Sounds like you have the case closed yourself there URQ. Place your bets!

I can't understand his reasoning...Better to be acquitted ???....In a pigs eye....Better to have the charges dismissed !!!!....

Have the SYG Hearing....It's on the level of a Civil Trial....By a "preponderance of the evidence"....In other words....50% plus a tiny little bit....That's how it was that OJ was found Not Guilty in the Criminal Trial and Guilty of Wrongful Death in the Civil Trial.....It's not " beyond a reasonable doubt"....

Have the Hearing....if your request is denied, you get the Trial anyway....

This guy has done EVERYTHING wrong since the shooting....From not going to the hospital, to making statements to the Police without an attorney present.....going back and making a video with the cops....The Cops Are Not Your Friends...they are there to get you to say something that can be used against you....

Mike in Delray

I can't understand his reasoning...Better to be acquitted?

----------------------------------------------------

a few ideas

If Z does a SYG hearing, the State sees nearly their entire defense in advance possibly weakening it

also, the standard to rule against SYG pre trial is probable cause to believe a trial is neccessary... all the Judge needs to do is find that there is a reasonable question of law to deny the motion and go to trial.... hard to believe a Judge would rule for Z in that circumstance considering they are elected here...

so why SYG? Z's still entitled to move for SYG at the trial immediately prior to going to the jury... in fact that sounds pretty smart to me in this circumstance...

Z's gonna walk... rightfully so.

Frederick Leatherman wrote this today:

The purpose of the immunity hearing is to determine whether there is any need for a trial. If the judge grants the defendant's motion for immunity, there is no trial and no jurors need be summoned to come to court. No time has to be reserved for the trial.

There is no reason to have an immunity hearing, unless it takes place before the trial.

The defense goes first in the immunity hearing and has the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant acted in self-defense, As a practical matter, this means the defendant must testify.

The defense has no burden of proof in the trial. The defendant and the prosecution must go first and the defendant is presumed innocent.

Combining the two hearings would, in effect, deny the presumption of innocence to the defendant and that would be a major constitutional error requiring reversal.

Judge Nelson and BDLR certainly know that.

Saying something is spam does not make it so. Is that all you've got, T_V?

Well, carryingconcealed, perhaps your right, GZ will walk, but you wanna bet, he won't walk far!!

Well, carryingconcealed, perhaps your right, GZ will walk, but you wanna bet, he won't walk far!!

They'll give him his gun back.

I still feel that it was an accidental shooting and once Zimmerman lied he could not stop, because even if it was an accident he would get charged and be incarcerated, so here he is facing jail time anyway and the odds are in his favor, it does really amaze me a lot of the people that defend what he did may have GUNs and don't have the sense of a pet MONKEY, Now I wonder how they would think if the Roles were reversed and it was a their kid that was DEAD with a bag of Skittles & an Ice Tea as their only weapon and it was a Blackman that did the shooting bet they would be singing another tune then.

I don't have any legal expertise but what was mentioned is by giving up his SYG hearing he reserves his right or civil immunity hearing later. I know they are publicly saying it's better to be acquitted by jury but that's cover for real reason which could be multiple things. I'm not sure precisely what that may mean by reserving civil immunity hearing for later but I could read that as even if he is acquitted of charges (like OJ, for instance) he could still be sued in civil court and lose (like OJ, for instance) and be on the hook for a lot of money. Is this a driving factor here or am I misinterpreting the statement/process?

gemo

You used the word "should not have"... this opinion is NOT according to any law. It is NOT illegal to walk up to anyone to ask them a question (regardless the question), it is also NOT harassment to ask what a stranger's business is and what he is doing in your private community, it is in fact considered GOOD PRACTICE if you wish to keep a safe neighborhood. I visit my sister's gated community yearly and every time I walk through it alone I get asked at least 3 times who I am by the old people that live there, does this mean I can pull a Trayvon and beat their heads into the pavement because they wanted to know why I was there? I expect these people to be packing guns also and I'd be killed if I did what Tray did (its in Arizona).

No he wants all of us to be responsible when carrying a weapon. The issues here are if one is hot headed they should not carry a weapon(Gun). He wants all of us to defend ourselves, but if there are mental issues hate issues Guns should not be granted to these. That is the true debate. the media and Jim Bob have blown this way out of context. It's like a saga from GONE WITH THE WIND! want to fight with few men. no sense whatsoever. none. calm down.

it's not a racial war I am concern. it's the nuke war I am concern of. yes then we will need weapons to defend ourselves. not kill each other for the thrill of I. we are humans not barbarics. live in peace now. We all need from state to state conduct survival conferences for such days to come. The government will not be in play to help, they too will be in hiding leaving those of us to survive to fend for ourselves. If we as a nation cannot pull together in peace time, what type of country do you believe it will be or become when TRUE tragedy strikes?

As horrific as 911 was, what's headed OUR way soon in five years will make 911 look as if the people died in a swimming pool. we must stop this bickering and start really looking into some real changes for our selves. We have engineers, scientist , Nurses, educators, Doctors and common folks who by choice or not by choice are unemployed. Why not take what we have make our own survival cities. so people will not turn barbaric . as sure as I am typing, we will go back into the stone age. What do we do? Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, and other groups lets come together. Let us truly take some of the stress off the government so it can focus on keeping these United States Safe. Let's do our part as well. One cannot make this happen, it going to take a village, are you a villager? show me!

Self defense against a violent, unprovoked attack by a thug is what this case is all about

oldhamletman What do you consider legal following? Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person or monitoring them... You or anyone else follows/stalks me you can bet im gonna find out why and I wont be nice about it when I do..

the kids are insane

While I don't agree with everything carryconcealed said, there was absolutely nothing in that post about TM being black. That was all you, looking for racism, so you could refute the argument. It wasn't there. You admitted yourself that white people wear hoodies, and anyone can be a thug. So please tell me where you saw TM's race mentioned anywhere in that conversation other than in your own post.

Yes robbopaloobop, an unprovoked attack by a thug with a gun.

carryconcealed and robbopaloobop - how do we know TM attacked GZ? Because GZ said so?

So, without question, you take the word of someone who has been proven to be a liar?

I wasn't there that night and don't know exactly what went down, but GZ's story has changed more than once on this, he lied to the judge, he's been shown to have a criminal past and you believe him with no doubt in your mind?

That's where I have an issue - while I can't say I know he wasn't attacked (or was), I just don't buy the changing story and how the injuries don't fit it.

Carryingconcealed........................well said, Sir!!

This might be a bad strategy by Zimmerman's attorney, but the most likely reason is confidence that they have overwhelming evidence that it was self defense.

I think the best evidence in Zimmerman's favor is the bloody gashes on the back of Zimmermans head - obviously indicative of being attacked from behind. This case got blown way out of normal when the media showed Martin in photographs from when he was 12 years old - The reality is that Trayvon towered over Zimmerman and liked to fight.

Self defense, this case should never have been even filed. Damn media. If that thug kid punched me in the face and I had a gun I'd have blown his brains out also.

Well, carryingconcealed, perhaps your right, GZ will walk, but you wanna bet, he won't walk far!!

Sure he will if he has to use the SYG again with those who have the Trayvon syndrome.

carryingconcealed:

Wrong again.

In extreme bold text boxed on Page 22 of the National Sheriff's Association/DOJ Bureau of Justice Assistance/USAonwatch.org website Neighborhood Watch Manual;

"REMEMBER: Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities." (Italics mine for obvious reasons)

Please note ".. citizens should never try to take action on those observations." Google "never".

@ The Kids are insane:

You're right. It's sentiments like those expressed by carryingconcealed that fuel the fire. I doubt he'd have taken that stance had someone close to him been killed in similar fashion. The fact is Zimmerman clearly made assumptions that night that were based on stereotypes (just as carryingconcealed does- evidenced by his statements). Which poster here would not go into survival mode (fight or flight) if they were being followed at night by someone?

1. Whether or not Zimmerman had any legal obligation to follow the dispatcher's instructions is one thing, the fact that his decision not to follow those instructions lead to a death is another, very significant thing. Dispatchers are trained to deal with all sorts of situations and thus are better equipped to deal with potentially volatile situations than an overzealous, stereotyping, neighborhood watchman might be and this is something any rationally thinking jury member would consider. Had Zimmerman just followed the dispatcher's request, would any of this had happened?

2. If Zimmerman and his attorney thought this would fit neatly into a "Stand your ground" defense, like carryingconcealed seems to think, they would have had requested an immunity hearing and done away with the entire thing.

Trayvon Martin was the victim of Zimmerman's anger about feeling helpless to curb crime in his neighborhood. Zimmerman's actions that night were irresponsible and that's all there is to it. I'm angry about crime in my area also. I'm actively involved in my HOA and I stay vigilant as to the goings-on in my sud-division. What I don't do is assume I know the intentions of everyone that I may deem suspicious.

George Zimmerman won’t seek criminal immunity...under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law in the shooting death of unarmed black teen Trayvon Martin

Smart move!

Why should a killer make a mockery out of our justice system, and before God and the law, lie and state that he is innocent?

ProFreedom-5130956 Comment collapsed by the community

Self defense, case closed

ProFreedom,

If we all can be gunned down by the likes of Zimmerman, merely because we are walking in a neighborhood and bothering no one - then we are all in trouble.

And again, we have the Zimmerman supporters leaping to the conclusion that Martin initiated the attack on Zimmerman, because Zimmerman said so. You still fail to acknowledge that Zimmerman MUST have tried all other actions to diffuse and flee the situation before using deadly force. From the 911 tapes, that voice that you hear pleading for help is not Zimmerman's voice. Just because Zimmerman had injuries does not mean that he did not start the altercation.

Looks like at least 63 of us feel that the right to trial by jury should be abandoned. See #1 above.

More intelligent heads will prevail.....

You need to qualify that, SDN.

That number 63 represents the people who are relying on the story of a proven liar instead of reading the evidence. The evidence proves that gz is lying. The evidence incriminates gz.

Go ahead now and make your points trying to prove that gz is innocent, and I will disprove each of your points with the actual evidence. You may begin now.

this was never a stand your ground case; it is a self defense exception to the use of deadly force; his attorney made the smart decision, not to have a media trial, and have the judge not rule on a syg defense; based on the evidence so far presented, i can not see how this case will not get past a directed verdict by the judge; this is going to be one big media show.

Roy wilson,

Obviously indicative of being attacked from behind?

So, that means the gash on the back of his head could not have come, from say, being kicked in the chest while attempting to pull a fire-arm out of his jacket, being heaved off balance backwards and striking the back of his head on the (concrete) walkway's edge?

So much for the obvious being little more then one person's skewed acceptance of another person's skewed lack of imagination. Then again, you are as bad as that fool claiming 80% of deadly crimes are commited by african americans when 80% or more (likely 95%) of the mass slaying gun murders in the USA over the past couple years have been from white people. That person obviously doesn't understand statistics and only knows ignorant prejudice, such a worthless bag I do not even feel like looking back for it's name.

As americans, we always get just what we deserve, welcome to just compensation for laziness and ignorance.

yahtc:

Perhaps I was a bit too obtuse. "Us" is used as an inclusive. In fact, I don't "need to qualify" anything. Please see #1.43.

You "will disprove each of (my) points" without knowing what each may have, or not have been?

That is a bold, and foolish, assumption. I expected far better after reading your previous posts.

It is sad this young man lost his life BUT according to all reports, Trevon was a young thug in the making! He had been expelled from school for drugs and other laws he broke at such a young age. Now, hopefully his relative that he was "visiting" was trying to get him on the right path. All said, Trevon was trespassing in backyards and acting suspicions. We will never know his true intent while performing these illegal acts. I strongly believe that Zimmerman was doing the right thing and confronted Trevon. Being the rising little thug he was, Trevon attacked Zimmerman knowing he was not the police and during a beating from Trevon, shot him while he was being held down and assaulted! The Coroner said the angle of the shot and the close proximity, was consistent with Zimmerman's statement!! CASE CLOSED!

The thing that disgusts me is how the liberal *ss media turned this into a circus because Trevon was a young, black man. Young people matter your color, dont break the law, trespass, and assault people. The outcome may not be in your favor! I mourn for Trevon's parents and hope they are doing a better job raising any other children they have!

SDN,

You "will disprove each of (my) points" without knowing what each may have, or not have been?

Yes. Now, please make a point proving gz's innocence, and I will use actual evidence to disprove it.

Let's hear one of your points.

yahtc:

Did you read #1.43, or are you going off on a patently misdirected rant?

Based on very early research into the subject referenced in #1.43, I've thought that Mr. Zimmerman far exceeded any implied or expressed authority he may have imagined. He should never have made contact with the victim.

YAWN...When the lame stream media shows a picture of 17 year old Trayvon Martin instead of retreading his 12 year old picture, we can start to talk. Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and was shot fighting over a gun. Self-defense...case closed.

Let's hear your proof of his guilt first...innocent until proven guilty..that's the way it works.

what alot of you people fail to recognize is the reaction of trevon. If i were in a gated community where noone knew me and someone approached asking why I was there, i would simply answer the question,not attack them. No matter if it was dark,raining or whatever cicumstance, people up to no good do not think rationally,they over-react to simple situations.

"Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer of white and Hispanic descent,"

So how come MSN doesn't say this about PBO?

Obama a former community organizer of white and black descent

He's a murderer, plain and simple. Both the coroner and the funeral director said Trayvon Martin had a small laceration on his ring finger, nothing more. Hardly the damage that would have been done had he beaten Zimmerman.

Zimmerman had clearly been beaten by someone - just not the kid he murdered. Put him in jail for the rest of his sorry life!

Tom- Plymouth - a more fitting description of President Obama would be: a former trial lawyer; former Constitutional Law Professor; former Illinois State Senator and Former US Senator. See how different it is when you post the truth?

Jamie,

It is sad this young man lost his life BUT according to all reports, Trevon was a young thug in the making! He had been expelled from school for drugs and other laws he broke at such a young age.

First of all, Trayvon was never expelled. He was suspended three times: one time for writing WTF on a locker, one time for being tardy too much, and one time for having an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it (not as bad as President Clinton in his youth putting a marijuana butt to his lips but not "inhaling" and not like President George W. Bush who said he "made mistakes" in his youth when questioned about his past "drug" use.)

All said, Trevon was trespassing in backyards and acting suspicions.

Trayvon was a guest at the Retreat at Twin Lakes. He had every right to walk home from the store without being bothered or pursued by a gun-carrying person who had unfounded suspicions of Trayvon. Trayvon had every right to walk south on the dog path between the backyards of the townhouses because that was the direct path to his townhouse.

We will never know his true intent while performing these illegal acts.

Trayvon was not performing a single illegal act. He was simply proceeding home from the store with a bag of Skittles and a can of tea.

I strongly believe that Zimmerman was doing the right thing and confronted Trevon.

So you admit that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon even after he said "Okay" to the NEN dispatcher who told George, "We don't need you to do that" after George admitted to the dispatcher that he was following Trayvon.

Being the rising little thug he was,

Trayvon was not a thug.

Here is what Investigator Serino told gz about Trayvon:

Serino: Trayvon Benjamin Martin. He was born in 1995, February the 5th. He was 17 years old. An athlete, um, probably somewhere, somebody who was gonna be in avionautics, um, a kid with a future. A kid with folks that care. In his possession we found a, uh, can of, uh, iced tea and a bag of Skittles. And about $40 in cash. Not a goon.

If you read George's 2005 MySpace page, you will see that George was the one who acted like a thug.

Trevon attacked Zimmerman

You are believing the story of a proven liar. There is absolutely no evidence that says that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.

during a beating from Trevon, shot him while he was being held down and assaulted!

Again, this is the story of a proven liar. The forensic report said that none of gz's blood or DNA was on Trayvon's hands or lower sweatshirt sleeves which means that Trayvon could not have repeating punched, smothered, or slammed George's head into the concrete.

The Coroner said the angle of the shot and the close proximity, was consistent with Zimmerman's statement!! CASE CLOSED!

Nope. You had better watch these videos which are based on the evidence:

Click> Cardboard and Bull@!$%#, Part One

Click> Cardboard and Bull@!$%#, Part Two - Misalignment

Click> Cardboard and Bull@!$%#, Part Three - Sag

Click> Papa's Response

SDV,

Wow, I misinterpreted you post at #1.47 and had not read your post at #1.43......sorry.

I have voted up your #1.43 post.

Witness 8, the supposed "key witness" for the prosecution lied under oath. The prosecution should dismiss all charges before they are embarrassed.

SDN - he didn't take action until he felt his life was in danger. Zimmerman was attacked, or have you forgotten that? The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

correction SDV SDN

By the way, SDN, I misinterpreted your post at 1.47 because I read "63 of us" and that is why I thought you were a gz supporter.

dtrx:

"..people up to no good do not think rationally,they over-react to simple situations."

Would that statement include police officers firing 40-some shots into a pickup truck (and adjacent homes) carrying two innocent women delivering newspapers? Or wounding 9, I believe, innocent bystanders in NYC while firing at a single gunman in the street?

Seems that few of us are capable, or indeed willing, to act rationally.

dtrx, what you fail to recognize, is you have no clue what happened.

rv:

Nonsense. Every event downstream of Mr. Zimmerman's violation of every cardinal rule in the Neighborhood Watch guidebook is on his neck. Never follow someone you suspect. Never engage someone you suspect. Never carry a weapon.

If I were the prosecution, this would be both my opening and closing statements. His utter disregard for these hard and fast rules resulted in the shooting death of an unarmed citizen.

This situation and many responses to it frustrates me to no end! I live in a very nice neighborhood and I do not want my neighbors volunteering to carry guns and making decisions about possible criminal activity in my neighborhood other than calling the police and letting them handle it. Trayvon may have been up to no good, he may have attacked Zimm but since Zimmerman carried a gun, followed Trayvon and decided to use that lethal weapon under whatever circumstances actually happened at that point, Trayvon is dead and we can never hear his side of the story. Zimm should not get a pass because Trayvon is not here to tell his side of the story. Zimm could have called the police and left it at that as he should have. He has to be held responsible for his own actions which put himself in the position of shooting an unarmed teenager.

yahtc:

I'm a supporter of a fair trial for both Mr. Zimmerman, and for Mr. Martin. I have no vested interest in seeing anyone innocent convicted of any crime.

Dick-2100935 You made the comment that Trayvon's girlfriend lied, about the Funeral?

Where did you get THAT information from? The only thing they said she lied about, was

being IN the hospital, and unable to attend the Funeral.

Sounds to me, as if they have bought her off, or threatened her, if she testified and the poor

woman is so frightened, she has been forced to lie, and change her story, but she did hear

that whole thing, she KNOWS what really happened, and they are afraid that if she tells, he

will spend the rest of his life behind bars, but then again, none of us were there, so we have

no proof of ANYTHING that has been said on this blog.

In case you are not aware, MOST DISPATCHERS, TAKE THEIR ORDERS FROM A "DUTY OFFICER"

who tells them what to advise callers to do. The fact that this Dispatcher, was not a Law Enforcement

officer, does not change the fact that she was told to tell him "Following him won't be necessary, the Police

are on the way". He was told to stand down, and the fact that GZ lied to the Court about his finances,

points to his lying personality and lack of honesty. The Jury will take ALL of that information, and

the fact that he assaulted a Police Officer and his Father (another Judge) had those records, sealed, so

that GZ would not have a felony charge against him (Assault on a LEO is a FELONY). GZ is not looking

very credible, at this point. He assaulted a LEO, he followed Trayvon, instead of obeying what the

Dispatcher told him (Do not follow him) and to compound his corrupt attitude, he lied to the Court

about how much money he could post for his Bail? His wife is no better, she also lied to the Court,

corroborating GZ's story. Are those people YOU would believe, were you a jury member?

I certainly would question his integrity, if he would BOLDFACE lie to the Court. SYG is not even

the issue here. The Dead Teenager, can't tell HIS side of what happened, and now, the only person

who was a witness, has been frightened into lying? Add to this, that GZ has packed on 100 more

pounds, shows that he is not losing any sleep over this, he's enjoying his life, and doesn't even seem

to have any residual effects to his nose, or any other part of himself, from the alleged beating he took

from Trayvon.

I think Jurors will weight the evidence, and the fact that Trayvon was not even ARMED with a nail file

in his posession, shows that he was NO THUG, he was a child, going back to his Father's place, anxious

to watch a football game with his Dad. Unarmed, and 12 years younger than GZ who was a MAN

attacking and MURDERING a CHILD. FYI No one is allowed to choose, the color, or sex they are

sent to this earth with. So-called White people are not really WHITE, they are Beige, and they sure do

spend a lot of time & money trying to get darker than they are, at beaches and tanning salons, even

though so-called White people FADE after they are out of the sun for a while. So, if White people dislike

people of color, just because of their "color" (as in Segregation) why do they spend so much money trying

to make their own skin "look healthy"? I say this, because I am CAUCASIAN, and I HATE the lack of

intelligence, of those Caucasians, who hypocritically dislike people of color, but try their best to get a Tan.

Isn't it time to stop hating people because of their color, or because they are short, or tall or blonde or

brunette? Why don't people demonstrate against people with Blue eyes? That would be just as

intelligent as demonstrating against people with a different color skin.

I pray, that in my lifetime, bigotry, and racism will stop and everyone will look at each other as members

of the HUMAN RACE, and not "individual races" on the planet.

had Zimmerman not followed this suspicious young man, and he had hurt someone, we would all be singing a different tune. Zimmerman did right to follow him, and was right to defend himself from physical violence. All Martin had to do was walk away. He made the wrong choice, not Zimmerman. Now this key witness has been lying through her teeth. How about charges against those who instigated public outrage and protest by race baiting?

My thought is that George and his lawyer know how much political pressure and taint from media lynch mobs has been put on the judge.. So odds would be better to have a 12 person jury decide over a single hostile judge.. The Stand Your Ground law is just a short cut around a full trial which will expose all evidence and set precedence.. A full acquittal might even give Zimmerman an avenue to sue the Martins and several others including media sources for defamation and slander..

First of all, Trayvon was never expelled. He was suspended three times: one time for writing WTF on a locker, one time for being tardy too much, and one time for having an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it (not as bad as President Clinton in his youth putting a marijuana butt to his lips but not "inhaling" and not like President George W. Bush who said he "made mistakes" in his youth when questioned about his past "drug" use.)

They also found a pot pipe, women's jewelry and tools in his backpack - please tell the whole story. Trayvon inhaled - that's why there were only "traces" of marijuana in the bag.

SDN - was it illegal for him to carry a weapon? (That's rhetorical - you and I both know that GZ was fully within his rights to carry.) GZ called the police while he was following TM. Not 911, the police. This is actually what you are supposed to do when you are on watch.

Where Porky Pig Georgie screwed himself was the moment he called 911. If he doesn't call 911 he would have had a chance to lie his way out. Instead he was a dumb ass who let everybody know. That he was a self appointed law man packing heat.

It was the 41st time he called 911 as a self appointed lawn man on the prowl. Looking for trouble.

whenwillitcease

No he wants all of us to be responsible when carrying a weapon.

You are a blithering blind man. Can't you read, can't you observe. Feinstein et al have stated MULTIPLE times that they intend to DISARM the nation. Only ONE reason for that: Tyranny.

I am still not sure why you guys believe and wait on every word of this flip flopping LIAR you call president. Not only has he never had an original idea himself, he lies and flip flops on EVERYTHING. The only reason he was accusing Mitt of it was because he was trying to distract everyone from his own fish dance.

His utter disregard for these hard and fast rules resulted in the shooting death of an unarmed citizen.

Someone doesn't have to be armed to be life threatening. Good luck proving otherwise.

Profreedom: How could this be 'self defense' when Zimmerman's phone proves HE went after Trayvon--NOT the other way around; especially AFTER he was told: STAY IN YOUR CAR, LET THE POLICE HANDLE IT (whatever 'it' was---never really an 'it')! Methinks YOU are prejudiced against African-Americans. Zimmerman's phone records will be his downfall. I think he will get around 5 years. And..yikes! He did gain a lot of weight--maybe not 100 lbs.---but A LOT!

you all have thoughtful comments: You, my man, are so blinded by your liberal-driven desire to want to stand up for what you believe was a racial injustice, that you simply refuse to see the facts of this case, so let me help you out here . . . again:

1. GZ had every right to follow TM in order to ensure he wasn't up to no-good. It's irrelevant that he was part of the neighborhood watch because he was/is a resident and has a right to ensure the safety of that neighborhood. There had also been some recent burglaries, black people are known to burgle, TM was black, and that's all there was to that part of the story. Your problem with it is that you can't stand the fact that you believe GZ was stereotyping, which he most likely was, and guess what? Even though it may offend your fragile little liberal sensibilities, it isn't against the law for private citizens to stereotype so get over it.

2. GZ called the police and informed them of what he was observing, and got out of his vehicle to be able to keep an eye on TM while he was on the phone. It is a non-point that the dispatcher told him he didn't need to do that because the dispatcher isn't a cop and therefore had no authority to tell him anything other than when to expect the cops. You liberals won't let this part go but guess what, you're pissing into the wind here as usual because GZ broke no law getting out of his vehicle and following hoodie-wearing TM. On the contrary, if GZ had kept following and witnessed TM breaking a window of a home that wasn't his, and when the police arrived GZ had him on his face with a gun pointing at his head, you'd be hailing him as a hero for having the balls to follow him and thwart a burglary, so don't be a damn hypocrite.

3. And finally . . . in spite of the fact that it appears that TM was only coming back from the store and wasn't doing anything wrong that night, if it is proven that he confronted GZ for following him, and then a physical altercation broke out, REGARDLESS of who started that altercation, if either one of them felt that their life was in danger they were completely within their right under Florida's SYG Law to deploy deadly force. Unfortunately for TM it was GZ who felt his life was in danger, and then end-result was that TM ate the bullet and that was the end of that.

The only way GZ is going to be found guilty is if they can prove that he followed TM, caught up to him, unholstered his weapon, and shot him without provocation, which is a stretch for even the most rabid libbie like yourself.

See below for the exact wording I'm referring to Florida's SYG Law, and I would direct your attention to 2 a:

The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

rv:

Mr. Zimmerman did in fact, according to the website, violate every rule set forth by the DOJ, et al.

I'm not convicting him or exonerating him - I haven't heard all of the evidence, I'm not on the jury, I don't delude myself of my knowledge or ignorance of the case, and I don't offer nonsensical, self-serving comments in attempts to support my self-serving agenda.

Save your breath for the choir, I'm not interested in anything other than a fair trial.

dtrx,

what alot of you people fail to recognize is the reaction of trevon. If i were in a gated community where no one knew me and someone approached asking why I was there, i would simply answer the question

Trayvon asked gz "Why are you following me?" George did not identify himself nor did he ask Trayvon why he was there. This is from Investigator Serino's interview with George:

Serino:Did it ever occur to you to go ahead and actually ask this person what he was doing out there?
Zimmerman: No, sir.

Serino: (you) ….had 2 opportunities to identify yourself as somebody who was actually not meaning to do him harm. Problem being, is that we're visiting in his mind's eye, which I can't get into because he's passed, that he perceives you as a threat. OK, he perceives you as a threat, he has every right to go and defend himself, especially when you reach into your pocket to grab a cell phone.

You wrote:

No matter if it was dark,raining or whatever cicumstance, people up to no good do not think rationally,they over-react to simple situations.

Trayvon had every right to walk home from the store without being bothered by a gun-carrying pursuer. Trayvon was innocent of all of George's unfounded suspicions.

Serino: OK, this is your 911 call.
(plays tape 0:00 to 0:08)
Serino: OK, real suspicious guy.
Zimmerman: Mm hum
Serino: OK, one more time, why suspicious?
Zimmerman: Ah, it was raining and he was looking into the houses, looking behind, looking at me. He wasn't walking quickly to get out of the rain. Didn't look like he was, like, trying to head home. He didn't look like a hard-core athlete that wanted to, like, train in the rain or anything. And he just looked out of place.
Serino: OK.
(plays tape 0:07 to 0:21)
Serino: On drugs why?
Zimmerman: Oh, cause he just kept looking around, looking behind him, looking, just kept shifting where he was looking.
Serino: OK
(plays tape 0:23 to 0:39)

Serino: …like I said, the, the child has no record at all, no violent tendencies. Out of his nature to do this kind of reaction. I don't know if he thought that you were trying to punk him, or, you know, be a, some sort of weirdo or something. Out of his nature.

Serino: So something's wrong with him.
(plays tape 1:18 to 1:20?)
Serino: What's that statement supposed to mean?
Zimmerman: I don't know.
Serino: OK.

Oh, my, god! He had a pipe and baggies and jewlery! He's a THUG! Get a @!$%#ing life.

'white and Hispanic descent'

When is the last time you heard Obama referred to as being from 'white and Kenyan' descent?

Mr. Zimmerman did in fact, according to the website, violate every rule set forth by the DOJ, et al.

What website is that? Please, provide backup. It isn't in this story, and really, GZ broke EVERY RULE?!?

Save your breath for the choir, I'm not interested in anything other than a fair trial.

You are not. Look at your comments - you are parroting everything that the liberal media has put out there. Oh, and I try not to preach to the choir - they already believe.

Oh, my, god! He had a pipe and baggies and jewlery. He's a THUG! Get a @!$%#ing life.

A pot pipe, baggies with marijuana, WOMEN'S jewelry, and tools. Stop it. The prosecution has the burden of proof, and if you think that Trayvon's character is not going to come into question, well, you are a fool. He wasn't an angel - sorry if that distorts everything that you were programmed to believe.

Trayvon had injuries to his knuckles - which is consistent with GZ's story.

you all have thoughtful comments:

When you say that Trayvon "was innocent of all of George's unfounded suspicions", what exactly are you basing that on? You know for a fact that he wasn't lurking, looking in windows, acting suspiciously?

Newsflash: you do not have a right to be lurking or loitering in public or on someone else's property and not have your presence questioned, not have someone watch you, call the cops on you, even attempt a citizens arrest on you. It doesn't matter if Zimmerman was neighborhood watch or just a concerned citizen, armed or not. Rights were not violated until Martin returned to the scene solely to engage in a physical assault.

And to those who are scratching their heads on this decision by his lawyers: SYG was not in play here. SYG is specifically applied when someone uses force to stop force. Once force is already in play (i.e. when Martin physically attacked Zimmerman) then it becomes a traditional matter of self-defense.

carryconcealed:

Interesting.

In #1.16, you stated that "1. He had every right to follow TM because it's his neighborhood and he was part of the neighborhood watch crew."

In #1.77 you stated that "It's irrelevant that he was part of the neighborhood watch..."

Your 'arguments' are hysterical, verbose, nonsensical (see above), and above all boorish in the extreme. Save the clever retorts, you haven't the tools.

I think it's pretty pathetic how some of you posters have turned this into some sort of football game. You just want to see your "team" win, even if it was wrong. Regardless of the outcome of the sham trial assuredly on the way, the 17yo victim did not commit a crime. Nice job on talking @!$%# about a dead kid. Perhaps karma will blow up Zim's heart before you get your kicks on hearing a verdict.

CarryingConcealed, you wrote:

GZ had every right to follow TM in order to ensure he wasn't up to no-good.

No, I disagree.

If Trayvon NOT was not doing that activity, George should not have follow followed Trayvon. He should have waited for the police to come and follow up on your NEN call. This is the core of what George did WRONG!

The important thing the important thing is that George did not see a burglary in progress.

George tells the dispatcher that there have been break-ins. ONLY to George does this justify following Trayvon to see if Trayvon was going to commit a burglary.

Again--

George should not have followed Trayvon just to see if Trayvon was going to commit a burglary..

George knew how to do things properly.

.

But, the night of February 26, it seem to me, that he revealed to the dispatcher his motive AND his mission..........."These a$$h@les, they always get away." He told the dispatcher in a quiet tone that indicated that the current system is flawed because they ALWAYS get away. The implication was that he would do things differently.

HOW DIFFERENTLY was vividly demonstrated by George's action that night.

CoRavensFart:

'white and Hispanic descent'

Frederick Leaterman wrote this on his law blog:

The simple truth is that this defendant self-identified as white until after he killed Trayvon Martin. When he was accused of racially profiling Trayvon, he rather conveniently decided that calling himself White Hispanic and more recently Afro Peruvian would dispel any suspicions that the killing was racially motivated.

Instead, given the convenient timing of his declarations and his confusion of race with nationality unintentionally showcases his intellectual limitations and the desperate lengths to which he will go to deny that he is a racist.

He doth protest too much, methinks.

the 17yo victim did not commit a crime

Well yes, actually he did. He committed the first - and if Zimmerman is exonerated, the only - verifiable crime of the event when he returned to the scene with the explicit intent of hurting if not murdering George Zimmerman. It's called assault (if not attempted murder) and unlike anything Zimmerman did or did not do that night, is a clear and threatening violation of someone's rights.

Otto, only the story of a proven liar states that Trayvon returned and attacked Zimmerman. There is absolutely nothing in the evidence that says Trayvon attacked George Zimmerman.

I am a democrat, and I believe Zimmerman is not guilty. If I were being followed by a security or police that would be no problem cause I'm not doing anything wrong. Martin had a chip on his shoulder, had a problem with authority figures. I don't believe Martin would be dead if he had not physically assaulted Zimmerman he had to defend himself against a brutal attack, anyone would have. And there is proof that Martin attacked Zimmerman. Yes Zimmerman maybe should not have followed him, but that is not a crime, what Martin did because he was pissed that Zimmerman was following him is a crime.

First of all are we supposed to feel sorry for Zimmerman because he has gained 100 lbs over the last year and has had to be in hiding all year. Remember Trayvon's life was cut short at a very young age and there are many many things that he will never get to experience in life. Zimmerman is alive - Trayvon is dead!!! So no sympathy for Zimmerman here. People forget that George Zimmerman initially told 5 different stories about what occurred on that fateful night, went into court and lied to the judge (any moron has the smarts to know that isnt a smart move). Then he tried to embezzle the money for his defence fund by having his wife withdraw it little by little to pay bills etc. Also we discovered that George was on mood altering drugs (everyone is making such a big deal about a baggie with trace elements of pot) that can make a person paranoid or anxiety ridden. And everyone assumes that Trayvon was a thug in the making because they have obviously not gone thru the teen years with their kids to know that you can appear to be a thug for a few years going thru the teens and still end up being great people in the end. Of course Zimmerman will walk because he is the only one talking. We never got to hear Trayvon's side of the story and some people have chosen to believe every little thing Zimmerman says even though he is a proven liar. But again we have heard all the details of this thru media so one must wait for all the evidence in this case before passing judgement. Zim has a great lawyer who knows what he is doing (again pro bono) so between that and just needing to convince one juror there is reasonable doubt and I am sure Zim's lawyer can do that. What still amazes me is that he is walking free on second degree murder charges. I just hope that having killed a young boy will haunt Zimmerman the rest of his life because he did at least admit to murdering Trayvon. Somehow though I think he will be far to concerned about himself to really give it much thought. I may have to accept a verdict of not guilty after the trial but I dont have to like this guy and I dont.

Zimmerman was an over zealous moron toy cop trying to be Buford Pusser. He disregarded the police dispatch saying not to follow, he said f*$king coons and other stuff as heard on the recording as he continued pursuit. He confronted the kid, somehow an alleged physical confrontation ensued. So, what happened to the tough guy zimmerman? He claims he was getting his ass beat.

To a-lot of you morons, it is perfectly fine to just pull your weapon and shoot? Perhaps self defense courses would have helped this idiot who outweighed Martin by what? Up to 100 lbs? Had he listened to police dispatch this would not have happened. Had he any idea as to approaching a possible confrontation he could have simply kept and maintained distance, this would put you automatically on the defense and more alert, more time to react if something actually started to happen.

A kid would be alive today if the assh*!e playing toy cop was anything resembling competent.

Thatstheway: Twayon was just an itty bitty child wit his widdle bag of skittles.

God Speed to innocence Mr. Zimmerman.

Now let me put it like this.

If ya live in my neighborhood or anywhere I may travel and you are not my family, well, let's say your lilly a$s gets attacked or your precious little home of valuables is about to be robbed.

Yeah, i'm gonna leave a small crack in the blinds or park somewhere I can see from the corner of my vehicles window so I can watch.

Let's hope ya don't need Cpr or a place to sleep, because I won't help ya. It's simply no longer worth the trouble and your not worth the risks or the money I would probably need to defend myself in this socialist give me society. Most of you people are Pathetic.

There is absolutely nothing in the evidence that says Trayvon attacked George Zimmerman.

I'm talking in the actual evidence, not what is reported by welovetrayvon.com. I think the broken nose, lacerations, grass stains, abrasions on Martin's hands etc. support the polic account more than your generic rejection of it.

JMarine - so you can put yourself in the heart and mind of George Zimmerman (while still adhering to theories that have been dismissed long ago) but not Martin? But let me guess, Martin was just skipping home with his candy, minding his own business and when he realized he was being stalked by a salivating, rabid white person, he justifiably hulked up in order to defend his innocence.

Pathetic.

A pot pipe, baggies with marijuana, WOMEN'S jewelry, and tools. Stop it. The prosecution has the burden of proof, and if you think that Trayvon's character is not going to come into question, well, you are a fool. He wasn't an angel - sorry if that distorts everything that you were programmed to believe.

Trayvon had injuries to his knuckles - which is consistent with GZ's story.

He had a pipe, big @!$%#ing deal, it's a pipe, not a weapon. Baggies with RESIDUE. Womens jewelry, so what? He wasn't charged with ANYTHING for that. He had a SCREWDRIVER, and this is "tools"? I have a million screwdrivers, I have a pipe and I have womans jewlery in my house. I guess that makes me a thug huh? Dumbass...

As for the knuckles, he had a very SMALL bruise, not really consistent with "beating someone within an inch of their life"

He had no record, yet, z did, and for assault. How ironic....

yahtc: George had every right to follow Trayvon. Period. Trayvon did not have the right to assault and beat him for that. Period. Any attitude that excuses Trayvon's behavior is a danger to a civilized and decent society.

InterestedObserver, there is no evidence that Martin threw any punches that were not provoked. He could have been defending himself, and to say otherwise is pure speculation on your part. There is no evidence that shows that Martin initiated contact with Zimmerman, which leaves reasonable doubt that Zimmerman could have started the conflict.

InterestedObserver, perhaps you may wish to read the following which addresses some of the issues you have commented on.

The following is an article by Frederick Leatherman from his law blog:

Do not fail to see the forest for the trees in Zimmerman case

March 3, 2013

Sunday, March 3, 2013

Greetings to everyone.

I write today to present a simple theory of the case that illustrates the KISS rule.

The prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed murder in the second degree when he killed Trayvon Martin. That is, that shooting Trayvon was "an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life." See 782.04(2), Fla.Stat.

The jury will be provided with these definitions to apply in deciding whether the prosecution satisfied its burden of proof:

An "act" includes a series of related actions arising from and performed pursuant to a single design or purpose.

An act is "imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind" if it is an act or series of acts that:

1.a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another, and

2.is done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent, and

3.is of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life.

In order to convict of Second Degree Murder, it is not necessary for the State to prove the defendant had an intent to cause death.

(Florida Supreme Court Pattern Jury Instruction 7.4)

Notice that the prosecution is not required to prove that the defendant intended to kill Trayvon or that he violated any law by following him.

Notice too that, given this set of definitions, the killing would constitute an act "imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life," if the jury finds that the prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense.

For the following reasons, I believe that the evidence will establish beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was the aggressor.

We can tell from the NEN recording that he got out of his vehicle to follow Trayvon because he admitted that he did.

He also agreed not to follow him when the dispatcher told him "We don't need you to do that."

We know that he lost Trayvon because he admitted that he did not know where he was after he said, "He ran."

We know that he was frustrated and feared Trayvon would escape because he said, "@!$%#ing coons" (or punks, if you prefer) and "these @!$%#s, they always get away."

We know that he disregarded the dispatcher's admonition to not follow Trayvon because he asked the dispatcher to tell the officer en route to call him on his cell phone after he arrived in the neighborhood, instead of agreeing to meet him at a specific location, such as the clubhouse or his parked vehicle.

We know he lied to the police when he said Trayvon emerged from behind some bushes and jumped him at the T-intersection of the sidewalks as he was walking back to his parked vehicle because there are no bushes there. Also, Trayvon's body and the spent shell casing ejected from his KelTec 9 semiautomatic were found 40 feet south of the T-intersection, which is inconsistent with his claim that the shooting occurred where he was knocked to the ground.

There are many other problems with the defendant's statements that we have identified and discussed ad nauseum. Suffice to say that the evidence I have mentioned here is sufficient to establish that the defendant followed Trayvon in his vehicle, lost him when Trayvon ran out of sight behind a row of townhouses, got out of his vehicle, ran after him with the intent of finding him and preventing his escape, and subsequently lied to police when he denied following him insisting instead that Trayvon jumped him at the T-intersection as he was walking back to his vehicle.

Since he was hunting with the intent of preventing this particular "@!$%#ing coon" (or @!$%#ing punk, if you prefer) and this particular "@!$%#" from getting away and lied about that to the police, I do not believe the jury will have any difficulty concluding that he killed Trayvon during an attempt to prevent him from getting away.

However, the defendant had no legal cause to touch, much less physically restrain Trayvon.

Trayvon, on the other hand, had the legal right to use reasonable force to resist the defendant's use of force to restrain him.

Nevertheless, I do not believe Trayvon attempted to hit the defendant or slam his head against a cement sidewalk because no trace of the defendant's blood or DNA was found on his fingernail clippings or on the lower sleeves of the two sweatshirts he was wearing. Even if he did, however, the injuries were minor and required no stitches and the defendant declined several offers by EMTs and police to take him to the ER for a check-up.

Those minor injuries were insufficient to create a reasonable fear in the defendant's mind that he was in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. This conclusion is amply supported by his vital signs, which were all normal a mere 15 minutes after the shooting.

If I were the judge deciding this case instead of a jury, I would enter the following Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law based on the evidence I have discussed.

FINDINGS OF FACT

1. the defendant created the situation that ended with Trayvon's death;

2. the defendant never told Trayvon who he was or that he was a neighborhood watch person, despite at least two opportunities to do so as noted by Investigator Chris Serino in his capias request;

3. Trayvon was a guest staying at Brandi Green's residence and had a right to be where he was at all times relevant to this tragedy;

4. the defendant believed Trayvon was "up to no good" even though Trayvon was not engaged in any suspicious activity;

5. The defendant followed Trayvon first in his vehicle and then on foot with the intent of preventing him from escaping from the neighborhood as other "@!$%#ing coons" (or @!$%#ing punks, if you prefer) and "@!$%#s" had done in the past.

6. The defendant was the aggressor and had no legal basis or reason to touch, much less use any force against Trayvon to restrain or detain him for any purpose;

7. Trayvon would have been justified in using reasonably necessary force to stand his ground and prevent the use of force against him, including using deadly force since deadly force was used against him.

8. There is no credible evidence that Trayvon ever struck or injured the defendant, but if he did, his use of force was lawful and justified in self-defense.

9. The defendant's injuries were minor and he was never in imminent danger of death or suffering serious injury.

CONCLUSIONS OF LAW

1. The defendant was the aggressor at all times relevant to this confrontation and his use of force was unlawful.

2. The defendant's aggressive course of conduct and his use of deadly force by shooting Trayvon Martin in the heart without lawful justification was an act "imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life."

3. The defendant committed the crime of Murder in the Second degree.

In conclusion, I want everyone to realize that arguments regarding whether the dispatcher had the authority to order the defendant to not follow Trayvon, or whether the defendant violated any law by following Trayvon, are irrelevant.

The relevant issues are what did the defendant do and what did he intend to do when he did it. For example, it does not matter whether the dispatcher had the legal authority to order him to not follow Trayvon. What matters is that he agreed not to follow Trayvon while he was running after him, he kept on hunting for him until he found him, and then he lied about it to the police because he wanted them to believe he had complied with the dispatcher's request.

jw101, we support Zimmerman being found guilty of pre-meditated murder in the First Degree. In Florida this is a mandatory death penalty. Zimmerman, the BIG man, stalked a teen, engaged and the shot the kid. He has admitted as much. Zimmerman's attorney most likely advised him not to go to a SYG hearing since if found in violation he would have been summarily found guilty in a trial and most likely sentenced to First or at a minimum Second Degree murder. Let justice prevail in the heat of the Florida cracker court system. Only a Bush could love such a system of cracker judges.

The reason this coward did not go for a SYG is that he knows his contention of being in harms way was brought on by his own zealous attempt to prove he is a man's man. He was going to get himself a trophy buck one way or the other. Well this trophy will cost him dearly and rightfully so. I do hope justice prevails and Zimmerman is found guilty of murder and summarily sentenced to Raeford prison. Some fresh quail meat for those boys in Raeford until his day of reckoning comes. I bet his punk ass cries like a baby once he has a few visitors at night wanting some fresh quail meat. BIG brave Zimmerman should have thought all of this through before taking the law into his own hands as judge, jury and executioner. He better hope mommy and daddy sends plenty of KY as he will need it in Raeford.

Sounds like Georgia is getting himself fattened up for Bubba. You know what they say More cushion for the pushing. Don't forget the lube Georgia, you're gonna need it!

The bottom line: Zimmerman had a right to follow Trayvon because he was a black kid walking home in the rain with a hoodie on, and since black people are criminals by default in our culture Trayvon should have known to have immediately dropped prone on the ground and give every and any random white guy with a gun and a wild hair up their azz the full respect their racial caste DEMANDS.

Here's the evidence: 1) Trayvon was black, so already he's guilty of SOMETHING, right? Black kids aren't allowed out at night, so he must've done something or was planning to do something because, you know, we're negroes after all. 2) Investigations into Martin's past reveal he once was found with a baggie with marijuana residue, and since all people who smoke weed are by definition thugs he, and really anyone who has ever smoked marijuana, are subject to being shot for their usage. Good thing little white boys and girls never get high off anything other than spraypaint, crystal meth, drugs found in their parents cabnets, and lots and lots of alcohol, so its pretty obvious who the thugs are in our society: anyone who uses marijuana. If it turns out that after you killed a black kid you find out he may have had a baggie with marijuana residue call up your lawyer and arrange bail because you're going free, my pale-faced friend; you just rid the world of another vile pot smoker, and they all should die for what they do to themselves smoking a plant like that. And 3) Trayvon did attack Zimmerman because he was obviously hopped up on ice tea and sugar from the Skittles, because that's what black people do. No one want to admit this but black people are more prone to go wild when sugar, tea, and artificial fruit coloring are combined with oxygen and rainwater. It is part of the reason we sold each other into slavery, and really why whites were FORCED to buy slaves they never wanted nor asked for and made to use them as slaves for generations UNDER DURESS, because whites, being the noble and paternal altruistic saints of God they are took pity on the poor black man and their problems digesting refined sugar products and processed tea leaves and gave us all jobs and houses and other free stuff because, well, we all love free stuff (ask white guys about liking free stuff and FHA housing loans and Homestead Act land giveaways and the first 30 years of Welfare when ONLY whites got governmental handouts and "free checks" for having babies... oh white people just LOVED welfare when it was only white. There were campaign after political campaign all through the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s that celebrated giving white people free stuff, but all that changed when they had to share the country with the rest of us).

So the bottom line, given the evidence, is that Zimmerman was justified in shooting Martin because he was obviously guilty of something. And since race plays no part in this whatsoever if Zimmerman was to go free for this shooting it should send the message that ANY kid walking alone at night in a hoodie can be forced to submit to any random guy with a gun who doesn't think that kid belongs where they are found, and are allowed to shoot them if it turns out that same kid, be they white or black (because remember no prejudice or racial double standard here; just an honest citizen slaying an obviously thugish negro (because, remember, we're not allowed to go out at night), one had a baggie with marijuana residue because, as we have established, anyone using weed are thugs by definition. Anyone, even Silicon Valley engineers or computer geniuses like Steve Jobs (or shall I say "Steve Gangbanger").

So fair is fair: if you are a kid walking about the streets in a hoodie with a history of holding empty bags of weed and you don't submit to random gun nuts wanting to know why you are out and about being all black and scary (or white and scary, I suppose; these arguments always seem to imply whites aren't suspicious by design so I guess if you want to stop one using this technique you have to be pretty sure, like Zimmerman, that they are "on something" or have done your due dilligence and made sure they were a drug-smoking thug before you start SYG on them. Their color should tip you off, but in the absense of blackness just make sure to make them out to be as black as possible to the officer on the scene. They'll understand and have crack handy to sprinkle on the deceased to collaborate your story).

Seeking - When was PBO a trial lawyer?

But I will give you this

Obama would be former Constitutional Law Professor; former Illinois State Senator and Former US Senator of white and black descent

i am white and i have been stopped in white neighborhoods where i was unfamiliar. it is reasonable to keep an eye on the places where your children are in potential danger, which unfortunately includes their own neighborhood these days. i hold nothing against people wanting to keep their kids and possessions safe, even when i am the butt of it. i said yes sir, no sir, proved i lived nearby, showed my ID, was totally respectful about it, and here i am typing things on the internet today. this is how neighborhood watch works

SDN - The only contradiction here is that you incorrectly believe yourself to be some self-anointed master of prose when , in fact, you just come across like a crass tool.

In #1.16, you're correct that I stated "He had every right to follow TM because it's his neighborhood and he was part of the neighborhood watch crew."

And you're also correct that in #1.77 I stated that "It's irrelevant that he was part of the neighborhood watch..."

Ignoring the fact that like a typical liberal you took only an excerpt of the 1.77 post to suit your own purpose, I intentionally stated that his participation in the neighborhood watch was group was irrelevant because at the end of the day, the only justification he needed to follow TM was that he lived in that neighborhood, there had been recent break-ins, and he was alarmed by a black guy in a hoodie skulking around.

Now if this is too difficult for you to comprehend just let me know and I'll re-print it in ebonics, tool.

Stand Your Ground applies to verbal confrontations? that law is not meant to excuse assaulting someone. it does not matter what someone says to you, you have no right to get violent

For those asking carryingconcealed if he really is that crazy please refer to his other blogs via his profile. This guy is pretty much as conservative as you can get. His comments often times are inflammatory and yes he is most definitely a racist. I am never surprised with his ridiculous rhetoric. His name really says it all. Why are you carrying concealed who do you have to fear guy huh? Do you carry large amounts of cash for your job? Do you live in a crime ridden area and you walk everywhere or are you just an idiot that feels like a big man with your gun? It's not everyone elses fault you have a small member guy you don't have to try and prove you have a big one with your gun ok?! Hahaha. Ebonics really? How about i speak dense cowboy for you to understand? YOU CANNOT BE A VIGILANTE! I hope zimmerman gets his and more than llikely he will serve some sort of punishment. This BOY was walking home from buying a pack of skittles. O my I'm terrified. Even if he looked suspicious, call the police and let them handle it for the sake of everyones safety on the block. This isn't the wild-west.

ashp - Rather than you speaking "dense cowboy" how about you just get hooked on phonics. Judging by your toddler-level writing you could use a class or ten.

By the way, congratulations on your sweeping, inflammatory characterization of everyone who's ever worn a cowboy hat, participated in a rodeo or worked on a ranch.

You're nothing but a bigot, bigot.

Oh, and to answer your question of why I carry a concealed weapon . . . because the goddamned 2nd Amendment says I can, liberal-boy.

Carryingconcealed, as a CC licensed individual, Zimmerman also carried the responsibility to act responsibly. This includes announcing himself, his position, and his intentions to young Trayvon Martin. You cannot have the CC license without accepting the responsibilities that come with it.

Great comment filled with wonderful sarcasm, Ciewywtb!

I completely disagree with you, ChrisFromCincy.

Colorado is an open-carry state, which means that anyone who can legally own a firearm can carry one on their person as long as it's exposed. To get a concealed carry permit, though, one has to go through mandatory training as well as apply to the Sheriff's department and pay a fee.

I can assure you that there is nothing in that training class, nor on Colorado's books, that requires a CC permit holder to announce anything to anyone. If you did that what would be the point of having a concealed weapon?

For instance, if I'm in a 7-11 and some knucklehead walks in brandishing a firearm and yelling at everyone, provided he doesn't shoot me before I'm aware that he's there, I'm going to pull my weapon and put him down without saying a word. He'll die and probably never know why.

I may carry a concealed weapon, but you would never know it if you met me, you'd never see it, and that's the way it should be. I would never EVER wantonly make reference to having a weapon on me or lift my shirt to show it to someone who was being aggressive. That weapon will never come out of its holster unless I need it to defend my own life, my family's life, or some stranger(s) when I'm outside my home, and that's the proper way to carry concealed.

It comes with a tremendous amount of responsibility and I admit that there are many who probably shouldn't be allowed to have a CC permit, but the law allows it and so that's the way it is. However, I'll also point out that none of these a$$holes who've been committing mass murder have been CC permit holders.

The only person I would declare to would be a cop, and I'm not even obligated to do that. However, out of fairness for what they have to deal with I would let him know right away I was carrying and that it was loaded.

Why

Sounds like Georgia is getting himself fattened up for Bubba.

Dont you mean DeAndre, DeShawn, De Antonio, Lil Douchebag, DeBillyBob(babymama was working the rodeo that year) and all the rest of the bruthas that are caged up, seems like Bubba would be protecting GZ against the massive amounts of blacks that are in cages.