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Subscribe to RSSA series of shootings in Orange County ended with the gunman taking his own life. NBC's Brian Williams reports.
A 20-year-old college student went on a shooting rampage across Orange County, Calif., on Tuesday, killing three people and injuring several others before killing himself, authorities said.
Police said the man, identified as Ali Syed, 20, of Ladera Ranch, Calif., told one of his victims, whose car he stole: "I killed somebody. This is my last day."
In all, there were three homicide victims and at least five victims of attempted homicide, police said.
Syed, a student at Saddleback College in Mission Viejo with no criminal record, shot and killed a young woman in his home in Ladera Ranch, which he shared with his parents, said Scott Jordan, police chief of the town of Tustin, where several of the incidents occurred Tuesday.
The relationship between Syed and the young woman remained unclear, as was the reason she was in the home, police said.
Syed's parents were home at the time, about 4:45 a.m. (7:45 a.m. ET), and fled, Jordan said. Syed then took their black sport-utility vehicle and set out on a drive along Orange County's highways, stopping at times to change cars and shoot people — apparently at random, according to police.
As state troopers homed in on him, he then killed himself.
Police and sheriff's officials gave this account of the dramatic chase:
Syed's first stop was the parking lot of a restaurant in Tustin, another Los Angeles suburb about 20 miles away, where he was spotted loading his shotgun by a man who was waiting in his car for his son.
The man quickly drove off with Syed chasing him on foot and firing his shotgun. The man was shot in the back of head but survived and managed to drive a short way before coming to a stop. Syed shot and wounded a second person who had rushed up to see what was happening.
Syed's car was damaged and had a flat tire, so he ran across the street to a gasoline station, where he approached a man filling up his tank. He took the man's truck after politely telling him: "I don't want to hurt you. I killed somebody. This is my last day. Give me your keys."
Investigators update the deadly carjackings in Southern California.
Now in his second stolen vehicle, Syed took off down state Route 55. He exited in Santa Ana, where he began randomly firing at vehicles on the freeway.
Three vehicles were damaged in Santa Ana, the driver of one of which suffered minor injuries to his face and hand. That man drove home and called police, who began tracking Syed in earnest. The drivers of all three damaged vehicles were being considered victims of attempted homicide.
Back in the stolen truck, Syed again tore off down Route 55. He took an off-ramp too fast, causing him to jump the curb, whereupon he leapt out of the truck, approached a man who was stopped at a stop sign, "walked him across the road and executed him, shooting him three times," Jordan said.
That victim was identified as Melvin Lee Edwards, 69, of Laguna Hills.
Syed then took the man's BMW — his third stolen vehicle — and drove off to the parking lot of a computer store, where he shot two people, apparently strangers, killing one of them. The dead man was identified as Jeremy Lewis, 26, of Fullerton.
Syed drove off in yet another stolen vehicle, returning to Route 55 as emergency calls poured in to authorities. As state troopers were preparing to get into position, he exited the freeway in the city of Orange. With the stolen vehicle still moving, he jumped out, put the shotgun to his head and killed himself.
Authorities said they found the shotgun beside Syed's body. And as of late Tuesday afternoon, they said, they had no explanation for why any of it happened.
Matthew DeLuca and Olivia Santini of NBC News contributed to this report. Follow M. Alex Johnson on Twitter and Facebook.
This story was originally published on Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:07 PM EST
Leave a Comment:
"do we blame the car,the gun or the criminal?"
Um, we blame Obama....
You must be new here.
Mike
Why don't we blame it on Obusha. That way in this politically correct world there will be no winner, no loser. No right, no wrong. Everybody makes the team and gets a trophy.
Blame it on the Jews....no no, the Irish...no no the Muslims....no no the "illegals"no no the Italians, Nigerians, Brazilians, Australians, Spaniards, Indians, Namibians....as long as it's not the NRA and the GOP who could ameliorate the crisis
Yhbua...I have read hundreds of your factless posts. You never contribute anything of value, only emotional shrieking on a subject that you have no knowledge of whatsoever.
Some people suggested if all guns are banned, there would not be gun-violence. I see the other half full. Only if everyone is allowed to carry guns, criminal would be thinking three times before they attend to murder other people as in this case. Pece with arms!
No they wouldn't, criminals are stupid.
According to the FBI annual crime report, as gun ownership and concealed carry rights
have expanded in the same timeframe, firearm murders in the United States have
steadily fallen from 17,075 in 1993 to 8,583 in 2011 and are now at the lowest
levels since the mid-1960s.
According to the FBI annual crime report, the violent crime rates in the United States have fallen
from a rate of 758/100,000 in population in 1991 to 386/100,000 in population in 2011. That is a remarkable decrease of almost 50% and is a testament to the ability of lawful gun ownership and
concealed carry laws to prevent crime.
The media attention to all the bad things that happen is misleading many people. The fact is, according to the FBI, that violent crime has been going down every year over the last ten years. The number of people who die from gun related injuries has also been decreasing every year over the last ten. Gun ownership has been rising every year over the last ten years. Despite what the media would have you think things are getting better. The U.S. dose not even make the top10 list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.
Even with gun ownership on the rise gun related deaths have been dropping every year.
HRDawg, there is no such thing as "accidents". Everything is caused. The word "accident" was invented by people who won't take responsibility for their actions and excuse similar actions in other people.
Pull your head out of your butt hole californians......where are all the CCW holders.....Maybe he was protesting all the injustices....like Officer/Lt. Dorner.
freedom supporter
Unionized law enforcement. No room for corruption there!
freedom-supporter; a lot of us wish we could carry, but as you probably know, that's a crime in Kalifornia. And forget trying to get a CCW permit here; the police chiefs and sheriffs, except in the far north, rural counties, just don't give them to average citizens. You gotta 'know somebody.' Or maybe be able to prove you are under a fatwa from Ayman Al-Zarcrazy....even that might not get it (thanks anyway for your non-refundable $400+ application 'fee'). CA is the face of where America is going if we keep electing the left.
Read the latest LA Weekly article on conceal carry in Los Angeles County that came out last week.
Unless you contributed to Sheriff Baca or bought a recent wedding gift for him, which seems to be almost all the CCW holders in Los Angeles County according to LA Weekly's research, you don't get one.
Some are just more equal it seems.
Sweet.
Another typical day in America. The glory of the gunslingers lives on.
March 2007
25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw, GA unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of “Wild West” showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.
May Jesus Christ have mercy on your evil rotten souls, you lousy no good sons of perdition and eternal death.
According to the FBI annual crime report, as gun ownership and concealed carry rights
have expanded in the same timeframe, firearm murders in the United States have
steadily fallen from 17,075 in 1993 to 8,583 in 2011 and are now at the lowest
levels since the mid-1960s.
According to the FBI annual crime report, the violent crime rates in the United States have fallen
from a rate of 758/100,000 in population in 1991 to 386/100,000 in population in 2011. That is a remarkable decrease of almost 50% and is a testament to the ability of lawful gun ownership and
concealed carry laws to prevent crime.
Great, now comrade feinstein will want all shotguns banned.
If you pay attention to her past statements her goal is to get all guns banned and confiscated.
Your soul is going to be confiscated by Satan and thrown into hell for all eternity. What are you worried about this stupid evil life for? Worry about the next life, you stupid evil fool.
I know it is, I read part of her insane ban list. Wonder if it includes her cc peice in her purse? Did this shotgun have a pistol grip, adjustable stock, billion round "clip", full auto and fired from the hip? It will be when the story leaves her ugly face.
My condolences to the families.
Life is becoming more and more debased each day, so nobody should be surprised anymore when tragedies like this happen.
To the few whom are responsible loving, caring, and kind individuals I am not referring to you and thank you for contributing to a better society, to the rest here goes. It is not fair to the rest of the country that we have raised a generation that thinks we owe them. They have no respect for humanity, no responsibility. We can't discipline them, everything has to be politicly correct cause, we might hurt someones feelings. They have no pride in our history, how our fore fathers fought for our rights, they could care less. They treat their parents and grandparents like trash and have a demanding attitude. They think they are too good to help at home, much less work for what they want. Instead of everything being given to them they should be earning it. Most drive better cars than working responsible adults. It's time to rethink how our kids are being raised. What are they doing right now, who are they with, what are they watching, drinking, smoking, and finially putting in their prescious minds.
Well Obamee will have to do the exec order on shotguns now!
Goleta
It is up to your County Sheriff in Ca. if you can have a CCP. It is encouraged in my county that will remain unamed.
"Ali Syed, 20, of Ladera Ranch, California". It sounds like this guy is from Islamabad no a suburb of Los Angles. "The Dream Act" give all these idiots a clear path to citizenship. OH GOODIE! This is the dream we all share. Thanks Mr Obama! Yipppppeeeeeee for us.
Guns, Cars or Alcohol, which one is responsible for the most American deaths? I can tell you that guns and cars combined don't even come close to killing as many people as alcohol does. Over 75,000 people a year die just in America in alcohol related incidents. That means every single day we lose about 207 people. Now, all of you whiney liberals crying about "What do we need guns for" please tell me just one good thing about alcohol, and I'll tell you 5 bad things. Don't start by telling me you need a six pack just to pick up your date, that don't count. I also don't remember reading anything in our Constitution about drinking rights. I don't drink, but neither do I want to see alcohol banned. Maybe we should have backgroung checks on people buying alcohol, for people with DUI's. Once we start down this banning path, there will be no end to it. Enforce the laws we have, with harsher penalties.
I think it is sad if someone actually says they need alcohol to get a date.
Hey America, don't worry about it, let the kids play murder video games all day long and take big pharma mind altering drugs for their ADHD... We don't need GOD in our schools or anywhere else. Don't discipline the kids when they are young... that would be abusive! You can have sex with anything or anybody, any time that's OK with us. Want someone to talk to... sorry out of time, here take this it will make you feel better, for a little while! How many times have you been married Mom? What no Dad in the house, you have three Moms... no problem. Hey life is all about us, we are GOD's, we are the future. Just not sure you are going to like whats in our heads? You liberal pieces of garbage... you created the world we now live in and the monsters you created are NOW real!
If their is anything the gov can do it is to get the economy back into a state where a family can live on a single income. At least one Parent need to be at home more often than not to raise their children right.
Dowhatsright, do you support raising the minimum wage to $9 p/h?
I do... we will NEVER have a one parent income. EVERYTHING is going up except our incomes... TV and the internet are raising our kids... that and big pharma!
Yuba- For adults $9/hr may be reasonable. However for part time HS student workers $7 is more than generous.
A person with reasonable training and education should not have trouble finding work that pays more than $10/hr.
Ten dollars an hour for a family man still keeps him under the poverty line. Also you can't pay a 17 yr old less than what you pay a 28 yr old for the same work. First of all it's age discrimination which is the silent crime in today's America. Secondly, if you want a student to pay his college loan later on, don't screw him or her for their age. What if the youngster is a father or a mother at such tender age. You don't support abortion I hope.
Yhuba- We also need to get the cost of living to go down.
They just think of the hand outs
So lets shaft some and reward others? Is that the new American way? Nobody has proved that an increase of the minimum wage brings on inflation. I'm willing to pay an extra 15 cents for my pizza if that improves the lot we always see characterized as lazy moochers. Millions of min. wage earners can't make it on their salaries alone.
It also makes sense as revenue increases from taxes and a more robust economy when we lift their purchasing power. Please people, start thinking USA and Americans and less us v them or I can assure you, we'll all perish together and the American dream will join the British and Roman Empire as well as the Greece of Aristotle in the category of "have been". China is waiting to fill the vacuum...
Yhbua, you start out as if you care about gun violence or gun ban (a good thing), and then you go on to ranting about "age discrimination in hiring 17 year olds for less than minimum age"...Uh? What is your clear position on the issue you start commenting on? You are all over the place dude. You either care for a subject, or you don't...or you disagree. You are either pregnant or not! You can't be half pregnant. But you can be in your own world...whatever it is. Your rants are not making sense.
Do people think before they post or do they just regurgitate the same tired lines they heard from their favorite radio or tv personality?
The gun issue is not black and white. There isn't one piece of legislation that will eliminate gun violence in the U.S. or really lower the number significantly aside from some form of massive government buyback or takeback program, and since nobody of substance is considering that I think all everybody needs to calm down.
I happen to like firearms. I own a 380, S&W 40 and an M9. Took them and a couple of my guys to the range yesterday and had a blast. I made some interesting observations while there and usually do when I go to the range. There are a lot of people out there who purchase firearms legally, but have no damned business owning one. Whether it's a shotgun, rifle or handgun.
The problem I see is that people have the ability to purchase or acquire them without any comprehensive background check to include mental status, training, certification or responsibility for that matter. Some states do have mandated requirements like illinois has the FOID. But, in order to drive a car you have to have training, driver's license, insurance etc.
In case anyone hasn't noticed, there is an awful lot of gun violence is carried out by people who had no record, no criminal history, purchased or obtained the firearms legally. In other words they weren't "criminals" until they took whatver firearm and committed a crime with it like this guy in the article. So, the comment about criminals always having the guns..well no s#$t, the guy wasn't a criminal two seconds before pulling the trigger.
Having a few better measures out there and a little better of a job tracking firearms especially when stolen and requiring some training and certification of people who want to purchase firearms I don't think is asking too much. But it would have to be on a federal level. Doesn't do any good to have strict laws in California or Illinois if one only has to drive a few hours in either direction and purchase them. Sort of stupid logic especially from those making comments about how the gun laws in those states aren't doing any good. That's a no brainer there.
But, a few common sense measures might mitigate some of the stuff going on but of course there will always be crimes committed with firearms. It's just a reality of living in a country where they are in such abundance and easy to obtain.
Kind of agree with you on the training/getting familiar with firearms part. Ive witnessed quite a few people buy an ar15 just because of all this talk. It was their first gun, theyve never even seen a 223/556 round, and barely knew what an ar looked like.
fact man,
It sounds like Preachers on the east in New York are threatening with shot guns as well. It happened this saturday on the subway, CBS reported it today. Here is the Youtube video
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9R1cCRcFQ4I
Published on Feb 19, 2013
"'I'm a good man. I'm a gay man. And Jesus loves me!' Moment passenger takes on homophobic subway preacher and gets applauded
Preacher said the reason Michael Jackson died because he was gay
He said if he weren't a preacher he would get his 'shotgun'
Gay man called preacher 'false prophet' and said 'Jesus is love, love wins'."
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281059/Brave-gay-man-stands-homophobic-preacher-NYC-subway-gets-applauded-VIDEO.html
Hopefully we don't hear of somebody going beserk in New York now.
Facts about crime rates in England:
Total Crime Victims....3rd highest in the world and 25% higher than the United States.
Rape Victims...6th highest in the world and 125% higher than the United States.
Assault Victims...2nd highest in the world and 133% higher than the United States.
Facts about crime rates in Australia:
Total Crime Victims...THE highest in the world and 100% higher than the United States.
Rape Victims...5th highest in the world and 150% higher than the United States.
Assault Victims...4th highest in the world and 100% higher than the United States.
Facts about crime rates in Canada:
Total Crime Victims...7th highest in the world and 13% higher than the United States.
Rape Victims...8th highest in the world and 100% higher than the United States.
Assault Victims...5th highest in the world and 92% higher than the United States.
I saw that video cit liberty and I have to say the guy who stood up, spoke up and asked the other travelers to join him in his applause of "love and tolerance" was brave and amazing.
I am little taken aback...does this kind of thing happen on NYC trains, or is this something unusual and rare?
I have always found people on the crowded NYC trains or subways to be pleasant, nice, kind and helpful. Sometimes they look tired and distracted...they don't smile much or talk much. But they are nice...even to preachers who generally leave you alone if you say, "Please don't be loud" or "Leave me alone" or "I don't want to hear this, and I am not of your faith".
This is getting crazy. That man stood his ground and we have to applaud him. Let this be a lesson to our pro-gun guys. Those guys verbally confronted and challenged each other...there was no shoving, beating or guns. If there had been a gun somebody might have fired out of anger, fear, hate or self defense.
Lets applaud their peaceful shouting. Thank goodness for no guns! No guns!
Just one more NRA success story. I'm sure LaPierre was smiling broadly as he read this story.
According to the FBI annual crime report, as gun ownership and concealed carry rights
have expanded in the same timeframe, firearm murders in the United States have
steadily fallen from 17,075 in 1993 to 8,583 in 2011 and are now at the lowest
levels since the mid-1960s.
According to the FBI annual crime report, the violent crime rates in the United States have fallen
from a rate of 758/100,000 in population in 1991 to 386/100,000 in population in 2011. That is a remarkable decrease of almost 50% and is a testament to the ability of lawful gun ownership and
concealed carry laws to prevent crime.
My little old grandmother lived 79 years on this earth without carrying a gun.
But you big tough rednecks all need guns to protect yourselves. You people are just lowlife ignorant scum left over from another century. You are so evil, you have no place in God's eternal kingdom.
When you hate blacks but love guns, you belong in hell.
When you hate Mexicans but love guns, you belong in hell.
When you hate gays but love guns, you belong in hell.
What part of "you belong in hell" don't you rednecks understand?
Countries with stricter gun regulation than the United States such as England, Australia,
Mexico, France, Sweden, Belgium, Holland, Brazil, Finland, and Columbia all
have higher violent crime rates than the United States and experienced
increases in violent crime rates following restrictive gun bans.
Violent crime rates in England are now almost 5 times the violent crime rate in the
United States. This has occurred as England has experienced rapidly increasing violent crime since its 1997 gun ban while the United States continues to experience decades-long decreases in
violent crime.
Cities with the most restrictive gun laws in the United States such as Chicago,
Detroit, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and New Orleans continue to experience high
levels of violent crime. Often experiencing increases in violent crime and murder rates while the rest of the United States has enjoyed steady decreases in violent crime and murders over
the past several decades as gun ownership and concealed carry rights have increased.
In cities, states, and countries with the most restrictive gun laws women have
become increasingly victimized by sexual assaults. The rates of sexual assaults in countries
such as England, Australia, and even Canada are now all significantly higher
than the United States following their gun bans.
There are approximately 1.5 million gang members in the United States, an estimated
500,000 of these gang members are illegal immigrants. You can be certain that these criminals,
already responsible for the overwhelming majority of violent crime, will ignore
any additional gun laws as they have always ignored all prior laws and will
increase their violent behavior if they are given a large, unarmed group of
potential victims.
John- you have a lot of hatred pent up and are making many unjustified remarks about people you have never met. Stop being a bully and get informed.
When you spread hate for anyone than you go against the teachings of Christ. That includes Rednecks.
BTW Redneck is a term used for people who work all day in the sun so much that the back of their neck has become red (Farmers).
Rednecks are ignorant white people who have to compete with blacks and Mexicans for jobs, so they use guns for intimidation to make themselves feel bigger than the evil little rotten human beings they are.
Can you name me any other place on the face of the earth where God sends more tornadoes than the ignorant southern states of the American south? God can't stand those ignorant no good people and their ignorant no good gun-loving views.
John Penn-2341008. There is some sense in what you say. So many have become much too obsessed with firearms, they have lost the ability to reason.
John you are attempting to spread lies and hatred. Clear your mind of your desire and you will see the truth of the world around you as it is.
Now I tell you: whoever is angry with his brother will be brought to trial, whoever calls his brother 'You good for nothing' will be brought before council, and whoever calls his brother a worthless fool will be in danger of going to the fire of hell. Mathew 5. 22
Law-abiding gun owners use their guns to prevent crime an estimated
500,000 – 2,000,000 times a year. These
statistics vary due to a lack of reporting in most instances, but surveys of
convicted felons support these findings.
Using even the most conservative estimates, guns obviously save
exponentially more lives each year than are used to commit murder
Jeffersonian3
You are such a shameless liar. If you even were remotely correct, you might have an ounce of credibility. England and Australia and Japan have a much much much lower violent crime rate per capita than the US. And, the correlation between concealed carry and lowering of violent crime is spurious at best. States and cities that have no conceal and carry have just as high or higher decreases in violent crime (look at New York for instance). The decrease in violent crime rates have to do with the passage of Roe vs Wade in the '70s. Read a book once in a while, you might learn something. Even Chicago has a 50% decrease in gun related murders this year compared to 1997. At least bring one or two real facts to the argument or shut up!
BG- You are incorrect.
The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations. Twenty-six percent of English citizens — roughly one-quarter of the population — have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized. The United States didn’t even make the “top 10″ list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.
Jeffersonian3
2,000,000 people a year prevent a crime using a handgun? Cite your reference. That would be 1 in every 150 people in the US. Considering that about 25% of all Americans are too young to legally own a handgun, then almost 1 in every 100 Americans have prevented a crime with a gun? You actually expect anyone to believe that? Wow!!! You must think all of us are stupid enough to watch FOX news? I have met over 30,000 people in my 56 years on this planet, of all makes and models, and not one person I have ever known has prevented a crime with a gun. Guess I just don't know the right people? I lived in Texas for 7 years, a state full of guys like you, and not one of them ever prevented a crime with a handgun. I have had a close personal friend killed with one, though. He could have had a gun in his holster, wouldn't have mattered, because the bad guy was on him too quick for any response. But, hey, you have the stats, so you must be right!!!!
Hey Down
Industrialized nations? Nice when you can single out the comparisions.
What about Japan? By the way, England had less than 1% of the total murders by guns than did the US, Australia, less than that. I don't know about you, but I will take my chances on some little skinny punk with a knife, I can run away, can't run away from a gun.
Florida State University criminology professor Gary Kleck, a political liberal and one-time supporter of gun-control laws, has been studying guns and their effect on violence and crime since 1976.
According to Kleck, “There are perhaps 600,000-1 million defensive uses of guns each year.
BG- I don't see a difference in murder by gun or other methods. Murder is murder and the murder rates per 100,000 are much higher in AUS and GB.
BTW in an overall comparison of all nations the U.S. falls down to the bottom of the list again. #89.
Even Australia’s Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime: In 2002 — five years after enacting its gun ban — the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.
In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault — Australia’s equivalent term for rape — increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Facts about crime rates in England:
Total Crime Victims....3rd highest in the world and 25% higher than the United States.
Rape Victims...6th highest in the world and 125% higher than the United States.
Assault Victims...2nd highest in the world and 133% higher than the United States.
Facts about crime rates in Australia:
Total Crime Victims...THE highest in the world and 100% higher than the United States.
Rape Victims...5th highest in the world and 150% higher than the United States.
Assault Victims...4th highest in the world and 100% higher than the United States.
Facts about crime rates in Canada:
Total Crime Victims...7th highest in the world and 13% higher than the United States.
Rape Victims...8th highest in the world and 100% higher than the United States.
Assault Victims...5th highest in the world and 92% higher than the United States.
Dowhatisconvenient:
so now its 600,000 to 1,000,000, down a little from 2,000,000 (by, wait, 50 - 70%!). I make a living as a scientist, I study and read and investigate for money. Just because a professor (I have been one for over 22 years) says something doesn't make it right, especially a " one time supporter" of anything. Cite the specific study, lets have a look at how he collected his data. Again, I do it for a living, believe me, you can get data to tell you anything you want to if you have no objectivity.
Fact is, again, states and cities with extremely strict gun laws have seen equal or greater decreases in violent crime rates over the same period of time, therefore, there is only a temporal relationship, not a geographical or statutory one. The decrease in violent crime in this country can only be related to the legalization of abortion 40 years ago. Unwanted kids were prevented, kids that had a much higher statistical probability of committing a violent crime. Endless statistical analysis has been performed, and that is the only correlate that can be accounted for, the most logical conclusion, I reference freakanomics here.
The annual number of murders in England in the ten year period AFTER their 1997 gun ban was HIGHER than the annual number of murders in England in the ten year period before their 1997 gun ban.
you didn't answer the question Jeffersonian, where did you get your reference for 2,000,000 people in the US preventing crime with a gun? Cite your reference. US death by gun rate - over 1,000 times greater than US, US death rate by gun rate - over 2,000 times greatere than that of Australia, Us death by gun rate, over 15,000 times greater than that of Japan, number of massacres by guns in Australia since the gun ban - 0.
BG- I have a few degrees too. However I do not work in a lab or lecture hall. I am out there in the real world.
Can you find any empirical studies that show how gun bans reduce violent crime or murders. I have tried to find some but was unable to except for extremely biased sources that offered claims without proof.
discovered in your recent survey that wasn't previously known?
consistent with those of a dozen previous surveys which generally indicates that
defensive use of guns is pretty common and probably more common than criminal
uses of guns. This survey went beyond previous ones in that it provided detail
about how often people who had used a gun had done so. We asked people was the
gun used defensively in the past five years and if so how many times did that
happen and we asked details about what exactly happened. We nailed down that
each use being reported was a bona fide defensive use against a human being in
connection with a crime where there was an actual confrontation between victim
and offender. Previous surveys were a little hazy on the details of exactly what
was being reported as a defensive gun use. It wasn't, for example, clear that
the respondents weren't reporting investigating a suspicious noise in their back
yard with a gun where there was, in fact, nobody there. Our results ended up
indicating, depending on which figures you prefer to use, anywhere from 800,000
on up to 2.4, 2.5 million defensive uses of guns against human beings -- not
against animals -- by civilians each year.
Gun control advocates such as BG like to point to "gun" murder rates, apparently they don't care about all the additional people that get killed with knives, clubs, and fists when violent crime rates increase after gun bans.
They also like to point to England's low gun homicide rate...but what they never mention is that the average number of gun homicides in England in the ten year period AFTER their 1997 gun ban was HIGHER than the ten year average of gun homicides in England before the 1997 gun ban.
England has never had high gun homicide rates, regardless of gun control. Perhaps it's because they don't have the 1.5 million gang members in their country like the United States is afflicted with?
Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent
increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since
Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is
higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia
and South Africa.
The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and
Northern Ireland.
The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country –
927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours,
including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
It also recorded the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU, and the highest
absolute number of burglaries, with double the number of offences recorded in
Germany and France.
Overall, 5.4 million crimes were recorded in the UK in 2007 - more than 10 a
minute - second only to Sweden.
The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission's database of
statistics. They are gathered using official sources in the countries concerned
such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration,
ministries of the interior or justice, and police.
A breakdown of the statistics revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974
offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.
It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the
UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.
Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by
Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.
By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per
100,000 population.
France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 – a 67 per cent increase in
the past decade – at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.
Hey do what is whatever, I have 4 degrees including a PhD and I own my own business, so I guess I'm in the "real world" where my business has grossed over 1/3 million over my salary, sorry, you don't have me on either account.
Fact is, for every crime prevented by a gun, 1,000's occur using a gun. Again, I would take my chances if you or anyone else confronted me with any weapon other than a gun. That is the point, it makes a nobody a somebody.
I'm not saying that guns serve no purpose, so did the bubonic plague, without it we would have 3 billion more people on the earth right now. The fact is, the harm caused by guns far outweighs the good. In other words, the children massacred by that nut in Newtown and the other 35,000 murders by guns committed in this country every year outweighs a bunch of compensator's need to feel powerful.
I know I sound like a broken record, but lets face it, he could have done this with a knife, a hammer, a fondue fork, or a particularly stout pair of chop sticks. I know that if a man jumps into the passeger seat of my car, and he had a hammer, I wouldn't even think to jump out of the other door, I would just let him walk me across the street and beat me to death with the hammer. Yes, this has nothing what so ever to do with the guns, it is all about the person. Give me a break.
In a study of average lethality of mass murders, explosives lead the way with an
average number of 86.5 victims killed, followed by arson at 8.5 victims killed,
with firearms well behind with an average number of 4.87 victims killed.
The use of commercial aircraft on 9/11/01 to kill 2,996 people, the use of
fertilizer and diesel fuel to kill 186 people and injure over 800 more in the
Oklahoma City bombings, the use of explosives to kill 38 children, 6 adults,
and injure at least 58 others in the Bath, Michigan school bombing, and the
almost daily attacks that kill dozens with improvised explosives throughout the
Middle East are all examples that prove it’s the behavior that must be stopped
not the tools used by the perpetrators of these terrible attacks.
You cant have a better reason for concealed carry!
Oh, yeah, let's go back to the ignorant Old West where every scumbag owned a gun.
When you are burning in hell, what will your gun do for you then?
John-
March 2007
25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw, GA unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of “Wild West” showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.
We live in a lawless society.
Repeat offenders and career criminals (gang and non-gang affiliated) commit almost all of the violent crime in the United States. Other than the criminals themselves, the current judicial system and its culture of low prosecution rates, light prison sentencing, and early paroles is the single greatest threat to public safety in
this country.
probably a dorner fan
I believe in gun control. If every good citizen had one this would not of happened! There would still be a father, a son, a daughter and mother with their loved ones tonight. As my marine son would say we have to fight for peace and demand that others respect our right in the pursuit of happiness. I would rather arm my grandmother than lay down and die at the hand of the sick. May the sick find the help they need because in this current word they are not. Think about it!
Just insanity... crazy , meaningless, tragic.....and we can do nothing?
We're doing something, and it's helping tremendously:
According to the FBI annual crime report, as gun ownership and concealed carry rights
have expanded in the same timeframe, firearm murders in the United States have
steadily fallen from 17,075 in 1993 to 8,583 in 2011 and are now at the lowest
levels since the mid-1960s.
According to the FBI annual crime report, the violent crime rates in the United States have fallen
from a rate of 758/100,000 in population in 1991 to 386/100,000 in population in 2011. That is a remarkable decrease of almost 50% and is a testament to the ability of lawful gun ownership and
concealed carry laws to prevent crime.
This is also tragic, but I hear no calls for banning cars or reducing speed limits to 30 mph.
An estimated 36,200 people died in motor vehicle accidents in 2012, the National Safety Council said Tuesday. That's up from 34,600 deaths the previous year. It's the first increase since 2004 to 2005.
@Jeffersonian3
Too bad California has all of the proposals Obama wants already in the law. Unless you're an influential politician, there's no such thing as a carry permit.
Like I said, Uh, Uhm ...Don't worry, 'Bama's going to fix everything ... He's sending Biden in with shotgun's a'blazin... Oh yeah, and a little Kentucky-Jelly LIBERALLY applied AROUND the muzzle helps too....
California needs to pass a "shall issue" law. If open carry is distressing then concealed carry is the only way to facilitate the right of the people to keep and bear arms. The reason given for prohibiting open carry in California was that "sworn officers of the law are out on the streets to protect you." That theory doesn't work in practice and was as much a lie when it was first stated as it is now.
You are responsible for your own life, there is no one to protect you but you.
Joe Glenn - I could get behind that
So what is the solution morons? Disarm everybody? Use your brains guns are used for defense as well as offense. Just depends on what and who you are. How many times does this need to be repeated? End of story.
To TIM-1419381:
Yours is the same sing-song I keep hearing from your disjointed gun loving friends.
Tim- I have offered some solutions that will work. However many people either ignore them or are too lazy to try them preferring to wait for the government to solve all the problems.
For real solutions to happen people need to take deep down looks into themselves and find the courage and fortitude to be a active part of the solution.
1) Reverse the rapidly decreasing prosecution rates for violent criminals.
2) Increase the length of mandatory prison sentences for violent crime.
3) Put an end to the practice of early parole for violent criminals.
4) Increased and regular utilization of the death penalty.
5) Reduce the amount of freedoms afforded to violent criminals in prison by increasing
their isolation from the outside world and decreasing their access to amenities
such as exercise equipment, television, internet access, and tobacco.
6) Secure the nation’s borders to decrease the number of illegal people (including potential terrorists), drugs, and guns that enter our country.
7) Increase the number of mental healthcare facilities and programs in the country.
8) Institute warning system procedures for mental healthcare providers and family members to
report potentially dangerous behavior displayed by mentally ill individuals.
9) Investigate the usage of psychoactive drugs and their effects upon the mentally ill.
10) Create additional gang task forces in the cities experiencing the highest amount of gang violence. These task force members should be specially trained, afforded increased anonymity to prevent retaliation from gangs, and focused on the specific areas within cities where gangs operate.
The perp had no criminal record.
Lee
Hasnt been caught?
Most places Juvenile records are sealed, so he, as they say, may have "Start Clean at eighteen".
The families of the dead should sue the State of California because the legislature chose to disarm the people by illegally passing the "no open carry" law in effect in the state based on the rational that there are "sworn officers of the law" to protect everybody.
Good thought Joe!