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Keith Bedford / Reuters
Tracy Martin (L) and Sybrina Fulton, the parents of Trayvon Martin, participate in a candle light vigil to mark the anniversary of the shooting death of their son in New York, February 26, 2013.
The father of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed black teenager shot to death in Florida last year, said Tuesday that the family will “never move on” and will fight to make sure his memory “won’t be tainted by this whole situation.”
On the anniversary of his son’s killing, Tracy Martin also said that lawmakers across the country must take a hard look at gun laws and who should get gun permits. He cited not just his son’s death but the elementary-school massacre in Newtown, Conn.
“Why would you need a semiautomatic weapon to be hunting? That’s senseless,” Tracy Martin said on MSNBC.
Trayvon Martin in an undated handout photo released by the Martin family.
George Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, is charged with second-degree murder in Martin’s death. Zimmerman, who is of white and Hispanic descent, has pleaded not guilty and says he shot Martin in self-defense after Martin attacked him.
The case ignited a debate over race and gun rights in the weeks after the shooting. It became a rallying point for activists protesting what they said was the targeting of an unarmed black youth because of his race.
Zimmerman’s trial is scheduled to begin June 10.
Various demonstrations and memorials took place Tuesday night to mark the first anniversary of Martin’s death.
MSNBC's Thomas Roberts talks to Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, parents of Trayvon Martin, and their attorneys Benjamin Crump and Darryl Parks.
Hundreds joined Martin’s parents for a candlelight vigil in New York City as part of what they called a “Million Hoodie March” — because Martin was wearing a hoodie the night he was killed.
"We are all Trayvon Martin," demonstrators chanted as they gathered in the city’s famed Union Square.
In the Orlando suburb of Sanford, Fla., where the incident occurred, a moment of silence was held at 7:15 p.m., the time Martin was killed.
The vigil there was organized by Geri Hepburn, a white parent whose son became politically active after the shooting became a focal point of the nation.
"I figure it's a lifelong thing," Hepburn told Reuters.
Tracy Martin said on MSNBC that “as parents of a slain child, we never move on. And we’ll do our best to keep it in the media and to keep people’s attention.”
He added: “We don’t expect Trayvon to be the top story every day. He’s definitely the top story in our life. We took a vow to make sure that his honor and his legacy won’t be tainted by this whole situation.”
Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, said that the family is holding up “fairly well” and relying on one another.
“It’s been a somber year, a sad year, a year I won’t soon forget,” said Tracy Martin.
Editor's note: George Zimmerman has sued NBCUniversal for defamation, and the company has strongly denied his allegations.
The Grio's Joy Reid and Lehigh University's Dr. James Peterson examine how the shooting of Trayvon Martin, one year ago today, not only jumpstarted the national conversation on racial profiling – but also on the nation's gun laws.
This story was originally published on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:38 PM EST
Leave a Comment:
"His honor and his legacy" thanks I needed that laugh. If by that statement it means that the rest of the little useless punks out there are going to be shot and eliminated from our gene pool then I am all for it.
Your comment reveal syour character; which is ugly, indeed!
I would prefer ONE THOUSAND troubled teens in our American society than any ONE heartless, and hateful adult such as yourself.
They are children, after all, with the prospect of finding their way; like almost all young people struggling to grow up.
You, however, have no such excuse!
The Trayvon Martins in America do not concern me in the least. They are just kids like my own kids, and my neighbors kids. Most of them will grow up just fine, with time and loving guidance.
The hateful citizens such as you, however, have already made your decisions about the type of adult you wish to be. And people such as you make me fear for our Country's future!
@Christopher-4047527,
Why don't you slit your throat and eliminated yourself from our gene pool?
Trayvon got EXACTLY what he had coming...period....wanna be a street thug??...pay the price...
trayvon was a thug, glad he is gone. negro @!$%#
are you serious??
This was nothing more than the liberal media (NBC) cough, cough, glorifying a trouble maker and pulling the racists card as always. Believe me, if someone told me they were going to kill me and smash my head onto the ground I would shoot you as well. Trayvon Martin got what he deserved...
I don't think either side is 100% innocent but Martin was a child. I'm willing to wager that both were under the influence of something and the end result is making us sober people sort out something that we can barely fathom. Martin can no longer speak for himself so Zimmerman needs to "man up" and tell what happened.
Trayvon wasn't a thug, remember he went by No_Limit_Ni@@a!
So the "No_Limit_Ni@@a!" as he called himself got to play catcher on
a shooting team and they publish his "Undated photo" ??
Pushing much bias here?
NBC is just trying to test the waters to see if they can continue to keep up the racism prior to trial. They want to know if the public is still convicting Zimmerman. Looks like its more 50/50.....now they know they got work to do. Expect more articles!
Bruteforce-2815572 .... What do you deserve? Some people are just too stupid to be allowed to live. If someone was stalking your child coming from the store...following and harassing him...don't you think he would have the right to protect himself if he could? Just by looking at your username shows your a neanderthal....dumb as a box of rocks, and twice as stupid.
Yeah, the po', innocent chal', who was suspended from school, unfairly of course, who went to the store to buy ingredients for do-it-yourself dope, then attacked a man who dared to question what he was doing, needs his "honor" preserved. It is safe to assume that if Zimmerman is aquitted we'll have another Watts on our hands... Racist? No, there are reasonable people of all races who will let the court decide what should be done, but the reasonable people won't be the ones looking for an opportunity to commit crimes of violence, using that event as an excuse.
kat315, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 5 of the Code of Honor.
Don't make racist remarks, please.
Gee Sally......no indifference here? Death threats are tolerated but racist comments arent?
Lee-3485824
@Christopher-4047527,
Why don't you slit your throat and eliminated yourself from our gene pool?
#1.2 - Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:09 PM EST
Trayvon was NOT a thug.
Lead Investigator Serino told the following to George about Trayvon Martin:
and
and
George Zimmerman account about the night of February 26, 2012 is full of lies.
gz said that Trayvon was pounding his head into the concrete and punching his face when gz shot him. The forensic evidence proves that this is NOT true---There was NONE of gz's blood or DNA on Trayvon's hands.
gz said that Trayvon was smothering gz by putting his hands on gz's mouth and nose. The forensic evidence proves this is NOT true---There was NONE of gz's DNA on Trayvon's hands.
gz PURSUED Trayvon with a loaded gun from one end of the neighborhood to the other first by car, then on foot.
gz had unfounded suspicions of Trayvon who was simply walking innocently home from the store. Trayvon was not what gz said he was......that is, Trayvon was NOT one of those "a$$holes who always get away" NOR was Trayvon a "fu@king punk"
In fact, Investigator Serino said he was a "mild mannered" kid with a bright future:
Click> Zimmerman's Gravity
The blood trails on the back of gz's head indicate that gz was on top.
If gz had been on the bottom, that blood would have been smeared.
Click> Sir Isaac and Witness 18 For The Prosecution
Witness 18 (the school teacher) saw the last moments of the struggle and observed the larger, heavier man on top when the shot was fired.
You can hear what she says at the following link:
Click> Witness 18, The Statement Of A Teacher
After Zimmerman shot Trayvon in the heart George says that he immediately got on top of Trayvon's body.
And so, Trayvon's body should have been at the location Zimmerman pointed out as being where he shot Trayvon because Trayvon was pounding his head---- NOT 30+ FEET AWAY!
This indicates George is lying.
Critical, linear thinking doesn't appear to be the strong suite of the Zimmie Zealots.
If witness 18 thinks it was the larger man then it could be the taller TM wearing the baggy clothes that was on top. If it was the heavier man, why did she not get a better look when she lifted TM and GZ up to determine who was heavier?
Still trying to be witty, and still failing, I see.
Why don't they show a picture of what he really looked like at the time of the shooting instead of a younger version of him?
And that would make him less dead at the hands of George Zimmerman how?
Plenty of pictures have been shown of Trayvon Martin just 2 weeks prior to his death. You probably should try to keep up on these things if you are going to comment. Just saying.
"Peckerwood and Hillbilly" are alright aren't they though hey Sally?
Hypocrites.
The kid was a trouble maker, a bad student and his parents werent such great parents. Lets call a spade a spade. The kid was not an asset to the community. He did not deserve to die but he should never have gone after the moron with the gun. The moron had a friggin gun and the kid decides to circle back and fight the guy? SCHMUCK
Alan,
Seems you have it backwards....why would an overweight older man chase after an obviously younger and more fit youth when he was told by the police to stay in his car?
Right you are. Two individuals plus two bad decisions equaled one very bad outcome and as long as the press, the family and their advisers keep playing the race card etc, no lessons will be learned and that is the real shame in all of this.
If Zimmerman had followed police orders and stayed in his car, Trayvon would be alive today. It's as simple as that, and I hope results in a minimum manslaughter conviction.
How do you know that Buffalo? Are you Nostradamus on who lives and who dies and who does what in their life?
Can we just get this court stuff done so Zimmerman can be acquitted and the burning and looting can begin. You know it's coming!!!
There were no orders given by the police. They cannot order him to stay. They have no authority to do that. They can suggest and that is all. Until a law is broken police cannot order you to do anything. Orders are something that have to be followed. You can argue that if Zimmerman wasn't out there none of this would have happened. The argument could be made that if Martin wasn't out there acting suspicious none of this would have happened.
If Trayvo had "moved on"...
Racist aholes alive and kicking while an innocent boy is dead.
Buffalo and expat, Zimmerman was never told to stay in his car, and he was on the phone with a civilian dispatcher, not the police.
Thanks, Interested Observer. Despite what is repeated ad nauseum in the media, Zimmerman was NOT told to stay in his car - he was told "you don't have to do that" by a civilian dispatcher.
Zimmerman clearly defended himself, though he made some bad choices up front playing macho man.
Time to 'move on' and stop using this as a media sensation to further the libs agendas.
Zimmerman was told "we don't need you to do that"... we is the police the dispatcher was speaking on behalf of the police.
And Martin wasn't acting suspicious at all he was talking on the phone to his girlfriend while walking back home from the store. Zimmerman profiled him.
culheath, even the Sanford police have said that the dispatcher was a civilian, not a police officer and his suggestions were not the equivalent of a police order. And how do you know that Martin didn't appear suspicious? Someone walking along, looking like he's talking to himself and checking out all the houses, might very well be suspicious in a neighborhood with a burglary problem.
expatinAsia
Buffaloe51
the US is not Nazi Germany, Police do not have the power to order anyone to do anything ever.
Zimmerman was already outside his car when a phone operator, not the Police, told him 'we don't need you to do that'.... Z said 'OK' and started walking back
then Trayvon (a 6 foot football player who looked much larger and older than the 12 year old in the BS photo in this story): jumped Zimmerman, broke his nose, straddled him, bashed his head into concrete at least two times, and ground and pounded him while he was screaming for help.
you guys want to paint Trayvon as a 12 year old honor student from that picture.... he wasn't... he bragged on Twitter about giving a bus driver a beatdown and about mistreating girls.... he was suspended multiple times.... was caught with a screwdriver and jewelry he didn't own in school, was also caught with a pot baggie....
he was a 6 foot guy who didn't like that a neighborhood watch volunteer had the nerve to follow him, which is legal, so he decided to give Z a felony beatdown...
Trayvon caused this... all he had to do was keep walking away... he didn't
so far I see no evidence proving tha zimmerman was not defending himself. He had just as much right to be there as anyone, he has a right to shoot someone who is attacking him. As for his father the people who support the bill of rights do just that. The second admendment has nothing to do with hunting or sport shooting. If you oppose the second admendment then call a constitutional convection and delete it, if you can if you can`t then then respect it or leave the country.
The only evidence we have that Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman first is from Zimmerman.
Read the damn reports.
Ashley- When you are knocked to the ground having your head beaten into the concrete what is your force equalizer?
Ashley is a moron... A dirtbag that claims to know what a man is. I don't tell you what a women is. Don't tell me why you think guns should be banned..
Screw you MSNBC. Seriously, you are biased and rediculous. For one thing, an "Assault" weapon wasn't used in the case. The 2nd AMENDMENT is NOT about hunting. Obviously you guys have heads up each others rectums. You are race baiting, "Unarmed Black Teenager".. Of course Zimmerman is a "White Latino" you sick donkeys (democrats)
You have nothing about self-defense. I proper line would be "Trayvon Martin, an unarmed teenager who was shot and killed by an alleged gunman who is claiming self defense" Something of the sort would be fine and unbiased. Your station neglects nearly all stories of people who use guns for self-defense against criminals. Every story is about some criminal shooting some unarmed innocent victim. Except in this story you are claiming the victim was the innocent one. Your outfit just tries to warp and put lies into the minds of your readers. Your propaganda is absolutely disgusting! You hardly ever speak of Zimmerman's defense and the evidence that he was in danger and he was being beaten by Trayvon. However, you also missed the point where Trayvon was probably influenced by drugs. However, I know how sympathetic to addicts you guys at MSNBC are. You guys played on the edited misinformation provided by the CBS media trying to state that he was shot due to race. Your investigative journalism is pathetic! You forgot to mention that the gated community was plagued with burglaries and they put together a neighborhood watch to protect the community!
Not too mention you gave up on Sandy Victims after the disgusting photo op by the president and you totally did nothing regarding investigating Benghazi (The president being aware of the battle on our consulate and doing nothing, but flying over to Vegas for a fundraising event). Or the green energy failures (Billions of dollars lost and mia). Or fast and furious (The President's illegal sale of fully automatic guns to Mexican drug dealers that have been part of the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Mexicans). You have no credibility with the intelligent American people. Other than the people that are not well informed. You put no responsibility on the President on the lack of creating jobs, the unemployment rate. You rolled with the lies on the actual cost of Obamacare. You rolled with the fact that Unions don't have to participate and Government entities don't have to participate. All you do is blame republicans because they don't want to write a blank check to the governement. Go figure republican states are fiscally better off than bankrupt liberal states. Then when workers go look for a job in another state, they become residents and begin the process of ruining other states. All because of the liberal mindset of entitlement!
@ expatinAsia, Buffaloe51, culheath, Ashley-69,
Why do you folks feel the need to tell lies in order to get your own point oif view across?
Zimmerman was not "ordered" or "told" by police not to follow Trayvon- a dispatch operator told him that they did not need him to do that. There's a huge difference between being ordered not to do something and being told your help isn't needed.
The dispatcher was not speaking "on behalf of the police" as culheath claims. Police Departments generally have spokesmen who speak to the media on their behalf but nobody can speak "on their behalf" when attempting to instruct a citizen to do anything- not only does a dispatcher lack any authority but the Police Department does not have the authority to delegate their authority to civilians.
No matter how you guys want to spin it so that YOU believe it, George Zimmerman was driving, then walking in his own neighborhood. He was in a place where he as a homeowner had every right to be. He observed a non-resident and became suspicious because of an ongoing problem with break-ins in his gated community. Unfortunately a tragedy occured and hopefully the story will be sorted out to the satisfaction of our legal system which is all that can happen, whichever way it goes.
You people posting lies as facts only removes any credibility with the people that you are trying to sway to your own point of view. If you even bothered to type a few more words such as " I think" or "I believe" then your comments might have some impact.
When I immediately see and recognize blatant lies right off the bat then I form my own point of view of you guys- I believe you're all liars with an agenda. But that's just MY opinion.
Humilis humilibus/ Inflectens Arrogantibus
@ cmdr... I know it is so frustrating and disheartening that our differences and our values will be pushed so far that it is going to start a civil war.
Obama's grand plan I am sure!
To all you racist rednecks, it's this simple. If Zimmerman had stayed in his car and not stalked Trayvon, Trayvon would still be alive. That may be too simple for you ignorant idiots to understand, but I don't dare present a counter to "Zimmerman had as much of a right to be there as Trayvon" which is absolute nonsense. Trayvon didn't hunt Zimmerman down, Zimmerman, the big tough guy with the gun, hunted down Trayvon, looking for an altercation.
Why would they want to move on, knowing if they did, the money would stop coming in?
alan-2014309
I hope that was an unfortunate choice of words? If not, you should be doubly ashamed. First for your hateful spirit, as evidenced by your words. And second for your racist ignorance.
It's never too late in life to find your humanity. I suggest you start looking.
Glad he decided NOT to stay in the car, Travon would still be here and neighborhood would be unsafe
@ Buffaloe51,
Ok here we go folks.......
Someone has a point of view differing from Buffaloe51's so we're all rednecks.
Great, thanks Buffy. With rhetoric such as yours I'm sure that many more people will now be eager to here your opinions on all social issues.
You know Buffy, in another forum thought processes like yours might have somebody thinking that YOU are a redneck.
Think on it bud.
Liberals make it about race. Zimmerman confronted Trayvon and Trayvon went thug. It was his community and his job by the community to protect the community. If he jumped on a police officer and was shot it would be the same story. Just the cries would be of police brutality. So he was a thug. Read his background, not just his pretty teeny bopper outdated photo.
Well if your going to bite off more than you can chew TUFF SH_T, he needed a good azz kicking. You're going to act like KING KONG just because you have a gun thats plain ignorant, gee thats really brave I bet your the same, just a little girl without a gun. And if it was police officer he would have known that by the officers uniform so you're here trying to compare an Apple to an Orange.
He didn't pull out the gun until he was on the ground getting hit unintelligent fool.
I don't think that Trayvon was so much as thug as an average teenager. Didn't we all rebel, get into at least some kind of trouble, do something stupid? Please tell me that I was not the only one!
The problem here was just that, compounded by the false belief that most black youth seem to have- that being that acting like a thug is some kind of manifestation of manhood. The poor kid was probably just acting out for the benefit of the young lady that he had on the phone and picked the wrong guy to do it with.
Lack of respect for their elders is the problem. If the kid had just went home or spoken to Mr. Zimmerman as a teenager should speak with an adult this tragedy would've been avoided.
If what George Zimmerman claims happened actually did happen, then it is a unfortunate confirmation of my supposition. I used to live in Baltimore and used to see this all the time. The kid is scared and the only way that he can express himself is through stupid and violent reaction. There are alot of guys out there that that garbage just doesn't work with.
Having been confronted in this way myself, I don't have any problems believing Mr. Zimmerman- for now.Personally I hope that in the end justice prevails- period.
culheath
The only evidence we have that Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman first is from Zimmerman.
Read the damn reports.
----------------------------------------------------
I've read the entire discovery.... there's no direct evidence as to who actually threw the first punch... but circumstantially there is no reason to believe that Z attacked T.... why would he? ... he just called the police and he knew they would be there within a couple of minutes, he had said 'ok' to the operator saying 'we don't need you to do that' and he's got a solid explanation about timeframes and distances...
Most importantly: there is no way roly poly Z ran down football player T... if T didn't want an altercation, he simply needed to leave... he didn't.... so T was seeking a face to face conflict... the result of that conflict was clearly T committing felony aggravated battery....
no matter how many excuses you make up for T.... he was seen by a witness on top of a guy beating him down, breaking his nose, and bashing his head into the ground with a physicians and EMT corroboration.... and 10 times out of 10 in 50 states out of 50, that felony assault is grounds to use lethal force in defense
Obviously if Trayvon saw the gun, he wouldn't have picked a fight. Instead Trayvon decided to act like an ahole and start a fight. If Trayvon didn't think he was King Kong maybe he'd be here today.
LMFAO.. There are pictures of him roughed up! The shot was shown that he was shot from under Trayvon.
For those who keep pointing out that he was an unarmed teenager, Zimmerman did not know that. Which that isn't even the problem here. If the boy just walked straight home instead of confronting the man everything would be fine, but no he was on the phone with his girl and need to be the big man. How that work out for ya?
Since none of us were there, how can we say which one was right and which one was wrong. The truth hopefully will come out in spite of everyones opinions. And we all know about opinions, I do include mine in this too.
Biggest issue I have is that there are too many problems's with George Zimmerman's story, which cast doubt on his credibility. Not the least of which is the fact that his story has shifted over time on some important points. First he stated that he confronted Martin. Then Zimmerman’s claim was that he was no longer pursuing Trayvon and was followed back to his car and attacked from behind. Which doesn't explain why Martin's body was found 80 yards away from where Zimmermann's SUV was parked in a backyard lane where the vehicle could not have been driven.
If this happened to every 17 year old who decided to go to the store around 7 pm and buy some Skittles and a soda, there would be a lot of 17 year old kids shot dead. Martin may not have been a saint, but Zimmerman was stalking him after police told him to stay in his car and he killed the kid 100 feet away from his home. Audio examination of the screams for help on the 911 tape show that it wasn't Zimmerman, so who else could have been screaming for help seconds before the shots were fired?! The fact that Martin was killed so close to his home kind of points to someone who was trying to get away from someone else and make his way to his home and safety.
Does your brain have some kind of malfunction? Too much MSNBC and CNN? I mean FOX is full of it too, but your bias is over and again from the left.
You read the damn reports. More eye witnesses put Zimmerman at the bottom of that tussle than put Trayvon at the bottom of it. There reports also have photos that accompany them...with a man with a busted up nose and darkened eyes and a bloodied back of his head. That was Zimmerman. In the autopsy the only notbale injuries to Trayvon's body were his messed up knuckles...because he was beating up Zimmerman.
Based upon the tapes and the FULL transcripts it appears Zimmerman stopped following the kid and lost sight of him. He then somehow ended up on the bottom of the two in a tussle and getting beat up. Logic would show you, if you used it, that Trayvon confronted him for following him. That isn't even wrong...the wrong part is being hostile and beating him up.
And none of the evidence suggests racial profiling either. Zimmerman wasn't totally sure Trayvon was black...and never mentioned it until the dispatcher (a civilian with no police authority I might add) asked for a description. He said he thought he looked black. He wasn't definitive about it, nor did it seem important to him.
You hate guns. You hate permits to carry guns. You have an irrational fear of something no more likely to kill you than the flu virus. You hate "assault rifles" which are only responsible for 1.7% of murders and only 3.5% of homocides. You hate high capacity magazines. All of the things you hate have NO CORRELATION to murder rates and violent crime rates (they have dropped by 49% in the last 20 years while the numbers of the things you hate and fear have proliferated to historic highs). This case embodies to you your anti-gun BS. Stop transposing your anti-gun fear/hate onto this case.
The ONLY evidence we have that Trayvon DIDN'T assault Zimmerman are conspiracy theories that say Zimmerman either started a physical fight with the kid when the kid returned to confront him (unlikely), or that Zimmerman beat himself up.
THe evidence points to self defense...and at the very least there is plenty of reasonable doubt. In this country we are presumed innocent, and the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt we are guilty or we are set free. There is no way in hell there isn't reasonable doubt here. In fact, the prosecution knows they can't win this case based on te evidence. If it wasn't for the media drumming up the fickle, stupid, and violent mob into a racially-based fervor they wouldn't even have brought charges - BECAUSE THEY CAN'T WIN THE CASE. They only arrested him and brought charges to satisfy public pressure, even though it was based in ignorance. They are more than happy to stall this case for years in order to let things cool down, that way they can hopefully avoid riots when the inevitable "not guilty' comes from the jury.
You guys want so much for anyone who kills an umarmed person in self defense to go to prison. You have this myth in your head that an unarmed person can't beat you to death. Sometimes you have to shoot an unarmed person to save your own life. That's real life. If you can't face real life, too damn bad. I hope you never find yourself getting beat to death without a firearm to save your life. Because then you would realize how stupid your stances are.
Here's someone who learned that lesson the hard way:
dgeding
You obviously have a poor analytical mind, have you not seen the layout of the community? Zimmerman got out of his car and walked after Tray because the police (who talked directly to Zim) asked for him to keep an eye on him (obviously you must follow someone to do just that); but Zim lost sight of him behind the houses. Zim was also walking in the direction of his own house when Tray come up to him from behind, both behind the row at this point. What's so hard to understand? Oh I see, you can't understand any evidence because it all proves Zim's innocent.
If Trayvon had not been such and upstanding citizen and attacked a man, beating his face, while also having been in trouble at school for drugs, theft, being suspended etc.
Then none of this would have happened.
Everyone assumes that Martin confronted Zimmerman. The only word for this we have is Zimmerman's. The last call he made to police he stated he was safe in his car where police told him to stay. Martin's body was quite a distance from that car which points to the fact that Zimmerman stalked him down. Zimmerman was on some sort of testosterone rush exhilarated by the fact that he was also carrying a gun.
dgeding
Biggest issue I have is that there are too many problems's with George Zimmerman's story, which cast doubt on his credibility.....
----------------------------------------------------------
I didn't see that many problems.... but all of your points are immaterial....
- a witness saw T on top of Z ground and pounding him
- when Police played the cries for help, Ts father first said it definitely WASN'T Trayvon (until they got their lawyer, then he changed his mind).. and Z's father said it was definitely Z
- Z had head wounds and a broken nose, the only marks on T were on his knuckles
that is slam dunk aggravated assault.... and grounds to get shot....
if you get into anything physical with someone, and you gain the upper hand and are doing damage like that... it doesn't matter who started what or said what.... if it accelerates to a life or death thing....you are risking getting lawfully shot in self defense.... most people are so ignorant of the law they don't get it... like some people in this thread
TheKhanKubla
Everyone assumes that Martin confronted Zimmerman. The only word for this we have is Zimmerman's. The last call he made to police he stated he was safe in his car where police told him to stay
-------------------------
thats a lie.... Zimmerman was far away from his truck and wasn't obligated to do what the phone operator, not police, said anyway
people like you never read the evidence... never know what you are talking about... don't know the law...
you definitely don't know what you are talking about.... and you are a liar
This whole thing is a political spin job. Trevor Dooley walked across the street from his house into a playground where a guy was playing basketball with his 8 yr old daughter, confronted the guy because he stuck up for some skateboarders, tussled with him and then shot him. In broad daylight and in front of his little girl. He wasn't charged until after the Zimmerman incident and then he was only charged with manslaughter. He had NO injuries. Now Zimmerman is beaten and bloody, but he gets charged with murder. Trevor Dooley is black. Zimmerman is latino, but the MSM calls him "white" Please try to tell me this isn't a freaking racially motivated act of placation! Dooley has family in Jamaica, gets bail anyway. Zimmerman's bail is revoked. Dooley was found guilty. He is still out on bail until his APPEAL. Zimmerman is still in jail. If he isn't railroaded and is aquitted, as he should be, Sanford will burn. His parents saying that they will "never move on" is a threat. I remember the L.A. riots very well; I was one of the National Guardsman who had to deal with that ridiculous excuse for looting. Tell me I'm wrong.
A few problems, Kubla:
"The only word for this we have is Zimmerman's." -- No. The adult female allegedly on the phone with Martin told the State that Martin initiated the verbal confrontation.
"The last call he made to police he stated he was safe in his car where police told him to stay." -- No. He was on the phone with a civilian dispatcher, and he was never told to stay in the car.
"Martin's body was quite a distance from that car which points to the fact that Zimmerman stalked him down" -- Zimmerman was closer to his car than when he hung up with the dispatcher, which points tot he fact that Zimmerman was indeed returning to his car as he said. Martin had come back to confront him.
A lot of people believe Zimmerman's story that Martin circled around and attacked him from behind. So a question in logic - Does it make sense for Martin to stalk Zimmerman and attack him carrying a bag of Skittles and a bottle of iced tea? These items were found right next to his body? Wouldn't it make sense to set those items down where you were hiding? Or does it make more sense that Zimmerman confronted Martin while he was walking home and a confrontation broke out? If Zimmerman attacked Martin first, does that give Martin the right to defend himself? If Zimmerman, who started the fight finds himself losing, does that give him the right to pull out his gun and kill Martin? Does it make sense to anyone that someone carrying a gun might feel like some superhero and after being told by police to stay in his car might go out and take the law into his own hands? Zimmerman's story does not add up 100%. I want to know where all these people writing are coming up with witnesses who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman when I remember reading there were no witnesses to the actual fight, and just because someone is on top, doesn't mean they instigated the fight.
Full of mistakes:
1. Zimmerman was not stalking the kid, he followed him as per his neighborhood watch position. In fact, he could have been a non-neighbrohood watchman and still legally followed him. The street is public property and it isn't ilegal to follow someone a short distance as long as you don't try to restrain them. Look up stalking in a legal sense.
2. The police didin't tell him to saty in his car because he was already out of his car at the time the CIVILIAN dispatcher with NO POLICE AUTHORITY told him he didn't need to follow the kid (not for the kid's safety, but for Zimmeran's safety). The advice of the dispatcher had no legal weight at all, and doesn't equate to a police order or as "speaking on behalf of the police". So no order was refused, no police gave any advice, and never was Zimmerman told to stay in his car.
3. The audio examination is full of crap. That's the same "science" that said Te'o's imaginary internet "girlfriend" was a female voice on the tapes he handed over to the media. Turns out, it was a dude afterall. More eye witnesses put Trayvon on top of Zimmerman in the fight than put Trayvon on the bottom and Zimmerman on the top. Logic says it was Zimemerman screaming for help. The physical evidence backs this up, as Trayvon's only notable injuries in the autopsu wetre scrapes to his knuckles, and the injuries to Zimmerman were his nose busted up, his blackened eyes, and the back of his bloodied busted up head. It would stand to reason Zimmerman was on his back on the ground being beaten and screaming for help before having to resort to using lethal force.
4. The 911 tapes show Zimmerman did stop following the kid and lost site of him. The kid likely returned and confronted Zimmerman about following him, and then a tussle ensued. Whether or not Zimmerman started that tussle is unknown, but it stands to reason the confronting party (Trayvon) probablt started it, since the situation was diffused until he re-engaged. It also stands to reason Zimmerman was not firinf in hate, but in fear...because anger displays itself in many rounds being fired into the victim, whetreas fear often is just a few shots. Self defense deaths hardly ever have bodies full of bullets...usually just a few fatal shots are fied...just enough to stop the assailant.
5. Trayvon was not shot in his back, so the 'he was trying to get away" theory doesn't fit. Also, once again, te autopsy showed the only notable injury to Trayvon was his scuffed up knuckles...as if he were whooping someone's rear end. The physical injuries to Zimmerman were that of someone being whooped on.
Nice try, but your facts were all wrong. Turn off MSNBC, CNN, and FOX, and go look up the 911 audio IN FULL yourself, read the transcripts while you listen to it, and read the police reports and the autopsy reports while looking at pictures of Zimmerman's injuries and a map of the scene. The witness affidavits really tip the scales...they overwhelmingly side with Zimmerman's stortyt, puting him at the bottm of the fight getting beat up. There are a minority of witnesses who say anything else, and they unsurprisingly either changed their original stories, had worse vanatge points, or only came forward after major media coverage.
All of you defending Zimmerman are sickening. He shot an unarmed kid, period. He deserves to sit in prison for the rest of his life. His decisions lead to the murder of a 17 year old walking back to the house he was staying at.
Yes I have looked at the layout of the community they have maps all over the internet. You obviouosly have not. First the police did not ask Zimmermann to keep an eye on Martin. The only contact with any one associated with the police (the dispatcher) specifically asked Zimmermann if he was following Martin. When Zimmermann replied yes he was told that he did not need to do so.
From where Zimmerman told police he first spotted a suspicious person, to the backyard walkway where Trayvon died, does that even have any hiding places? Trayvon would have walked along the curved Twin Trees road that leads off Retreat View Circle, out in the open between the front-facing, connected townhouses on both sides of the street. He would have then veered onto a sidewalk that runs behind the houses to a straight lane leading to the home of his father’s girlfriend. Because the homes and back yards are connected, there are no alleys or places to hide, let alone to lay in wait. I'm uncertain how it is that Zimmermann lost sight of Martin.
I mean really perhaps you should at least take time to get the actual facts before deciding what "happened"
. Far from proving Zimmermann's innocence, all the evidence does is cast doubt on his story.
Love how MSNBC used a photo of him from when he was like ten years-old. Why didn't they put up the one where he was wearing a hoodie and flipping off the camera while making gang signs?
Martin was a little punk-thug and he got exactly the fight he was looking for that night. Unfortunately he didn't count on his victim having a gun.
Bye bye, future convict. Glad the taxpayers won't have to support you in prison for half your life.
And stop your whining, zannie, you sound pathetic.
Bull-freaking-$#!+ Zimmerman was in his car when he was on the phone with the (ok) dispatcher. He says so on the recording and on that recording he is told to remain in his car. So that means he was further away from his car than when he was on the phone with them. OMG - why should people listen to the dispatcher?!!! That is so freaking hilarious. Ya, don't listen to them, go out and be the judge, jury and executioner!!! A verbal confrontation, big deal - Martin was shot dead, for what? Words?! "Why are you following me you jerk?!!! BANG!!!
Zannie84
All of you defending Zimmerman are sickening. He shot an unarmed kid, period. He deserves to sit in prison for the rest of his life. His decisions lead to the murder of a 17 year old walking back to the house he was staying at.
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Zannie, you ever had a 6 foot football player on top of you bashing your head in?
If not, you have no idea what you are talking about....
I don't give a fxck if he was 3 years old... if an large adult sized person is crushing your head... and you are screaming for help.... and none is coming..... and after at least 30 seconds you finally resort to pulling a gun... you've done all you can do....
get somebody you know to beat you on the ground for 30 seconds.... one Mississippi.... two Mississippi....
you think about how long that is when you are taking two or three hits a second...
Trayvon simply needed to move away... but no he didn't, he bashed a guys head in... and he died because he was a bloodthirsty thug
First of all Trayvon had every right to be there. He was staying with his father. Second, the police told Zimmerman NOT to follow Trayvon. If anyone here took the time to read the police reports they would know that. Does anyone here know that Trayvon was talking to his girlfriend when this was going on? He said that Zimmerman was following him and he didn't know why.
How does anyone know who threw the first punch? There are no witnesses. Trayvon was found lying face down with his arms underneath of him. We know he didn't have a weapon. As far as the wound on Zimmerman's head; how did he get that falling on the grass? That's where Trayvon was found.
There are so many questions and Trayvon isn't here to tell his side of the story. One thing we know WITHOUT A DOUBT is that if Zimmerman would have minded his own business Trayvon would still be alive.
TheKhanKubla
Bull-freaking-$#!+ Zimmerman was in his car when he was on the phone
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if you are saying that, you didn't read the actual discovery and you are lying.... again
people think because they see a 6 year old pic of a little kid that he was this innocent little flower... he wasn't... he was a grown man that tried to beat a guy to death...
if Z didn't have a gun, he probably would have died from a couple more head bashes and this would have been another murder instead of a bunch of people pulling shxt out of their azzes thinking that TM was a choirboy...
guess what... people want to be predators in the world... they take the risk that they will pick on the wrong person... and Trayvon Martin found that out
oldman: then don't stalk someone with a gun. Then you don't have to worry about them attacking you. How stupid can you be? Trayvon was being stalked and was probably confronted by Zimmerman and had to defend his self. But since it is a black kid he is of course guilty. And as for smoking pot, if everyone who ever smoked it was a horrible person, most of the country are horrible people.
Some background concerning Martin and Zimmerman, physical stats and criminal records. These are this terrible acts of crimes committed by Martin and Zimmerman in their full glory. It is interesting to read which one of these two have a documented history of violence:
Trayvon Martin
Trayvon Benjamin Martin (February 5, 1995 – February 26, 2012) was the son of Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, who were divorced in 1999. He was a junior at Dr. Michael Krop High School and lived with his mother and older brother in Miami Gardens, Florida.[32][33][34]
On the day Martin was fatally shot, he and his father were visiting his father's fiancée and her son at her townhome in The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, a multi-ethnic gated community, where the shooting occurred.[35][36] Martin had visited his father's fiancée at Twin Lakes several times.[37][38]
Post mortem reports gave Martin's body length and weight as 5′11″– 6′0″ (1.80–1.83 m) and 158–160 lb (72–73 kg).[39][40] Statements from Martin's family indicated his height prior to death was 6′3″ (1.91 m) and weight no more than 150 lb (68 kg).[41]
Martin had been suspended from school at the time of his death, his third disciplinary suspension of the year.[42]One suspension was for tardiness. Another suspension for graffiti, when Martin was observed on a security camera in a restricted area of the school marking up a door with W.T.F. When he was later searched by a Miami-Dade School Police Department officer, looking for the graffiti marker, he found several pieces of women's jewelry in his backpack which Martin said was not his and a friend had given it to him. A screwdriver was also found, which was described by the school police investigator as a burglary tool. The jewelry was impounded and given to the police, but no evidence ever indicated that the jewelry was stolen. His third suspension involved a marijuana pipe, and an empty bag containing marijuana residue. Martin was not charged with any crime for any of the incidents and did not have a juvenile record.[43][44][45][46][47] Judge Nelson ruled that the defense may have access to Martin's records, including the details of these suspensions, as well as access to Martin's social media sites, but has not ruled on if they will be admissible as evidence during the trial.[48]
Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, said the parents had never heard about the bag of jewelry and it's completely irrelevant to what happened on February 26.[49] Martin's parents and their attorneys also said the defense's request for school records and social media was a "fishing expedition" aimed at attacking their son and an attempt to assassinate his character.[50]
George Zimmerman
George Michael Zimmerman was born on October 5, 1983, in Manassas, Virginia,[51] and is the son of Gladys (née Mesa) Zimmerman, who was born in Peru,[2] and Robert Zimmerman, Sr., a retired Virginia magistrate.[52][53]He grew up in a family that his father has described as "multiracial;" his father is white and his mother mostly latina with some black ancestry.[Note 1] Zimmerman's voter registration record lists him as Hispanic.[54][55]
Zimmerman's height is shown as 5′7″ (1.70 m); and his weight as 185 lb (84 kg) on his Seminole County Sheriff's Office Inmate Booking Information dated 4/11/2012, the date of his arrest.[56] Zimmerman's height is shown as 5′8″ (1.73 m); and his weight at 200 lb (91 kg) on the Sanford Police Department Offense Report for 2/26/2012, the night of the shooting.[57]
In 2009, Zimmerman had moved with his wife to The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, Florida, a multi-ethnic[58] gated community, where the shooting occurred.[35][36] At the time of the shooting, he was employed as an insurance underwriter and was in his final semester at Seminole State College for an associate degree in Criminal Justice.[59]In late 2011, he was refused an associate's degree. He had failed at least one class and had not accumulated enough credits to graduate.[60] In one of his interviews with police he stated his goal was to become a judge.[61]
In 2005, Zimmerman was charged with assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest, after shoving an officer while a friend of Zimmerman's was being questioned about underage drinking. The charges were reduced, then dropped when Zimmerman entered a pre-trial diversion program. Also in 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiance filed a restraining order against him, alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman requested a reciprocal restraining order. Both orders were granted.[62][63] The incidents were raised by prosecutors at Zimmerman's initial bond hearing. The judge described the incidents as "run of the mill" and "somewhat mild" and rejected the prosecution's claim that the incidents showed that Zimmerman was violent or a threat to the community.[2][64][65]
that is true he is the only one there that is still alive, Travon should be shot from the front, there should be powder burns on him if martin is telling the truth. remember the prosocution has to prove him guilty beyond a resonable doubt, Zimmerman has to prove nothing
Thanks Khan, it is amazing how many people apparently think Zimmerman is this much smaller man than Tryvon, and kinder too.
As I told Culheath, you are suffering under the myth an unarmed person cannot beat you to death, thereby justifying killing them in self defense. Wake up and smell reality. Review the evidence too (scuffled knuckles as an injury vs busted nose, blackened eyes, and a busted up bleeding back of the head; eyewitnesses overwhelmingly putting Zimmerman on the bottom end of a beat down, etc.).
No, he doesn't AT ALL.
He never says he's on foot or not on foot...he says he'll meet them at the mailboxes and that when they come into the area they'll see his truck. I was incorrect to say he was on foot WHEN THE CALL BEGAN...I misremembered that fact...in fact, he was in his truck, but never said that specifically, nor was he ever told to stay in his truck, nor would such an order matter in the least. Getting beaten up is hardly justified by exiting your vehicle in your neighborhood, on a public street. He had every legal right to get out and look for the kid, despite the advice of the dispatcher.
And I should have stated it was NOT a 911 call...it was a non-emergency line he called.
Zimmerman indeed was not in his car for the entire call, and indeed there was no one who ever told him to stay in his car:
So he was out of the vehicle and not told to stay in the car at all. And his story fits the physical evidence, witness statements, tape recordings, and other facts really well. You can delete the entire conversation between the men, and it still makes tons of sense. The alternate theory does not. You can see my mistake about being out of the car the entire duration of the call is rather irrelevant here, but I was nonetheless mistaken. But the facts you were wrong about were many and seriously important to your theory being plausible.
"Bull-freaking-$#!+ Zimmerman was in his car when he was on the phone with the (ok) dispatcher. He says so on the recording and on that recording he is told to remain in his car." -- He was only in the car for part of the conversation. You can clearly hear him exit the car before the dispatcher asks him if he is following Martin. When Zimmerman says yes, the dispatcher only says "we don't need you do that", which Zimmerman acknowledges and stops. It would be pretty stupid for the dispatcher to tell Zimmerman to "stay in the car" when he wasn't even IN the car. you really should actually listen to the evidence, not just spout of someone else's interpretation of it.
At the end of it all, Zimmerman's actions started the whole chain of events. He saw Trayvon and started stalking him. If he got beat up after that, well his actions lead to it. Trayvon was standing his ground from a man following him, as he told his girlfriend.
He described Martin at different points in the interviews as appearing "out of nowhere," "from the darkness," and as "jump[ing] out of the bushes."[197][199]Zimmerman said that Martin asked, "You got a ****ing problem, homie?" Zimmerman replied no, and then Martin said that he did now, and punched him.[202] As they struggled on the ground, Zimmerman on his back with Martin on top of him, Zimmerman yelled for help "probably 50 times." (See Background sounds of yelling for help in 9-1-1 calls) Martin told him to "Shut the **** up," as he hit him in the face and pounded his head on a concrete sidewalk.[199] When Zimmerman tried to move off the concrete, Martin saw his gun and said "You're going to die tonight mother****er!" Martin grabbed for the gun, but Zimmerman grabbed it first.
All of that kind of sounds like the script for a B movie, doesn't it? It's kind of laughable considering which person has a record of things like graffiti, carrying a marijuana pipe, an empty bag with pot residue and possible petty theft while the other has a record of attacking police officers and his wife. Zimmerman was only 3 or 4 inches shorter than Martin, 3 by the police records on the night of the killing and by that same record out-weighed Martin by some 50 pounds.
Here's a theory, Zimmerman confronts Martin, pulls out his gun and threatens Martin, yelling something like, "I'm going to kill you, you coon!" Zimmerman is on a recording using that term. Or he pushes Martin's buttons or may even have attacked Martin. We know he has a record of attacking an armed police officer, so why not - this time he is armed. Anyhow, either Zimmerman has his gun out and Martin is forced to defend himself or he attacks Martin and instead of fighting back, all he is concerned over is getting his gun and shooting Martin. That would explain why Zimmerman is so beaten up and Martin isn't. I don't give a crap who is Black and who is Hispanic/White, I am just going by what makes more sense. Zimmerman's story has changed so many times I can't understand who would believe him. An expert at voice analysis using a device that identifies voice patterns says the voice on the 9-1-1 tape is not Zimmerman's.
I am very good with voices myself and I listened to the 911 tapes, first of Zimmerman talking to the dispatcher and then to the voice of the person screaming for help in the background. Like the expert in voice analysis said in an article I read before, that is not Zimmerman's voice yelling for help. It sounds exactly like a young teenager's voice. I am not phased by the fact that Martin showed no signs of other injury other than to his knuckles because I know if I was in fear for my life against an armed opponent, I would be doing everything I could to beat that person senseless. The video is full of pro-Martin propaganda, I don't care about that stuff, if this was a pro-Zimmerman tape, it would be just the opposite propaganda. It's the voices on the tapes I am concerned with and like the professional in voice analysis said, that voice screaming for help is not Zimmerman's. Well, anyhow, listen to the tapesand decide if an expert using a device designed for analyzing voice patterns is correct.
youtube.com/watch?v=E8UMnsCJOzw
"Trayvon was standing his ground from a man following him, as he told his girlfriend." -- The adult female allegedly talking to Martin told the State that she was not his girlfriend. Also, Trayvon did not have the reasonable fear necessary for potentially deadly force to be used, so no, you can't argue he was standing his ground.
"has a record of attacking police officers and his wife" -- The "attack" on the police officer was a hand on the shoulder and no one has ever alleged that he attacked his wife.
"by that same record out-weighed Martin by some 50 pounds" -- Wrong. 185 - 158 is far less than 50.
"he has a record of attacking an armed police officer" -- Wrong. He put a hand on an undercover officer who may or may not have identified himself.
"An expert at voice analysis using a device that identifies voice patterns says the voice on the 9-1-1 tape is not Zimmerman's" -- Wrong. An analyst hired by a newspaper using data samples that did not even meet his own stated minimum criteria for reliable results said it was "unlikely" to be Zimmerman.
Do I need to continue dissecting your mass of lies and mistakes?
It's so interesting to me how many people take the word of a murderer/perjurer as if it came straight from the mouth of God. Zimmerman has lied and lied and lied, but how quickly that is forgotten. He got a scratch on his head. That does not add up to having his head beaten on the sidewalk. Anyone with common sense can see that. More than likely, he got popped in the nose (which he deserved for following a kid around because of some delusional fantasies in his head) and his head hit the sidewalk. That pissed him off and he killed the kid. All this baloney about him circling back makes zero sense. If you're running away from, and afraid of, your attacker, why in the world would you circle back on him? I'm afraid that racism is diluting any common sense about this. Zimmerman is the punk - plain and simple. And, I have faith that the truth will come out. Zimmerman is just too stupid to keep his lies straight.
Here's the thing, people can just look thing up on their computer. When I look things up, they say Zimmerman got mad at a police officer for arresting one of his friends for selling alcohol to a minor. He got profane with the police officer and shoved him. Then here you are saying, ah, poor Zimmy, he only put his hand on the officer's shoulder - it's laughable! According to police records, on the night of the shooting, Zimmerman's measurements were taken and he was 5'8" tall and 200 pounds - that is on record with the police. What is on his driver's license or some other document do not count every driver's license I've gotten, I've always provided my own measurements, no one takes them.
It's pretty hard to deny when this same analyst using the same technology positively identified another murderer on another 911 recording a year earlier and then states that this is not Zimmerman, not only that, but that it is a young adult screaming on the tape:
Though the term "biometric analysis" may sound futuristic, it basically just means using personal characteristics for identification. A fingerprint scanner is an example of a biometric device.
Much as the ridges of a human hand produce a fingerprint, each human voice has unique, distinguishable traits, Owen says. "They're all particular to the individual."
Another benefit of modern biometric analysis, Owen said, is it doesn't require an "in context" comparison. In other words, Owen didn't need a sample of Zimmerman screaming in order to compare his voice to the call.
The technology Owen used to analyze the Zimmerman tape has a wide range of applications, including national security and international policing, he said. A recently as January, Owen used the same technology to identify accused murderer Sheila Davalloo in a 911 call made almost a decade ago.
Owen testified that it was Davalloo, accused of stabbing another woman nine times in a condo in Shippan, Conn., who reported the killing to police from a pay phone in November 2002.
Davalloo was convicted, according to news reports.
Owen says the audio from Zimmerman's call is much better quality than the 911 call in the Davalloo case. Voice identification experts judge the quality based on a signal-to-noise ratio; in other words, comparing the usable audio in a clip to the environmental noises that make a match difficult.
And the call on which the screams are heard is better quality than is necessary, Owen says.
"In our world, that's the home run," he says.
Not all experts rely on biometrics. Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, is not a believer in the technology's use in courtroom settings.
He relies instead on audio enhancement and human analysis based on forensic experience. After listening closely to the 911 tape on which the screams are heard, Primeau also has a strong opinion.
"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming."
Since Trayvon felt threatened. WHY DIDN'T HE CALL 911?
Kahn,
Man, you keep making stuff up. You don't have to believe a word Zimmerman says. All it takes is Zimmerman's call to the police, coupled with the timeline and the autopsy reports to know that Trayvon must have started the confrontation.
Example, Zimmerman's call takes about 4.5 minutes. At around the 2 minute mark Zimmerman states that he has lost sight of Martin, after Martin takes off running. At the end of the call Zimmerman is hesitant to give his address because he is "doesn't know where this guy (Martin) is." So Martin has now been out of Zimmermans sight for at least 2 minutes.
About 2 minutes after Zimmerman hangs up, the first 911 call comes in about the fight (this is the tape where you can hear someone screaming "help" and the gunshot in the background).
That would mean for Zimmerman to have initiated the confrontation he would have had to, in 2 minutes, locate MArtin (who he had lost sight of), catch up with the (presumably) faster Martin (who had a 2 minute head start), engage him in a confrontation, and have that confrontation escalate to the level where bystanders called 911. Additionally, Zimmerman would have had to somehow attack Martin without causing any injuries.
That just doesn't seem logical.
Really, scuba steve? I'd say there is probably a good illustration of why you are neither a prosecutor or a law enforcement officer, lol.
I noticed you insulted me but you didn't refute any of my arguments or point out any inaccuracies.
Do you have any reasonable counter arguments or are we just at the name calling stage?
Kahn, sorry, the "experts" don't pass the smell test. I've already explained why for Owen, and note that the second "expert" just listened to the tape. Real experts--neutral ones, not ones hired by the Orlando Sentinel--agree that pitch is not a good indicator of age. So Primeau could not possibly reliable tell the age of the screamer from the pitch. The FBI has already come out and said that voice analysis will yield nothing reliable.
Your arguments have been refuted and proven wrong so many times that all that is necessary now is a one line reply pointing your your lack of credibility or expertise. Your entire post is inaccurate.
So which part of my arguments have been refuted?
The timeline which is taken from the various phone call transcripts released by the police? Or the autopsy report released by the police stating that Trayvon had no injuries (other than the gunshot and a scrape on his knuckle)?
What part of all of them are you having difficulty understanding?
Just tell me one part of my post that is inaccurate.
As I said, it's all inaccurate. Chose any part you want...that part will be inaccurate. I guess you don't grasp the concept of "all".
Accurate. Right out of the police transcript.
It would seem that you don't understand the concept of "All".
That is just a quote from Zimmerman. Add it to all the other inaccuracies that the forensic evidence shows in what Zimmerman had to say.
I didn't read through all the posts, because I am in a hurry, but I did read one that brought up the "Coon" alegation. This was a flipping misedit by CBS. When they removed the static it was clearly saying it's cold. The liberal media like MSNBC, out for the next race war, played on this. The press should be held to a standard and deceit should be punishable by charges of slander and being unethical.
LOL...
Really? Well georgie says he said "goon", so how the heck does "cold" enter into the picture?
Zimbots really are clueless...
The "oo" sound as in "goon" or "coon" is clearly present in the recording......not the "long o" sound as in "cold".
Why do they still show the innocent child picture?
Really, did no one have a picture of the young MAN?
Why? Because it suits their agenda.
Exactly my sarcastic point.
Why do they show the pudgy, unidentified, gun-coward-punk in a suit and tie, when he didn't have much of a job, requiring a suit & tie?
B/c it suits the racist gun-goober's agenda to legitimize the pudgy, unidentified, gun-coward-punk.
Suit and tie... courtroom atire...irrelevant point.
Tainted NBC News displaying same outdated childhood picture along with their slanted wording...more obvious propaganda. NOT irrelevant point.
For the same reason a lawyer would make you put one on.
My ex-wife tried that too.
Oh, she looked fine.
I showed up in blue jeans and a collared work shirt and won the kids, the house and the dog.
She got to keep her panties.
When you are right, it does not matter how you look.
My lawyer wanted me decked out too.
I told him no.
This is me, and I have the truth on my side.
Gimme a break C D...even the most disgusting, drug addled dealer wears a suit to "look good" for the court...You point is ignorant and sycophantic.
C_D_J, Zimmerman was indeed employed when this happened, and most financial institutions do require their male employees to wear suits and ties. So I'm not sure what your problem is with the picture...
its called propaganda
the Chinese did it.
Only his mug shot.
Would Zimmerman be alive today, if he had not been armed?
double post, sorry!
Why is his life more important than Trayvon's? He was the one that set the whole thing in motion. Or do you blame a kid for walking back from the store?
Trayvon Martin certainly would be.
@Viewer_Ready
Why, did they show the picture of an innocent, UNARMED child? Because the law considered him a CHILD, at Age 17, that's why. Were this YOUR son, you would hardly have considered him a MAN.
Those of you, who have no sympathy, for a CHILD, 17 yrs. on this earth, with limited knowledge about life, are out of line, to say "because it suits their agenda". You are in denial about the FACTS.
This CHILD was coming home, in the rain, with a hoodie on, to stay dry. He was walking where there were "overhangs" to keep from getting wet, and ALL he had in his hands, were a bag of Skittles and a can of soda. Terrible weapons, huh? A Semiautomatic bag of Skittles, and a can of Soda?
Those were no match, for a 9MM Glock, or whatever Zimmerman was carrying, at 28 yrs. old, twice the age of Trayvon Martin, and twice as worldly, after already having assaulted a Law Enforcement Officer, which his Father ( a Judge) had those records SEALED. Anyone, who has NO respect for Law Enforcement, has no respect for anyone else, and his actions reveal the real George Zimmerman, when he lied to the Court about his ability to post Bond. All the while knowing that he had a web page, that was bringing in money from racist contributors.
I hope he gets the sentence he deserves for taking the life of a CHILD, who had no interest in anything but getting back to the Condo where his Father was, to watch a Football game with his Dad. Is THAT a crime, punishable by losing your life? Wake up people. We don't get to choose what color or race we are sent to Earth wearing, he was a CHILD, not a MAN, and he never had a chance to show that HE was defending himself from a MAN, who was told "not to follow him" by Sanford Dispatch and he followed in defiance of those orders. Never forget the FACTS folks.
Wow docjt, how in the world do you know that???
It ain't rocket science, genuis.
I think that you don't know much about young men, until their mid-twenties, lots of them are running around looking for a place to die.
This happened in a gated community, and Zimmerman was on his civilian neighborhood watch. Martin was out scouting at 2am. Zimmerman was NEVER told not to follow him. He approached him as was his assignment as the neighborhood watch. He called the police and tailed Martin to establish what the hell he was doing out and about in a gated community at 2am. There are legitimate reasons for there to be gated communities with civilian watches. Just take a look at the FBI gang related crime stats. IF he was innocent of any wrong doing then this is an unfortunate incident. But,,,, I can tell you right now that Martin didn't break zimmermans nose after he was shot. So the claim that Martin attacked Zimmerman who was acting in his duties as assigned by his neighborhood assignment appears to be legitimate. If you look at his nose it appears as if Martin hit him so hard that it busted out the other side of his nose. That is NOT the punch of a child. That is the punch of a grown man from someone who was the size of a grown man. It is reasonable for Zimmerman to wonder what the hell this individual was doing at 2am in a gated community. That is why Zimmeerman was there to begin with.
All of this racist crap was started by that a-hole who worked for NBC that edited the sound tape from the 911 call to make appear as if Zimmerman was racially profiling Martin. You all do remember that don't you? After all the POS who did that was fired right after he was exposed for trying to bait a race war.
And can we please quit with the whole cherubic child pictures and show some real ones of how this young man really was? By the way most societies consider a child as coming of age by the age of 13. So yes, it is safe to call him a man.
No matter how you slice this issue, it is an unfortunate indication incident that we all need to move beyond rather than rehashing the racial baiting of some POS who worked for the lame stream media propaganda machine.
You must be prescient, docjt.
IWonder-932455
I think you don't know much of anything at all, and in particular the facts of this case.
IWonder-932455
According to Zimmerman's own admission and demonstration in the re-enactment footage, yes he would still be alive, and Trayvon Martin too, since he had gained wrist control over the teenager he outweighed by over 40 pounds. George admitted he had gained control of the teenager to the point where he had both his hands free while Trayvon was in a painful and dibilitating wrist lock rendering the pulling of the gun completely unnecessary and the shooting unreasonable. He had wrist control of an unarmed kid -he admitted it so no need for your unwarranted speculation. George said he had control of the kid.
To Thatsthewaylovegoes... Take a pop can full and unopened and beat someones face with it and see about unarmed. Walk the streets like a thug with a hood over your head as many gang members do and I will treat you as one in my neighborhood, rain or shine. After person reaches an age to distinguish right from wrong they should think about thier conduct. I have a 17 year old son and if he were out walking the streets at that time, in a hood covering his face I'd set him straight fast. That is nothing but looking for trouble.
I know of a fellow who was beaten by a seventeen year old young man to the point that he had to be institutionalized for the rest of his life. See doc, you just never can tell what someone else knows?
Um mrperrywine, was that before or after the shot?
Oh, and by the way,,,,, it is our second amendment right to have Semi automatic weapons with high capacity magazines. If Tracy Martin or anybody else wants to dispute this, they had better STFU until there is a constitutional amendment passed. Until that happens, DO NOT step on my rights. You might not like the results. My DIRECT ancestors fought with George Wahington and the continental army for those rights and my family has fought to defend this nation ever since. I am one person who will not just lay down and give over those rights to those who would usurp my freedom. But I do however believe in constitutional law and will abide by any amendment that is passed. Any other attempt to take my rights or hinder them in any way is unconstitutional and illegal and deserves to be treated as treason against the country, the flag, and constitution.
PERIOD!
There are laws that allow for the conviction and punishment for those who commit gun crimes. That is how it works.
No, he wasn't. According to Zimmerman, he was on his way to Target. That is the only way he can justify being armed, as Neighborhood Watch specifically states that volunteers are not to be armed. Either way, Zimmerman is cooked. Neighborhood Watch also states that volunteers are to observe and report, not chase from one side of the neighborhood to the other.
He was shot at 7:15 pm on a Sunday evening.
Yes, he was. Not only was he advised not to follow by the SPD dispatcher, the NW manual specifically states that volunteers are not to follow.
Nope. NW watch manual specifically states not to confront.
He acted like a cop wanna be, despite the fact that the SPD advised him not to. And again, it was 7:15 in the evening.
And Trayvon Martin had every right to be inside that gated community. And a civilian watch is not a civilian chase down and shoot.
What about them?
He was doing nothing wrong. He was walking home from the store, and was in an area he had every legal right to be in. No, it is not an unfortunate incident. It is second degree murder of an unarmed teen.
There is no evidence that Martin broke Zimmerman's nose at all. Zimmerman refused to have a doctor confirm or disconfirm whether his nose was broken.
We wasn't acting in the capacity of NW. And he had no "assigned duties".
Not according to the doctor or the EMTs, and not according to the photographs taken at the police station an hour after the incident.
It cannot even be proven that Trayvon Martin hit Georg Zimmerman. There was no blood, mucus, saliva, or any other DNA from George Zimmerman on Trayvon Martin's hands.
Not reasonable in the least since it was 7:15 in the evening.
Nope. All this racist crap was started by George Zimmerman, and the 28 pages of phone calls he made to the SPD profiling young Black men. George never called 911. He called the non-emergency line to the SPD. And there is sufficient evidence in George Zimmerman's own statements to police that he did, indeed, profile Trayvon Martin. There is also sufficient evidence of documented phone calls (28 pages of them, in fact) that George Zimmerman had a history of profiling young Black males.
Not this society. In this society, Trayvon Martin, at 3 weeks past his 17th birthday, was still a minor child in the eyes of society and the law.
It is not an unfortunate incident. It is an incident of 2nd degree murder. And we will all move on as soon as George Zimmerman waves bye-bye on his way to the state pen. Trial begins on June 10th. Time is running out for old Georgie.
Zannie:
I do not blame the young MAN for walking home from the store. I blame him for deciding to beat someone's head in. Similarly, I do not believe he used Skittles and iced tea as weapons. I believe he used his fists.
------------------
A lot of people who want to see Zimmerman lynched support showing pictures of Mr. Martin from back when he was ten as if that non-threatening image is what Zimmerman had to face. It is not. Mr. Martin was not a child in any meaningful sense. As for the "legal sense" that some people bring up, the law is not entirely consistent on the matter. It will say child or adult as suits its purposes at the moment.
Here are some facts.
Fists are weapons. People who keep harping on candy in his hand are deliberately laying down a red herring. No one has ever suggested (except the lynch mob in sarcasm) that Skittles and iced tea were used as weapons. People have suggested that Mr. Martin used his fists to beat Zimmerman's head in. I'm sure that Thewaylovegoes will agree (even if he won't admit it) that anyone who says "were a bag of Skittles and a can of [tea]. Terrible weapons, huh?" knows Zimmerman acted in self-defense and is trying to distract from the real threat by proposing a ridiculous one in place.
Dispatch never told Zimmerman not to follow Mr. Martin. They said he didn't need to. If they had given him any instruction, they would have opened themselves up to liability. Their verbiage was chosen specifically so that he could not claim to be following instructions. Whatever he did would not be at their behest. Some people lie and say he was given instructions that he was not.
Zimmerman never lied to any court. Some people make a false claim that he did. He had been behind bars with no access to information and so did not know how much money had been raised on his behalf. Anyone claiming Zimmerman lied is requiring psychic ability from him.
I realize that the lynch mob doesn't like facts and will instead give fake "facts" like saying Mr. Martin was a helpless child, that Zimmerman shot him in the back, and that Zimmerman unloaded a full gun into him. I have seen all these claims along the way. None of them are true.
IWonder-932455:
Stop being so prejudiced and speculative -because George Zimmerman is a young man too, and lots of them run around looking for an opportunity to shoot people; just as George has done. Others run around just trying to be vigilantes, just as George has done. There's evidence for it and no evidence Trayvon was trying to die.
Well, you should know as well that that comment has nothing to do with Trayvon Martin.
Um, according to Zimmerman's re-enactment video, he clearly said and demonstrated he had gained wrist control over Trayvon before he took the shot; in fact he said he gained control of the kid before freeing his hands up to pull the gun, carefully aim it, while moving his own hand out of the way so he wouldn't shoot it, and then with deliberation carefully took the kill shot to the kid's heart.
Zimmie said it -haven't you studied the issues and evidence in the case you're so vocal about? Watch the re-enactment.
Mr. Perryvine:
I believe that if Zimmerman had not fired, he would be dead. I am not interested in coerced "admissions" or "reenactments." Yeah, he was free to go to a cellmate that was going to beat him to a bloody pulp with the guards blessings or he could say what the police wanted to hear for the camera. Unless he was free to go home safely, I will take anything there as coerced.
" and no evidence Trayvon was trying to die."
I don't think Mr. Martin was trying to die. I think he thought Zimmerman was a pushover that he could beat to death. And if Zimmerman didn't have a gun, he would have been right.
Zimmerman started the whole thing, and he had been beat up because of those actions, he deserved it. Why is Zimmerman allowed the defense of standing his ground when he started the whole incident? Trayvon stood his ground from a man stalking him. And since Zimmerman is the one left alive from this, we have only his side of the story. There is common sense and that is missing from your argument.
And I have 2 teenagers this age, and yes they are kids.
Whoa mrperryvine, what makes you think that I am prejudiced against young men? So far as I know, all us men had to be young once, I know I did? Actually, I still feel kind of young? :) I still ride my bicycle and I love motorcycles.
Pvblivs:
Come on PVB; it's America, we're trying to have a trial here where the facts and not your beliefs are pertinent.
Fact is Zimmie admitted he had no need to shoot because he had control of the kid he outweighed by 40 pounds. Facts count not your beliefs.
Because you are not interested in justice or the truth. Nothing in that re-enactment was co-erced.
More groundless speculations. You need evidence.
Again, you're just saying what you wish to be true without any grounds or evidence for it.
Because you singled out the young men you claimed are looking to die while making no mention of the ones willing to make them dead.
WTF? Martin was shot at around 7 pm in the evening! People like you want so bad to exonerate Zimmermann and to paint Tryvon Martin as some criminal thug that you are apparently willing to make up lies to support you world view. Look I'll grant that had Martin been wandering about the neighborhood at 2am that would have been suspicious. But he wasn't! At least get you facts straight.
Because Travon's father was such a "good parent".....
Why do they keep calling this young man of 6'2" a child ? there are young men his age in the military fighting in Afghanistan.
I do not know whether Mr. Zimmerman had just cause to act as he did, but I do know he has not received a fair shake from the media, especially NBC whom I normally respect.
Martin - height, 5 foot, 11 inches tall. Zimmerman - height, 5 foot, 8 inches tall.
Zimmerman is 3 inches shorter according to the police report made on the night of the killing.
Martin - weight, 158-160 pounds. Zimmerman - weight, 200 pounds.
Zimmerman outweighs Martin by at least 40 pounds on the night of the shooting.
Zimmerman has a history of violence, including assaulting an armed police officer. Martin has no criminal record of violence - just graffiti, carrying a pot pipe and an empty bag with marijuana residue and possible petty theft which couldn't be proved. What if the only reason that Martin has no other wounds except for on his fists is because he was desperately defending himself from an armed opponent who's only concern was targeting his gun on an unarmed Martin? Zimmerman's description of the fight sounds like a badly written B-movie.
Zannie:
Zimmerman kept his distance up until Mr. Martin came up to him and started beating him. Zimmerman had been following Mr. Martin at a distance so that he could identify him to the police. I make no judgement on whether Zimmerman's suspicions were reasonable or not. If Mr. Martin had gone home, he would still be alive -- although the police might have knocked on his door. I am not satisfied that "Zimmerman started it." Mr. Martin clearly threw the first punch.
"And since Zimmerman is the one left alive from this, we have only his side of the story."
Incorrect. We also have the injury analysis. Mr. Martin sustained a single (but fatal) injury. And Zimmerman's head was very badly beaten in. Admittedly, that tends to corroborate Zimmerman's story. But if Zimmerman had started a fight, Mr. Martin would have other injuries.
Mr. Perryvine:
"Fact is Zimmie admitted he had no need to shoot because he had control of the kid he outweighed by 40 pounds. Facts count not your beliefs."
Was he free to go home at the time of this "admission"? I am not interested in what the police could coerce him into saying under threat of being beaten to a bloody pulp.
"Because you are not interested in justice or the truth. Nothing in that re-enactment was co-erced."
I am very interested in justice and truth. But coerced confessions lead to neither. I can see the lynch mob quite well. Unless you are prepared to tell me that he was free to go home and not to a jail cell, that was coerced.
"Again, you're just saying what you wish to be true without any grounds or evidence for it."
No, the whole propaganda routine that we have been given is evidence for it. Him having an ability to go home, rather than a jail cell with a cellmate given to go ahead to beat him senseless, would be evidence of non-coercion. But if he is not free to go home, the assumption of coercion stands first. And people here think he "deserves" to be beaten until he confesses. There is just no reason for me to believe that Zimmerman felt free either to keep quiet or to insist that he acted in self defense.
It is no secret that police officers have fed "suspects" the story they wanted to hear on a confession tape in advance. The only thing even remotely in question is whether that is what happened here. But if we are going to be honest about this, we can't just start with an assumption that the "confession" was voluntary. We have to look at the facts that we know. A special prosecutor was appointed because of the threat of riots if Zimmerman was not charged and convicted. The powers-that-be (and the media) want Zimmerman convicted. That's why we keep seeing pictures of Mr. Martin from back when he was ten. The police can use coercion with impunity. They just need to lie and say he spoke voluntarily. But there is no reason to think there is anything voluntary about it.
We also have the 911 tape where a voice is heard in the background screaming for help. An expert on voice analysis using a device that analyzes voice patterns has stated that the voice screaming for help is not Zimmerman's voice. So, who else's voice could it be? Maybe someone who was fighting desperately against an armed opponent to save their own life?
none of you were there so STFU.
That is just stupid Pvblivs, if Zimmerman hadn't stalked him, the whole thing would not have happen. You just cannot start in the middle of something and now say Trayvon started it by throwing a punch at a man following him. Zimmerman started the whole chain of events and he should be the one in the ground, not a young man walking back from the store.
And if this was my son, I would never get over either. No parent who loves their child would.
"People like you want so bad to exonerate Zimmermann and to paint [Mr.] Martin as some criminal thug that you are apparently willing to make up lies to support you world view."
I will grant that there have been embellishments. I haven't tracked what everyone has said. Indeed, I've mostly concentrated on what the people who want to hang Zimmerman have been saying. And they have been making up lies to promote the idea of Zimmerman as someone looking for an opportunity to gun someone down. The facts are that Zimmerman's injuries didn't come out of nowhere and that, had Mr. Martin thought he was being followed by a nutcase as some have suggested, he should have run home and called the police. He didn't do that. He decided to jump Zimmerman and start beating on him.
TheKhan:
"Martin has no criminal record of violence"
Technically, we don't know that. We only know what the school has reported. Any criminal case in which he was not tried as an adult would be sealed and we would have no way of knowing about it.
"What if the only reason that Martin has no other wounds except for on his fists is because he was desperately defending himself from an armed opponent who's only concern was targeting his gun on an unarmed Martin? Zimmerman's description of the fight sounds like a badly written B-movie."
No offense, but your conjecture sounds no better. Still, it is more interesting than what the lynch mob has been saying. If that's the case, then it's a pity that he didn't try running home instead. Two reasons. One, Zimmerman probably could not have gotten an accurate long range shot. Two, even if he did, a shot in the back would already rule out self defense. The actual shot we have could only come about if Mr. Martin was on top of Zimmerman -- figuratively, or (as I believe) literally.
But the biggest problem with the thought that Zimmerman was looking to shoot someone is the simple fact that Zimmerman had called the police to get them to show up and they could show up at any time. Mr. Martin may not have known that. But Zimmerman would be a fool to shoot other than in self dense knowing that the police could show up just in time to witness it. (I believe that Mr. Martin did know that Zimmerman had called the cops and did not want to be identified.)
TheKhan,
More than one article I read at the time listed Trayvon at 6'2", and in the surveillance photo of him in the store he looked like he was almost a foot taller than the male clerk.
But I will agree, how ever it turns out, it was a tragic event that cut a young mans life short.
And please stop blowing smoke, an eye witness said it was Zimmerman on the bottom yelling for help.
Zannie:
Attempting to beat someone to death is not a reasonable response to being followed. Following someone is legal (barring a court order to the contrary.) While I am not advocating Zimmerman's actions as being in good judgement, they cannot reasonably be considered starting a deadly confrontation.
"Zimmerman ... he should be the one in the ground,"
I have removed the repeated claim, which is in dispute, to highlight the judgement that you are making. You are saying that you want Zimmerman to be dead. Effectively, you just admitted that you think Zimmerman shot in self defense. I on the other hand, do not believe that either of them particularly "deserves to be dead." I just think that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. My preferred outcome would be Mr. Martin going home, Zimmerman identifying the address to the police, and the police deciding whether there was anything worth investigating. It seems your preferred outcome is that "snitches deserve to die." But I am sure you will clarify if you think I made a mistake on that.
I'll just touch on a few inaccuracies posted above:
"An expert on voice analysis using a device that analyzes voice patterns has stated that the voice screaming for help is not Zimmerman's voice." -- Inaccurate. An analyst hired by a newspaper used voice samples that do not meet his own stated minimum criteria for reliable results and said it was "unlikely" to be Zimmerman.
"he clearly said and demonstrated he had gained wrist control over Trayvon before he took the shot" -- Wrong. Grabbing at someone's hand is NOT "gaining wrist control".
"carefully aim it, while moving his own hand out of the way so he wouldn't shoot it, and then with deliberation carefully took the kill shot to the kid's heart." - Wrong. He never said the actions were that calm and deliberate. They were taken in the heat of a violent assault and most certainly were not like that.
"Neighborhood Watch specifically states that volunteers are not to be armed." -- Inaccurate. The national guidelines-- which are irrelevant to this case because Sanford was not a part of the national organization--only recommend that people on Active Patrol (a very specific thing) not carry weapons. The Sanford NW guidelines do not address weapons.
"Not only was he advised not to follow by the SPD dispatcher, the NW manual specifically states that volunteers are not to follow." -- Advising "we don't need you to do that" is not "don't follow him". And again, the Sanford NW guidelines never say not to follow anyone.
"He acted like a cop wanna be," -- For calling the cops? And following for 10 seconds, then stopping when advised that it wasn't necessary and waiting for the cops to show? How in the world is that "acting like a cop wanna be"?
"He was doing nothing wrong." -- Assaulting and beating a man and slamming his head into the concrete is wrong.
"no evidence that Martin broke Zimmerman's nose at all." -- Inaccurate. A PA diagnosed him with a broken nose. That doesn't mean it was definite, just likely, but that is still "some" evidence"
"Not according to the doctor or the EMTs, and not according to the photographs taken at the police station an hour after the incident." -- Inaccurate. As noted above, a PA diagnosed a broken nose and the photographs taken immediately after the incident back up the likelihood.
"It cannot even be proven that Trayvon Martin hit Georg Zimmerman. There was no blood, mucus, saliva, or any other DNA from George Zimmerman on Trayvon Martin's hands." -- Then who caused Zimmerman's injuries? Santa Claus. And as Martin's hands were not tested for DNA, and the results of one of the fingernail scrapings came back unreadable, the forensic testing cannot say whether or not Zimmerman's DNA was on Martin or not. (Didn't I explain all this to you once before, Fake Doc? I think I did).
"the 28 pages of phone calls he made to the SPD profiling young Black men." -- you may want to actually READ those pages because they were not all about "young Black men".
"Trayvon Martin, at 3 weeks past his 17th birthday, was still a minor child in the eyes of society and the law." -- Legally a minor, but physically an adult with an adult's strength. He was more than capable of beating Zimmerman to death with his bare hands.
Though the term "biometric analysis" may sound futuristic, it basically just means using personal characteristics for identification. A fingerprint scanner is an example of a biometric device.
Much as the ridges of a human hand produce a fingerprint, each human voice has unique, distinguishable traits, Owen says. "They're all particular to the individual."
Another benefit of modern biometric analysis, Owen said, is it doesn't require an "in context" comparison. In other words, Owen didn't need a sample of Zimmerman screaming in order to compare his voice to the call.
The technology Owen used to analyze the Zimmerman tape has a wide range of applications, including national security and international policing, he said. A recently as January, Owen used the same technology to identify accused murderer Sheila Davalloo in a 911 call made almost a decade ago.
Owen testified that it was Davalloo, accused of stabbing another woman nine times in a condo in Shippan, Conn., who reported the killing to police from a pay phone in November 2002.
Davalloo was convicted, according to news reports.
Owen says the audio from Zimmerman's call is much better quality than the 911 call in the Davalloo case. Voice identification experts judge the quality based on a signal-to-noise ratio; in other words, comparing the usable audio in a clip to the environmental noises that make a match difficult.
And the call on which the screams are heard is better quality than is necessary, Owen says.
"In our world, that's the home run," he says.
Not all experts rely on biometrics. Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, is not a believer in the technology's use in courtroom settings.
He relies instead on audio enhancement and human analysis based on forensic experience. After listening closely to the 911 tape on which the screams are heard, Primeau also has a strong opinion.
"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming."
Oh, by the way, my post above - that makes 2 experts using different methods stating that the voice screaming for help is not Zimmerman's voice, and even above my last post in the argument against my earlier post it is stated that the voice screaming for help is "unlikely" Zimmerman's voice. So I wonder who's voice can it be? Who's voice is it? The tooth fairy's?
Witnesses - it's a shame they can never keep their stories straight or agree with each other, isn't it? Makes it hard to believe what they saw. I remember a class where gunmen game in and began shooting up the place and then exited the room (with blanks of course, and ya, this isn't the normal sort of class most civilians take) and 30 different people in the room gave 30 different accounts as to what happened, how many shooters there were, how many shots were fired and what the shooters were wearing. So read your witnesses accounts of what happened and the changing of their stories and why they are no longer included as witnesses in this case:
One of the most important defense witnesses in the George Zimmerman murder case – the one who told police he saw Trayvon Martin straddling Zimmerman and "throwing down blows on the guy kinda MMA-style," was quietly brought to the Seminole County Courthouse Dec. 11 and deposed, according to new court paperwork.
The man, identified in court records only as "witness 6," was a neighbor who told authorities he heard and saw the fight.
By identifying the clothes they wore, he told police that Zimmerman was on the bottom, was being beat up and was crying for help.
Zimmerman is the 29-year-old Neighborhood Watch volunteer charged with second-degree murder. He killed Trayvon Feb. 26 in what he describes as an act of self-defense.
Prosecutors say Zimmerman is guilty of profiling Trayvon, of assuming he was about to commit a crime, of pursuing him and murdering him.
Witness 6 was re-interviewed a few weeks after the shooting by an FDLE agent and prosecution investigators, and he backtracked, saying he was not sure who was calling for help. He also said he was no longer sure if the person on top was throwing punches or just holding down the man on the bottom. Either way, he said, the man on the bottom was trying, without success, to get up.
He was still sure, he said, who was on the bottom: the man wearing red.
That was Zimmerman.
Witness 6 said the man on top had a darker complexion and was wearing a black or dark shirt.
Trayvon, an unarmed black 17-year-old from Miami Gardens, was wearing a dark gray hoodie.
The witness has now given at least five official statements about what he saw and heard that night. The most recent one is the just-disclosed deposition, when he was summoned by defense attorneys to the Seminole County criminal courthouse Dec. 11 and questioned by them with prosecutors present.
It's not clear what he said that time.
Also deposed Dec. 11 was "witness 17", the fiancée of witness 6 who was in the townhouse with him that evening, heard the fight between Trayvon and Zimmerman but did not see it, she told investigators in March.
She heard voices from people who sounded as if they were running and getting closer to her, she said. One was calling, "help," but she was not sure who it was.
What she told attorneys Dec. 11 is not clear.
Several neighbors heard or saw portions of the fight, according to prosecution records. Most said they could not make out who was on top. One witness initially told police she was not sure but several weeks later said that after seeing photos of Zimmerman on television was sure he was the one on top.
It's not clear why the depositions of witnesses 6 and 17 were taken Dec. 11 but the public "notice of taking depositions," something typically filed days or weeks before a deposition is taken to give everyone time to prepare, was not put in the public court file until yesterday.
It is at least the second time O'Mara has deposed witnesses in the high-profile case then filed notice that he would do so after they were completed.
Culheath are you serious? Just walking home. He was tresspassing inside a gated community after dark. As for the reports, did you see the photos that were taken and the doctor reports. Nobody was profiled race baiter. He was tresspassing. It's that simple.
No one commenting here knows for certain what happened. The jury will be the trier of fact, and we all should accept its judgment.
This was nothing more than the liberal media (NBC) cough, cough, glorifying a trouble maker and pulling the racists card as always. Believe me, if someone told me they were going to kill me and smash my head onto the ground I would shoot you as well. Trayvon Martin got what he deserved...
@Okicize - how was Martin supposed to get back to his father's home who owned a home in this same gated community if just walking through it made him a trespasser? Have Scotty beam him home?
@Bruteforce-numbers - How do we know Martin told that to Zimmerman. Zimmerman's account of events sounds like a B-movie script. What we know for certain is that Zimmerman had a gun and Martin is dead.
Okicize:
Stop. Mr. Martin was not trespassing. He had legitimate cause to be there as he was staying with his father and it was either his father or the girlfriend who lived there. Now, Zimmerman didn't know that he was there legitimately and called the police. But let's save the lying for the people who want Zimmerman lynched.
The analysis of the voice match/no-match would be more impressive if done "blind." That is -- the person should not know what answer they are looking for. An individual voice can sound different under different circumstances. So a stress scream is likely to give a no-match even when it is the same person. Did they test it against a recording of one of Mr. Martin's screams, or at least a voice sample? Someone wanting to lynch Zimmerman will say "an expert said 'unlikely' to be Zimmerman; who's left?" Well, Zimmerman is still left until you actually test against Martin's voice.
The world is a better place without their POS, gang-banger wannabe son. Zimmerman did exactly the right thing. He defended himself.
Some parents have a tough time accepting the fact that their child is no longer the angelic 10 y.o. (as pictured) but rather a grown thug. Still in all, he was their child and the reason they have a tough time getting past it is because they can't figure out where they went wrong as parents.
As long as there are bullies that want to attack others!
Some of you need to listen to the WHOLE 911 tape!!! Martin was the one on top of Zimmerman beating him...Zimmerman was the one calling for help!! WHen the 911 ppl told him to not follow him... he stopped... MArtin attacked him...
Dont be so blind! Stop calling it a race thing... it wasnt
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/the-missing-230-and-deedees-testimony
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer
AJ-1018729,
You have it soooooooo wrong! Zimmermurder called 911 and "if" he had stopped when told to, he wouldn't have been where he was when the shooting occurred. Time line will show gz continued to follow Trayvon, and witnesses show Trayvon tried to get away, which is why gz is going away...for a good long time!
PS. wagist is nothing more than a right wing rag!
LMAO, are you serious? How the hell can you do a "blind" voice analysis? You have to have a comparison. Now that is just indicative of the convoluted logic and ignorance of the Zimmie Zealots.
@Jo-Ann; The Zimmie Zealots appear to be very confused and biased by their sick need to hang onto their racism at any cost. It is disturbing, indeed, that there are so many (a minority to be sure, but enough to be disturbed about) that have so little self esteem that racsim is the only thing that makes them feel that they have any value in this world. Imagine living your life every day with the only way to make yourself feel that you have any value is to judge another based solely on the fact that they have more melanin than you do. Makes one wonder what abusive and depraved backgorunds these poor people come from, doesn't it?
Here is something that cannot be denied: had Zimmerman not gotten out of his vehicle and chased an unarmed teen who had every legal right to be right where he was, had Zimmerman not profiled Martin as being engaged in criminal activity when in fact, he saw him doing nothing but walking home in the rain, had Zimmerman not been so egocentric and narcissistic as to imagine himself an officer of the law and assumed those responsibilities on himself, had Zimmerman not chased a young teen who was, in fact, running away from him and posing no threat to him or his property, had Zimmerman acted as a responsible and clear headed adult and not a cop wanna be trying to make a hero's name for himself because his whole life had been such an abject failure, Trayvon Martin would be alive and George Zimmerman would not be waitiing to go to prison for 25 to life for taking his life.
Frederick Leatherman wrote today on his law blog:
Not a single one of you knows whether or not that picture is a recent or a old picture of TM. He doesn't look like you think that he should so you assume that is not how he looked at the time. So tell me, what does 17 look like? Does every single 17 year old look like they are 17? If you claim to know that every 17 year old must look a certain way you are a liar.
I wondered how long it would take until someone brought up that loon, Leatherman. Pretty much anything he writes can be discounted.
Docjt:
Yes, I'm serious. The alleged expert knew quite well that the people in charge wanted a "no match" decision and that no test would be done against Mr. Martin's voice.
"How the hell can you do a "blind" voice analysis?"
"Blind" is intended in the same sense as a "blind study." But I already clarified that. You just ignored it. The person making the determination of "match" or "no match" should not know which answer will help the case. It's easier to give an answer that helps the prosecution's case if you know what answer they want.
As for your claim of racism, I need only point out one thing. If Mr. Martin did not have dark skin, no one would have questioned the original prosecutor's decision not to file charges. It would be recognized as a clear-cut case of self-defense. Your description of the people who regard Zimmerman as an innocent victim better fits the people like yourself who want him lynched.
Voice experts have said it's NOT zimmerman...they can't say if it's Trayvon, because they don't have his voice to compare...
The jury will listen to all the 911 tapes and use their heads. No way that is gz crying for his life, it's obviously Trayvon. Add to the tapes, gz's assertion that he was being smothered, while having his head pounded into the ground, and the FACT that none of gz's DNA was found on Trayvon's hands or sleeves...
Bye, bye georgie, bye, bye...
Obama is also in mourning, "If I had a son-----------"
MNJL170 Your a Moron............
Blame it on the Iranians.
No he is actually funny. Obama always relates something with his imaginary son.
Hey way dont you go to an Occupy movement and crap on yourselves.
Well Frank, the President did say it didn't he?
Why is MNJL170 (and I'll assume myself now) a moron for quoting the President?
Some people might think that the President was a moron for uttering such words.
Do you have any idea how many young black men are shot and killed each year in our inner cities?
For the President to single out this one case to make a comment like that on would seem to some to be moronic. Though not me, I am not calling the President of the United States a moron. ( ahhh.....it's probably too late for that anyway)
Any parent who ever says they have moved on is either not a parent, or lying. When you lose a child you NEVER move on, you only learn to live with and accept it. But the hurt and pain going away, never, that lasts forever with the good memories. Even if not on this earth, his killer WILL pay by going to hell.
THe killer of the young boy(*photo) was justified. Won't see hell for that. Dumb boy! should not have attacked a man with a gun.
The young man attacked Zimmerman. He did not have to attack him but he chose to attack Zimmerman so veraciously that he was left with no choice but to up his force level to deadly force.
It is not up to you to judge Zimmerman's fate in the afterlife. That is above all of our pay grades.
Not even close. try reading the police reports and not Fox News or the right wing echo chamber once in a while.
the "killer" was defending himself from attack by a young punk. he WILL NOT go to hell for defending himself. you need to pick something else to whine about.
Same for the north Koreans.
I still would like to know why that kid was allowed to go out at that time of night getting "candy". If a "child" wanted candy, a "child" should not go out in the middle of the night for candy. Why did he run when asked why he was there. Many Many questions are not answered. Why was he wearing a hoodie over his head in private residents anyway. Maybe the parents can face the fact that their "good boy" was up to no good.
He had just turned 17 and went out around 7pm to the store.
He was not a child.He was 17 years of age.
Legally and mentally that is a child.
To be fair Lisa......
He was not a child and the incident took place around dinner time.
We all need to keep with the facts as they are known- whichever side of the story we support.
Lisa....don't be a liar like some others on here (like the joker with the shades on in his avatar). The facts will be stated in court, without liberal or racist hysterics, and the jury will decide. (to acquit....my own opinion))
"Legally and mentally that is a child." -- Legally a minor. Physically an adult and more than capable of killing someone with his bare hands.
culheath- wrong. At 17 he is considered an Juvenal. Under the law one must be 12 or younger to be considered a child.
A child ? Are you serious ? What a stupid, stupid comment.
We had a child (age 17 and black) here in Sarasota, Fl. shoot and kill two innocent British tourist that became lost and wandered into the black area of town. They were shot because they were white. They were murdered while begging for their lives. That CHILD was tried as an adult and found guilty.
Travon Martin was anything but a child.
Coach--what sentence did the "child" who shot the tourists get?
Clearly he was a child. Look at the picture. Not sure I would let my son of that age go to the store at night by himself. He must have been about 11?
culheath
Legally and mentally that is a child.
-------------------------------------------------------
you know zero about psychology then, Culheath
he was a 6 foot, football playing, bus driver beating, woman humiliating, thieving, thug.....
he decided to beat down Zimmerman to get more cred because Zimmerman had the nerve to try to keep sight of him for a couple of minutes until the cops got there
Trayvon was a predator.... and when you do that, you risk picking on someone who can defend themselves
At 7:00 pm on a Sunday evening. Are you serious? LMAO.
Culheath quite obviously knows more about psychology than you do about truth.
Jim- The pic is of Travon at 12. It was placed in the article to mislead people into thinking that he was an innocent child rather than the misguided tough guy wannabe he was.
Take a look at some of his more up to date facebook pics that will remove the illusion.
Culheath,
When I was 17 at 5'10, 165 lbs. and athletic, I was considered one of the toughest guys in King county (including Seattle) and there were not many adult men I could not take. A lot of it depends on how and where one grows up, for me it was the inter-city housing projects where the mind set was eat or be eaten.
For Trayvon it was a middle class upbringing. He was not a street person. Huge difference.
It is so funny hearing how distorted every ones "facts" are. Martin was 5'11" tall, Zimmerman was 5'8" tall. Martin was 3 inches taller than Zimmerman according to police reports at the night of the killing. Martin weighed 158 - 160 pounds, Zimmerman weighed 200 pounds according to police reports at the night of the killing, at least 40 pounds more than Martin. Who gets the size advantage there? So stop with that saying Martin is this towering 6 foot or more giant and Zimmerman is some kind of shrimpo. On the tape where Zimmerman is talking to police, He is watching Martin, says Martin sees him and starts walking towards him like he is about to confront him, then suddenly Martin begins to run away - why? Did something Zimmerman do frighten Martin? Maybe Zimmerman showed off his gun or pulled it out and pointed it at Martin. We don't know what happened, we just hear Zimmerman talking to the dispatcher who when Zimmerman tells that he is following Martin is told he doesn't need to do that. This conversation takes place at around 7 pm - so stop with that saying this happened at 2 am. Martin has a police record of school suspension over graffiti and possession of a pot pipe and an empty bag with marijuana residue, possession of jewelry and a screwdriver possibly petty theft but unproved. Zimmerman has a police record of assaulting an armed police officer and domestic violence against his wife. So stop saying Martin has this record of being a violent thug. Finally, there is the 911 tape with someone screaming desperately for help and then a gun shot followed by silence. An expert in voice analysis using a device made for analyzing voice patterns states that the voice screaming for help in the background does not belong to George Zimmerman. I listened to those tapes myself and they do not sound like a grown man's voice, they do sound like a young adult's voice though - hey, it's not just me an expert agrees it is not Zimmerman yelling. So the question is, if you were unarmed and fighting desperately for your life against someone who pulled a gun on you, might you not have any other physical wounds except on your knuckles and the gunshot wound while the other person was beaten up badly because their only concern was aiming their gun at you and firing? Here is the question no one is asking - why didn't George Zimmermando any fighting back against Trayvon Martin before pulling out his gun? It sounds a lot more like he already had his gun out leaving Martin no other choice but to attack to save his life. Zimmerman's story just does not add up and much of the evidence points to the fact that he stalked, pulled his gun out while Martin screamed for help and fought for his life and then shot Martin.
I absolutely agree with you and I am continually amazed thar people cannot see the holes in Zimmerman's version of what happened.
Martin's parents told the police when they described him intheir "missing person" report as "over 6'3" and less than 150 lbs. Yet the post mortem report put him at approx 6' and 160.
Absent dad who lived with girlfriend half the state away from his Miami-based son/ex-wife ought have stayed home with the teen who was clearly troubled and headed for more trouble. Absent dad said he needed "me time" and went out with his girlfriend, while the 17-year-old headed out and immediately got himself in trouble. Sitting out yet another school suspension, the teen had been exiled to Sanford by his mom, who admitted she could no longer control him. Absent dad cannot move on from his own guilt and wants to absolve his guilt by forcing everyone to share his guilt. No, parent your children or don't have them. Absent dad's teen son is the one who, while bored and angry, decided to go back and confront the guy sitting in his car (on the phone with 911, ironically), spoke to Zimmerman then darted off into the night as if to lure Zimmerman. It worked. Zimmerman walked up the condo sidewalk to the back of the condo complex, didn't see the individual and was headed back to await police at his car when Martin emerged from behind a corner shrub and attacked Zimmerman with a sucker punch. He sat atop Zimmerman, broke his nose with another punch and then beat his head repeatedly on the edge of the condo sidewalk, stopped only by the business end of a bullet. Nice kid, absent dad. You raised a real winner. And btw, why aren't the Martin defenders still not reading the police report and listening to the entire l-e-n-g-t-h-y 911 call, as well as reading what more than 20 witnesses have stated to police. Moreover, Zimmerman gave police 4 signed statements within 24 hours of the shooting, all of which he willingly gave without a lawyer present, all of which correspond in deep detail with forensic evidence and witnesses' statements.
I studied martial arts for 15+ years i just want to say this. It is not easy punching some one especially if you don't know how to do it right. Killing some one with your bear hands is not easy either as people think it is. It takes years of training for martial artist to get good at fighting and to understand how to apply hand to hand combat. I have done bouncer and security work in the past i have gotten into a few fights myself so i understand how the nature of fighting progresses from an assailant. Now i dont know what happened that evening. But it bothers me that people are on here saying Martin could kill Zimmerman with his bear hands makes no sense at all a 17 year old kid assuming he had no martial arts training at all is not likely to have had the capacity to kill Zimmerman with his bear hands before the police arrived.
Click> A Mystery Solved!
This short video shows the movie where George got his "lines"...........of 'You got a problem?........"No, I don't have a problem'..........'You got a problem now'
Two things to correct:
Kahn: "Zimmerman has a police record of ... domestic violence against his wife." -- This is 100% untrue.
hakstarr: It does not take years of martial arts to be able to kill someone with your bare hands, and I say this as a black belt in one system and mid-ranking belts in two others. Look at the guy who found some man molesting his 5-yr-old daughter; he punched the man to death. Slamming someone's head into the concrete repeatedly can KILL them. Heck, some people have been hit once, fallen to the sidewalk, and later died from head trauma. It happens every day.
Too bad there's no evidence indicating any such thing happened.
And really too bad that there is evidence supporting that it DIDN'T happen.
A question for the TM supporters.
Why did GZ shoot?
No racism found by the FBI.
No consistent history of hardcore violence.
Would not a wannabe cop, wannabe hero want a live trophy to show off and you have said GZ had physical control of TM.
And would not an average person, let alone a criminal justice student, know better than to shoot an unarmed person they had physical control over, after a several minute confrontation filled with yells and screams, at 7PM on a Sunday, in the middle of a row of townhomes, when they knew people were watching and the police were likely to show up at any second.
Depraved state of mind
Click> That Train's Coming, George
So was GZ insane at the time he shot TM?
Or are you just slinging and hoping something will stick.
That Train's Coming, George
Because he is a cowardly little a$$ that thought he would get away with his criminal behavior by manipulating the cops with lies.
In short, because he wrote a check his a$$ couldn't cash.
yahtc
From all that you have posted, all you can respond with is someone else's song and someone else's opinion. Sad. LMAO, but sad.
docjt
So GZ shot TM because he wanted to see if he could commit a crime and get away with it by lying, thereby proving he is not a coward. By your word, you are an egit.
That Train's Coming, George
yahtc
Well if that is all you have, then that is all you have.
Now you can go run back to your fantasy circle-jerk Leatherman site.
2/22/2013 - Denied AGAIN! - different train
~eyes rolling~
Like this hasn't ALL been explained before?
Oops. Wrong again. "Depraved state of mind" does not equal "insanity" by any set of criteria.
Depraved state of mind explains TM's actions, now explain GZ's.
You are quite confused. But that's okay. We'll just wait until the trial gets underway, and then laugh our collective a$$es off at proving you wrong once again when old Georgie is found guilty of second degree murder.
Zimmerman walks a free man. Justice reigns.
Keep right on saying it. I have quite the collection of posts from you that once this trial begins on June 10, I will be reposting here to show how many times you were wrong, lol.
:)
Yes, we will!
Is this a picture of that "child" when he did the crime or is this a picture of this so called "child" when he was a teenager? Funny, why are they not showing a recent picture of him? Maybe to get people to feel sorry for an "adult" that was doing wrong?
He was a teenager.
he was a thug,paid for it!
He was a A & B level student with ambitions to become an engineer. Had minor trouble at school like many students his age. He emulated some hip hop fashion on Facebook like 10 million other normal kids do.
He is reported by friends, neighbors and teachers as a loving and easy going middle class kid. His parents are both middle class employed people (his mother, by the state of Florida and father as a coach by a Florida school district) the family is middle class. His brother is in college majoring in IT. He was not in any sense a thug.
Minimal research will back up what I have said as true and if you could leave your right wing bubble of willful ignorance for two seconds I wouldn't have to explain what actual information has been out there freely available for over a year.
culheath, his grades have never been released, and I think one person or two had positive things to say in one interview. Also, do you really consider three suspensions and some 56 days (or something like that) absent in the one school year "minor trouble"? Burglary tools, vandalism, carrying a pot pipe and a baggie with pot residue= minor trouble?
Yes.
Pot is nothing. The bag was empty and the burglary tools was a screw driver. Anything else you'd like to hype? I was suspended from school several times for typical @!$%#. Was a nearly straight A student who acted out. Never been in trouble with the law since.
The fact is Trayvon Martin was a middle class kid walking home in the rain at around 7:30 pm talking on the phone to his girl friend and nothing else. Where's the crime? Where's the reason for Zimmerman to profile and follow him?
But you and others on here are going to extreme lengths to make the kid appear like a thug looking for trouble and trying to exonerate Zimmerman's actions as reasonable. They were not.
I was walking in the rain and found a quarter.
Lol, right on Steve!
If you feel that burglary tools, pot possession, vandalism, and three suspensions in one year are minor then you are a part of the problem with society today. And again, his grades have not been released so there is no basis for your claim that he was nearly a straight A student--and with so many days missed and suspensions, that is extremely unlikely.
You are the problem.
Don't forget the bragging about giving the bus driver the beat-down. That is just another youthful right of passage.
He was a teenager when he was shot and killed. He was 3 weeks past his 16th birthday.
The most recent picture of him would be the one with him lying dead with a bullet hole in his chest. But guess what...he's still be a teen ager.
all these people are not angel`sI I what kind of a teen ager?, baby picture`s don`t cut it here.
I saw punk hooded picture`s, and mr. bad ass.
So according the racists here...because he was suspended a few times, was a pot user, had a bag of Skittles, some ice tea, was talking to his girlfriend on the phone while walking in a light rain....he deserved to be stalked, harrased and shot.......DOH!
Same racists are furious the article doesnt show a photo of Trayvon with guns, knives, bazookas, clubs, tazers, slingshots and spitballs.....No matter what photo is used, they want one they have pictured in their minds that would allow them to justify the murder of Trayvon.
So, anyone who does not believe that Trayvon Martin was an innocent "child" just has to be a racist?
There are some of us who look at the facts,as reported by multiple sources,NOT just MSLSD,a part of NBC,the same network who started the whole race baiting bullsh*t by editing audio tapes-or did you forget about that?, after all-that lie was what got drunk as*ed on the air at MSLSD Rev. Al Sharpton,and Jesse Jackson involved in the case to begin with.
These are the facts-Martin was not an innocent kid,and certainly looked nothing like the picture of him at 12 that MSLSD keeps displaying to advance their racist,anti-gun agenda.
Martin was shot by Zimmerman,who by the way NEVER said anything racist,and had zero prior history of saying,or doing anything racist,and in fact,helped minority children as a volunteer-Zimmerman broke no laws while following Mr. Martin,nor did he disobey any order from the police.
The evidence points to Zimmermans account of what happened being correct-unless YOU were personally there-and witnessed the altercation and shooting yourself-YOU have NO IDEA what happened-judging by YOUR comments-YOU are the racist-and the one who is only reading info from media that support your own pre-conceived idea of what happened.
The truth could very well be that Trayvon Martin was really the thug the "racists" here believe he was-and that Zimmerman DID shoot martin in self defense.
See what happens at trial-funny how that brings out the real facts-NOT the agenda driven bullsh*t reported by outlets like this one.
Starsailing:
No, he was shot because he was actively trying to beat someone to death. And Zimmerman had every right to choose his own life over that of his would-be killer. The racists are the ones who adjust the story like you did.
@Stavin Larry - Zimmerman is on tape with the dispatcher before the confrontation that ended Martin's life calling Martin a "F*cking coon!"
Sorry, you are incorrect Khan. That was reported, but no where on the tape does he say those words. Go listen to the entire recording.
Because recent photos show him to be the potential gangbanger he was. gold teeth, tattoos on and a mean looking face, flipping off the camera. google some of his twitter comments before they deleted them talikg about how women are just hoes and telling his friend he should have killed somebody for dissing him. its quite interesting. I cant wait till GZ gets out so the riots start, ill be sittin back watchin.
oh yeah and his name on twitter was no limit nigga. i love that one.
"No Limit" is a clothing brand aimed at youth
@Glock,
Those photos have been proven, months ago, not to be the Trayvon Martin that George Zimmerman murdered. But hey, don't let facts get in your way. It is the nature of racists to be ignorant and stupid.
Those pictures actually incriminate Zimmerman, CCM. Remember how George said he had to shoot Trayvon because Trayvon was hitting him, slamming his head on the sidewalk and smothering him?
Well, guess what. None, I say none, of George's blood/DNA was found on Trayvon's hands according to the forensic reports. Therefore, Trayvon did none of the things George claims.
Click> 0:38 That Train's Coming, Georgeby LLMPapa - YouTube
It actually would have been better if there had been no blood on George's face. Then George could have said, "Hey he smothered me." and not have to now explain why there was no blood on Trayvon's hands.
Of course, he would still have to explain why none of his (gz's) DNA (from gz's saliva,snot, etc.) was not found on Trayvon's hands.
What a mess George is in!
Doc, you are wrong about the photos. There are indeed photos out there of Trayvon with a grill, flipping off the camera, showing his tattoos, etc.
thoughtful comments: "None of George's blood/DNA was found on Trayvon's hands according to the forensic reports. " -- Actually it would more correct to say that none of George's DNA was found in the single fingernail scraping test that came back with readable results. The other fingernail scraping test was not usable and no testing was done on Trayvon's hands themselves. Therefore, the forensic results are incomplete.
Some people insist those photos are of Mr. Martin. Others insist they have been "proven" to be fakes. Interestingly, no one who says they are fakes bothers to provide a more recent picture than the ones showing him as a ten-yr-old.
Wonder who or what caused George's injuries? We know it wasn't Trayvon because none of George's DNA/ blood was found on Trayvon's hands.
I don't wonder at all who caused Zimmerman's injuries. Mr. Martin caused them. You are repeating a lie that you have already been corrected on. So I know it is a lie rather than a mere error.
lol, Pvblivs...good try. You are basing all your conclusions on your faith in gz's story...you are not using any of the evidence.
You had better watch this 36 second video and then freeze the frame in the video that shows the official forensic report on Trayvon's hands.
Click> Gloves, Maybe?
docjt whos pics are they his twin??? and btw im hardly a racist and clearly not ignorant. i may be stupid trying to talk to you.
If you had managed to actually follow the case, instead of basing all of your opinions on a complete lack of information and racism, you would already have the answer to your question. You are responsible for your ignorance in the matter.
No, thoughtful, that your statement had already been refuted does not require any reference to Zimmerman's claims at all. DNA samples were "inconclusive." But you ignore that part and say "no Zimmerman DNA." And when I call you on that you say "faith in Zimmerman's story."
Docjt:
If you had an answer to the question, you would have presented it. The fact is that those photos have not been shown not to be of Mr. Martin. I strongly suspect that they are the real deal because the media will not show any pictures of Mr. Martin at 17. They will only show pictures of him at ten.
And you have nothing. That's why you keep shouting "ignorance and racism." You have no answers to give.
Actually, Pvblis, the DNA testing from Trayvon Martin's hands were not inconclusive. Trayvon Martin's hands were found to contain no DNA other than his own. Perhaps you should take the time to read the actual reports on the analysis.
Answers to these silly questions have been presented numerous times over the past year. You simply ignore them. That is not my responsibility; it is yours.
The media has shown numerous pictures of Trayvon Martin taken a mere 2 weeks prior to his death. Again, if you have failed to access those photos, it is your responsibility for that failure, not mine not anyone elses. No one can remediate your ignorance and lack of information except you.
DOCJT,
Is it possible that Pvblivs wants to twist the facts?
Twist and Shout - The Beatles - YouTube
Why would Pvblivs want to actually "read" the report?
He enjoys spreading the lies he has "heard"...
that is so much more satisfying to that type.
Yeah, well, trolls will be trolls. It is how they gain the attention they are unable to get from real people and real relationships.
No, "thoughtful," it is not possible that Pvblivs wants to twist the facts. Pvblivs merely presents the facts as they are. Docjt, on the other hand, has nothing and so relies on calling me "racist" and "troll."
That's funny. You have yet to present a single fact as it actually is.
There are photos of him older it just seems every news agency wants to use the little kid picture cause it gets more sympathy. Then they do the opposite and use a picture of Zimmerman that makes him look bigger and meaner. The big white man killed the poor little black kid. Makes you wonder if he could sue the news agencies for slandering him by doing this? They are trying to persuade the public to side with the not so little Martin.
At death he was 5'11' 158 lbs.
Funny, I heard he was 6'2" and 140lbs. Where did I hear that? Right here on MSNBC. I truly doubt the 140 lb part unless he was malnourished. I also heard he played football. Where? Here. I really doubt anything I read on here, especially if culheath is the one saying it.
Well, what you heard was wrong according to the autopsy reports. But I guess checking for accurate info is just too much to ask.
Gunner -- Good news (at least SOME, so far), very end of article...last statement: "Editor's note: George Zimmerman has sued NBCUniversal for defamation, and the company has strongly denied his allegations."
Of course they deny it, so we'll see how that goes.
DOCJT, I guess you missed my point. But reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it?
No, Mike, I didn't miss your point. The point is, Culheath was giving the information that is contained in the autopsy report, which means, you really don't have a point. But nice try.
Try again skippy; my point was, since you are so thick, that you can't believe MSNBC and you sure as hell can't believe culheath. I know whats in the report; y'all tend to take what bits and pieces fit your view (out of context) and quote them on here. Who cares how big TM was; he shouldn't have jumped Geo.
Quite obviously, skippy, you don't know what's in the report, or you would not be making the ignorant and inaccurate statements you are making.
But hey, why let facts get in your way. Racism can't exist without ignorance and stupidity. And holding onto your racsim is the only thing you have to make yourself feel that you have any worth in this world.
Jesus H. Christ, let me pound it into your skull. I DID NOT MAKE ANY STATEMENTS, I REPEATED CONFLICTING STATEMENTS THAT I HAVE HEARD ON HERE! My gods, man, I certainly hope you really aren't a doctor; I wouldn't let you work on my dog. I take part of that back, I made one statement; I don't believe anything I read here. I also don't agree with you; obviously that kills you. Love the race card, btw, Can't sleep right until one of you race baiters call me a racist. Especially when I never once mentioned race, troglodyte.
"Racism can't exist without ignorance and stupidity."
Let's not forget using terms like "skippy" to demean dissenters. You are the one holding on to your racism.
pvblivs, how is "skippy" racist? Elitist? Definitely. Y'all demean anyone that disagrees with you, but no one is allowed to return the courtesy, huh? Please don't lecture me about marginalizing anyone on here; I have seen you do it on countless occasions. Unfortunately, I'm human, so sometimes I stoop to your level. Once again I ask; what have I said that is racist? Or it it a way to demean a dissenter? ;)
Mike Wallace: "How are we going to get rid of racism?"
Morgan Freeman: "Stop talking about it."
Mike:
Racists (and other bigots) having no facts to support them, rely on the use of demeaning terms to try to silence their critics. And, while it would be nice if you would treat me with the courtesy I extend to you, I do not expect it.
It's funny how racists don't have mirrors in their homes...
That is because they got tired of cleaning up the broken glass. Everytime they tried to look in a mirror, it shattered.
"It's funny how racists don't have mirrors in their homes..."
Finally, one of you admits that I'm not a racist; thanks Jo-an!
They have not moved on because there is too much money in playing the victim/race card. Just ask Al and Jesse. Obvious they were not worried about him when he was alive so now suddenly they care? Guess welfare benefits were cut.
Of course they are not going to move on. There is too much profit, emotional and financial, in cultivating this wound. That is why we still have so much racial animosity 150 years after the end of slavery.
I just ordered a pizza.
@navyvet:
They have not moved on because NO child who is doing nothing wrong should be pursued based on unfounded suspicions. They have not moved on because forensics indicates that George lied about saying that Trayvon punched gz in the face, slammed gz's head into the pavement, and covered gz's mouth and nose in an attempt to smother gz.
They have not moved on because evidence indicates gz was in control when he shot and killed Trayvon. GZ's killing of Trayvon was not an act of self defense.
Right. We will be able to move on when George is tried. There is no doubt as to his guilt of taking the life of an unarmed teen doing nothing more than walking home from the store. When he is tried, he will be held responsible for his actions. Then we can all move on. Justice will have been served.
Fake Doc: "his guilt of taking the life of an unarmed teen doing nothing more than walking home from the store. " -- Beating a man and slamming his head into the concrete is a lot more than "nothing".
Well, since there is nothing to substantiate that ever happened, I guess you are just shyte out of luck. Howevr, there is more than sufficient proof that George Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed teen walking home from the store.
I do like your expressions, DOCJT. Oh, and I hadn't heard about bats combined with mental state before, either. (lol - It's been a great year in this category.)
Maybe the parents can't face the fact that they did not do a good job of raising this "precious child" and feel guilty and instead of taking personal responsibility they are blaming others for their mistake.
I'm sure you blamed the people in the movie theater in Aurora for being at a movie so late and the kids in Newtown for not being sick that day too.
No that would be wrong. They did not attack anyone. We only blame the black boy for attacking a man with a gun. The parents should have taught him to have respect and be smart. Not a Punk!
I like to fish as well.
Sort of like Zimmerman huh? He's blaming Trayvon for his mistake.
Steve...what kind of fish? What kind of pizza, you need to be more specific!
Lisa-
George's parents should have taught him not to act like a wanna-be-cop and not to have sounded like a thug in his 2005 MySpace page.
Trayvon Martin was not a punk no matter how much you want to falsely accuse him of that.
Right. If anyone's parenting skills should be questioned, it should be those of George's parents.
Ahhh the right wing racist nuts came running when they googled "Trayvon" I see!
You are so right Lynne. These people act like they lived in the hood with him and saw him misbehave every day. I smoked pot when I was in school. I also am a working, for 35 years, professional that has never been in trouble with the law. I guess I should have been shot when I was 16, smoking pot and all........
Since when did all right wing people become racists?
Some of the most racist people I know are liberals.
INCLUDING some Blacks and Hispanics I know.
Seems to me that you are the profiling racist here.
And the left wing bleeding hearts are on here to mouth off about a punk teen that was too stupid to shut his mouth and move along. You'll be looting,rioting and marching when the good man Mr. Zimmerman is out.
How can you possibly know any of that? What a simply ignorant comment.
Unfortunately this does not promote sales for Wal-Mart.
What's really funny to me is how these bozos get to the vine first and collapse every comment that doesn't agree with them.
Frederick Leatherman wrote today on his law blog:
"his honor and his legacy won’t be tainted by this whole situation.”
I know that the parents suffered a great loss and I would not wish more grief upon them.
However, The only person that can effect his honor is himself. Martin Trayvon dishonored himself. He was beating a mans head into the pavement in a direct threat to Zimmerman's life, so he died for his actions.
Their was no honor in the way Martin lived his life or in the way he died.
Honor, courage, integrity, trustworthiness, respect, humility, empathy, compassion and love are all noble values. Values such as these will reduce violence. These values can not be legislated. No law will change the hearts of humans.
As parents, brothers, sisters, friends, neighbors, etc we can all be examples of these values and teach others the importance of these values. The ills of a community are the responsibility of each and every member of that community. When the members of a community take on this responsibility, great things happen.
This is a solution that will reduce murders and other crimes. It has been proven effective century after century in countless places.
Were you there?
I was at Wal-Mart.
if the little retard would have just went about his biz the dummy would still be alive!!
Zimmerman you mean? Yeah you're right. Martin was minding his own business.
gzs story of the night of February 26, 2012 is full of lies.
gz said that Trayvon was pounding his head into the concrete and punching his face when gz shot him. The forensic evidence proves that this is NOT true---There was NONE of gz's blood or DNA on Trayvon's hands.
gz said that Trayvon was smothering gz by putting his hands on gz's mouth and nose. The forensic evidence proves this is NOT true---There was NONE of gz's DNA on Trayvon's hands.
gz PURSUED Trayvon with a loaded gun from one end of the neighborhood to the other first by car, then on foot.
gz had unfounded suspicions of Trayvon who was simply walking innocently home from the store. Trayvon was not what gz said he was......that is, Trayvon was NOT one of those "a$$holes who always get away" NOR was Trayvon a "fu@king punk"
In fact, Investigator Serino said he was a "mild mannered" kid with a bright future:
Click> Zimmerman's Gravity
The blood trails on the back of gz's head indicate that gz was on top.
If gz had been on the bottom, that blood would have been smeared.
Click> Sir Isaac and Witness 18 For The Prosecution
Culheath:
No, if Mr. Martin had minded his own business, and not tried to show that he could kill someone with his bare hands, he would still be alive. I know you figure that "beating some 'cracker's' head in is no big deal. But Zimmerman simply defended himself.
Nothing but uninformed, ignorant, bigoted assumption on your part that is not supported by the evidence.
Oh, well. At least you are consistent.
"Nothing but uninformed, ignorant, bigoted assumption on your part that is not supported by the evidence."
Yes, I have noticed that your comments are like that. I also note that you rely largely on name-calling, too.
Nope, my comments are accurate. I invite you to go to the evidence dumps and find anything that proves me wrong.
LOL...
And now we wait!
@Jo-An
Of course it has all been explained before. Kpm is just hoping if he asks the same questions over and over, he will eventually get the answer he wants, lol.
Brain power has never been it's strong suit!
"find anything that proves me wrong" that ground has already been covered docjt, many , many times.
TM supporters can not come up with a single story that explains what happened that night from beginning to end. How is a jury not to have reasonable doubt?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Kpm. Just wait for June 10th. Not only will you have been proven wrong thousands of times on Newsvine, the court will prove you wrong, as well. What screen name you gonna use then so you can hide?
Wow Lisa Mona and all of you others that were there that night should step up, testify to what you saw and get this over with! You seem to know more than anyone about exactly what happened and why.
She was at Wal-Mart too.
i was at target
Where were you, Rick?
R.I.P Trayvon, you will always be in the hearts and thoughts of many who have heard your story.
May God continue to give the Martins and families who have lost their children to violence and other ills the strength to move forward.
Christopher-4047527
alan-2014309
Viewer_Ready
mpa-4893349
MNJL170
Lisa Mona
navyvet98
A short list of Semi-Human Filth
You forgot to add yourself culheath.
But then again.
It's your post, so you headline it.
Funny how you make up all these details on his personal appearance. A 17 athletic black can be violent and dumb enough to attack a man. As it is if he was in New York, the Mayor would have had him arrested for eating sugar and carrying a soft drink. His criminality aside, I notice you have no problem with Black children gunning down other Black children; you only take offense when a Hispanic is involved.
Did you even wonder why not a single school teacher, childhood playmate, fellow gang banger has come forward to say anything nice about the poor innocent Tray or that they even knew him.. Why is the boy so toxic to his own people?
definitely put yourself at the top of the list Culheath
When did this turn into the "Trailer Trash forum". The kid is DEAD for Christ's Sake! And you still need to trash him, WTF? Your hatred for this kid is completely unfounded. Chill people and get back whittling or what ever trailer trash does with its your spare time.
My children will always be my "children" no matter how old they are. In Jebus name we pray.
Exactly. Hence my short list above.
I have children too.
I asked a simple question about a picture that should not be in the article.
They way Treyvon is portrayed is the innocent child.
He was much older than this photo.
And I got "trashed".
I have pictures of my stepson who was just as innocent looking as he is,
dead now, because he chose a violent way of life.
He was two years older than that photo. He had just turned 17 a month before his death.
We are not trashing him. However, this was not the innocent child that some are making him out to be.
He did not have to attack Zimmerman, he chose to.
He could have chose to be honest when asked a question and all this could have been avoided. He chose not to.
SO you know him personally?
The photos I have seen have all said "in an undated photo".
And that does not matter.
What matters is the "kid" is shown, not the person he was when he died.
A few years can make a big difference in appearance AND attitude.
Yes, you are trashing him for no reason beyond a kind of right wing, racist camaraderie. And you are still trashing him with no actual knowledge of the kid at all.
Its not hatred for the kid. It is hatred for all the lying SOBs that are crying the race card. My hell even the black guy that supported Zimmerman had to be put under police protection.
Right. So innocent:
A rose by any other name is a rose. culheath by any other name is a troll. The bait has been stolen from your hook. Reel it back in, re-bait it and cast it in another pond. lol. ;-)
culheath has no talking point other than to trash conservatives.
This thread is not his usual pond.
The other ones must be running out of fish.
Check my posting history fools. I'm no troll and I've been posting on the Trayvon case over a year now. I live maybe 80 miles from the town where this happened and I know a hell of lot more about the case than most posting their ignorant remarks here.
Jebus ? Is that a new religion using ebonics ?
ybes!
lousy kid, grades and parents! if he is beating on me, id do the same thing!! NOT GUILTY!
I have no use for the parents. I think they are dramatists and are out to make big bucks: golddiggers. This kid was no choir boy. There is more to this than meets the eye. It is never easy to lose a child, but it appears to me the kid certainly had dirty hands and now his parents are busy playing the victims, after not having properly supervised him. A little much.
This story makes me SICK. The press has to put his 12 year old picture up again instead of the GANGBANGER PICTURE he had on facebook. The kid was a punk that obviously attacked Zimmerman as proved by the photos the prosecution finaly had to release. The is no doubt in my mind that he would have taken Zimmermans gun away and killed him if Zimmerman hadnt been lucky enough to reach it will getting the snot kicked out of him. Sad thing about it is that if that had happened no one would have said a word for fear of the race card.
The agenda here is still clearly to show that when any other race kills a black person it is a global event. When it is black on black the whole incident can be forgotten in a matter of a few days. Martin is still seriously dead and his parents' choice to 'never move on' shows they hold a grudge they will certainly try to capitalize on for a long time. I still do not understand why Martin's parents went to England immediately after the shooting. What good did that do for their case, other than get their faces on the news?
The only thing worse for news outlets is their constant and complete ignoring of black on white crimes. Ever hear of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom? Yeah, thought not. Had the races been reversed, we'd STILL be hearing about them...
The vile, disgusting and ugly truth of what the 'news' ignores:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Chris -
www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/chris
www.knoxnews.com/news/news/local/channon-christian-christoph
www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp
I could go on and on...may they rest in peace and never be forgotten!
The most equitable decision is to watch Looney Toons. After that we can blame the GOP and Dems for the trade secrets been compromised by the Hawaiians.
Provoke some one to fight, lose and shoot. Zimmy's goose is cooked.
adrift, the evidence pretty clearly indicates that it was Martin who initiated the confrontation, not Zimmerman.
adrift- Absolutely. How dare Zimmerman even think to defend himself while his head was being beaten into the sidewalk.
Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. Not by media opinion or yours.
typical black,stick up for the loser!
What was I smoking?
Whats to strongly deny?
They edited the tape to make Zimmerman look racist...why deny it?
Tapeographical error,right?
Zimmys grasping at straws.
Two people were in the altercation,one is alive and can testify....you base what you say on what?
You have a hidden surveilance camera,testimony from beyond the grave,a swami perhaps?
Police photos show Zimmerman's injuries consistent with an altercation,Martin shows injuries consistent with the loser in an altercation.
End of story.
they could have shopped at Wal-Mart.
Uh, defamation. Reading comprehension tripping you up?
Still showing baby pic instead of the gang-banger with the gold teeth. The kid was no good or he would have been with his mother and going to school. When he was expelled he had to go to his father's place.
The kid was no good or he would have been with his mother and going to school.
@ jay...
Rabid dogs like you-- love to exaggerate your racist BS! Nothing new.
Wasn't explelled, had no gold teeth, was with his father, no baby pictures have been shown. Why do you racist morons have to lie? If you were as right as you think you are, why the need to make shyte up? Oh, I know. The truth blows your a$$ out of the water.
Docjt, give it a break none of us were there and what the press reports is not allways factual. I suggest we all let a jury do their job. It's a tragedy and a sad story of human stupidity but not not last one we will hear of.
I will never give the liars a break. They have done virtually nothing to earn one.
Just another dead thug!
Jim-352656
Just another dead thug!
Jim, same exact thing I said of... YO' UGLY MAMA!
cd,bet your sorry losin black ass stuck up for oj and jj junior,your race is pathetic!
he was not a thug, he could have worked at Wal-Mart.
Martin was a Thug, he had been expelled for Drugs, and you people want to make a Martar out of a Hood, get real.
And you're a racist pig too stupid to spell correctly, even with a computer. Go stick your head in the toilet and die, please.
No, but old Georgie is liable to be within a short time of reaching the state pen.
I already have moved on. A year is an eternity to the american psyche.