never going to surrender. He willingly killed those people with intent. He was mentally deranged. Being able to write well had nothing to do with mental status.
Here are direct quotes from his manifesto.
"From: Christopher Jordan Dorner /7648
To: America
Subj: Last resort
Regarding CF# 07-‐004281
I know most of you who personally know me are in disbelief to hearfrom media reports that I am suspected of committing such horrendous murders and have taken drastic and shocking actions in the last couple of days. You are saying to yourself that this is completely out of character of the man you knew who always wore a smile wherever he was seen.I know I will be villified by the LAPD and the media. Unfortunately, this is a necessary evil that I do not enjoy but must partake and complete for substantial change to occur within the LAPD and reclaim my name."
"I will conduct DA operations to destroy, exploit and seize designated targets.If unsuccessful or unable to meet objectives in these initial small scale offensive actions, I will reassess my BDA and re‐attack until objectives are met.I have nothing to lose. My personal casualty means nothing.Just alike AAF’s, ACM’s, and AIF’s, you can not prevail against an enemy combatant who has no fear of death. An enemy who embraces death is a lose,lose situation for their enemy combatants."
He also wrote, "Self Preservation is no longer important to me. I do not fear death as I died long ago on 1/2/09. I was told by my mother that sometimes bad things happen to good people. I refuse to accept that."
In his own words, he's admitted to being just another disgruntled worker who lost his job, and took it out on others who worked there.
You all want to see gun control, but you're okay with Dorner murdering people because you like his reasons. That's just sick.
His name should not be cleared. He murdered people over a work dispute. It's not okay for Postal Workers, or private sector employees and it's not "okay" for him. He confessed his heinous acts in this document and his name should remain in a criminal file.
As for you Dorner advocates, you disgust me.
He MIGHT have gotten some sympathy -- and credibility -- if he hadn't KILLED people! No matter WHY he was fired from the LAPD .... no excuse for murder.
Right on. This is, and always was, a case of a human being that couldn't handle what life threw at him and he crashed. Plain and simple. His personal and emotional problems started long before he joined the LAPD. That's not to say that the LAPD doesn't have their problems, but that's not what caused this guy's problems. The straw, maybe....but not the cause.
So Captn Curtass, it appears that life needs to throw more crap your way in order to help you better understand. Because right now, you look pretty dumb and self-righteous.
Beth,
If he hadn't killed people nobody would have paid attention to his grievance. Not saying I condone the method he used to bring attention to the corruption that infests the LAPD and city government.
He tried to expose misconduct the proper way and it didn't work. Without killing anyone this would have never gotten out to the public eye and things would continue to happen that is not right or fair. Human lives are a casualty of war. His war was to bring the injustice to everyones attention in hopes to initiate change. Change takes drastic measures sometimes. Police officers are not above the law and they shouldn't get away with misconduct. Seeing that people are reacting he accomplished his goal. I hope we get a movie out of this one and a fair take on what this was really all about, his dignity and how even a good sane man can snap. Like he said, his depression played a significant role in driving him to this point. It's a monster of a disease and he just couldn't fight it any longer. I hope he didn't die in vain...I hope change comes.
Mr. Dorner was pushed over the edge. I read a book one time that said even the most quiet, kind, nice person can be pushed over the edge. I have actually been a witness to it. I think Mr. Dorner was telling the truth but no one believed him until it was too late. Yes, he would have had to pay for the people he killed. As the LAPD has been quoted, "they are a family and take care of their own." There has been a lot of things that have gone on in the police department that gets covered up and that means even banning together to harass a fellow officer just because of his skin, his rightful thinking, etc. This was a hanous way of killing Mr. Dorner and what is done in the dark always comes out in the light. The two women who were bullet ridden in their truck while delivering papers says a lot. The police didn't even think to check the license plate, they just started shooting. I hope the families of these two women "the one that died and the one that lived" sue the police department for millions and millions. We had three breakins at the apt complex where I live and the police could care less. I know because my things were stolen and they weren't going to do write a report unless it was over $500. So go figure. I was even stopped one time in my younger years by a policeman and when he came to my window, I said I hadn't done anything and his response was "that is correct, I stopped you because you were cute." What a bunch of crap.
Well casualty of war... Humm think about that.... Seems very easy for you to say that when its not your mother or father or child or even anyone in you inner circle or even outter circle of friends... wth are you talking about??? The guy just simply snapped because he didnt get his way. He choose the wrong way to deal with his personal situation... Killing people isnt the answer to clearing his name or getting his job back... It was only get back at the people he blamed for losing his job........... period
His likely legitimate complaint was lost in a manifesto that was, in all objectivity, bafflingly immature. Oh yeah, and there was that little issue of cold blooded murder of two officers that had nothing to do with his issues and two other innocent people. He was a cold-blooded killer, and better off dead. Defending him as a martyr says much worse about you protesters than anything he once complained about.
amen to that will.....
One more thing...I'm certain that 99 percent of all law enforcement officers would be proud and grateful if any civilian ever took the time to genuinely thank them for what they do. To hold them in contempt when most of you have never addressed one outside a speeding ticket is the height of ignorance, hypocrisy and cruelty. Show some appreciation and respect- they are human beings doing a yes, thankless, job.
Just to make certain I understand correctly...
If I don't agree with some of these posts, and I am depressed about some of these posts, and I can't get anyone to sympathize with the fact that I don't like some of these posts, and I am unsuccessful in shedding a light on what is wrong with some of these posts, then I am justified in tracking you down and killing your children? And then claim that their deaths are a casualty of war?
Just want to make sure I'm clear on where the line is drawn on what is and isn't justifiable...
How is being "depressed about some posts" akin to being railroaded out of your career by a corrupt organization for exposing their corruption? I'm not saying Dorner had the right to kill anyone either, but your analogy is stupid, sorry.
Wow Scott! you have some issues that need addressed! And no, I don't support killing of this kind, "At ALL" he wan't cop suicide, period! I am more focused on Jodi Arias trial at this point! Dorner did what he did and got what he wanted, done deal...move on!
Tamara2141147:
You are one psycho freak!
Ellis- you don't fool me for a second- you are part of the problem. You say you don't condone it but here you are explaining it for all of us simpletons.
The man was unbalanced and evil- whatever took place before that matters nothing to me because his credibility is zero. I am from Southern California and the LAPD is a joke.
Credibility- still zero.
Tamara- I hope law enforcement visits you for your freakish comments. We completely understand who and what you are. kelatzer@msn.com you go after Scott but not Tamara? We know what you are too. (Nice grammar BTW)
kelatzer- you missed my point entirely.. try rereading with an ironic tone in your head...
leroy brown- perhaps. I'm trying to find out where some, such as Tamara, draw the line between murder and justice. Obviously she equates losing one's job and the killing of someone's child. Apparently losing a career is equitable to losing an uninvolved child to her. So, where does the line get drawn for some? Let's say my car stalled, causing someone to be late for work, and they were fired because of it. Would justice in that case include killing my child for not maintaining my car properly?
Perhaps my analogy is stupid... but so the simple statement that someone being "railroaded" out of a career some makes it more reasonable to commit murder. You're absolutely correct... offensive posts are ridiculously unequal to losing a job. And losing a job is ridiculously unequal to taking the life of someone's child as a means of revenge. And that was my point.
If he would have stayed in the 2 places a black man aka the nig which is under the heel of a white mans boot or in the pen with the rest of his primate friends.
Like I said "I'm NOT, notice the word "NOT." One more time now-NOT saying Dorner had the right to kill anyone. Every time anyone shows any understanding at all for Dorner's plight they get accused of condoning his killings. The LAPD are nothing but a gang of thugs and Dorner has put a spotlight on them. Rather ironic that while looking for the man accusing them of being corrupt and incompetent the cops shoot up that truck that didn't even match the description of the one they were looking for in their desperation to kill Dorner on sight.
leroy. the problem with some people's beliefs and yours is it's based solely on his sel serving manifesto. There is no other evidence that supports his claim. As a matter of fact if you would bother to read his own testimony in his appeals hearing it tells a whole different story.
It's much easier to explain his actions by blaming an organization (LAPD) then to simply look at the facts and say this guy just wasn't all there. He couldn't handle failure and he believed it had to be someone elses fault.
Amazing. The monster kills five people or was it six and you have people with nothing better to do with their lives than waste them "caring" about whether his good name is recovered? UNBELIEVABLE - ALMOST - of course we talking California.
Dorner got exactly what he deserved; only possible real regret is that it was too bad it couldn't have happened earlier and thereby have spared the life of the last man he murdered as well as the suffering of the other man he wounded. Dorner was an incredibly self-center, disgusting individual who had abrogated any right to anyone caring about his "good name"- he proved, by his actions that he had no clue about honor nor the right to life of other people. He saw others as merely pawns in his deluded, insane game to be used as he saw fit irrespective of the horror he caused or whom he hurt in the process. A rabid dog deserves more sympathy - at least it is being driven to its madness by rabies - Dorner simply acted like a rabid dog without the benefit of any genuine "excuse".
Good riddance. His death at least saved the money it would have cost prosecuting him and then incarcerating him through 15 years of appeals on the death row.
At the end of the day, Dorner was a murderer. He might have been trying to right a wrong, but he became worse than the people he was seeking revenge against.
Dorner had a self-destructive and immature way of addressing his grievances. Maybe, just maybe, that's why he was fired from the LAPD in the first place.
clearday you are spot on ! you said it all !
The first time I ever heard of Dormer was when he began hunting down people on his hit list. He put his name out as a pre-meditated murderer. We all define ourselves, our "names."
If the protesters were shot we would not has to listen to them, easy to support and comment when your not the victim.
Or if the protesters had a family member killed i think they WOULD feel differently.
Like Hillary said about benghazi " what difference does it make now " who cares about Dorner except his mother ?
Who gives a rats behind. Go peddle your worthless products elsewhere!
Dorner crossed the line between lawman and lawbreaker when he pulled the trigger on his first victim and there is absolutely nothing that can justify or change his actions!
It is a tragedy when an honest person is wronged for trying to do a good deed. It is equally wrong when a person takes revenge AND ADVERTISES it for everyone to see. Mr Dorner had a bad experiance with his job as a cop, a terrible experiance because he tried to expose corruption, but as a cop he did know he needed PROOF OF HIS ALLEGATIONS and it was his responsibility to gather that proof. He may have been railroaded while exposing the corruption, he certainly was punished for doing just that, but THERE WAS NO REASON TO GIVE HIS ENEMY'S THE INFORMATION THEY NEEDED TO "DO THEIR JOB". The cops "did their job", it may have been to silence him, but one thing is for certain, if you kill a cop you will be killed in return ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU TELL THEM IN ADVANCE THAT THEY WILL NOT TAKE YOU ALIVE. Mr Dorner is gone, he will be forgotten by the public, the cops will continue to be public servants with some being corrupt just like every other facet of our society and we will all go back to being selfish, greedy, ignorant sheep again. Mr Dorner chose to die, will something mean more to you than your life, ONLY IF YOUR LIFE MEANS NOTHING TO YOU AND ALL YOU KNOW.
This is what happens in the "everyone gets a trophy" society which we have created. You get a bunch of mentally obtuse people who can't accept failure and place blame on anything (or everyone) other than themselves. To top it off, they have a support base of more mental midgets (to include national media pundits) who cry foul with absolutely no merit of evidence. Congratulations liberals, you have mutated our society to nation of weak minded fools who take no blame for their own actions and cannot adapt to life’s harsh lessons.
Plain and simple, the LAPD and every law enforcement organisation needs to take these protestors seriously and record each and everyone of their names. You never know what other nutcase is going to either pull a copycat killing or some other form of justification in their warped minds for venge killings.
I can't help but wonder why the military never caught on to the psycho instead of training and possibly arming Dorner.
He was nothing but a disgruntled employee, and a savage, he killed innocent people and police officers he once served, he deserved the ending he received and does not deserve any sympathy, rot in hell you scum bag.
Some of you seem to think this is a left/right issue. Funny how conservatives love to hold up the 2nd Amendment as if it were a God-given right. They boldly state that they need their guns to protect them from our tyrannical government. And should the latter try to take those guns away, it will be from their dead hands. However, when an individual stands up to wrong and injustice with his guns, he and his supporters are leftist idiots. Why? Because the man wrote that we need sensible gun regulations?
The LAPD has a long history of racism and violence. The man witnessed it and tried to address it. Instead of rewarding him, the LAPD punished him. After several years without redress, Dorner took matters into his own hands because he lost not only his job, but his commission in the naval reserves as well, if I'm not mistaken.
What is wrong with a system that rewards crooks but punishes the good guys. In this country bankers cheat, lie and steal, but only get fined because they are "too big too fail". Whistleblowers get prosecuted and sentenced but torturers go about their daily lives. Crooked cops go on being criminals with badges but millions are deemed criminal because they smoke, a weed that has been arbitrarily made illegal.
What do the so-called conservatives in this country favor Golliath over David?
Just as this was happening in California, New York prosecutors had to reverse the convictions of hundreds of inncocent people. Why? Because the prosecutors discovered that policemen lied (God forbid) under oath or planted evidence on innocent folks, mostly folks of color I may add, repeatedly. And what prompts these buttholes to lie or plan evidence? Money for one. The federal government rewards local law enforcement with money for drug busts. Isn't that nice to know.
Stop watching FOX News you fake patriots, you self-righteous baboons, Stomp priding yourself in your ignorance. Open your eyes and see that the mainstream media is not liberal claimed on talk radio or at Fox. The mainstream media represents the plutocrats that have been robbing you and sodomizing you at the same time they turn you delude you with issues considered left vs. right.
Google Brian Bentley and learn something for a change. He wrote a book on the subject of LAPD racism and violence. He's a former LAPD officer. He was fired for writing a book on the subject.
://www.amazon.com/One-Time-Central-Angeles-Officer/dp/1890632007/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360716099&sr=8-1&keywords=One+Time%3A+The+Story+of+One+South+Central+Los+Angeles+Police+Officer
These protestors all have to be democrats
Hardly. Don't you recognize your own family members?
For the ones of you that have already forgotten, those cops, stupid idiots, shot two innocent people, to ignorant to see a license plate, also the fact that they were looking for a guy. Also, it was reported that his driver's license was left where he tried to steal a boat, once again, his driver's license was found at the cabin. How many did he have? A body was burned in a cabin that was completely disintegrated but a driver's license remained in tact. The point was "Dead Men Don't Talk". This department has been corrupt for as long as I can remember and it's not going to change. I don't agree with murder, the murder by the police or Christopher Dormer but I do think his firing was something that should be investigated. I had trouble beleiving he was fired for reporting police brutality, excess force as was reported. I would like to know if the firing was racially motivated.
We all feel bad for a professional who worked hard to get hired by the PD, went thru training and worked the street, only to get fired for what may have be unjustified, and perhaps a cover up by the LAPD. There are many lawyers who would have helped him pro bono to bring justice to light and clear his name. The fact remains that he decided to become the jury, judge and executioner all by himself. He took the lives of also hard working neighbors and friends with families. It was not and eye for an eye. It was a senseless spree of killing. This will never outwieght the good he once did. Violence and killing does nothing to equalize the pain afflicted. He ended his life and others in a cowardly way. Everyone has a right to defend and be defended. This also means we help defend the offciers who protect us daily. The only way we can survive is to come togther and work together. Not violence against each other. We ALL fail then. Remember, when you are in a serious emergency and you dial 911, who responds to be the first to help you !!! It's not the anti-police posters on this page. It's the real first responders risking their life to save you .........................I am not an officer, but I am someone who has been in a serious 911 and was saved!! I understand how it really works now.
o.k. for the most part, public union workers are democrats. Police are the most pro union and therefore pro democrats of all public unions. So there is a political element to this story.
Back during the campaign, a group of black activists in Chicago did a video explaining that unions in Chicago would not let in blacks. They further went to say that the democrats only say they support equal rights, but they look the other way once they take their share of the pie. So like Jesse Jackson stealing 770,000, this sort of stuff goes on with the democrat political party even though they insist they are virtuous. Power corrupts. It doesn't have a gender, or race or party in mind. So if democrats are in control they will over use their power and eventually pollute the government, and the same for republicans.
My experience with police has never been good. It has been strange to downright awful. I feel for their job because they are being asked all the time to come into issues that are heightened with emotion etc. I have been friends with police officers that started out with the idea they would be helpful to citizens etc, only within a year to be callous. I understand why. However if you are the victim it feels really bad to deal with an officer that is aloof and often hardened to the situation.
Racism, prejudice, whatever you want to call it, is in all aspects of life. This notion that only whites can be racists is in itself a racist POV. The distrust and hate goes both ways.
What kills my sympathy for Dorner is the fact that he killed people that had noting to do with his fight. His actions were thus evil. If he wanted revenge then strike at only those he felt were racist or those that blackened his name, or stood in the way of justice.
The open fire on those women does point out a very out of control police mentality in LA which I am not the least surprised about. It makes no sense to me since I would think protocols are in place no matter the circumstances. They had time to follow the rules. They chose not to.
Lastly, government will always grab more and more power if citizens are willing to give up their rights. Right now citizens are laying down and letting government take over and take over they will. We are now being told what we can eat, the guns we can own, how we deal with our children, and if we have the right to end our own life. Each generation can see rights taken all the time. The problem is that each generation has a different starting point and thus have no idea how many rights we once had.
WOW....just WOW.
Some folks are making cold bloodied killers IDOLS.
Yep, the U.S. is going down the path of Rome.....lose morals then lose your country.
You know I remember another man who wrote a manifesto once. We had no problem sending him to jail for the rest of his life. We also rated his manifesto as a lunatic ranting, nothing more. Christopher Dorner followed the lead of someone else and you are getting all goo-goo eyes for him. The difference here is we are talking about a Law Enforcement community alone and not all of us as a nation. Seems to me that there are a bunch of people here who will stand up and defend a mad man when they are not listed as one of the offenders. I remember the first because I at one point in time had contact with him. He seemed odd and different at the time. I am sure I would have felt the same about Mr. Dorner. For those of you who don't remember, the first was Ted Kaczynski. He mailed bombs to people who were for modern technology and specifically targeted Universities and airlines. Entities that really had nothing to do with why he started the bombing to begin with.
So the Occupy Wall Streeters have found a hero in a four-time-murderer.
Those Leftists never cease to amaze me!!
I hope the LA Ploice department has cameras following these protestors. The next nut with a Gun will be in the crowd.
Dorner was a murderer.
Cause and effect....
Is it true that he was unjustly fired to cover up illegal and immoral actions within the LAPD? There has been so enough attention given to the LAPD over the last year or so that a Federal Justice Department investigation is warranted into their actions, with the investigation being conducted open to the public eye.
Dorner was a murderer, his actions were totally wrong, but they brought to the forefront the fact that people with nothing to lose will not hesitate to take whatever they can that others hold most dear.
And without a doubt, all across the country, law enforcement officers are walking away from too many unexplained suspect deaths, and getting a pass on too many acts of malfeasance.
Why don't we make Dorner's birthday a national holiday and put him on the five dollar bill?
VediProverbi16:11- Lost somewhere in your muddle of racist cops and lost jobs and insinuation that somehow, somehow this might be explainable, you seem to overlook one simple fact that erases any possible thread of rational argument that Dorner might have possible had... he killed people. Not just cops trying to apprehend him, who, in some people's twisted view of justice might in some sick, bizarre way seem justified, but he also killed 2 innocent people.. Two people who had absolutely nothing to do with any of his problems, issues, or complaints.
Monica Quan and Kieth Lawrence had nothing to do with Dorner. Nothing to do with any grievance he may have possible had. Nothing in the slightest, other than Monica happened to be the child of the police Captain that represented Dorner. She didn't fire him. She wasn't part of some corrupt system that conspired to cost Dorner his career. She was nothing more than the young daughter of a man that Dorner had a grudge against. And Keith Lawrence had even less connection than that.. he was simply Monica's fiance. And yet Dorner researched them, stalked them, and then shot them. Why? Because he wanted revenge against a police Captain. Two young people who had never even heard of Chris Dorner, gunned down for no other reason than because a man was angry.
VediProverb, this wasn't some sort of case of an " individual stands up to wrong and injustice with his guns". This was murder. Plain and simple. You should be ashamed for trying to make anything more of it than that.
Beautifully put Scott.
VediProverbi16:11 How horribly does someone have to act; what do they have to do for you not to come to their defense to try to find some kind of justification - regardless of how innane and spurious it may be - for their wanton, murderous actions?
Racism and corruption is neither a unique characteristic of nor one routinely found within the LA Police Department; it is something that raises its hoary head regularly in all areas of society and human endeavor.
The measure of a human being is how they react to adversity; not how many people they can hurt, maim and kill when things don't go their way; whether the "wrongs" were real or not, nothing justified the monstrous actions of Dorner. Nothing.
I couldn't agree with Scott's assessment of your comment more if I tried.
VediProverbi16:11
got smacked down pretty good. Thanks guys.
He needs his name cleared. Right after we clear Hitler's name who was only standing up for a better balanced economic society. Thanks for the laugh California!
Gumps- even if I had any family members left they'd have a lot more class than you & yours obviously do. Nobody ever walked the streets to make a living in my house either. Have a joyful day!
I don't know about the rest of you but I am so sick of this bullcrap of "wez black and our ancestors was slaves so we should get a pass for anything we do including murder". BS, there have been decades and billions wasted giving people who don't now how to use it more advantages in starting out than any of the rest of us or the immigrants that came here ever got. Enough already. No more pouring money down a rat hole. Everyone needs to be finally equal in that they have to earn thier own way just like everyone else did. No more pity parties, holding hands and throwing good money after bad.
cdahl Actually right after we clear Hitler's name we have to start working on clearing Stalin's name; he outdid Hitler you know - murdered 30,000,000 of his own people give or take a million here or there.
Shaking my head-2479300 If there was one good thing, and I have counting too many more than that frankly, that came with Obama being elected not once, but unbelievably despite a total lack of accomplishments worthy of note, it was that it removed forever the plaintive plea that because I'm black I need affirmative action to give the job someone more qualified I ever will be should have gotten. Yeah, I want someone as an air traffic controller who was a third or fourth runner up to the guy who was really, really sharp as a tack landing my plane don't you?
Oh, and the other good thing about Obama being elected as a black man is that it finally eliminated any need to give the slightest credence to the two biggest glory hounds ever seen and who never saw a headline they didn't want a piece of - Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Maybe finally we can do without their endless wailing about how they actually are serving a useful purpose and still (if they ever were) needed to help right the sins of the evil white man that were visited on African American.
Incidentally, I have three boys as dark skinned (or darker) than Sharpton or Jackson; so don't even about calling me a racist!
It is time people started realizing you can stand on your own, but first, you have make the effort to actually stand up on your own!
WOW! I absolutely cannot BELIEVE how many of you on this thread have tried to JUSTIFY -- in any way, shape or form -- this guys actions. You cannot justify MURDER. Plain and simple.
I don't care WHAT happened to this guy. He KILLED innocent people. There is no excuse. If he was wronged, there are methods to address it.
And, btw, this is not a political "liberal" vs "conservative" issue ... murder is murder.
The Dorner case is by far the most extreme example of cop vs. cop violence seen to date. Not sure what the race claim is about as most LAPD are nonwhite. Race probably played some part in the overall volatile chemistry that generated this outcome. But there are probably numerous factors involved that should be looked at and analyzed on an impartial basis. I recognize that LAPD is evolving. That evolution should ensure that this is an aberration as opposed to a harbinger of even worse things to come.
I also cannot believe there are people who are saying it was okay for Dorner to kill those individuals because of what happened to him. Wonder if these same people would say that what happened at Columbine High was justified since both of those muderers had been bullied by their fellow students. They had a manifesto also and felt that they had been treated unfairly.
The man was a homicidal maniac who should have been locked up BEFORE he killed anybody. Talk about someone who shouldn't have had a gun! This ANIMAL killed and unlawfully restrained people in the name of calling attention to himself.
Here's a hint for you;.....Good cops don't protest police brutality and corruption by going on a killing spree.
This guy formulated his own plan and went through with it. Very simple, he made "his own name". It is as he wished. Send these losers to Iraq, they're running low on space monkeys.
My Dad fought Nazis in Italy during World War II in the 10th Mountain division so that Americans could exercise their freedom's,this being freedom of speech.Maybe if people who had arms would have shot the Nazis that came storming into their homes there would not have been a Holocaust.These people are peacefully demonstrating against the LAPD and their known brutality.I will stand behind them and defend their right to peacefully demonstrate.I'm surprised that they couldn't get more people to demonstrate with them.I am equally shocked that the people in Torrance aren't doing the same thing.I'm not on Dorners side but these cops are out of control.
Look you dumb ass protesters, this @!$%#er was a cop killer and a @!$%#ing coward!! Wake up and smell reality!!!! Damn idiots!!!!
I'm fine with cop killing. Police are not your friend! They are sick, sick individuals who believe themselves to be better than other people, and therefore capable of performing such heinous actions as placing citizens under arrested.
your a df
What a ridiculous thing to say. Unless, of course, you are some little non-conformist or gang-banger puke.
defcon, if someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, who are you going to call? That's right, the police, a-hole. And they'll come and protect you regardless of your stupid opinion. Sure there are bad cops, guess what, there are bad bankers and bad store clerks and bad street sweepers too. No profession turns human beings into angels.You should be thankful there are officers out there willing to risk their lives to protect you.
nah, defcon is prob an oakland rockthrower
defcon54321
It's sad that you'd wish death upon anyone. You just showed what kind of an individual you are. You are no better then any bad cop.
defcon prolly has a red or blue bandanna as part of his "business" attire.
Murse13, you sound like an adolescent punk with a fetish for cops. You are suffering from a severe lack of life-experience. Therefore, I hope that you, just like those two women were shot by a half-dozen idiot cops who were clearly trying to murder Dorner, are also shot by cops (case of mistaken identity?) and spend some time in the hospital in critical condition. Then let's see how well you defend those pigs, assuming you live through it. I am always amazed at the morons who blindly defend the police in light of the mountains of police brutality, violence, and trigger-happy evidence. I mean, you're either an adolescent punk or a trigger-happy cop trying desperately to generate some support for your murderous brotherhood of jack-boot thugs.
murse,
The real cowards were the six cops that ambushed and shot in the back the old newspaper delivery lady without identifying themselves or giving her and her daughter, or the surfer guy in another vehicle a chance to identify themselves or surrender.
The real cowards were the 100 police officers and SWAT team that stood behind the armored battering ram yelling, "Burn mother*^#er burn" as they torched and bulldozed the cabin Dorner was in.
Even though Dorner snapped and chose a foolish destiny, I still have respect for the guys ethical standards, he was firm on his targets and did not want to harm others........Doner would have had a much better chance of escaping if he had not allowed the couple who owned the cabin he was hiding in, or the guy who owned the truck he hijacked to live, but he did............Maybe Dorner's problem from the start was his ethical standards were just too high for him to fit into the LAPD mob family........Too bad
Ellis,
That was 200 cops surrounding the cabin.
@MURSE it is very disrespectful to call everyone on this forum idiots and etc. if you are a cop are you on OT today.....? sound like you are very hurt about all comments .....But do not forget "KELLY THOMAS " came to real light ,for everyone to see ......I was there and saw it, from that point on LAPD will not get any respect from me or anyone in my circle ,still traumatized to this day .
Bambi good grief the comment was directed at protesters-hurt? ....word.
Wow, if the remarks on here don't draw you a picture of how the warped mind of some on the left works, nothing will. To them "The End Does Justify the Means" and that was a quote by Bill Clinton while he was in office.
Ellis Baumgarner
"I still have respect for the guys ethical standards, he was firm on his targets and did not want to harm others..."
His murdering the Captains daughter and her fiance was perfectly acceptable to you? How were they involved with what happened with his job?
When someone resorts to murder to resolve personal complaints, they deserve no respect or understanding at that point.
Murder is never ok from law enforcement or anyone
"I still have respect for the guys ethical standards, he was firm on his targets and did not want to harm others..."
You have respect for the ethical standards of the man who openly declared his intention to murder the families of everyone involved in a hearing that didn't go his way? Seriously? "Hey, who cares that he murdered four people who had nothing to do with the alleged racism, he still has ethical standards because those four innocent people murdered were tangentially related to an alleged injustice that got him fired. The guy's practically a saint!" -.-
It amazes me how murder can be increasingly seen by some to be an unfortunate, but legitimate manifestation form of expressing displeasure if you think you've been wronged.
I'm all for strict institutional accountability. If I were a resident of the area, I'd expect my local officials and law enforcement to conduct a sweeping investigation into this incident. However, this isn't the time to make a stand on issues of police brutality. Not in this guy's name - a man who premeditated the murder of innocents in the name of avenging perceived wrongs inflicted on him. Demented.
What is more disturbing and ironic is that it is coming from the same political-social side of the house that is advocating the 2nd amendment be eradicated?
What is even more disturbing is that fact that no one actually wants the 2nd amendment eradicated. They do however want more accountability for those who do own guns. Why do so many of you want to change this into a political issue. This is about an individual who went too far, caused the deaths of many people and paid for his mental issues with his own death. This is not political it is a mental health issue.
To say they wanted to "clear his name" is simply ridiculous. Now maybe his firing wasn't justified and if they want to somehow try to clear that up, fine. But clearly this guy destroyed any possibility by his actions. In fact because he reacted the way he did just suggests that his getting fired was probably the correct decision.
The fact is that this guy didn't have a "name" in virtually anybody's eyes until he started killing people. So he created the name they are trying to clear. Dorner said to the people who's car he stole that he "was trying to clear his name" too. Pretty stupid way he picked to do it.
There may have been a real worthwhile story in what happened to him and maybe he was railroaded when they fired him, but it just can't justify his attempts to "right that wrong." I have little doubt that they deliberately torched the cabin after hearing the police radio traffic and the on scene recordings from the one reporter who was right there. They really ought not be denying it. But Dorner brought that on himself. He made the decision to not be taken alive. It matters little if he died at his own hand or not. I find it hard to believe, with all the gunfire exchanged, that he wasn't already seriously wounded. He ultimately got what was coming to him.
A tragedy yes, but he's to blame for what ultimately happened.
@1 New Day ,it is ironic how people will go awry about politics in this matter and not view that this guy had a mental issue problems and not fixed .WHY LAPD did not see that coming ,but just toss him on the side of the road ,into society knowing what could be next .I'm sure he did not parade when he got (his job)out to the door .Knowing this guys once served in combat (defend our country) let's get him some help /probation until his life gets somehow to normal and than offer him a job ,again once he was valuable person .......I'm not supporting his revenge ,but in his mind that was the only way he could be heard .Very selfish for some to call others" idiots "that think from their own perspective and compassion for MENTAL ILLNESS .Just like drug problems ....until IT gets recognized it cannot be fixed .
I think it is important to remember that he waited 4 years to take this action. He did not just "snap" after being fired, he schemed and planed for four years to have his revenge.
He is absolutely the only one responsible for what transpired, and he lost all credibility when he murdered innocent people (Qwan and Fiance).
I hate to break this to you Robert, but with all due respect, there are a lot of people who would like to see the 2nd Amendment gone, they just can't say it, YET.....
I'm not saying its a majority, but its a significant number. They've realized that slowly chipping away at it, and saying "well, that didn't work, let's try some more laws" is the only thing most people will accept.
They need a few more tragic events to push the weak minded into conceding their rights.
I don't believe that ALL the politicians who say they don't want to get rid of 2A... Some of them are outright lying.
Bambi,
I understand your point, but who can predict that someone stewing about an issue for four years might eventually go off the deep end?
The thing is too, that many people that need help, don't want it. Dorner did not want to let go of this issue. He still claimed just hours before his death that he was only trying to clear his name. People can't get helped unless they want to be helped. Could Dorner have been helped and multiple lives have been saved? Maybe. We would all like to think that things like this could be prevented, but I'm not sure that isn't just wishful thinking. Maybe Dorner wasn't completely to blame for what started all this years ago, but obviously, he just couldn't let it go and move on. It seems pretty clear that he didn't want to let it go. In that regard, it is all on him.
I think that most of you are missing the point.It's not the fact of why they are demonstrating.It is the fact that they can peacefully demonstrate in front of the LAPD in Los Angeles California.They are Americans and it is their right to do so.I commend them for exercising their American born right to exercise their freedom of speech.Whether anybody agrees with why they are demonstrating is a moot point.
Just because you are exercising a right while you do it doesn't mean that it is something to be commended. Would you commend WBC for picketing funerals with signs that say "God Hates F-gs" and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers"? After all, they are "exercising their American born right to exercise their freedom of speech". While that right must be protected, that in no way means that it has to commended each and every time that someone uses it. There are times when people use their freedoms for really messed up things, and at those time other people have the right to criticize, call them out, and publicly condemn what they are spreading through the freedoms. While the content is moot to the legality of the speech (assuming it is not vulgar or constitutes "fighting words" or a clear and present danger), it is quite relevant as to how people should react and respond to it in their personal speech and attitudes.
Clear his name??? OK--Donner="CLEAR"ly a mental case that certainly wasn't the bad-ass he tried to portray himself as. A total loser in everything he attempted. Glad he's dead---just wished he would have burned to death slowly, instead of taking the coward's way out! But, hey, he was a coward!!!
I hate to tell you this but Dorner was not as you put it, a mental case. He knew exactly what he was doing and he was well aware of the consequences of his actions. That doesn't mean I agree with what he did, but I also don't agree with how the police handled the situation. something stinks here and we may never know the real truth. The police burned the cabin down by accident ... my ass. there was no way Dorner was coming out of that cabin alive, the police were going to make sure of that. they were going to make sure he was dead to save their own asses, period ... Do I know that for sure? no, nobody does, except the people who were directly involved. What I do know is that anyone that posts on here was not directly involved. that being said, something is going on in the LAPD that they didn't want Dorner to share with the rest of the world, at least that's what it sounds like to me ... that does NOT mean I agree with how Dorner went about it, but hopefully this incident will expose the LAPD ... probably not though ...
My opinion is that once Dorner crossed the line of becoming a murderer, all bets are off. This animal needed to be put down any way possible. There are over 600 on death row here in California--don't need anymore! Executions are at a stand-still. 30-40 years of appeals and the cost of housing these criminals is insane. There are even allowed to "get married" while the tax payer gets to foot the bill for this vermin!
joedst... just because one is calculated and knows the consequences does not indicate one is not "crazy" or insane by any standard. Take any given serial killer in history. They know what they are doing. They are very smart, very calculated in what they do, and know what they do carries consequences.
Getting caught is a risk they are willing to take in order to do what they must do, just like Dorner the dead door-nail.
Bud,
Dorner was bad-ass enough to have the southern Cal cops pissing their pants at every sound and shooting at everything that moved........Hell, the SWAT team wanted no part of Dorner, they stood behind the armored battery ram and yelled, "burn mother*#@*er burn as they torched the cabin..........The LAPD hierarchy were so terrified one commander said he did not step out of his heavily guarded house for six days. ......Wait for the movie
Ellis, your an idiot!
Ellis is too stupid to be an idiot.
mike-2598123 makes some good points. Dorner was a noted Obama supporter and anti-gun person. What the liberals hate is most of the killers that make the news are all left wing nut jobs. The truth really hurts Mike.
For the people wanting to clear his name....speaks loads to the liberal ideals that they hold.
Hey Bud Jones, from the sound of your post, you must either be a cop (pig) or an apologist parroting the party line. Either way, you are part of the problem, not the solution. In any war, there are going to be casualties. Dorner declared war on the LAPD for what they did to him. Everybody has a point at which they cannot be pushed beyond. And that includes parasites like you. Sadly, Dorner was pushed too far and he reacted. Yes, he appears to have killed the daughter of a retired police Captain (official). And she was innocent. Yet, that is exactly what I would do if I wanted to make the old man suffer.
Seriously, if Dorner was more like Rambo (First Blood), the LAPD would have gotten exactly what they deserve. And although part of me wished for that bloody outcome, the other more wise part of me sees the end from the beginning. Hence, I know that Dorner could not have killed enough people to fix the problem. Nobody can. It is important that we choose our battles carefully and only go to war when it makes sense and we are willing to lose it all. In the vast majority of cases, such as Dorner's, the wise choice would be to cut your losses and move on.
Paul, you clearly don't remember First Blood very well, do you? First off, the character is suffering a psychotic break as the result of unlawful arrest and torture at the hands of the local police, and every action he takes is him attempting to simply flee the situation while they pursue him. That's significantly different from deciding to start gunning people down four years after being fired in a manner you think was unfair. Secondly, if you are referring to the movie, you should note that Rambo doesn't kill a single person. The only casualty in the entire film is the one officer who falls from the police helicopter while trying to line up an illegal and illadvised shot on him. If you are referring to the novel, then yes, many officers die, but Rambo is also not some hero, but rather a broken, suicidal wreck of a man who longs for death so that he can have a fitting end, but hesitant to kill himself out of shame. By that point he is not fighting for a noble cause or goal, he doesn't believe his actions justified, he's just so far over the edge that he can never recover.
Also, I should point out that targeting, ambushing, and executing two unarmed civilians (read: noncombatants) when at war is a WAR CRIME. Period. There is a major, well defined difference between civilians dying unavoidably in crossfire during a war and being specifically targeted and executed like Dorner did to that girl and her fiance. If he was a soldier who did what he did in a time of war he would either be summarily executed in the field to prevent the murders or would be faced with a war crimes tribunal and the death penalty after the fact. Thus your excuse for his actions that "In any war, there are going to be casualties" is wholly unable to excuse his actions, even if you buy the concept that a civilian has the ethical right to "declare war" and start shooting innocent third parties whenever they feel they are pushed too far because they got fired unfairly by another person.
What I don't understand is how less than 2 dozen people can make the news. Sensational news sells, but come on less than 2 dozen activists??? The MEDIA is sinking to new lows. Notice they don't pan out with the camera views. Then show small groups of 6 people, two people to make you THINK there are hundreds there. Fraudulent use of the camera.
NewM,It is Los Angeles California,one of the biggest economy's in the world.That is the why it made news.
You've got to be kidding me! He killed people!!! Innocent people!!!!!
Doner killed innocent people the same as his ex-police peers continue to do. Murder is murder and since Doner is dead, he'll never kill again. so logically the focus should now be on LAPD's criminal activity and should not be supported by the public's wink of an eye and silence. Meanwhile in regard to Doner's original complaint namely, the unlawful assault by an officer against an American citizen, police accountability is utterly at hand starting with the two women wrongly gunned down in broad daylight which hasn't resulted in the arrest of even one police officer responsible.
@Betty .....yes so was LAPD killed "KELLY THOMAS "in front of us .....
Bambi 12-
In the movie, wasn't your mother killed in front of you also?
BettyS,Yes he killed innocent people.and the cops tried to kill innocent people trying to capture him because they thought they were above the law.they burned him out just like in the old western movies because they thought(San Bernardino Sheriffs)they were above the law.Notice the people in San Bernardino are not protesting?He was a black man and the bigots still flourish in San Bernardino,Ca.
MEDIA why not do a report on how brave the policeMEN that searched door to door and those who engaged the suspect in the gun battle. And thank the female policemen for guarding the police stations, and directed traffic, and spoke to the press. That would be a more appropriate story.
There goes their personal privacy!
Don't think for 1 minute special idenity software from Police HQ across the street searched, copied & completed info on every individual who's present for that gathering.
I wouldn't want that following me everywhere I go & everything I do.
After giving this some more thought, these idiot protestors ruined their own lives from this day forward for just showing up! You better believe each one (mask or no mask) is now on record & will be followed & watched until the day they die!
Now that was self suicide! lol dopes!
Ronnie,Are you into conspiracy theory's?The cops don't dare touch a hair on their heads because they have a permit to protest without the police harassing them in the future.These people are peacefully demonstrating and are small fish to the LAPD.
I have no sympathy for him. His victims lifes were worth iust as much as his.
I would go one step further. Once he killed that first person, that person and any other victims lives were worth MUCH more than his(Dorner's) He CHOSE to take the actions he did. His victims weren't given any choice.
Good grief, let's not turn this sick cop killer into a martyr. Sure, the LAPD is well identified with police brutality. Look at how they turned LA into a shooting gallery on civilians driving pickup trucks. Sure, they probably fired Dorner unjustly for speaking out against his training officer. But to use a guy who committed multiple homicide as the poster child for ending police brutality? No way.
They expected a turn out of 200, but only wound up with about 24! Lol.
I think they should print his Pro Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and Anti-gun manifesto. It will show you what his problem really was and silence the protesters. I guess the liberal media supports murders now.
They have for a long time...abortions.
Let them abort, they are killing thier own, smart huh?
ex lapd Chris Dorner." is cleared . he look down the barrel of his gun and cleared it , end of story , and no movie for him,
Know that's funny right there, I don't care who you are, that's funny.
I especially like the "pussies" hiding behind masks. What a group of human excrement.
Oakland rock-throwers, no doubt...
This man harbored a lot of anger before he ever got fired from the LAPD. He lost his job, nobody took it from him. That was the excuse to indiscriminately take out his rage on people who just happened to be in range.
jelopard,
The way Dorner saw it was the LAPD took his life away, his firing from the LAPD also caused him to be to dismissed from the Navy reserve. I can see how that may enrage someone, especially if they knew they were not guilty of what caused them to be fired.
Ellis
In his mind he was "not guilty", however, I read where Dorner's mother condemned anything that he did regarding the killings of the people on 3 Feb and afterward. A person has to see that he was in the wrong after that, especially when his own mother says it.
If and that is a Big If, Dorner had opted to go the legal route, I am sure the ACLU would have supported his quest for justice and his name clearing process through the legal system. You just don't kill in order to have people "see it your way".
@ELLIS B ....well put ,I see it the same way ,most people here did not read what the guy had to say(his manifesto) ,what drove him insane ,obviously people talk brain without heart .Only when they or someone they know becomes a statistic becomes a sensitive issue for them .I had experience with a good friend of mine and I know how depression works .I also read his manifesto word with word ,he was very intelligent ,what a waste all the way around ,police officer's daughter and fiancee and the officers involved RIP. Mother of Dorner and his sister he stated they were good to him.
Please be kind with one another because what is behind that skull only God knows ,think from the heart not from your brain with people like that .May GOD give comfort to all suffer loss now.........
bambi
Sorry bambi, I read the complete manifesto and it was a rambling of revenge. He stated his perceived (perceived until proven otherwise) injustices against his name and I could understand that aspect. However, I do not condone killing in regards to "perceived injustices".
It is one thing to have compassion for injustice and that would have been the case, except for the tricky maneuver Dorner did by killing innocents in revenge.
Ellis,
Dorner wasn't released from the Navy Reserve due to LAPD. He submitted his resignation paperwork. He was in the Navy Reserves for about four years after his employment with LAPD was terminated. One has nothing to do with the other.
I agree no excuse for murder, but from what I see he is a person that was pushed over the edge. There is too much coruption in police departments....play the game or you will get ousted.
It is unfortunate that it went as far as it did, but so does road rage and other melt downs.
Clear his name? you've got to be kidding . This guy murdered four people and wounded more because he was fired for being a bad cop. I don't think so. Anyone that condones this type of act is purely a wacko.
hey Max, Ellis Baumgardner condones It.
Hey Max-i-pad, you mean wacko like those half-dozen pigs who unloaded their weapons on the innocent two women delivering papers, shooting the mother in the back and the other in the hand. The back end of their truck looked like it had been machine gunned in an Iraq war zone. Did I mention that the truck was not the same make as Dorner's, did not have the same license plates, and the police did not attempt to indentify the occupants?! Yeah, I am sure this is what you mean by wacko! I am just sorry that you weren't the one shot in the back. Oh, and I mean that in a nice way.
FERNDOC,
You are not authorized to speak for me. I do not condone any of the killings on either side, The whole thing was an unnecessary tragedy. I was just saying I can understand how some people can be pushed over the edge and retaliate as Dorner did......The LAPD is not known for handling situations in an ethical manner, and it was no different this time
Your right, what we need to do is bring the army in there and clear out all these gangbangers and make it American again instead of some African tribalism ghetto
vanjonesie,Best post by far.With a amount of police that we have in California and the gangs keep getting bigger.They are too busy writing traffic tickets to increase revenue to pad those big fat pensions.
24 idiots protest and thats news. they should meet the same fate as guy fawkes...
n8stank,Then I guess you do not honor Americans freedom of speech or right to peacefully demonstrate.Dorner murdered innocent people but if these demonstrators feel he was wronged then they have every right to say so and peacefully demonstrate.they don't care of you like it or not.More people should exercise their opinions like these people.
Ok so he killed some cops, very bad but in that line of work it happens. But this man killed an innocent girl and her boy friend in cold blood. The minute he did that, all credibility is lost. How people can stick up for a man that kill innocent people, idk. Now im not saying that him killing those cops was ok but maybe it could have been justified since they are apart of the system and in that line of work and what not. But they fact that he killed 2 unarmed civilians in cold blood makes him a total coward. Now hes still a cop kill who killed 2 innocent cops but thats the line of work they are in and it happens.
Your'e absolutely right. Maybe he let his rage simmer in his heart too long. He could have found another job, maybe one that didn't require a top-secret security clearance. The fact of the matter is that this guy should have never been fired. The whole thing stinks and the LAPD is to blame. Maybe his firing was due to a combination of personal things other than his complaint but this was never mentioned. I once worked at this job where during our weekly meetings the managers there would encourage us to bring up any issues we may have whether negative or positive, however nobody in their right mind would do that for fear of being severely ostracized or worse ! I worked at another job where the managers there would monitor your emails not only on the job but your personal emails. Anything negative said could either cost you your job or your salary. I worked at another job where my coleaugues discriminated and treated me with cruelty beyond belief for no reason other than my ethnicity but if I complained they would always point oto Africa. i'm not the only one this happens to thousands if not millions of people. The policie is always telling people "if you see something tell us" but that policy does not pertain to them. The blue wall of silence is a known fact with the police. So where do you draw the line. I don't condone what this guy did, but it did make people think a little. The people who have much to fear because of their deeds blew a sigh of relief when this guy died, but if you think tactically he got six of them and only one of him...
What a moron and your comments are flat ignorant, and NO it does not EVER happen in law enforcement and he killed 4 innocent people and hurt 5 others, glad he is crispy and people like you should have a lobotomy and throw in a dump...
He was a filthy low life pig who used racism as his excuse for failure. My advice is, if Black people dont want Police protection let them defend their own neighborhoods.
STFU!!! There were just as many whites there at the protest as blacks or do you just see what YOU want to see? And in his whole manifesto racism was a very, very small part of his whole problem. Stop using YOU'RE own racist behavior to justify saying someone else is using the race card. Idiot!
Hey Dan. You used the wrong form of your. Sorry you a DA!
Anyone that says LAPD is racist will get backing from a small group of people who want to believe it.
Yep, I'm betting this guy was wronged in some way initially, but when you start murdering innocent people to push your cause the credibility issues are a tad overwhelming.
Yep, I agree.
Hey Srich, when you get pushed hard enough, and far enough, then you may be a bit surprised, even shocked, by what you are willing to do get back at those who assaulted you. It's easy to condemn others, but I wonder if you have the guts to walk a mile or two in his shoes. I doubt you could last two minutes.
Oh Paul grow up and put it back in your pants. You're embarrassing yourself.
He MURDERED two innocent people, who had NOTHING to do with him being fired for being a bad cop. It doesn't matter to me if he was railroaded, unjustly fired, or complete guilty, he lost any credibility when he, again, MURDERED TWO INNOCENT PEOPLE. I could walk for miles and never have premeditate murder enter my mind at all. I think that's the way MOST people think. Else we'd have a lot more work place murders than we do. People get fired and/or laid off every single day. He wasn't 'assaulted' at all, he's just another dead insane murderer.
And we're all better off for it.
And isn't that the point ladies? Had the guy gone after the EXACT person who did this to him allegedly we might even have good movie material.
Paul- No, it's not in me to go after innocent people to pay for the "alleged" sins of others and murder them in cold blood.
This man was a malfunction waiting to happen. He killed 4 people, who can clear his name now? He had a major screw loose and his bahavior proved it. His name will never be cleared, because of his own violent and very stupid actions. His soul is now in the hands of a much higher power, than some goofy libs or the LAPD. Its amazing how people will throw their lives away for their ego. "Me and my story", "Me and what I want" me, me, me. Dead, at least, stops the head buzzing untill the next nut shows up.
Well, he was part of Gen-Y (WHY?)... The same knuckle-heads who lead the occupy movement.
wahoo69--and yet even these knuckle-heads you speak of could spell "led" correctly. duh!
Perhaps Wahoo69 meant 'lead', not 'led'? Perhaps his statement was meant in terms of present tense vs. past tense, since the Occupy Movement is still news worthy and a current ideology?
He had killed Police officers and other people, Dorner should deserve the death penalty by himself anyhow. No excuses for these guy Dorner.
You live in a world as black and white as Dorner's
He was a lying punk and black and white on many levels looked at his lying criminal murderous a$$. He killed very innocent Officers and Citizens that had NOTHING to do with his psycho dead crispy body, a great thing!! He was the racist puke...