E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSView more videos at: http://nbcmiami.com.
One of the two suspects who was the subject of an intense manhunt following a shootout with detectives at a West Kendall, Fla., home has been found dead in an apparent suicide, police said Wednesday.
Miami-Dade Police confirmed that the body of Dell Peter DiGiovanni was found in the area of Southwest 48th Terrace and Southwest 147th Place, as officers conducted a massive manhunt following the Tuesday night shootout.
The discovery came just hours after a burned body was found inside the home in the 15400 block of Southwest 57th Street where the incident began. The body found in the home hasn't been identified.
Police had been searching for Digiovanni, 50, and relative Michael Steven DiGiovanni, 28, following the shooting that happened around 7:15 p.m. when detectives approached the home and came under fire from the suspects.
VIDEO: West Kendall House On Fire Morning After Shootout
As detectives returned fire, the house caught fire, police said. None of the officers were injured.
A third suspect, Brian Kelly Howell, 29, was taken into custody after officers set up a perimeter from Miller Drive to 64th Avenue and from SW 142nd Avenue to SW 157th Avenue, Miami-Dade Police said.
Police had said Dell and Michael DiGiovanni were said to be on the run and likely armed and dangerous.
Miami-Dade Police spokesman Alvaro Zabaleta said the suspects were related but the exact nature of their relationship was unknown.
Zabaleta had earlier said there was still a possibility that someone, including one of the suspects, could be inside the house that was set on fire.
"We have not been able to enter or process the house itself because of the fact that it's still considered to be unsafe, fire has not been able to get to it because it's still too hot," Zabaleta said Wednesday.
When officers and firefighters entered the home Wednesday morning, they discovered the body.
Police said it wasn't immediately clear if all of the men shot at police. Narcotics units were investigating a possible grow house at the home, police said.
Cop Stabbed By Escaped Prisoner Returns to Miami
"These individuals obviously attempted to kill an officer so the very minimum you're gonna have attempted murder on a law enforcement officer," Zabaleta said of the charges they'll face.
Neighbor Rodrigo Ruez said he heard what sounded like automatic guns and backup fire.
"It sounded like the world was ending because everybody was panicking, 'cause everybody heard the shootings,” said Ruez, who was minutes away from his home when he heard the gunshots.
VIDEO: West Miami-Dade Shootout Caught on Camera; Suspect Arrested
Smoke had billowed out of the burning home late Tuesday and into Wednesday morning as Miami-Dade Fire Rescue personnel waited in the area, ready to move in at a moment's notice.
Dozens of police officers were on the scene Tuesday, some of them walking around with rifles.
Some West Kendall residents were kept away from their homes as police searched. Ashley Diaz, like dozens of people, could not get into her home.
She said she was coming back from Target when she found her way blocked, so she stopped at a gas station – where she had been ever since.
“We’re stuck. We can’t go that way, we can’t go that way,” Diaz said, pointing in opposite directions.
Fugitive Wanted for Hialeah Shootout Captured: Cops
The perimeter mostly impacted two housing developments in the area – Lakes of the Meadows and Westwood Lakes.
"This is where I live, and it’s just not safe anymore," said displaced resident Anthony Guzman. "People have kids growing up here. It’s not right.”
This story was originally published on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:59 PM EST
Leave a Comment:
Strict gun control with background checks needed now.
Yeah.. I am certain these are the type of people who would obey the law.
So, navyvet98, would you propose that we legalize murder, since murderers won't obey the law? And that we legalize drunk driving, since drunks still get behind the wheel anyway?
takenaka,,
You are at it early to be first and spread you worthless crap. Hang on people he will be here all day with the same one liner.
Good idea but the Senators are out to lunch on the issue. I am really surprised they told the area to stay indoors with all the gun toting stand your ground people in Florida thought the police would want some help.
Takenaka. I sometimes agree with your posts, but not this time. We Americans are losing to many of our rights. This is one Right that we Americans will not succomb to. The Second Amendent is on the side of the people, NOT the Government. Our Second Amendment is just fine without anyone infringing on my Second Amendment Rights. In other words, when they come to get my guns, and ammo, they will get the Ammo.
No EarlyOut - navyvet is just pointing out that regardless of any gun control law, someone like the people in this story will not care what the law is if they want to obtain a gun, which can be done quite easily in any major city without having to deal with that pesky gun dealer.
I don't see anywhere in their post where they say legalize murder or drunk driving but in your zealousness, you instantly go to the extreme to try and prove your point.
mandatory 10 years in jail for illegal gun possession....In all of Great Britain last year,population of 61 million, there were only 14 deaths by gunshot, for the entire year...WE have 88 murders by gunshot DAILY in the USA.
Even Mitt Romney banned assault weapon possession, as governor of Massachusetts,in 2006,stating that "There is no legitimate need for assault weapons in our nation. I am proud to sign this legislation banning assault weapons in Massachusetts; They are made to kill people,they are not hunting weapons. I am very proud to be the governor of a state which has among the strongest gun control laws in the Nation".
They allow hunting rifles and single shot shotguns in Great Britain,incidentally.
Well, Takenaka is - I see the posts all over and have no issue with that, but EarlyOut's response was so ridiculous, I had to comment.
I think there needs to be some kind of gun regulation - such as around people with mental issues and better background checks - but it is impossible to make it impossible for someone who really wants to acquire a gun to not be able to.
Remember America REJECTED everything Romney said.
Takenaka
At least you are consistent
The problem is that criminals who possess firearms illegally will not be affected by new legislation. They steal guns. They steal ammo. Background checks to purchase ammo would be a good idea, (I do not have to worry because I obey the law). Background checks should also be done every time any type of firearm is purchased, whether at a gun show, gun store, or pawn shop. So I agree with you on that point. But the criminals will still have what they have, and will continue to commit crimes with them. When illegal guns are confiscated, they should immediately be destroyed.
The problem with your solution is that yes Great Britian had gun murders go down very low,the overall number of murders in Great Britian is higher on average since their gun control measures went into place.Overall violent crime such as rape,robbery,assault,attempted murder,and murder are all higher since their gun control went into effect. Its funny how you guys forget to mention this along with your other facts on how wonderful it must be in England. If Piers Morgan feels so unsafe in the USA,then why is he here?
Why is it that it's attemted murder on a police officer. I have nothing about the police, but why is that more serious then them trying to kill me or you. Are they better then us? Think about it.
Why are all you folks attacking eack other? You all should run for office!!!! Guns, words its still an agressive mind set- Why not try offering useful ideas and let somone else be entitled to their opinion?
LMAO
Switzerland does not have an army like we do but an armed population. Almost every Swiss citizen is armed yet they don't kill each other like they do here. Correlation does not imply causation (except maybe when someone has an agenda). Countries that have less violent crime have a less violent society.
Also ask the Austrialians about their skyrocketing violent crimes. They had their guns taken away from them, and now the people have no way to defend themselves. Home invasion has spiked up 75%, not to mention giant spikes in every other type of violent crimes, including murder by guns (which by the way is now only possessed by criminals). Ask an Aussie, how that is working out for them.
"This is where I live, and it’s just not safe anymore," Yes & notice how you did not & had no reason to say this statement 'BEFORE' the police showed up.
"Home invasion has spiked up 75% not to mention giant spikes in every other type of violent crimes, including murder by guns"
You have a credible source for that?
Was it not a ex-cop killing cops a week ago ?
Early Out,
Not at all. We need to enforce the laws and leave the guns of law abiding citizens alone.
Maybe we should look at banning fire, though.
David Mora
A quick search using "BING" returned this. Go to the link at the bottom for the full article.
Sure it did...that's what they said about Dorner's cabin.
can't believe some of the comments here. Prohibition of alcohol has PROVEN that prohibitions haven't worked.Do i need to cite a source? People..you're forgetting one important factor here, they were CRIMINALS. In the real world there is no law that will prevent this stuff from happening, how about cracking down on the criminal element of our society? Is that too much to ask?
People:
-It's the mind, the mind of the people are NOT right!!!
Consider this:
"And they came to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and hath the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid(Mark 5:15)." this is after he got saved...
The people in Washington are possessed with demons!
The common man, goes to church, worships God, protects his family & rights, and they are now AFRAID of "the right to bear arms American citizens," because he knows what is right!
End of story---have a good day.
"If you could have proved him wrong, im sure you would have sited a source for him." <---- Burden of proof lies on him, since he is making the claim. Also, it's "cited".
As to your source, WND (World News Daily) is well known for blatantly twisting facts and misreporting to serve their publicly acknowledged cause (Conservatism, 2nd Amendment, etc). The facts that WND is reporting out of context are manipulated, and several of them are flat out wrong, as I will evidence with the primary sources that WND is altering. (Also, note that the provided source does NOT mention home invasions rising by 75%, which is the initial claim I asked for a source.)
First incorrect Claim: "Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;" The Australian Institute of Criminology disagrees, showing that the overall homicide rate in Australia has not changed significantly in the past decade and dipped slightly right after the 1997 gun buyback program was initiated [Source: ].
Second incorrect Claim: "In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed
300 percent" <--- This is both wrong and intentionally skewed to mislead. For starters, the homicide with firearms rate in Australia has actually decreased since the 1997 buyback program, and is lower than it ever was in the ten years before the buyback [Source: ]. Thus, by intentionally ignoring the overall trend and cherry picking a single case of increase in a small, rapidly growing area, they create the false impression that gun homicides are increasing overall, when they are actually doing the opposite on the country-wide scale. Secondly, their claim isn't even correct for the State of Victoria. Victoria has had an increase of 171%, a little over half of WND's sourceless claim. That increase sounds like a lot, until you realize that it is because, for a state of 4.5 million people, it only had 7 fire-arm related homicides in 1996, and had 19 in 1997 (after the buyback). That's an increase of twelve homicides, which is well within a standard yearly fluctuation for a area of 4.5 million people. [Source: ]
So, since WND doesn't provide citations for their claims, and the statistics on the first two I looked up on academically credible sources show them to be completely and utterly lying through their teeth, I'm going to assume I can stop here, rather than go through the entire thing for the next hour to show why each and every sourceless claim cannot be taken as verifiable fact. If, however, you think I haven't demonstrated enough, feel free to read this handy little guide Note how they properly source all of their refutations so that you can check for yourself? THAT is how you tell credible sources from liars like WND. If you can't trace a fact back to legitimate, trustworthy, primary source, then the site making the fact claim is not a credible source.
And for some reason, Nbc is blocking me from posting links the Australian Governments institute of Criminology >.< This is the snopes article that I basically reformatted to make the case, and they use all of the same citations that I placed in my last comment that nbcnews so kindly decided to censor pes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp [take the space out from between the o and the p to fix the link. I don't know why NBC hates links all of a sudden
And they censor it again. Love how the newsvine claims to want discussion, then hinders any ability use sources to back up claims. Lovely. [snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp] Let's see if removing the three "w"'s works.
it just exploded into flames like Waco...sure it did we trust the law enforcement...
HAHA david moron
"got a source?"
Does it matter? You obviously only care to see your own idiotic agenda and trust propaganda machines that fill your head with swill. WE should only consider MSDNC a valid reference, they would never lie to their brain dead cretins.
I agree with those who argue that criminals would not comply with gun-control legislation. But that's not the point. Non-criminals can quickly become criminals if they have anger mangement problems, poor impulse control, and the motivation and means to do so. It's called human nature, and there are ample examples of this in the history books (e.g., Nazis and the once ordinary law-abiding Germans who committed horrific acts). People were not born criminals. Background checks, mental health evaluations, limits on carrying concealed weapons, and a ban on assault weapons is, therefore, not too much to ask for.
cory1980
And just how exactly do you propose to enforce such a law, requiring background checks on everyone? Unless the we register all guns, we have no idea who has what or how many of what. Say I sold a gun to so and so before the law goes into effect, and so and so sells it to a criminal after the law, but does no back ground check. Am I now on the hook? I don't have any records of the guns I have had in the past, and this is 30 or more years. And if you think I am going to register all my guns, think again. Registration leads to confiscation.
And background checks are done at all the above mentioned places. I even have to have a background check done to get MY own gun out of pawn. The only time a background check is not required is for private sells in states, counties and municipalities that do not require it. My city requires a background check on ALL guns transferred in city limits, to include private sales. But there is no way to enforce it, unless maybe the cops do a sting operation.
And why should we destroy a gun used in a crime? should we destroy the cash seized from drug dealers? or any other of their property? Why not auction them off to gun dealers, like they sell other seized property to generate revenue for the dept.
I did have a source. Nbcnews simply would not let me put it. My sources are the same sources used by the snopes page I linked in my last thing, and they are all direct from the Australian Government agencies that record data on crime.
marywhatever
Well, that is one of those double edged swords. On the one hand, they put themselves in harms way to help protect us, so yeah, I can see stiffer penalties for those who would do them harm. But at the same time, I hold them to higher standard, and penalties should be higher for them too, if they should commit a crime, on or off the clock.(but that goes for all government employees)
On the other hand, I agree with you that they are in a sense, no better than us, as we are ALL US Citizens. And one thing that really bothers me is the special treatment the Left gives the police in reference to Firearms. One of the things I find so amusing is all the movies made about corrupt cops, both fantasy and based on true stories, and they still call for only the police to have guns. Don't get me wrong, I believe the overwhelming majority of police are good, honest people, but they are still susceptible to the same corruptions, and probably on the same per capita basis as we.
I have seen several studies that show there is a lower instance or incidence of crime among CCW holders and the general population, and some instances the police. I have also personally known several Sheriff's Deputies, nice guys, but I wouldn't really call them Responsible Citizens. But because of their association to law enforcement, they can obtain automatic firearms.
Snope is NOT reputable well except for the left wing views........research a bit and you might under.
takenaka Comment collapsed by the community
....so that we sheep can be pacified by a false sense of security.
There. Finished your thought for you.
Easily found on Google. Banning guns DOES raise crime rates.
godfatherpolitics.com/8975/australian-gun-ban-resulted-in-hi -
world.time.com/2012/12/17/when-massacres-force-change-lesson
aaenemies.blogspot.com/2012/12/what-happened-when-guns-banne
www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/15/The-Aussie-Lesso
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread869199/pg1
www.wnd.com/2000/03/1933/ -
Here's a few from England that proves the point as well
townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/11/gun-crime-soar
www.politics.co.uk/reference/gun-crime -
www.humanevents.com/2012/12/15/gun-crime-soars-in-england-by
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-154307/Gun-crime-soars-35.h
www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/gun-crime-soars-in-england-
Get the pyrotechnics out of the cops hands. Burning them out is not an effective tool at procuring a fugitive. This is becoming more common that nuts with guns.
As many have said, they are criminals, so gun control wouldn't matter to them! Some people are too DUMB for their own good! I have some info for the police, they were last seen heading to Colorado, to start another grow house....
The perps were destroying evidence and set the fire...DUH!
Those tear gas canisters have worked real well for them since Waco.
The place was surrounded yet they got away??
Quit writing gibberish, say something useful for once.
Can I ask all you anti gun idiots out there......What good is going to come of taking lawful guns away from lawful citizens? Do you really think that is going to stop the criminals and crazies out there with guns????? They have no regard for life and the lives they take in their drive by's, robberies, etc. PUULLEEEEZZZZE people. I have the right to bear arms, and no one is going to take the right away from me!!!
The writing of reporters for Internet news is a shameful disgrace and reflects poorly on our education system.
Good grief, can't you people take just a little time to at least look like professionals? I actually cringe in embarrassment for you when I read these articles. One or two on a sensational news breaking story is understandable, but on a daily basis, several stories a day, makes you look like a third rate hack news station.
Oh come on mimi there's a funny side to this. Seems they were cooking meth in an indoor pot farm. Why do you think they call it dope?
Bunkie, nobody wants to take guns away from legal gun owners, just want to ensure we're not arming psychos and criminals.
"No one's taking my guns!!!"
What a tool. The scare machine got him. No reasoning with insane so why not have fun with it?
Yes! We are coming to take your guns! I will be at your house tonight to take your guns!! Because that is exactly what the public discussion is about! Taking your guns!!!!!!!
Good luck with that one Richardharrow......see where it will get you! Bring it on!
LMAO!!!! Look! He can type too. Next teach him how to smoke a cigarette! Grasping sarcasm? Too advanced.
Bunkie,
1. No one wants to take your guns. Better back ground checks and bans on certain kinds of weapons will not impinge on your right to own guns so that you can shoot ferocious bunnies, tin cans, intruders, etc. Have fun.
2. Your right to own a gun is derived from the society in which you live, and interpretations of our Constitution, the meanings of which are not always clear. It made sense for citizens to bear arms in the 18th century, when we had no standing army. It does not make sense for 21st century American citizens to own nuclear bombs, surface to air missles, tanks, or whatever else they feel they must own in order to defend themselves against liberals, Mexicans, gays, uppity women, Commies, the president, our own police forces and military, vegetarians, people from parts of New Jersey, etc.
3. You are a member of society, and all living societies change. We no longer think it good to own slaves, beat wives, or send kids to work in mills. Society has every right to change, impose, regulate, and enforce gun laws. If your response to this is to "go to war" with that society, then you don't probably belong in it.
Stop the WAR FOR DRUGS....Try to eliminate as many avenues of BLACK MARKET & UNDER-GROUND economies as possible (eg. legalize prostitution)........invoke the employment E-CARD VERIFICATION system.......
We will see crime and murder virtually go away..........
Can it be done?
NOPE!!!
Because, from the Pope to Billy Graham, we believe a GOD is watching us and will punish us. Yet God through Jesus Christ commands us to love and allow God and only, GOD be the judge of morality.
Yes, we must protect the young and innocent, so no pass for child molesters and the like:
But, first: LEGALIZE THE WEED.......
William I didn't see anywhere that it said they had the place surrounded.
Hans-285771
Bunkie,
Well I guess to you a gun is a gun is a gun. What difference does it make?
This is why we can not have a decent discussion with you Liberals, first you have no understanding of firearms, and Second you have not understanding of the Constitution, and third Hans, you obviously have no understanding of Rights.
How will banning "certain kinds of weapons" not infringe on my Right to own such firearms?
My question to all you Liberals is this, "If you don't like our society, the way it is, why don't you move to somewhere more suited to your likes, such as England, or else where in Europe, where they have guns laws "that work"? Why must I change to fit your Ideal?" No one is making you stay here.
Here's the answer to all these problems and it is directed directly at our government.
Quit making up new laws.
Enforce "all" the laws currently on the books.
This applies across the board, Guns, Immigration, Voting, Personal rights, and so on.
But the government wants to "make up" or "Add" new laws so that it is even more ridiculous and confusing for everyone.
Ever wonder why we need attorneys? Its because the laws have been twisted, bent, and combined so that the average person cannot make sense out of them anymore.
We were all taught in grade school what is right and wrong, later on we are taught even more on how to become part of society and laws were shown to be a huge part of that process but I swear to God that that all politicians went to a different school as they have no clue when it comes to dealing with being anything like a normal person.
Please make up some new laws for us citizens to follow, we love it when you help us out so much with these new laws that stop all these problems from getting out of hand. We totally understand the laws "already on the books" weren't spelled out properly for us to follow and that is why you "do not enforce them".
Wow, I almost made a fool of myself and didn't get it and I would have looked so stupid so thanks to all of you folks in the white house for your understanding on this huge/little matter.
Lastly, I'm still waiting for your answer though on why you never enforce those laws already on the books that our fore fathers wrote up for us all to follow? Is it possible that maybe you consider yourselves above those laws since your not following them, sure seems like a someone is making this whole process harder than it should be but since there is nothing else wrong in our society I guess you needed something to do, yeah I understand.
muddiemike
"Ever wonder why we need attorneys? Its because the laws have been twisted, bent, and combined so that the average person cannot make sense out of them anymore." And all because we get lawyers involved, it's a vicious circle.
My solution is to Ban Lawyers from running for Office. I see it as a conflict of interest. The lawyers get into the legislature, and make more convoluted, conflicting and crazy laws, and everyone has to have an attorney to figure it all out.
BAN LAWYERS...
Good call Mike, keep up the good fight.
"The intelligence of a people is inversely proportional to the size of city and the length of time spent there in". Robert Reedy 1980
“To paraphrase Chairman Mao: Freedom and Oppression are dispensed from the END of a gun. Which END are you on?” Robert Reedy 2008
And to the right-minded people here, remember to vote up those you agree with. Or add a Kudos or a Ditto as a comment.
Guns and drugs.
Which one is legal and which one is not is backwards in this country.
You mean the Country that is headed backwards don't you?
WilliamOfRites
Guns and drugs.
Which one is legal and which one is not is backwards in this country.
Because everyone knows that shooting a .22 rifle is much more dangerous to the public than shooting Heroin. You can really tell the people that were raised in the Country & the ones raised in the City just by their thought process. The ones that can take care of themselves & the ones that need someone to take care of them.
Yeah, keep on believing in your vaunted macho self-sufficiency. Why don't you take your guns, bible, canned food, and womenfolk and hunker in your bunker until the apocalypse?
I'm about as liberal as they come and an atheist. I am not a right-wing fundamentalist but I still support the 2nd amendment and do not want to see my rights infringed.
All of the drugs are illegal.
All of the guns of law abiding citizens are legal.
Think about banning fire, though.
Eric,
Calm down. No one is going to take your doll.
William,
Use you're head for something besides a paper weight!
How many people are killed with guns on a daily basis. How many people die smoking marijuana in the comfort of their own home on a dailly basis. Which one is illegal?
How many people are killed with guns because of marijuana on the boarder?
How many people are killed because of heroin or cocaine in chicago, NY, miami, southern california?
Compare the number of deaths RELATED TO DRUGS to the deaths caused by guns that are UNRELATED to drugs....
Amazing how quickly sam adams flacid impotent argument becomes a limp biscuit.
.
Well, any argument goes out the window when you shoot yourself in the foot with one sentence then change the topic with the next sentence... Debate is not your strong suit "Doctor"
Dr. Alchemy-
Maybe if we end the War on Drugs the gun deaths based on drug traffic will significantly decrease. It's interesting how you're against regulations when it comes to the second amendment, but you're all for them when it comes to the ninth amendment and by extension, the fourth amendment.
For the record, I'm for gun ownership within reason. It has nothing to do with defending myself against the government or some notion of government 'tyranny' - if they want you, your .22 won't save you and will probably get others killed alongside you. No, I'm for gun ownership due to the rantings and ravings of the pro gun people who's posts I regularly read and who frankly scare the heck out of me moreso than any street gang - threatening 2nd amendment remedies if an election doesn't go their way. This is a representative government that WE THE PEOPLE elect - it is our will. Some of the rhetoric out there seems to ignore that fact.
Eric the Dick Head
Thanks for your thoughts but I don't own a bunker. I do own, out right, my 3 bedroom brick home on an acre & own three other pieces of property & another home. All payed for. I do hunt & fish on my other properties & could support myself real well if needed. As opposed to sniveling Lefurds like you that needs the Governement, Grocery Stores & Starbucks to survive. Maybe if you got outside, in the Country & got your hands dirty every now & then, you wouldn't be such a stuck up ass hole. People like me & my kind is what made this Country & people like you & your kind are the ones that will drag it down. You should thank people that actually work hard for a living, they make it easy for limp wristed ass wipes like you.
The war on drugs is a failure. BTW... Marijuana is not a drug. It is an herb. It was made illegal when the lumber industry lined the pockets of politicians to keep the hemp industry from undermining their profits. When hemp (not marijuana) was made illegal, marijuana fell under the laws too because they are of the the same family genus although completely different plants.
Even with strict gun control laws, outlaws will STILL get guns. Look at Chicago, Mexico, Detroit, blah, bla, blah bla....
I'm sure they're just patriots, resisting tyranny.
No, I'd say more like drug dealers feeding the habits of other law breakers.
I was thinking along the same lines, Early - just another case of responsible gun owners "defending their castle" from the bad ol' gummint.
No, they're just like the other "tyranny resisters" among us. They've decided that certain laws infringe on their freedoms, so they're fighting back. That's the inherent problem with having individuals decide what constitutes "tyranny."
If 4 or 5 jetliners crashed and burned in the USA every month,with the death of all aboard...the government would be lax,if it didn't halt all flights,till the problem was established. Yet,the number of killings by gunshots amounts to that many deaths in the USA,monthly.
Most of the citizens of developed nations around the world, are puzzled by our Wild West attitude about gun rights and gun possession, which border on,or are reckless in the extreme. Our media is filled with gun violence.
@liam-1161783
Please site a source for your ridiculous claim.
Early and Joey,
as the story and XD clearly pointed out, these were/are suspected criminals engaged in a criminal activity. when confronted by LEO's they proceeded to burn the evidence and engaged in a shoot-out to attempt an escape.
quit trying to take things to the extreme to fit your obvious anti-gun agenda.
go educate yourself
XDm9mm,
I am not taking sides in the argument, but I did go check if there was any information about the number of deaths by gunshot wound (and so it could be a whole bunch of other things going on).
(I found a source on the A B C network but when I posted it it would not allow me to paste it, so it's
abcnews dot go dot com / blogs / headlines / 2012 / 08 / guns-in-america-a-statistical-look
it says there have been 48,000 deaths between 2006 and 2010, so about 12,000 a year. Divide that by 12 months, and it's about 1,000 a month. If jetliners have about 200-250 people each (which is the capacity of most planes), I would say that Liam is statistically accurate in suggesting what he suggested.
I am sure other sources could be found, but that one was the first one I checked. ABC being a little more center than NBC, I thought their numbers might be correct.
Just saying...
Early out,
You have a point. I mean, Obama just ignores the laws he does not like. Why should anyone else obey laws that they disagree with?
Valerio-1961
Actually, per FBI statistics, firearm deaths in the USA number about 8,000. However, those numbers include, suicide, justifiable shootings, police shootings and of course the gangbanger killing gangbanger.
I will agree that ABC is at least a little less obvious in their bias, but they do have an anti-gun bias none-the-less.
Have a great day.
And of those firearm deaths listed, suicide is by far the largest number. Gun control will lower those deaths little if any.
Valerio-1961 Yes the numbers that you state are correct but i feel must be explained a little. Those numbers include all murders, accidential shootings and self inflicted gun shots. So to go with your logic according to the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) there were 36,200 automobile caused deaths in 2012. Now that is three times more than you stated and nothing is being done there. See you can say anything you wish with numbers but most have no real meaning.
Narcotics officers investigating a grow house. We have suspected felons with firearms that decide to shoot at the police. I love how the anti gun side keeps twisting the facts. Obviously these people were not law abiding citizens. i guess we should make everything legal except guns, that seems to be what the far left really want. Yes guns were made to kill, so were swords, spears, arrows, sling, hand axe, even a hammer. These were all originally designed to be weapons. If your afraid of guns, simple don't own one. If your worried about your neighbor legally owning one, simple move to Chicago. You can ban anything you want, I'm sure the criminals will cooperate.
If we lose the Second Amendment the First will not be far behind it. Our government does not want to gun control to save lives they want people control.
You asked for it and Valerio gave it to you.
EarlyOut-1524710
No, they're just like the other "tyranny resisters" among us. They've decided that certain laws infringe on their freedoms, so they're fighting back. That's the inherent problem with having individuals decide what constitutes "tyranny."
EarlyOut - You ROCK!
Jon: good point but at least we could eliminate a great deal of stigma about guns and ownership through proof that the majority of gun deaths in the states each year are suicides.. That would go a long way toward cleaning the firearm image itself, and would help put the spotlight back on mental health issues... Which it was blessedly on for a few weeks but seems to have slid back onto guns and their ownership for the most part.
I mean , if nothing else , at least it would cut the number of gun deaths itself by a majority. But then again if somebody is going to kill themself, they should be allowed to do it fast and (hopefully if they do it properly) painlessly for the most part. The ones I'm most concerned about are the ones who want to take other people with them... Guys like Adam Lanza
liam-1161783
So do you always just make up a bunch of bull @!$%# to try and prove your point? Surely you don't think anyone is stupid enough to believe this gibberish?
I have a brilliant idea. Let's ban Criminals. That would fix the problem.
soat
Thats what we are trying to do with some Gun Control.
gunga
Reading your remarks I think you are the King of dumb.
It will keep some guns out of criminals hands.
gun control isn't about making the acquisition of firearms by criminals illegal, its about making legal gun owners criminal.
there are already laws on the books that deal with criminals and firearms, that's why the majority of them purchase their firearms illegally
please go educate yourself
Now this thread is comical. Some guns out of criminals hands. Hah. I'm with you Gunga, I think the dumba$$ in this conversation is pretty clear.
Great idea. Remove "most" guns. Leave no guns with good guys, and only a few guns with bad guys. Hmm. Interesting concept. You try it and let us know how that works out. Maybe Chicago would be a good testing ground for that one.
And they wonder why we're in trouble.
Grandpa,
How would "some gun control" ban criminals? We have gun control. Enforce the laws we have.
Guns make a difference!
Look at Sand Creek, Wounded Knee, hundreds of innocent Native Americans murdered!!! If these Indians had guns, it would have been a different story, ask Custer.
The Government is getting out of hand!
Quit having "Childlike faith" in the Government!
hey, I have an idea...let's ban certain guns and create an even LARGER black market for them, that should work,and it should make more millionares like the kennedys. The taxes they will pay should help out the country.
Gramps ...... brilliant!
You think gun control is going to work with criminals? Only law abiding citizens will be affected.
And more on topic, drug dealers are not law abiding citizens. So by extension, your argument is illogical. Try getting off the Obama-wagon for half a heartbeat and thinking for yourself for a change. You will be endlessly refreshed in doing so.
"It will keep some guns out of criminals hands." Grandpa.
And ONLY when you can guarantee that NO criminals have guns, will you get mine. Until then, I'll keep mine, just in case some of the ones you MISS are used against me.
Gun Control will just control people that abide the law. Not the Criminals. If they followed the law, they wouldn't be Criminals.
Not what I said. I said it would help. Try to pay attention.
that's the problem Gramps, gun control in the past hasn't shown that it prevents criminals from acquiring and/or using firearms in the commission of crimes.
they are criminals because they break the law. adding more laws isn't going to make them less criminal
enforce the laws that are already on the books
Grandpa,
Yeah, criminals would certainly obey the new laws.
Please explain to me how gun control will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and not just out of the hands of law abiding citizens.
Ok Grampa, I'll bite, precisely how do you envision gun control helping to keep guns out of some criminals hands?
This ought to be interesting!
Monkey see Monkey do. It's all the media's fault for showing in detail what these murderes do in killing others then setting their house on fire. Media censorship is needed so the violence will subside.......
so you are in favor of repealing the first amendment?
Lori,
So you are in favor of repealing the 2nd Amendment?
As usual, the pro and anti gun proponents are out supporting their positions.
Guys, the only way EFFECTIVE gun control can work is, if we amend the constitution to do away with that '2nd Amendment', then, ban ALL firearms.
As for the criminals, well, a cheap way to take care of them would be to contact Putin and see if he could re-open some 'Gulags' for us. That way, we can outsource the incarceration part and save a hunk of money.
Kind of like our war on drugs & banning illegal drugs? Prohibition? Banned all alcoholic beverages, that worked out real well , didn't it? How about we ban all illegal aliens? All 11 million of them? Our track record of banning things & people is miserable.
Therefore, we should allow everything? Is that what 'freedom' means to you?
I see someone had a heaping bowl of Captain Crack this morning.
SRK
while we're at it, let's just go ahead and do away with the rest of the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights. Let's let our governement control ever aspect of our lives from where we live, to what we eat, to what we can buy, what we name our children, etc. etc. etc.
we can trust our government.....just ask the American Indians
myname,
don't forget the murder of thousands of babies before they are born aswell, and spending this country into a hellhole, gutting out military, etc etc etc
but yep....let's ban all firearms..... they be bad. and you know banning drugs and alcohol has worked so well in the past
Yes, I would support an amendment to the constitution to ban guns over some sneaky back door approach to erode our rights. Our constitution exists to protect individual rights. If a large enough majority wants to change the 2nd amendment I could live with that.
Captive,
I could NOT live with it. When they try to take away our basic rights, it is no longer the USA and deserves no allegiance.
amending the constitution to ban guns IS ERODING OUR RIGHTS!!!
wow captive-would you really support putting us at the mercy of these politicians? how un-american of you, I will bet you complain about how crooked this goverment is and you want to let them have absolute power? You are about as rediculous as granpa who can't even remember what alcohol prohibition created.
No worries.
Simply proposing a constitutional amendment takes a 2/3 vote in congress. That is not going to happen, let alone 3/4ths of the states ratifying it if the proposal passes. All the gnashing of teeth in the world can't change that.
Our constitution at work. Thank you founding fathers. You were a bunch of smart old dudes!
.
@ Eric the Red, that was pretty much the plan back when we got started! In fact, the Constitution and its Bill of Rights entire purpose was to keep the government in check so we could be that free. This stuff you and your ilk are trying to pull, is an unwanted circumvention of that purpose.
Of course, you're well read and you know all of this already, so what's your point in this thread?
Being oppositional to America's Constitutional freedoms can only mean that you're either unable to grasp the concept or that you hold a deep hatred for them due to either your political or religious indoctrinations. In either instance, I find your oppositional disdain rather bothersome if you're an American and jealously predictable if you're not.
@ Captive, Changing the Constitution is a slippery slope to be traversing. Even if you were to change it, what would you change it into? We can't get two posters here to agree on anything much less over half of the 300,000,000 voters. Two hundred plus years into it our forefathers still had it right, leave it alone or anarchy will surely ensue. Arguably, this has been the single most politically devisive situation I have ever experienced in my lifetime; second only to the Vietnam War.
Small business just can't get a break in Florida :) Lets see how many these ones can take out.
SRK, do you HONESTLY believe that banning guns will curb crime?
(eyeroll)
And we wonder WHY this country is so messed up?
im finding it disturbing that FIRE is still a common tactic when police are denied entry, im not siding w criminals i just think that tactic is disturbing.
maybe that's because strong rhetoric just doesn't seem to work with these people.
Doesn't bother me if they come here illegaly and chit up our neighborhoods and F-up our kids...Burning them out sounds fitting to me...On the other hand , since there is some corruption in law enforcement, I am not in favor of a total police state...Doesn't really matter anymore since we have crosses the point of no return so just arm yourselves and hope your right...
Ummm, the criminals set the fire to cover their escape - - which obviously worked (for 2 of them, at least).
You might want to re-read the article. The bad guys started the fire, ostensibly to cover their mistake and destroy evidence in the house.
Michael, you must have missed the part about the suspects setting their house on fire. Read the aricle again.
police went to check on a possible grow house ,a pot house ,how many people die from pot anyway .do you smell what im cooking so the whole county is high.
When a situation like this goes south, I don't understand why they don't immediately diffuse the situation by packing up and leaving. Let things return to normal quickly. Let the folks go back home, and let the crooks think they got away with it. They can pick them up at later at a local hangout, no muss, no fuss.
As for gun control, yeah right get real. It works as well as our elected leaders and we all know how thats working out. I for one am tired of my rights being trampled on in the name of some "JUST CAUSE". I have the right as a human being to protect myself anyway I have too. I am a firm believer in being judged by 12 rather than dead by 1.
REALLY???? Diffuse the situation after they already shot at the police?
"Oh, sorry boys, we didn't mean to intrude on your illegal activities, so we'll just go our merry way and you can continue doing what you want."
That's basically what you're saying.
Exactly right, diffuse the situation and leave. It turned into a clusterfuk. LEAVE. Less damage, less loss of life. Pick em up later this is a residential neighborhood, the bad guys want to get away at all cost. LET EM. They aint going far are they !!!
With that theory, any scumbag would only need to fire at the police because they know the police will leave.
Brilliant.
If the LEO just left the situation they wouldn't get to play with all their fancy toys.
Fed,
The LEO's were there to investigate a suspected grow house. key word their is "investigate". that means that the LEO's more than likely were serving a warrant nor were they there to perform a dynamic entry on the suspected criminals residence. they were there poking around to see what they could find before obtaining a warrant (more than likely...as i wasn't there i can't say for certain...just speculation)
from the story we can gleam that they suspected criminals saw the LEO's and decided to set fire and to destroy the evidence that would be used to convict them of their crimes. i can bet you that all of the suspects have a criminal history. these jokers set fire to their own house rather than get caught and proceeded to have a fire fight with the LEO's. these guys were prepared for that obviously. they weren't just going to return to their daily routines once they had seen the LEO's
it appears that the suspected criminals engaged the LEO's....not the other way around. so your scenerio wouldn't have worked in the first place
sorry
Wow . . . that has to be the single worst suggestion I've heard about incidents like this. Not only would is encourage any one who risks arrest to just start shooting so they'll get a free get-away (as XDm9mm rightly points out), it is also generally excepted that if someone is willing to immediately start firing on officers to prevent being arrested, they are a) armed, and b) willing and of the mindset to kill people, and you are suggesting that police just let them walk away? You do realize that "away" means back into the public, right? As in, to where innocent, unarmed civilians are. You know, the kind of civilians that police are sworn to protect and serve. The kind that people with guns who've already decided that they are willing to kill and are panicking and expecting police to show up at any second have a tendency to either use as hostages or kill outright in desperation. And what is to stop the armed, willing to kill man from shooting when police move to pick them up later? Also, what stops the armed man from going to a place full of civilians, like a bar, or a club, or a school, where a shootout would lead to massive collateral damage well beyond the initial confrontation.
And all of this relies on police knowing the exact identity of people who shoot at them, and where they can be found later, something officers don't always have the luxury of knowing. It also assumes that when officers turn to leave they aren't shot in the back. Part of the reason officers engage in gunfights is because shooting back at someone reduces their ability to effectively line up a shot and kill you.
LMAO, re-read the article. Investigating, caught looking, bad guys fire on police, police fire back and run for cover, house burns, bad guys are gone.
Meanwhile residents cant get back in. Kids are at home whatever, safe situation, hardly. Get the hell out of there. End of story.
so you are saying that LEO's don't need to be investigating suspected criminals, because it might upset them and cause them to burn stuff down and engage in shoot outs. the LEO's just need to leave everyone well enough alone because these suspected criminals were obviously not doing anything wrong
you aren't making a whole hellvalot a sense
Stop being an idiot. The situation went south. The bad guys were known by the police to be GONE. What part of that dont you understand !!!!!
FedUp, c'mon man, quit arguing a dead point. The police CAN'T back down once engaged. It has nothing to do with pride or wanting to "play with their toys," and everything to do with law ENFORCEMENT. Look up the meaning of the word ENFORCEMENT. It doesn't mean ask nicely, speak softly, back down when challenged. The cops' job is to ENFORCE legally ratified laws. Period.
Besides, in this case the house was on fire so they COULDN'T just walk away.
Why don't you and your ilk place the blame where it REALLY belongs, which is on the bad guys that are growing, selling, earning money off the controlled substances, then decide to implement violence when someone gets in their way? Why, oh why, do people like you decide it's always the fault of the human being wearing the uniform when a bad guy decides to take a situation "south?"
By your logic, if you were being held hostage and the bad guy started shooting at the cops trying to rescue you, they should just walk away and wait till they find the guy relaxing at the bar after a hard day's work. You may be dead, any evidence that they killed you may be destroyed, but the cops diffused a dangerous situation that "went south" by walking away and waiting for the bad guy to calm down.
Thanks to those officers for doing their job.
Are people really this dense and cannot comprehend what they read.
1 The situation was OVER.
2 Bad Guys are known by police to be GONE.
3 Call the fire dept, open the area back up, let mom back to her kids.
4 Read it applies to this situation non of your fantasy cases.
Fed,
when last i read the article (just now), the situation wasn't OVER. there are still suspected criminals on the loose. the LEO's were warning the surrounding areas to stay inside so they aren't in danger. please go read again...then again....then once more until you understand the words that are in the article.
1. the situation wasn't over and it still isn't over. the LEO's were investigating a grow house when they were fired upon. the suspected criminals then set fire to the evidence and escaped. there is a manhunt in progress as i type because they don't know where the suspected criminals are. they could still be in the area, so it isn't safe to let the residence back in
2. no, they aren't KNOWN to be gone. the LEO's don't know where they are, which is why they are hunting for them.
3. you can't open the area back up until
- the suspected criminals are apprehended
- an investigation in the crime area is completed, including the house and surrounding areas
- the fire is put out and the area is deemed safe
are you really this dense to not understand what is going on? do you lack the proper reading comprehension skills to process what you have read?
please go back and read the article again.
Fed, that has to be the silliest thing I have ever heard.
"THE THREE MEN SUBSEQUENTLY FLED THE SCENE"
Damn morons learn to read.
So diffuse and let mom back to her kids!
Fed,
of course they fled the scene....they set the daggum house on fire. they might have still been in the AREA, hence why the area was still blocked off. the LEO's didn't know where the suspects were and were doing their due dilligance to keep the public safe. can't you get that through your thick skull. not only that, but since this was an officer involved shooting and apparently a body in the burned house there is going to have to be a thourough investigation. you can't just open the area back up and contaminate the area and compromise any evidence that you might be able to collect. stop being an idiot and do some common sense thinking. the LEO's can't just open the area back up
talk about morons learning to read, i don't think anywhere in the story it talked about a mother being seperated from her children. so, please take a page out of your own book and not only learn to read, but also learn to comprehend the words that you are actually reading
If these guys on the loose would just go to some libs house where there are no guns and hole up, eat their food, rape their women and steal all their valuables they would learn a lesson!
Then the police can show up with yellow tape and make it all better!
@ iz,
and how have all the gun nuts in Florida solved this problem??? According to the story - the police are looking for these people, not the NRA and certainly not any gun enthusiasts...
I am a gun owner and if they were to try and hole up at my house the police would find em----
DOE
BobbyG,
How did the gun nuts in Florida have anything to do with this incident?
Izamyt,
The left still won't get it.
Wow, no racial rhetoric compared to what was given to Chris Dorner. Americans are just a bunch of hypocritical racists!! I see how it is. You have white men who shoot guns and are involved with narcotics, its ok, but a black man gets scrutinized and stereotyped. Americans need to understand the REALITY of the 21st Century and that is, drugs, guns, and violence are no longer just a black mans crime.
Take your meds you nut, two entirely different situations !!!!!
Play the race card. No wonder you go by TinyPenis1234
I don't believe anyone has ever said that drug, firearm and violent crimes have ever been "a black man's crime." At least nobody with any intellect. If anyone were to actually conduct any viable research, they'd find that petty crime escalates with the plummeting economy. Thus, regions or peoples toward the lower end of the current socioeconomic trends would have a higher rate of such crimes. Throughout the years we have seen an ebb and flow of petty and violent crimes and surges in gang power with the converse maneuver in economical status. Wherein the economy is strong, the petty crime rate has dropped and vise-versa. People can argue about gun control and behavioral control all day. These crimes will continue to progress regardless of what laws are placed in front of them until the economy begins to recover.
I'm sorry, where in this article is it saying that it's "ok" for these men to have fired at officers because they are white?
"These individuals obviously attempted to kill an officer so the very minimum you're gonna have attempted murder on a law enforcement officer"
Huh, that's odd, the information in the article makes it very clear that they are pushing for very serious charges (which is reasonable, given the offense). It also makes very clear that officers fired back at the men. So . . . how, exactly, did police treat this differently based on race? They shot back, and they are pressing full charges against the two arrested. I'm really failing to see what has Tiny's knickers in a twist
TinePeePee, your racism is showing man! Try to cover it!
WTH are you talking about? I stayed on top of the Donner crap and didn't see ANY mention of "only blacks do this kind of stuff"All I saw was more stupid political name calling and gun control crap. BUT...
The Justice System needs bans to create customers for their commerce...the Justice System would ban Q-Tips if that's what it took to keep the courts and prisons full...in a town in my state they had a jail that held 110 prisoners which was always full...then they built a jail that would hold 300 prisons and refurbished the 110 person jail...now both jails a full...if they only had a 25 person jail that would be full but the lawyers and bail bond businesses would be screaming bloody murder...the Justice System isn't about justice it's about legal fees...
All you folks should be part of govenment you agrue more than offer any real helpful ideas LMAO
quite a few real and helpful ideas have been presented at the anti-gun crowd on multiple occasions and i have yet to find many that would engaged in a healthy debate without resorting to name calling this, right wing gun nut that, etc.
You're right, you was never here.
i see you are bring relevant info to this discussion...please, carry on
Okay
North Korea came out and blatantly said it would use it nukes to destroy South Korea our ally
downplayed
Iran is building a nuke and they have said they intend to destroy our other ally Israel
downplayed
The US economy is crawling along at a snails pace where more people live in poverty than ever before
downplayed
etc etc etc
and MSNBC sees the need to report front and center every local shooting story that occurs very often incorrectly and at times appearing to report inaccurately intentionally.
Is there an agenda by a supposed independent "news" agency at play here?
No Victor... not at all, it's all in your imagination. (OK.. sarcasm button turned off now!)
But you did neglect to mention that we're STILL waiting for the full story on Fast and Furious and the even more disturbing Benghazi incident.
They'll do anything to deflect and obfuscate what the real issues are.
Yes, how dare the "U.S." section of the news site focus on things that happen in the United States and report things that happen regarding the world news in the "World" section of the website? Those bastards, putting the news in categories that can be easily searched through and accessed by readers based on geographical characteristics and common sense!
so David,
a possible nuclear world war on TWO fronts
and/or the number of Americans now relying on food stamps to feed their kids
yeah those aren't national news stories that effect the stability of the Union at all
C'mon SELECTIVE reporting by the corporation that owns and operates the President of the US must be called what it is ---agenda driven propaganda---
not to mention when I commented it was not in the "national" section it was FRONTPAGE
bad man with gun kill people all guns bad uncle Joe says if you still scared and want to rely on yourself not others for your well being and safety buy double barrel shotgun shot in air like cowboy
C'mon so much crap is being done to the American people by the govt media complex we will wake up one day to find ourselves working state run farms
You've got to love the Great White Angry Middle Aged Males on this thread. One posts from his DogPatch Porch that cops should just look the other way at crime. Another blames the president for everything that has happened in the world since 2008 when he was duly elected. Another is engorging himself on sour grapes and still another thinks he has ALL the answers if only HE can trample everyone else's constitutional and civil rights. Yep...like a said...a bunch of dimwitted Lil Abners from DogPatch sucking up all our taxes while they sun themselves on their front porches with the hound and Lazy Daisy Mae.
How pathetic do you guys plan to get? It's more than obvious, idle time is the devil's workshop for some of you. How about get off your fat double wide asses and actually do something that helps the country instead of your incessant bitching? Is that all you guys learned in Daycare? Bitching non-stop and arguing all day long? I'm sure if you check, Daisy Mae could use a hand getting into her size 80D bazonga trap. What a pitiful commentary on today's middle aged men...and these loonies want us to believe they don't need testing for their mental health? Could fool me.
ewent,
i see you have a case of the hypocrites today (most days from what i have read from you).
all you do is resort to name calling, bitching and moaning because i and many others choose to stand up for our rights.
so, what important things have you done for this country?
you sound like a really angry women......i'm sorry that somewhere in your past a man pissed you off. truely i am. but don't you think engaging in civilized debate about these issues would be better than just name calling to those whose opinion differs from yours
Another blames the president for everything that has happened in the world since 2008 when he was duly elected.
Where have you read all these things? I haven't even seen Obama's name mentioned on even one post. Your middle aged harmones are getting the best of you.
So the new police tactic is " Come out or we will burn your friggin house down"?
Uhmmmm... I will submit that the "residents" started the fire in their apparent successful attempt at fleeing the scene.
Only if you are shooting at them, Zoid. Then tough luck to the criminals.
it appears as if the suspected criminals started the fire in a effort to escape and to destroy all of the evidence
The USA constitution states, in big bold letters, WE THE PEOPLE, not WE THE GOVERNMENT! So, if there is going to be gun control, then they need to be taken away from all law enforcement, and politicians, then WE keep ours... that way would be perfect gun control. Tommy
Zoid, good to see you didn't read the article.
Killer cops are dangerous to civil society.
I'm sorry. I didn't realize the Miami drug trafficking community was civil.
@Hansome
and you have a better idea for an agency to enforce the multitude of laws, help raise money for local municipalites, respond to 911 situations....or are you just spouting off at the fingertips because the internet has given you a forum to spew verbal vomit just for the sake of spewing vomit from your keyboard
Ah, so it's okay to try to murder police officers just because a very small fraction of people who were police officers killed people?
i think that's what he was getting at.
some folks just have no respect. it's always someone else's fault when they are caught breaking the law. or its the evil LEO's tat made them do it
SMH, just one of the many things that is wrong with our society
Mindless citizens are a danger to a civil society.
On another note California already has very strict gun control laws and they have the most murders on a state level in the USA. By the way Chicago and D.C. have very strict gun laws and yep you guessed it, epic failure when it comes to murder rates,again some of the highest in the nation. I dont know what further evidence we need that this current form of gun control is a complete waste of time and mocks our intelligence.not to mention begins to eat away the 2nd ammendment.
It wont WORK ! We must be bold enough to address the root of crime,poverty,mental health,and to some degree the welfare state that has been created. When change is forged in these areas we will see a drop in crime as well as murder. Who will initiate the change needed in these areas? As of now i see Obama trying to take our guns,and our 2nd ammendment,but nothing in the way of real help where it is really needed.
Cowboy 69...You so-called "cowboys" who haven't seen a cow in your natural born lives will post anything pro-gun won't you? Your numbers don't even remotely come close to those in Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta or New York City. If there is anything as silly and pretentious as a fully grown male calling himself a "cowboy," I can't imagine how much more "ignernt" this needs to get before they wake up and see what others see.
Now...tell McMommy her lil sweetums is playing for lethal weapons again. He might lose his microsized family jewels if lil sweetums isn't careful.
there you are again making wild assumptions about others that you don't know. i honestly believe that you have nothing relevant to add to these discussions and are here just to troll. you apparently bring nothing of value to the table so you just blather about things that you don't really understand.
if this were a rap group, you'd be the hype-man
I agree with you wasneverhere....
ewent is a useless trolling cow, grazing on the stale grass that is liberal "thinking".
if you can call that thinking.........
Got that COW part right. Hell, all her head can't even fit in a picture.
ding
I see from your avatar that you are proud to be Obama's bitch.
Dozens of police on the scene and three suspects fled the burning house and are at large. I'm sure the police department is under fire for allowing three men to escape. That's embarrassing! Keystone cops........what a joke. I'd fire the Police Chief and the detectives on the scene.
What good are police officers when they can't secure a crime scene and make an arrest? Where is George Zimmerman when you need him?
pretty obvious that you've never been in a combat situation with that statement. there are plenty of things that can go wrong or are overlooked when rounds are coming your way from down range.
Dozens of police at the scene? Where did you pick up that information?
How great it would be if we somehow could seek out all of these useless to civilized society scumbags and execute them like the animals they are. Every day in the headlines its a new gang of maggots harming civilized citizens. As for me personally , bring it on you worthless slimeball thugs!
Miami-Dade vigilance society?
Just more propaganda. A year ago this wouldn't have been a headline. Now every shooting in America is suddenly a headline. Wake up!
while you were checking stats on gun crimes in england, did you also ckeck, rape ,assault, and home invasion, in england ? I think i'd rather have my guns !