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Danny Johnston / AP
Arkansas Gov. Mike Beebe talks to reporters Monday, March 4, at the state Capitol in Little Rock after vetoing legislation that would have banned abortions 12 weeks into a pregnancy.
Arkansas Gov. Mike Beebe vetoed a controversial bill Monday that would have made abortions illegal after only 12 weeks, calling it "blatantly unconstitutional."
Arkansas already has one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the U.S. after the Republican-led Legislature last week overrode Beebe's veto of a similar bill that set the legal abortion threshold at 20 weeks' gestation. Most states allow abortions until the 22nd to 24th week.
That law took effect immediately. The new measure, which would be the most restrictive in the nation if the Legislature overrides Beebe's veto, wouldn't take effect until 90 days after the Legislature adjourns later this month or in early April.
The measure includes exceptions for rape and incest, medical conditions that would not allow the fetus to live long after birth, and circumstances under which delivery would significantly threaten the life of the woman.
Lawmakers need only a simple majority to override the veto.
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In a statement, Beebe, a Democrat, said the 12-week law "blatantly contradicts the United States Constitution, as interpreted by the Supreme Court."
The American Civil Liberties Union of Arkansas has already said it would sue if the law goes into effect.
Beebe noted that "outside groups" had offered to represent the state in any litigation, but he said that would "only lessen the state's own litigation costs," not eliminate them.
"Lawsuits challenging unconstitutional laws also result in the losing party — in this case, the state — being ordered to pay the costs and attorneys' fees incurred by the litigants who successfully challenge the law," he said.
Related: 40 years after Roe v. Wade, more states restricting abortion
The measure, introduced by Sen. Jason Rapert, a Republican from Conway, originally would have criminalized abortion after only six weeks, but the measure was amended in committee after other lawmakers objected.
"I'm disappointed for all of the unborn children that could have been saved in this bill, but I have faith that the 70 percent of the Legislature that voted to pass the bill will be there to override this veto," Rapert, founder of Holy Ghost Ministries, told reporters after the veto was announced, according to The Associated Press.
Leave a Comment:
wow, I would not be in his boots right now.....unconstitutional?,,,we
are here to protect the young and women....that means unborn infants...
These mothers who have had abortions wake up one day in their 40's and
cry, are in extreme pain...and never get over it...God Bless.....
Oh yeah right... sure you all are here to protect women and the young by trying to control what women do with their bodies which is unconstitutional. As for protecting the young... yeah you all may do that but only until it's not a fetus anymore then it's the child doesn't deserve any assistance cause I don't want my tax dollars going to waste.... what a friggin bunch of hypocrites republicans and conservatives are
Not sure where you get your information Hoosier, but I'm now 56 and have NEVER regretted, nor cried, nor been in extreme pain because of the abortion I had 35 years ago. All I felt was relief that a few moments of stupidity wasn't going to ruin the rest of my life.
And in order to dispel all the other anti-choice lies, I've never been suicidal, or needed mental health treatment for depression, or had breast cancer, or pre-mature or underweight baby either. My son was 8.5 lbs and 16 days overdue.
If I ever do develop breast cancer, it will have a lot more to due with my grandmother, her sister (my great-aunt) and my mother all having breast cancer after the age of 70.
Men of the World...control your penis and leave the control of MY uterus to me!
I chose you before I formed you in the womb, I set you apart before you were born. JEREMIAH 1:5 .
''we are here to protect the young and women'' abortion is murder according to these people but killing half a million Iraqi's based on lies is not? I suspect there were a few children killed in that slaughter don't you? One day americans are going to wake up and realize they belong to a civilization that was one of the most murderous in history. Put that in your prayer book.
Great...that's all we need....more Arkansasians. Why are so many of these poor, uneducated, redneck states so willing to create more poor, uneducated children?
Maybe not yet kjo31056-1 but you most surly will burn in the fires of hell on judgement day and you are cast into the pit for murdering God most precious gift to you!
So don't shrug it off as no big deal because your day will come!
isn't it the same people that believes the earth is only 6 thousand years old...Talk about uneducated:
Willy boy,
So, Republicans are hypocrites because we don’t think women should abort their child after 12 weeks, and if someone decides to have a baby than it is my responsibility to pay for that child? Whatever happened to people being responsible for themselves? You liberals think that everyone is responsible
for what others do…no self responsibility? If you can’t afford a child than don’t have sex! Typical liberal you expect the guy next door to go to work so you can sit on your head all day.
Control ? What in the heck are you talking about ? Were these women in control when they made the choice to open their legs ? In the end , the woman decides if she wants to have a man ejaculate in her. She decides to take her pants off. She decides to allow herself to go back to the guys home, or to her home. Shes the one who decides how far the intimacy goes.
Wake up and and please try to get back in to a society of the past that used to take responsibility for their own actions. Now a days, you hear from these youngsters,, its not my fault... Or try to blame someone else, or they try to find any way to get out of trouble they caused. They dont want the blame on them.
Be human beings for once, and take control of your lives.
There is more to the pro life movement than just thinking about the unborn child.
How about the safety and well being of the mother ? Does any one here care to debate on the severe short term and long term ill effects of having your child ripped out of you ? The physical , mental, social pain ..
In the end, even if it still is a womans choice to kill her child, she should be made fully aware of all dangerous effects that having an abortion could cause. It should be mandatory before she gets it done. If you hold this kind of vital information back, i think its a blatant violation of well being and safety of our women.
Does earth age , have any relevance what so ever to a woman and childs well being ?
Also not all religious people are pro life.. Please take time to look up atheist pro life movement groups.. there are plenty out there. Talking about earth age doesnt pertain to this thread what so ever, so please stop derailing.
Crowbar7...I think a FORGIVING God will understand. I believe you stand a better chance of "burning in hell" based on your passing judgment, ROMANS 2:1
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
God looks at all SINS equally, no one is worse than another!
Hoosier, I have known my share of women who have had abortions, and what they all felt was relief.
Hoosier, WHERE are you getting your info? Didn't bother me any. . . .
@ The Word says:
I chose you before I formed you in the womb, I set you apart before you were born. JEREMIAH 1:5 .
Remember, we're talking about SECULAR law here; you know, the one that legally, actually applies in our nation, state, county, city, etc. So believe and practice whatever you want, so long as you don't violate anyone's rights; just don't expect the government to enforce your ideas of what you think God says.
Cassandra, that's mighty hypocritical for them to feel relief while removing the ability for the child to feel anything.
The thing is, Bill, the embryo or fetus is not a "child" or even an "unborn child." You might as well say that is an unborn senator or congressman...except that then no one would object to the abortion.
It should be illegal to perform an abortion after 20 weeks, UNLESS the life of the mother is in danger and for the rare cases where the fetus dies but is not expelled.. Also the procedure used in the "late term" abortion is the most horrific and inhumane act I have ever heard of.... the fetus is pulled out by the feet a large syringe is inserted into the base of it's skull and it brains are suctioned out, then the skull is crushed to make it easier to pull out... it sounds like something that was thought up in a Nazi death camp.
Yes, Cassandra, it is a child. Read the "Unborn Victims of Violence Act" to see that the law defines a member of the human race in the womb at ANY stage of development as a "child in-utero" and a "child"
sorry, anti-abortionists, even though I would PERSONALLY be against an abortion, I WOULD NOT PRESUME to judge what decisions others make.
and FYI illegal abortions were at roughly 1 million per year BEFORE roe v wade, so making abortion legal has had only a small effect on the number of abortions overall.
just because you want to force this country into your religious pigeonhole
live your life as you believe god told you to and everything will be fine, DON"T force others to live as YOU think "god told them to"
blondeness032,
I hear the procedure used in illigal abortions was pretty horrific as well.
Mark,
Please cite evidence for your bogus claim if you can. And even if that number were true (and it most certainly isn't even close), the average for the past decade is 1.5 million legal per year. 50% increases are substantial.
Let the child live the life they were given
It never ceases to amaze me that Liberals will fight rabidly for the murder of infants but defend the right to life of a murderer and rapist.
What's the difference between abortion and leaving children in the snow for the wolves?
Don't give me religion. I'm not religious. I'm agnostic.
Don't ask me what we should be doing with the poor children from the poverty stricken parents. Those people should be choosing not to get pregnant. We can mandate that people buy health insurance; why can we not mandate that people be able to afford kids before they get pregnant? An IUD would solve many problems, even on a voluntary basis.
Don't give me the old line about birth control not working. There have been 55 million abortions and counting since Roe v Wade. It is not mathematically possible for there to have been that many failed condoms. Properly used, a birth control regimen is nearly perfect.
Abortion is the most shameful thing about our society since slavery. Ironic isn't it? The party that voted for slavery is the same one voting for abortion and welfare slavery.
With exceptions made for rape, incest, and the health of the incubator, there is no valid argument for abortion. It is the termination of an innocent life. It is evil.
Why should the person who is proven to make bad choices be the only one choosing the fate of an innocent life? Remember, exceptions would be made for people who had no choice (rape, incest, etc.). You Liberals are fond of telling me that my health decisions must be made for me. You tell me that I don't know how to choose my own health insurance for my family. So why, when an innocent life comes into the picture, do we now talk about choice?
So many of you wail. Why, oh why must conservative minded people make such an issue of this? Why is this so much more important than any other issue? Show me another issue where an innocent life not only can be, but will be ended by the whim of another? Please explain to me why anyone should be able to end a human life just because they felt like it. There is no other issue that compares to this.
Hate me. I know you will. I take it as a compliment. If I'm going to pick sides, I pick the kids.
Oh Bill...that is Laci and Conner's Law, for a pregnant woman AND child in utero are killed," because previously no homicide was recognized, in most cases. It has no bearing in this conversation.
Carol, it most certainly does. It establishes the unborn as a SEPARATE member of our species with SEPARATE rights from the mother. And the law clearly says that it applies even if the mother suffers no harm.
I am a young woman. I have this young man and when I am around him he blows my socks off. We were both caught off guard last night and, without protection, equally took responsibility to have unprotected sex. We had no intention of getting pregnant. Now I find that I am in fact pregnant and do not want a child in my life at this time. I am now trying to take responsibility for my previous lapse. Why in the world won't you let me be responsible? I am the one that is pregnant, not you. If it is murder, I will be the murderer, not you. In addition, god hold us responsible only for our own sins, not the sins of everyone else. Again, I'm trying to be responsible-- let me be responsible!
bill the cat, actually the estimates were as high as 1.2 million and none lower than 800,000 per year, I just took the middle.
the 1.2 million came from an old news clip from just before the rvw decision
live your own life as you think god wants you to, stop trying to force your idea of god on everyone else
A side issue -- hypocrisy!
Lawyers for a catholic church medical center that is being sued by a man who list his wife and unborn twins, recently told a court that a fetus is not a child until it is born. It appears that when it comes to corporations, whether a church corporation or another type, doctrine goes out the window when it come to money -- money trumps doctrine!!! I wonder how they are going to explain this to god????
No, Bill, it merely gives a prosecutor the ability to charge people in CAPITAL CRIMES, which did not exist before Lacy and Connor's Law. It was not created to give teatards, such as yourself, an argument in this situation.
Hoosier Your comment:
"These mothers who have had abortions wake up one day in their 40's and
cry, are in extreme pain...and never get over it'."
How many women do you know who have had abortions? Only the ones that the Right To Life people use to get their agenda across? Your statement is false, and you need to read research and statistics done and posted by objective medical studies, not from biased sites that only choose to recognize the opinions of those who side with them. Hormonal changes that occur following abortion (look what hormonal changes do to a woman during her menstruation) can lead to mild depression which abates when the hormones return to pre-pregnancy state. The research shows that 5-30% of women experience what is considered negative feelings, but this takes into account many other factors besides guilt and despair. Clinical depression (look up the definition) rarely occurs in women who had no pre-existing depression. I know numerous women who have had abortions who felt no regret; I know of only one personally (if you consider FB friends to be personal friends) who now is pro-life.
Crowbar7
Self-righteousness (also called sanctimoniousness, sententiousness, and holier-than-thou attitudes[1]) is a feeling or display of (usually smug) moral superiority[2] derived from a sense that one's beliefs, actions, or affiliations are of greater virtue than those of the average person.
Bill the Cat....Everyone is entiled to their opinion...and nobody has the right to foist their opinion on anybody else. My opinion is that a fetus, in the first few months, is not a child...it is only the potential to become a child. However, that is my opinion, and my opinion only. I no more have a right to impose my opinion on your daughter as law than you do to impose your opinion on my daughter.
Teatard, Carol? Ever look at the demographics of the Tea Party? By the way, the "Ar" in my moniker stands for Arkansas, and I am educated and female. For those of you pro-death advocates, of course it is absolutely legal to kill your unborn infant if you choose, and if you do choose, it is on you. In the course of a lifetime, of course your convenience is more important than the life of an innocent child. If you - Charles - become overly excited and cannot control yourself until you get a condom, the very least a child should be willing to do is die for your pleasure. How thoughtless otherwise.
For you "Men" who are ... advocating ? for abortion, you must either feel these women cannot speak for themselves and need your big, manly selves to protect them, or you feel as if they're too stupid to speak for themselves. Which is it?
Jerseyshoremarie - I have only known one woman who had an abortion - one who told me about it. Her parents strongly encouraged her to do this; back when we were kids in high school, and her dad flew her to New York. At that time abortions were not done in Arkansas. Not only did she regret it, as soon as she was able she left home and proceeded to have six children. She has regretted that abortion for decades.
Listen here moronic pro-life zealots who just don't get it... just like pro-gun people say banning guns will have no effect... do you honestly think banning abortions or making it illegal to get abortions is going to have any effect aside from making it so a woman has to go the illegal more dangerous route? If you ban abortions or make them illegal it will do absolutely nothing you idiots... cause if a woman doesn't want to have the baby there are many many ways to put an end to the pregnancy... miscarriage being one of them. All it takes is a nice little bump on the tummy and bye bye baby... or there's excessive drinking while pregnant, or excessive drug taking and so on. Leave women to handle themselves. They have the right to do with their body as they please. Take your overly religious zealot agenda and shove it. It's real funny how you all are so up in arms about defending something that is more of a parasite than a life till it gets to the human form and has a heartbeat, yet second those very same women need assistance to take care of the kid you forced them to have you want to turn your backs on them
As for you arslp I'm not advocating for anything I'm defending a woman's constitutional right to do with her body as she pleases. It's her body not yours. Stop acting like you all are so friggin perfect. It's called nobody is perfect and everyone makes mistakes in life. Also it's not that I feel these women can't speak for themselves, it's more you all are like a bunch of fanatics trying to pass judgement on a woman just cause she gets an abortion which typically is none of your d@mn business.
The Right to Life IS guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. Where does it guarantee the right to an abortion that trumps the Right to LIFE.
Parasite?
I am a female; and agree with you that it is a woman's body, and her right to choose. The fact is, when you have sex you have a choice. You can have sex in a manner that doesn't cause pregnancy or be irresponsible. Now, bring up rape and incest. Then do the real math, and realize that is less is the reason for less than 3% of abortions.
The child has it's own body. The child that I carried in my body didn't even have my blood type. So, take care of the other 97% of abortions by being responsible human beings. Being pro-death is your legal right, but killing the innocent is wrong.
arslp....in a perfect world, maybe. I'm referring to that controlling yourself part you were referencing. Most abortions happen to teenage women. That's because teenagers, both male and female, really don't have the where-with-all to make rational decisions. You expect the same idiots that drunkenly swing from 8 story balconies to stop and think about the consequences of unprotected sex?? Not very smart of you, for being so educated. And, come on....pro-death advocates? You make it seem as if it is an enjoyable thing that these kids have to go through. Believe what you want to believe, but leave your opinion (and it is just your opinion) to yourself.
Earth to Will: When "will" (pun intended) you lefties ever learn that name-calling is NO proof of intellectual ability nor does it win arguments. Anyway, heer is why all clinically normal human beings are pro-life: whether one believes in God or not, the unborn represent the most valuable resource any nation can ever possess, namely, it’s future, and what natural resource could ever be more worthy of legal protection? Moreover, why do you think the left is so insistent on maintaining legal abortion? A "big-hearted" concern for women's rights? That's just a sop they tell to keep their useful idiots in line. The real reason is far more sinister: if the left can convince a population to accept the deaths of innocent unborn children, that population will more easily accept the mass exterminations of "oppressors" and other enemies of their revolutions!!
OldKingBlog....paranoid much? You should take your own advice and refrain from the name calling...I see you casually used the word idiots, which in most peoples opinion could be construed as name calling. Hypocrite!
Stevefoo
That is my first amendment right - freedom of speech - so, no... I won't keep my opinion to myself. And you do not have the demographics of abortion right at all.
Pro-death - in favor of death. Pro-life advocates are called anti-choice, but the choice is made at the time of sex. Your argument that people cannot or will not control themselves is a sad indictment about humanity; however, when infanticide is legislated for the convenience of the irresponsible, it isn't surprising. Legal does not make it morally right. Adoption is always an option and far more kind.
ARSLP-I too, am from Arkansas, I too, am highly educated, yes, I said TEATARDS. That term hes to do with blindly following the Tea Party, not your IQ! Though I am beginning to question. BTW, my name is Carol Anne, if you are going to address me, please use the whole thing.
Aggie-345886 LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, the phrase is meant to exemplify the "unalienable rights" with which all human beings are endowed for the protection of which they institute governments.
What is so funny is they have no problem going to Walmart and buying stuff made in China when the women there are forced to have abortions. I guess those women and babies are not important because they are not Americans. Talk about seeing nothing but their own feelings. I do not see them at Walmart not wanting to buy cheap products not worrying about the people that are slave labor, children labor, or women forced to abort.
arslp...that is true. The first amendment gives you the right to say any stupid thing that you would like. But, it is just your opinion and not fact. And, yes, I believe I do have the demographics correct....I might have to expand it to 16 - 22 year olds, but my statement is still correct. Maybe you were a genius at 22, but that is rare. They still do stupid things at that age.
So women don't think twice about abortion? So obviously it's not that 'hard descision that no one likes' that the pro-abortionist claim that it is?
How many times have I heard that bs. 'No one likes abortion', 'it's a very hard decision that women don't make lightly'.
But according to you people who have in your own words 'only felt relieved' it wasn't a very hard decision at all. And because you weren't responsible before you had sex (because women's choices are the only one's that matter in reproduction) you decided to kill another human.(it is human even if you don't want to call it a person).
How about some of you take some responsiblity for yourselves before you get pregnant. This isn't 1973, you have birth control options they could only dream of, yet the abortion rates are roughly the same.
BJ....Because kids are just as stupid now as in 1973.
I had an abortion in college. I have never regretted it, never cried in my soup about it. Only felt immense relief after the procedure was over, I was no longer pregnant and could get on with my life. By the way, we were being responsible. But the condom broke and the morning after pill wasn't readily available back then.
I weighed all of my options: adoption, abortion or becoming a parent. But I made the choice to abort because it was the best choice for ME. You antis have no say in my medical care. And BTW, before you start with the "I don't want my money paying for your irresponsibility", know this. Because of the Hyde Amendment, federal funding is not allowed for abortions. My boyfriend and I paid for it out of pocket. And choosing to have an abortion IS taking responsibility.
Oh, and for all those who say the fetus isn't a part of the woman's body, you are ignorant. I used to work at the Medical Examiner's office and we had a woman, a decedent who, at 7 months pregnant, committed suicide. The family wanted the fetus removed and buried separately but the pathologist wouldn't do it because as he said, the fetus was a part of the woman's body when she died. And he was right.
Marmaduke: Your post right off the bat disgusted me and wreaked of misogynist undertones... YOur comment about women "spreading their legs" etc fails to include the other responsible party that pulled down his pants and inserted his penis into this women's vagina and humped her for a couple of minutes (2 tops in my experience.) Your disgusting statement can be counter argued with my disgusting statement about the mans role in reproduction.
Anyways on to more important subject matter besides this douche. I am the first to say abortion is immoral and the fetus is living. I am also the first to say we cannot afford all of the unwanted children as as society. We cannot afford ANY MORE PEOPLE HERE ESPECIALLY ONES THAT WOULD LIVE OFF GOVT ASSISTANCE FOR YEARS! Isn't that all you conservatives care about, the bottom line when it comes to your wallet? As Carlin said best: You @!$%#s care about the unborn but can give two @!$%#s about the baby when its born. Every chance you get you call for legislation hindering govt spending for low income people despite your statistically overwhelming "christian" (you are not) affiliation. "Give to ceasar what is ceasars" straight out of jesus mouth. Why do you choose to ignore statements like this in the bible but aggressively follow others like in the case of gay rights? Hypocrites much? THe fact is birth control fails and i should know, my daughter was a wonderful accident while i was on birth control pills. Why don't you all worry about yourselves and stop being a bunch of hypocrites? You all don't like obama and his govt interference yet you SCREAM for the govt to side with you and legislate reproductive rights! WTF is wrong with you guys? Don't you realize the unwanted children will be a burden to your pocketbook!! GASP yes your POCKETBOOK! all you care about is money. Don't believe me? Lets go ahead and ban abortions... then lets watch your jaws drop as social program spending increases dramatically because women HAVE to have the baby they didn't watch. That is of course if they didn't already try to abort it themselves by gruesome means just like they did before abortion was legal and then wind up in the ER and cost the taxpayers MORE MONEY since they are typically low income and cannot afford the ER. Then lets watch the multitude of children grow up in terrible and unloving, possibly abusive homes and then be turned loose in society to enter in the workforce. Hmmmm Sounds like a dumbass conservative plan to me. Congrats guys you truly are the weakest link.
Why is it all on the women? It takes two to tango. Tell the guys to keep their raging hormones in check and their penis in their pants. DNA testing can be used to prove parentage and force support from the male. When that happens, then we can talk about FORCING women to carry to term against their will.
For the ladies who said "I never regret my abortion", give me a break. If you're going lie about your pain at least make it a good one. Abortion not only hurts you but the child you've could of have. In last year alone, there's has been over 400 abortion clinic shut down because killing a child was deemed unconstitutional yet atheist president obama broken the hype amendment which prohibits the government to use tax payer dollars without the consent of the state. Eventually, this year we will shut down over 1000 babies mills.
Caroleann,I vote that your comment is the best one.Concise,direct and right on.
Also i notice a bunch of whiny men on this blog and it sickens me! so men have no part in this?? Men don't stick their di*ks in vaginas and do their part?? It's up to women to not get pregnant! well fu*k you you must not have paid attention in sex-ed. O wait you probably are a bunch of backwood folks given your education level. As a matter of fact it is MEN that walk out on their children and families! 9 times out of 10 MEN walk out and leave their children and then you all have the balls to blame women! Why don't you tell all your knuckle dragging neanderthal friends to take care of THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES! FInally until YOU carry a living being in YOUR body and give up YOUR LIFE for 9 months Do not even attempt to act like you understand a thing! After all, isn't it you that say the women are the responsible party in this? if so you already gave up your right to reproductive leglislation.
JPC, what makes you think every woman who's had an abortion secretly regrets it? The women I know don't, as do most women who have had abortions. They only felt relief after the pregnancy was ended. There are some women who already have underlying emotional issues that may feel regret and pain. They also may been coerced into making the decision and that's not right.
But I am glad I had the choice. I would make the same choice if I had it to do over again. I was able to finish college and I have a great job and a wonderful husband. I am very diligent about my birth control because I don't want to become a parent now and I may never want to be one. And guess what? That's okay.
At this point, I can tell you that if my IUD failed me, I would choose abortion again. It's not a decision that women make lightly. It's not like we go skipping into the clinic. Facing an unwanted pregnancy was the traumatic part for me. Not the abortion. So stop trying to speak for others.
Oh, and JPC, as long as pro-choice women and men fight to keep abortion safe and legal, and the sane outnumber the insane, AKA The American Christian Taliban, abortion will never be illegal in America again. But you can keep dreaming your misogynistic dreams where abortion is forced into back alleys and women die because of it. But what do you care? You just think women should be broodmares. You care more about a fetus in a woman's body more than you do a living, breathing woman. Women's rights trump fetal rights EVERY TIME.
Look online at the picture of an abortion. Or look at the picture of a 10 week fetus and tell me either one isn't a child.
It's a FETUS, not yet a CHILD. I work in the field of Obstetrics and Gynecology. I see sonograms of fetuses at all stages every day. And while you have the right to your opinion, you don't have the right nor authority to tell other people what to do with their bodies. Not your body. Not your decision.
Please, don't misuse the word "Pro-choice" because if you are then you can choose to NOT to have an abortion and it may be your body but the fetus belongs to the child's. Pro-abortion is more appropriate for you crazy liberals can stop thinking I'm controlling, I'm saving a life, the baby life not yours. You can do whatever you want but do it without hurting the little blessings.
@Olivia you do the same; don't tell people that an aborting is an option when it is not.
Seriously, Abortion is a lie and an evil act of crime against nature and plus you haven't read the REAL history of Wade vs. Roe.
maybe a legislation that says if a woman that has an abortion also states that the man that was involved will be castrated could stop this whole debate--somehow-maybe I am wrong but a man somewhere plays into this???
JPC: my moms german sheperd drowned its own puppies that were born with minor deformities. We see this activity very often in the animal kingdom this is a very common practice. Just like homosexual acts but conservatives refuse to see that too. Rats also eat their children they can't take care of. to say this isn't natural is fooling yourself. Many animals rid themselves of offspring they feel they can't support.
@ ashp
Homosexuality is present in about 500 species. Infanticide in about 600. Cannabilism is present in about 1500. Is that what you liberals plan next? Soylent green anyone?
"Everyone else is doing it." is a child's excuse.
No i plan on none of those things Jim. Im just pointing out discrepencies in the above comment. To say something isn't natural is to say it doesn't regularly occur in nature which is absolutely false in the case brought up in the above comment.
Many comments on this thread are a classic case of slut-shaming women by "making them responsible" for "spreading their legs."
It becomes clear that many people are not that concerned about the life of the child, but making sure a woman is "responsible" for her "slutty choices."
For example, if you truly cared about saving the lives of children, perhaps you'd look at the statistics and see that legalizing abortion did not increase abortions. All it did was make it safer. The most effective means of preventing abortion? Education and easy access to birth control. But many of the same people who are anti-abortion are also against real sex education or easy access to birth control. Many of the religions that damn abortion also damn birth control.
The truth is, for many people it has nothing to do with protecting children. It has everything to do with forcing women to "be responsible" because they dared to have sex.
Also, another fact -- a large percentage of women who elect to have an abortion are women who in 1.) long-term relationships, 2.) already have children, and 3.) had their birth control method fail. Thus, rather than spread this mythology that abortions are the fallback of irresponsible "slutty" women, how about you actually educate yourself. If you actually cared about the life of the child, as some of you claim, the least you could do is actually educate yourself about the matter and see what is actually effective in reducing the number of abortions.
But, of course, it's much easier to remain ignorant and self-righteous.
It seems to me standard practice of people who love to dictate what others should do with their lives to use religion and throw out a "bless you" to those they are trying to "protect". It's annoying and rubs people the wrong way.
Don't bless people. Others are not of your faith and they don't want your "blessings". It comes off as trite and pretentious. As for the remark that women regret having abortions, that is bull@!$%#.
What would be most regrettable would be having your rights taken away by religious zealots who want to brand their form of mind-wash on the masses.
Abortions need to be legal and remain legal. If you care about babies so much, why don't you go adopt one? I am sure there are plenty more waiting for bleeding hearts to come and scoop them up.
I wouldn't want anyone regulating what I do with my body. Why should women have someone impose their will on theirs?
Yes, Unconstitutional--the Constitution of the United States does not consider fetuses to be people and the Supreme Court ruled that abortion is legal. There's no such thing as an unborn infant--that's called a fetus. And you are wrong about all mothers waking up in extreme pain and never getting over it. Speak for yourself, but you probably are not speaking for yourself if you are anti-choice. Women need to be able to decide or a lot more of us would be in poverty. We could all agree on one thing--free and easy access to birth control and early education for both boys and girls dramatically reduces abortion rates, so let's keep these programs going. There are a lot of unwanted kids in this country already who wake up in extreme pain from poverty, neglect, and abuse. Forcing women to bear children they can neither care for nor afford is not a humane or realistic policy.
I had birth control failure after I separated from an abusive husband. I got pregnant. The abusive husband told me that he would KILL any woman who made him pay child support for a child that wasn't his (he had doubts about the parentage of one of the children from his first marriage). The state I was living in regarded EVERY child CONCEIVED during a marriage to be the husband's for purposes of LEGAL parentage (for child support). This applies even when the couple is separated and there is no way for the husband to be father. I believed my ex that he would KILL ME (and I knew he had a 9 mm semi-auto handgun AND he knew where I lived). I reviewed ALL of my choices at the time - including closed and private adoption. I made the CHOICE that was best for me and my situation.
I now have a 6 year old son with my current husband. He was conceived years after I terminated my pregnancy. I am in my mid-40's NOW and still don't regret the CHOICE I made.
Ironically, the same people that are for protecting the right to live are the same people that generally support the death penalty, as is evidenced by Hoosier's home state, which kills the most people on death row each year, behind Texas (a liberal stronghold). They also don't want to pay more in taxes to help support these children or their mothers, especially if they're on welfare, but they think these children will magically raise and feed themselves. On top of all of that, they also don't believe in climate change or working to prevent it, because apparently a child's life is more important than all other living creatures on earth. Conservatives are the most confused hypocrites that have ever lived!
Im glad my governor vetoed this bill. Even if congress overrides its-it will never hold up. The Supreme Court will strike it down. Along with the Attorney General. This bill is unconstitutional. They know it. I do not understand why Republicans are so hell bent on limiting the rights of women and minorities. Then they actually have the audacity to wonder why they lost the election. Well actually they have the audacity to be mad because women and minorities cost them the election. But honestly, what in the hell where they expecting to happen when they were attacking women rights? Did they actually think we were going to vote them in office? They surely found out otherwise.
Thank you Governor Beebe. I truly appreciate this.
Highly educated Carol Anne:
It is good that you advocate life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Why do you think the unborn don't deserve them - especially life?
Idiot legislators! How many more welfare children will be born because of this? How many disabled children will be born because of this? Legislators need to quit taking money from the extreme right religious groups. Every welfare child and every disabled child is a burden on society's ability to provide aid. How many women and families will have to feed, clothe, and shelter a child they can't afford, for one reason or another? How many women and families will not be able to climb out of poverty because of the expense of raising another child in their family? It never ceases to amaze me that legislators who have enormous incomes are more than willing to force women to bear children, want the rest of the population to support them, and have no regard for the folly of their legislations.
And for those that think that life begins at conception...look up Molar pregnancy. It is a fertilized egg that never develops into a fetus. This is a medically proven fact that life does not necessarily begin at conception as the pro-life movenment falsely claims. The pro-life movement spreads lies to push their agenda and legislators are willing to accept those lies along with the donations from pro-life movement groups.
@ashp There is an difference, we are not animals nor share any relation with them. Animal follows the laws of nature where as we do not; therefore, it is illogical to compare animals to us. We have free will that allows us to make the right choice. Human nature, on the other hand, is what causes homosexuality (sexual orientation )and not base by choice nor genetic), killing babies (abortion), and ill-moral sexual acts (Porn). Animals doesn't share our view in moral concept we do so please don't pull a darwin on me cuz I study science as well.
gee, and here I thought Obama was supposed to be a communist muslim...(extreme sarcasm)
My dear crowbar......I'm sure when I meet my maker, SHE'LL be very understanding and ask me to sit and rest while SHE deals with the rest of you yahoo's. I'm a huge advocate of medically accurate and age appropriate sex education (that includes this sentence......YES YOU CAN GET PREGNANT YOUR FIRST TIME) and birth control. It's my sincere hope that no one ever has to choose to have an elective abortion, but it happens.
It's my belief that THERAPUETIC abortions should always be legal, at any stage of fetal development.....for those of you who are uninformed a THERAPUETIC abortion is to save the live of the mother to be and for cases of fetal abnormality or deformity.
It's also my belief that elective abortions should follow the current law and continue to be illegal at the 24 week time frame. As medical science advances that cut-off may change, and I would agree with that. If the fetus is at a viable stage of development, then you can no longer have a legal abortion.
I currently have 3 single mothers and their children living in my home. The first thing that happens is they have to prove they have birth control and know how to use it. I'm trying to help them all get back on their feet. I also try to teach them how important their actual living breathing child is. They have to read to them, they have to play with them, they have to have them help with small chores, they have to praise them for a job well done, and take them aside to explain what they have done wrong. Mom's don't get to scream and yell at their child at my house. There are better ways to teach your child how to behave. It's my belief that if have good positive time with your child, they won't misbehave just to get your attention.
This is why I believe my maker won't seek retribution for a mistake I made while still learning what it takes to be an adult. If you don't like it, then tough $hit!
ROFLMAO, I hate to break this to you, but we aren't anything more than clever apes, and too many still act like the apes we descended from.
obviously, the English language wasn't included in your so-called "studies".
even people don't share the same "moral concept", morals are derived from society, although some "moral concepts" do come from our evolutionary ancestry as the descendants of plains-dwelling apes. such concepts include things like trust. even an animal will learn to not trust someone who beats said animal
False, Saying that morals derive from evolution just means that certain instinctual human tendencies that give rise to what we call morality are the result of evolution, not that whatever promotes survival and reproduction is moral. Moral concepts consist of values, virtues and ethics that help individuals distinguish their actions as being morally right or morally wrong. Used in business and personal interactions, moral concepts provide a guide for achieving strong bonds and allowing positive, personal morality to prosper. Within the three concepts, truth is a standard of moral excellence necessary for positive morality to thrive. According to the article that I'm about to paste; Many writers regard ethics (Gr. ethike) as any scientific treatment of the moral order and divide it into theological, or Christian,ethics (moral theology) and philosophical ethics (moral philosophy). What is usually understood by ethics, however, is philosophical ethics, or moral philosophy, and in this sense the present article will treat the subject. Moral philosophy is a division of practical philosophy. Theoretical, or speculative, philosophy has to do with being, or with the order of things not dependent on reason, and its object is to obtain by the natural light of reason a knowledge of this order in its ultimate causes. Practical philosophy, on the other hand, concerns itself with what ought to be, or with the order of acts which are human and which therefore depend upon our reason. It is also divided into logic and ethics. The former rightly orders the intellectual activities and teaches the proper method in the acquirement of truth, while the latter directs the activities of the will; the object of the former is the true; that of the latter is the good. Hence ethics may be defined as the science of the moral rectitude of human acts in accordance with the first principles of natural reason. Logic and ethics are normative and practical sciences, because they prescribe norms or rules for human activities and show how, according to these norms, a man ought to direct his actions. Ethics is pre-eminently practical and directive; for it orders the activity of the will, and the latter it is which sets all the other faculties of man in motion. Hence, to order the will is the same as to order the whole man. Moreover, ethics not only directs a man how to act if he wishes to be morally good, but sets before him the absolute obligation he is under of doing good and avoiding evil. Therefore, moral concept is not a evolutionary tracts rather it is a philosophical concept derive from religion because the bible teach one part of morality and the other is cultural.
jpc, not really false, but extremely abbreviated for brevity.
generally, I agree with most of what you state, except possibly for the last line, not only does the bible teach morality, most religions have very similar ideas.
I do view religion as a device developed to control our more base instincts, and abuse of said religions as a source of great ills as well as a source of good
I am religious but not brainwashed yet I encounter statement like this every time. How am I being held against my will by religion? Yes, to do one must have the desire without selfish motive. One cannot do good because "you want to" it's selfish and it means you want to do whenever you feel like it. I seen people who did that are often hypocritical and selfish. Want to know what I believe is more then just an opinion; do good because this hateful world has lost morality to political onslaught of tactless politicians and corrupt laws that butcher the innocent and shewed blood for wealth not worth even a child life cries for a knight not in shining armor with a heart of gold and a cane of charity. In short, do good because the world needs a role model is all I'm saying
what? where did I say you were being held against your will? in general, I think religion is a good thing, the real test is : would you (or anyone, not singling you out here) still do the right thing even if you knew there would be no "ultimate punishment or reward"?
does the person that only does good because they want to get to heaven or fears hell, still really all that good of a person? or is that person ultimately doing such for purely selfish reasons? a legitimate question, I think.
my personal philosophy is "do no harm, and try to leave this world a slightly better place for those that come after me", fairly simple, at least in theory, in practice, a bit more difficult, we all struggle against temptation to "push a little more". some more so than others, and some just push out of spite and the belief in their own self-importance. (heh, heh, a lot of politicians fall under that one)
as far as role models are concerned, yes, life would be better if they actually lived the way jesus taught, but many, even those that claim to be his followers, do not. personally I have the greatest respect for the Amish and Quakers, even if I don't actually believe as they do, but IMHO, they seem to "get it" better than some of the more vocal christians
IMHO, they seem to "get it" better than some of the more vocal Christians that seem more interested in controlling others than they do in their own actions. not a blanket condemnation, the entire range of "Christian" is quite broad, so one can't use too broad of a brush in characterizing things that they dislike in some parts
(ran out of time on the edit)
If others controlled themselves maybe some people wouldn't try doing for them.
If a man has no control whatsoever over pregnancy and it isn't rape, why should he be held acountable when a woman doesn't take birth control? Are you telling me that some women are dim enough to rely solely on condoms and a man using them for her protection?
The Republicans are focused on jobs, unfortunately the ones they created have been for attorneys.
and bankers and wall street.
Better then the Dems Zero job policy!!
Right Joe.....because the sequester is going to be boosting jobs left and right huh? If republicans actually did anything in Washington, businesses might know how to plan for the future, or hell even next week. Unfortunately, your supreme leader, the ayatollah of the American Taliban Boehner "doesn't quite know how the sequester will work out." My how quickly your clan forgot about creating jobs, and now they're crying about cutting spending too? Just run Romney again next election, he stands for exactly what you guys stand for these days....nothing.
Not true at all.. In the end it is the womans choice to choose to not to have sex. Back in the day women would indeed fend of guys advances to want to get into girls pants. That is our basic desire is to mate with a girl. But regardless how much i wanted to have sex with a girl two things stopped me. One my morality and conviction of knowing that sex outside of marriage has its repercussions, second that stopped me was a woman saying NO !!! Women think about sex, but not as much as men. Yes some may crave it, but not like most men. So in the end, when a woman gives in , she needs to take FULL responsibility for her actions, and that is, if she gets pregnant to be prepared to take care of her child that will be looking for the love and protection that a mother has to offer.
Your ad hominem attcks has no place in a debate. It brings nothing to your point, but instead making your argument look weaker. I dont appreciate those kind of attacks.
We are in agreement here. It would be absurd for any person to say anything different. To say a fetus is not living or dead, would be a fallacy, since a dead fetus or non living fetus would result in nothing. Since a living fetus bring forth a baby, we can say a fetus is living.
This is very true as well. If there was some kind of incentive for american families to adopt american children, instead of adopting from other countries. I am all for helping other countries, and absolutely hate that any child has to live on the streets, but the reality is they do... Every where in the world. What irks me more is this country is so rich and prosperous compared to other countries and yet we cant take care of the homeless children here. As much as i want to help other countries , we need to take care of ourselves first.
Unfortunately this is reality too. Its not fair to label to any particular group, i.e. Christians, conservatives, republicans.. Politics, it all comes down to whos wallet is being filled up.
The underlying issue is that you cant please every one. Someone has to suffer. Example if we allow out of control population growth, we know that means more funds needed for all these tons of programs and assistance, bigger schools, bigger structure.. In doing so it takes more money, which the government will have to tax more. As a result of taxing more, the american people have less money to spend, to buy food, pay bills, housing , just getting by in life. So that is a dead end, eventually it will be. So the other way, if you keep taxes down, and cut back programs, now it allows people to have more money to spend to help stimulate the economy, but the cost is less care for are in need of help. Which also is a dead end..
Finally this is for those who fail to think about the mother/woman herself
How about the safety and well being of the mother ? Does any one here care to debate on the severe short term and long term ill effects of having your child ripped out of you ? The physical , mental, social pain ..
In the end, even if it still is a womans choice to kill her child, she should be made fully aware of all dangerous effects that having an abortion could cause. It should be mandatory before she gets it done. If you hold this kind of vital information back, i think its a blatant violation of well being and safety of our women.
No matter how this measure turns out, some folks are not going to be happy. With steps taken to consider rape, incest, health issues for the mother's well being and viability of the unborn fetus taken into consideration.Any remaining justifications are probably harder to rationalize. At least for the prolifer's, choices for abortions. Ultimately that battle is truly best for the heart, not the courts.But in our society it will be the courts in the final analysis. At one end some will demand, it's a woman's right and at the other's will demand, is a baby's right to be given a chance to live. I for one am certainly not going to ever be wise enough to know how to bring both sides together. Do you?
Her body, her choice. Seems simple enough to me.
Her body, her choice, her crack to open, her baby to kill.
Sorry Lola, the unborn child is not the woman's body, despite being connected to it. It is another unique member of our species with a body of its own.
Bill..not until it's born and can live on it's own...sorry
In India, abortion is illegal and they have one of the most heavily illegal abortion which results to death of lots of woman. It seems the US want to follow that and back to the 50's, oppression of woman.
And to many to blame woman, it takes TWO to dangle.
Absolutely false Carol. Biology determines an individual of any species by the unique DNA structure and the ability for it to grow.
The "back alley abortion" myth from the 50s is complete claptrap. Medical and forensic records from the 50s show less than .001% of women's deaths from pregnancy related issues in the US came from complications of abortion.
Bill, you are having a hard time keeping your crazy arguments straight...It's the woman's body until it's born, BECAUSE it has invaded HER body!
How can her body invade her body? Your argument is illogical.
The unborn fetus invades the WOMANS body...do I need to type slower for you? (We were talking about the unborn child=it's.)
carol nothing invaded HER body except what she allowed into it!
The real shame is that you think there should be no accountability for someones actions but everyone else should have to pay for their bad decisions. Why if it takes "TWO" should only one be able to decide??? The real shame is so many of you believe killing an child is ok yet a murderer should be kept alive at everyones expense. The real shame is people like YOU who believe so strongly in killing infants were not the ones aborted.
Invaded her body? That is the comment of a sick mind.
bluthunder...do you know how many men do not support their child monetarily or emotionally? According to estimates in 2012, according to the federal Office of Child Support Enforcement, $108 billion in total back payments was owed to parents with custody of children in 2009. Nearly half of that is owed to taxpayers for supporting children on public assistance, that's a raw deal for taxpayers. But for the mothers owed -- 82% of custodial parents are women -- it's the severing of an economic lifeline.
This is WHY it's up to the mother, aside from it being IN her body!
arslp - Do you REALLY think I care about your opinion? When it's not wanted there, the body has been invaded.
Carol Anne
Probably as much as I care about yours. My apologies that you and those who are forced to kill their babies don't have the intellect to prevent pregnancies. Maybe if we throw more billions into birth control you all will learn what to do.
ARSLP- First, thank you for using my NAME. Second, medical efforts to prevent pregnancy FAIL! So judgmental, I have never had an abortion, probably never will. However, I do not want the self-rightous, such as yourself to take away that CHOICE!
Does India have the same amount of birth control options the United States does? I wonder how many of those women would kill to have the same bc options Americans do, yet they do not use the correctly?
the easiest and best thing to do with folks like arslp and crazy bill is to put them on "ignore". Then they can acrimoniously blab on to each other about stuff that doesn't even pertain to them. I would imagine if either of the uptight righties had a clue and were forced to carry an unwanted child for 9 mos, then give birth and support it for say 20yrs or so, they would be running as fast as their fat legs could carry them to the nearest clinic... instead of preaching nonsense to others. Amazing isn't it (NOT), how the "pro-lifers" love their guns, wars and all the while hate anyone who needs financial assistance from the government as they try to raise a family. Heck to top that off, they don't even want people getting birth control from their health insurance. The epitomy of pea-brains, I tell ya... but we'll just call 'em tea-baggers instead.
Carol:
Thank YOU for using MY name. Unless you are present and prevent someone from using birth control, you are not taking away their choice. Birth control failure? Ah, great reason to kill a child. Not as bizarre as your previous post about the father not paying child support, but still good.
The considerations for rape, incest and the health of the mother were left in this legislation. That wasn't removed. I don't know if you have had, or will have a child, and am not asking. I have worked with children who were born at 6 months gestation, and cannot see how any human could kill that child. Anatomy & physiology were required for me, and I've seen how the face forms, how there are tiny fingers and toes before 10 weeks, and know from experience how early your child moves in the womb. This isn't a matter of merely whether you like my opinion or not; it is a matter of life or death.
Prober:
Being ignored by you is fine with me, as is being called Tea Party member. Birth control is not abortion; do you understand that? I do not condone murder, and am not a child killer. Being called anything by someone who does either doesn't bother me at all.
Why do the anti-choicers always use the disgusting and misogynistic term "She should have never opened her legs" or words to that effect? Just goes to show why they really want to outlaw abortion. They believe women should PAY for enjoying sex and their sexuality. PATHETIC. Sex is fun. Sex is nothing for women to be ashamed of. And if they become pregnant and don't want to be and CHOOSE abortion, that is nothing to be ashamed of either.
In a perfect world, no one would have unprotected sex and contraception would never fail. But both happen and abortion is an option when this happens. It's none of anyone's business what CHOICE the pregnant woman makes because it's HER BODY. And it's a private medical issue that should only be between her and her doctor. Stay out of women's wombs and our bedrooms.
Um, I nearly died during delivery after an UNCOMPLICATED pregnancy with no warning that my blood pressure was going to plummet and require an emergency c-section. Women still DIE in delivery in the US so requiring a woman to carry to term and deliver is also requiring her to risk her life in many cases. Sometimes those risks are not known about in advance.
My personal hope is that medical science figures out a way to TRANSPLANT a fetus from one body to another. Then the men and women who are against birth control, against sex education, against assisting women and families with lower incomes, and against abortion can step up and have the fetus transplanted to their bodies. This Includes the men since the intestines or liver would provide a wonderful implantation site for a placenta. At that point, abortion becomes extremely rare. But until such time as we can do that. it remains a NECESSARY evil.
As for those who argue "why should I pay for HER baby?" If you're going to FORCE her to incubate it, you get to PAY FOR IT. If you negate her freedom of CHOICE, you get to pay for the WIC, Food Stamps, TANIF, head start, etc. You only have an argument against YOU paying for it with YOUR taxes if she has a CHOICE in the matter. It's that f'ing simple.
We could teach kids about sex and provide them the means to avoid getting pregnant in the first place, but I guess ignorance is the policy you all have chosen. I looks like that approach worked, as most of the die hard conservatives in this country remain ignorant until the day they die. Good thing my generation and those younger are phasing you out. I for one would trade a fetus's life for one of yours any day, but I'll have to wait until I have my own religion before I can write that law.
Hey pro-lifers...google MOLAR Prgnancy. It's a fertilized egg that never develops into a fetus. Medical proof that life does not necessarily begin at conception. Get an education about biology and womens reproduction issues before you spread lies about conception and life.
Olivia Dunham:
Sex is fun - yes, it is. It absolutely is. It would absolutely take ALL the fun out of sex to think that the very "Fun" act in which I was engaging would cause the death of a child.
Hey AvgJoeTX - LEAVE an unborn baby alone and see what happens. Medical proof that you're simply justifying the killing of a preborn infant. You certainly talk like taking a life is nothing.
BTW, I have an education and I would bet almost anything it's more advanced than yours.
Finally, someone in Arkansas with a clue.
Why can't an unborn baby be given a chance to live? No one is making the female parent keep and provide for the child, only that she not kill him/her.
Besibug - unfortunately all the people lining up to deny a woman the right to control her own body are not lining up to adopt or care for the resulting children. They are all for coercing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term and then turn her and the child over to the state to support. At that point they get to accuse her of being a slut and a deadbeat.
Anti-choice proponents are only pro-fetus, not pro-child.
Most of the people I know would rather the woman give the child a chance at life and respect her for it.
They may "respect" her for it in theory, but they are not about to assist her in putting her life together or missing an opportunity to degrade her for having a child she could not afford.
And if the woman was financially unable to provide for this child....Would you adopt said child?
BESIBUG-561369, Here is the FLAW in your thinking, It's NO ONES business! The "people you know" should stay out of peoples lives.
There are agencies that assist women that are pregnant, also private adoption. As for people that "talk" - there have always been unkind tongues and always will be, that should not keep someone from doing the right thing.
The respect is in making a choice to choose life, then further respect not to make the same mistake 4 or 5 times. Respect for taking responsibility and bettering yourself and your child, no one should be denied the right for assistance, while the mother is going to school. The respect stops when she does not want to better herself, wants to take assistance the rest of her life and instill the same value in to her child.
How can you say that children that have been adopted people want to degrade the mother for choosing their life over abortion?
Screw all of you who don't believe in her body, her choice. I, like many other girls, would kill myself before I'm forced to carry a child for nine months that I DO NOT WANT!! I hope many of you self righteous people get life insurance for your young daughters with a suicide clause in the event she gets pregnant, doesn't want to carry it, and you force her too. Instead of having a grandchild, you'll be burying your child!!
There are privately funded "pregnancy crisis centers" that help until a birth. After that they turn you over to the state welfare system. If you have never stood in a grocery line (with your children) and had people talk about you like you are not there because you use food stamps you don't know what you are talking about. You also should be aware that only certain babies are considered optimal for adoption. They do not include children of color and children with disabilities.
Seeing the hate coming from TinyP and others makes me wonder why don't these pro choice women just get sterilized instead of using abortion as birth control?
Close your friggin legs and you won't have a baby that you don't want.
If you don't want brownies, don't mix the batter and place them in the hot oven.
funny that people like jd are never telling the men to keep THEIR legs closed.
Sure we are! It's OUR side that pushes abstinence, remember?
The penis just doesn't fall into the vagina on it's own.
@jdmb03
It takes a man to make baby, where is the male in the picture here?
Nowhere and everyone makes mistake, unlike Catholic priest where they can't marry and have to go with children.
Feminazis:
If you're smart enough to know how to use a computer, then push the pill out the back of the foil on the right day of the week.
I keep reading about "Mistakes", convenience, etc. but no one is pointing out that the baby created is THE ONLY INNOCENT one. That baby hasn't done one thing; and he or she is supposed to die because the parents are stupid or won't pay child support?????? What sickness is that?
And to say there are not people lined up to adopt babies is nothing but a lie!! There are people going overseas to adopt because of the shortage of adoptable babies in the US.
Funny, that's exactly what wealthy white men thought when they were told they couldn't have slaves, or beat their wives and children.
There are adoptable children here. They are currently languishing in foster homes waiting desperately for a forever family. But most infertile people only want perfect little white newborn babies. And the other side to this is, when you say there are no adoptable children because of abortion, what you are in fact saying is that women who face an unwanted pregnancy should have that baby because (WHINE) the barren want their lily white newborns. Talk about selfish. But the anti-choice motto is SAVE THE FETUS. STARVE THE CHILD. Because we all know you antis don't give a rat's behind what happens to the child once it is born. Hypocrites!
Would you anti-choicers quit with the sexist "Keep your legs closed" comments? It takes two tango. And when you use this terminology, you reveal the true reason you are against abortion. It's all about controlling a women's sexuality and her body. People make mistakes and don't always use contraception. Contraception and even sterilization fail.
When this happens and a person chooses abortion, they are not behaving irresponsibility, they are TAKING responsibility. Stay out of our bedrooms. Stay out of our wombs. What part of "It's MY BODY. It's MY CHOICE " don't you anti-choicers get? What makes you all think you have the right to tell a stranger what to do with her body? You people are truly sick.
George Carlins famous quote........
"Republicans want live babies to grow up to be dead soldiers"......
Love that Carlin quote because it is so on the money.
Olivia, Carol Anne and all of the rest of the men and women who feel exactly how I feel: Thank you for saying what I have been wanting to say to all of these ultra conservative religious right wing @!$%#s. You all phrased my feelings precisely. I surely do appreciate it.
And Cat: Thank you. All of your posts. Well stated. Well said. You were real too.
Thank you all so much. All of you all's posts said it all. They were perfect. I couldn't have said it any better myself.
For all the ones who are so pro-life: Go adopt all of the unwanted children and take care of them for the rest of their lives. Better yet go to every single pregnant woman that is considering having an abortion and instruct them not to have them because you all are going to provide for it, care for it, nurture it, clothe it, feed it, shelter it, it is never going to have to worry because you all are going to take excellent care of them and they are not going to want for anything. Since you all are just so concerned for the fetus or embryo's life. Go ahead. Please. Hurry to the rescue to save the unborn and unwanted children. Don't wait. Get up of your asses and go Adopt them. Come on now. They are waiting.
If you all are not going to do this then do us all of favor: MYODB. Mind Your Own Damn Business. Handle your mess. Live your life. And stay the hell out of mine and the rest of ours. Clean up your own house. Sweep your own front porch. Cut your own grass. Do not tend to your neighbors home. They can handle their own. They do not need any of your help.
We do not need your help. We have the right to do as we please. That's the way it should be. That's the way it will always be.
Olivia, Carol AnnE, sweetcancer,
Mind YOUR own business. Clean up your own house. Pay for your own abortions - and don't expect those of us who are opposed to infanticide to pay for it. If you are dead enough on the inside to take the life of an innocent, unborn child - that is ON YOU; don't expect it to be funded by "Us". You - Pro-deathers pay for it. If you can handle your own business, do so.
Be freaking responsible enough to have sex without killing children. How hard is that? What are you people, teenagers?
As for who is desirable for adoption, I don't (or do others) have anything to say about who is in demand. Makes you mad that it's little white babies that are wanted, does it? Why is that? Isn't it just a shame you shrews can't run the world?
sweetcancer MIND YOUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS!!! dont try to tell us what we can eat , smoke or drink! NONE of your business if we own guns or not, none of your business if we want to have a cigarette or a soda, beer or anything else, AND IT IS NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY FOR ANYTHING OF yours or any of your choices!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bluthunder..........Go have another smoke, another drink and play with your little guns....no one wants anything you have and will not try and stop you from getting lung cancer from smoking, liver cancer from drinking or shooting your foot off when using your precious guns...
That said, stop telling women what to do...if you do not want other people telling you what to do, why do you think she is going to listen to a strange man telling her what to do with her body.......The people in this world who you think are taking things from you have jobs...they are not all moochers......you are listening to too much Faux News.....that is not good or your brain...!!
it is rather bizarre how the anti-choice crowd screams "don't tell me what to do!", and then proceeds to tell everyone else what to do.
makes you want to tell them where to go...
And it became law . Only woman can defetus.
Wow, common sense from Arkansas - shame it didn't come from the State Congress
This is why the libs are in charge of ruining the country, the repubs just cant give up this stupid abortion issue!
You're right - because I do believe the federal government is too big and too far reaching in many areas but I will never vote to give power to people who are obsessed with what happens in bedrooms and doctors offices and who are committed to imposing their religious beliefs on the entire country.
You must not be planning on voting again, cause no other choice. Obamacare and Obamacore education want to be all up in every aspect of your life, and Liberals are pushing it as fast as they can.
I'm sure you didn't intend on saying the libs were "ruining" the country, but your mistype actually tells the truth.
Bill..it's called sarcasm. Google the term.
Serious, it was Bill O'Reilly...who is anti-choice to the point of obsession...who still said that the abortion issue got Obama re-elected, because so many single women were voting, and they tended to be pro-choice.
It's why I didn't vote Romney/Ryan.
And O'Reilly has blood on his hands. The blood of Dr. George Tiller, whom he bashed and berated every single chance he got. He should be ashamed but you need a conscience for that.
He sure told the truth. That's exactly why I voted for President Obama. There was no way between heaven and hell I was voting for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. There was no way I was going to vote for men who believe in stripping women of their rights. Men who don't in believe in birth control. Because they don think women should prevent getting pregnant because of their bull@!$%# religious beliefs. And because they believe that men should control women. The whole Republican party believe this bull@!$%#. That's why a lot of them were voted out of congressional offices this last election. And they keep it up even more will be voted out in 2014. This country will be controlled by them Democrats. And if I, all of my friends, and family members had it their way it wouldn't be nothing but Liberal Democrats running Arkansas. Because if Liberal Democrats were in control, this bill would have never even have surfaced. And we would not be having this discussion right now. I'm so glad the ACLU is planning on suing and take action. And I'm so glad Governor Beebe vetoed the bill.
i think all people want conservative speending and smaller government but the repubs have a hard time proving it when they do the opposite. Why the fixation on abortions???
I would agree. When abortion is outlawed, only outlaws will have abortions.
Control doesn't work for guns and it's sure as heck not going to work for abortion. Never has. If abortion is outlawed, there will simply be more illegal abortions and more abandonment of infants. Outlawing abortion is never going to result in more loving homes and care for babies. Sad but true. Anybody who thinks different is delusional.
Plus, now that we have such effective medical equipment and drugs, abortion will simply go underground. The Jane Collective in Chicago during pre-legal abortion days will simply spring up nationwide, and create a foe that is stronger than ever.
The people who want to stop abortion are not effective because they are not looking rationally at why a woman chooses abortion and who the "average" abortion seeker is. It's a woman in her twenties who already has at least one child and lives at poverty level. The anti-abortion people like to imagine that women are running around having abortions because they think children are "inconvenient" and they want to party. It might make them feel better, but it's not true in most cases. To fight abortion, we need to fight poverty and invest in education.
Laws may make them feel good, but they are useless. No different than the gun debate, and yet they can't see that.
Stop. Just stop with the abortion nonsense. We have 7+ billion people in this world, the vast majority of whom live wretched lives. We are facing a warming climate (for whatever reason, natural or man-made) with some potentially nasty consequences (water shortages, desertification, flooding, etc.) There are increasingly drug-resistant bacteria and emerging viruses, disappearing fish stocks, deforestation, phosphate depletion, pollution.
We have all these problems and these idiot politicians, primarily on the extreme right, are worried about - abortion???? Are you freaking kidding me? STOP IT. Start attending to things that you are elected to attend to. Stop mixing religion and politics. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. But don't stop [other] women from having an abortion. If a woman feels it is the right thing to do in her circumstance, it probably is.
What I find strange is that all of these godly, holier than thou people who are so against abortion are NOWHERE to be found once a child is born. How many infants have these people adopted? How many children were housed INSIDE the Mormon Tabernacle or Crystal Cathedral or 5th Avenue Synagogue? Exactly how many beds were installed? How many children did the Jason Raperts of the world adopt? How much additional nutritional and educational funding did they support? Did they set up any college tuition funds? How about after school programs? What's that you say? Zero? Nadda?
Totally idiotic. I want to stamp my feet, scream and slap these morons upside to Monday. GET TO WORK AND FIX THIS COUNTRY and STOP, STOP, STOP the abortion nonsense.
I finally got an answer one day from an anti-choice activist when I asked why, if they were so committed to life and children, they didn't provide services to the woman and the child after it was born. She informed me that after the birth the state was responsible because of course the government had more resources than private groups. She never did tell me if she voted for people who were willing to raise taxes to pay for all these social services.
If you are so concerned about overpopulation, why don't you volunteer your own life to reduce it? None of you libtards are willing to sacrifice anything YOU have. It's always someone else's responsibility to fix things.
Bill..a little Judgy McJudgerton, aren't you. As a GOP teatard, I am sure you are familiar with the passages in the Bible about judging others?
Carol, I most certainly am. All of them. Including the ones where we are told to judge righteously. But I guess your anti-life web sites never quote those, huh?
John 7:24 Do not judge according to appearance, but JUDGE with RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT
Matthew 7:1- Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Luke 6:37 - Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. Romans 2:1-3 - Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. Proverbs 17:18 - A man void of understanding striketh hands, [and] becometh surety in the presence of his friend.
God told us all to fight for the good of all lands, to fight evil, and if you think for one minute, standing behind what God has told us to do is judging, you need help, mental help. Murder is evil, especially to murder a small baby. To rip this innocent baby from the Mother is horrible. Have you ever thought of the pain? Have you ever witnessed an abortion, watched how the baby flings its arms back and forth? You don't think this real child has feelings? You are all sick. Before any abortion, the woman needs to watch the film of an abortion.
One day, when God comes back to Earth, you will all be on your knees begging for forgiveness.
No Jean, you need help. You are merely justifying your judgments. They will also be judged, by God.
Jean: Reference Please!
Good Carol Ann:
You're familiar with what the Bible says about judging, but don't remember what God says about how He knew you when you were in the womb? You know, when you invaded your mom's womb? Or what He said about "Woe unto the hands that shed innocent blood?"
You seem to have a selective memory? It is legal infanticide; and it is not moral.
Charles:
Proverbs 6:17
Psalms 139:13
I don't give a @!$%# what your god said, all I want is for women to take responsibility for their actions and try to do the right thing before they get pregnant. Is it so much to ask that instead of killing a human you take your @!$%#ing pill, or your shot, or get an implant, or get an IUD, or use a sponge, or never have sex with men without making them wear a condom?
Anti-choice propaganda documentaries such as THE SILENT SCREAM give the false impression that a 12 week old fetus can feel pain and sense danger. This is not scientifically possible as the brain is not capable of making these connections until at least the 24th week of pregnancy. Any actions of the fetus at the 12 week point are reflexive and not in anyway connected to cognition.
Why don't you just run down to the snip shop and get yourself a vasectomy? That will take care of any possible oopsies! If Arkansas passes a law that forces a woman to have an unwanted baby, then the father of that baby should be forced to have a vasectomy so this doesn't happen again!!! Like that guys??? I do! You holier-than-thou men disgust me! I'll bet if a woman is forced to carry a baby to term AND the father is forced to have a vasectomy (by law), you guys will change your tune real quick like! Who in the world should ever legislate how a man's penis should work??!!! LOL!!!
Olivia Dunham:
Let's stick a needle in you with salt water and see if it burns. Or take a forcep and rip off an arm and a leg and see if that hurts. Let's not forget sticking the scissor in the back of the head then open it. No, that wouldn't hurt. You are citing the British study that cites the 24 weeks. There are others that cite 20 weeks. Still there are others that cite less. Of course, if it is so benign, why should you care anyway? Because it is gruesome murder, and these tiny, preborn children react violently to these gruesome situations.
I wish you had to see and live with - everyday - what you accept as acceptable. What difference if any actions are reflexive or not? Related to cognition or not? What of severely globally developmentally delayed? Going to try to convince there is no pain there? Are you going to try to say that reflexes negate sensation? You are not going to say just anything and be accepted, believe me. I know and have studied A & P; and you're blowing smoke.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/preborn-babies-feel-pain-90480/
and arslp is trying again to force his religious beliefs onto others that don't believe as arslp does.
it doesn't matter to anyone else what you think god said, live your own life as you think god said and stop trying to force your religion down other peoples throats
How about instead of men having surgery after the female has a child she didn't want you drop the kid off with daddy? Oh, you don't want men to have that much control do you. Why not instead have women have their tubes clamped off instead? Because obviously you think women are too stupid to actually use birth control and take responsibility for themselves. Which is exactly what it sounds like to me everytime I hear someone scream that a man should be responsible for a woman's birth control.
hey bj, maybe that's what you should stick to, BJs, problem solved.
it takes two to make a kid, so don't go dumping all the responsibility on the woman, don't want to use a balloon? too effing bad.
Oh MarkWills, how silly you are. I am a woman with two children. After the second I got my tubes clamped, I am currently taking the birth control shot and I never have sex without a condom because I know who is responsible for me. I am.
how can you win a election when you isiolate women? Women flock to the left not because they believe their socialistic views they do it because of this issue? You cant claim freedom in the same breath as cant do!
We have never isolated women.. We just women to become responsible.. Also the men that impregnate these women, they too are and should be responsible for the murder of a baby. You have all fought for your free condoms, and birth control... Now why in the world do you not use birth control? There is no excuse for this horrible murdering of innocent babies. We will see what God thinks...
Only if you are A "murderer of babies" will you get to hear what God says. Otherwise you will hear God say it is none of your business. The woman is trying to be responsible and have the abortion. If you will get out of the way, she will fulfill her responsibility. What say ye????
Jean-982597 - Where you are concerned, who is "we"? Do you have a turd in your pocket?
God forbid women take some personal responsibility instead of just 'clean up on isle 9'.
And God forbid men quit sticking where it don't belong!! Maybe we should go so far as to say, men should only have sex when they want to procreate and are willing to take full responsibility for a child after it is born. You idiots don't mind throwing the full responsibility on the women, do you? And you talk about a woman like she is some sort of slut... what about whore men??!! There are LOTS of them!!! A whore man should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Think I'm crazy? It makes as much sense as some of your one-sided arguments!!! If a baby is born to a woman who doesn't want it and is forced to raise it on taxpayer dollars, the man should go to jail until the child is 21 years old??? Want to make this fair or not??? NONSENSE!!
Here is what I don't get - the pro-lifers and generally the religious right + the GOP, don't want to allow any kind of sex education other than abstinence and are fighting against any/all attempts to educate the youth on proper birth control and contraceptive use as well as family planning issues! The reasoning they come up with is that teaching such things will encourage teen sexual activity and that will lead to other "sins", like pre-marital sex and the whole society will crumble and God will punish us all, or something like that.
At the same time, the same people are adamantly against abortion, because they figure that abortion is murder, again another sin, or simply because they (GOP politicians) need to get some votes!
So, Jean, you folks don't want to allow education that will prevent pregnancy, wanted or unwanted, you don't want to allow the health insurance providers to cover contraceptives, you don't want to allow abortion, you make laws that endanger more women's life, their reproductive health and their overall health (see the newly minted laws in Texas that put Planned Parenthood out of business) than any abortion ever could.
So, what do you really want? It seems to me that you and your God expects everybody to be celibate and to only have sex for procreation purposes!
Why is it that you folks want to impose your morality on everybody else? Just because others don't believe in your God (what ever name you may have for your God, or religion) and don't share your moral views, it doesn't mean that they are wrong and should be ostracized! Millions of people died because one group of people imposed their views and beliefs on the masses (think about the Holy Inquisition, Nazis, Communists, etc.)! They all believed that it was their duty to "save" people from themselves and that they had the moral right to do so! Any deviation from the "right" way, cost people their lives.
Someone wiser than myself once said: "Be careful what you wish, for you might get it". My only hope is that sooner or later, cooler heads will prevail!
1. If women shouldn't be told to not have sex then neither should men
2. Men have one form of birth control that doesn't involve surgery or abstinece, women have multiple options and therefore have more control
3. If everything that happens after sex is in the woman's control then she is the one who should be responsible for it.
4. When the courts decide that father's should have equal time with their children and equal authority in their lives once they are born then you can scream 'what about the father'.
We will not keep babies alive just so you Republicans have more young poor people to send off to fight your WARS. Send you own children off to your Wars.
You fool, Democrats have started many wars.. Look how many obama has started.. You make no sense what so ever.. You need history 101, but you probably couldn't read nor understand it.
Please list Obama's wars.
Well, Jean-982597 , you just proved your ignorance! lol!!! No need to read any more of Jean's posts!! As bright as Sarah Palin apparently!!!
It is not that they really care about the fetus. This is a power thing. The republicans want to control every facet of our lives. Smaller government my ass!!!
Mike: You hit the nail on the head with the hammer. That's exactly what it is. They just want to control everything and everybody. That's all this issue is. Its about control. Its about controlling women. Its about controlling the whole entire United States. And this is exactly why they lost the election and will continue to loose. No woman is going to fore fit her right to choose to do as she pleases. They can kick rocks.
I meant forfeit. My bad. Mistyped.
Why is it that men our more worried about women rights then women our. It is very simple if you want one you should be able to have it , if you don't want one that is your choice . The big question is the GOP say's abortions should be illegal and then they cut funding on children services . I thought if you were so pro life that you would also want to support that child and make sure it has a good life ? That is why the GOP lost the last election when will they realize stay out of my live . Another point if they make illegal the indian tribes will open clinics on their land ,because the our exempt from state law they are legally a seperate welfare nation inside the USA. Bright move GOP make more money for the indian tribes !!!
Because abortion is a HUMAN issue, not just a women's issue. The CHILD is the one being destroyed.
Bill Walker, you can't even spell ARE, you are using OUR for ARE... And you want to make a life and death decision.. You need serious help..
You don't even realize that sequester was obama's idea...Try listening to some news instead of games.
Ignoramus!!!!.
Hey bill,
Truth be told, the issue of aborting a child is only a human issue for the human that have the issue. Those who are objecting to this procedure would be better served attending their own weaknesses and/or sins. You can also use that time to teach your sons how to be responsible gun owners, and not to go into theaters and kill multiple people.
Hey Charles, that's pretty much what men said when they couldn't beat their wives and children anymore. It's great how much you have in common with those people.
'Why should the world care, it's my family and none of anyone's business what I do.'
Maybe someday women will be smart enough to actually use the multiple birth control methods they have available and use them correctly.
I say women, because for some strange reason not one person who is pro-abortion or feminist is screaming for doctors to come up with more male birth control options.
Hey Charles
I have no problem with abortion because I believe in quility of live . As far as gun ownership all of my children have been shoting since they were 5 years old and both know more about gun safety then most adults . They have been taught to shot to kill and have 100 of hours of range time . They have practice head shots first then heart , they will not be victims when they turn 21 they will get carry permits . If you know any ladies that want to learn not to be victims I suggest get to the range and learn from a cert trainer. Weapons of choice in house 12 gauge pump and in your car and for carry gun 38cal short barrel works great.
Just answer one question if the goverment takes away a women right to choose , what will be the next right they take free speech.
Hey BJ... why is it ALWAYS the woman's place to prevent pregnancy? There are ways YOU GUYS could prevent it to if you are so worried about it!! SNIP SNIP! Can be undone when you are ready to quit sticking it where it doesn't belong and father a child!
I would like to propose legislation that every man be required to have a snip snip until they are ready to father a child with the mother of the child. Then we can have the unsnip done!! FULLY COVERED UNDER OBAMACARE!!! WOO HOO!
Do men get pregnant? Do men have to worry about anything that comes up during pregnancy?
That little snip snip comment is exactly what I'm talking about. You want men to have a surgical procedure instead of women actually using the multiple bc options they have. Women have total control over pregnancy so it should be her responsibility. But that would mean actually taking responsibility for their actions.
BTW, self righteousness is ugly, I'm a female who had two children then got my tubes tide, take the bc shot and make sure I never have sex without condoms, because I realize that I am responsible for what happens to my body and do not rely on anyone else to keep me safe.
The GOP wonders why do many women vote Democratic. When the GOP stops trying all these devious methods to assault the rights of women they might get a vote or two from them. Roe vs Wade is law. Get over it !!!
No, that will be the next obstacle they try to defeat. Did Arkansas pass a jobs bill for their state yet?
That's a good question. In all honesty I don't believe they have. I really hate the fact that republicans control our legislation.
Hey Republicans, When you are at your annual meeting this year on how you can win elections here is some free advice.
Give up fixation on abortions!
end war on drugs
believe in god, dont legislate god
try those 3 items and you will win every election!
They also need to pick someone people can relate to. An old, white dude with a billion dollars HARDLY understands my struggles.
I dont know you , nor does the government. Its not up to the government to "know your struggles"just deal with your struggles without government interference. Such a entitlement response! no wonder this country is so f'd up! The government doenst understand my struggles? Really?
No, just a rich, white dude running for President. The elected official is SUPPOSED to represent me, as a white, rich man that never wanted for a thing would NOT do. Read a little better.
Save the fetus, forget the child. Doctors are required to get a degree before practicing medicine, but evidently not politicians.
PLEASE show me where anyone says to forget the child after it is born! I dare you!!
Typical republicans--less government intrusion but lets control a woman's fetus and reproduction. Besides are backwards in all there thinking.
They truly are the one per cent people in America.
1) There have been more spontaneous abortions/miscarriages than elective pregnancy terminations in the course of human history (making "god"/nature the greatest "abortionist" ever).
2) Fetuses are less sentient (and don't even have the capacity for sentience until ~30 weeks) than all the cows, chickens, and pigs raised and slaughtered, many inhumanely, for human consumption - if these people cared so much about "life" why are so many animals suffering? Oh yeah, I guess Christians are the "chosen" ones and can do whatever they think their imaginary friend in the sky "says."
3) Neither scientists, physicians, philosophers, nor theologians agree as to when "human life" begins - why should the least qualified politicians (mainly white, male, Christians) decide this matter? History has taught us politicians should not interfere with what should be a decision between a woman, her spouse/partner, and a health care provider (refer to When Abortion Was A Crime).
4) The risk of death from pregnancy and delivery is far greater than the risk of death from an elective pregnancy termination. Who do politicians think they are to interfere with a women's options do avoid a greater risk of death? Oh yeah, the chosen ones....
5) If all the fetuses (incorrectly called "babies" and "infants") go to heaven, what's all the fuss about? Banning abortions would mean all the would be aborted fetuses now have to live a life where only a minority are saved and the majority go to hell (I don't believe this nonsense, but if you believe in heaven and hell and that all these fetuses go to heaven, isn't that better than if they were born?)
6)
We should all be standing up for the reproductive rights of women. The worst places on the planet are places where women do not have reproductive rights/choices (correlated with fundamentalism/religiosity of so-called leaders"). America does not need to become like the middle east (but it seems Christians are no better than Muslims when it comes to trying to impose ridiculous, oppressive laws on women).
No what is unconstitutional is allowing abortions to happen. Unless if somebody is raped!!!!!!!!! @!$%# you dumb asses who are are in favor of allowing abortions!!!!!!!!
WOW! jstover1977, you are so well spoken...NOT! Mind your own business! Unless you are one of the parents involved in the pregnancy, it's none of your business!
Dam: Redneck: Uneducated and unwilling to suport the kids we have now without Bitching and complaining about how many people on food stamps or getting free medical. You think you care but you don't your an @!$%#:
And the person calling people dumb asses starts his rant by saying 'no what'..... You know what? I've got a great idea - why don't you get your apparently uneducated nose out of other peoples' business, jstover?
At least the guy who said that a fetus was a life even if it resulted from a rape and should not be aborted was consistent. If you truly believe life begins at conception then you can not agree with abortion in the case of rape. If you do then you condone "murder" in some circumstances. The only possible justification would be in deciding the comparative worth of a life when the choice must be made between a woman and a fetus where her life is at stake.
You can't agree with abortion in the case of rape and maintain your holier than thou attitude.
If you don't agree with abortion, don't have one. Keep your religious beliefs to your self. No one is going to make you have an abortion. You have no business denying others the right to choose.
Worry about your own uterus, or your daughters, or your wifes, and stay the hell out of every other woman/girls in the rest the Country. You are no one to judge or pass judgement on what other women do with their body. You are a sad soul, with a lonely life, whose purpose is to make others unhappy and miserable because of your unhappy and miserable life!! Take head, for you too will be judged come judgement day, remember that!!
Boy, you really stirred up the man hating, baby killing crowd. Keep up the good work.
This is the ignorant thought process that has handed the country to the socialists! Most people dont take abortions lightly and the ones that do shouldnt be parents anyhow.
You can't be serious,
I don't take abortion at all, it is impossible, because I am a man. Real Slowly: abortion is not murder; it is a legal medical procedure. So stop the murder none sense!!
Sometimes I think the worst thing we ever did was win the Civil War. I'd miss TX oil, but to get rid of the bible belt it might have been a good trade. Is the South ever going to join the rest of us in this century or will they always be a bunch of religious nutjobs?
Maybe the south will secede from the union ? Who needs Rick Perry types who have no brains ?
You people do not like America then secede and leave.
No great loss
I think the religious nutjobs may be "out-reproducing" everyone else - perhaps that's their goal. Reminiscient of Idiocracy (the movie).
Religious nut jobs is absolutely correct. These people scare me as much as the Taliban, and their beliefs are just as insane. I certainly don't base my moral decisions on stories written 2000 years ago by people who were absolutely convinced that the Earth is flat.
And an excellent movie it is as well. Nothing like accurate social commentary in entertainment.
The left is no better, they are equally wackatoo! They are just wrong on abortion other wise the south is about freedom, I like freedom!
Please tell me where it says in the constitution: Dismembering of small human beings is permissable. Watch "The Silent Scream". Does that look constitutional to you? If those babies were outside the uterus instead of in it, killing them would be considered murder. But because they are inutero...chop,chop,chop
Monika - do you eat cows, pigs, or chickens? They are more sentient than aborted fetuses prior to ~30 weeks. If you support the torture and slaughter or cows, pigs, and chickens, I find your views somewhat inconsistent (and we are not discussing "babies" - we are talking about non-viable, non-sentient fetuses). Don't get me wrong, I am not necessarily hard core, "pro-abortion" - but I cannot tell a woman she does not have a choice with respect to undergoing a greater risk of death from pregnancy and delivery than an elective pregnancy termination. And, again, history has taught us politicians should not dictate women's reproductive choices. If you want to lobby against abortion, fine, present your case to all the women out there - just leave politicians out of this.
Please tell me where in the constitution it says fetuses are considered "small human beings" and have any particular protection? Of course there is that pesky "freedom of religion" amendment that keeps you from cramming your religious beliefs down everyone else's throats whether they agree with you or not.
If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one.
Additionally, those are not how many abortions go on. That's why Doctors recommend if you're going to terminate a pregnancy, terminate it early. A chemical spike of hormones ends it FAR quicker and easier overall. Any mid and late term abortion is difficult, and risky. (Less risky than a full term and birth, but still risky.)
How absurd! WOW. Do you remember your child birth? Do you remember the pain and the oddness of your new world? People that dont want unborn babies really shouldnt have them. Why is that such a struggle?
And there within lies your answer????
I'm not against women choosing, blah blah blah (although the thought of a recognizable fetus getting killed is really disturbing), but the so-called "pro-choicers" need to stop with the moronic argument that it's a womans right because it's her body. No it isn't. It's another being. It's the baby's body, not yours dumb a$$. If you feel you have to kill your baby before it's born, I guess it's futile to try and stop it, but stop trying to get yourself off of the hook by treating it like it's a tumor being removed. It's another human.
If men had a uterus we would NEVER have this argument! BTW, it is basically no different than multiplying cancer cells early in the pregnancy...STOP TRYING TO CONTROL WHAT IS NONE OF YOUR CONCERN.
John--That's your religious version of what a fetus is. So stop that B.S. All you are doing is forcing your religion on women. Please do not tell me what legislatures or courts say about a fetus--that is fueled by the religious right.
Abortion is a women's right to choose not yours or mine. So deal with it.
@dumb-ass john: The solution to this argument isn't as simple as black and white. According to the highest court in the land--which trumps all other law, including the opinion of the church, as well as yours--because it is the woman's body that is being invaded, she does have the right to choose. And neither you, your church, nor the Arkansas legislator has the right to require otherwise.
AMEN Libsjusforall!!!!!!!!
If you hate babies so much don't have sex.
The only person that said hate is you...
@ John: Hey dumbass- The fetus is not a human being. And second of all, it is apart of the woman's body. It grows inside of her uterus. Dumbass where in the hell do you think it develops and grows! And you have the nerve to call women who believe in their right to have an abortion, dumbasses. Seriously. Please Stop. Just Stop.
Quit with this bull@!$%#. Please stop it. You are not a woman and you do not have to carry the baby for nine months and you do not have deliver it. Go somewhere and sit down and SHUT THE @!$%# UP. SHOVE YOUR OPINION UP YOUR ASS. PLEASE. Thank you. That is all.
Until you can get pregnant and carry a baby full term and then deliver it, Shut the @!$%# up. You have no say so in this discussion. You are a man. You cannot get pregnant so therefore this does not concern you.
Murder is Murder in any form and once a heart bead is discernible its a living person. So I guess all those pro choice people will eventually get what they want Murder.
YAWN!
Kid: Why don't you tell us about something that you know something about.
The Impact of Illegal Abortion
A Fact Sheet from the Abortion Access Project
Historically, women around the world have tried to end their unintended pregnancies whether abortion is legal or not, often jeopardizing their safety and health by self-inducing or seeking a dangerous illegal procedure. While there is very little relationship between abortion legality and abortion incidence, there is a strong correlation between abortion legality and abortion safety.
Sources:
1 "International Policy and Practice: Responding to Unsafe Abortion," Ipas, 2003.
2 "Medical and Social Health Benefits Since Abortion was made Legal in the U.S." Planned Parenthood Federation of America, 2002.
3 "Facts in Brief: Induced Abortion Worldwide, 2003," Alan Guttmacher Institute.
4 "The Safety of Legal Abortion and the Hazards of Illegal Abortion," NARAL Pro-Choice America Foundation, 2003.
5 "Sharing Responsibility: Women, Society, and Abortion Worldwide," Alan Guttmacher Institute, 1999.
6 "Envisioning Life Without Roe: Lessons Without Borders," Alan Guttmacher Institute, 2003.
7 "Abortion in Context: United States and Worldwide," Alan Guttmacher Institute, 1999.
8 "The Public Health Impact of Legal Abortion: 30 Years Later," Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health 35:1, January/February 2003.
Written by: The Abortion Access Project
Last revised: June 2003
Sounds like I stepped into a bunch of Lesbian Queers. As a bible thump-er Murder is still Murder. If there is medical complications that risk the life of the fetus, or mother then I agree with abortion to save a live if not its on you not me.......
Kid...sounds like you didn't make it passed the 5th grade!
"Lesbian Queers" were both descriptors necessary? My husband, thinks you are simply ridiculous!
That's right - its not on you because it is none of your business.
IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
Here is the begining of the document that formed the United States of America. It was based on RIGHTS endowed by their CREATOR. As you can see, one of them is LIFE. You are unable to leave God out of the equation because He was part of it and the basis of forming a new country. Any medical doctor or biologist will tell you that life begins at conception. No where does it say how far along it is. Further, in the 1860's the SCOTUS ruled that life begins at conception. You have prior legal precedence estabishing life.
CT150: Thanks for your enlightening post. Facts are facts, and the more facts, and the fewer myths and prejudices we can introduce into this discussion, the better.
All through human history women have worked at limiting the number of children they have. There are primitive methods of birth control and primitive methods of abortion that can be found if one knows where to look for them. But until the 20th century, birth control wasn't even discussed, let alone practiced. One can thank Margaret Sanger, Planned Parenthood, Dr. Rock, and the others who moved us out of the Middle Ages of birth control and abortion and into the modern world where such practices are accepted and carried out (well, not everywhere, and not even everywhere in this country) clinically and safely.
And let us not forget to thank the SCOTUS that found that the US Constitution's rights to PRIVACY cover the right of a woman to discuss her health issues and choices with her physician. Roe v. Wade and Griswold v. Connecticut.
Al - By your definitin we should investigate all miscarriages as homicides.
Al-524682
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
I am assuming that you are using the above to illustrate that this country's laws are based upon RIGHTS endowed by the CREATOR (God). Already you have a big problem here. The truths that are claimed to be self-evident based upon the premise that all men are created equal, and all are to be accorded the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. What is the definition of men? If you believe that it means all people, then already they violated this before the ink was dry on the paper because the Native Americans and black slaves already were considered to be exempt from these rights, as well as women who were not even allowed the right to vote, let alone do much of anything else except have babies and clean the house. Therefore, this is bs, as we can see how much laws have changed and reinterpreted since then. As far as God being part of the formation of this country, I hardly think that God was pleased by the slaughter of his people who were here first to accommodate the self-righteous feelings of entitlement portrayed by the founders of this country.
well murder is murder plain and simple.
Romans 2:!
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
The Bible has many passages for "moral" people as your self.
lol Carol, you shouldn't say anything against murder, so that someone doesn't say you're judging?
hahahhahah
It's what is being done. We give people arrested of the crime the "benefit of the doubt" but all the anti-choicers start spouting murder. You, chesty, are the joke.
Timothy Alan Cox
Murder is murder, plain and simple. Really? Not according to the laws here. Drop nuclear bombs that wipe out thousands of people, including pregnant women, because they are the enemy, or send drones to kill that end up killing some who did nothing; you got the picture. Don't forget also: first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, etc....
Amen Tim. murder pure and simple
Then be philosophically consistent and stop supporting the murder of all the cows, pigs, and chickens.
Then be philosophically consistent and stop acting like the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians our armed forces have murdered in the Middle East are not humans. Murder is murder, pure and simple, and anyone who supports the so-called war on terror has far more blood on their hands than a woman who gets an abortion.
Murder is a legal concept...so abortion does not fit that definition.
Cassandra
You made Hitler smile all the way from hell.
Blood and life are one and the same Rick, no more no less. Both forms of murder are equal. don't forget murder is acceptable in war.
Murder is also acceptable in abortions. The Supreme Court said so!!
Does anyone really think there is a place called hell? Maybe you should live as if there were such a place but, Really?