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Jane Rosenberg / Reuters, file
Gilberto Valle III, 28, is seen in this courtroom sketch with his attorney Julia Gatto (C) when he pleaded not guilty to criminal charges before Judge Henry Pitman (L) in the U.S. District Court in Manhattan, New York October 25, 2012.
The New York federal trial of accused "cannibal cop" Gilberto Valle due to start on Monday promises to highlight an online subculture where people trade violent sexual fantasies.
Sex crimes prosecutors, First Amendment defense attorneys and sexual behaviorists said they had never before heard of a suspected conspiracy to commit a violent sexual crime begun on a website for violent sexual fantasy role play.
"It's the perfect alibi," said former Manhattan sex crimes prosecutor Linda Fairstein, who is not involved in the Valle case, which is being prosecuted in Manhattan by the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York.
"A case of this magnitude, and of this nature, may make case law," Fairstein said.
Opening arguments were expected to begin Monday afternoon.
Valle has pleaded not guilty to conspiring with New Jersey mechanic Michael Van Hise to kidnap, cannibalize and kill a Manhattan woman.
Valle has said he was merely engaging in online fetish role play and never intended to commit a crime. Federal authorities contend he took real action outside the role play websites.
Investigators say Valle compiled an online dossier with the names and in some cases photos or physical descriptions of more than 100 women, and discussed targeting some of them for kidnap and murder.
They say he met one woman for brunch, improperly accessed a police database to get information on another, and engaged in surveillance of a third, a high school senior of whom Valle wrote to a fellow fetishist that "she is the most desirable piece of meat I've ever met."
Prosecutors have also said Valle searched online for homemade chloroform recipes so he could "knock out" a Manhattan woman and deliver her to Van Hise.
The pair also discussed "slow cooking" the woman to keep her alive as long as possible, prosecutors contend.
Defense attorneys for both men have said the goal of role-play is to make it as realistic as possible, enhancing the thrill.
"You draw on your real life to make it as real as possible, but it's fantasy," Van Hise's attorney Alice Fontier told a judge recently.
Sex crime investigators have been monitoring chat rooms and fetish websites for child molesters since the advent of the internet. But violent sex fantasy role playing sites present a new level of legal complexity.
"Everybody is concerned about individuals whose sex fantasies reflect a dangerous mindset," said Martin Klein, a sex therapist who has testified in state and federal sex crimes cases. "The problem is the people that are actually dangerous - their fantasies tend to look very, very similar to those of healthy people. On the Internet, the line between imagination and behavior has gotten really very thin."
Additional reporting by Elizabeth Dilts
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"The pair also discussed "slow cooking" the woman to keep her alive as long as possible, prosecutors contend."
Yup... I feel sick. Some people are seriously terrifying... it's disgusting.
The untold part of this story is the people who fantasize about being the ones tortured and eaten. That thin line is very scary.
I hope to god these two are locked up forever.
And it's just as thin to be prosecuting this fantasy stuff as a thought crime.
Wouldn't it be great if we could just make them disappear? Talking about something and committing to it as he did, stalking, taking pictures and running checks with police computers, is proof he was committed to playing out his fantasy. If nothing else he shared information he obtained illegally with someone that may have been or is a sexual deviant. I'd call that conspiring to commit a crime. If he had been casing a bank, taken pictures, investigated the people that worked there using police computers, drawn up diagrams and shared that information with others could he be charged with conspiring to rob the bank?
Once you keep a file of 100 women and start following three you are about to commit a crime. It is reasonable and prudent for society to consider you a threat and put you away for life. Fantasy role playing is just that. You don't keep files and follow people if you are simply fantasizing. Having said that, I wouldn't put it past judges to once again marginalize possible crimes against women and let this nut case go.
Get a rope!
Before the bleeding heart liberals set him free
Funny how they ran this right on the heels of the Tabasco story! Or maybe not...
Just sayin'
(personally I like Frank's better anyway)
I must be behind behind the curve, because I am just looking for a woman that cooks. But, seriously, folks... See me and Shecky Green in the Poconos.
I think these two are totally retarded. They should get death penalty.
Doesn't matter if it was "only" fantasy or not. Anyone sick enough to get excited at the thought of slow-cooking a woman is too sick to live in society. Lethal injection.
Frankly, I find most of these comments more disturbing than someone keeping files and pondering fetishes. Conspiracy means you have some evidence of a definite plan to commit a crime. Since that is absent here, all we have is the inferences of law enforcement, the media and hysterical readers. Salem witch trials anyone.
And this degenerate has a gun? And a badge?
YUP. New Yorks finest.
Bleeding heart liberal here and I support ending these 2 individuals. Idiot.
Brought to you by the same people who want more control.
I can't believe that this is what it takes for someone to become sexually aroused. This man, and the others participating in these chat rooms, have some very serious issues. Disgusted doesn't even begin to describe how I feel right now.
I doubt this is centrally about sex...anymore than rape is. It sounds like control and violence used as a stimulant to me. Power issues.
I bet it was a man who first promoted the pop-psychology that rape isn't about sex.
It is. It's about people who get sexually excited by humiliating, controlling, and hurting others. The key phrase is "sexually excited." Rape IS about sex. If it wasn't about sex but only power, they'd just make their victims eat 17 bowls of corn flakes until they puke—right?
Wanting to cook someone and eat them isn't about sex, but rape certainly is. If rape wasn't about sex, it wouldn't be women of childbearing age that get raped in the vast majority of cases. Victims would be evenly distributed among all women (or even all humans). "Rape is about power and not sex" is debunked pop psychology nonsense. Evolutionary psychology can demonstrate that rape is in its ultimate cause a deviant, desperate reproductive strategy triggered by specific psychological moduals.
What about the number of young boys raped by men? Its not always about sexual gratification. Like the above poster said - psychologically speaking its a power trip for most rapists.
Debunked by who, you?
And if rape was purely about about sex then there wouldn't be as many rapists who reportedly couldn't even get it up during the assault.
I usually get french toast, but hey.. to each his own
They talk about battered women and all this time I've been eating mine plain.
Lovely to see you stonepipe2, LOL the comment!
Well, I hate to break it to you folks, but our history is probably filled with all sorts of scoundrels who have had these kinds of monstrously attractions to the darker side of the human desires subconsciously that just couldn't be restrained. Actually, Chicago had at least one, known living at the Death Castle, called H.H.Holmes. Where it is estimated 26-200 victims were murdered,tortured, and killed in so many terrible way.Using lime bathes to help get rid of the bodies later. Some he torched in lined sealed rooms with flames and their bodies dropped far below for further work. Secret rooms, where other guests would never even know about. Done over years. He targeted young blond women. So I can promise you this guaranteed, men with deep dark twisted minds is not new. So there is a fine line indeed. Modern times can only help catch them better now. But we are just as brutal now as back then. We just don't have the same actual blood showing and life and death daily facing us.The modern world surrounds us now.Yet our natures have not changed.
We have the sports, where men throw themselves at each other, like football, hockey, basketball, wrestling, soccer.And people watch it on television.We encourage it starting young. Then the movies let us see the blood, violence, life and death that used to be seen in real life not too many generations ago on farms, in wars, in the struggle just to live in a wild land. We have internalized the battles of living. But the beast of man still lives within to be tamed. Each soul must learn. That is the rub.Society isn't improving very well as a species.The peaceful ones are being killed off in a culture that literally worships violence and death around the world.
All cultures reflect what they cherish in a variety of ways.But also what they struggle with. And those manifest themselves not just in how members behave, but in customs, arts, and the traditions they follow We are no different, as a melting pot of many. With our violent streak no less. I mean let's face it people, we do eat food with names that suggest we are a cannibal society without even blinking an eye. Eating up the elderly, men, women, royalty and right down to the babies among us. I mean if an alien race figured out our language, looked down and sent an secret agent to walk down our stores to see what food we ate, why what do you think they might guess we are eating objectively. How could they not fail to see a symbolism, and believe at some point, we must have eaten among our own.so, here are some of the countless dishes to give you an idea of the scope we relate people to our diet. Starting with our own beloved first President of the United States (let's hope no slaves were injured in the making of these dishes)
George Washington Pie,Uncle Ben,Kaiser Rolls, Granny Smith Pie, Suzette Crepes, General Tso's Chicken, O'Brian Potatoes, Reuben Sandwich Babe Ruth, Oh Henry, Dr Pepper, Shirley Temple, Bloody Mary, Charlotte Russe, Margarita,St Lucia Buns, Little Debbie treats, Victor Hugo Chops, Chicken ala King, Caesar's Mushroom, German Chocolate Cake. I guess we could offer them some Mars Bars and Orbit gum, but they might think we killed off all the life forms from there, and think it's a trap!
Of course we do give our children treats and candy like tiny arms,faces, eyes, mouths and other shapes. Probably doesn't help.Must be bad genetic material in the shallow end of the gene pool leaking through gets too much influence.
Oh wait, this has been going on for generations huh? Now where'd Washington say he kept that axe used on the cherry tree he cut down? Better keep one of those close, you think? For the role playing zombies that could show up hungry. Meanwhile, if we could just make sure not to confuse all these delicious foods with the real deal. It would be fun though to share with your children, some of the history of what you eat, and where it came from. Do make sure however, to buy from reliable sellers!
http://recipes.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_foods_named_after_people
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/haunted_places/4.html
GM First Lady.
Not only is this creepy but scary. Like the one sex therapist said "on the Internet, the line between imagination and behavior has gotten really very thin" is a true statement. I wonder though, given that Gilberto Valle had followed 3 women and had an online dossier of 100 women, if he would have gone through with his fantasy and made it a reality?
The counter argument is...hey, he followed 3 women and had an online dossier of 100 women and never did anything to any of them.
Yet...
The only thing they might get him on is misuse of police resources.
Actually, conspiracy to commit murder and racketeering are also possible charges. That would at least get them 10 to 20 years.
Sick fantasies usually lead to horrendous crimes by people who don't know Jesus or God and lack morality. Many people don't believe in God, but are quick to beleive in the Devil. Well, if you believe in one, you have to believe that the other exist. Demons are real, and they do possess people who leave themselves open to demonic suggestions. Just because you can't see them, doesn't mean they are not all around us. Like wireless transmissions of data that flood the air, trillions of times per second in the air around us, but we can't see it, until it gets to a host or device that will manifest the message. The Devil is powerless to manipulate your thoughts when your thoughts are pure, and good, and close to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Seriously Mr. Marvel?! Like there's never been any atrocities committed in the name of Christ! Jeez, even Christ himself murdered three people in the Infancy Gospels of Thomas!! But I guess that was one of the many chapters that didn't make the directors cut.
mr marvel. ever hear of the spanish inquisition?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition....
;-)
Sorry. Somebody had to say it.
Boston: The Infancy Gospels of Thomas is widely believed to be made up and a for profit book. The writer was not a Jew nor Christian by the religious references. It was also written nearly 300 years after the death of Jesus, making it very improbable that the writer knew much beyond anyone else about Christ.
All of the gospels were written long after Jesus was dead. And they were ALL made up for profit and still are to this day.
You'll change your mind when sin has become so bad that GOD says it is enough and time shall be no more and sets the world on fire. But it be too late then to repent, your destiny will have already been sealed.
You don't need to know god or jesus to know that slow cooking a woman is wrong.
I'd be willing to bet that Christians have killed a LOT more people in the name of Jesus that sexual cannibals have killed.
You know, I'd even be willing to bet that Christian missionaries to North and South America killed more Native American babies in the name of Jesus than sexual cannibals have killed.
Thousands of boys molested by priests world wide would disagree with you.
Dandy416
If they did, it would only indicate their confusion.
Anybody that commits a crime like pedo, is not a Christian. They are liars. Perhaps to themselves as well as to others, but they are not a Christian. The fact that they walk around in a Catholic frock makes them no more a Christian than me carrying soldering equipment makes me a welder. It's a simple fact of life.
It shouldn't surprise you that people lie. All the time. That includes Catholic priests. And those that are pedos deserve the death penalty.
It was written in the bible long ago this would happen.
Jesus teaches that "by their fruits you shall know them" in Matthew 7:15-23.
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing (meaning, they look safe), but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them (meaning, their actions will reveal their intentions). Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire (meaning, they will be punished). Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdon of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"
Describes pedo priests perfectly.
Their day is coming.
It was only fantasy. WOW. To slow cook any human as a fantasy. WOW. Seems like you have already crossed a line and it is time to seek professional help. It pains me to think what that poor women had to endure. Guilty by reason of Insanity Locked away forever for the protection of everyone!
Joe - Sorry, we don't do that anymore. Reagan closed all the mental hospitals remember? There was a time when we had a place to put psychopaths like this cop before they did something terrible. Now we put them on the street and wait till they actually do something terrible. THEN we lock them up.
As for this case; invasion of privacy and abuse of power are in the bag. But there could be reasonable doubt he was 'conspiring to kill'. Especially with his 'alibi'.
I've done roleplaying in my life. In my experience, all of us who were sane and rational drew a distinct line between IRL and online play. Of course, especially with 'erotic role play', some guys just HAVE to get to know you better...and they are the reason I stopped.
This is extemely real and rife in our culture. I've been poisoned twice by so called "friends" with "zombie" poisons meant to keep a victim submissive and disoriented. The only reason I still have my freedom is because I only injested the tiniest amount as I only sip my drink when in company of others. The first time, I didn't heal from the "sip" for 8 years, second time, 2 months. Trust no one.
Twice?
Man, you've gotta get a better class of friends...
Unfortuntely, my line of work sometimes attracts some pretty strange people. I feel sorry for the victims locked in dungeons. There must me hundreds if not thousands. This should really be looked into because there is almost nothing on the internet about the mysterious poisons they use.
cirnobyl, lots of injustice was perpetrated by those who "put people away" for their own good. a similar sort of thing happened to children of poor mothers in britan as last as the 1970's. children were taken away from their mothers and deported to austriailia and given to other parents/guardians. look up the movie "oranges and sunshine". each side of the equation has abuses associated with it. how we keep things in balance is a real problem, but the problem is not just black and white.
maridanne,
And how many political dissidents did the Soviets lock up in mental institutions? And the Soviets Union was not the only country to use such institutions as a means of dealing with political dissent, either.
The first amendment may protect the rights of this police man to discuss such fantasies with other sick characters on the internet. But at the point that either he or one of his contacts started to take overt action to carry out these fantasies, I think it falls under the heading of a criminal conspiracy.
But all facts of law aside, and with apologies to the framers of our Constitution, I'd feel a lot better if this guy was safely behind bars, and I'm sure the women of New York City would agree.
I hope the case can be made that an actual crime was committed, and one for which he can be put away for a long, long time.
An actual crime WAS committed....invasion of privacy; also abuse of power as a policeman. Beyond that, the prosecution is left with attempting to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, the intent to commit a crime. My best guess of the probable outcome is a plea-bargain that will include little or no actual jail time, but some pretty rigorous conditions that will result in the individuals involved facing a lifetime of, shall we say, "close observation." I know that is hardly satisfactory but, again, "intent" is the hardest thing to prove. Better to get the plea bargain that imposes rigorous conditions, than to lose the case altogether.
The US is slowly but surely becoming the sickest, most depraved society on earth. Where will it end?
jpoochoo,
"The US is slowly but surely becoming the sickest, most depraved society on earth. Where will it end?"
I think you have a good point there, but ancient Rome with its "games" was no doubt a close contender for that prize as well. Maybe we'll end up the same way they did.
@Mickey,
Point taken, and well said, sir!
When I think about how degraded this society has become in the last 60 or so years, it's just a shame.
We had all the potential necessary to be and stay the greatest nation in history, but we seemed to begin a slow downhill slide during and after the Vietnam war that's just been accelerating ever since.
I think the fact he was acting out pre-crime stuff, as if preparing, is very telling. Fantasy is fantasy as long as it stays in your head, and all the acting out happens there. Once you start acting out for real, its no longer fantasy.
Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable thinking this guy needs to be taken out of society for the safety of others. Fantasy is when you talk about sick stuff like this without making lists of real-life women and making plans to kidnap and kill them. Once you're emailing somebody about a list of victims, it's not fantasy: it's threat.
And he was a cop to boot.
Thank you very much, I will keep my arms.
The world is going nuts, and you are a nut not to be armed for this type of crap.
It's better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it.
Good morning VR-good to see you post, been a while hope all is well.
"Everybody is concerned about individuals whose sex fantasies reflect a dangerous mindset," said Martin Klein, a sex therapist who has testified in state and federal sex crimes cases. "The problem is the people that are actually dangerous - their fantasies tend to look very, very similar to those of healthy people. On the Internet, the line between imagination and behavior has gotten really very thin."
These are not healthy people
this is very sick and unfathomable that men in uniform would engage in something this unconscionable.
Sadly Doc this is Standard fare among cops these days.
Someone maybe needs to find a new line of work.
Is there any evidence of him actually doing this, or only of him talking about it?
Compiling notes, planning on cooking the one chick, looking up home made choloroform...
Looks like they were in the planning phase.
"The pair also discussed "slow cooking" the woman to keep her alive as long as possible, prosecutors contend."
Perhaps this gives new meaning to that old expression: "I could eat you alive!"
And, "She looks good enough to eat!"
Wow, weird. This is not normal. This isn't even close to normal. Keeping a dossier on a 100 women? Surveillance on at least one? Using a police database for information on another? This goes beyond fantasizing out loud. This is escalation towards action, and the police and courts know it or he wouldn't be there in the first place.
And let me tell you, if you're even remotely turned on by the idea of cooking someone or being cooked yourself, even if you are just "chatting" on the Internet, it is time for you to head to the psychiatrist's office, and fast.
Yup, I wish I could hit "agree" 100 more times.
Pass an Executive Order that makes THINKING or TALKING about the wrong thing a CRIME.
Lets fire up the old witch trials and bring back McCarthyism.
These guys had some pretty sick thoughts, in my opinion.
I have an idea how about when cops are caught talking about boiling and eating women we just boil them and feed them to their attack dogs.
Or we could wait for these sicko's to follow through on their crime and kill and eat a woman. Would you wait for it or take them out preemptively?
I don't care if the sick SOB's were just role-playing or not. They need to be locked up or killed.
It really is a shame what Cops have become these days, cannibals and thugs, tasering children and old ladies, kicking pregnant women. I remember back when there use to be good ones among them, now all you hear about is them eating people.
"now all you hear about is them eating people"...Excuse me, but in my sixty years, this is the first time I've ever read a story accusing a peace officer of cannibalism or of an intent thereof.
Fantasy or not, it is a written statement concerning a conspiracy to kidnap, rape, and then murder innocent women.
Damn ..how can you tell if that person across the room that's been checking you out ..just really wants to take you home to cook you up and eat you ....
I mean is there a certain look to watch out for ..and that stare with the licking of lips takes on a whole new meaning to me now
cripes
If they are drooling then I think you might have your answer! Anymore now days you can't trust anyone....for all you know, the blind date your bff set you up from her office might just have a desire to have you for Sunday dinner. Literally!