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Subscribe to RSSLAPD Capt. Phil Tingirides and LAPD Sgt. Emada Tingirides recalled fearful and anxious days under police protection, after their eight-member family was targeted by former LAPD officer Christopher Dorner.
Bullet holes in front doors, trees and a kitchen serve as reminders of the chaos brought to their Torrance, Calif. neighborhood during a frantic manhunt for an ex-police officer bent on revenge killings.
Nine bullets pierced a tree on Redbeam Avenue where two newspaper delivery women were shot by police officers who had mistaken them for fugitive Christopher Dorner.
Margie Carranza and her 71-year-old mother, Emma Hernandez, were delivering the Los Angeles Times before dawn near the home of a police officer named in Dorner’s angry manifesto.
The shooting occurred Feb. 7 after officers were notified of a truck that matched the description of Dorner’s gray 2005 Nissan Titan. Hernandez suffered two bullet wounds to the back. She was released from the intensive care unit and was recovering. Carranza, 47, had minor injuries related to shattered glass and a wounded finger.
The women’s lawyer counted 102 bullet holes in their blue Toyota Tacoma and several more in Hernandez’s hoodie.
Weeks later, memories of the shooting were still evident, with five bullet holes piercing a home’s front door and more in walls and garages that lined the street.
"My guess is that they threw policy out the window and got in trouble," said resident Steve McDonald, whose solar panels sustained bullet damage. "They're lucky they didn't hit each other because there were bullets flying every which way."
More news from NBCLosAngeles.com
NBC4 has learned that eight LAPD officers were involved in the shootout. All of them have been assigned to non-field assignments until "the [police] chief decides otherwise."
So far, their names have not been released and there has been no comment from the Los Angeles District Attorney about pressing charges.
An attorney for the women, Glen Jonas said he’ll let the investigation run its course.
"If the city wants to do it the easy way and get it resolved; if they want to do it for hard way, then we’ll file a lawsuit," he said.
Police said they cannot comment on on-going internal investigations.
But some residents, despite being so close to the gunfire, said they understand the officers’ actions.
"I think they have to be supported through this," said Joanne Arnn. "Yes, it's unfortunate, thank goodness no one here was fatally injured, but it's not a very safe world."
Arnn said that Torrance Police Department contacted each household on the block to learn if anyone was injuries and offered to pay for any damage to their homes.
About two blocks away and thirty minutes after the women were shot, a Redondo Beach man was fired upon by officers who also mistook him for the wanted Dorner.
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This whole case is going to be good for a book and a movie.......
As far as the $$ for the reward....spread it around among the victims and those who suffered damages.
And find out the truth and tell the public, regardless of what it is.
And hold police officers individually accountable for shooting civilians in a case of "mistaken identity." There is nothing acceptable about this. Nothing! If justice is to be done here there will be charges filed and a jury will be the final artiters of guilt or innocence, not the LAPD or the DA's office.
Ban Assault Police!
I'm sure things would have turned out much better if those newspaper delivery ladies were armed and carrying. More guns! More guns!!!
Are you F&$king kidding me!!!! They should be in jail... Period!
1. They were looking for a gray 2005 Nissan Titan. These dumb f_cks shot up a BLUE Toyota Tacoma. REALLY??? WOW!
2. Without identifying the personal in the vehicle, they open fired and pumped this truck with 102 rounds. Thank goodness that they were horrible shots, or those two probably be dead.
That is the first question I asked after finding out the outcome of the people in the truck. The way that truck was facing, bullets had to enter the houses in front of it. These 8 cops should be fired and charged with attempted murder because of their ignorance. How can a ROYAL BLUE TOYOTA TACOMA be mistaken for a GRAY NISSAN TITAN, by a group of cops whom some probably pride themselves of being "wrench turners?" No way can you mis-identify ROYAL BLUE as being GRAY!!!
I believe the police chief said he would make sure the two ladies were given a NEW truck!
Dorner wasn't paranoid. He was dead on right. These LAPD ass clowns throw protocol and established rules right out the window whenever they feel like it. They are the biggest, most armed gang in California, maybe the United States.
This should result in an FBI investigation of the whole corrupt department.
I do not believe that Dorner took the right course of action against the LAPD, but he sure wasn't wrong in his assertion that they are corrupt and they think they can cover up any wrong-doing on their part.
@ 12thman post 1.4,
I totally agree and I'm the father of an officer (not involved). There is no excuse for shooting innocent people. They need to spend some time in jail thinking about what they did and pay restitution for damages and hospital bills. This is a good example of why we need to keep our arms. Heaven forbid there ever be a day like Syria where out police decide to do as our government orders and start shooting citizens. It the reason behind the 2nd Amendment. It also shows why a 10 round clip won't stop 100+ rounds.
There will be no reward.. fckening lapd.. bunch of crooks
I would like to know how eight trained officers accidentally mistake a BLUE Toyota Tacoma for a GREY Nissan Titan? They look nothing alike, not the same body, height, COLOR, nothing. The only common factor is they are a truck, in which case 25% of the population could be caught in accidental mistaken identity for driving a truck. geez coppers, get it together. I hope you are stuck at a desk job for the next decade!
Those 8 dunces shot 102 rounds at the wrong pickup truck, and only 2 rounds hit their unintentional target. (I wonder how many other rounds did NOT hit the truck?)
These eight LAPD occifers should be in PRISON; and NOT assigned to Meter Maid Duty !! The above quote gives the rationale for committing these 8 idiots to life in prison with no possibility for parole.
And these are trained professionals who know how to act under pressure. Now think about a "trained" amatuer teacher or whatever with a gun in hand to protect a school. Especially when the kook comes into a bldg. where the "protector" isn't and is being tracked down. Bang, bang, bang. Oh, it's the kids going to the bathroom. Thought I saw a kook. Give me a break, people.
Exactly Confussed-1578043!!! Hope your son stays safe.
Well it just means that will have to carry more then one 10 round clip. ;-)
Proof that medical marijuana is clearly abused in Ca.
What's more amazing than mistakeing the truck is confuseing two Mexican women to be a large black man. Did the officers even try to identify the occupants of the truck or did they just surround it and open fire?
Hard to tell what color it was at night. The ladies shouldn't have been driving with the lights out, and refusing to stop.
Con-972914
Obviously not! This is the reason people need to protect themselves.
"When seconds count the police are minutes away", and apparently that's a good thing in LA as it gives you time to take cover before they arrive.
Even more amazing than the case of mistaken (truck) identity is the fact that these examples of LA's Finest mistook a 71-year-old grandma and/or her daughter for Dorner...!??!
There's 12 year old girls in W.Va. that can shoot better than most of the LAPD!
MRZ: Don't diss my marijuana alright?? haha. I smoke everyday and this is in no way OK for them to do. Fu*k the pigs especially the LAPD which is one of the most corrupt govt entities in existence. I live in CA and Fresno, Oakland and LAPD are the worst when it comes to instances like this. The officers need to be fired end of story how can you fu*k this up? The vehicled didn't match the description and then they shoot at two women THINKING it was one man? Are you serious? Who are they hiring to be in the pd these days? There needs to be more accountability period since these "officers" are employed with taxpayers money. After all we demand such high expectations of our teachers but yet what of our police forces that brutalize, humiliate and mistreat innocent people! Our system is corrup and only getting worse. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
ashp,
My point exactly.
I think a basic thing people forget is that while there are some great cops out there, a lot of people become cops for the wrong reasons. Certain type of people take certain types of jobs, and a lot of cops take that job because they get to tell people what to do, because they get to carry a gun and act tough, because people are forced to listen to them. They get to satisfy their totalitarian urges. Not all of them of course. The best among them deserve our utmost support and recognition, recognition I think they often don't get. However, these type of incidents will always happen because of the type of person that seek out this type of employment.
Of course, the bad ones, as in this case, should be fired, and charges should be filed. But let's face it, every lawyer knows that the DA won't file charges against a cop unless the top brass approve it. They work with them too often to be willing to go against them. They know if they anger the cops the cops might not support them in the future (for instance, in an election or in pursuit of a promotion or even in a future prosecution).
Just think, if there comes a day common citizens are disarmed only highly trained professionals such as these, and criminals ,such as rappers in Vegas, will have guns. I feel safer already.
Confussed-1578043
You are 100% RIGHT once Obozo the Clown destroys the 2nd. Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. We will all be at the mercy of the Mexican Narco Terrorists, Criminals, Madmen, the Criminal Police. Drones and a repressive Government gone wild!
Guest245677
You are correct the system is corrupt andd once agaain will become even more coeeupt once Obozo destroys the 2nd. Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
Confussed at 1.8 The "government" does not have to give any order to start shooting citizens, police do it all on their own with little or no provocation. In LA, Houston, NYC, Portland OR, etc., etc., etc.
Fire these rogue cops, charge them with attempted homicide under the color of authority, reckless endangerment under the color of authority, and then fine and imprison the daylights out of them. You know they would if it were you or I thinking we were defending ourselves.
Slap on the wrist and some counseling at best, mark my words! Let the riots of outrage begin yet again!
Now that's responsible gun ownership. I swear, the gun owning public is better versed in gun safety than the police are. NYC police hitting innocent bystanders and now this. And they want to take our guns away? Truly pathetic. It should have been a normal investigation, but because he was a cop, every cop has to go nuts and shoot everything in sight and hope they hit their target.
THE DOJ needs to investigate and bring charges. Hell some ten year olds know the difference between a Titan and a Toyota Tacoma. And five year olds know their colors. Blue and Grey.
The DOJ is the Department of Justice and they handle out of control Cops. 102 rounds hit that truck. And the cops could not tell the difference between an elderly Woman and her daughter and a Guy who looks and acts like LL COOL J on steroids.
LAPD is scary glad I don't live down there.
Can you say, "lawsuit"?
102 holes (and that's only the ones that hit the truck) thank goodness they weren't killed. I understand they have a tough job, but they should all be charged just like any other citizen that mistakenly shot a truck, tree, somebody's door, and two innocent people.
Rex what rock did you crawl out from under?
1st the truck had gone past the officers so they had time to see it
2nd The street has street lights
3rd the cops carry flashlights
4th the cops never identified themselves, they just started shooting
5th anyway you look at it cops are supposed to identify their target, identify themselves and make sure that the area behind the target is clear. Anyone of thosae bullets could have also struck someone in one of the houses
Everything you stated is complete BS. Pigs can not just shoot at someone or something that slightly resembles what or who they are after. Just think if these cops actually trained with their weapons. Over 100 shots at a slow moving vehicle and only 2 hit a person inside. I'm sure you would feel different if it were you in the vehicle.
These animals need to be in prison
You folks need to watch the video on web address below. This is typical LAPD actions, which they took over a year investigating the officers and tried to make it go away. If not for the victims father they would have swept it away. Problem is there should have been more than just 2 cops charged.
huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/kelly-thomas-beating-video_n_1499771.html
asph
No wonder you're against mandatory drug tests for welfare recipients.
(Your post @ #1.20)
Dorner got what he deserved, but this is BS. We'll never learn the names of those trigger-happy cops. People here know this happens more than is ever reported. And the LAPD wonders why they are the most despised PD in the country? The smiling lies they told during this investigation (the bogus reward, re-opening the original complaint, asking Dorner to surrender, the desk jobs for these Rambos) are breathtaking.
And they have YET to publicly apologize for this here in LA!
total agree Fishman. Like gang bangers doing a drive bye. I was a certified fiearms instructor and trained security guards and police officers. Big rule in gun safety , is knowing whats beyond your target. Alot of the majorty of cops i trained flinched from the gun when it was fire. No excuse. When you shoot a cop, they go all out to get you and kill you without any reagard for the publics safety. They should be fired and charged with indangerment to the public. They want to disarm us, because they know that they will not be the one's to have the same fire power as the public. our state is such a police run state and we still have high crime. Book em Dano!
I am sure it would have had a better outcome if the women would have stopped and followed directions of the police when the red lights came on in the patrol car
So if Dorner had not shot any police officers, and his manifesto did not mention killing law enforcement officers...do you think that truck would have been shot at? Would it had been taken as seriously and performed with extreme prejudice like it was?
The first rule of gun ownership and getting a permit to carry a weapon is KNOW YOUR TARGET. Let's say that eight officers had weapons with 10 shots per. That means that a couple of them had to reload and let fly again. Of course, it does not apply if they carried tommy guns besides. Cripes. And a series of bullets hit other targets besides that vehicle. Bloodlust. That's part of the problem with a pack mentality--bloodlust!!! You get a bunch together and they act like a freaking out of control mob. Dorner was not a small guy either. Those "officers" must have been blind in one eye & couldn't see out the other. Even if every paper carrier had a neon sign on his or her back, "I AM NOT A CROOK" one doubts whether a trigger-happy pack would see or believe it.
Shoot first. ask questions later! Now we know the mentality of these police, and should have any sane persons asking the question of what is in their guidelines that allows them to open fire on civiians, who are unarmed! I can't believe the women in the article that said we should support them, obviously it wasn't her family that had been shot!
It's certainly not very safe with police like these; blind, stupid, armed and under the protection of qualified immunity.
fishman,
Cops don't have to make sure that the area behind, to the side or in front is clear. They have qualified immunity and are not liable for any stray rounds they fire. Just ask the 8 people in NYC who were hit by stray police gunfire when the cops were shooting at 1 armed suspect. I'm not saying that the city couldn't be sued but the police individually are protected.
Read the Christopher Dorner Manifesto, it is on line in many places. Sociopaths love power and wealth most are inbred. They confuse greed with intelligence and the sheeple are told they can do noting about it. I used to have infinite undying love for my dear Homo Sapiens species. Now I think extinction is the best. I would volunteer to know for a fact I will be nothing for ever just as long as the blue brown shirt ZioNazi pig police scum, judge scum, politician scum, monetary system monopolizing, weapons dealing war profiteering ZioNazi scum die forever. They are the cancer of the Earth and I pray to every god and all nature that they do not infect the universe any further. Christopher Dorner is absolutely right.
I have never hear, seen, witnessed anything like the complete incompetence, lack of training, lack of discipline, lack of responsibility as the LAPD unbelievable actions in this shooting; the LAPD, needs to be abandoned and start all over with at least grammar school graduates!
The LAPD thinks they need complete an unquestioned support. What they need are psychological evaluations for any officer that is allowed to carry and use a firearm. Something is mis-managed in the philosophy of how to "protect and serve" at the LAPD, and has been for many years.
reading about this and then seeing how they burned the house to the ground to finally get Dorner makes me wonder how they knew he was in the house? and would they have cared if he wasn't? Doubt it.
Davey,
Who knows, maybe he's still alive.
Just another example of a police force out of control, over trained and under brained. They don't think or identify before they shoot and most importantly they stop at nothing to avenge their own meanwhile do nothing for the public paying their salaries. Obama is crying about having to lay off police if he doesn't get more money, what a joke they are already overstaffed, overpaid and definitely under watched. There needs to be an independant commission that oversees every police dept. in the nation. Let them be paid with the savings in reduction of the forces off their DEA division which seems to be the only thing they focus on anymore because it's easy money for them. The biggest waste in human history. Kind of funny all you heard about was the manhunt for him and now nothing about innocent people being shot by the dept. on their over reaction to one person holding an entire city hostage, give me a break, what would they do if they had a real crisis.
Let's see if I've got this right................
1- President Obama, Joe Biden, some "BILLIONAIRES" and MOST Democrats want to ban semi-auto firearms and high capacity magazines (clips) for LAW ABIDING CITIZENS.
2- This will leave Lawful and Honest Americans with "pea-shooters," single-shot rifles & handguns, bolt and lever action rifles, revolver handguns and shotguns.... NO MATCH FOR A CORRUPT GOV'T, POLICE STATE or a defeated US GOV'T "OWNED BY THE CHINESE."
3- Who do the Anti-Gun "FREAKS" think they are kidding?
Even if you don't own a gun... or don't want one... or will never use one... THINK VERY VERY SERIOUSLY before you support Anti-Gun Legislation of any kind. We may be looking at VERY DANGEROUS TIMES coming soon.
DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE WITHOUT PROTECTION FROM GANG CHAOS AND "TRIGGER HAPPY" ROGUE POLICEMEN?
I do find this interesting. We as civilians are told we must follow the law. I can't shoot someone because I think I'm in danger. I have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this person posed an immediate, lethal danger to me before I can use lethal force against him or her. If I fail to do this, no matter how sure I am that I did the right thing, I'm probably going to jail. As much as I appreciate what most LEO's do for our society, I have to agree with others that this is unacceptable. They acted irrationally with excessive, lethal force and people were injured because of it. This is criminal.
Absolute proof Dorner was right about the LAPD. This deserves FBI investigation and some serious firing and prison time for whoever was in command of such idiocy.
They sure had no intent in taking anyone alive. They were determined to kill, throwing any laws and protocols out the window. Irresposibly using deadly force. Spraying a neigborhood with bullets. Luckly, and surprisingly, nobody else got killed by those loonies.
Don't just sit back and watch people!
Please, please, please let it go to trial and let me get a "You've Got Jury Duty" notice in the mail.
I hope to God that that piece of crap Charlie Beck, or any of his *ickhead aides reads these comments. It just goes to show how much the LAPD is hated across the country and especially in LA. They wonder why people shot at them! They are the most ill trained, racist, POS anywhere. Hitler had nothing on these guys. shot em all!
go to LA may get You killed by LAPD cops . They have license to shoot !!!
I loved this woman's comment: Joanne Arnn. "Yes, it's unfortunate, thank goodness no one here was fatally injured, but it's not a very safe world."
She'd feel different if she had been the victim of police gunshot wounds!!! hey! T.S. ! it didn't happen to ME!
Really, f_uk these pigs. they should be in prison or be hanged!!!
And if one or both had been killed Joanne would most likely call that unfortunate as well.
As far as involving the DOJ, remember Holder the head of the DOJ is as crooked as the LA police if not more so.
I hope those women sue the hell out of those cowards. Absolutley scared @!$%#less was why they did it. Maybe the home owners will to. Funny how when they are flashing thier little badge around and people are following orders they are tough. Soon as somebody fights back their yellow streak shows up.
Just remember you were not there, any of you ever been in combat. Think how many bullets are fired there without a hit. I was with guys that either got nervous or excited and went through 2-3 clips in less than 5 minutes, then they cooled down. I'm not sticking up for these police officers, but they had to be super jumpy, this guy had killed an officer's daughter and boy friend just for revenge.
These cops were and are fricken idiots! I mean really....WTF??????? I pray criminal charges are filed against each and every one of those retards!
Obama's goal is to disarm all Americans because he promised the UN bozos that, one way or another, he will force America's compliance with Agenda 21.
He believes he currently has the necessary political muscle to enact unconstitutional confiscatory laws but needs to do so before the mid term elections.
The lapd has demonstrated their willingness to fire upon civilians for any reason if so ordered to, and even just for fun.
Consequently, they are exactly the types that Obama hopes to use for enforcement of anything he gets passed.
"Arnn said that Torrance Police Department contacted each household on the block to learn if anyone was injuries and offered to pay for any damage to their homes."
With what money?? Taxpayers money!!! That's what. If they are REALLY sorry for their outrageous and complete ROOKIE actions, then the the powers that be, should deduct the monies from the police officer's BLOATED salary's.......BUT we also already KNOW that is NEVER going to happen.
So TAXPAYERS, get ready for it to get STUCK to you again.
Nuff said....
To all you Monday morning quarterbacks and "ballistics experts", and assorted jerks who can't keep their police departments straight: there is plenty of blame to go around in this regrettable incident.
This is a classic instance of contagious shooting and that is the result of throwing together a task force of officers who had never worked together before. A proper, well trained SWAT team would never have behaved this way. In darkness, reflected muzzle flashes can look like someone shooting back, and the first shots by the police become an avalanche. One must wonder who the superior officer at the scene was and what he was doing when all these shots were fired.
Would any of the officers have fired at the neighborhood paper boy, riding by on his bicycle to deliver his papers? What is this business of two immigrant women delivering newspapers in pitch darkness from a pickup truck? Did they understand enough English to heed simple commands by the police? If not, then with all the sympathy in the world they or their contractee must bear some of the responsibility for what happened to them.
In a larger sense the society is to blame for professionalizing these jobs which our own young people used to do--like pumping gas, landscaping and yes...delivering newspapers.
btw: The ability to distinguish colors is massively degraded in darkness. Gray certainly can look like blue.
Having served as a Fed Leo and having experienced combat in Vietnam I am appalled by the action of these so called cops. If I was packing I would have returned fire and hit what I shot at. Just take a deep breath and aim a bit under the muzzle flash. Sounds like the Wounded Knee massacre where the only soldiers killed were by friendly fire as the Indians were unarmed. Bunch of Congressional medals handed out for killing innocent unarmed women and children. I am sure the police will find thier own not responsible as they were just doing their duty. Probably some nice in house promotions for all involved. Nungman would have had a different viewpoint if the newspaper delivering woman weren't immigrants.
And what red lights and orders to stop were given to the victims of pre-meditated, lying in wait cops? Maybe the cops who did all the shooting should be made to get in a pick-up truck and have immigrants fire 120 rounds into it before they are sent to prison for their stupidity and ignorance.
Sounds to me like you were in the horse Marines, Mlaki. And the Fashion Police. Are they federal?
I'd lay you dollars to pesos one of those women was working illegally. I feel just as sure the police issued some sort of challenge when the truck stopped. But rather than show their hands and exit the truck, they tried to drive away 'cause they didn't want to be hauled in by the "migra", have the truck seized and Removal proceedings started.
102 bullets to shoot and kill 2 women and they missed. The police are quick to shoot and then they can't shoot straight. As a boy I hunted rabbits with a shotgun and killed them on the run, 1 shot. Sometimes the police are the problem.
Nungman - No warning was issued. Several of the cops were "undercover".
Why was it dark when they were delivering papers? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME? Working people (obviously unlike you) like to be able to have the paper in time to read it before hand or at least take it to work with them. (Since you obviously haven't got the mental capacity to correlate the two, I'll continue). Assume the average person's workday starts at 9am. Also figure that some people also need to COMMUTE (that means drive to work). Generally it takes some time to commute, and is LA, the average is about 30 minutes. Giving the worker a few extra minutes to get to their car, drive, get out, walk to their office, figure about 50 minutes. This means that they would have to leave at 8:10am. Sunrise that time of year in California is 7:15am. Can Santa Claus deliver papers to all the subscribers in LA in 55 minutes? Yes! Can 2 women deliver papers to all the subscribers on their route in 55 minutes? No way in hell. This is also screwing over all the people who would like to read the paper with their cereal BEFORE going to work.
TL;DR (since I know you have trouble reading): If you're delivering papers, especially in the winter, and you want your patrons to have theirs at a decent hour, you have to at least start BEFORE sunrise.
Also- the truck was BRIGHT blue, even in the dark, just a hint of light (necessary for seeing anything at ALL) would show it's color. The truck they were looking for was DARK GREY. Oh, and if you're a cop and there's even a doubt that you don't have the right truck, what do you do?
A. Wait for confirmation.
B. Stop it and check the ID of the occupants.
C. Unleash Hell!!
We all know which you would pick. I pray you are not in a position where you get to make any decisions what-so-ever.
Right. Let's suspend all immigration enforcement because Mr. Kim Chee here likes to get his paper nice 'n early. What did people do about this before professionalization of newspaper delivery? Maybe the sun came up earlier in Southland back then. Or perhaps had a whole bunch of kids on it so few had to start out in the dead of night.
But then, the delivery contractor couldn't pay the Mexican wage.
Yes, even highly experienced police departments like NYPD have embarrassing incidents when undercovers are involved--sometimes results are tragic. If the undercover stays undercover as (s)he is supposed to he risks being taken for one of the criminals. If he breaks cover he becomes a target of the criminals to whom he may be in closest proximity.
I believe there was a challenge even though one officer already had been killed, presumably because he gave Dorner a chance to surrender. 102 shots is way too many, but then the police were not trying to kill Dorner, only stop the truck. In the end Dorner died by his own hand. What does it take to stop a truck that doesn't want to stop and whose occupant may be an armed psychopath determined to die rather than surrender?
Odd that hostility toward the police is one thing the extreme right and extreme left can agree on. Odd and frightening.
These officers have obviously been well trained in the "spray and pray" technique.
Don't be so hard on these pigs, the police officer in charge got on national TV and stated several times that law enforcement engage in the man hunt "performed flawlessly". The spray & pray technique is always used to hunt minorities, why not one of their own
I think some of them were firing two pistols from the hip, western style.
Crimmey, Don't these yahoos (yes frilling yahoos) ever go to a range let alone qualify with their weapon? "Spray and pray" Shesss! The way they were shooting, they need hand grenades and claymores.
Here's an idea. Those that can qualify with their weapons can keep their jobs.
I think LAPD followed the law of averages on this one. shoot at enough people and eventually you'll hit the right one.
Julie, we're talking about California. If they tried to fire someone for being incompetent with a gun they would be sued for discrimination. If this follows the usual trend in Ca. law enforcement these guys will be promoted.
Wow the gun free state worked real well. The average Joe with a concealed carry permit has better statistics with firearm safety then police officers. I'm suppose to count on these clowns playing GI Joe for my safety. Lets call this as it is. They look out for each other with complete disregard for those they are sworn to protect. This guy was dangerous but he had specific targets so it was not likely he was going after anybody and everybody. They were out of their mind paranoid because, well they were targets. If you were the target they would have handed you a whistle and wished you good luck.
Those cops are just plain YELLOW, period. Glad I didn't have any of thier type in my udt team in Korea, probably be dead now, jerks!
Josh, It couldn't have been said much better by Thomas Jefferson.
It's LA. And, a very rough world.
Vincit veritas.
Some people sould not be cops. Need to find another source of an income.
It's pretty obvious why Dorner wanted to be a part of this incompetence. Dorner would have been a poster boy for the LAPD if they would have given him a chance.
I just want to know who the complete moron is that ordered every officer to open fire on the paper boys.
So true...
Sued for damages, prison time, and public condemnation.
NBC4 has learned that eight LAPD officers were involved in the shootout. ??
Oh, they mean when the Police gauntletted 2 women in a truck and beyond a shadow of a doubt (102 facts to be exact) tried to murder them with extreme predjudice without identifying the threat?
Hey uhh, We here in the land of Laws have that written down;
It's Called Cospiracy to commit attempted murder... Reckless endangerment of the rest of the public, since bullets went into public homes. Anything less is Conspiracy to commit Obstruction of Justice.
Thank you for keeping the Law Transparent Criminals.
Con-972914
And these are trained professionals who know how to act under pressure.
More like idiots with guns! Nothing professional about this stop, and know how to act under pressure? Really? I am glad these two ladies are not dead, but how do you fire at least 102 rounds and not kill what you are shooting at! Hard to tell how many rounds did not hit the vehicle. These officers should have been fired on the spot and prosecuted, along with the chief being fired if he thinks they were following procedure.
These officers should out of the force. No question about it. They cannot sacrifice public safety in order to protect it. It just doesn't work that.
Rule number of firing gun, whether you are a cop or not, is never pull the trigger unless you are sure of your target. That 8 of them weren't, and fired 100+ rounds anyway, speaks very poorly of each and every one of them. And while their victims are appreciative of their poor marksmanship, that stands as yet another mark against them. Bullets in trees, for christ's sake. It's bad enough to shoot two people who aren't even close to matching the suspect's description, but to miss that badly endangers everyone in the area, not just their intended targets.
I'm not certain that each officer should be fired - I think a thorough investigation is warranted first. But clearly at least some of the officers involved should receive some harsh discipline.
As an Iraq veteran (two tours) I can relate to the fear and anxiety of not knowing what the occupant(s) of an approaching vehicle might be planning, but it is simply not acceptable (even in war, where the shooters could be charged with war crimes) to just open fire on a civilian vehicle because it 'matches the description' of the suspect's vehicle - which is a stretch, because it was not the same color, make, or model of truck.
I want to assume that these police officers are good people that just made a terrible error in judgment. Maybe some of them might be more suited to other jobs in the police force; maybe some are better suited for a different line of work? There may have been some of the officers present who tried their best to stop the other officers from firing?
It is fortunate that none of the shooting victims was killed and it sounds like they will eventually recover physically. I am sure the officers involved think about this every day and about how much worse their actions could have been - imagine if a child had been killed by a stray bullet?
I wish the very best for the shooting victims, but I also hope that the officers will receive a fair and just investigation with the punishment(s) commensurate with their actions.
Come on, do you know the difference between a ROYAL BLUE TOYOTA TACOMA, and a GRAY NISSAN TITAN?
I've seen some cases like that. Once the officers unloaded their clips, right before they were about to "clip-up" again, someone yelled "CEASE-FIRE!!!"
The shooting happened pretty early in the morning so I can forgive them for mistaking the color (Blue and Gray look pretty similar in low light), but how do you shoot at a vehicle without identifying the occupants?
I mean, you can assume it's Dorner and approach the vehicle guns drawn. But don't shoot until you know for sure.
@Scubasteve58001
That's why they issue them FLASHLIGHTS! How hard would it be to shine a flashlight on the truck and determine the color before opening fire? They don't seem to have much trouble shining them in people's faces!
So out of one hundred-plus rounds fired at the truck's occupants, they were only hit four times? It wasn't even him? OMG, get these guys off the streets. No wonder the crime rate is so high there. I don't care what their excuse is. That is just wrong. Apparently none are NRA members or they would know safe firearm handling. That is just infuriating.
"come on,do you know the difference between a ROYAL BLUE TOYOTA TACOMA and a GRAY NISSAN TITAN " YEAH I DO the TOYOTA TRUCK was built way better ,at least its axle didn't bust in half ,like the NISSAN TITAN !!! P.S. all these pigs should be FIRED !!!! by a FIRING SQUAD !!!
So if the truck WAS gray it would have been OK to open fire, OldDog?
I know someone in Phoenix with a gray Toyota Tacoma (I think it's a 2003 model year). This guy I know doesn't look any more like Dorner than these two Hispanic women did (he's White and in his 50's).
The "officers" involved in this shooting need to be charged with a crime because that is what this is.
Addressing the cops gun qualifications, I'm sure they were "qualified." Cops are required to go to the gun range to requalify I believe every year. This incident simply shows the difference between shooting paper targets in a non-threatening environment and being in an actual life-or-death situation (or thinking you are). It's quite different. And a good reason why armed teachers in schools, for example, is probably a bad idea.
NO MUSTANG They all need to be fired and sent to prison. I had years back gone after an intruder IN MY HOME. I grabbed my shotgun and when I racked a round the intruder turned and started to run. I could have shot him but it would have been in the back. I was told by the police if I had shot him in the back I would have been arrested and charged. No these cops fired at people that caused them no threat, it was all due to their paranoia (yellow bellied)
Justross, not many homes are bullet proof. just suppose one of those stray bullets went through a bedroom wall and killed somebody's sleeping child, or maybe two, or a parent!!! And they should get their jobs back? California does not have a monopoly on trigger happy cops. We have them in New York as well. The State police were on a manhunt a couple of years back. A fellow on a snowmobile was unlucky enough to be a target of a hail of bullets. They didn't know their target either. He wasn't as lucky as the gals delivering papers.
O.O WOW. I'm not sure what to say beyond WOW. 102 rounds in the truck alone. . . . WOW. I'm thinking Donner shot the wrong cops. im not sure why police shootings aren't as reported on as school shootings, after all while kids are supposed to be safe in school, we are supposed to be safe from cops. in Spokane WA the people killed by guns per capita is about nine times that of in new york, but if you didn't have cops shooting unarmed civies it would be reduced to only three times that of new york per capita (ie. two out of three people gunned down are by cops).
Cops who shoot unarmed civies should get automatic death-row. NO trial, NO questions, No appeal. take away civies ability to defend themselves and you should also take away cops ability to be defended for stupidity.
on that note, anyone in the department who defends them should be placed in the same predicament.
higher responsibility demands higher accountability.
As usual, crime scene photos and crime scene investigation tells the true tale, not what the cops say. The picture of the truck shows multiple bullet holes in the tailgate, sides back windows, etc. These guys probably hid behind bushes or vehicles, waited for the truck to pass and then came out shooting without aiming for a target, establishing any kind of procedures, etc.
These police officers should be charged with public endangerment.
Mistaken Identity? That would mean that they had attempted to identify the person first, which they didn't. They just opened fire on a truck that was similar to Dorner's before obtaining a visual on any of the occupants.
There was no justifiable mistake here.
Agreed. This was a case of officers wanting nothing more than a revenge killing of Dorner for his murders. Otherwise, why would they have opened fire in the first place without warning the occupants of the truck to stop?
Or a visual of the make, or a visual of the color.
Wasn't there talk about outlawing body armour?
Old ladies and paper girls won't stand a chance in LA.
All the complaints about the cops not knowing the difference between a gray Nissan and a blue Toyota and the difference between two women and a large man dressed in camo, it was a truck, wasn't it and there was someone in it, wasn't there? in LA they don't quibble over details.
"OMG, she's wearing a hoodie.. open fire!"
Dorner was fired for allegedly "lying." These officers shot first, asked questions later, nearly killing two elderly women and others residents of this area. Sure, police work is stressful which is why police are trained in how to behave under stress. I mean...that's the job. If you can't work in stressful conditions, get another job.
The real reason Dorner was fired, of course, was for breaking the code of silence, not for lying.
No, he got fired for lying. His trainer didn't give him a good performance report and he made up the story about her kicking a homeless man.
And you know this how, because you are part of LAPD "Blue Code of Silence?"
Yeah sure, because with incidents like this all of the time a cop kicking a homeless person sounds like so much of a lie....Where do they grow these people ?
What about the homeless man with mental problems that was beaten to death by police last year?
He begged them to stop.......swept under the rug. And, it was a cops son!
I wonder if they'd be so "understanding" if some of those hundred plus rounds had come through their walls and injured or killed them or a family member.
"....but it's not a very safe world."
Especially not when you've got panicking cops freaking out and spraying the neighborhood with gunfire.
denver:
Maybe suggests the carnage that could result from untrained cowboys opening fire. These officers, after all, are professional law enforcement, and they certainly can't be counted on to spare innocent bystanders.
These are the very sworn law enforcement professionals used to justify more gun control laws. Hell, it is obvious there wasn't much gun control that day.
It's a miracle the two women in the truck were not killed. Cops should get on their knees.
Cops should get on their knees and kiss the arses of every Los Angeleno, and then suck on their guns!
These officers of the law should be up on charges.
The only good cop is a dead cop in this case. How the Fu@! do you start rittling a truck with bullets because it's the color blue?
102 BULLET HOLES??? In a vehicle that wasn't a match, without getting anything close to a positive ID before shooting?! These PIGS should be prosecuted for ATTEMPTED MURDER! The LAPD has been at war with its own citizens for years, and they should rise up, show how to use that 2nd amendment, and put every last PIG DOWN! F-you LAPD, you deserve to die, you low-life predators! America should protect ourselves from PIGS by ANY MEANS NECESSARY!!!
And you know what is so sorry about this? If these "cops" were proficient in their duties, they would have been able to hit a target before expending 102 rounds and actually kill innocent people.
No, if they were proficient in their duties, they wouldn't have opened fire in the first place. They would have said, "Is that him? No, he's in a gray Nissan. That's a blue Toyota."
The behavior of the cops was inexcusable. It is that simple.
I usually support the police in alot of the news articles but I see absolutely no legal reason for their shooting. I know they were under alot of pressure and things were tense but they are supposed to be professionals and there was nothing professional about shooting at the truck the way they did.
BinA,
troll on brother.
They fired hundreds of rounds at a truck in the dark. They had no idea who was in it and what their intentions were. I understand they were probably scared, but as trained police officers, they should have held their fire until they confirmed the identity of the people in the truck or actually came under fire from the truck.
A Toyota Tacoma looks nothing like a Nissan Titan.
justross:
It looks like a simple case of "close enough", empty your magazine(s). These officers do things on a regular basis that if anyone else were to attempt, would be doing a very long stretch in San Quentin. It completely baffles me that this stuff actually goes on. Whatever happened to "Serve and Protect"? Law enforcement, or their Prosecutor shills, investigating these incidents is an insult, and a very real danger, to every tax-paying citizen.
Hell, these guys obvious want to live forever. They need another profession rather than anything todo with the profession of arms. Of course they should be free to look for one after getting released from jail.
Protect and serve my a$$. They really protected those ladies trying to make a living. Two more people that will never trust the cops again.
8 cops, 102 bullets, and they still didn't kill two ladies sitting still in a large vehicle. Most hit trees and a building. That's some great shooting right there.
tfnj:
That gives them a sterling "hit rate" of a little under 2%. Law enforcement? How about "Terror Squad"? They certainly wouldn't like the moniker, but if the shoe fits......
I'm not at all sure my chances would be enhanced during a 'home invasion' were I to call law enforcement. Would I rather have one bad guy shooting at me, or 8 cops shooting at God knows what?
They had to have yelled "cover me I'm reloading", how many times? I've heard of 1 or 2 panic shots, but 10 to 20 panic magazines?
Not necessarily. 102 rounds from 8 shooters is not quite 13 rounds each, or about 1 magazine.
@The Angry Guy
102 rounds hit the truck. That count doesn't include all the rounds that hit houses, trees, etc.
depends on what the coppers were shooting at them with, if it was their sidearms it would be three quarters of a mag, if it was an ar-15 it would be about half a mag. service issue glocks have 20+ round capacities,and ar-15's are thirty rnd capacities. you don't think the cops were using anything less than full capacity magazines do you
Fine! You call these idiots next time you're in trouble. Personally, I'll take my chances with the criminals myself! I'm betting I'll live longer than you!
The "Keystone Cops do LA" !!!!!
Lets see ... the cops blasted over 100 shots into a vehicle of the wrong make, wrong color, and containing two women instead of one man. Then they fired on a man (wrong man) who happened to be in the area. Then, when they cornered Dorner, they used a type of tear gas known for starting fires and "accidentally" burned down the cabin where he was hiding.
It doesn't justify what Dorner did, of course. Still it makes one wonder whether the ex-cop's accusations may have some validity. The cops seemed to be pretty anxious that he be killed rather than captured. ... "You have the right to remain silenced" Bang!
Exactly Tom! Add to that the fact that CNN aired footage from a reporter stuck on the scene of the cops yelling things like 'Burn that F@#$er to the ground!' and also an audio feed between the cops and the dispatch advising them that they were going to 'proceed with the burn,' when now they claim the fire wasn't intentionally set, and you've got yourself a more than reasonable probability that the corruption Dorner was talking about is quite real. I'm not condoning what he did, but I think his story was probably true. I also think the cops never had any intention of letting him live to ever see a trial. Dorner knew that too.
There needs to be an independent investigation on this whole thing, and those cops need to be in jail for attempted murder for opening fire without first identifying their target. That's the most basic rule of handling a gun.
I want trained professionals like these folks protecting the children in my school. Things don't always work out well when your stressed.
These aren't trained professionals, they are LAPD employees.
That department sounds like its full of trigger happy buffoons!
And I also think Dorner was assassinated, and had a "no capture" order on him. And I think the house was deliberately burned, to destroy any possible evidence he may have had that might implicate the corrupt. You can hear the cops in those taps screaming "burn it, burn it" like crazed psychos. I think they fired Dorner, because he was honest and wouldn't cover for them.
There is something rotten as hell here. My spider senses are tingling...
You know something, MoreJustice? This sounds worse than the KGB from the old days. It only took one of them to do the job, and they didn't make any mistakes, like shooting little old ladies carrying newspapers. That sure makes this country look great, doesn't it? You can be sure this incident will provide some terrific propaganda a couple of thousand miles to the left of California. Cheeez.
Chicago cops are incompetent, but nothing compared to LA. Maybe LA will finally take the #1 spot from Chicago in the most annual pay-outs to victims of police violence and abuse, Chicago has owned that title for almost each of the past 15 years now.
Lock up the 8 in a cabin and burn them to death - Problem solved, Next.
Next! How about a Meteor falling on you and burning you to death Rev? Amen, Praise the Lord, Pass the collection plate (to me) and Sistahs meet me at the Motel later heh heh heh!
Those 8 officers on 'PAID administrative leave' should have their salaries all going towards the two women they injured. A total loss of control and negligently discharging weapons. Unfortunately, these officers will get to keep their pay and the citizens of LA will lose more public money from the HUGE lawsuit these women will bring and win against the LAPD.
lump:
Let's not forget who gets to pay the huge settlements - the very people these law enforcement officers are shooting at. Justice is not only blind............
Those were not "negligent discharges," they were quite intentional. A negligent discharge occurs when a weapon is discharged without the intent to do so.
What happened was an attempted execution. All of the officers involved should be charged with attempted murder, because that's exactly what they had intended to do to Dorner. However, had Dorner been in the vehicle, and had he been killed, the event, as reported by the police, would have been much different. But because it was not Dorner, and because they didn't kill the occupants of the vehicle, there is no opportunity for them to cover up what happened - these officers believed they were ambushing a wanted suspect, did not intend to give the suspect an opportunity to surrender, and intended to execute him on the spot. The only thing "negligent" here is that they didn't first identify their target(s), because, in their haste to kill Dorner, they failed to follow their training.
But make no mistake, this was an ambush and an attempt to execute a citizen. If any other group of individuals had done the same, they'd all be charged with attempted murder. Wearing a badge should not immunize these officers from appropriate punishment under the law. If they are not charged, that will be indicative of a serious problem in the LAPD - they believe they're above the law. Sound familiar?
This just reinforces what I've been saying for years--when it comes to law enforcement it's a 'me against them' attitude and unfortunately the civilians are the ones they always take it out on! Hopefully with all the media attention they'll have to take care of THIS part of the country!!!
I am usually Pro Police. They have a very unappreciated job. Don't run from them & put your hands in your pocket. In this case, there is No Excuse. These officers should be investigated & Fired. Have to pay restitution & jail time in convicted.
Charge these individuals and try them in fornt of a jury with a special prosecutor assigned.
Maybe all you Monday morning quarterbacks that were not there and have no idea what really happend should join the force and show everyone how its done. I bet none of you would make through basic training.
Bet I'll it 3 out of 5 shots.
Shut the @!$%# up texas idiot, nobody pulled your chain.
tex:
I could do better than 2% with your head up my ass. By the way, the LAPD has explained at length "what really happend (sic)". You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
What if he's wearing the big brim texas hat?
tfnj:
I don't know him all that well.
Well, he's proud. We know that much.
You know, it finally occured to me what the big brim on that big hat is for. It's a depth stop, if you know what I mean.
Seriously "Texas"? My daughter can out shoot these buffoons, and she's 16. You sound like a LEO from the tone of your comment, and explains your defense of these idiots. In the military, you have to qualify with your weapon every 6 months. I can guarantee you that 2% accuracy would get you kicked out of a REAL force. Bunch of trigger happy boy scouts, at best.
Texasproud-1680492
You are a total IDIOT and must have an IQ of 50 or less to say something like that!!!
You do not make Texas proud, such a stupid comment.
Graham--He is a typical Texan though..
if I was a trained police officer sworn to uphold the law, and give my life if necessary I would not light up people like that.
This just points out that these cops were not there to serve or protect but to execute.
You get the police force you deserve.
I find it very disturbing that the type of behavior Donner was describing has been not only displayed here but taken to the next level. There is no excuse for this at all. To call it excessive is an understatement. When did we hire an execution dept? Get real. There is no intention of upholding the law in the actions reported. These hitmen should be arrested and put in jail. ...or should we expect another cover up and allow this to blossom into another Donner situation?
Well, as a retired law enforcement officer, just got 1 question. Why are these officers not charged with numerous felonies at this very moment. At least have had to turn in their badges and weapons while on INDEPENDANT investigation is conducted. Takes about 72 hours at maximum. Wonder why certain agencies are not trusted. This mentality comes from the top and is protected.
The comment from Tex comes from a place whose governor had more prisoner executions during his tenure than I believe any other governor in history. Texas is a" hang 'em high" state.
The way it looks from the media it's going to be covered up as the LAPD is controlling the investigation at some point some how. It's pissing me off & I don't even live down there. A bunch of frickin monkeys could shoot better than these assassins.
102 shots? A dozen might have been defensible, but 102 is beyond the pale. Let us thank God that these two women survived. I can not imagine the terror that they suffered. I do not support frivolous cival suits, but these women deserve compensation that is commiserate with life long trauma.
Support Your Local Police !!!!
As shocking as it may be, it seems that the Police are human and capable of making mistakes. Worse is that the Police make mistakes when they are under a lot of pressure. Why can't they be "PERFECT" like the average citizens that they have sworn to "serve and protect". Frankly I am shocked! People are perfect and don't make mistakes. Why can't the Police do the same?
that plea brought tears to my eyes. that really put the situation into perspective.
... however, are their jobs the same...
When a cook makes a mistake... she bakes another cake, scrambles another batch of eggs.
When a cop makes a mistake; someone goes to jail for a crime he didn't do, a wife and mother has to attend a funeral, move to an apartment, get a second or third job and tell her children that Daddy, brother,Grand Ma will not be coming home or to visit any more.
Yup... it "Totally" the same thing... Totally!
Especially you Rev Wright.... @$$wipe!!!!
See how I was able to click "Reply" on this post so that its clear who I'm answering?? You can do it too!!!