IT's,

I completely agree. They shouldn't lose their exemption and they shouldn't be forced to accept something, as they're a private membership organization. However, they also shouldn't be allowed to use one iota of anything in the public realm.

i completely agree with both of you. this is actually forcing an organization and that shouldn't be happening.

if they wish to discriminate, that is their choice - the solution should be to just stop supporting them and not allow any government support or use of public facilities (or anything that involves taxpayers dollars). it shouldn't be to force them by stripping their tax exemption.

BOA shouldnt be treated any different than any other charitable organization, just as other charitable organizations also have their own prejudices and viewpoints. Its not govts place to pick and chose who is politically correct and who isnt.

Its interesting...our government wants to take the tax ex. from the scouts but has no problem with all the churchs that also have that statis. How many other groups are not taxed ....how about the CPAC groups that politicans use .... there are many untaxed groups and businesses in this country...and it is only the citizen tax payers who foot the bills....and they are the ones with the least funds. If we are to be a nation with a fair tax base as many has claimed they want..why not tax everyone and every group..including all churchs and businesses......if the republicans do not want their wealthy friends taxed more then tax everyone exactly the same...no loop holes..no nothing no matter who you are or how wealthy you are. Lets also make congress have to come to the voters for any pay increases...benefit increases..that they alwasy hand out to themselves .

And while this sad excuse for a human (Ricardo Lara) is at it, maybe they should also tax donations to La Raza.

What in Gods' name is wrong with you people in CA.

Actually ALL tax-exempt status should be ended at all government levels. The entire 501 category has gotten totally out of hand over the years. The original intent was for the separation of church and state, but now anyone can find a loop-hole to declare themselves or their organization as "tax-exempt." One of those loop-holes is to go online, get yourself a "divinity" degree, and then declare yourself as being tax-exempt through that degree.

Every non-profit that is not a core religious group itself should not be funded or receive any tax preferences if they openly discriminate.

I personally think we should also tax religious groups, too, at least for property taxes. Non-profit status should not mean one can own millions of dollars in prime property and not have to pay property taxes while the rest of individuals and businesses all have to pay more to make up the difference.

BTW, have any of you considered the fact that tax-exemption is really the government using YOUR tax dollars to support these groups? That is why I'm in favor of eliminating ALL tax-exemptions.

What discrimination against "straight" people, Emery??? You don't begin to understand discrimination if you think that.

The govt doesnt "give" you anything without strings. They take YOUR money, add THEIR strings and bribe you with your own money.

I can't wait for the day that California floats off into the Pacific.

I'm gay, and I still think this bill is a very bad idea, precisely because of the slippery slope it will not just step onto, but flatout create. I agree that the Boy Scouts' loss of private funding is going to prove effective enough in convincing them that their policies are detrimental to their continued existence, and that it's enough that they be denied use of facilities and services funded with tax dollars.

Let them keep their tax-exempt status, because once we allow such status to be taken away on ideological grounds, it will lead to a difficult-to-imagine war that just isn't worth the trouble, especially when such changes in their policies for the better are already well on their way to being realized just through good old-fashioned social (and financial) pressure from the private sector.

That is not a fact anti trust. It is not the governments money in the first place. Regardless, you need to apply this equally, and make sure that any organization anywhere that has standards in place for membership lose it's TE status. Not just BOA.....black, hispanic, gay, baptist, disabled.....all of them....

To people like you, Standards = Discrimination, and you are wrong.

I think this sounds absurd, but you do want the policy to be "fair" right?

Why do lesbians need to separate themselves from gays? LGBT...... Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual & Transgender..... see? Is there any real difference in being GAY & being LESBIAN? Isn't lesbian just a sub-group of gay? All lesbians are gay, but not all gays are lesbians sort of thing......

And I want all of MY tax dollars withheld from anything that gives to LGBT organizations.......

Actually, the BSA conducts Annual Jamborees on some of our military facilities, especially here in Virginia, perhaps in other areas. So the availability of these facilities along with the assistance of military personnel who provide security and medical assistance is a form of tax contributions to the BSA. Let them go have their Jamborees at private facilities and pay the costs for facility use, security, etc. Do not use my tax dollars to help a bigoted organization. This is 2012, not 1912!

Church's pay for their own buildings... BSA use public schools, halls, military facs... if they want tax exempt, then pay for their own places to congregate.

Why do they receive tax exemptions anyway? No organization should be exempt from taxes. Its been a farce from the beginning. Why should they not pay for the services of the government that they utilize? Its ridiculous...

@BW-267706 - It is 2013, not 2012, and ironically you are behind your times. The 2010 Jamboree was the last one held at a military base (which the courts approved, btw). The BSA has since purchased a large privately owned property that is now the permanant home for all future Jamborees.

Is there any question that our beliefs are under attack? Call or write your Congressman and Senators and tell them youve had it. That you are not going to support him/her if they dont step in right now and give their full support to the Boy Scouts of America. Follow up that letter with another if they dont fully explain to what extent they are going to support the BSA.

Any group that has a history of following Gods Commandments is off limits to anyone that doesn't believe in the same. That group has the right to their beliefs and no one or government agency or elected person has the right to change their beliefs to suit their own selfish agenda.

Emery Evans

This is not discrimination by gays, or that gays hate straight people. Please show me where gays/lesbians are saying you cannot marry the person you love. The minute you can do that, then you can validate your comment.

JoeB-460595

First, slow down and read with comprehension. This was in my comment.

. I do not believe we tax other non profit organizations that have discriminatory policies, like the salvation army, the KKK, or the United Negro College fun.

I do not support removing the tax exemption status for ANY non profit (specifically private organizations) that have discriminatory practices. If its a private organization that does not receive tax payer support, then they can do whatever they want.

The BOA has the same right to have their discriminatory practices as well. However, since I live in a country where the United States Constitution says "We the People" and the Declaration of Independence says "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", my TAX Dollars should not be used by ANY PRIVATE organizations (including the BOA) that wants to discriminate against someone for any reason.

If we go with your mentality, then I think all gays/lesbians private organizations in the United States should get tax payer funded support immediately.

lets see what colleges will say when its revoked for them?

Although I don't think they should lose the tax exempt status.

LiberalsRCommies you need to go look at their website apparently they don't agree with you.

The LGBT community should just mind their own buisness...And us Straights will do the same...Don't bother us Straights, and we won't bother you...Simple enough...

LiberalsRCommies

Write your congressional Representative and ask them to tell you "Where GOD or the Commandments are mentioned anywhere in the United States Constitution" Guess what, they are not. You are 100% entitled to your christian beliefs, however, those beliefs are not the secular laws for the United States of America. In this country, secular law is higher than your religious beliefs.

Holy batcrap! I can't believe I'm agreeing with liberals! With that said, the posters who said this is a poor idea based on the slippery slope principle are dead on. They're also dead on that none of these should be directly funded by the taxpayer. Frankly, no organization that caters to a specific group deserves to receive tax money. The First Amendment gives them the right to say what they want. It doesn't require me to pay for it. Note though: I'm also including pet projects of the Progressive Left when I say this. No organization based on ideological principles should get financed by the government. Either it's a good idea and it will sell itself or it deserves to fade away when the people decide to stop donating. (Right or Left)

you people dont know jack about discrimination beyond what you are told. the federal government is full of discrimination but you people want to focus on a PRIVATE group that is voluntary and is not bound by the US constitution like government is. any group that caters to only certain segments of our populace, denies the rest and is represented in government is discrimination by definition and is unconstitutional. BSA is not represented in government and is entirely privately funded, any public locales that might be in temporary use by BSA does not construe public funding nor representation in government. privately supported groups can discriminate all they want, government supported/created groups can not.

is the national black caucuses not discrimination? how bout the latino one? or the asian one? what about LBGT group? they dont allow straights so they must be discriminatory too right? i can go on and on of the government represented groups that openly discriminate with just the use of their title. should any lobbyist belonging to a private group that openly discriminates be allowed to lobby the government? the 14th amendment makes it clear about equal protections of law but i guess it matters not.

tax-exempt status is just another way for government to play the game of control, no one deserves tax-exempt status, nor should anyone be burdened by government to pay ever increasing taxes. take all tax exemptions away, all earned income tax, any tax derived from earnings and just use a consumption tax. using the tax code to either reward or punish any citizen is illegal.

these stories are in reality, "agenda stories" either meant to further or distract the sheep from real issues, just like "gun control", its all about control and power by the few over the many -history proves this.

http://www.constitution.org/cons/constitu.htm

Does anyone know if the BSA has decided on Gay or lesbian membership? Bill Maher said the BSA was waiting on the results of a study regarding whether poison ivy could be transmitted orally.

If you can't beat em.......LEGISLATE em.

Yep, the Progressive media had to include religious comments.

Typical Progressive action. Appears these folks have nothing better to do.

Maybe legislation should be submitted to ban Unions, or the ACLU, or the Black Panthers, or Progressive media.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I. M. Moroni.....Nah....Mr. Maher was talking about Progressives.

This is BS law, out of political grandstanding, and no better than other outrageous laws such as disguised abortion restriction laws.

In short I say no!!! I see once again a politician not caring but only wants to carry out their agenda and in this case how do we pay for our uncontrolled spending.

Not sure if I even agree here; but if you want to cut-off state funding maybe? I guess my issue is there is a boy scout and a girl scout for a reason so nobody is entitled to be a part of everything. I can't afford to join my local country club and they are not willing to lower the cost so I can join. Should they be punished??? I know that's a rather simple example but if you're looking at this with an open mind you get it.

will not be ordering my xmas wreath from the boy scouts this year. i try to keep it about the kids but when parents interject their bigotry, let them bear the costs of their self preservation.

Emery Evans

" . . . Try passing a law that takes tax exempt status away from GAYS, the human rights orgs would raise the roof claiming discrimination. . ."

Gays are exempt from taxes?

Aren't these liberals cute, buzzing around everyone's ear with their nasty little agenda like a bunch of filthy gnats in need of some serious hygiene?

If they actually held a full-time job and contributed to society like the rest of us they wouldn't have time to spread their ignorance, would they?

There is no freedom in America if we allow government to control all organizations, this war does not belong in a youth organization, its not right for the government to force their will on others, what would the gay community be saying if things were the other way around and they were the target of oppression, what Hippocrates the gay community has become they truly have become a plague on the nation. this is bad politics and support for a private sector and a minority one at that, when 98% of the population has to bend over for 2% something is foul, and its just plain wrong for them to bring their battle to the nations youth, I become more detested with them every day they use the youth for their agenda, the shame is theirs but they have shown that they have no shame. the article of the woman that is being charged for exiotic dancers at her 16 year olds birthday is no different then a gay fix on the children in the BSofA, its ok for the gay community to openly wage war on youth over what they believe, yet other situations are considered endangerment?

If we have a separation of church and state, then don't we also have a separation of state and church, tell the government to stay out of it and stop taking sides against a youth organization that is fighting to not be taken over to support the gay agenda even some of the gay post support the right of freedom within a private organization, if you don't like it don't join, its obvious this is not about membership its about their field of influence aimed at our nations youth, they want to brainwash them to see the light from their perspective. what is needed is seperation of gay and state.

carryingconcealed,

Aren't these liberals conservatives cute, buzzing around everyone's ear with their nasty little agenda like a bunch of filthy gnats in need of some serious hygiene?

i fixed it for you :)

If they actually held a full-time job and contributed to society like the rest of us they wouldn't have time to spread their ignorance, would they?

well you could consider me liberal, i do agree with equal rights for all Americans and no discrimination. i do not agree with this tax exempt status being taken away tho because its only targeting BSA due to their policies. if you'd like further explanation - i will gladly provide one.

but in concerns to your comment, i have a full-time job, and a part time job, so i most definitely contribute to society and so do all of my "liberal" friends.. so you know where you can shove your hate-filled theory right ? :)

have a great day :)

Yet another attempt by a liberal politician to attact gay votes by assisting in their aggressive attempt to shove their agenda down our thoats. Well, you can pass all of the freakish laws you want, and hurl all the ugly insults you want to at my intelligence, but you'll never force me to accept behavior that is obviously biologically and anatomically unnatural.

Yet another attempt by a liberal politician to attact gay votes by assisting in their aggressive attempt to shove their agenda down our thoats

Liberals don't have to court the gay vote. Republicans have done that for them.

Phoenyx13 - I have a great day every time I can post two sentences and get a liberal worked up enough to respond with a post three times as long.

Of course, most of you liberals have nothing but time, right? I mean, those checks from Uncle Hussein only come once a month, don't they? That leaves you with a lot of free time to . . . umm . . . well . . . to do nothing, I guess.

carryingconcealed

Phoenyx13 - I have a great day every time I can post two sentences and get a liberal worked up enough to respond with a post three times as long.

ROFL ! - the best part is that you are under the deluded belief that you somehow affect my mood or my day :)

Of course, most of you liberals have nothing but time, right?

sure, while i'm working, i can multi-task :)

I mean, those checks from Uncle Hussein only come once a month, don't they? That leaves you with a lot of free time to . . . umm . . . well . . . to do nothing, I guess.

what checks ? i'd love to cash in on that ! i'm at my job, so none of those magical "Uncle Hussein" checks for me.. but if you need a ride to go cash yours, call me :)

i only have the time allotted while i'm at one of my 2 jobs.. outside of that, i have a life. i'm sorry we can't all be like you and sit at home while commenting here and wishing someone liked you enough to want to spend time with you :)

I loved being a boy scout in my younger years..but these days I would never let my grandsons be one...its crazy now!

I'll take them camping and on trips.Most of the other projects they do in school these days after class is over.

Just another example of the Gov. using the tax code to force its will on people. That is why I will always support the fair tax. The smartest thing for BSA to do is say screw all the kids and close up shop. If everyone thinks they are so evil why bother...I'm sure the kids would be better off running the streets in gangs anyway from what most of you seem to think.

Since when is sex and the Boy Scouts become an issue? I though sex was supposed to be OUT of young men and women's groups? So now the Government issues an order that sex has to be IN the Boy Scouts??

GO FIGURE

With that said, the posters who said this is a poor idea based on the slippery slope principle are dead on. They're also dead on that none of these should be directly funded by the taxpayer. Frankly, no organization that caters to a specific group deserves to receive tax money. The First Amendment gives them the right to say what they want. It doesn't require me to pay for it.

JimP ... I agree with you! But I would add one thing a little further ... I don't think they should be INDIRECTLY funded by the tax payer either ... i.e. free use of government facilities.

there are many tax exempt organizations that limit membership, VFW, only vets that have served in foreign conflict, American legion only vets that are honorable discharged, daughters of the Confederacy, only descendants of solders that fought for the south in the civil war, SAR only descendants that fought in the war of Independence, Knights of Columbus only Catholic, Masons only those that believe in one God, the list is very long, we are all not equal in all respects.

@anti-trust proponent

Actually ALL tax-exempt status should be ended at all government levels. The entire 501 category has gotten totally out of hand over the years. The original intent was for the separation of church and state, but now anyone can find a loop-hole to declare themselves or their organization as "tax-exempt." One of those loop-holes is to go online, get yourself a "divinity" degree, and then declare yourself as being tax-exempt through that degree

BTW, have any of you considered the fact that tax-exemption is really the government using YOUR tax dollars to support these groups? That is why I'm in favor of eliminating ALL tax-exemptions.

I agree entirely. Tax them all. I don't believe that the government should be targeting specific groups for this. But we have entirely too many organizations trying to push their own agenda in our society regardless, and allowing them to go tax-exempt means that they're doing it at the expense of everyone, including anyone that doesn't benefit from their agenda as well. Let them pay taxes like everyone else.

Square Dude. I agree do not discriminate. Tax 'em all, hell we could pay off the debt and deficit on the Catholic Church alone. Besides they are very discriminating in most churches.

Tinbashr

The LGBT community should just mind their own buisness...And us Straights will do the same...Don't bother us Straights, and we won't bother you...Simple enough...

Ah, yes - a return to "separate but equal".

WE KNOW HOW THAT ONE TURNED OUT LAST TIME

gee carry - who is "uncle hussein"? I don't HAVE an uncle hussein. I DO get my SS, though - I PAID for it so why shouldn't I?

By the way - I WOULD particularly tax CHURCHES

Ah, silly and stupid in one item. I'm surprised Sarah didn't note that this would ONLY apply to 'youth' organizations, under 18 or 21 years of age. Which I'm sure is to keep the other non-profits from rushing in to defend a fellow non-profit with the wolf at the door.

So, what is a targeted organization to do...eh...yes, right you thought of it too.

Let it be known to ALL, that the BSA, now accepts membership from those males of ninety years and older who wish to complete their work towards an Eagle badge.

BSA is now a youth AND elder scouting non-profit, NOT subject to this 'narrowly written law'. No name change either, sweet. Oh, like you never heard of 'old boys club'.

Of course the brave lawmakers could always tempt AARP by including 'seniors' in the law. ROTFLMAO.

Gotta luv stupid lawmakers.

MyOwn,

Damn, I'm slipping. :) Isn't nice to agree with me for once, though. Kind of refreshing.

LiberalsRCommies - Steve McQueen was a gay communist.

Sarah,

no no no ... YOU are agreeing with ME. Good Lord, give a girl a blazing fast IP and she thinks its IQ. lol

I also know that in picture, the real you is in the corner. The 'face' is your 'Charley McCarthy' toots.

Myown,

Next thing you know, you'll be drinking boxed wine, driving a hybrid and only eating organic vegetables, like a good little liberal. Muahahahahaha!

And, by the way, I also have blazing fast typing skills. :)

Sarah,

At least you'll always have a job typing for the real (men) lawyers. Come on, you had to expect that one from me.

Myown,

Oh I expected nothing less. Lol.

Sarah,

On a more serious point (ahhh) I couldn't download SB323. How did they define a 'youth' org ?

Myown,

I believe "youth" qualifies as pre-k to 12th grade and some undergrad programs. It breaks down "organization" more unambiguously than it does "youth" in my opinion. Here's some of the text just in case I got that wrong...

  (b) For purposes of this section, "organization" includes any of
the following:
   (1) Any nonprofit organization which meets all of the following
conditions:
   (A) The organization qualifies for tax-exempt status under Section
501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code.
   (B) The organization's primary purpose is to provide a supervised
program of competitive sports for youth, or to promote good
citizenship in youth.
   (C) The organization does not discriminate on the basis of 
gender identity,  race, sex,  sexual orientation, 
nationality,  or  religion  , or religious
affiliation  .
   (2) (A) Any youth group sponsored by or affiliated with a
qualified educational institution, including, but not limited to, any
student activity club, athletic group, or musical group.
   (B) For purposes of this section, "qualified educational
institution" means any of the following:
   (i) Any public elementary, secondary, or vocational-technical
school providing education for kindergarten, grades 1 to 12,
inclusive, and college undergraduate programs, or any part thereof,
operated by state or local government.
   (ii) Any nonprofit private educational institution providing
education for kindergarten, grades 1 to 12, inclusive, and college
undergraduate programs, or any part thereof, that meets the
requirements of the State Department of Education for a school.
"Private educational institution" means any entity providing
education which satisfies the requirements of state and local laws
pertaining to private educational institutions in effect on January
1, 1990, and which does not discriminate on the basis of  gender
identity,  race, sex,  sexual orientation, 
nationality,  or  religion  , or religious 
 affiliation  .
   (3)  (A)    Little League, Bobby Sox, Boy
Scouts, Cub Scouts, Girl Scouts, Campfire, Inc., Young Men's
Christian Association, Young Women's Christian Association, Future
Farmers of America, Future Homemakers of America, 4-H Clubs,
Distributive Education Clubs of America, Future Business Leaders of
America, Vocational Industrial Clubs of America, Collegiate Young
Farmers, Boys' Clubs, Girls' Clubs, Special Olympics, Inc., American
Youth Soccer Organization, California Youth Soccer Association,
North, California Youth Soccer Association, South, and Pop Warner
football. http://legiscan.com/CA/text/SB323

Sarah,

Thank You, luv your bandwidth access.

The Boy Scouts of America is nothing more than another special interest group when they're allowed to discriminate while being funded by the federal government through tax exempt status.

End all tax exempt status for any group that isn't open to all that wish to become members. Period! Since everyone's taxes support them everyone must benefit from those organizations. The B.S.A. is clearly a discriminatory organization!

its plain discrimination by GAYS. GAYS HATE STRAIGHT PEOPLE! , Try passing a law that takes tax exempt status away from GAYS, the human rights orgs would raise the roof claiming discrimination. Well it goes both ways, i am sick of the blatant discrimination against Straight people by the gay community.

The CA Franchise Board is widely called the Gestapo for a reason.

John, if you are comparing the Boy Scouts to Hitler's Nazi SA (known as the "brown shirts"), you are out of your freaking mind. Pick up a history book for Pete's sake.

While it's true that the Hitler Youth were modeled on Baden-Powell's scouting groups, it's also true that the BSA has historically hated the exact same people the Hitler Youth hated......gays and blacks.

Riiiiiiiiight. When I think of Kristallnacht, I immediately visualize the Boy Scouts.

In fact, the largest Jewish scouting group has advised all of its members to quit the BSA because of their homophobic policies and their endorsement of Christofascism. Sounds like they understand where the BSA is really coming from.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/10/us/jewish-group-recommends-cutting-ties-to-boy-scouts.html

Has anybody noticed......since Obama has become president the hate has been magnified a tremendous amount. The shootings have increased. The class warfare has increased. The democrats and republicans....the liberals and conservatives.....atheists against the believers. The old adage, live and let live is gone. It is my way or the highway. Obama has divided this country like never before. So much for his hope and change....because hope is gone and the change has been horrible.

eg.ltnm - Obama has divided this country like never before. So much for his hope and change....because hope is gone and the change has been horrible.

Yeah.....a shame those uppity minorities don't know their place better, regardless of whether they're gay, black or atheist.

Yeah same old tired line what ever democrat is in office is destroying America

@ skrekk

"In fact, the largest Jewish scouting group has advised all of its members to quit the BSA because of their homophobic policies and their endorsement of Christofascism. Sounds like they understand where the BSA is really coming from."

Did I miss that in the article? It says specifically: "Reform Jewish leaders are recommending that parents withdraw their children from membership in the Boy Scouts of America and that synagogues end their sponsorship of Scout troops."

The reformed movement represents roughly 40% of Jewish congregations. The article also does not mention that reformed congregations represent the only or largest sponsorship of BSA troops from Jewish temples.

Orthodox Judaism holds the same view as Islam and mainline Christianity regarding homosexuality. Just wanted to clear that up in case you were implying that "Jews" are taking the high ground. After all all 3 are faiths of the Abrahamic tradition.

I think this sums up the article nicely: ''The last thing we want to do is to throw the Scouts out,'' said Rabbi Goldberg, a former Eagle Scout whose father was an Eagle Scout. ''It's really a no-win situation, and the people that lose out the most are the kids.''

Sadly its the kids who will suffer as the adults play games on both sides.

Hate is hate no matter what color or orientation or religious beliefs you have or don't have. Live and let live, goes for all human beings.....even if we don't agree sometimes........skrekk

Noah Body-2203737 - Orthodox Judaism holds the same view as Islam and mainline Christianity regarding homosexuality.

I think you've confused "mainline Christianity" like the ELCA and Episcopal church (both of which are very gay-friendly) with the American Taliban and its members like the Mormons and Southern Baptists.

Really it's no surprise that Muslim extremists, Orthodox Jews, Mormons, and Southern Baptists all share the same bigoted and hateful views.

eg-ltnm nailed it, but nice attempt at some good ol' liberal deflection, skrekk.

Really it's no surprise that the largets civilizations and societies to have ever existed and completely failed were also heavily liberal/socialist in their thinking.

Keep bringing on the progressive idiocracy. When the country goes bankrupt and the states dismantle, we will know who to blame. (LIBERALS!)

@ skrekk,

The ELCA and the Episcopal church are not the only denominations representing mainline Christianity or what I like to call "the old guard". The majority of which do not ordain gay ministers or support gay marriage. By mainline accounts we can be specific and say the UMC, Church of Christ, American Baptists, etc along with what you listed. Your definition of "mainline Christianity" is skewed by your bias to those you don't consider bigots. Since you're calling these groups the "American Taliban" I'd say the tolerance you're promoting is offset by your own ignorance and bigotry.

So only muslim extremists are anti-homosexual? Since Islam is practiced all over the world what constitutes an extremist? What about practicioners in Western countries?

- As of 1999 in Iran, more than 4000 lesbians and gays had been executed since the 1979 Islamic revolution.
- Two thirds of all reported incidents of anti-gay violence in Amsterdam are by Muslim youths.
- A 2009 Gallup survey could not find a single UK Muslim who approved of homosexuality
- Not a single mosque in America accepts homosexuals

Soure: wikiislam.net

American Taliban indeed. BTW, I support the inclusion of gays in the Scouts but I'm not going to insult other groups just because they might disagree with my perspective. Of course the power of the internet gives everyone the courage to do so.

gee carry - what ltnm showed was a typical RWNJ view of their "reality".

YOU can support that position - I just think it's a CROCK and it stinketh

Not mine , but a g good post >>>> its plain discrimination by GAYS. GAYS HATE STRAIGHT PEOPLE! , Try passing a law that takes tax exempt status away from GAYS, the human rights orgs would raise the roof claiming discrimination. Well it goes both ways, i am sick of the blatant discrimination against Straight people by the gay community.

Noah Body-2203737 - Not a single mosque in America accepts homosexuals

I can't speak to the other numbers which you apparently pulled out of your ass, but I know that one is bull @!$%# and really ignorant.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/progressive-muslims-launch-gay-friendly-women-led-mosques_n_1368460.html

No surprise at all that the BSA has aligned with Muslim extremists, Orthodox Jews and members of the American Taliban in their common hatred of gays.

Actually, I left the source in my post and it didn't come out of my ass (thankfully). All it takes is you actually going to the website and reading the statistics. Some of the stats are from Gallup and some from other sources. Which, you will likely repudiate as its obvious you prefer your news/stats with an obvious slant. What I call in question is your comprehension if you think that a HuffPost article referencing a small minority of "Reformed Islam" (an obvious oxymoron) is somehow indicative of the viewpoint of the majority of Muslims. Per the article you reference:

"Today, in at least seven majority-Muslim countries, gay sex is punishable by death."

Again, you have to look at sources other than the Huffington Post unless you only want to believe that Islam is making the great strides mentioned in the article when it comes to equal rights for women and gays. The term Muslim Extremist nowadays is synonymous in most cases with terrorist. Your attempt to correlate the "American Taliban" (the bad Christians) and "Muslim Extremist" makes it obvious who is pulling what out of their ass.

The dogma you so vehemently oppose by the "gay haters" is exactly what you espouse with your own hatred for those you disagree with. That is...hate. So as the saying goes, "haters gonna hate".

I appreciated our exchange. Thank you for indulging me.

Fork - The irony in your response to my post is that liberals have no actual concept of the term "reality."

You live in a fantasy world that simply doesn't exist and never will, no matter how fervently you squeeze your eyes closed, clench your little fists and click those ruby slippers together.

Signed,

America's GLBT

Payback's a bitch, ain't it?

So wait this organization is being GIVEN something from the government for free and they want to stop GIVING them this thing and you are bitching about it?

in the middle (of what, exactly?) -

That's pretty much been politics forever. The Right does it. The civil rights movement started out fairly peacefully. They got the dogs set on them, water cannons, arrests for sitting in the "wrong place." So they went peaceful, but strident. They boycotted bus systems until those systems caved or went bankrupt, then spat on the ashes. The police arrested so many of them that it became clear it was a total farce.

If you want people to ask politely for change and equality, then give it to them when they ask. Otherwise, prepare yourself for pushback. And remember, progressivism has been winning out, granting more people equality who deserve it than conservatism ever did. So as you keep pushing back, you keep losing your base to death, while the progressives keep adding to their base with youth.

Besides, these are the same damn tactics that the Right has used forever. You can dish it out, but you can't take it. I get it, you're a thin-skinned pansy.

@jan, you realize that most of the politicians in the south were democrats during that time don't you?

and that LBJ didn't sign the civil rights act the first few times around, he in fact opposed it?

Liberals are so full of themselves and have such a tremendous lack of historical knowledge that they don't even understand that the civil rights bills were passed because of Republican support. Democrats fought it all the way. Sad that the teachers still indoctrinate children and don't teach them. I presume Janstince is a product of that indoctrination and still hasn't learned how to read or think for herself.

"Has anybody noticed......since Obama has become president the hate has been magnified a tremendous amount. The shootings have increased. The class warfare has increased. The democrats and republicans....the liberals and conservatives.....atheists against the believers. The old adage, live and let live is gone. It is my way or the highway. Obama has divided this country like never before. So much for his hope and change....because hope is gone and the change has been horrible."

serious....American history used to be mandated in schools. Not anymore and it sure shows doesn't it.

@in the middle-2260511

Signed,

America's GLBT

Actually is LGBTQIA. Or even more.....here's a good article from the NY Times talking about the various distinctions.

An excerpt:

“Youth today do not define themselves on the spectrum of L.G.B.T.,” said Shane Windmeyer, a founder of Campus Pride, a national student advocacy group based in Charlotte, N.C.

Part of the solution has been to add more letters, and in recent years the post-post-post-gay-rights banner has gotten significantly longer, some might say unwieldy. The emerging rubric is “L.G.B.T.Q.I.A.,” which stands for different things, depending on whom you ask."

dammit people - the dixiecrats were absolutely opposed to civil rights (SEPARATE BUT "EQUAL"). Yes, MODERATE Republicans voted to support the civil rights act and THEN the dixiecrats left the DEMs and went over to the dark side (or what soon enough evolved into the dark side after the co-opting of the RETHUG leadership by the so-called "moral majority" of reichwingnutreligionazis)

LET'S GET OUR HISTORY STRAIGHT FOLKS...

This was a post that was deleted/ Looks good to me >>> its plain discrimination by GAYS. GAYS HATE STRAIGHT PEOPLE! , Try passing a law that takes tax exempt status away from GAYS, the human rights orgs would raise the roof claiming discrimination. Well it goes both ways, i am sick of the blatant discrimination against Straight people by the gay community.

that go for schools and hospitals too? what about the protest groups?

tax the hell out of occupy soggy bottom

Tax someone for believing in a God???? Interesting. Stupid, but interesting.

No, tax major and wealthy institutions that involve themselves in politics and other power based schemes irrespective if the mask they hide that behind is some organized philosophy about the existence of some unseen and unproven agency. In the final analysis, there is nothing particularly special about religious thought compared to any other kind of thinking.

Tax someone for believing in a God???? Interesting. Stupid, but interesting.

You really thought the poster was advocating a tax on religious belief? Stupid, but interesting.

culheath-(there is nothing particularly special about religious thought compared to any other kind of thinking)

Actually you are incorrect.First, some of the most beautiful and most inspiring words have come from scripture. The Lord's Prayer. 23 Palms.

The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever

Surely how many times has that prayer been said, in people's darkest hours? It is considered the most famous prayer spoken in the world, for thousands of years now. And that is just one example. There is so much more then just words.For religion, offers to those who partake from a wide variety of the many tenants, a progressively changing paradigm on the world helping one to find their place in it. Which affects not just how they view the world, but lifting one to a spiritual level not offered in any other kind of thinking.

This includes accountability to high moral standards. Well known and very influential throughout history. Despite those leaders who have hid behind its mask, while abusing trusted positions, leaders persecuting others unrighteous. It is not the majority of good decent people trying to live life a better way.Still struggling with weaknesses, not perfect to be sure.Please point to those living better or giving more then those living the law of love thy neighbor as thy self.

Linked to their behaviors and expectations. Religion helping to provide life's meaning, while using known pre-existing human experiences, visual symbols and thought patterns to achieve higher comprehension of the possibility of the supernatural, including a Deity, or Deities to give life a compass with which to gauge ones actions and life.

How sad some folks want to use the law and tax process to go after a private business like the Boy Scouts of America because they have taken a stand against gays on moral grounds. Just as some seek to demand the same against churches that people have sacrificed hard earned money-donated taxed money- to build, with taxed money they now continue to donate to support. If they so much as express a view that isn't agreed upon. And here we thought the government was the big brother. It's every neighbor for himself.Mens hearts turning to stone and rare is the one willing to defend another person's right to disagree. Tolerance is more then just allowing someone to express a different view.It is fighting for their right to do so.

Actually you are incorrect.First, some of the most beautiful and most inspiring words have come from scripture. The Lord's Prayer. 23 Palms.

And some other of the most beautiful and most inspiring arise from non-religious sources.

"Man prefers to believe what he prefers true." - Sir Francis Bacon

Bacon's statement is really the short history of the world. Evolving into scary environs, man set about inventing a swirling dust cloud of illusions to ensconce himself from the harshness of life. Our job, should we choose to accept it altruistic brethren, is to enable people to see that fuller, richer lives await them here and now should they opt to break free from their various dream worlds of illusion.

Or how about Willy the Shake: "Nothing is good or bad, but our thinking makes it so."

Truly one of the most important concepts ever penned. What the world believes at any given moment is simply the prevailing popular opinion. And as nothing that stands today is either inherently or intrinsically so, all manner of currently held notions have the ability to be changed.

World religions have all produced some variant of the Golden Rule and similar ethical poetry...but to suppose religion has corned the market on beautiful literature and ethical considerations is patently false. Nor is there any reason to suppose religion is any more deserving of respect or deference than any other elevated form of human reasoning.

tax the churches. They deserve to pay at least PROPERTY TAX for their facility. IF they have business interests, tax them too. Then the church can complain about politics

Windancer,

while I agree that your idealistic attitude is something worty to aspire to, it is just not realistic. We have been give a "mental Picture" if you will of Jesus by the Catholic Church as a sort of sacrificial lamb for the purpose of washing our sins away so that all of us lowly sinners can get to heaven.

I have a slightly different view. Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi that wanted to correct what he saw as hypocritical expectations from the common people since the church used them as a way to earn money and a lively hood for th church and the Government it represented and to pay Rome.

The bible gives enough evidence of this to argue the point and history will also support this assertion.

Jesus went around feeding the poor, healing the sick, performing miracles, offering salvation and attonment for sins, and all without a single sacrifice of any kind. The church could not allow this because the bottom line is the message that was given is that The offerings of money, food, and sheep were no longer required. Jesus had to go.

I feel that is the US where we are supposed to remove discrimination and support charity, we should only make a Church or club or group as tax exempt as they can show their charity outlay. I was a boy scout who was underprivilaged and as such could not afford all the perks that the kids with families could enjoy. For example, the Jamboree was the BIG event for the year, but there was no way I could afford to go. I had a paper route and worked part time at a small grocery store at 11 years old so I could be a member of the troop and go on local trips. Luckily, I lived in the Smokey mountains and there were great places to go to locally.

If the Boy Scouts want to be classified as a charity organization, they need to subsidize the under privilaged kids and show an accounting of the funds spent.

Should they discrimiante against Homosexual kids, there should not be that option for them.

All Churches should be taxed as well. I am so sick and tired of the "Monster" Churches making millions off of weak minded , blind faithful idiots who make these peopel rich. Have you seen the Church in Houston where brother Joel resides? It is near the Galeria and probably takes up 6 square city blocks. The one in Dallas is a hatefilled bunch of bigoted reprobates.

Lazarus

larry-5534379

You are not the only person to have experienced a lack of charity in life. For often life has been a very unkind teacher for many. How wonderful you had a chance to be in scouting at all.I wish my brothers had that chance. Instead of the terrible life they knew, including it causing one to die young from the conditions.Perhaps the more darker nightmarish world known, the more incredibly wondrous appreciation, when a new one full of light is bestowed.For I count myself the most fortunate person to be born into a world of light. Empathy comes for another, when we have personally survived what no one should ever know. And we become more willing to extend mercy, when we realize the power it holds when shown to ourselves.

As you pointed out, Jesus Christ came to set the example.While the scaffolding is the "church", it is the living the spiritual laws which form the true "flock". Christ knew all too well how the Adversary would blind the minds of those who might want to seek after Him. Which is why He took His message to the poor, the humble, the outcast where ever he went.Not the rich and those caught up in the "things" of this world.

A rich young man asked the Savior how to get eternal life. Jesus answered, to obey all the commandments. This man stated he had done so since he was a young child. Jesus then instructed him to go, sell all his possessions, give the money to the poor, then come follow him.

At this the young sad man turned away, and left. For he had great wealth. Jesus, seeing this replied,"Truly, How hard it is for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God.For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God." Wait, you mean if a rich,young handsome fella who is obeying all the commandments can't get into heaven, what hope is there for the rest of us? Answer, none.There is nothing we can do by ourselves. In fact Peter even questions who can be saved. Jesus answers, with man it (salvation) is impossible, but with God all things are possible. Because He is a God of impossibilities.

The lesson is simple.There will always be poor among us in the world. And there will always be those who, like the rich young man, give money to help.However, we must literally, follow what our Savior does with our heart, minds, might and strength. Let go of making possessions of this world our priority. People are more important then things.Tomorrow is never guaranteed to be ours.And like the Pharisee's and Scribes, walking about in their riches to be seen of the people, officials who should have been the caretakers of the people and word of God, don't worry.

This probationary time is given that each soul may choose between good and evil, which master they list to obey. The summer is past,as the wheat and tares are separately bundled. Christ Himself said,"My sheep hear my voice, I know them, and they follow me." I know the idea of God is so far beyond what most of us can comprehend.We are silly to try to limit what He is like and can do.But we can try to love unconditionally and forgive unconditionally.Baby steps folks, just start with baby steps. Let Him do the ultimate judging in the end.

Simply put, there are many genuine people in the world, kind, peacefully loving folks seeking a path of more tolerant acceptance of everyone else, unconditionally. Even as some folks are trying to claim anyone who rejects someone practicing a gay relationship, is hateful to gays and homophobic. Which is false, and only trying to start contention. Overwhelmingly most churches have shown when there is an issue, it is only practicing a gay lifestyle, that is an issue. The move has been to recognizing one can be born with a leaning that involves an internal struggle.

What about NPR? Not only is it not taxed but the tax payer gives them $$

When did NPR say they won't hire someone based on their color or creed or sexual orientation?

I am so tired of the TAX WELFARE argument.. Just because you do not tax certain organizations, products, companies...does not = welfare... we do not tax milk, eggs, churches...

What FEDERAL services are churches using.... the people that attend may be using federal services but the Organization isnt

@base, i'm betting if you a white male who attends church...they aren't going to hire you

...or, if you are an open minded black liberal, they will fire you.

You must be brain dead tracontech. How is allowing them to keep money they earn through fundraisers or is DONATED to them money from the government??? Unlike LaRazza, the NAACP and many other radical minority groups who do discriminate who do get federal money!

Crowbar7

Psssst....You're trying to be too logical and make sense.Something not tolerated.Certainly don't mention the donated post taxed funds given by members themselves.It will just be even more confusing.

IF you mean whether NPR will hire someone - depends on how you fit into their scheme of things - generally, the konservatifs don't fare too well. "White male" isn't a rejection criteria - a white male "reichwingnut" might not fit in too well.

You do realize that a significant amount of money that is given to religion is then used to house, feed and shelter the poor. Look at most of the charitable organizations for the homeless, food pantries, etc. Most are run by a religious organization. With less funding who is going to pick up the slack. While you should not give "just for the deduction" if you pay more in taxes you have less to give also it a persons way of picking where their money goes instead of the government telling them where their hard earned money should go.

A significant amount of money given to the church is also used to benefit those that work within the church. In the spring of 2012, the Archdiocese of Philadelphia put their 9 bedroom, beachfront property, that spanned a full city block, up for sale for $6.2 MM. This was a vacation home for Philly priests. It amazes me how they convince their senior citizen congregants to contribute a portion of their meager SS checks, only to purchase vacation homes with that money. The church has become nothing more than a big business and like big busness they should be taxed.

The mormon church is the exception, CD11.

The highest percentage of any dollar (donation or tithing) goes towards charitable deeds. The program known as "Bishop's Storehouse", which provides no or low cost food and supplies to needy families, is the most efficient and closest to self sustaining program of it's kind.

There are VERY FEW "people" who work for the church in the LDS/MORMON faith. The bishops, teachers, priests, etc etc etc... all volunteer their time.

Want to cut the fat. Go after the catholics.

@cd11...

There are several churches which own land worth MILLIONS... of course they have had that land since 1821 or longer and prices have risen.. it is not like they went out an BOUGHT it THREE years ago.

in the US? islam has no special status any more than others. 1970's the mormons were given a choice - admit people of color to their ranks without restriction or LOSE THEIR TAX EXEMPTION (federal). Funny thing the chief "profit" had a revelation and presto all men were declared equal (no more of their status of "some more equal than others")

That is an equitable solution for everyone. What about race, gender and all other affiliations that have standards for participation? Tax them too, right?

ITM, what part of Joe saying "BoA, Churchs everything...tax 'em all!", is confusing to you?

Seemed pretty clear to me that they meant every group that isn't taxed, should be taxed.

I agree but make sure you ad the NAACP, La Raza and other minority non profits.

Steve, I'm not sure what your point is since none of those civil rights groups gets any public subsidies or special recognition from Congress, unlike the BSA. Nor do they discriminate in regards to membership like the BSA currently does against gays and atheists, and did so for many decades against blacks until at least the mid 1970s.

try being white and joining the NAACP skrekk...

seriousordelirious - try being white and joining the NAACP skrekk...

You are seriously clueless. The NAACP has lot of white members, including white board members and white leaders of local NAACP councils. Most of the NAACP's founders were white, and it didn't even have a black president until 64 years after it was founded.

But regardless, the point was that the NAACP doesn't get the public funding or Congressional support that a bigoted group like the BSA does.

try being white and joining the NAACP skrekk...

I am white and I am a member.

What says you about that?

You do know they don't ask your skin color on the application, right? Of course you don't. You have no clue about anything this organization does. You saw the word Colored and pulled out your keyboard of assumption and began clacking away, correct?

Don't forget the National Endowment for the Arts.....PBS etc.

I am white and I am a member.

So am I. It actually says a lot that he thought Whites were unwelcome. Civil rights are civil rights and the protection of them is colorless.

Don't forget the National Endowment for the Arts.....PBS etc.

What do grants to PBS or the National Endowment for the arts have to do with anything being discussed? Neither are exclusionary groups or practice bigotry. I don't get your point.

Yeah, it really sucks when the government tries to legislate conscience or similar subjective ideals. Tell me, how do you feel about gay marriage?

Sarah,

I dont think the government (IRS) should be involved in marriage at all, gay or straight. They should get out of all of our bed rooms. Me personally though, I find little scientific evidence to support that gays are doing what we were designed to do......so I think gay marriage is a bit goofy in concept.

To less directly address your question though, I offer another question.....are you saying that the government is justified in picking on someone because they "deserve" it? So, two wrongs make it right? That's not progress. That kind of thinking is what prevents progress.

In your mind, gays can be gay, and we should all accept that. Yet, when boy scouts are boy scouts, they are not offered the same acceptance. It appears as though you are a bigot now, doesn't it?

Yet, when boy scouts are boy scouts, they are not offered the same acceptance. It appears as though you are a bigot now, doesn't it?

You must have missed my first post, #1.2 where I said this...

They shouldn't lose their exemption and they shouldn't be forced to accept something, as they're a private membership organization.

Ooops.

Reading this stuff is hilarious...hope all of you don't take yourselves too seriously.

I have read sarah's diatribe in the past. She takes herself very seriously. She is incapable of spending time outside of a gay agenda baiting article.

Ooooh, a fan. And one that likes me so much he/she follows me around extensively, I see. I mean, after all, how else would you know what articles I do/don't post on?

Tell me, Doc, what are your thoughts on the topic at hand, or are you just here for me??? In which case, send me your email address and I'll send you an autographed head shot.

Sarah

In which case, send me your email address and I'll send you an autographed head shot.

WHAT !??!?!!? i've been stalking you for MONTHS ! i didn't get no public nod or autographed head shot ! hmpf !

i don't know if i will stalk you anymore Sarah, you broke my little heart ;)

Phoenyx,

I'm so sorry. I keep the head shots only for the haters, as a thank you to them for allowing me to know I'm speaking the truth. Otherwise they wouldn't be so pissed, right?

There is alot of appeal to the Dr. part of the title, sorry phoenyx.

Speaking the truth. HA. Another self appointed fact from a liberal. "It is so because I said so" How original....

I would love an autographed picture of you giving head. It would disprove my theory that you're a reverse bigot against straight people. IT would be hard NOT TO recognize that you only post on "gay" articles. I'm not here for you, you're just my favorite over-opinionated sheep under educated sheep. You're self appointed moral superiority is also the most self contradicting of any other poster I have encountered. Priceless entertainment.

My thoughts on the topic at hand: There is most certainly a discriminatory attitude emanating from the LGBTUIEAIZUP crowd. I think more people are resisting change simply because they are sick and tired of the methods the gay's use to promote (or force feed) their agenda. They demand to be considered special yet demand to be treated the same as every body else. Even worse is that you could be the most tolerant person on the planet but if you were to utter a single word about disagreeing with the homosexual lifestyle, they would maliciously attack anything you had in this life! It is despicable!

Let the gays be gay and tell them to leave non-gays the hell alone! Tell all the idiots crying "discrimination and bigotry" to walk off a cliff. Being rude and judgemental for any reason does not make you any better than the people being called bigots! Cry your little ass off about them receiving "your hard earned tax dollars" and being "intolerant". It only proves you're just as intolerant if not worse. They are american citizens, humans, people.... just like the homo's you so avidly support and they are entitled to every bit of everything as any other private organization. If you really cared about the issue you would be attacking a few dozen other organizations too.

I would love an autographed picture of you giving head.

Now that's just creepy, but it's really none of my business what you choose to fantasize about.

It would disprove my theory that you're a reverse bigot against straight people

I'm bigoted against bigots. We've been over this and I'm comfortable with that.

IT would be hard NOT TO recognize that you only post on "gay" articles

Well I do post a lot about the topic of gay rights, however a quick tip, if you're going to use an assumption as the basis for an argument, you might want to make that assumption harder to disprove. As your assumption stands now, all people have to do is click on my name and look at my comment history.

I'm not here for you, you're just my favorite opinionated sheep.

Why thank you!

You're self appointed moral superiority is also the most self contradicting of any other poster I have encountered.

How have I contradicted myself? Please, elaborate so that I may see the errors of my ways. But you did get one thing right, I am morally superior to you. See we can agree! Good thing morality is subjective, otherwise you'd be screwed.

Let the gays be gay and tell them to leave non-gays the hell alone!

Sure, just give them equal protection under the law and they'll never complain about whether or not YOU accept them. Trust me, they couldn't care less.

Cry your little ass off about them recieving "your hard earned tax dollars" and being intolerant, if you really cared about the issue you would be attacking a few dozen other organizations too.

You'd have a point if I was siding AGAINST the BSA. Good thing I'm in BSA'S corner on this one, huh?

But seriously, thank you for that extremely pleasant post. YOU are the best argument for gay rights I have ever seen.

Sarah

I'm so sorry. I keep the head shots only for the haters, as a thank you to them for allowing me to know I'm speaking the truth. Otherwise they wouldn't be so pissed, right?

yea, good point :) ... maybe one day i will get a coffee mug with your picture on it ! oh i can dream :)

DrAlchemy,

There is alot of appeal to the Dr. part of the title, sorry phoenyx.

oh there definitely is !

But you did get one thing right, I am morally superior to you. See we can agree! Good thing morality is subjective, otherwise you'd be screwed.

More of that self appointed liberal horse sh!t. Perhaps you should stop being such a bitchy liberal cun*. OMG you are SOOOOO witty and clever. You're morally superior to me yet morals are subjective. Not only is your joke stupid but you admitted it for me!

Sure, just give them equal protection under the law and they'll never complain about whether or not YOU accept them. Trust me, they couldn't care less.

I'm SOOO sure they couldn't care less. That's why a handful of phucking @!$%# gay people go around making national headlines by crying about a group not accepting them. Nice try. If they didn't care, NON OF THESE ARTICLES would be news. If they didn't care, the rest of the gay community and their nasty liberal followers would tell them to STFU because it doesn't matter. The stories would read "fat army lesbo gets rejected from club for straight army wives and nobody cares" or "flamboyant gay creeper makes other scouts feel uncomfortable and is kicked out" and again, nobody would care.

equal protection under the law? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!? IS that PC liberal talk for "power to change the laws in their favor"? That's all I'm seeing in recent headlines.

Doc,

Thanks, you continue to prove my point. I'm sure you're convincing so many people you're correct. I mean who could read that post and NOT say, "Wow, he's so articulate and made such a good argument for his position, how could I have ever thought differently"?

OMG you are SOOOOO witty and clever.

Ain't I though? Seriously, and I'm cute too.

I'm guessing by the liberal spattering of personal insults in that post, that you aren't willing to actually discuss equal protection in regards to homosexuals on a substantive level, are you?

I'm guessing by the liberal spattering of personal insults in that post, that you aren't willing to actually discuss equal protection in regards to homosexuals on a substantive level, are you?

I'm guessing you couldn't see an opposing point of view with out being a total liberal b!tch about it. Self appointed character traits, "moral superiority" (that's a good one, we know you don't have morals, just sound bites for public approval).

There is no equal protection needed in regards to homosexuals besides them avoiding income taxes for being "married". You clearly don't believe in equal rights or you would believe that the scouts have every right to deny membership if an individual does not meet member criteria and you wouldn't have to call them a name or label them for it.

Also you're not cute and just like morals, that is very subjective - and just like a liberal, it is yet another "because I said so" type of "fact".

How convenient of you to use your SUPER CLEVER AND WITTY comebacks to acknowledge nothing of substance yet you accuse me of not having a substantive discussion. Let the all too predictable "you didn't post anything of substance" diatribe follow. You only believe that because you're head is up your ass and you're not half as tolerant as you would lead others to believe.

I'm guessing you couldn't see an opposing point of view with out being a total liberal b!tch about it

You say "bitch" like it's a bad thing.

There is no equal protection needed in regards to homosexuals besides them avoiding income taxes for being "married".

Well...

First, there are certain "protected classes" laid out in the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act. Two of them are race and gender. In the Supreme Court case Loving v Virginia, SCOTUS ruled that,

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival....

Now this case was based on race, BUT to support gay marriage, all you have to do is change race to GENDER, another protected class. PLUS, the 14th Amendment has a little something called the "Privileges and Immunities" clause. Which means, you can't deny the citizens, their privileges, or immunities, based on those classes. In this case, that'd be gender.

So, since marriage is a legal (that means law) contract, that comes with PRIVILEGES, you can't deny citizens, without a damn good, already been shown to exist, reason, based on gender, among other things. So, if the state can't prove a reason, to deny privileges to people based on gender, they can't make that particular law.Now, put it together. If two gay people want to enter a contract, and the state tells them they can't, because of the gender of one of the parties, THAT'S A BIG NO NO.

Also, the logic that gay people are free to marry, just as you are, i.e they're free to marry one of the opposite sex, is the EXACT same defense that Virginia used in their defense, again just turn gender to race.

The court ruled, AGAINST that logic.

Second, you have an implied right to privacy, mostly through the 9th and 4th Amendments. In a the SCOTUS case Lawrence v Texas, the court said this...

The Texas statute furthers no legitimate state interest which can justify its intrusion into the personal and private life of the individual.

Third, AGAIN, marriage is a civil contract, that comes with over 1,000 benefits granted by the state. Most of these benefits deal with property, insurance, tax and probate law. Civil unions, do NOT grant equivalent benefits. In order to enter a legal contract, the parties have to have LEGAL CAPACITY FOR INFORMED CONSENT.

Furthermore, marriages are NOT religious, that's Holy Matrimony, which a church can NEVER be forced to perform against its dogma, due to protections in the 1st Amendment. This is why people can, and do, get married any day without ever stepping foot in a church.

Also, marriage has NOTHING to do with procreation. After all, we let people have kids OUTSIDE of marriage, and NOT have kids while married.

Fourth, there are very few limited reasons for the government to discriminate in law, against one of these protected classes, and in order to do so, the government has to pass the test of strict scrutiny, which is that compelling state interest mentioned in Lawrence v Texas.

So....

The real question, those making the case for continuing the gender based discrimination of DOMA is, what is that compelling state interest? And before we start talking about marrying appliances, nephews, sheep, or dead people, ask yourselves this...

Since the only difference between a gay marriage and a straight marriage, is the gender of a single party, what is inherent to that single party's gender which would lead to bestiality, incest, polygamy, pedophilia, or marrying inanimate objects? Remember, you're ONLY changing ONE person's GENDER, so logically, it must be something within that one person's gender, which would lead you to believe gay marriage would open the door to any of those things, so... WHAT IS IT? Why would gay marriage lead to the repeal of the laws we have on the books, banning all those things?

Or, in easier terms...

Why doesn't STRAIGHT marriage lead to any of that?

And technically, the burden of proof is on those limiting rights, (the anti-marriage equality folks), so you all should really be making the case, not us.

Good thing I have that saved to my desktop. It really does come in handy. And unless you're arguing that gays aren't HUMAN BEINGS, I don't know, buddy...

You clearly don't believe in equal rights or you would believe that the scouts have every right to deny membership if an individual does not meet member criteria and you wouldn't have to call them a name or label them for it.

Oh for the love of Pete, you didn't even read my posts did you??? And why I am shocked by that, who knows? Anyway, if you had, in post 1.2, MY VERY FIRST ONE, you would have read this...

They shouldn't lose their exemption and they shouldn't be forced to accept something, as they're a private membership organization.

There, I even used bold, if that helps any.

Also you're not cute and just like morals, that is very subjective.

Well now you've hurt my feelings. The guy who called me a @!$%# doesn't think I'm cute. Who'd a thunk that? Now please, continue your diatribe, but really, I've worked with emotional disturbed adolescents before, so there aren't many insults I haven't heard. Could you please be a bit more creative, otherwise I might get bored.

But you did another thing right. There was absolutely NO substance in your post. And if you think I haven't caught on that you're a rereg of either NavyVet or N.Serling, you'd be wrong.

Hey cool. Sarah can copy and paste from her scripted talking points. GOOD JOB!!!! Your statement was also followed by the qualifier of your intolerance.

However, they also shouldn't be allowed to use one iota of anything in the public realm.

Public realm. Yes how dare they benefit 99.9% of their members lives if they use one IOTA of anything in the public realm. How dare they exclude an unqualified member into their club. I'm sure there's never been a single instance of any other organization taking advantage of anything free for the benefit of their members. How dare they use a park for a day! The nerve....

Who said anything about beastiality? Next....

Yes you can change the definition of marriage to suit your little agenda. Congratulations. you're the first lefty fruitcake lover to change the meaning of a word. Somebody please get this hag a Nobel Peace Prize for originality or language or something.

Also, I'm not a reregistration of anything or anybody. Stop fooling yourself.

Substance. You chose to ignore

My thoughts on the topic at hand: There is most certainly a discriminatory attitude emanating from the LGBTUIEAIZUP crowd. I think more people are resisting change simply because they are sick and tired of the methods the gay's use to promote (or force feed) their agenda. They demand to be considered special yet demand to be treated the same as every body else. Even worse is that you could be the most tolerant person on the planet but if you were to utter a single word about disagreeing with the homosexual lifestyle, they would maliciously attack anything you had in this life! It is despicable!

Because you know it's true. And you ignored this:

I'm SOOO sure they couldn't care less. That's why a handful of phucking @!$%# gay people go around making national headlines by crying about a group not accepting them. Nice try. If they didn't care, NON OF THESE ARTICLES would be news. If they didn't care, the rest of the gay community and their nasty liberal followers would tell them to STFU because it doesn't matter. The stories would read "fat army lesbo gets rejected from club for straight army wives and nobody cares" or "flamboyant gay creeper makes other scouts feel uncomfortable and is kicked out" and again, nobody would care.

Because you also know this is true

Sarah - Once again, we have someone talking about the "gay agenda" and I still have yet to understand what the "gay agenda" is in their little, bigoted pea brains. Are they afraid they are going to be forced to listen to show tunes; be well groomed and good cooks and gardeners; be female gym teachers? What is the fear? What is the problem? How does equal rights for the LBGT community affect them in any way? PLEASE, SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE RIGHT WING CONSIDERS TO BE THE "GAY AGENDA"?

Your statement was also followed by the qualifier of your intolerance.

Sure. Why should the tax money and tax funded property, be used for an organization that doesn't allow gay people who PAY TAXES, to belong?

How dare they exclude an unqualified member into their club.

No they can totally not allow unqualified people into the BSA, and that would still be fair and I would have no problem with them using public land or funds. Too bad that's not what we're talking about here, and this discrimination has nothing to do with anyone's merits, but instead who they choose to sleep with.

Yes you can change the definition of marriage to suit your little agenda. Congratulations. you're the first lefty fruitcake lover to change the meaning of a word. Somebody please get this hag a Nobel Peace Prize for originality or language or something.

How did I change the definition of marriage? It's always been a legal contract, hence Atheists can enter into it. You're just confusing it with Holy Matrimony. But I will take the Peace Prize, that'd be great. Thanks!

Come on, buddy, keep 'em coming. You have no idea how much you're helping the "gay agenda". And I'm sorry, but anything with more then three f and/or c bombs per sentence does NOT qualify as substance, and this is coming from a girl who can definitely drop an f bomb or two. You know, I'm looking for statutes, precedents, arguments based on objectivity, scientific evidence that's been peer reviewed, those kind of things.

Kim,

Yeah, I still haven't received my copy yet, either. I don't know what to tell you?

Good job kim, YOU GAVE YOURSELF A VOTE UP!!!

The gay agenda has nothing to do with any of those things you mentioned. It has to do with the devious, pathetic and highly discriminatory tactics they use to force acceptance of something that some people consider evil and unnatural.

That is the gay agenda. The forcing of acceptance in the name of "tolerance". The rotten methods used to hurt people for doing nothing but disagreeing with the sexual preferences/lifestyles of gay people. Even people who have never once discriminated against gays are immediately attacked for saying they disagree with the lifestyle. That is the gay agenda. Pure and simple discrimination and attaining "civil rights" using the most uncivilized and bigoted methods possible.

Sarah,

Who somebody chooses to sleep with MATTERS when young children are present. It matters when it confuses kids. It matters when young men are being looked at as a sexual object by other men. No there is nothing wrong with that. Hey how about I come watch you in the shower and locker room. Afterall, it's just being tolerant. Sexual preference IS MERIT in this case. If gay's didn't have to run around and designate themselves as special and different, NOBODY WOULD EVER KNOW! The problem is, they can't!

Actually, I voted Kim up. Just saying.

Who somebody chooses to sleep with MATTERS when young children are present.

Only if they're pedophiles, in which case, you should really be arguing about STRAIGHT MEN being scout leaders...

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/10-myths

http://www.livescience.com/13409-myths-gay-people-debunked-sexual-orientation.html

http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/pedophilia_and_molestation.htm

It matters when it confuses kids. It matters when young men are being looked at as a sexual object by other men.

See, this is when that science thing I mentioned would help you a lot, by showing what you say is true. Please, through credible science, show us that kids who are among homosexual adults become confused.

Hey how about I come watch you in the shower and locker room.

There you go being creepy again. By the way, you do realize gays are and always HAVE been in the scouts, and locker rooms, and bathrooms...

Afterall, it's just being tolerant.

You got ANOTHER thing right! Look at you, you're on fire tonight.

Go phuck yourself sarah. Can't wait till you find your lesbo lover in bed with another man. Priceless. Or encounter your son taking it in the rear and you grow old and withered without any grand kids. Priceless.

Yeah, definitely N.Serling. I remember the @!$%# being spelled "phuck". But you have a blessed night also. Your morality and intelligence have truly shown through, and I'm sure you've shed a light on this issue for any who may have been undecided.

Sarah - Thanks for the vote. Obviously - the good DR is deeply damaged.

Dr - you are the uncivilized and bigoted one. I personally don't care if the Boy Scouts accept gays. I can't imagine anyone joining an organization that has the history of intolerance that this one does. You need to calm down. Go lay down and take a couple of deep breaths and stop being so frigging paranoid. It is very unattractive.

Kim,

No problem. I'm thinking Zanax might help, but who knows. He's the doc. And, beyond a shadow of a doubt, he's also a rereg of N.Serling.

Come on, Doc, give me another one...

tell yah doc - others have been banned previously for far lesser personal attacks than what you have just done.

as a simple question doc - what difference does it make to YOU what the tax status of 2 people are? Does a civil contract have bounds as to gender? I mean - I can think of only 2 possible contractual situations where gender is important and the deciding factor - WET NURSE and SPERM DONOR. Those functions have specific gender related requirements. TELL ME OF OTHERS...I doubt that you can...

Hey Doc,

After the kind of vitriol you have just imparted, how can you possibly believe that you or anybody like you might possibly be superior as a male role model to youth, than somebody else who is able to show tolerance, kindness, critical thinking and leadership skills, but otherwise just might have a different sexual preference than you in his own personal life?

John and Fork,

I think Doc took his ball and went home. I did leave him at least one, you know. :)

No, Sarah, on this point I have to disagree with you: I think you left him totally castrated. Great job!

When did freedom of assembly become a mandate of assembly?

coco: "LGBT organizations and the like are the biggest bullies on the planet". Please take one moment and think about how gays are treated (world wide-not just in America) They are demonized, preached against, discriminated against, hated, feared, murdered, called abominations and sinners and young gay people are bullied so badly at school that they actually commit suicide. I find it hard to believe that anyone would deliberately choose to be a target of this kind of extreme predjudice and hatred and fear. There are young people who want to be a 'part of' the boy scouts and they happen to be gay. I want to be there when someone explains to a young gay boy that he can NOT go on camp outs, and earn badges and learn how to make a camp fire because he's different. Does anyone care about these young people's feelings? And I know that the Boy Scouts promote kindness, and friendliness, and helpfulness etc etc. There is NOTHING kind or friendly or helpful about exclusion-no matter what the cause.............

You are wrong, Peace, I find it quite kind to exclude convicted murders, rapists, etc from school parks......to the kids, that is. Screw the bad guys feelings....just one example of when it's okay to be exclusive.

Now, per their religious standards, GLBT is wrong. Why should they be forced to accept it? You are suggesting that religions can now only be a religion and get those perks if they meet the strict standards of Washington D.C., and your sensitive feelings? You may not like their ways, but it does not make them wrong.

MY SENSITIVE FEELINGS???? I agree with Groucho Marx-I'd never join a club that would have me as a member (LOL) Seriously though-does anyone think about the young boys that want to join and learn scouting? And exactly how do you 'exclude' rapists and convicted murderers from school parks? Unless they are carrying a sign identifying themself.......and why would you compare an innocent child to a rapist? Personally I do not care if people believe God is a light bulb-other people's religion is none of my business -I just dislike unkindness ..............And you may not like my ways but that does not make me wrong (works both ways)

Unless they are carrying a sign identifying themself.......

How do gay people NOT carry a sign around that notifies everybody of their lifestyle?

I just dislike unkindness

So it's perfectly ok to be unkind to an organization and all of it's members because they view something differently from you? Did you think of all those people who don't want to be subjected to gayism? What about the religious people who are minding their own business and don't want a prancing, make up wearing little boy talking about inappropriate butt sex at their scout meetings? Is that being kind or considerate to the others around you? How about being watched in the shower or tent? I'm sure you wouldn't mind if I just decided to hang out in the women's locker room, right?

Dr - Were you a good little Boy Scout? My cousin grew up in a family where the most important thing in my Uncle's life for his boys was that they grow up to be Eagle Scouts and what he considered to be MEN. My cousin went to Viet Nam and came home, got married and had a child. During his marriage, he came out and from that point on, my Uncle never spoke to him again. My cousin drowned in California with his partner saving the life of a woman who was drowning. I hope my Uncle felt really bad about his decision to cut his son out of his life. My Uncle died of bone cancer and I can assure, he was a piece of crap - to the bone.

Cool story kim. You're still a stupid liberal and so is your fruitcake loving friend sarah.

I was in scouts and was raised christian. I stopped both because I hated it. I used to feel like most of you haters out there, they were opressive, i wanted to be an individual... Until I realized there was still good in the ALMOST ALL OF THE people that drove me away from those things and unlike you and your counterparts, they weren't trying to destroy anybody elses lives for not agreeing with them. They let me leave, and continued to love and support me. Something I have not once encountered from anybody on this vine who is liberal, democrat, or gay supporter.

Nothing but talk sh!t about people they don't know using generalizations and stereotypes. Hence my strong position of PHUCK YOU! They may be "intolerant' but they aren't as screwed up as you.

Dr - Are you married? Do you have children? Do you have any friends? You need a hug - call someone.

nah - a swift kick in the gluteous would be more effective

Just make sure you properly ad La Raza, NAACP and how about all those minority scholarships I see being advertised?

Show me where La Raza, the NAACP, and minority scholarships already receive taxpayer dollars today? Oh wait, whoops they don't. Try again

Show me any school, scholarship foundation, government grant that doesn't give preferential treatment to minorities. For the above listed, show me where they DIDN'T lower the standards for the NON-WHITE recipients.

Also, please indicate for me when and where the straight pride parade is to be held. Or where I can visit the museum of white history. OR when WHITE history month begins.

No there's no reverse discrimination at all.....

Why don't you organize the Straight Pride Parade in your little village, Good Doctor.

Dr. Alchemy,

oohhhh.. you are upset ? for decades upon decades white people have been in control, they enslaved minorities, women and anyone else they could get their hands on.. now the tables have been turning, equal rights are being fought for - discrimination is being fought against, and YOU are now crying discrimination ? seriously ? ROFL !!!!

oh yea.. persecuting people who aren't like you in color or sexual orientation or gender for literally decades and you want to cry now since they aren't being controlled anymore.. and cry its discrimination against white people.. ROFL

i always thought doctors were more intelligent than that ? maybe there is an exception to every rule.

Churches need to be taxed because they insist on getting bills passed to favor their belief systems.

If they insist on meddling in politics, they have no right being tax exempt.

One does not need to step foot in a church to get married, so your statement is moot.

Churches need to be taxed because they insist on getting bills passed to favor their belief systems.

Isn't that exactly what gay people are doing? rhetorical question, the answer is yes. Not only are they passing bills based on what they believe. The bills are also destructive and bias against churches and private organizations.

the more destructive against the churches, THE BETTER. Religion is the opium of the masses - mental placebo equivalent
for those brainwashed minions who can't afford the real thing

Brenda,

You are so correct and what a good point. Sandusky would have been welcomed at BSA and most child molesters seek out such organizations to carry out thier crimes against children.

Brenda, I see you left whites off that list of those who are discriminated against, yet also pay taxes. Why is that? Is that so you don't have to answer for the minority groups that are also given breaks, or minority students who's qualifications are set lower than their white counterparts? These are exclusive processes.

And, no, a tax break is not public funding, and no, it's not the same thing. The people of the organization (who have already been taxed on an individual level) fund it. If the government cuts them a check, then that would be funding it........

Sorry in-the-middle a tax break is public funding. If my parents send me money, I have to report it as income, even if they were already taxed on it. So I get taxed on it, why shouldn't BSA be taxed on money donated to them? Think things through next time before you write.

ockysays123

Not suprised by your answer. You're anti BSA, pro gay and obviously liberal. So it comes as no surprise that you're parents are still having to send you money.

FAIL

Sandusky didn't need the scouts - he had his own little foundation readily supplying fresh meat

You conservatives use the word "liberal" like it is an insult. I'm so proud of being liberal. It means that I know that I am part of a society, and not the most cherished part. I truly believe that conservatives believe they trump God. Jesus was much more human.

ocky.....

If you are paying income tax on money your parents gift to you, you're truly stupid. But that would be consistent with an adult being supported by his parents.

PBShort,

I do not understand your reasoning. Aren't LGBTs human and don't they deserve human and civil rights?

And PBShort should be denied his/her rights because of his/her sexual preference too.

When did joining any private organization become a civil right?

peanutGalleryTheater,

When a private organization takes or uses public funds in the way of a tax exemption or uses public lands for free, then joining becomes a civil right. If they want to discriminate, no tax exempt status and no use of public lands for free. If the latter were the case, I could care less how much they discriminate or who they discriminate against.

I have a suggestion Lois, start a new club, call it Gay Scouts of America (GSA). I would donate money just to get people like you to just shut the hell up already and worry about the real issues that this Country and World are facing.

That would make sense if the original scouts were referred to as the Straight Scouts of America. The fact is, whether straight or gay, these are all just young boys just trying to fit in & belong. I'm not sure why the Scouts make such an issue just because a child is gay, it really has nothing to do with the Boy Scout program.

in the "short" does that imply brain cells?

you DO realize that the question deals with KIDS between 7 and about 16, DON'T YOU?

As far as I know, ADULTS will still have to pass a background check to be a "leader"

PBShort, would you have had a problem with Sandusky being made a troop leader? After all, he was married with children. A heterosexual, pedophile, just like 95% of them. You want to keep someone away from children, keep heterosexual men away.

uh, foo... it's about CALIFORNIA

I'm glad you left too.

It's been even better since you left Vet 71-94

Nothing divine about humans, or religion.

Rick...it is all about FREEDOM....They want their freedom to do whatever THEY want but if THEY don't agree with your beliefs then THEY want you crushed.

"divine inspiration"... ROFLMFAO!! oh, it hurts to laugh so much... (BTW - I DESPISE SOCIAL MEDIA)

They have their HATE RADAR on for overweight people......on meat eaters......fast food eaters.....pop drinkers...you name it. They believe THEY are smarter and better than you are and THEY know what's right. They are hatemongers....spewing their hate to lot's of segments of society. I do NOT want to live in a society where we all have to fit in a little box that THEY decide to put us in.

"they" don't put you in those boxes. YOU DO IT YOURSELF.

Do you realize that ALL organizations that do good work like...the Salvation Army, Goodwill, Smile Train, Habitat for Humaninty, World Vision among many, will effectively be over. Since Obama became president donations of any kind are way done. That is attributed to the economy. There are some things that should be tax deductible and giving, should be one of them. Otherwise, WE the TAX PAYER will pay a lot more in the end with higher taxes to help these organizations stay afloat through the government.

first off, you can eliminate the religious "herd increasing" so called good work. Second , your premise that the taxpayer will pay more to keep a so called charitable organization afloat is bogus. SINCE THEY WOULD BE TAXED, they are by no means TOO BIG TO FAIL

So there shouldn't laws or regulations because criminals won't obey them? So bank robbery should be made legal because only law abiding people don't rob banks? Or maybe murder should be made legal because murders ignore the law. I am a gun owner, in fact I own quite a few guns, but I find the argument that there shouldn't be laws regulating guns on the basis that criminals will ignore them ridiculous. By that logic any law that criminals break should be done away with simply because criminals break it.

That's ridiculous.

so was the idiotic argument about not requiring liability insurance. so what?

Fed Up-903024,

I agree with you totally! It's because they accept public funds in the way of a tax exemption and use public lands that I am for taxing them. If they use nothing public, they are free to discriminate and stand on thier own merits. I would not care how much or who they discriminated against. If they want to use anything public, the public has a right to have a say in it's bylaws and such.

Let the public vote then.

vote on what? If they are indeed a totally private organization without tax exempt status, the net result is "no problem". Remember, though - the loss of tax exempt status has other implications