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Subscribe to RSSThe results of a months-long investigation into the reversal of post-traumatic stress disorder diagnoses at Madigan Army Medical Center are being kept confidential.
Earlier this month, Army Secretary John McHugh told reporters at Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state that the Madigan findings would not be disclosed.
Days later, the Army denied Freedom of Information Act requests for documents related to the controversy made by three Seattle-area news organizations.
George Wright, an Army spokesman at the Pentagon, told NBC News that “concerns brought up in the Madigan matter will be addressed” in a separate forthcoming report by the Army's Task Force on Behavioral Health.
Wright said he had not viewed that document, which is an Army-wide review of mental health diagnoses as far back as 2001, and could not comment on what information it would include about the Madigan inquiry.
The Madigan investigation, completed last fall, sought to determine whether or not a team of forensic psychiatrists inappropriately changed soldiers’ PTSD diagnoses, perhaps to save the federal government money.
In a memo obtained last year by the Seattle Times, a Madigan Army Medical Center psychiatrist gave a presentation to colleagues in September 2011 in which he noted that a soldier medically retired with a PTSD diagnosis would collect $1.5 million in disability payments over his or her lifetime. The psychiatrist warned his colleagues against “rubber stamping” a PTSD diagnosis.
Around the same time, several soldiers screened at Madigan complained that their PTSD diagnoses had been switched to conditions like anxiety disorder, which could have affected their medical retirement rating and the amount of their disability payments.
A subsequent review of 431 Madigan cases — some of which had been overturned — led to PTSD diagnoses for 150 soldiers by last October, according to the office of Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash.
Murray pushed for the investigation into the PTSD diagnoses at Madigan — an Army hospital in Tacoma, Wash., that serves soldiers stationed at Joint Base Lewis-McChord — but has yet to see its findings.
The Madigan investigation was reported by the Seattle Times in January 2012. In May, McHugh announced the Army-wide review, which is said to contain 24 findings and 47 recommendations, and now according to Wright, details related to Madigan. Murray is scheduled to be briefed on the review in the next few weeks, Matt McAlvanah, a spokesman for the senator, told NBC News.
Last year, Seattle-area news organizations asked to see documents related to the inquiry through Freedom of Information Act requests.
Request denied
Patricia Murphy, a reporter at KUOW Puget Sound Public Radio, said the Army denied the station’s attempts to obtain information and subsequently denied an appeal. The Army described the Madigan documents as “pre-decisional,” a legal privilege extended to documents that influence new rules and regulations. In a letter to the station, the Army said this designation is meant to “protect the quality of agency decisions by encouraging frank and open discussions of agency policy.”
Murphy said she understood that the documents might contain sensitive government and patient information, but was hopeful the Army could strike a balance for transparency. “We don’t care about the names,” Murphy told NBC News. “We care about the reasons they were doing this and whether or not this was a cultural issue at Madigan.”
The Army has said that Madigan was the only Army hospital to employ a team of forensic psychiatrists who vetted PTSD diagnoses and said it had stopped that practice.
Last February, it announced that the hospital’s commander, Col. Dallas Homas, was reassigned during the inquiry. The Army reinstated Homas several months later after finding that he did not "exert any undue influence on PTSD diagnoses." The Army provided that document to KUOW in response to a FOIA request.
The Army also issued new guidelines for PTSD screening last April, discouraging staff from using testing to identify patients who might be "malingering" or faking their symptoms, an approach some soldiers claimed was utilized at Madigan.
Despite these corrective actions, critics of the decision to withhold the Madigan findings say that transparency is key to restoring trust in the Army’s ability to accurately diagnosis and treat PTSD.
Tom Tarantino, chief policy director of the advocacy organization Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America and a former Army captain, said that keeping the report confidential reflected a “shocking amount of tone deafness.”
“I don’t want anybody to release information that violates HIPAA, privacy or endangers national security, but there has to be some sort of accountability,” Tarantino said. He also fears that withholding the findings sends the wrong signal to soldiers who worry that the problems at Madigan could be widespread and might not seek mental health care as a result.
“You have to actually show patterns of behavior and convince people that you’re willing to change.”
Wright said the Army wanted to make public its report on behavioral health “as soon as possible,” but that it was weighing the feasibility of the recommendations and how to implement them.
“We expect that work to be completed shortly,” he said, “and then we will be able to share not only the findings, but the way ahead.”
Rebecca Ruiz is a reporter based in the Bay Area.
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I'm a combat veteran of Viet Nam but fortunately didn't come home with ptsd. Despite my protests that my combat experiences were far more likely to give ptsd to the VC, a friend of mine from high school suggested that I should apply for "government benefits" using that as an excuse. A good Christian, he thinks I'm nuts because, unlike him, I don't have a "personal relationship" with his imaginary friend, Jesus. But my main point is that despite the readiness of so many people commenting here to damn the denial of any benefits to vets claiming ptsd, false claims are as real a possibility as ptsd itself.
It is my understanding that ptsd is difficult to diagnose with any certainty. There is a considerable body of research to indicate that it is characterized by hyperactivity in the amygdala, a structure in the brain which key to the activation of the fight/flight response among other things. I suspect that in the not-too-distant future cognitive science will nail the diagnosis. At such time a re-examination of the claimants which reveals that their amygdala functions normally I wonder if the taxpayer might not be justifiable in demanding their money back.
But then, I also wonder if the members of the congress and executive branch (including the CIA) shouldn't be held liable when history shows that they lied in their justification for sending people to kill and die.
citizen-xx;i think they are working on that,but ponder this.if,say 'another' long war,rather when 'another' long war,evan a short one dare say comes around again,an they do the smart thing all around like you suggest,who are they going to get to fight it? most things today are true digitol,computers,way we build stuff,have tcxo oscilloaters for the best referances period.the brain is analog,meaning,like a old tube radio it can be made to do alot of stuff beyond design capabilities,but its only 'human' in that sense.think in thatway an you will 'see' an answer maybe.
As testing advances are made and the brain further understood, there will be some sort of test to determine how effective certain parts of the brain are at handling stress.
Some people see unfazed by stress while others are not capable of dealing with it. There is a divide between the two types and those folks who are trained in the function of the mind will some day have an answer. It is a matter of time.
Absolutely disgraceful to treat our service men and woman in this fashion. I served multiple tours in Vietnam and now at 70 feeling the full effects of that duty. I was smart enough to keep copies of all of my medical and service records as proof of treatment and location back then. Even with this documentation the VA still sees fit to deny some of my medical claims. For today's service person it is even worse. We (the government) makes a contract with us (the service person) to care for us if we are injured on the job. Then they will not honor that contract. That is civilly criminal. If that was done by a private contractor you can be assured that the government would side with the individual and not the corporation. Enough said.
DO NOT let your children join the present day military. This administration does not give a damn about anyone in the military in fact when they get out they are considered enemies of the government so how is that for loyalty !
The President has done more for our Vets than any other President--all 13 GI Bills submitted to the House have been voted down the latest Vets Jobs Bill, passed the Senate but voted down in the House, Ryan's marvelous budget called for a 13% VA funding cut--so tell me what political party could care less for our military personnel? Do some research before blanket statement condemning current administration, might be surprised.
Bob-2089091, the only enamies I see he is people like you. I'm a Vietnam vet, Desert Sheild/Storm also I didn't like people like you back than and don't have a better view point of you today. If you don't appreciate what my Patriotic Azz has done for you than freaking leave My Country. If the rest of you Trolls don't like what I say you don't have to let the door hit on the Azz either.
well, with a very few exceptions, great comments here people, more please, In dealing and exposing this very critical medical problem we have seen some! "fakes and flakes" I will admit that, and yes, in some instances they use what we are trying to teach to try and cash in, but the faker incidence versus the real is a very small number[3% or so],..We have also seen that those who are already abusing the "system" are always the first to steal medical data and try and use it for gain while ignoring real treatments as if they were treated?, they would likely be exposed as the fakes and slimey creatures they most surely are,..The real topic is EFFECTIVE TREATMENTS, what are they? how do they work? and how can we make them effective and! secure at the same time?..There are entire criminal orginisations that specialise in identifying medical vulnerabilities for exploitation, we have ten years in this area, not guessing, this is a very real fact!!,..One rather astonishing factor was the number of OC infiltrators inside the system[VA etc] who are there for the sole reason of connecting victim and criminal and taking an huge slice of their deserved!! benifits.This can be said to be rampant, in the USA and especially!! in Canada,[psychopathy pays a very large part in these "networks" and as such? can be used as a tool! for correcting these crimes, use it!],The money is all very well, but it is saving lives first! then dealing with the crims etc, that should be the priority,..so, Thanks to all who are thinking and if possible? acting! and speaking out on this, your efforts are paying dividends in lives saved,..more please!.BTW, those who will walk up and say "I have PTSD" before any real screening happens? are most likely wrong,[they might? but they might not and have NO WAY! of knowing, at all]..it doesnt work that way at all,The family,friends, doctors etc will know[if they are educated in this], but the sufferer, will not,..and that can be usefull information for the right people,..use it!!..btw, lets say it is going to cost X billion $ to ID and treat these victims?,, how much is it going to cost if they go UNTREATED?,..trillions of $$, you bet!!, the costs are offloaded, again! and the victims is left hanging, again!, and that is one of the real problems with quoting $ figures,..
We cant have anything that makes war look bad, if that happened people might begin to object. If the USA wasn't in a state of perpetual war, what would biggest welfare recipient aka war industrial complex do?.
So, lets hide he report until we think the public and especially the Vets have forgotten about it. Then, after we've sanitized the information and done some cosmetic changes, we'll quietly release it, throw it out in the trash and hope no one notices. Shocking! (not).
Veterans get a hand in combat and the finger back here in America.
Sad how politicians always find money for foreign aid to terrorist nations, money for the Solyndras, corporate bail outs where the CEOs make millions running bankrupt companies, and welfare money for the lazy.
I personally work for the VA system. Love my job and love serving soldiers! This is my way of serving my country as I am a military reject (due to asthma). But that is another story . . .
Quite honestly I encourage soldiers to get whatever they canfrom the system. Personally I would rather someone who has served his country get taxpayer money than someone who sits on their behind doing nothing. And if someone has to stretch the truth a little to ensure that their health needs and basic living needs are covered then so be it. Anyone who has served to retirement age in peace time and those who have served in war deserve at least that.
And yes I realize what I posted is controversial, however I am a taxpayer and should have some say in where my money goes. This is just my way of accomplishing.
The Obama Administration has become the most secretive in all of history. The people are fed lies from Obama and his minions and the news media tends to support lies. Are all liberals immoral and corrupt barbarians?
Baloney, do some research before making unsubstantiated charges, what lies has the President told regarding Vets, what about the latest Vets Job Bill voted down by House Republicans, or the other 13 GI Bills getting a resounding No from the GOP/Baggers--your hatred is getting in the way of rational thinking--check it out and see who has the best interests of our Military Personnel at the forefront.
Apparently you've never heard of the Nixon Administration? How about the FDR administration? Wow, you need a thorough lesson in US Government history.
The only post traumatic stress for these veterans is having to return and live in an Obama world.
Well Darrell, interesting you should say something like this considering the fact W sent our people to Iraq to be maimed and killed, then come home to fight the cockroaches for bed space at Walter Reed, remember that one. How about being sent to war with inadequately protected Humvees, or no body armor, or exposed to atomic waste dust. So its the President's world really, GOP/Baggers who vote down every GI Bill, Ryan's Budget called for a 13% slash in VA funding, or the proposals to modify TriCare and ChampVA, or do away with Colas for benefits--misplace and misinformed, don't accept everything that is whispered, rumored as absolute fact because your dislike for the President fogs the facts.
Well I tell you what skyparrot, it doesn't help when Napolitano accuses them of being future terrorists because they believe in god, country and patriotism, or when you throw openly gay people in service with them, or when Obummer cuts and intends to cut their VA Benefits and make them pay out of their own pockets for their care and expenses, after serving and being wounded and the fact Obummer will not come to aid of Americans being killed in Libya even though a strike force could have rescued the ambassador and the commanders relieved of command when they said they were going any way, or when Obummer visits the troops, no weapons are allowed on their person in the rear areas of the combat zone or when the Marines marched in the inaugurational parade were forced to do so with the bolts removed from their M14's or when the soldiers absentee votes are not counted in the election "because they didn't arrive in time" or when Obummer says those who will be punished by the budget reduction March first will be the military and ICE/CBP instead of stopping spending on Muslim extremists in Syria and elsewhere or cutting off the free phones for the welfare scammers and the list goes on. I think it is a fair assumption to say returning to Obummers America is stressful post traumatic or otherwise and a great slap a face to our returning veterans, especially rather than address our nations issues Obummer plays golf with another idiot who cheats on his wife. You bet, I dislike the bastard! And no it does not fog the facts whatsoever! The man is a traitor to this country!
If the military released the info of how soldiers will be cast aside after they are used by the government, they will have no more recruits. This country is not worth fighting for, only the land it sits on, the government totally sucks.
Army notorious for this type of behavior--how many years did the effects of Agent Orange become recognized for the killer and maimer it was? We send our folks to fight for us and then upon return ignored and shoved to the side. Promises unhonored, adequate care sparse and ssometimes shoddy and downright dangerous. Disability claims reduced and denied, ayear or more to process, meanwhile vets in limbo, waiting for benefits--can't work have to rely on food stamps and other public assistance--how hard is it see a disability if one has no legs or arms, blind, head traumas--should be fast track claims processing for those vets instead of red tape bs. Hopefully Hagel will have some impact on the entrenched red tape pushers.
At least for now there is public pressure for the DOD to get with the program and no more hiding a very real pressing need to help our Service Men and Women. We are a military family, Father, 94 Retired USAF/ArmyAirCorp WWII and Korean War Vet, Husband 3 tours Vietnam, LRRP, 4 Purple Hearts, Son, 19 now at the Air Force Academy, Boulder--we are proud to be Americans and proud of what our family has contributed to the security and welfare of our great Nation.
While at Bethesda National Navy Hospital for neck surgury while I was on active duty. I was clued in by some of the return visitors. If you hand carry your medical records, make copies and store them in a safe location. That has served me well when dealing with the VA. As soon as I started to have issues with my health after getting out, I visited my County VA rep. They maintain copies of everything including a certified copy of my DD214. They work for the county not the VA or the DOD. You do not want to freak out on these people because of bad news because they are advocating for you. I was not ever shot at or subject to IED's. I was subjected 4 floodings, one of which left us under water for over ten hours, we were not in a submarine. The fires were no big deal.I do not claim PTSD.
I am a firm believer that before any military action they should crank up a no deferral draft and allocate funding for the VA before the first shot is fired. Having health care as an after thought is a bad idea. We have had enough experience with war and health care to have a reasonable idea on the cost of taking care of those that serve. Those funds need to be taken out of the top of the budget. With no deferrals we could see less support from those that profit most from the wars. By the way it is The National Navy Medical Center. Dain Bramage
The VA has always been a mess.
This cannot be true with the most "open and transparent" administration in history.
You give the government a blank check while you serve. They tend to keep the amount at zero once you leave. Do not expect more to be given as they do not work that way. You must fight for everything you get, all the time.
So basically, they're not supposed to try and test to see if the soldier is faking it, meaning anyone who is faking it will get a cushy disability package whether they deserve it or not. OK, I'd rather see someone faking it and get away with it than have a real victim suffer further.
But the problem is, there is in fact a well documented, effective, permanent treatment for PTSD, it's just not legal in the US, but rest assured, there are fully qualified, licensed medical professionals out there risking jail and their license to save vets. They use a drug that despite what the media seems to promte has been around for a very long time, they call it ecstasy today.
It's documented effect is in allowing soldiers to fully express everything that haunts them while in the effect of the drug which leaves people feeling warm, secure with a slight sense of euphoria, and removes inhibitions, while not inhibiting the patient's meories of the experience, the release of their demons, when the drug has worn off, they can see those demons brought to light, they no longer haunt them.
Keep in mind, this isn't a matter of simply giving a pill to a soldier and sending them off. This is a carefully controlled situation with licensed medical professionals steering the sessions, and those sessions have been 100% effective in dealing with PTSD.
Unfortunately, US drug policy, being driven by hypocrites and profiteers will never allow this treatment in the US. Big pharma doesn't want cures, they want treatments driven by marketing, usually marketing to human weakness.
we can send 60million to Syria but we cant help our vets. Lets here it ''support the troops nation''.
I'm not disputing that PTSD is real, however, I do not feel that it should be a forever disability either, as it is treatable. Additionally, I'm sorry, but there are plenty out there who are faking it and getting lifetime disability benefits. I have a cousin-in-law who is one of those, claims he falls apart and has to hide under the bed if he hears a car back fire, but goes hunting every year and also has a few hand guns that he loves shooting. He will even admit that he faked it all. By having this as a reviewable disability and requiring consistent participation in treatment, it would help to weed out those who are not legitimately suffering.
when my son got out of the Marines (Iraq/Afghanistan), he didn't claim any PTSD on his medical (although we see it) when I asked him how come he didn't claim it he said he didn't want it on his record. When I asked him ''do you have it ''? he said , ''everyone has it''.
My husband was infantry in Iraq. Patrolled door to door, was on the top of the humvee manning the machine gun on patrols. My husband won't speak much about his time there, other than a few times he had to shovel up body parts when an IED exploded, and he night his buddy died when that humvee with the gun on top flipped over, killing this friend. See, my husband had to do a different watch that night, of my husband would have been the dead man. While his war buddies cried, my husband withdrew. The US military says my husband is "fine". He is NOT. He has panic attacks. No, they aren't dramatic....but we can be at Costco doing boring stuff, then all of a sudden my husband will become anxious and sweaty and need to go to the car. Guess my hard working man is just malingering.
I called a spousal support line to get him help. He refuses to go, but his anxiety and dislike of social situations now really is taking a strain on our marriage.
PTSD is real. Just because you haven't seen it yourself doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The VA honestly wants to keep claims to as close to zero as possible.
The irony is, my husband had his shoulder dislocated 3 times while in service. It is a service connected injury. We have documentation. Our private doctor says he needs PT and possibly surgery. My husband NEVER sought help or payment for his PTSD, but he DID want his arm fixed so he could work more effectively and play ball with his son. The VA said "oh yeah, we see your arm is messed up and it is definitely service connected. We are going to rate it as 0% however. It really doesn't effect your life in any way though. The x-ray says so."
My response: So sorry VA, an x-ray cannot accurately determine the extent of damage. A decent physician would know that.
My whole point is that while YES the military IS a voluntary job, a soldier DESERVES to have his work related injuries addressed and repaired to satisfaction. It is what happens in the private sector. Our men who sacrifice much should at least be afforded that kindness. We treat our prison inmates better than our heroes.
22 a day commit suicide, but that doesn't matter to a lot of folks.
"22 a day commit suicide, but that doesn't matter to a lot of folks."
It damn well should. Absolutely sickening that it doesn't.
well congress could care less but they will send 60 million to Syria.
I went to Vietnam in 1966 . I remember the rice patties and the water buffalo the green jungles and the blue seas. I remember the Vietnamese, the viet cong, and the NVA. I remember the refugees. I remember the heat and sweat and the tears of those who survived the hostilities. The sound of helicopters both night and day, the booming of the artillery both close and far away. I remember the fear and terror when we came under fire the woomp of the motars walking in on us, the flares in the night sky, The green and red tracer bullets flying in both directions during fire fights. I remember the med evacs for the wounded and the deceased. The C rations especially the ham and lima beans, how can you forget those ham and lima beans. I remember the warm beer they used to give us and the USO shows they would put on for the troops. Mostly I remember those we lost, I know some of those listed on the wall. I have tried to forget but I cannot it will not go away. but god bless America anyway. A former Marine.
That was really beautifully written, Mike. My paternal grandfather went MIA over there. I'd like to think he'd appreciate and agree those words.
different generation,the vets from the recent fiascos see it different, and they sure as hell aren't blessing America.
My husband went to VN in 1966 also, also a Mike and also a Marine. I think he would agree with your post in many ways.
Although he told me the ham and lima beans were called ham and mother f---ers!
Ah crap! Some of these posts are really making me cry. Hang in there Marine and Semper Fi!
i know ptsd is real. i know it can be very bad on a person my question is though , why wasnt it as prevalant with ww2? or korean war? vietnam is when first started being brought up. as a sociaty did we not notice things were wrong with our ww2 vets? my grandfather served during the korean war. he came back none the different as near as family could tell. so its not a everybody thing. i just hope people get the help they deserve.
It was there in WW2, it's just that society shamed people out of admitting it. I know several WW2 vets who suffered badly. One man in the small town I grew up in, drank to try to forget. Sometimes when he was drunk enough, he'd talk about it, otherwise he never did. A friend of my father had horrible nightmares and never slept well. Another friend would thrash around in bed, hitting his wife. One time, he woke up in the middle of a nightmare and was strangling his wife. Back then, they called them Shell-shocked or that they had Battle-fatigue.
During WW2, a man could beat the hell out of his wife and children and no one said a thing. Some of that irritability and short fuse could be related to PTSD.
My grandmother told me stories of her brother, Raymond, who served in WW2 and Korea.
He became a raging alcoholic after his time in service, as well as developing a hatred of Asians and "snot nosed brats". He used to fly off the handle at children when they would not finish their dinners or complained about the meals. He would tell them stories of seeing bodies strewn about, and how the "Japs" would learn to say in english "got a cigarette?" If anyone in a trench nearby would answer, "the Japs" would throw grenades or whatever they had to blow them up.
It seemed though that the troops from WW2 were deemed "heroes". They won a war that started on our soil. They were the good guys, and came home to good economic times and good jobs.
Not so for our Iraq war veterans. This was not a justified war in the eyes of many. The job market and economy, well, let's not go there......