E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSTwo veteran police officers, Elizabeth Butler and Loran Baker were killed Tuesday while following up on a criminal investigation. The shooter was subsequently killed in a standoff with law enforcement. NBC's Brian Williams reports
Two Santa Cruz, Calif., police officers were shot to death Tuesday afternoon - the first time in city history that officers were killed in the line of duty. One suspect was also killed.
The two officers who died, Det. Sgt. Loran "Butch" Baker and Det. Elizabeth Butler, had a combined 38 years of experience with the Santa Cruz Police Department.
View more videos at: http://nbcbayarea.com.
"We at the Santa Cruz Police Department are like family," Santa Cruz police chief Kevin Vogel said. "I've known both of these officers for a long, long time and there just aren't words to describe how I feel personally about this and how our department is reacting to this horrific, horrific tragedy."
Baker had been with the department for 28 years and leaves behind a wife, two daughters and a son, Adam, who works for the department as a community service officer.
Butler leaves her partner, Peter, and two young sons.
"This is the darkest day in the history of the Santa Cruz Police Department," Vogel said.
Baker and Butler went to an address on North Branciforte Avenue as a part of an investigation Tuesday. Details are unclear, but in making contact with the suspect, Santa Cruz resident Jeremy Goulet, 35, an altercation ensued.
Both detectives were killed at the scene.
After going door-to-door in the community authorities say there are no more outstanding suspects or any danger to the community.
The Santa Cruz Sentinel said the investigation was possibly domestic violence related, but Santa Cruz County Sheriff Phil Wowak could not confirm what the investigation was about.
A Santa Cruz resident, who declined to give his name, said he was sitting in his house in the 800 block of North Branciforte Avenue when he heard gunfire across the street around 3:30 p.m. Police arrived soon, he said. That's when a suspect fired at police, hitting the two officers.
Butler family via NBC Los Angeles
Detective Elizabeth Butler was killed in the line of duty Tuesday. She is survived by a long-time partner and two young sons.
A while later, he heard a "multitude of gunfire" coming from an area nearby. He said police told residents to stay inside and not to leave.
Following the incident, schools in the immediate area were placed on lockdown.
"We need to figure out a way to bring our department together and get through this," Vogel said. "It's a horrible, horrible day for the Santa Cruz Police Department and the community of Santa Cruz."
After the police were killed, a second shooting occurred a half-hour later while police were in pursuit of at least the suspect on Doyle Street. A barrage of gunfire erupted that left Goulet dead on Doyle Street, according to the Sentinel.
Police were on a citywide manhunt for several hours after the initial shooting. The FBI joined the investigation just after 4 p.m. as well as law enforcement from the sheriff's office, Capitola, Watsonville and Scotts Valley police departments and the California Highway Patrol.
NBC Bay Area's George Kiriyama and Bay City News contributed to this report.
This story was originally published on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:08 PM EST
Leave a Comment:
Awaiting registration info on the guns, then let the discussion begin anew...
First time for everything.
And the rest of the story:
Question is: How did another "unstable" person obtain weapons ? That is the root of many of the violent acts concerning guns. However, many of the shootings are between gang bangers, especially in Cheeeecago.
The Progressives could care less about the root of the problem, and only care about Gun Control.....PERIOD.
Lets hope they were bad cops. 50 percent chance from my knowledge of California Cops, so pretty good chance they were bad cops.
really? two officers died, and you start your bull@!$%#...show some respect
I had a cop lie saying I confessed to something I didn't. Did he show respect? COPS ARE BULL@%@t
BrianB... If you see what the police have to put up with daily you might change your view of them. Lets bash the gangbanger trash and not the police.
Yeah, sure he lied. And you are innocent as the driven snow. Pathetic idiot...next time you need help, DON'T call the cops, they may lie about it.
Does that give police the right to hurt innocent people, to take away their liberty? To have them fired from their jobs? To lose their wife or husband and have their children taken after being falsely arrested? Police can and do more harm than any criminal both through mistakes and through malice.
Blah blah blah, loser. Just because you got caught doing whatever you did don't take it out on the police. Man up little boy
@BrianB-2641029
I agree. But that still seems pretty besides the point and we know nothing about these police officers from this story, other than they were shot down. And based on more of the story from the link posted by ldo, apparently while they were investigating a domestic dispute, which hardly seem to be the actions of malicious cops. Just guys doing their jobs.
I had one lie on me in court once, (a young arrogant rookie trying to put feathers in his hat) but that doesn't mean they are all bad. I've known a few bad ones and a lot of very good ones. Many more of the latter. These may very well have been a couple of the good ones. Another thing that bothers me is the fact that a scumbag got hold of a gun and used it for evil and now all the law abiding gun owners will be punished for it.
Very funny, you all show why this world is so messed up, its because you all think you know everything. You accuse innocent people you know nothing about, and you beat up the victim. You deserver the country you helped create.
Ido
What do gang bangers, drug traffickers and 2nd Amendment zealots have in common:
Answer:
The reason:
Another gun hugger gone beserk.
Susan
Tell me what about my post is untrue.
Good thing that no innocent bystanders were killed or wounded. Police work is dangerous, but not an excuse to be over zealous.
Hey BrianB...Why don't you tell us the rest of the story? You are obviously the type of person who has been taught right from wrong but chooses to do wrong because your special and you should be allowed to. Do you expect everyone here to believe that you were just minding your own business and the LEO randomly picked YOU to be the target of their attention? You are a fool! If you don't want to be the subject of LEO attention then don't give them a reason! Right, I know, you didn't do ANYTHING wrong. They just decided to pick on you for the fun of it.
Brain don't worry I live in CA unlike most of these honky blowhards on here and i know just how bad the police forces are here. Santa Cruz I would question but LA, Fresno and Oakland are without a doubt corrupt as they come. These people on here don't understand how it is in CA or if they do, they just don't pay attention.
@ twis 1.17
Please tell me what those two women in the truck were doing to attract the gunfire of the LAPD during the Dorner manhunt, that made them deserve to get shot ? You don't need to be doing anything wrong to gain their attention. All you have to be is in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I don't care how many cops are bad vs. good. One bad apple spoils the bunch when they cover for each other and get out of jailtime because of their croonies in the force. Its bad enough every family member of theirs can break the traffic laws and get away with it(then brag), cops do the same thing. I see them all the time not using blinkers, park in red zones to go to liquor stores, speeding over 10mph, using cell phones and texting blah blah. They racially profile but lucky i am a white female. Also in my area, a number of officers have been suspected and or caught on camera beating bums and innocent people. One is one too many as far as I am concerned.
ashp...1.18
Its not just CA. Massachusetts has a lot of corrupt police forces also! Ever seen The Departed? Our police are so corrupt they made a hit movie about it. Mass state police are really really bad!
Don,
I wasn't responding to your comment; actually, I agree with what you said.
Hello onlyyou...you are truly a simpleton aren't you? This is a post about two LEO who were murdered in the line of duty in SANTA CRUZ, and the "a" hole that is saying that they were probably bad cops and deserved it. Go beat you Dorner drum somewhere else.
O ya definately have. I was shocked to find out that some parts of Pennsylvania have shockingly high incidences of police brutality. It was terrifying to watch youtube videos of this to review the evidence. All across the nation police are getting away with doing things like this and it makes me sick. Not only that, it is truly scary. The cops can pull you over and search you for anything now and make up an excuse as to why they pulled you over. I used to think you needed permission to search a car but all they need is just cause. I don't have anything in my car but i do have rights under the constitution... or so I thought.
No twis you are the idiot. YOU SAID "If you don't want to be the subject of LEO attention then don't give them a reason!" I was pointing out that these women didn't "give them a reason" and still attracted the police attention and got shot!
THIS PROVES YOUR STATEMENT THAT I PUT IN QUOTES UNTRUE! AND MAKES YOU A BLIND SIMPLETON!
onlyyou...you really should read the news before you post. The women were driving their truck, which resembled the truck that Dorner was last seen driving, and they were driving in the dark with their lights OFF near a house where a person identified as a target in Dorners rambling manifesto lived. The police were absolutely wrong, but that was the situation. By the way, your last sentences in all caps is about as childish as it can get.
ashp- When you find a bad apple you throw it out. To throw out the bunch is wasteful.
Two California police officers shot? There was a "barrage" of gun-fire? How can that be, in the state of Gun Control -- where extremely few people are allowed to carry LOADED guns and "clips" are limited to only SEVEN rounds of ammo?
Oh, right, there was someone ILLEGALLY shooting a gun that they likely ILLEGALLY owned because they had committed a CRIME some time in the past.
Also twis.
Let me just say that I Didn't say that I agreed that the cops were probably corrupt, (I haven't read enough on these circumstances to make that judgement yet) all I said was your statement about not giving them a reason wasn't true.
As for corruption in law enforcement, it is rampant! And after recent run-ins with A few on my own I don't trust, call or like any of them and that includes the ones in my family! They will lie to enhance their case and gain status or promotions without caring weather or not they screw up an innocent persons life! JUST AS LONG AS THEY GET THEIR PROMOTION AND A BIGGER PAYCHECK!
People die in wars. And there's been a war on people for years now, conducted by the police.
These aren't the first, and wont be the last.
When will the war end?
twis....
The truck wasn't even the same color or make! They were women not a man! They weren't even the same race! The only resemblance was.....
They were in a truck!
And even if they were driving the exact same truck in the same color and make,(which they weren't) the cops still shot first and asked questions later! And even still, THEY STILL WERENT DOING ANYTHING TO DESERVE TO GET SHOT! SO YOUR STATEMENT STILL RINGS UNTRUE
that's it, that's all and there aint no more to it than that!
onlyyou..do what you must! I couldn't care less. If you really do have LEO in your family, I feel sorry for them. You must have some awesome family get together's. I agree that there are corrupt LEO's just like all of our politicians, but that doesn't mean we should say that the two officers killed deserved it. I'm sure that you are no different than anyone else when it comes to getting a bigger paycheck. Last thing and then I am leaving, what have you done for your country, city or state LATELY?
Twis must be a cop. He sounds really pissed! Panties are bunched right now!To the above comment about the women in the truck with the LAPD, the truck was a completely different color and brand and i can even tell car brands apart and i am no cop. You may follow someone that resembles the perps but you can't shoot a truck that LOOKS to be the perps. There is a major difference between the two and if you can't see that i can't help.
And to the apple comment above: Of course you can't throw EVERYONE out but the problem lies in that they throw very few out because of how crooked everything has gotten. It's not about a couple of bad cops, it is about systematic unlawful behavior amongst those paid to fight for what is right and legal and to protect us. It is about cover-ups and citizens rights being shi* on.
I'd post and make a fool out of myself, but then I realized so many others were already doing that. Time to kick back, grab some popcorn and watch the same ole rhetoric flow from both sides. One of you at least come up with something new, rather than what's been spammed in the last 47,000 articles on the 'vine.
ashp- If you have a particular grievance you have every right to contact your states attorney generals office and file your complaint. However, the majority of officers I have known and worked with have a genuine desire to help their communities become a better place. Until you walk a mile in their shoes dealing with the worst of society every working day you will have little understanding of what LEO's go through. True their are some that go bad, that is true in every profession everywhere.
Dowhatisright: Yes but the difference being that Cops that are crooked can ruin your life. It is annoying to get the extremely rude worker when at the grocerey store but they can't mess up your life. Whether it be a small or large infraction, it still can take a toll. I have had no run ins except a speeding tic but I know many spoiled brat children of police officers and also know people that have gotten screwed over in some way. What is worse than all of this is that there can be video evidence of cops beating the sh*t out of perps or innocents and be completely exonerated. There is much video evidence on youtube. Many people posting these videos will give you detailed links to the case and you can see for yourself. Talk about scary!
You woke up this morning
Got yourself a gun,
Mama always said you'd be
The Chosen One.
Ban handguns.
Brian B.
Something tells me you have a rap sheet 10 feet long. This explains your fk'd up attitude.
You're the kind that hates cops..................until you need one. Hypocryte...
Really!? I mean "REALLY?! OMG man.....
It comedy hour again!
And "NOW"......Center stage people..........Give a warm welcome tooooooo..........................
I could say I'm shocked by the comments by some on here, but I'm not. Lack of knowledge or any sign of thought process is more the norm on these comment pages then the exception.
Of course there are crooked cops. There have been since the job was invented centuries ago. Big city cops in particular. LA for example, since it was in the news so much lately, has 10,000 sworn officers on the job. !0,000 human beings, not 10,000 flawless machines. Add to that the fact departments aren't allowed to hire the best people possible. They have quota percentages for minorities and women that they have to maintain.
The facts are todays law enforcment officer is the best educated, best trained, and most professional officer in the history of this country. Anyone with any knowledge of history would want nothing to do with the officers in years past and how they went about their jobs.
People shouldn't tolerate poor performance from their officers and should strive to have the best possible, but bad cops will always be there and have always been there and it won't change until the human element is removed and machines do the job.
Regardless the wide brush that is being used to paint all officers is as stupid as some of the officers they complain about.
Don #1.13, Gang-bangers and drug dealers could care less about registration as they generally get their weapons from "unofficial" sources.
They could care less about a high cap magazine ban as they have multiple outside sources up to and including south of the border.
They could care less about an assault weapons ban for all the above reasons.
You can ban and confiscate all you want and you won't even slow the criminals down one bit. Their specialty is circumventing the law, not adhering to it.
Most gun owners are more concerned with criminal individuals and/or gangs and realize that being outgunned can be lethal to he that comes in second. I own firearms, and like the 80-100 million other owners, they are a threat to no one that is not an immediate threat to me or my family.
Another huge, huge win for the NRA and gun nuts everywhere. Two dead cops, put two notches on your gun belt cowboys and girls. You should be so proud of your fellow shooters.
John,
Gotta blame it on everyone but the person who did the shooting. Dummy...
Proud is correct. Proud not to be like you and your posse...
Get off your ass and do something about it rather than keep spewing your crap...
All bark and no bite. Just like the rest of you dummies...
Would you anti-gun zealots just give it a rest for one day....sheesh!
RIP to the 2 LEOs who lost their lives in the line of duty and to the families they've left behind!
Yes sir John to the rescue for rational discussion
Really,now....who cares about these deaths ? There are, on an average day in the USA, ...88 killings by gunfire...no one cares, give it a break...go see a movie where you can see lots more violence...
Stand your ground, protect your God given gun rights, eat your apple pie,call your mom and oil your guns...yeehaw. No one cares.
ashp
Brain don't worry I live in CA unlike most of these honky blowhards on here and i know just how bad the police forces are here. Santa Cruz I would question but LA, Fresno and Oakland are without a doubt corrupt as they come. These people on here don't understand how it is in CA or if they do, they just don't pay attention.
perhaps they have a common goal. If you where a corrupt person whom lived outside of the law say selling drugs, pimping, or other unlawful past times, who would you be afraid of?? the cops who you have paid off?? probably not! the unarmed citizen?? they have no guns so they can be controlled so not them either! The armed citizen?? YOU bet.
Now with that assumed let me see politicians are corrupt?? Or on the take as well as the police?? who should they be afraid of?? the same people!
How can this be fixed? ask your senator from California !!!
If only there were laws against killing people. Maybe this wouldn't have happened.
So you're saying the multiple shootings, multiple victims at elementary schools, middle schools, theaters, high schools, etc..., are all gang-banger related? Why won't the cops tell us that.
I read last night that CA has the strictness guns laws of any state. The issue they say is happening is that neighboring states with lesser laws, are allowing the flow of guns to come into CA. So here is the thing. Are those states experiencing the same level of gun violence? The answer appears to be NO. So where the guns come from does not necessarily mean that is where the violence is. So why is it that CA has so much violence and apparently significant issues within the police department?
If you have mental issues it is extremely costly to get any help. Perhaps we should start there. Actually healthcare in the US is extremely expensive and thus limits the help. Unfortunately we have never addressed how to bring down costs.
I would argue this as well. The actual high rate of unemployment which is a lot higher than our government admits to, means many have idle time to lose track of reality. I am a real believer that mundane chores and a job keep humans feeling worthwhile. Millions are waking up every day with noting much to do except get into trouble especially if prone to begin with.
BTW, in Syria, the country getting killed by their own government, has 8 guns per 100 people. You can see they have been hindered from protecting themselves from others and now from their government. The US has 88 guns per 100 people. While it seems inconceivable that our government could turn into a Syria, I imagine nobody sees a Hilter coming.
Here are some details notably absent from the NBC story:
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_22674808/breaking-2-officers-1-suspect-shot-santa-cruz
So Goulet was convicted on crimes punishable in excess of one year in jail. Doesn't that make him a Felon? Not only did he obtain three weapons, he registered them!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/kelly-thomas-beating-video_n_1499771.html its not only guns
Regardless of any law no law abiding citizen who owns guns will register their guns and they will not and I repeat not give there guns away to the police or government. They will refuse and they will have a bigger problem because guns and ammo will be sold in the black market. So you anti gun nuts will have more gun problems because not only will law abiding citizens not abide by the law neither will unlawful citizens who will be able to purchase guns in a black market that will just grow.
Ashley I call your data bull@!$%#..
To BrianB-2641029 - you protest too much! I think you aren't as innocent as you say you are. If ever you need a cop, remember what you said and JUST HANDLE THE SITUATION YOURSELF! I am sure you will have no problem doing this because you know everything!
To rocky-2318920 - There is corruption everywhere; in every walk of life, in EVERY profession. Acceptable, no. But this is life since the beginning of time. All we can do is live OUR lives with integrity and stand up to the corruption whenever we can. In the meantime, MOVE! Nothing says you have to stay in CA!
Mental health continues to be ignored by Obama and Bloomberg. They are also ignoring the gang problems. They are too busy blaming guns and harping on the need to take them away.
It's going to get worse because of Obama and Bloomberg's ignorance.
The guy at Aurora, the guy at Virginia Tech, the guy at Sandy Hook, all are tied to mental health.
Open your eyes and see it people. Do not listen to Obama & Bloomberg's rants.
To all those bashing the police:
What exactly is your solution to your heartaches here? Ban the police? Do away with all law enforcement? Fire them all and start over? If you are going to make vile statements like:
Make a reasonable argument or keep your hatred to yourselves.
Ashley 69,
You have a serious stutter sweetie pie. I seen your exact same post on any and all gun related stories.
Have a nice ddddddddday...
Here is a thought, Its not the Marines or the Army that We the People need to fear, it's the LEO's, not only do they shoot and kill many citizens everyfrigging day, (granted most probably ask for it, but cops shoot and kill alot of people everyday.) but the costs, for all the police, jailers, prisons and courts, it all costs more money everyday than the criminals could possibly steal in a year. They are all a perverse bunch, and it's not the seldom "bad apple" cop, it is more like the seldom honest cop. I call it committing treason in the name of pubic safety with a union patch on their arms. And I can here ya now, blah, blah, blah. I won't call 911, come around me and mine to do harm, and you will be shot, I won't be waiting 20 minutes for help.
tdj1:
"..not only will law abiding citizens not abide by the law..."
You lost me.
@Creek Dog
Exactly. Same stuff from the same people.
Dammit, I need more popcorn. Or maybe a pretzel...
My condolences to the slain officers families, friends and co-workers.
As far as I am concerned the whole "Copz be badz" argument is null and void. Just a few bad ones as a direct reflection of society. NOT STATING THESE SLAIN OFFICERS WERE BAD OR GOOD, I can't state that as I didn't know them.
I am sorry innocent bystanders get hurt(Addressing some of the comments). Until we have a culpable society we will need cops. Cops will have to do their jobs. People WILL get hurt in this process. It is called; REALITY. Try running 40 yards with 20 pounds of gear on then acquire/lead a target and get back to me.
And just to fire up on the gun thing; If I am not mistaken the first firearm ever made was to kill another human. And it was called a "hand cannon".
I am a gun owner;1 for target, 2 for hunting and have no need for semi auto anything because my first shot is usually the kill. If someone else needs the option for semi auto, then so be it.
The gun is a tool, a tool of death. If guns were never invented we would have made some other tool of death. Humans are good like that. I mean you people do know the explorers Lewis and Clark had an AIR RIFLE that could take down large game and kill humans right?
ANOTHER wonderful example of a "RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER" "PROTECTING THEIR RIGHT" to kill anyone they want because "they were not loved by their parents or some other stupid rational. My only hope is gun lovers DIE from bullet wounds themselves!!!!!
Leaving many comments collapsed, derails.
First off no one holds a gun to someones head and says 'Become a cop or die" they CHOOSE the job. Thats nothing special.They claim they are protecting our safety, sorry but thats the Military's job, they are protecting our freedom, Cops do everything they to take that freedom away.
Secondly there were TWO shootings by the cops during the donner chase, and neither one had the same make and model vehicle, and also the cops had announced days BEFORE the shootings that they FOUND his truck burned up, so how could the cops think he somehow stole it from impound and restored it overnight to be driving it around again? They just wanted a reason to shoot up the city, the Cops were creaming in their pants to have that chance.
Thirdly, how manty OTHER mothers and fathers lost people that same day to violence? Sorry, but 2 cops are NOT as special as you like to make them sound, supposedly ALL life is sacred.
If only these police officers had guns they could have saved their lives. Because gun owners say that is the solution even though it looks like the shooter was a legal gun owner. There is another report of a gandmother killing two children and herself...another confirmed legal gun owner. The NRA and gun owners say what we need is more gun owners. Really? More gun owners=More chances of more gun owners going berserk!~
Gun owners and the NRA want us to completely ignore the role of guns in all these SHOOTINGS!~ Blame the community, mental health (even though most of these shooters don't have a history of mental problems), blame the shooters, blame the victims, blame the Pope but for God's sake do not blame the innanimate objects which are weapons designed to kill people. I wonder how we could ignore the roles of guns in all these SHOOTINGS when all the victims died due to bulletholes in their bodies.
How many more have to die before Congress borrow some courage and do something about guns? The right to life superceeds the right to bear arms. People are more important than guns. Most of these shootings are being committed by legal gun owners. There is no way to deny that fact anymore. The solution won't work unless it address that fact.
Ray,
just reading between the lines here, but let me know if i come close to the 10 ring with what your post means.
so you are advocating that you wish for more gun control legislation to help curb the violence in the United States....while at the same time wishing great bodily harm and violence on those that choose to exercise their 2nd amendment rights and own firearms. FLIPPIN' BRILLIANT!!!!
so, to do away with violence you are suggesting that you wish others would meet with a violent end to bring upon us this glorious utopia where we ride unicorns who cry diamonds for everyone, drink the joy of fuzzy bunny laughter on rays of golden sunshine daily, and free phones for all (as long as their opinons align with your ideology...of course).
GOOD JOB RAY4AUSA
btw.....the suspect in the article above wasn't a responsible gun owner that was just protecting their rights. please, for the love of whatever the hell you worship, go and educate yourself
Emery,
LEO's are people too....just saying
LEO's have no constitutional duty to protect you or me. the duty to protect ones self falls to ones self. remember, when seconds count.....LEO's are minutes away.....and the military is even further away
Cayeres,
No, these shootings are not being committed by legal gun owners. this suspect should have never been able to legally own a firearm....least not in the state of CA. do some research before shooting (no pun intended) your mouth off on things you don't know about.
a firearm is a tool that has to be wielded by a person in order to function. the firearm doesn't jump up from the table and decide to start discharging at passers-by for no good reason. so naturally, YES, i blame the person wielded the firearm for the for causing the distruction. should we ban other inanimate objects that are used to kill as well? lets go after swords, crossbows, axes, bows, knives, bats, sticks and stones. each one of those inanimate objects at one point in human history was designed to kill other humans with.
please go educate yourself
Chris from Yucaipa,
I wanted to give you 20 "vote up arrows" for your comment... but they won't let us do that here.
Brian...not all cops are bad, use your common sense. Cops saved my ass a couple of times, and came to me when I called several times. I have also known of a couple that should never have taken the job...they were, and I imagine still are, @!$%#s. You need to remember that these men and women put their lives out on the line every day, so please, get over it for a moment and show the respect that is due.
Prays to the families of the officers. They died doing what they believed in and should be honored accordingly. That said their is something we can all do to reduce the occurrences of events like this.
We can all be a part of the resurgence of traditional values.
Honor, courage, integrity, trustworthiness, respect, humility, empathy, compassion and love are all noble values. Values such as these will reduce violence. These values can not be legislated. No law will change the hearts of humans.
As parents, brothers, sisters, friends, neighbors, etc we can all be examples of these values and teach others the importance of these values. The ills of a community are the responsibility of each and every member of that community. When the members of a community take on this responsibility, great things happen.
This is a solution that will reduce murders and other crimes. It has been proven effective century after century in countless places.
Just because they were cops doesn't mean they had those values. Lots of bad cops rape, coerce, murder, do drugs and every other crime and indecent act. Its because of fools like you that so many cops are bad, because no one questions them. they are left to police themselves which only guarantees corruption. Stop being a moron.
What you say is true but unfortunately I think that we, as a people, have passed the point of no return with respect to morals. When a man breaks into another man's house, gets killed while robbing the house, and the crooks family rushes to the scene to scream at the homeowner that he is evil because he shot a man who was breaking in with intent to harm then you know our system is messed up.
I saw a video of a woman in California recently. She was instructing women on how to milk the system in order to live without working by getting money from the government. She said that California was the place to be because you get the most money for the least effort there.
When good, honest, generous, law abiding citizens are told by the government and the media that they are the problem then we can't go back.
When uneducated people in uniforms stop a 3 year old spinabifida patient in a wheelchair at airport security and subject the child to an invasive search then.....GAME OVER.
Brian- You have absolutely zero evidence showing that these LEO's were bad. Statements like the one you just made only serve to show your own foolishness and lack of insight. You are so wrapped up in yourself that you can not see the simple and undeniable truth in my post.
Brian's another hater who I am sure has a story about how he was mistreated by cops...
adc- Their are places where this is happening and it is working. The media dose not report on it because it dose not sell as well as death and sex. The beauty of it is that we do not need the government to do this for us. It is also not easy. It requires that one take a deep look into themselves. It will also require a great deal of resolve as some will try to resist. However, I believe that it is the best long term answer to the ills of modern society.
Yeah, I had a cop lie because he was so sure I was guilty that he thought it was ok to break the rules and nearly ruin my life. Said I confessed to something when I didn't confess. Ignored all the evidence. I wasn't convicted, but I was embarrassed, had to pay thousands in bail and legal fees. Being innocent doesn't mean you don't pay, I paid thousands of dollars and suffering for a bad cop.
You all are just ignorant of the harm police do, regardless of the good they do.
You all are haters of the truth, because I spoke the truth and you collapse my comment. What does that say about you all? Who's the real hater?
You wouldn't know the truth because you a lying criminal. Get over yourself and shut up. Troll somewhere else loser
Dow, you are very right in terms of how we are treating ourselves and our country. I think the opportunity is for us to change it. The trouble is it begins near the top in our country. The continual hate just bleeds down in this country. Many people seem to relish it. But it is becoming endemic to people everywhere. When congress quits the BS and takes the blame we might be able to start recovering, but not till we hear a better story. We have been a great country, many of us spent some time in Wars we didn't choose to be in and all for the freedom our country promises for all citizens. It is unfortunate that many in the public eye are portraying the hate we all feel through that freedom. We have that opportunity to regain our stature but not until we can work things out without more hate.
Scott-
I at least know what happened, I know if that cop was lying or if I'm lying. You don't even know my case and you assume things. Who is the real person full of themselves. You are like people claiming to be Psychic, to say you know all even though you have never seen anything.
I thank god I'm not a fool like you.
Brian, if what you say is true, you have an open and shut case of wrongful arrest and malfeasance on the part of the cop you say lied. So, what happened? A lot of attorneys would be chomping at the bit to take something like that to court.
Interesting points ..
Just how did the police in California get there reputation as pseudo Gestapo?
Generally speaking.. if an institute acts in an honorable fashion ... they are considered honorable .
Okay. Good golly. Two cops get killed. It aint the first time this has happened. CHILL. Bang. Your dead. End of discussion.
Tired of hypocrits- There was no record of it, they said I confessed off camera. Part of why the case never went to trial. But at the same time, how do I proove something without evidence, there was none, get it?
In order to stop the hate one must first relieve one self of desire. I do not mean the desire to make more money or own a new vehicle. Rather I am referring to the desire to see the world in your own terms or to fit the world into a box that fits your own preconceptions. Once this is done you can see the truth of the world around you and work towards real solutions.
For all of you debating on the morality of the LEO's or telling your story of bad cops your comments have nothing to do with my post. Please take those comments to a more appropriate place.
Dowhatsright-
You're right in part, yes, I have hate towards police, most people would if they were innocent. While many guilty just accept that they got caught, but when youa re innocent it eats at you every day. You lose your innocence of knowing that those who are suppose to protect you have made you a victim and could have even destroyed your life, made you a felon where you couldn't get a job.
But what you don't get, is your own words. its not just ordinary people that need to become more honest and honorable, its cops that need to become more honest and honorable.
These two men may have been good or bad, I don't know, it was bad for me to say, but I guarantee you, there have been and there will be more cops die and most of it will be because of bad cops that take away the honor, the respect. I don't honor cops anymore, because I know they are humans just like any criminal or any good person. Just being a cop doesn't make them honorable and you should question that. Give cops a reason to make themselves more honorable by being held accountable. Right now cops are more likely to be criminals because no one holds them to account. Most police, police themselves. I reported things to the chief of his department and his chief looked the other way. There was no outside investigative department. Every place I went told me to report it to the chief of the department that victimized me.
Brian your tripe becomes tiresome. What? They had no evidence and neither did you??
Brian- Honor is a very personal attribute. No one but yourself can take your honor away from you. At most they can only deface you. Because honor is a personal and individual attribute it is unwarranted to project the dishonor of one on to the rest of the community. When you do that you take away opportunities you may have had to build positive relationships others.
From what we know at this time the two officers in the above story lost their lives attempting to bring in violent criminals. Their deaths were noble and honorable until proven otherwise.
Brian.. your experience with the police is neither unusual or uncommon... many many people in this country are getting the same treatment by police and police agencies. The Department of Homeland Security has been involved in the desensitizing of police forces to prepare them for the civil unrest they are convinced is coming. The general attitude of superiority and upper class mentality of badged services has spiraled out of control.
And.. not to mention the clear mental health issues among officers should bring attention to the abuses the public is enduring on an escalating scale that Herr Himmler would be proud of.
adc~that video is of a "recording artist" parodying what she grew up with in the 90's right before Clinton passed the health care reform. "I saw a video of a woman in California recently" does not constitute reality.
Don97524 I'll tell you what's untrue about your post. The gangbangers and gun traffickers could care less about background checks, limits on magazine size or assault weapon bans because they don't affect them. Only rational, law abiding citizens are affected. The criminals don't go through any legal channels to obtain weapons. Why do you want to trample on my right? Stop demonizing gun owners we are not the enemy. I don't understand how quickly people are willing to trash the document that is the backbone of our country.
Brian,
go tell your sob story to someone that cares. would you like some cheese with that whine? Boohoo!!!!, so what, you got wronged by a LEO that attempted to take the law into his own hands. there are corrupt folks in all walks of life, in all professions, in every city and every state. stop playing the victim!
do you hate all bankers because a few have stolen money before?
do you hate all doctors because a few done some unethical things?
do you hate all Postal carriers because you mail has been late before?
do you hate all airline pilots because of few have been caught flying and been drunk before?
do you hate you phone because your battery has died before?
stop playing the victim and stop with all the crying
Brian,
You might want to review the article again...the detective was a female. I can't really take you seriously unless you take the time to read the entire article and get just the basic facts correct.
wasneverhere, there's a huge difference between those professions and cops, all cops cover for each other and therefore they are all complicit in the abuse. i've had cops mistreat me as well and have never ran into one that was worth a damn. they are all power crazed a holes. please tell me not to call them when i'm in trouble, i already don't cause they treat victims like criminals alot of the time.
Hater,
so you are saying that out of over 900,000 sworn LEO's in the US that all of them.....every single last one of them, are power crazed A-holes, look out for only themselves, and that none of them are worth a damn.
sorry that you have such a pessimistic view of life.
no, i'm saying they look out for each other above abiding the law which makes them all criminals in my book. i'm not pessimistic about life, just pigs.
Amazing. I can't believe my original post turned into this. I was talking about people regardless of profession taking up and passing on solid values that will make a difference in society.
If you have been wronged by LE than take your complaint where it belongs, your states attorney generals office. Sitting here complaining about the problems of your life is the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish. Take the responsibility I suggested seriously, than get up and do something positive with your time.
The world seems to be spiraling out of control.
Let me off.
I want to live in one of Newt's Moon Bases.
The media attention to all the bad things that happen is misleading many people. The fact is, according to the FBI, that violent crime has been going down every year over the last ten years. The number of people who die from gun related injuries has also been decreasing every year over the last ten. Gun ownership has been rising every year over the last ten years. Despite what the media would have you think things are getting better. The U.S. dose not even make the top10 list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.
A heck of a lot of folks in the United States of America have lost their morals.
Once a country completely loses it's morals, then the country is lost forever.
Yep, "spiraling out of control" could be directed at Massachusetts. Heck, teenagers can now get a gender transformation AT SCHOOL without their parents knowledge.
Same sex marriage, strike down DOMA, legalize pot, strike down the Constitution, flood the court system, spending out of control, enslave folks with Social Welfare, use drones on American citizens, track Americans on the Internet, stroll on the beach naked......the Progressive agenda is working.
Sheeesh, I am acting like an Obama administration official.....shotgunning everything.
@Blutowski... Thanks for your post, much wisdom interlaced with humor. I know that you're new to newsvine, so I say welcome to you. Keep up your wit and wisdom, thanks again!
No you don't. The rent is too damn high...
I can tell that BrianB-2641029 is telling the truth and all those of you harassing him....well I would like to have your badge numbers.
BrianB-2641029 please email me at geneforte@badgerflats.com. I would like to tell your side of the story.
Make sure you list it under fairy tales!!!
Isn't this when the Left comes in and says a ban on High capacity magazines and "Assault rifles" would have prevented this?
Oh wait, its California, they already have those bans in place, for years now, some of the toughest gun laws in the Nation.
Ban all guns outright!
Zero empirical evidence has been produced to show that gun bans do anything to reduce violent crime or murder.
Binkie response:
My post #1.2.
Ban guns and shoot the idiots that own them!
Perpetuate: You are an idiot.
Perpetuate, if all guns are banned, as you suggest they should be, then what will you use to shoot the owners of the guns? Are you not advocating the use of the very items you are wanting to cease to exist?
Perpetuate: Contribute something useful to the discussion or STFU!
David Noah
Actually, no. This is when the left asks why people like you share the same opinions about guns as drug traffickers, gang bangers and survivalists. All of you want assault weapons. All of you want large capacity ammunition magazines and all of you oppose universal background checks for gun purchases. I guess you know that you are judged by the company you keep.
"don" says we're "judged by the company you keep". The Almighty government he bows down to has assault weapons with high capacity magazines, , enough NUCLEAR weapons to destroy the world, secret spy organizations that are not accountable to the People, assassins, the right to murder American citizens without prosecution, torture chambers, etc., etc. Didn't Hitler have universal gun registration to identify gun owners? Don't gangs extort money by threats of violence (would people give huge portions of their hard earned money to the government if there was no threat of imprisonment by the government if they didn't?). The "Left" are elitist Pigs (see Orwell's Animal Farm) who hate the idea that the "common man" should have the "tools of political power" (see Mao), but want a Police State controlled by elitist "intellectuals" in which the People are seen as inferiors to the agents of the government and not as Free Men, but children who cannot be trusted with sharp objects. POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
no assault weapon (defense weapon) was used .He owned 2 hand guns, like most liberals you deny the facts , most firearm deaths are from handguns. f.b.i facts on murders 2011 .6220 deaths due to all handguns, 323 due to all rifles, 356 due to shotguns, 1694 due to knives, 496 due to blunt objects(clubs, hammers),726 due to hands ,feet
Dong:
You clueless but you don't let that stop you from stating your opinion. Gotta admire that, I guess.
Once again, dozens (if not hundreds) of disparaging comments about 'liberals', yet not a single disparaging use of the word 'conservative'. Spin as you will, the numbers are the numbers.
Mr. Binkie
As I said earlier banning guns opens the black market for criminals and believe me there will be more people able to buy guns on the black market than at gun shops and they wont have guns with serial numbers. Believe me all the law abiding citizens who own guns will not submit to the law of registration and will not surrender their guns... This will be more of a problem than anything and gun shootouts with police will be more common and there will be more police deaths if they try to enforce this.
Not a lot of facts, like why the police officers were at the location; serving a warrant or what? Knowing Santa Cruz, I'd suspect drugs are involved.
I heard on the news a couple of hours ago that they were conducting a sexual assault investigation, not a domestic violence as the above article mentions.
Here are a few things that are proven to reduce crime.
Crackdowns on gangs, Community policing, Adherence to the broken windows theory, Expanding American industry, Proper parenting skills and Good people in a community standing up and saying they will not tolerate gangs and crime in their community.
Why do gangs exist? And once the "gang" becomes the governing body of an area or community how does one go about expelling them?
Gangs exist because society allows them to.
ex- That is where Community policing and Community Action come into play. The good people outnumber the bad. When the muster the courage the gang can be dispelled from the community. When the gang tags the good people clean it up. When the gang is dealing drugs they can call the police, take video on their phone for evidence, testify in court etc.
Gangs like bullies are generally cowardly when challenged properly and will move on. This is known as "displacement" in Criminal Justice terms.
Dowhatisright, you forgot the most important element to resist gang intimidation: an armed populace willing to fight to protect their home turf. Gangs thrive where the residents are unarmed and/or are afraid to fight back. You'll not find gangs where good people have guns and the Heart to use them against human predators.
Steven- I thought that was implied in my statement.
I thought policeman were suppose to wear bullet proof vests. Either they were not wearing them or the criminal had a high caliber weapon and blew a hole large enough for the policemen to bleed out. It is also possible they had a lower caliber weapon and was a good enough shot to hit them in the head.
When drug dealing criminals like Pratt get out on a 50,000 dollar bail in Texas you know that our Justice system is in the crapper. No wonder the criminals keep committing crimes its a bloody revolving door and its the innocent and the police who are playing the price.
Honest Americans have the right to defend themselves against all enemies foreign or domestic and that includes their own govt or the criminals the govt is allowing to prey upon us. It is time to stop feeding these animals in prison then setting them free after a quickly served sentence. It is time for either the death penalty for drug dealers and those who murder innocent lives. That 50,000 a year plus to keep these thugs in prison would be better spent on programs to get to the at risk kids before they become criminals. If mama is a crack head and daddy a drug dealer they do not have the right to raise their children. Children's rights should be protected and they have the right to be raised by responsible honest parents. Children are not owned by their parents. If a person brings a child into the world then they have a responsibility to provide for them not raise them to be criminals.
@If a person brings a child into the world then they have a responsibility to provide for them not raise them to be criminals.
They also must realize that parenting is a verb. Parenting takes active participation in the development of the child to ensure the child grows up with values that foster the betterment of society. To ensure that the child understands the meaning and importance of the values the parents want the child to expound as an adult.
@Dowhat...Some parents do all that you say and their child still grows into a criminal. Either a drug user or a drug seller, a thief, a rapist, a burglar, a robber, a purse-snatcher, you name the crime, it happens, it is human nature. Nature vs. Nurture has never been proven. Some people are just EVIL.
chief- That is true. Evil will always be a part of the world. However, I would bet the farm that if my philosophy we to become common practice the incidences of evil in society would drop dramatically.
Ok, Enough bs about registrations etc . The 10th amendment to the constitution effectively block the force submission to the NICS dabase by each state of mentally challenged individuals. So, stop the bs about forcing mandatory background checks. It won't happen unless we have a constitutional convention where that can be changed. The changes pushed by the laughing hyena Biden and the Whitehouse won't come to fruition. Each state has to pass it's own law regarding when to put mentally challenge individuals on the NICS database. Without that, the NICS database is pretty much useless. Let's up the ante and place individuals who commit crimes with weapons in prison for 20 years or more. If you are a gang banger, you get life in prison. NO judge is allowed to reduce this sentence. EVER!! The real problem in this nation is not guns, it is the liberal idea that someone can be saved from the life they've chosen. Swift, sure and final punishment is the only way to guarantee that individuals will be help responsible for their decisions and will not be repeat offenders. You kill while committing a crime, you will be executed - swiftly and surely- period.
rich:
"..it is the liberal idea that someone can be saved from the life they've chosen."
Wherever did you get such an idea? I'm a lifelong liberal, and I believe in capital punishment. "If you can't play by the neighborhood rules, you can't play in my neighborhood." Simple, final.
Your, and other's grandiose sweeping generalizations are boorish, and reek of ignorance and bigotry.
"it is the liberal idea." Good grief.
You kill an cop-death sentence should be automatic.
And what should the Fullerton police get.?
Citations for .. Bravery.
What about the shooting in New York were six by standards were hit by the Police?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting
A raise.
Who can forget Dorner. I bet the woman that had her car riddled with bullets by the police will never forget.
P.S. this story was posted on NBC for all of 20 Minutes before they pulled it because it didn't help their cause.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html
Because it was too damn difficult to run the license plates?
Better hope you don't have a car that matches the description of someone there on a man hunt for, they tend to shoot first and ask questions later.
david:
According to the LA County Sheriff's decades-long survey of 'confrontation' incidents, a 'hit ratio' for highly trained, highly experienced police officers is somewhat less than 50%.
What will happen when highly agitated, utterly inexperienced and marginally, at best, trained civilians draw down and open fire in the street, mall, theater, school? According to this report, the 'hit ratio' would be somewhere south of 7% - 93% of the rounds would hit something, someone other than the intended target.
All fantasies aside, this has all the empirical predictions of a disaster - the "Dirty Harry League" mentality notwithstanding.
When House Speaker and his party are arguing the budget, they have put on hold other bills, such as gun control and stopping violence against women. Somehow, one may wonder why the Congress in 2012 has been so slow to pass bills, and it is because of the continual arguing and delaying to pass the other bills.
For what happens today, it is another sad day of the failure of passing the gun control in the Congress. Condolences and prayers go to the fallen police's family and friends.
Billie- CA already has all the gun control that Obama and Biden have called for and it has done nothing to stop tragic events like this. We need to be focused on the roots of the problem rather than fixating on the implements criminals use.
Billie, it's pretty early to be assuming that proposed gun laws would have made a difference here. The laws here in CA already include most of the restrictions, and we don't know that the shooter had any kind of diagnosed mental illness, or anything about how he obtained the weapon(s).
And by the way, it takes two parties to argue.
Billie:
What good would it do for the House to send up ANY bills to the Senate when Harry Reid has already told us that he will let NO bills from the House EVER reach the floor of the Senate for discussion? I think we can assume this includes Gun bills, budget bills, violence prevention bills--- he said ALL BILLS SENT UP BY THE HOUSE!
My condolences to the family and friends of the two officers that gave their life in the line of duty.
Who cares if the guns were registered or not? Keep the red herring arguments going. The NRA couldn't be happier.
How about discussing why there are so many guns on our streets and the FACT that just about anyone who wants one can get one...somehow?
No one wants to talk about that.
Drugs are illegal.
Perhaps you would like to talk about the tons of illegal drugs on the streets and the fact that Americas demand for illegal drugs has caused the death of over 60,000 people in Mexico to support America's insatiable demand for illegal drugs?
I doubt very much that the criminal is an NRA member. The NRA had nothing to do with what the criminal did.
There are 300,000,000+ guns owned by 80,000,000+ owners, only a very small percentage of guns are ever used in crimes and they are usually stolen from their owners by CRIMINALS!!
The US government says they don't have the time or manpower to track down and send 13,000,000 illegals packing, but they want to take 300,000,000+ weapons away from 80,000,000+ owners?
@yakfitguy....It has been said that "participating in a gun buyback because you believe that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you believe that your neighbors have too many children.
deen:
A valid argument would be a whole lot more interesting. Who are the "they" in your assumption? I know of no one in authority, either in the government or the public sector, that condones what you've suggested. If there actually are such people, they are an extremely unrealistic fraction of the population. A valid argument does, by definition, contain at least some truth.
That's because the drugs are illegal David. Nice try at deflection, but that doesn't work with me.
Never said the guy was an NRA member Deen and Chief. I also never said I advocated collecting them all. However, the NRA is group keeping this country from having a rational discussion on the subject.
What I did do was state an indisputable fact, and as usual, the gun nuts refuse to take that point on.
Two Good Cops lost their lives yesterday.... At least they were not in the CROOKED LAPD!!!! Rest in Peace......
brianb=criminal
This community has had a lot of violent crime lately. It's a sanctuary city, that has liberal views on drug use and abuse and welcomes and supports lots of homeless populations. I guess decades of looking the other way have finally caught up here.
Very sorry for the death of two officers, they are about the only ones trying to holding things together here.
@Mr. Binkie: Ban guns outright? --Great idea!! Yeah right!! If you ban guns we will have anarchy in 5 years or less. I have been following what has been going on in Australia the last year or so. They banned guns about 10 or 15 years ago. During the last year they are having AR 15 type rifles and handguns being smuggled into Sydney in record numbers! And crime is up almost 50% in the last 5 years.
In the wilds there are two types of animals; predators, and prey. If we ban guns outright, we will have two types of people; PREDATORS and PREY!!!
You'll get through it, Chief, just like the families of victims murdered by cops do!
How's all that gun control working for ya California? Apparently someone forgot to tell the CRIMINALS...
Gun control flat out DOESN'T WORK!!!
Of course gun control works! How are you supposed to hit your target if you can't control your gun? USE BOTH HANDS WHILE SENDING LEAD DOWN RANGE. That is effective gun control.
Ban semi-automatic weapons and high capacity magazines.
HOOAH!!! I hope they don't come after my M1 Carbine and ammo. 11C5L
@takenaka,
How would that have prevented the death of these two officers?
Please, engage your brain BEFORE engaging your mouth.
Yep its kinda strange,some people just wont adhere to the law,regardless of how many are on the books.
Guns don't have a mind, IDIOT! They don't control who pulls the trigger!
I'd like to know why the person fired at the police, and was the person they shot the same person who fired at the police?
You're making me dizzy. Who's on first? What's on second?
Sometimes I think our system of justice has become a worthless joke.Everyone keeps talking about resetting our country to a better level. Maybe we should start by creating for profit prisons that would compete with the third world wallmart suppliers.It might take a few generations,but with the right planning and governance it would be a good start .
Perhaps you meant "our system of government has become a worthless joke."
LordPyrinc, It's not the system of government that is the joke, it's the scum on both sides of the aisle that have put Party and Power over country that has become the joke. Unfortunately, no one is laughing.
My thoughts are with the families and friends of the fallen officers, as well as with their fellow officers. Please support each other in any way you can. May each of you find peace, in your own way.
For Billie and others who would ban guns:
They tried to ban whisky, how effective was that ?
They have currently banned illicit drugs: how is that working out ??
I somehow feel that banning is not the cure-all.
@Alaska Al....You are almost right, but the 2nd is a constitutional right that SHALL NOT be infringed, as per, Congress shall make no law. All of our rights need to be defended, unless we want tyranny.
Ban handguns.
Ban takenaka.
Takenaka, you are an idoit plain and simple.
crown:
"..you are an idoit (sic).." It's become pandemic - genetics, environment, rage? Who knows?
Perhaps they were dirty cops. This story gives no information to make any clear judgments... Were the shooters known to those cops?
Had these cops had any previous discipline issues?
What is the socio-ethno background of the cops / shooters?
I am sure they there is much more here then is being reported by the sleezes at msn
Mitzy,
Congratulations on the dumbest post of the day...keep posting so you don't get beat out...BrianB is trying to catch up and takenaka is closing in.
Mitzy,
and what does the background of either the cops or the suspect have to do with this? these stories aren't here for you to pass judgment one way or the other. so pipe the %&@* down
2 LEO's lost their life in the line of duty. the suspect was also shot in another shoot-out with LEO's about 30 mins later. both LEO's are leaving behind loved ones that will grieve their loses. my hearts and prayers to their family and friends.
wasneverhere,
Good reply to Mitzy's nonsensical ravings...unfortunately, you can't reason with such a ridiculous post or poster.
If Obama-BOY and his FLUNKIES EVER put a BAN on FIREARMS in this Country. I HOPE there is a NEW CIVIL WAR that takes place....I think it will take that to get this CROOKED Country back on the right track again......
@tommy-2158520..... You are just the type of idiot that the government will use to provoke an "incident" to start a media frenzy, and declare martial law. Even if you think yourself in the right, shut up and keep quiet.
Tommy- I would hope it would never come to that. While we should stand ready to defend our rights is dose not do any good to provoke the fight.
It is easy to see the truth when you can see through the lies. Author unknown.
tommy:
" I HOPE there is a NEW CIVIL WAR that takes place..." Just what we need, career, gun toting hysterics. Expect a visit from the Federal Marshal's - not to worry, you won't see them coming.
"Amateur anarchists are the first to fall." Not sure about serial capitalization. Even less sure of your 8 'likes'.
Hazards of the job unfortunately. When you're chasing people that don't want to be caught, it will happen.
In other news, Budweiser is being accused of diluting their beer with H2O. Watered down beer? Now that's a Goddamn national tragedy right there!!!!!!! The European beverage company that bought out Anheuser a few years back and now waters down beer should be nuked out of existence for such a dastardly deed!
I like turtles...............................
Too F$#%^& Funny Patrol Leader! The turtle part I mean...
@RLTW,,, We are crying in St.Louis as we knew that we would be sold out by IN-BEV. I want in on the law suit and payout, but we know that we will only get coupons for a case or two of Budweiser and the lawyers will get rich.
@RLTW,,, may I add that right after the IN-BEV take-over, I noticed a "taste change" in the Budweiser product and contacted the company to complain about it. I was "thanked for my concern" and later received a T-shirt for my efforts. BTW,, T was cheap with low quality graphics. Never worn, I saved for prosperity.
IN-BEV? That's the name of the company? Sounds like something you would do with your COs wife who happened to be named Beverly. I can just hear it now, " 1SG, where are you? " Oh, I'm over at the captains house, IN BEV, since he's in the field and won't be back in garrison for two weeks. "
RLTW,
In "today's Army", Beverly might just BE the captain.
Logic4U,
With all the Hollywood B.S. aside, I can't picture a female captain being CO of a Ranger company. Hell, I can't even picture a female butter bar lewie being an infantry platoon leader! The few women that I have heard of that tried out for Infantry officer positions DORed because they could not keep up with the curriculum or physical demands, and these were officers, ones who are supposed to set the example, lead from the front. Can you even imagine if they tried RASP or Ranger School itself?
Hollywood's "GI Jane" is a mythical creature that was invented to separate movie goers from their money.