'Vet Ink' shares tales of battle, loss and life-long pride

Kate Singh / Clark County Historical Museum

Victoria Parker's tattoos honor five soldiers in her unit who were killed in Iraq during her second deployment there.

The five men are not her brothers. But that’s what she calls them.

The five initials are not for her children. But many who spot her non-sleeved left arm ask if the tight stack of black letters represents her kids. The question bothers her.


From the top of her booming bicep — where “M.G. 27 JAN 07” is positioned — to the bottom of the bulge — where “B.E.” rests — Army Reserve Drill Sgt. Victoria Parker’s limb permanently honors the five fellow soldiers in her unit who were killed in Iraq during her second deployment there. Images of those those tattoos also went on display Tuesday as part of “Vet Ink,” an exhibit at the Clark County Historical Museum in Vancouver, Wash.


“The motto is: ‘Always remember, never forgot.’ I told them I would always remember them. And by putting it on my arm, I remember them every day. I think about them every day,” said Parker, 27, who lives in Vancouver. Her largest, accompanying tattoo depicts the “fallen soldier battle cross” — a helmet poised on a standing rifle placed inside empty, unlaced boots. That was inked from a photo she snapped of the memorial shrine set up for Army Sgt. Blair Emery (“B.E.”), killed in a roadside bomb attack in 2007 in Taji, just north of Baghdad.

“The tattoos helped me cope and move on and still honor their memories,” Parker said. “It’s no longer painful.”

“Vet Ink” is the brainchild of Susan Tissot, executive director of the museum, located in a city rich with Army roots. Before the Civil War, then-Capt. Ulysses S. Grant was quartermaster at the Columbia Army Barracks in that town. Vancouver has also served as home to part of the 104th Infantry Division.

Kate Singh / Clark County Historical Museum

Tattoos on the back of Jeremy Hubbard.

“The Army is very prevalent in everything we do — there are a lot of veterans here, a lot of Army personnel and our former mayor was a colonel in the Army. My father-in-law is a retired Naval officer,” Tissot said. “It’s a very personal exhibit.

“I knew the tattoos told a story," she added. "It’s a very touching story." 

“Vet Ink” spans military members who served from the 1950s through to today’s armed forces — 11 veterans (or active members or reserves) spanning every branch but the Coast Guard. Each panel details their time in uniform as well as when and why they decided to get tattooed.

Some of the images, like those gracing Parker’s arm, represent the “memorial” category of ink art that recall the fallen or a certain battle. Among military tattoos — a tradition that sprouted among Navy sailors generations ago but now are commonplace among post-9/11 veterans — are the other three classes: “patriotic” (flags, eagles), “spiritual” (a star, a cross, the Virgin Mary), and “identity,” (a specific unit, battalion or division), according to Kristina Wells, the museum’s collections manager.

“There’s been an interesting evolution in what tattoos the military would even accept. Our Vietnam veteran in the exhibit and one of the other 1960s service guys who took part didn’t get their tattoos until they were in their 60s. It was less accepted by the military back then,” Wells said. “If you were tattooed, you maybe wouldn’t even be accepted into the Army and Marines (during that era).”

Later, military regulations were relaxed, and banned tattoos on the neck and face.

Kate Singh / Clark County Historical Museum

Christian Nippolt-Vetter.

The ink also once carried something of a “hidden” code, especially in the Navy, according to the museum. For example, the image of a sparrow or swallow signified having traveled 5,000 or more miles. Tattoos of pigs or roosters were good-luck charms meant to prevent drowning because those animals often were carried in wooden crates, which would float if the ship ever sank.

For Parker, the tattoos also serve as a shorthand account of her combat experiences for any other veterans who spy them — an “automatic understanding” and a “unifying symbol.” She said she and fellow veterans can read one another’s service history from their ink.

But for those who haven’t served, she said, there is often misunderstanding.

“I get a lot of people asking me if they’re my kids. That’s frustrating and hurtful,” Parker said. “The female veterans, we’re so invisible. People don’t assume we’re veterans at all.”

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‘Always remember, never forgot.’ I told them I would always remember them." Me too.

  • 7 votes
Reply#1 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:30 AM EST

“The female veterans, we’re so invisible. People don’t assume we’re veterans at all.”

That one, you'll just have to get over. There's a boundless crop of people who think they know it all and you can't possibly have accomplished half of what you have. It was an honor and a privilege to do what you did and know what you know - and you move on with that comfort.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:46 AM EST

Blut ist dicker als Wasser

When strangers become blood

  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:51 AM EST

This ink is so much more than just a tattoo.

  • 7 votes
#1.3 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:06 AM EST

Honor is taught to all in the military. Some take it seriously and some do not (commonly called a republican). Honor can be understood fully by anyone if they try. These females in our military earn it when they decide to serve. God bless them all (even the republicans).

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:54 PM EST

Kate Singh, Aevum Images, photographed the veterans. Her photos in the exhibit show the respect and honor each of these individuals deserve.

  • 1 vote
#1.5 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:36 PM EST

rocky have to object to that(the republican comment) I have yet to meet a dem who believes service I preferable to welfare. but then I am neither I prefer to think for myself.

  • 1 vote
#1.6 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:26 PM EST

Got my eagle/anchor on my arm Dec 1951, first liberty san diego, at a place called 'painless nells', cost $6, came home on boot leave, my mother almost disowned me, its almost faded out...The good od days......

    #1.8 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:58 PM EST
    Reply

    Ne Obliviscaris.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#2 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:47 AM EST

    I know many, many military men and women who have gotten tattoos to honor their fallen brothers and sisters and some are absolutely breathtaking and so heartbreaking knowing that so many men and women have died in combat. Thank you to all my fellow Veterans regardless of when you have served or in what capacity and to the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, and friends who care for each and every one of us.

    Lastly - Victoria Parker you have got some serious guns.

    • 15 votes
    Reply#3 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:50 AM EST

    It is nasty no matter for what reason.

    • 4 votes
    Reply#4 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:50 AM EST
    DamyouDeleted

    idiot tattoo hater. beautiful way some of choose to permantly honor some we have been close to & never want to forget. I'm not in the military but I do have a tattoo that is a memorial to a married couple, both now passed I was close to. Obviously as a tattoo hater it would never cross idiots mind to honor someone in this way. And by the way, idiot, how dare you criricize people who have fought for the country-including your sorry ass, so you do have the liberty to criticize. As above comment shows, our military people pay a heavy price, including some who give thier lives. if thier surviving comrades choose to honor them by memorial tattoos, and the tattoos help them cope with what they have been thru=more power to them. Vets and those currently serving-THANK YOU!

    • 8 votes
    #4.2 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:41 AM EST

    Tromboner...seriously? Personally, I am not a fan of tattoos and I have none. My children won't get a tattoo while in our home. That is not to say they can't make a free choice of what to do with their bodies when they grow up to be their own people and to make their own decisions about their bodies. Their bodies their choice.

    As the story reads...these memorials in ink actually say a great deal about the person who commits these images to their bodies. They appear to have a specific reverence to their time in the military" sacrifices, relationships, commitment, duty and honor.

    If you aren't a fan then don't get a tattoo. Perhaps maybe you should look past the ink and instead consider the person who felt so compelled to have their daily reminder in their own way.

    • 4 votes
    #4.3 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:23 AM EST

    To each his/her own, but FU Tromboner for not showing a little tact in your expression of your preferences, something like "May not be my thing, but to each his/her own"

    Getting my 3rd piece tonight, a memorial as a matter of fact.

    • 8 votes
    #4.4 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:56 AM EST
    Comment author avatarMike Oxmallvia Facebook

    Ha! A person who uses sexual innuendo about an erection as their username is going to tell us what is nasty. How rich.

    • 5 votes
    #4.5 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:03 AM EST

    @txmom32 - I totally agree with you. I don't see myself ever getting a tattoo, but I would never try to tell someone else what to do with his/ her own body. My son is active duty. He served in the Air Force and recently switched to the Marine Corp. I am extremely proud of him and all of the men and women who put their lives on the line. My son got a tattoo last year of a religious symbol on his side. It is tasteful and he's in great shape, so it looks good.

    If these vets want to honor their comrades or it proves to be therapy for them, go for it. Haven't they done enough for us? Haven't they earned the right to get a tattoo?

    • 6 votes
    #4.6 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:12 AM EST

    If I did get a tattoo it would be something honoring my fellow vets (Vietnam 67-68). After years of trying to explain "what was that like" to people, I finally came to the realization that the only answer is that you had to have been there. It was the most "real" experience I've ever had, before or since, and I'll never forget it, and I know these soldiers never will either. It will always be the defining moment in their lives and I think the tattoos of the people who had their backs is the ultimate expression of respect.

    • 5 votes
    #4.7 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:20 AM EST

    Many years ago I was refuelling my vehicle in eastern Oregon when a gentleman passing by spotted the disabled vet markings on the plates.

    He approached me and asked where I had served (in 'nam). Sadly, I had to tell him I was Vietnam era (as I graduated H.S. in 74 and enlisted a few days later (USN)).

    I was sad as he walked away muttering that I'd never understand. He was correct. It saddened me I couldn't give him what he needed.

    My uncle was in Korea and did three tours in 'Nam. He retired as a WO4 in '73, I believe.

    I found out a few years ago a cousin was a medic in 'Nam.

    For myself, I had broken service and crossed decked to USAF. I fought off a hefty disability medical for almost seven years. Went from EM to ET. 32870/32871/32650. I was retired over twenty years ago. No regrets.

    Kind Regards;

    • 3 votes
    #4.8 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:34 PM EST

    your mama's nastey . now off yourself

      #4.9 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:52 PM EST

      stoney-1938546; hear you,similar one here,but not retired.my dad was korea veteran,had field comish but wasnt perm.short 2mo little less.my time usn made me 'understand' about resonsabilities he,an some other family members went through.13th was 2nd aniversary his passing,could say more but just moot i guess.got my only 'tat' old man lee on broadway salty dog.enough for me,thnx to all.

        #4.10 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:32 PM EST
        Reply

        As a female veteran, I have an Eagle in flight holding the Ensign in it's talons taking up my entire right bicep (from shoulder to elbow) to symbolize my dedication to upholding the principles of the United States Constitution.

        • 10 votes
        Reply#5 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:58 AM EST

        Principles like illegal wars of aggression based on lies told by evil presidents and vice-presidents? Please tell me where in the Constitution that is located.

        • 2 votes
        #5.1 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:46 AM EST

        Sir Kit - you are obviously a bitter person to say something like that to someone who has fought for this country. Corrupt officials and meaningless wars aside, these people risked their lives to support our country as a whole. The principles of the Constitution go deeper than what many politicians choose to follow these days. You don't have to support them, but support our troops.

        • 13 votes
        #5.2 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:51 AM EST

        Coward Kit,

        You can kiss my Army beeswax!

        • 5 votes
        #5.3 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:53 AM EST

        Sir Kit, you're a fkcuking idiot.

        • 6 votes
        #5.4 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:46 AM EST

        Sir Kit, When you enter the military you swear an oath to defend the Constitution. To defend anything you cannot stand behind it you must stand in front of it.

        • 8 votes
        #5.5 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:48 AM EST

        Sir Kit You are a true idiot. The wars that you call illegal were both voted on by the entire congress but you in your extreme narrow sightedness only blame 2 people. Well you better open you eyes and see that your pure hate is only destroying you and no one else. As a retired combat Vet. I am very proud of these wonderful veterans and even though I don't agree with you or your comment I was willing to give my life for 21 years just so you could be as big of an idiot as you wished to be and say as many stupid things as you wanted to.

        • 5 votes
        #5.6 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:57 AM EST

        Kit is todays typical far left wing idiot. Insults the very people that give him the freedom to run his mouth behind his little computer. Said thing is that people like Kit will never serve anything but fries and milkshakes.

        • 5 votes
        #5.7 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:22 AM EST

        Ad hominem attacks come from those who have no other argument to make.

        • 1 vote
        #5.8 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:10 AM EST

        ok, Sir Kit, the military does not determine the "legallity" of the wars and orders given to them by the commander in chief AND the congress (you left them out in your rant), they just execute them...

        Article 1 Section 7: congress authorized the war spending bills...repeatedly through both adminstrations

        Article 1 Sction 8: provide for common defense, declare war (they authorized the spending!), rules for raising military

        Article 2 Section 2: President is commander in chief, power to make treaties (for example with the UN, and UN resolutions)

        so, which legitimate court of law has determined the war(s) to be illegal?

        • 2 votes
        #5.9 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:30 AM EST

        The Nazi's were "just following orders" too. Remember the Nuremberg trials? Committing illegal acts because an officer commanded you to is not an excuse.

          #5.10 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:40 AM EST

          Sir Kit, instead of answering my question about what illegal acts have and were committed in regards to authorizing wars in iraq and afghanistan (or in the troops following these orders), as determined by which legitimate court, you shifted the argument into crap about the Nazis (how predictable). would you like to try again? afterall, it is your argument, isn't it?

          • 6 votes
          #5.11 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:45 AM EST

          The cowardly kit fool has no argument and appears to be even less educated. I'll address his mental toddler red herrings. A US soldier is charged to disobey illegal orders.

          German troops had no choice. They either obeyed the orders or were shot.

          Kits own actions and verbiage demonstrates you've obliterated his droolings.

          • 2 votes
          #5.12 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:43 PM EST
          Reply

          Tattooing is ungodly and there were no weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in Iraq.

          • 2 votes
          Reply#6 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:10 AM EST
          DamyouDeleted

          Ta-deu Are you naturally born stupid or are you a self made person???? What do you call 550 tons of yellow cake uranium?

          • 3 votes
          #6.2 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:05 AM EST
          Comment author avatarMike Oxmallvia Facebook

          Uh, God is a fiction story so being "ungodly" is like saying you are "un Harry Potterish"

          Grow up.

            #6.3 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:06 AM EST

            I call 550 tons of yellow cake uranium a fairy tale concocted by the Neocon criminals who occupied the Executive Branch of the government from Jan 2001 to Jan 2009.

            • 5 votes
            #6.4 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:08 AM EST

            Sir Kit only because you are not willing to admit the fact but I would expect no less from a "King Tut" as yourself. You know King Tut right the king of denial..... By the way you can check CNN, NBC any news source you like and google Iraqi yellow cake uranium sale to Canada and see the truth if you have the guts to see the truth which I doubt.

            • 2 votes
            #6.5 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:42 AM EST

            he prefers to ignore the fact that hussein did have chemical weapons, had used them, then stonewalled legal UN inspectors for 20 years in efforts to either hide what he had, or give the illusion that he had the weapons and programs to make himself/his country appear more powerful to his neighbors.

            • 3 votes
            #6.6 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:50 AM EST

            These stories came from the same Pentagon run by Donald Rumsfeld...the liar war criminal who started the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan. Why were the "sources" for these articles anonymous? Because no one wanted to put their names on the blatant lies. And why did the US ship the "yellow cake" to Canada? Why not just to Oak Ridge, TN? Why didn't the Iraqi Republican Guard not try to use this yellow cake against the invading Americans?

            Way too many illogical things in this story...and way too many questions for this story to be credible. Why are some people only concerned when the mainstream media lies about Republicans, Christians, and right-wingers? It seems like old Rummy and Condy Rice were just trying to cover their tracks (and for Cheney, Powell, and Bush) by putting out this story do deflect from their illegal actions.

              #6.7 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:07 PM EST

              Sir Kit, as soon as you start babbling (and yes its babbling) about garbage like republicans, right wing, christians, conspiracies to cover their tracks, etc... then you have completely lost all credibility and wasted your time and everyone elses. hussein has chemical weapons, hussein has used chemical weapons on his own people, hussein stonewalled UN inspectors for 20 years in efforts to either hide or deceive, and you are wrapped up about faulty intelligence/conspiracies?!?! seriously?!?!

              as for "illegal" actions, you still have yet to provide any ruling from a legitimate court, i.e one that has jurusdiction, that has determined any actions to actually be illegal. UN resolutions, as well as congressional authorizations, in accordanc with actual law, have also played a role, but for whatever nonsensical partisan reasons, you have conveniently chosen to completely disregard those parts of the overall equation...

              • 1 vote
              #6.8 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:14 PM EST
              Reply

              Well, if THAT ain't TIT fer TAT! I don't know WHAT IS!

              • 2 votes
              Reply#7 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:24 AM EST

              Tattoos are ugly

              • 3 votes
              Reply#8 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:46 AM EST

              And so are you.

              • 7 votes
              #8.1 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:52 AM EST

              no one is asking you to get one, idiot, but these people fought for your right to be an idiot

              • 6 votes
              #8.2 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:45 AM EST

              69 quit Fantasizing you didn't do SQUAT for me like I said below Give It a Break.

                #8.3 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:51 AM EST
                Comment author avatarMike Oxmallvia Facebook

                So are trolls but keep trying.

                • 2 votes
                #8.4 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:07 AM EST

                yankmycranknfile, the problem with someone like you is that you are too stupid, clueless, and selfish to even gras what others actually do for you, especially those in the military. you're just an independent tough guy, a venerable badass who stands for, well, absolutely nothing. we get it...LMAO

                • 1 vote
                #8.5 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:12 AM EST

                I gras everything

                  #8.6 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:03 PM EST

                  yes, you grasped a typo. bravo! well done! you get a gold star for your refrigerator...

                  • 2 votes
                  #8.7 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:16 PM EST

                  Perhaps 'ranknfile', you should ungrasp yourself and go get an education. Then again, your mommy might want you to clean your room first.

                  • 1 vote
                  #8.8 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:29 PM EST
                  Reply

                  I think it's a nice way of remembering those whom you fought with and it's a touching reminder of the risks the men and women in the military face. I commend each veteran and fallen who has served for our country. No matter how much my country upsets me right now, I'm proud of those who stand for its most basic principles and put their lives on the line so that the rest of us back home have someone to look up to.

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#9 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:55 AM EST

                  It's better to be looked up at than to be looking up.

                    #9.1 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:51 AM EST
                    Reply

                    "Give it a Break"

                      Reply#10 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:06 AM EST

                      I am one of the 'Nam' guys, and for many years afterward I was a practicing tattoo artist. It is incorrect that during the Nam, service members were reluctant to get tattoos, in fact it was common. Typically in that time, most were able to cover tattoos with their uniform, but that wasn't always the case. A soldier could be disciplined under UCMJ, for destruction of government property for getting tattoos, but I can't recall one incident of that actually happening. The origin of military tattoos gos much farther back in history that the United States of America does. The original purpose of brands and tattoos on soldiers, was to perhaps make it easier to identify a fallen soldier, it was thought that ones comrades would be able to possibly recognize the body by the tattoo, if in fact the body had been damaged beyond recognition in battle. Since those ancient times the purpose has changed, and varies according to the individual. The art of tattooing has changed, and continues to change, public acceptance is ever changing, going from one extreme to the other, and anywhere in between. Currently it is very acceptable, both military, and civilians. One of the things I worked on when tattooing was the single needle, bloodline method of tattooing, before we began that method, all tattoos had thick black outlines, and I was often told by my fellow tattoo artists it wouldn't work. The concept was to outline without using ink, then shade up to that line, somewhere someone came up with the term 'bloodline' for obvious reasons. I had heard from former prisoners of a method of using a single fine guitar string, and a cassette player motor to create a jail house tattoo, and many I was shown had some nice fine lines, so, along with some fellow artists, we adapted 3 needle outliners to single needle, and that worked well. The pigments and composition of tattooing inks has improved from those days, using astringents as liquifying agents, the colors are much more vibrant, and don't fade like what we had available in the '70's, and '80's, but we were far ahead of what was available in the 40's, 50's, or 60's. I was often asked to recolor old tattoos from the WWII and Korean war era, because the colors we had were so much better. That is old technology now, which it is my opinion, the technology of today has much to do with the increase in popularity.

                      • 5 votes
                      Reply#11 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:32 AM EST

                      public acceptance is ever changing, going from one extreme to the other,

                      This has been called many things over the years from everybodies doing it, to fads, to statements. I'm a Vietnam vet and vetern of Desert Sheild /Storm and never had an urge get a Tat about it. I have my memorabilia to remind me of happy and sad times with my buddies. There are couple of times a years where I hoist a drink to my fallen friends. We all remember things in our own ways.

                      • 3 votes
                      #11.1 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:01 AM EST

                      Andy Blackwood. Thank you for the historical information.

                      • 1 vote
                      #11.2 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:28 AM EST

                      Seconding txmom's thank you, I'm heading in for #3 tonight and it is my first color piece. It's a memorial of sorts despite the person abhoring ink, it's my statement. I wonder what's in store as my baseline was pretty good, but the artist is very well known and may just use bloodline. He's been doing this for over 25 years now, I guess I will see.

                        #11.3 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:06 AM EST
                        Reply

                        I was never into tattoos or jewelry. One time while I was with three Marines from my sub unit they set off to get inked. I didn't want one so I stood outside the tattoo parlor and waited while they got theirs. My father had a tattoo. He was a Marine and was drunk one time and a sailer who knew how to tattoo inked the Marine Corps emblem on my father's lower arm.

                          Reply#12 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:35 AM EST

                          forget. not fogot. who proof reads these stories?

                            Reply#13 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:44 AM EST

                            thats what you got from the article? a spelling error?

                            • 1 vote
                            #13.1 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:12 AM EST
                            Reply

                            Its not just the military, society in general has gone tattoo crazy and at a very young age. I spent twenty years in the Navy and never saw as many tattoos as I am seeing now on the younger generation. Just remember that some people might not find them that appealing during a job interview when you get out.

                              Reply#14 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:03 AM EST

                              Sir Kit,

                              When I was seven years old, my family and I were stationed in CA. At the time, my Uncle Jimmy had been MIA in Vietnam for three years. We believed him dead. Then one morning, my father came home from the base to tell my mother that her brother was being flown home. We all went to meet him. My uncle came off the plane on a stretcher, with I.V. bottles everywhere. He was in full dress uniform and I will always remember vividly the spit shined shoes. I will remember because of people such as you. The older lady walked up to his feet and spit on his shoe. I was seven. I am a fourth generation military brat and I respect all of the family's tats. Perhaps you should have been present and accounted for when the towers fell. Our's is not ask but to do what is asked and then pray it is for the right reasons.

                              Honor them sir, because without them you would likely not have been allowed to freely state your mind.

                              • 7 votes
                              Reply#15 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:05 AM EST

                              As far as I know, the US wasn't attacked by either Iraqis or Afghanis. The 9/11 commission report said it was an attack from a rogue terrorist group known as Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda in 2001 was mainly made up of Saudis, Egyptians, and Yemenis. I think the US might have invaded the wrong countries - because they "hate us for our freedoms". Come to think of it, I don't recall the Vietnamese invading or attacking the US either. Tell me again why Southeast Asia was invaded.

                                #15.1 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:18 AM EST

                                Al Qaeda and the leadership who ordered the attacks were trained and based in Afghanistan. They were acting under the protection of the Afghan goverment, i.e. the Taliban, and they refused to turn the criminals over. The Saudis, Egyptians, and Yemenis, nor their governments, had anything to do with other than nationality. They were individuals acting outside of their native countries.

                                • 1 vote
                                #15.2 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:36 AM EST

                                Afghanistan is and always has been a tribal nation...one cobbled together by the British following colonization and created from at least 6 different tribal nation-states (Persians, Pashtuns, Pakistanis, and Mongols). The "Taliban" is a catch-all term for tribal leaders of these various nation-states. The Northern Alliance - a collection of several leaders from the tribes in the North - were in control of Northern Afghanistan, while the Taliban were a loose collection of tribal elders and Islamic leaders. Not all of the "Taliban" supported the Al-Qaeda leadership. In fact, the Shiite Persian factions are generally against the Sunni Saudi led Al-Qaeda. An yet, all of Afghanistan, including those portions that were not sympathetic to the Al-Qaeda leadership, was invaded and bombed following the illegal US invasion.

                                In short, it would be like invading the US as retribution for the acts of Timothy McVeigh after Oklahoma City.

                                  #15.3 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:56 AM EST

                                  I'm very aware of the make up of tribal and national government of afghanistan, you dissertation is partly correct. but still, your points are quite "off" if the US, or local governments had refused to turn over timothy mcveigh, along with his training camps and leadership, as opposed to providing cover for them, then you might actually have a point...

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #15.4 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:01 PM EST

                                  Tell me again why Southeast Asia was invaded.

                                  @Sir Kit:

                                  We were in Nam because Ho Chi Minh was systematically butchering people all over the South Viet Nam that were against Communist rule. These were mostly peasants and farmers, much like the common folk in our country, albeit living in a country with few of our amenities. Had we not gone there the historians believe that Thailand would surely be communist by now and possibly even New Zealand and Australia. After signing a treaty guaranteeing that they would NOT invade S. Viet Nam, they invaded as soon as the last American left and perpetrated one of the biggest bloodbaths in history upon the south. Contrary to your beliefs, there are sometimes valid reasons to go to war, sometimes not, but Nam was definitely worth fighting for, the mistake was pulling out when we did, we should have gone north and finished the job that we started. Oh, and the final tally was US killed over 2 million, NV killed 58,000, so tell me again who really won.

                                  • 5 votes
                                  #15.5 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:04 PM EST

                                  US killed 2 million...tell me again who the butchers were

                                    #15.6 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:09 PM EST

                                    Over 90% of those killed were enemy that had invaded the country from the north. What would you do, Sir Kit, ask them in for tea? War is hell, that's why you want people who've seen it first hand to have at least some say in whether our country goes to war (Iraq, Afghanistan, where you had a whole slate of pussy-morons running the country, all of which were too good to serve in Nam). I don't like war, you don't like war, but as long as there's more than one country in this mixed-up world, there will be wars. After that it will be civil wars, you know that as well as I do.

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #15.7 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:49 PM EST
                                    Reply

                                    Dear Victoria,

                                    My profound hope is that all of the returning vets find peace. Your body ink keeps your buddies alive. We will never forget! Whoever did this work is the best.

                                    A Veteran

                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#16 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:31 AM EST

                                    Dear Victoria,

                                    My profound hope is that all of the returning vets find peace. Your body ink keeps your buddies alive. We will never forget! Whoever did this work is the best.

                                    A Veteran

                                      Reply#17 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:32 AM EST
                                      Reply

                                      Whether you agree with any given administration or not, for those who support the troops/vets regardless... Thank you. We appreciate it.

                                      • 4 votes
                                      Reply#18 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:35 AM EST

                                      To all my fellow veterans i would like to say thank you for all you have done; your service and sacrifices will never be forgotten. To my two fallen brothers from that fateful day 22 years ago....I'm sorry I couldn't do more.

                                      • 3 votes
                                      Reply#20 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:02 AM EST

                                      I got a couple tats on each of my arms for my son Rick who was KIA in AFG by a VBED on 18 May 2010 and I buried him with the rest of the hero's in Arlington... He is always with me in mind and spirit..

                                      Civilians just don't understand or comprehend, .99.9% have no connection with the military, and some think they support the troops by placing a magnetic yellow ribbon on their car..ridiculous..

                                      Gold Star Dad.. And Master Sergeant, US Army, Retired..

                                      • 7 votes
                                      Reply#21 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:10 PM EST

                                      I Support the Troops I wear Camouflage Underwear.

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #21.1 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:22 PM EST

                                      Brother, thank you for your service and especially your sons...

                                      • 3 votes
                                      #21.2 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:25 PM EST

                                      ranknfile, you support nothing but stupidity, and do a great job demonstrating it...

                                      • 4 votes
                                      #21.3 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:26 PM EST

                                      Dawg thanks for your service and for your son's as well. May he rest in peace.

                                      • 4 votes
                                      #21.4 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:27 PM EST

                                      ranknfile:

                                      I Support the Troops I wear Camouflage Underwear

                                      Did not know they made pink camo? Did they make you a hole in the back for fun?

                                      • 3 votes
                                      #21.5 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:01 PM EST
                                      Reply

                                      Tattoos are a long-term solution to short-term emotion. Many regret getting them later on.

                                      • 1 vote
                                      Reply#22 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:41 PM EST

                                      and many don't. particularly those who actually put thought and meaning into them, get them done by a good artist so they don't look crappy, and don't get them in places that might prevent someone from giving them a good job later on. personally, i respect the meaning and symbolism of these folks tattoos, as well as their freedom of personal expression, despite not liking the particular style of the work done.

                                      so whats your point? that you don't like them?

                                        #22.1 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:19 PM EST

                                        I've spoken with many people who have tattoos, civilian and military. Of all the people I've spoken to, only ONE vet felt regret about his tattoo - and that was because his ~wife~ hated it so much, not because of how he felt about it! As a rule, civilians may later regret their tattoos, but most of our military and vets do ~not~ regret theirs!

                                        By the way, what's short term to you? Do you think these guys who are ~still~ having nightmares decades after they watched their friends get blown up or helped carry their buddies' bodies out of the rubble think those emotions are short term? Those who have actually experienced life in danger zones have a different take on what ~you~ think of as a "short term emotion."

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #22.2 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:48 PM EST
                                        Reply

                                        34 years Navy here. I never had the desire to get a tattoo. I remember my 'brothers' without a physical sign. I honor their memories by flying our flag every day.

                                        • 6 votes
                                        Reply#23 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:49 PM EST

                                        to each his own, isnt that what freedom is about? any thanks for your service, too...

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #23.1 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:20 PM EST
                                        Reply

                                        sir kit( get the hell out of my country)

                                        • 3 votes
                                        Reply#24 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:05 PM EST

                                        2/22/13 We Will Never Forget I say a very sincere THANK YOU to OUR FALLEN & THEIR FAMILIES.

                                        The Brutal Honest Truth: ONLY Our Military & Their Families, Our Veterans & Their Families are Fighting this War on Terrorism. Just mention the word Afghanistan then witness just how fast your fellow Americans will Turn & Walk Away. They Don't Want to Hear It. It's not important to them.

                                        I am a Army Veteran, Drafted July 1969 served w/ the 82nd Airborne. I could go on a Rant about the Nam but I won't. America still won't admit that the total American Casualities of War is much much Higher than 58 Thousand. Over 189 Thousand Americans were Killed by AGENT ORANGE one of which was My Oldest Brother but that is a Taboo issue that can not be spoken about. That's another issue, You mention AGENT ORANGE & witness how fast Americans Turn & Walk Away.

                                        May ALL OF OUR TROOPS COME HOME ALIVE & WELL & SOON,VERY SOON

                                        May GOD BE WITH THEM & KEEP THEM SAFE !

                                        SPW in Alaska "Airborne All the Way"

                                        • 5 votes
                                        Reply#25 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:28 PM EST

                                        Even though this disabled veteran never desired to have any tattoos, I feel that this is a wonderful way that you remember and honor your brothers and sisters in arms. God Bless all of you who served and thank you for your service and for the Vietnam Vets - Welcome Home.

                                        • 4 votes
                                        Reply#26 - Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:20 PM EST
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