i hope the little girl makes a full recovery! now a gang banger shot in chicago im shocked. how can this happen in such a safe city? isnt obamas boy rohm running things there! maybe he has the same blinders on that his old boss uses.

Let's see now............ are we in the drug infested gang-banger part of Chicago?

Why would anyone want to have babies in such a place?..... as all you do is endanger their lives. Is the father involved in the drug scene? Did he stiff the drug supplier on the next street corner? What's the REAL STORY here?

Perfect example right here in this article.

13dev, "Police said Watkins [the father who was shot] has known gang affiliations."

Somethings FISHY, with this situation!

Gangs are the cancer of society.

Simple facts:

1st: This might not have happened if the NRA let Chicago keep it's gun ban

Simple fact:

Scumbags who shoot children are not worried about some gun ban.

Firearms laws only affect law abiding citizens!

Chicagos crime rate was just as high with their gun ban and it is almost impossible for the average law abiding citizen to obtain a CCW permit in Chicago

Liberals blaming the N.R.A. again. How typical. This has nothing to do with the N.R.A. The blame revolves around the animals of the Thug Culture, not the law abiding citizens of the Gun Culture. Afterall, only one of these cultures breeds criminals and in Chicago it is an infestation. Has been for years and sadly it will not end soon.

And yet our governemnt is hardly doing anything with gangs.

Gangs should be punished as if they are domestic terrorists.

The PROBLEM people, is that Rham is not posting enough "Gun free zone" signs in his city. I mean seriously, what good are the strictest gun laws in the US if criminals don't know about them?

Come ON Rham! Tax the middle class and get this done! How many more children must die?!?!

Police said Watkins has known gang affiliations.

I'm shocked they even put that in the aricle, it takes removes the victim appeal.

Keep ignoring the real issue, gangs. But continue to pursure the red herring, gun control. Is this baby going to be the left's new face of gun control now that the press can't find any more ways to exploit Hadiya for their agenda?

It's just another beautiful day in the gangsta-hood...

Stocks are up..That's all we care about, sad but true.

Police said Watkins has known gang affiliations.

Poor child never had a chance.

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars!

ExYahooUser

1. The NRA has not gotten guns in the hands of Law abiding Citizens yet in Illinois.

2. The State of Illinois and Chicago are still dragging their feet on allowing Law Abiding Citizens to carry guns so it is very difficult to get a permit.

3. I don't think the person who shot these two was legal to carry and was part of the criminal element which is the reason law abiding citizens need guns.

4. The NRA does not sell or license guns. They promote gun safety and teach thousands of people yearly on gun safety and proper use of a firearm. The AAA teaches car safety classes but that does not mean there are less crashes.

dman-353357

By FEDERAL LAW

A car and a license to drive is a priviledge and is not guarenteed

Yes you are correct that a gun is not a necessity however:

A gun is a constitutionally protected right.

First i would bet the shooter was in his young teens,and that was probably his assignment to become a gangbanger. The president scares people with his threats of the sequester. What does it cost in these gang infested cities to doctor these shooting and stabings everynight?A lot of the gangbangers are illegals,and the rest of them,their parents don't have no idea where they even are.Not gun control is needed but gang control. Go after these kids parents and lock them up for not raising there kids. They can have them for a tax write off,but they can't raise them. Remember the kids a couple of days ago getting killed in a stolen van? most of them in there young teens. How many parents knew where they were and what they were doing. I'm 66 years old and a disabled vet and i have a 9 year old grandson that i have raised since he was 3 months old. I adopted him,and i live alone. His teacher said she wish all her students were like him. All it takes is alittle time and love to raise these kids.

A note to the gangbangers: If you're going to hang with the homies, don't have children. This dude most likely cost his child any opportunity for a decent life because he wants to be a thug. He's as much to blame as the shooter.

Only positive I can see is that he was actually interacting with his child.

As of Monday, shooting incidents in the city are down 19 percent year-over-year, he said.

So glad to see they are making such great progress. They have reduced shootings by such a huge amount and even stll there were over 500 murders last year. Using the police supt's number that means there were 625 they year before and 781 the year before that.

ExYahooUser wrote:

Simple facts:

1st: This might not have happened if the NRA let Chicago keep it's gun ban.

2nd: It's easy for the cops to claim someone had gang affiliations and thus "asked for it".

3rd: It's extremely rare for someone to use a gun to defend themselves against an unknown surprise attacker.

Response: Actually GUNS ARE USED FOR SELF DEFENSE AT LEAST 100,000 TIMES PER YEAR!

David Hemenway, an eminent public-health scholar at Harvard University, and a gun
control advocate- admits his research indicates that guns are used for
defensive purposes 100,000 times per year in the USA. Making various
reasonable-sounding adjustments, other social scientists have suggested that
perhaps a figure somewhere between 250,000 and 370,000 might be more accurate.

This comes from an article in Bloombergs Business Week from December- hardly known
for their gun advocacy. Google "businessweek how often are guns used in self defense" to find the article.

dman-353357

Yeah, like a gun is a necessity.

I don't recall a vehicle being one either.

PigLizard,

Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. Illinois overall has some of the strictest gun laws. They were even stricter before some were struck down before the courts. You are correct about guns not being banned outright, but since gun control folks are prevented from doing that by the Constitution (see DC vs Heller decision) they try to impose a de-facto ban by making access to firearms as difficult as possible for law-abiding citizens.

Chicago, and Illinois, should have enforced the laws they had on the books before disarming the law abiding citizens and considering the job done. You cannot legislate criminals into stopping illegal activity, especially when you get so lax on sentencing when they do commit a crime. Criminals have no respect for the police, the criminal justice system, laws and especially the law abiding public. When a gun control person can effectively argue these points, I will listen to the other side again. Being afraid of something is no reason to take it away from everyone else. Grow a pair, get a grip and realize that Utopian edicts are not the answer to this problem. The answer is to make criminals so afraid of using guns illegally that they turn in their guns themselves. You don't accomplish that by slapping them on their wrist when they commit murder, armed robbery, ect.

nogodnomaster

And yet our governemnt is hardly doing anything with gangs.

Gangs should be punished as if they are domestic terrorists.

Very true, and a good point.

However, the government, especially during the reign of Obama and Holder, will do nothing to curtail gang activity since it is so intertwined with black culture. In order to effectively go after the gangs, they would have to actively and aggressively profile members of the black community.

We all know they would rather punish the entire rest of the country and its law-abiding citizens than to go after the black criminals. Justice will not be served.

I lived in and around Chicago for nearly 35 years. It has always been a violent place, but under the leadership of Mayors Daley (both), Harold Washington, and Jayne Burne the city worked and worked well. Now with Emanuel and his administration bumbling along without a clue and of course blaming others for all their ill's and issues, it is quickly turning into another well known cesspool named Detroit. Sad, really sad ...

I was raised with the definition of gun control being "the ability to control the weapon in order to hit your target", fortunately the shooter here was not raised that way.

Gun control isn't the issue here people, IT'S CRIME CONTROL!!!! There were only 10 shots fired according to a witness, so the shooter obviously didn't have an "assault weapon." BTW, aren't all weapons by definition "assault weapons"? Everyone against personal weapon ownership is so worried about high capacity magazines in the AR-15 style weapons, they forget that some handguns have a 15 round capacity, or 16 total with one in the chamber. Also, with the varieties of ammunition out there, a handgun is as capable of doing as much damage as an "assault weapon".

Bless the victims of this senseless act of violence, especially the infant and may they recover fully.

It's time for the law enforcement community to get the aid they need in order to get these thugs off the streets. It's time for government to step up to the plate and declare total war on those would mindlessly fire a weapon with total disregard about where their bullets go.

IT'S TIME TO BUILD MORE PRISONS, HIRE MORE LAW ENFORCEMENT AND GET THESE PARIAH OFF OUR STREETS!

Hey, it's Chicago.

The solution is so obvious that only a blind idiot ignores it.

Own an illegal gun - Mandatory 10 year prison sentence.

Use a gun in a crime - Mandatory 20 year prison sentence.

"known gang member"

Why doesn't Chicago pass laws against GANGS?

Gang member? Firing squad at dawn............

Liberals only makes it more difficult for people that obeys the laws cannot be protecting themselves, women have been raped because, she have not been able to purchase a gun for self-defense, because the license is expensive and the formalities are very cumbersome , being criminals the only ones who possess weapons , in places where crime is higher, which doesn't make any sense. The anti- gun people , do not bother to reduce the crime, focusing its efforts to eliminate the sources of the problem, why it is easier for politicians draw attention, creating laws to control the sale of weapons, that to decrease the delinquency, which is what causes the greatest amount of dead.While liberals make news by the mass killings in Colorado, pass unnoticed mass killings in Washington DC where 16 people were injured or killed as a result of a shootout between criminals in poor African- Americans neighborhoods , Similar cases of Chicago and other cities of democrats in control.

@Steve, I agree with you completely! On the flip side, we'd be called racist for doing away with them.

If he can rap well he can possibly become another famous gang banger, rap artist that the children can look up to and immitate. MTV would love that.

So answer me this how does a "Good Guy" w/a gun defend himself when someone comes up from behind and shoots at him while holding a baby?.. Personally my first instinct would be to make sure I save the child I was taking care of and NOT drop her in favor of reaching for my "Good Guy Gun". So how silly does the Good Guy with a gun NRA propaganda sound in this situation?

Guns give people who are bad more power to do stupid things. Like quickly shoot people from far away or before they know what hit them. Sensible gun laws people that's all we are asking for - you can keep your guns we are NOT to take them away from you.

Hope this beautiful baby has a full recovery and a chance at life without anymore gunfire.

redvirginia

Xcelant post about liberals make laws difficut to obeys. Womens been raped all times because no guns, we need to gun women up, that stops raping. But raping will go on with expensive formalities that are cumbersome, like registering to vote. Being criminals the only ones who possess weapons in places where crime is higher with democrats in control.

I have a solution. Eliminate the democratic party elect all republicans and there will no longer be gun violence. Remember when Bush II was president and the Republicans controlled the House and Senate? There were no crimes committed with guns. That be my answer.

Liberals only makes it more difficult for people that obeys the laws cannot be protecting themselves, women have been raped because, she have not been able to purchase a gun for self-defense,

everything after your BS assertion trying to make a correlation between liberals, gun control and rape was just blah blah blah blah. As a gun owner who has been on the receiving end of an assault, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that a gun would not have helped me and that statistics don't support guns doing anything to mitigate the incidence of rape.

the only thing that WILL prevent rape is when neanderthals like you start to understand that rape is a crime of dominance, violence and power and when we start treating rapists like the misogynist vermin they are instead of looking for ways to suggest that the rape victim somehow asked for it.

it is conservative politicians who are trying to change the definition of rape to call into question whether or not a rape is "legitimate" and the fact that you support them pretty much negates anything you have to say on the matter

Womens been raped all times because no guns, we need to gun women up, that stops raping. But raping will go on with expensive formalities that are cumbersome, like registering to vote.

and Dick, you clearly have no clue either. please refrain from commenting on subjects about which you know nothing

@ ZeivanFly ... and once you get all the gangbangers and criminals to agree to "your" idea of sensible gun control we can talk. Until then, not a chance ...

Nikolaus20 Comment collapsed by the community

Gun control in Chicago is working just fine. You just won't be reading stories about the many other people who COULD have been shot but weren't, thanks to it.

Great use of Sarcasm...you were being sarcastic right?

You will not see a significant reduction in gun crimes until the politicians and the courts quit screwing around. You catch em, put a rope around their neck and hang em. Might not solve the problem entirely but the one on the end of the rope won't be shooting children anymore.

ZeivahFly

So answer me this how does a "Good Guy" w/a gun defend himself when someone comes up from behind and shoots at him while holding a baby

This is the stupid reasoning of those who demand more control. Anypeople that is attacked with a weapon in the back is helpless, but those that do not equal are defenseless ,because you don't want we can acquire automatic weapons for personal defense, as is the case of Colorado and Washington DC, where they want to require gun owners to pay for costly insurance policies. While criminals , they never will set themselves submitted under the law because thy buy their guns from the black market , not from gun stores.

Um.. the article said "gang affiliate", it did not say he was involved in drugs or the gang life... but i don't expect you guys living in your gated community or your distant suburbs to know anything about what "affiliate" means..

A gang affiliate is someone who is NOT a member and is NOT involved in the activities.. it is someone who simply may live in the same neighborhood and might befriend a gang member.

Stop branding people based on your ignorant assumptions!

"So answer me this how does a "Good Guy" w/a gun defend himself when someone comes up from behind and shoots at him while holding a baby?" ZeivahFly

Of course, he can't. But that's a really, REALLY stupid reason to justify gun control. Perhaps if the shooter had waited five minutes, and the baby was strapped into a car seat, and the daddy was turned around, he would have seen the shooter soon enough to protect himself. Then would you have used that as a reason to NOT have gun control laws? Silly logic, my friend.

Everybody, please remember that laws are written to PUNISH and they have absolutely NO WAY IN HE11 to STOP anyone from doing anything. That's the flaw with the "gun control nuts'" way of thinking. The ONLY way to prevent "gun violence" is to remove all the guns from society. Good luck with that!

MWP, you also left out, "Criminologists concur that the unusual prevalence of guns in America—some 300 million in private hands—makes our violent crime more lethal than that of other countries."

Selective posting is no different than someone taking things out of context. If you want to post facts...post the facts in its entirety.

Another day another article to argue over. It's simple, we put in place laws.......that's "L A W with an S". What do gang bangers/criminals have in common? They don't abide by the laws, hence the term criminals, cause they break laws. You can put forth as many gun laws as you want such as a ban on ownership. But until you realize that criminals don't abide by any laws, you are wasting your time.

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars!

Bad analogy, but if you want to use it you should consider that DUI checkpoints and stricter DUI enforcement (both of which may inconvenience sober drivers) have HALVED drunk driving incidents in three decades...

http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-driving/drunk-driving-fatalities-national-statistics

Why can't you gun nuts get it through your red-necked head that gun control does NOT mean taking away guns! No one wants or is going to take away your precious guns. We want to make it harder for mentally ill people and people with a criminal past to obtain a gun. Law-abiding citizens should have no problem buying a gun (unless you are looking for a military grade assault weapon, in which case you are SOL).

whiskey eye

Love how you have NO compassion for the murdered child. Nice... and typical of the right.

Someone who supports the second amendment to 'its fullest' extent, tell me again, why everyone should be entitled to have a gun. Another example of a "responsible GUN OWNER" being IRRESPONSIBLE again.

For the father... I know this was a horrible accident, but.. where was your COMMON SENSE? Thoughts for the family.

This is very sad, but in an odd way probably saved her a lifetime of misery. Her father is a POS gang banger and no telling how many siblings she had.

@ Waysouth -

Gun control in Chicago is working just fine....... Could have fooled me.

The anti-gunners there figure that without their strict gun laws, everyone living in Chicago would have been shot down years ago. It's damn near the "Wild West" there now and they claim it would be the "Wild West" there without gun control. Go figure.

Gangs are violent groups but the real cancer is the presence of guns and bullets. The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council report that U.S. firearm homicides are 20 times higher and firearm suicides are 6 times higher than in other developed countries. What regulations do Canada, Japan, Australia, France, Germany, and Spain have that makes them so much safer and provide their young males, specifically, with significantly longer survivals. On average guns killed 88 Americans and injured 202 each day during 2011. When available, it is estimated that firearm homicides and suicides in 2012 will exceed motor vehicle fatalities. With less than 5 percent of the world’s population, we now own 40 percent of all firearms in civilian hands. (N Engl J Med 2013:368:397-399) Are they WELL REGULATED as prescribed by the Second Amendment? Obviously not. The N.R.A. is stalking politicians in Washington and the State of Oregon, bullying and threatening. Are they a gang? Obviously.

The progressive left argue all day about stricter gun laws, registration, identification, etc in an effort to circumvent illegal gun violence - it being a constitutional right and so on. Yet when the same requirements are sought for voter ID, in an effort to circumvent illegal voters, they scream foul, poll tax, etc. - it also being a constitutional right and so on.

Why is that?

@Juliann...actually you need to check your statistics. On the CDC site under deaths suicide is listed as the highest gun-related death. Homicide is actually low-man on the totem pole. 3-4 times more people die from being uninsured than from guns. The media just highlights these particular tragedies because 1. it is sensationalist and 2. They have an agenda. Frankly, I find it ironic...if they are trying to foster the idea of MORE gun control, Chicago is not a great example. This so-called gun-control capital of the US is a hot mess. Gang-banger violence does not happen in Springfield, Mo...one reason is 'conceal to carry'.

the inner city's of all our large metropolitan areas are infiltrated with the numerous gangs, drugs, stolen property, prostitution,protection racket; they are growing in numbers daily; as young Black men, with no real family ties, join as their new family.

An innocent child has died and all you people can do is spew your bull@!$%# to fit your own agendas? Pathetic.

If the thousands of thugs did not kill each other every day, just think how much more it would cost to keep them on the tax payer nickel for all of their everyday living expenses. I hope they keep slaughtering each other so that takes off thousands of those who drain our taxpayer paid benefits.

"Why can't you gun nuts get it through your red-necked head that gun control does NOT mean taking away guns!"

Yeah, tell that to the citizens of Chicago and NY City. Besides when you start an argument by making racial assumptions, you've lost all credibility.

Chicago and Detroit - perfect examples of what politically driven "social justice" and "social engineering"

can do.

the criminals are going to be armed either way, they don't care about your ban.

there was a drive-by in DC yesterday, they have a gun ban in place. it made no difference.

gang members shoot people every day and you stupid people want to blame the gun.

there should be a bounty on all gang members and FREE hand guns for all honest hard working citizens.

Cult of Personality

Why can't you gun nuts get it through your red-necked head that gun control does NOT mean taking away guns! No one wants or is going to take away your precious guns. We want to make it harder for mentally ill people and people with a criminal past to obtain a gun.

So how are you going to define "mentally ill"? Some politicians are saying that vets coming home from tours overseas are predisposed to mental illness and would like to add all of them to the no-go list. To clarify: The people who have gotten the best training in the world for the safe use of firearms now get blacklisted. Why can't gun control people look at those facts and realize that we already have a problem with the current push on gun laws? With all of the HIPPA regs in the country, we are faced with two options. Either we give up our rights to buy and own weapons or we give up our privacy on matters concerning our health. Why is it that law abiding citizens ALWAYS have to give up something in response to criminal actions? And as far as criminals getting their hands on guns, that is already illegal, isn't it? So what is the big deal? My thoughts are this: If you don't have anything in your past that would exclude you from buying a weapon, you should be able to buy ANY weapon you choose that has been legal since the firearms act of 1936. There were major changes at that time in weapon technology and the laws addressed the problem with a common sense approach. No fully automatic weapons in the hands of your typical citizens. But your average law abiding citizen still has a route to purchase them. I have seen no significant change in technology that needs to be addressed with broad and sweeping new legislation since then.

There are many many people out there who think that they can legislate this problem away. They will not be happy until EVERY gun is gone from American soil. That includes the army and police. Then there are the gun rights supporters who say that law abiding citizens should own and carry weapons as they please. Everyone else is in the middle and must make their stand where they feel appropriate. Everyone has a line that would be crossed to the point where they say ENOUGH! The problem is, once you start crossing enough of those lines, it is too late to stop the crossing of the rest. Everyone is saying "We don't want to take your guns!", I and many people like me are smart enough to know there is an unspoken "Yet" at the end of that sentence. The problem with the type of thinking that gun control types use is that there is never "enough". "Banning assault rifles didn't stop idiots from committing massacres? We need more laws then!" Their game plan is to get as much momentum as they can with small victories and then tackle the tough battles. Once that happens, the criminals are the only winners and law abiding citizens are always the losers. Police departments (like Chicago) are making it policy to not respond to 911 calls for assault unless the assailant is still on the premises. What does that tell you? It tells me that the system cannot enforce the laws that it already has and if anyone is going to protect me it is going to be me. I would rather face someone attacking me with a pistol than pee or defecate on myself as my primary means of defense. For the life of me I can't believe that is the solution recommended by some people.

Nikolaus20 Comment collapsed by the community

Gun control in Chicago is working just fine. You just won't be reading stories about the many other people who COULD have been shot but weren't, thanks to it.

Please tell me you were kidding, and you aren't that darn illogical.

Gun control works, ask Hitler, Castro, Qaddafi, Stalin, Idi Amin, Mao Tse-tung, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, Chicago, New York City and Detroit.

@ Bulldozer62. I read your response to "redvirginia" and agree, but I believe that Dick's response was also in response to "redvirginia" and was satire. I hope anyway. I can't believe that there would be two with those language skills on this feed.

It's interesting people think they are trying to take their guns away, are you all that ignorant, no one has said anything about taking your guns away did they. So why is it they you clowns have to say it over and over.

People need to get a grip on reality all these guns come from somewhere right, these criminals don't make them right, a criminal can't purchase a gun legally right, so where do you up standing citizens think these guns come from?, they don't magically appear, they most likely are stolen or worst, people that bought it legally sold them and reported it stolen. See the problem, the problem is being created by the gun owners themselves by not properly securing their guns or worst selling them for illegal monetary gain, hey We can all bitch and moan but guess what that does not change this mess now does it.

Damn, another death due to bullets in a clip. Clearly if guns were limited in the number of rounds they can hold, the baby would still be alive today. So I think we ought to limit all guns to one round only. Whaddya think, people?!?

(and yes, this entire post was sarcastic)

I wish redvirginia wold proof read her post prior to posting her gibberish.......she makes the gunners look very uneducated

If this guy had ties to a stupid gang he knew not to be on the street with his child. What a dumb ass.

nogodnomaster

And yet our governemnt is hardly doing anything with gangs.

Gangs should be punished as if they are domestic terrorists.

Steve-446003

"known gang member"

Why doesn't Chicago pass laws against GANGS?

Gang member? Firing squad at dawn............

Just for being in a gang? No. They, like the rest of us, have a First Amendment right to peaceably assemble. When people commit crimes, gang membership or not, they are no longer assembling peaceably, and they should be punished. But membership in any organization, including a gang, is not a crime, it is an exercise of a First Amendment right, unless and until a crime is committed.

Sam627556

It's interesting people think they are trying to take their guns away, are you all that ignorant, no one has said anything about taking your guns away did they. So why is it they you clowns have to say it over and over.

Sam, you are one big contradiction with that statement. You say that you don't want to take away guns but you say that gun owners are the problem. That gun owners are the ones getting the guns to the criminals. That is pretty asinine in my opinion. How do you propose to stop the fringe criminal element from selling illegal guns? That is as much of a pipe dream as getting all of the guns out of the hands of the criminals. Nice talking point but the reality of the facts is that criminals could care less about laws unless there are some teeth behind them. Sell a gun illegally, go to jail a long time. When have I seen that headline on the net. Hmmmmmmm, that would be never.

Simple facts:

1st: This might not have happened if the NRA let Chicago keep it's gun ban.

2nd: It's easy for the cops to claim someone had gang affiliations and thus "asked for it".

3rd: It's extremely rare for someone to use a gun to defend themselves against an unknown surprise attacker.

4th: The baby couldn't use a gun for self-defense.

1st: That's a fundamentally flawed counter-factual. The gun ban in Chicago is in effect effectively, and was when I lived there 20 years ago. Gangs run that city because of the Prohibition on Drugs, just as they did during the Prohibition on Alcohol. Want to save lives? 51% of murders in the USA, including 51% of gun murders, are directly related to the illegalization of drugs....legalize them and save massive amounts of lives. Meanwhile rifles (of which "assault" rifles are a small subset) that use high capacity magazines are responsible for 1.7% of murders and 3.5% of homicides. Which would save more lives? Guns bans, or drug legalization (1.7% vs 51%)? Do you want to save lives or just limit freedoms? You can expand freedoms and save more lives by far then you can save by limiting rights further.

2nd: There are hundreds of gangs in Chicago. In some neighborhoods there is a 70-90% likelihood anyone over 13 and under 45 years of age is in a gang. It's not the cops claiming this for ease of their job, it's that the guy was likely a gang member and got shot by another gang member. In either case, he didn't deserve it. Being in a gang is not a crime worthy of a death sentence. BUT it does increase your risk factors tremendously for being shot.

3rd: It is estimated that somewhere between a few tens of thousands to 2.5 million cases of guns being used in self defense stop a crime every year in the USA. You saying "extremely rare for someone to use a gun to defend themselves against an unknown surprise attacker" is describing a very rare case; a case which is usually an assassination of one criminal by another. It's like saying "very few people round all the bases for an inside the park homerun"......well yeah, duh. Most homeruns aren't in-the-parkers. Mostly they are balls hit out the park. Most people who use guns in self defense are not attacked by surprise, hence they actually save more lives by far annually then they take via murder (and in some studies, more lives are saved annually than they take total).

4th: What a silly caricature of a straw man no one would have made to begin with. Using informal logical fallacies don't help you sound correct. Try logic and rational thought next time.

Always amusing to see the disconnected lib rants always blaming the NRA, firearms manufacturers and "Whitey". The liberal mind is quite simply allergic to the notion of personal responsibility/accountability. Chicago is a blarring example of the lib/progressive model bearing its rotten fruits. Generations of dependence on goverment redistributions have spawned a perfect storm of violent crime and corruption. The Blamer in Chief must be so proud of his little "community" that he helped organize. The radical, control freaks on the left can ban, limit and restrict firearms all they want--it will not magically transform the criminal element into model citizens. It's way past time to stop blaming everyone and everything else for mess that progressive policies have created in the urban cess pools of America. We need a war on criminals with swift, harsh sentences for violent offenders. Until we get serious about confronting the real issue--sociopathic individuals--nothing is going to change. Stacking the laws against legal gun owners has never created the safe and secure, gun free utopias that the left has been promising for decades. It has in fact created the opposite.

It's interesting people think they are trying to take their guns away, are you all that ignorant, no one has said anything about taking your guns away did they.

This is a nonsense meme on the left. Of course they are talking about taking guns away...if they ban certain models and certain magazine sizes they may not go door to door to seize them, and they may (will) let us keep the ones in circulation, BUT LOGICALLY if we can no longer purchase those things in the future they will inevitably be out of circulation...because guns and magazines rust and break over time.

You know full well they are trying to take these things out of circulation eventually...whether it's me or my posterity effected is irrelevant. Don't be such a sophist, or fool for memes.

Very first thing we have to talk about is gun control right? Not even concerned how or why someone would do this kind of thing. If the perpetrator used a claw hammer, how many of you would have passed this story by without comment?

people.

gun control does not work, gun bans do not work. this was a gang hit. the kid got in the way.

gangs do NOT respect the law. if they are willing to gun down people then I doubt they will turn in their guns just because someone passes another law.

By the way, stop wishing for the childs recovery. if any of you bothered to read the first paragraph you will see that the poor kid died at the scean although her father is still alive.

Best wishes to the family and my condolances for their lost child.

Understand though.

you live in a bad area of a bad city, your part of a gang. it's gonna happen sooner or later to you and maybe to your family if they get in the way. Gangs don't care. Your just a target to them.

Cultofpersonality - In this video, Democrat Representative Jan Schakowsky says all guns, including handguns, are on the agenda for removal by using the universal background info to identify all gunowners. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVz2lHODQvs&feature=player_embedded

Steve - We could pass laws against gangs, but the gangbangers don't seem to care too much about the law.

mctrog,

The original article said that they were both in critical condition. Those comments were based on that. No harm, no foul on your part though...

Gun control in Chicago is working just fine. You just won't be reading stories about the many other people who COULD have been shot but weren't, thanks to it.

Please tell me you were kidding, and you aren't that darn illogical.

And exactly how is that different from arguing that "Oh, we never hear about the millions of houses that weren't robbed?"

how is that gun control working in chicago ?

You are making an excellent argument for why city-level gun control doesn't work very well.

Um.. the article said "gang affiliate", it did not say he was involved in drugs or the gang life... but i don't expect you guys living in your gated community or your distant suburbs to know anything about what "affiliate" means..

Umm, you do know what the word "affiliate" means, right?

If you are a mafia affiliate you are called an "associate". That means you work with/for the mafia. I grew up around gangs (in Chicago, and in other States when I moved)...being affiliated usually means you wear their colors and actively participate in their activities.

Gun control works, ask Hitler, Castro, Qaddafi, Stalin, Idi Amin, Mao Tse-tung, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, Chicago, New York City and Detroit.

You are mistaken. Hitler did not believe in gun control. When he came into power, he relaxed gun laws.

From http://www.natvan.com/national-vanguard/assorted/gunhitler.html :-

The spirit of National Socialism was one of manliness, and individual self-defense and self- reliance were central to the National Socialist view of the way a citizen should behave. The notion of banning firearms ownership was utterly alien to National Socialism. In the German universities, where National Socialism gained its earliest footholds and which later became its strongest bastions, dueling was an accepted practice. Although the liberal-Jewish governments in Germany after the First World War attempted to ban dueling, it persisted illegally until it was again legalized by the National Socialists. Fencing, target shooting, and other martial arts were immensely popular in Germany, and the National Socialists encouraged young Germans to become proficient in these activities, believing that they were important for the development of a man's character.

Gun registration and licensing (for long guns as well as for handguns) were legislated by an anti-National Socialist government in Germany in 1928, five years before the National Socialists gained power. Hitler became Chancellor on January 30, 1933. Five years later his government got around to rewriting the gun law enacted a decade earlier by his predecessors, substantially ameliorating it in the process (for example, long guns were exempted from the requirement for a purchase permit; the legal age for gun ownership was lowered from 20 to 18 years; the period of validity of a permit to carry weapons was extended from one to three years; and provisions restricting the amount of ammunition or the number of firearms an individual could own were dropped). Hitler's government may be criticized for leaving certain restrictions and licensing requirements in the law, but the National Socialists had no intention of preventing law-abiding Germans from keeping or bearing arms. Again, the firearms law enacted by Hitler's government enhanced the rights of Germans to keep and bear arms; no new restrictions were added, and many pre-existing restrictions were relaxed or eliminated.

Hitler wanted the Nazis to be able to take out Jews when the time came, so he wanted his own people to have guns. If you want to look for parallels, you can find them in the unreasoning hatred often expressed today against Muslims, gays and other minorities; they are the Jews of today. Liberals are hated because we want American Muslims, gays, etc. to have the same rights as everyone else.

Certainly, one can find parallels between Nazi Germany and today if one looks close enough, they are just not the ones you are intimating.

...there is more to this story then is being reported. Either the Dad was mistaken as being a gang member or is one. Regardless, criminals do not care about innocent lives.

What the RICO stature is not being used to convict street gang members is a mystery.

...and, yes, the death penalty should be used to execute the baby-killing POS!

Yeah, like a gun is a necessity.

When criminals and gangs roam the streets with impunity, then yes, it is.

Very first thing we have to talk about is gun control right? Not even concerned how or why someone would do this kind of thing. If the perpetrator used a claw hammer, how many of you would have passed this story by without comment?

30 Americans don't die of claw hammers murder every day. You can bet that if they did, we would be clamoring for a solution to the claw hammer problem.

Your question is based on typical lack of interest in the greater good of the society we live in, which is a short-sightedness shared by most gun advocates today.

All responsible folk, including responsible gun owners, see the problem and want to figure out a solution, but people like you don't care. They want maximum freedom, and everyone else can just go to heck.

We get lovely high-minded quotes from the Constitution, but when asked what should be done about the gun epidemic, about kids and innocents getting shot every day we get told about how psychologists should solve difficult research problems first and that we should leave you alone. As if we are persecuting you.

Julieann, I posted how to get to the article, if you want to read it in it's entirety- then go do it. I quoted a left leaning news source, and a left leaning harvard professor. If you don't like their facts, take it up with them. Facts are stubborn things, guns are used MORE often to defend, than they are used to kill or wound.

Some people are making this a liberal vs conservative issue. Some people are making this a federal government issue. The president is not a police officer and some matters are best handled by the local government. As far as liberal vs conservative, babies as far as I know don't really associate with a politcal party and at six months old don't vote. It is a sad state when people use such a tragedy to promote their political agenda. A baby getting shot is not a partisan problem but a problem that should concern all human beings.

Gun control laws indicates that the only people that are allow to have any type of weapons to use against anyone are: Criminals, Gang members, Organized crime, the Government body, terrorist, and Lunatics. Law abiding citizens need to follow the law, as always, and not own a weapon or have restriction on the weapon that they can have. Law abiding citizens need to just wait, so those that can not be stopped by any means can clobber them; as they please. No amount of law can stop anyone from hurting others.

We need an equalizer, weapons for law abiding citizens, and laws against those that are not allowed to have them. People that can not be stop by the law, could at least think twice before they want to clobber a law abiding citizen. Most law officers are very professional, but realistically they can not stop every crime.

Gun control in Chicago is working just fine. You just won't be reading stories about the many other people who COULD have been shot but weren't, thanks to it.

Please tell me you were kidding, and you aren't that darn illogical.

And exactly how is that different from arguing that "Oh, we never hear about the millions of houses that weren't robbed?"

Because his statement is a counter-factual, while yours is an actual fact that is in reality happening. Millions of houses ARE NOT robbed every day FACTUALLY, and you never hear about it. Yet, what he said was not an actual fact, it was a hypothetical (counter-factual) based IF a alternate reality existed...and his assumption was totally adverse to all that we know about gun violence statistics. His statement depended on A) a hypothetical alternative reality ("You just won't be reading stories about the many other people who COULD have been shot but weren't, thanks to it"), and B) a completely illogical extrapolation and prediction given that hypothetical (gun ownership rates are not correlated to violent crime rates or murder rates, either among differing incomes, differing races, differing population densities, county by county in the USA, or transnationally country to country).

If you'd like I'll quote extensive studies that prove the illogical conclusion he got from his counter-factual alternative reality scenario.

Cliffs: One is wholly a counter-factual, and the other is a fact.

Perhaps the U.S.

should pull out of
Chicago?

Body count:

In the last six
months 292 killed

(murdered) in
Chicago;

221 killed in Iraq –
AND Chicago

has one of the
strictest gun laws

in the entire US.

Does THAT tell you
anything?:

President: Barack
Hussein Obama;

Senator: Dick
Durbin;

House Representative:
Jesse Jackson Jr.; Governor: Pat Quinn;

House leader: Mike
Madigan;

Atty. Gen.: Lisa
Madigan (daughter of Mike); Mayor: Rahm Emanuel;

The leadership in
Illinois - all Democrats;

Thank you for the
combat zone in Chicago.

Of course, they're
all blaming each other.

Can't blame
Republicans; there aren't any! _________

Chicago school
system rated

one of the worst in the country...

teachers highest
paid.

State pension fund
$78 Billion in debt,

worst in country.

Cook County (
Chicago ) sales tax 10.25%

highest in country.

(Look 'em up if you
want).

This is the political
culture

that Obama comes
from

in Illinois...
And..... he is gonna
'fix' Washington politics for us ???

very very sad. gangs of all affiliations are behind most the violent crimes committed. maybe we should pull our national guard and reserves from far off lands and put them on our own streets and borders to help police our nearly pathetic country. While most of us go off to work for our families welfare there are many who claim to have had no chance to better themselves and thus become gang members, drug dealers, pimps, prsotitutes, or whores for society handouts. there is a lot wrong with this country. this is another example of where we are headed. very very sad all the way around. when the people rely on the government and effectively kill the middle class - you are left with the very rich and the poor to very poor. it will not be long and we will look like most cities in Africa, Mexico or the middle east. we have been electing the wrong people for a while now. the cost is high. welcome to the new America.

Why do we give a free pass to organized criminal gangs in the United States? Is it that we feel sorry for these punks or do we really think that we can pacifiy Chicago with "re-education" methods to some of the more violent gangs out there? Several say make drugs legal as we did during the Prohibition era but we also had law enforcement that took the fight to the gangsters and took them out. This idea of sitting back and being reactive instead of pro-active doesnt seem to be working. Either you go weapons free and willing to use force to take such individuals out than sit around and hope he gets caught at a later date. Teenager picks up a weapons and shoots a person then they become a criminal and if the police fired back and killed him then that is the teenagers stupidity. The days of holding hands and walking down the street demanding "justice" are over. Take the fight to the gangs and maybe they might think twice about shooting into crowded streets with no regard for human life. Go weapons free and maybe someone might actually fear the idea of retibution.

30 Americans don't die of claw hammers murder every day.

They (blunt objects like hammers, clubs, pipes, and bats) kill more Americans every year than rifles (which "assault" rifles that use high capacity magazines are a small subset). Swimming pools are more likely to kill American children than guns. If we only look at murders, guns are almost 3 times less likely to kill an American than the flu. If we count every accidental death by gun, every suicide by gun, every death by cop by gun, and every legal self defense with a gun that ends in a death, we as Americans are almost exactly as likely to die of the flu as we are guns.

But most people don't understand probabilities and risk vs reward analysis, or for that matter cost-benefit analysis. Hence, people can pass a quiz question "which is more safe? A plane trip or a car trip?" (the car is less safe by far), and yet they will still fear the flight enough to drive. They KNOW the flight is less likely to kill them RATIONALLY, but the IRRATIONAL fear of HOW they are going die prevents them from acting rationally....so they drive and take the probabilistically higher risk to their life, irrationally.

The same is true of guns...people are far more afraid of dying by gun shot than the flu, but the risk to your life as an American is almost exactly the same. They fear their child being shot to death, but they are far less afraid of their swimming pools which are more likely to kill their kids. There is no national movement, for example, to limit the depths of pools, the shapes of them, and to impose a background check and ownership list of all those who own pools.

What is deductively logical is often counter-intuitive. What is rational is often unpopular, and almost always related to actual risks (as opposed to intuitive fears).

"Brooks said the baby's mother, Judy Young, is distraught and in a lot of pain. "We're going to find who did this and make sure they are brought to justice," he said. "We're not going to be afraid. We're going to take back our neighborhood." "

Take back your neighborhood, starting with the scumbag mother who associates and allowed the child to be with with the father, and "who has an extensive criminal history, was the intended target."

Hate me all you want, but that baby's death was a mercy killing. It was spared a horrible life in a horrible family.

I AM SORRY A CHILD DIED. I am not heartless. But what chance did the baby have?

Despicable parents. Disgusting. Dad should have died also. I'm sure he's in the hospital with the best medical care being paid for by his health insurance company.

Yeah, that.

It's interesting people think they are trying to take their guns away, are you all that ignorant, no one has said anything about taking your guns away did they. So why is it they you clowns have to say it over and over.

People need to get a grip on reality all these guns come from somewhere right, these criminals don't make them right, a criminal can't purchase a gun legally right, so where do you up standing citizens think these guns come from?, they don't magically appear, they most likely are stolen or worst, people that bought it legally sold them and reported it stolen. See the problem, the problem is being created by the gun owners themselves by not properly securing their guns or worst selling them for illegal monetary gain, hey We can all bitch and moan but guess what that does not change this mess now does it.

i bet they could get a good deal on those guns obama sent to mexican drug cartels, free vial of crack with every purchase...

Nothing to do with guns.... guns have been with us for years.... it all started with RAP MUSIC.... the entire East vs West wars..... rappers "keeping it real".... killer lyrics........

Yep, it's all because of rap music........ BAN RAP & crime will go away..... the birds will sing & everything will be good in the world........

All you idiots that want gun control how is that working for you... Criminals gets guns no matter what and will continue to get guns and you people think that legislation will help I will tell you that there will be more guns and more shootings from legislation of gun control and there will be non serialized guns out there and you will not be able to track and find out who shot who and you will just be the victims of crime all the time and more. You people are so stupid and i guarantee that there will be a large black market of guns becoming the standard and the police and government will not be able to stop it. It will be worse than drugs because it will be a black market for the criminals and law abiding citizens who want guns and cannot get them any other way. Black market will be huge knowing they can make big bucks on gun sales without the government.

Hate me all you want, but that baby's death was a mercy killing. It was spared a horrible life in a horrible family.

I am living proof that not every child that grows up in a gang infested neighborhood to bad parents somehow have no chance of escape. I made it out...so I think you presume too much. True, chances were not on the baby's side, but as a female her chances were better than mine were. She deserved a chance. We are not simply automations of our parent's design. We aren't simply products of our environment...although it matters in the probabilities and social adjustments once must overcome.

I committed my fair share of crimes in my youth. But, without any system or incarceration, I grew out of it and changed my own behavior. I never even got arrested...I was a fairly intelligent criminal (and a little bit lucky). In the end, the intelligence won out against the criminal.

That little girl might not have grown up to be an angel, be she could have reformed herself like I and many other did/do.

We are individuals...our raising is not a lifelong excuse for our failings. The sooner we take responsibility for ourselves the sooner we can take the initiative to change.

it all started with RAP MUSIC

No it didn't...it is caused by drugs being illegal, which then is a black market run by gangs who are funded by that drug money. The allure of the money draws in the youth. It's no different than the murder fest that happened because of alcohol being illegal.

Over the last 20 years the following things have proliferated to historic heights:

violent tv, music, and movies, single parenthood, guns, "assault" rifles in particular, permits to carry guns, high capacity magazines, etc.

Over that same 20 years the violent crime rate in the USA has fallen 49%, and so has the murder rate. Gun violence, gun crime, and gun murder have all fallen at similar rates over that time.

That means, logically, there is no correlation between any of those things and violent crime rates and murder rates (and suicide rates are also non-corollary). IF THERE IS NO CORRELATION THERE CAN BE NO CAUSATION.

In the early part of the 20th century people blamed jazz for murder too. It was just as dumb then as it is now. Millions of people listened to jazz, and only a few killed. Billions of people listen to rap, and only a few kill. It's simply not the cause just because you don't like it or don't understand it isn't literal. Gangster rap has been dead for over 10 years, most rap hits are dance songs, and even at the height of gangster rape the violent crime rates and murder rates had no relation to the art form.

Art imitates life, not the other way around.

EDIT:...and even at the height of gangster rap* the violent crime rates and murder rates had no relation to the art form.

Both the shooter, the father and whomever was in the van are all worthless pieces of crap. These kinds of people have been killing themselves for years and all to get deep pockets in exchange for a shortened life span. They really need to wake up...chances are the shooter is the next to go. This time and many other times there's innocent bystanders that take the hit and in this case a 6 month old little girl. These people have no regard for human life and hopefully will get what they deserve...death or life behind bars.

As far as gun control...it doesn't exist. Anyone can have any type of gun they want, criminals, you, me, whose to stop us. Problem is if you get caught with it you'll pay with jail time, there is nothing to stop anyone from getting what they want just most law abiding citizens follow the rules but why would you in this day and age...it's getting harder and harder.

ZeivahFly

So answer me this how does a "Good Guy" w/a gun defend himself when someone comes up from behind and shoots at him while holding a baby?.. Personally my first instinct would be to make sure I save the child I was taking care of and NOT drop her in favor of reaching for my "Good Guy Gun". So how silly does the Good Guy with a gun NRA propaganda sound in this situation?

Guns give people who are bad more power to do stupid things. Like quickly shoot people from far away or before they know what hit them. Sensible gun laws people that's all we are asking for - you can keep your guns we are NOT to take them away from you.

I guess common sense isn't one of your strong points. Explain to me how an unarmed Good Guy has a better chance at surviving a gun fight than a Good Guy with a firearm. You see, my short-sighted and illogically thinking friend, you have greater than almost ZERO chance of defending yourself against an armed assailant if you have your own weapon.

You may be OK running around without any means to protect yourself and keep your fingers crossed that you never become a victim, but don't push your own willingness to leave everything to chance on the rest of us. I will never understand why you gun grabbing nut-jobs cannot comprehend that gun control only applies to those who obey the law in the first place.

I am damn tired of hearing about babies being taken out by collateral damage!!! ALL people need to stay away from the "gangs", "gangster mentality" of those you meet in the world. Seriously, ALWAYS take a MENTAL note of those you meet. If they act gangsta, they usually are....a few just want to act....they should take acting lessons & maybe, just maybe make something of themselves. What I did read, and I PRAY IS TRUE, they want a change. The only way for change is to realize there IS a problem, address it, & make the difference. This old school of thought about not ratting out your "brothers" is too lame to even rationalize. Even the freaking Mafia figured it out, rat, rat, rat. In their case it was to save their own skin..... however, in the cases of today it's purely for survival. Keep letting the swag talking, dope peddaling, suave nasties rule your neighorhood, you will get no more than you have gotten in the past, more heartache, breakdown of families & neighborhoods. STOP blaming everyone else....the police, politics, religion, global warming....etc. When you face the evil that Satan has wrought & those around you who relish in it for the $$$$, you will realize it is in your own backyard. IF it's not happening already, then there's no need to fix / blame it. Remember... Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil, See No Evil has it's consequences. When a whole community refuses to speak out, ignore, & turn their heads, the whole community suffers....for ages & ages. My heart breaks for this little girl, and so many others before her that have had NO chance because of indifferences & bad choices made. And God help us, she will NOT be the last if these communities do NOT WAKE UP! Criticize the police, blame, blame. But understand, it's the neighborhood that makes it's own mind up to not speak up when they see & hear the evil, but choose to turn that blind eye. If you want a better neighborhood, then stand up & make it so. ONLY in America do you have the chance to do this, on your own. Make that difference! Again, my heartfelt condolences to the entire family, neighbors & community. Where everyone else was blinded....now the Lord will take care of her!

No it didn't...it is caused by drugs being illegal, which then is a black market run by gangs who are funded by that drug money. The allure of the money draws in the youth. It's no different than the murder fest that happened because of alcohol being illegal.

excellent posts "ProIndividual." This part was the best:

violent tv, music, and movies, single parenthood, guns, "assault" rifles in particular, permits to carry guns, high capacity magazines, etc.

Over that same 20 years the violent crime rate in the USA has fallen 49%, and so has the murder rate. Gun violence, gun crime, and gun murder have all fallen at similar rates over that time.

That means, logically, there is no correlation between any of those things and violent crime rates and murder rates (and suicide rates are also non-corollary). IF THERE IS NO CORRELATION THERE CAN BE NO CAUSATION.

Someone who understands logic, it's refreshing.

All the talk about "rap music," and "violent movies and games," is nonsense to distract from the real issues. These things (as you point out) are not even correlated with gun violence, hence it's logically impossible for them to be causative. Good stuff.

@ Piglizard,

The city simply mandates proper training, licensing, and fees to own a gun in the city, The state Of Illinois does not allow concealed weapons in the state and does not recognize concealed permits from other states. Again, you imply that guns are outlawed in Chicago, when in fact they are NOT.

The Constitution is clear, "..., shall not be infringed." Like it or not, mandating training, licensing, and fees for ownership are all infringements.

By definition,

Infringe: Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on.

Encroach: Intrude on (a person's territory or a thing considered to be a right).

Intrude: Put oneself deliberately into a place or situation where one is unwelcome or uninvited.

Unwelcome: Not gladly recieved.

As an individual, I am a member of the smallest minority, I see these as unwelcome infringements upon my Second Amendment Right to Bare Arms.

"Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual)." Ayn Rand

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." Ayn Rand

DrowningGrover

Thanks...I appreciate that. And it's nice to see someone else that understands the logical causes of these problems.

ProIndividual-3906907

You sir are too logical, come on now, this is the vine. Logic need not apply here. All things starts at the root, not at the end.

If I were people in Chicago I would get a gun to defend myself no matter what the state law says. It is your consititutional right to own a gun and the state cannot infringe on your constitutional rights.

Jonylah

WTF kinda name is that? How do you even pronounce it?

Steve,

Yep, it's all because of rap music........ BAN RAP & crime will go away..... the birds will sing & everything will be good in the world........

I'll be happy.

@jack 1792739.....EXACTLY!!! Obama and the rest of his moron supporters think you can control the outcome of life by applying more laws and control on the citizens! This isn't a monarch or communist country! Increase the penalties for breaking the existing laws and shush the bleeding heart liberals.

Why don't they make it illegal to be in a gang, affiliated with a gang, or even be caught with a gang! Now that is a law that needs to be on the books! Instead they attack and try to ban a pieces of metal, that by itself, cant hurt anyone or anything! It is a self protection instrument that is needed by the law abiding citizens to protect us from the criminals that liberals continually let out, time and time again, from jail. They commit more crimes, go back to jail, get out, commit more crimes, etc, etc, etc!!! It takes that criminal or gang-banger to steal or illegal obtain a weapon from another convict. I don't see why it is so gd hard for these liberal idiots to understand this! You attack the problem. Spend more time and money going after the crooks not law abiding citizen's constitutional rights!!!!

@Bella Angel

Affiliate or member, he done did sumptim to piss off the homies. Now his child is dead. He should have been more cautious about with whom he was affiliated.

Hey, it's Chicago.

The solution is so obvious that only a blind idiot ignores it.

Own an illegal gun - Mandatory 10 year prison sentence.

Use a gun in a crime - Mandatory 20 year prison sentence.

But criminals ignore laws. So why would they, all of a sudden, decide not to do either of these things because they are against the law?

But hey, insecure small d*ck gun nutz-

Doe that make the rest of the people anti-NRA people "insecure big pu55y gunphobes"?

Bulldozer62,

I understand you are liberal, and therefor ignorant, but crime has dropped nationally, and has declined more in areas with less gun control than Chicago.

Also, Colorado legislators are trying to block a law that would allow women to carry guns on campus to protect against rape. You might not like it since guns are bad and scary, but many rape victims have asked for the law to be passed so they could better protect themselves, but the liberal leaders dont want it. A female congresswoman said that the man would probably just disarm her, so she shouldnt say she could protect herself. How is this not as bad as Akin's legit rape bs. Misogyny is alive and well with the liberals. They just defend it with lies and dont report it.

@Bella Angel

Um.. the article said "gang affiliate", it did not say he was involved in drugs or the gang life... but i don't expect you guys living in your gated community or your distant suburbs to know anything about what "affiliate" means..

First of all, I enjoy my gated community; it effectively keeps uneducated people like you out, unless I need my house cleaned. Please read the definition of affiliate before you bash on someone who actually went to college.

af·fil·i·ate To adopt or accept as a member, subordinate associate, or branch

Last time I checked I wasn't insecure nor lacking in the "johnson" department so instead of bringing actual merit to the discussion we are down to name calling. I could care less if you don't own a weapon, don't want to own a weapon, and hate the fact that other Americans own weapons in their house. I own a weapon but I am not a "gun nut". But hey this is newsvine, when all else fails bring out the political rhetoric. I'll keep my weapon you can do whatever you want whenever someone wants to attempt an act of violence against you. According to some within the political spectrum you can blow a whistle, throw up on them, or even urinate to cause your would be attacker in not harming you. Maybe I will have enough time to put my finger down my throat before the punk shoots me for the 20 dollars I have in my wallet.

Gangs in the inner city are the American equivalent of the Taliban and should be treated as a clear and present danger.. Organized crime and terrorists in their envelope of influence.. Mexican drug gangs are also a clear and present danger to our Constitutional rights as well so both should be dealt the full power of our law enforcement and military forces.. Our large population centers are no different then the cities in Jihad land and are about as dangerous..

Again, straight to gun control, because it's the epidemic, they are the "cause". Guns are new to society? Guns are more available to society, now? A claw hammer doesn't give you a big enough body count? If body count is the requirement, what is our alcohol related mortality rate? Mortality aside, how many alcohol related domestic and sexual assaults have there been this year?

You won't even address the cause of the violence itself. You'll pay lip service to mental health services but you don't appear to be, even remotely, concerned with how or why something like this happens. Only that a gun was used and we certainly have to make sure that we address the gun.

Don't try to turn this on me, either. I didn't come running in here "clamouring" about my rights to own a firearm. You tell me that I only care about my own rights and everyone else can go to "heck"? (I like that by the way, "Heck" is that where you go if you don't believe in "Gosh?) Yet, you are the one telling what I need or don't need based upon your feeling and opinions. It's pretty easy to tell somebody else what rights the should have, isn't it?

Once again, are you more interested in the method or the cause? My runner up question is, are "you" going to do something positive in your community to help or are "you" going to demand that some politician does something about this?

Just a simple observation and a bit of common damned sense that seems to be lacking. The problem isn't gun control. The problem is pansy assed, hug the criminal types. If you want to curtail violent crime, you need to have punishment that acts as a deterrent, and the balls to impose it.

IF we had a law that said ANY TIME a firearm was used to committ a violent crime, or ANY WEAPON to committ a violent crime to include rape, robbery, burglary, the mandated sentence was Capital Punishment, I am certainly willing to bet that would raise a few eyebrows. It might even curtail violent crime if we DID AWAY with the 14 year average bull@!$%# of appeals before that sentence was carried out. It would be an even bigger deterrent if you didnt have tree hugging jackasses protesting the executions. Even more of the deterrent would come by changing the current touchy feely gurney go to sleep bull@!$%# and beheaded as the method of execution.

I guarantee you this, it wont stop all of it, but it sure as hell will cause more than a few to think twice. Personally, having studied criminology, I can tell you that a vast majority, some 95% of violent crimes are committed by people who have a history of committing violent crime. They are either out on parole, appeal, probation, or have graduated from thier degree program at Crime U (the penal system). Our country has the greatest number of reoffenders anywhere on this planet. You know why. Because we are wusses when it comes to punishing the criminal. Execution solves 2 problems. 1st it guarantees justice to the victim, and 2nd it breaks the cycle of reoffenders. It has the added distinct advantage of deterrence.

If you want to control guns as a bandaid to control violent crime, stop playing with bandaids and cut the frickin cancer out of the body. It will heal much better when you don't leave the tumors to grow and fester.

The NRA issued a statement that all babies under the age of 3 should be allowed to carry pistols. "It's the best way for the little tykes to defend themselves!" commented NRA President, Wayne LaPierre.

MrBurns

Bulldozer62,

I understand you are liberal, and therefor ignorant, but crime has dropped nationally, and has declined more in areas with less gun control than Chicago.

Also, Colorado legislators are trying to block a law that would allow women to carry guns on campus to protect against rape. You might not like it since guns are bad and scary, but many rape victims have asked for the law to be passed so they could better protect themselves, but the liberal leaders dont want it. A female congresswoman said that the man would probably just disarm her, so she shouldnt say she could protect herself. How is this not as bad as Akin's legit rape bs. Misogyny is alive and well with the liberals. They just defend it with lies and dont report it.

LMAO!!! just how bad is your reading comprehension? clearly you missed the sentence in my comment where I stated that I am a gun owner. the fact that you had to preface your argument (or lack thereof) with a personal insult pretty much destroys your credibility right out of the gate, yet sadly, you plow on

if so many rape victims have advocated for that law to be passed, I'm sure you'll have no trouble citing a few sources to back up your claim. In the meantime, please explain how a woman who is slipped a date-rape drug is going to defend herself with a gun? Or a woman who is grabbed from behind? or the 78-year-old grandma? or the 8 year-old girl?

you're going to try and tell me that a woman who is taken by surprise is going to be able to reach into her handbag, or her bra, grab her gun and accurately shoot an assailant?-- something even trained law-enforcement personnel have been known to fail to do? there are enough dead cops out there to prove who the ignorant one really is, and it ain't me. I just don't live under the erroneous belief that more guns are the only solution.

what's really appalling is that, rather than advocating that men be held accountable for their behavior, and that society be educated as to what rape is, you simply want to mindlessly throw a bunch of guns out there and believe that it will solve the problem. that pretty much absolves you from having to control yourself now, doesn't it?

men were raping women LONG before guns were even part of the equation, so clearly there is a mindset which needs to be changed and rape needs to be treated like the heinous, violent crime it is. the fact that you don't see that makes you part of the problem

the thinker-318752

Racist much??? Maybe you should THINK about growing up?

Wow. A baby is murdered while her dad is changing her diaper...and your primary concern is "gubmint want ma guns" and "Wouldna happened if he had a gun". I hope you sick vermin are not Christians, because the idea of you going to church with a straight face is nauseating.

God bless this poor child's soul and comfort her grieving family.

Human,These posters that are making this about guns disgust me beyond belief.They are heartless and therefore have no integrity.An innocent beautiful baby was murdered in cold blood and it is absolutely positively not acceptable to me or other decent members of society.I am hoping the thugs are caught and executed on the spot.As for the posters who have no hearts I'm going to click on ignore in hopes that they will just go back to playing their video games.

Just a cleaning lady:

It is abosolute proof of the evil, pathetic state of the racist mind in America. Most of these comments express NO sadness, NO horror at the loss of an innocent baby. WHY? Because of the child's race and social status. She's not a human to many on this boarda. There are some evil people who even suggest tht she had NO RIGHT to her life. At least one has even are just shy of suggesting some kind of "Final Solution" with many approving. They spey their hate, all while ironically decrying "gun control" as IF they actually care about the loss of life, when in fact they do not and are secretly GLAD about what happened! They betray American values, Christian values, every decent value that the white man ascribes to only those who look like them. The joke is on them because the next time they turn on the news, there will be a very good chance that the next crazy gunman killing children will be a good ole boy that looks JUST LIKE THEM!!!

Maybe what is needed is "GANG" control, not gun control.

In effect this father killed his own daughter.

damn a lot of Innocent people are being shot in Chicago probably the highest rating

it's time for the military to take over and start kicking down some doors looking for unregistered weapons

the night maniac-

In order for the military to take over:
The governor of the state will have to declare that he cannot control the city and ask for federal help (NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN).
POTUS will have to declare Chicago an insurrection (NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN).
POTUS's buddy, Rahm Emanual would have to step down from his position as mayor (NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN).
This part is fuzzy: POTUS/Congress has to suspend Posse Comitatus so that the military can be used in a law enforcement capacity (UNCHARTED TERRITORY SINCE THE CIVIL WAR).

It's been a long time since this country had an insurrection occur. This would be a good litmus test to see how the government reacts and controls the situation...A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WILL BE WATCHING IF THAT OCCURRED.

Butterfly...like the name reflects...is a flighty idiot out of touch with the reality on the streets of our inner cities.

Wayne LaPierre isn't the one out selling drugs, living the "thug life". That baby had an adult who was supposed to be responsible for her safety....right there with her.

As for this tripe....

Criminals also don't abide by laws against rape and murder, so I guess we should get rid of those laws too.

The more correct analogy would be you wanting more rape and murder laws on the books...THAT"LL STOP "EM!!

The problem with Francle's post is a lot of people don't like guns AND abortion. So Francle should come up with a better argument than that one.

Franckle -

How many right wing conservatives can argue a position without resorting to juvenile name calling? None.

Butterfly Mage

The epitome of some guilty complex. He/She is like a mega-rich person, clearing their conscience by donating to charity.

I am a probation agent. I assure you this occupation doesn't make me rich.

Pig, You think Butterfly's comment was a position? It appeared to be an inflamatory comment made to get responses, as it appears was yours. I guess they both worked in that respect. But they both were useless to the issue being discussed.

I do seriously get tired of "more guns" as a solution for gun violence. Nobody recommends more dope for addiction or more credit cards for debt or more cheeseburgers for obesity or more candy for diabetes.

How many children are murdered each day by abortion? You self-righteous prick.

Zero. Speaking of self-righteous, your sense of irony must be broken.

Butterfly, aside from "more guns'", which in the hands of specially trained neighborhood patrols I could see as appropriate given Chicago's circumstances, what series of measures would you want to see? Real measures that could work in the course of a year?

How about life sentences for people who commit crimes with guns?

Chicago is a toilet, run by crooks.

Butterfly Mage

Well, I guess you've totally missed my analogy, even though it was a little facetious. So um you say you're a probation agent, not sure what that is, but if it has anything to do with the legal system, shouldn't you had known that the most heinous crimes committed with a gun already carries a life sentence. But if you are going to equate arm robbery where no one is hurt to let's say a serial killer that uses a knife after raping their victim, you've got a long ways to go in law school.

butterfly.

there are already laws in place tht cover this. they don't work because they are not enforced. Makeing new ones is a waste of time and money as they too will not be enforced.

You have to take control of a situation before laws mean anything. That area is out of control due to the very people that will not obey laws.

Maybe its time for Homeland security to finally start earning their keep.

Gangs may not be terrorist from outside the country but they sure are terrorizing people.

of coarse that means admitting to the world that our government (both sides) are complete failures and we aren't any better than any other country.

that said, it won't happen, gangs will continue to rule and life/Death will go on as normal.

Normaly at this point is where I welcome you to the obamanation but as bad as I dislike that person, he didn't start this. he is makeing things worse but it started years ago by both sides not giving a d*mn about this country and only trying to further either sides agendas.

Butterfly,

How about the death penalty, they can have their speedy trial, last meal, and a bullet for breakfast.

How about life sentences for people who commit crimes with guns?

Butterfly... You as a Probation agent should see the real problem with your own statement.

If Life sentences were doled out for anybody who commits a crime with a gun, our Prisons would be more overcrowded than they are now, and the tax payers would be giving 90% of their paycheck to pay for these criminals existence.

They say that keeping a man incarcerated for 1 year runs around $22,000.00... Now multiply that by the life expectancy in the US (78 years old).. and consider that the criminal is at least 18. That means the average criminal ,who commits a crime with a gun, and receives a life sentence (your solution), If he lives that long, (considering life expectancy in prison is quite a bit shorter) could be incarcerated for up to 60 years, or longer (if he received a life sentence at age 18), for a grand total of $1,320,000.00. That’s a Million plus dollars to keep 1 inmate in prison for life. Personally, I don’t want to PAY my hard earned tax dollars for some dirt bag to live for the rest of his/her life.

Although it has been determined that the death penalty is not an effective deterrent, perhaps we should be looking into that as a solution for violent offenders? You know the old "eye for an eye" solution. It may not "deter" anyone going in, but it would sure save the tax payer a lot of money, eliminate most all repeat offenders, reduce overcrowding in our prisons, and probably decrease the operating expenses of our criminal justice system.

I offer my condolences to the Mother of this child. I will not speculate on what type of person she was, as that would make no difference, she has still lost her precious child due to the actions of a violent criminal. Whom, like the animal he is, should be hunted down, captured, tried, and IF convicted, he should be marched out of the court room, and then shot. End of story, no appeals, no lengthy prison stay, just justice, swift, effective, justice.

WOW....just......wow....

Butterfly is a foreign interloper with an agenda to disarm America. Fly away interloper! By the way, they're called "Probation Officers" you lying maroon!

I do seriously get tired of "more guns" as a solution for gun violence.

More guns, what does that mean exactly? First of all, if you were an American citizen you'd understand that the issue isn't about "more guns," nor would you ever believe for an instance that any fellow American would perceive "more guns" as some imbecilic solution for gun violence.

Isn't it prayer time where you live?

Nikolaus20 is another foreign interloper with an agenda to disarm America that's more than likely sitting right next to Butterfly!

Happy trolling!

That is the way it should be, GDI. Why should criminals be allowed to live after something as horrific as this?? Life in prison should be a short one...

Maryland has probation agents, not officers. The difference is that agents don't carry guns.

Thanks for the useless comment.

People as dumb as you, Wilmer-furman, deserve to live in a crime-infested, gangland like Chicago.

No Wllmer - it's were are your balls you chicken poop pussy?

EX, you have never heard anyone say "arm everyone." You have heard them say that you shouldn't infringe on the right to if you want to.

If there's any stupidity to be pointed out you would be a prime example.

I have never heard a gun owner say that. The only time I hear that is when a grabber trys to mock gun owners. Nobody really says that.

Paul -

Wrong. I've heard about two towns within the last month that tried to make it law that citizens in the town had to own a gun.

Unless they were a criminal, had a religious objection to it, didn't think they could handle it, or just didn't want to. A prime example of more laws--or ordinances--that would not be enforceable or plain would not be enforced.

i'm sorry but when folks like you make stupid remarks like that, you are banished to the kiddie table discussions where I am sure everyone else there will be amazed at your insight on Honey Boo Boo and Dr Phil.

Your response is typical of the liberal, anti-gun crowd. How well did your precious gun control work in keeping a weapon from a sick thug? It don't, does it? Where is your typical liberal indignation about gun violence in Chicago? Ooops, I forgot. We can't point out problems in Democrat controlled cities, even in a violent place like Chicago. Maybe Rahm E. should start banning big gulps, second hand smoke, trans-fats and sharp objects because it is obvious that he is doing nothing about the murder epidemic there. Who ever committed this crime is a sick bastard but unfortunately, he is a sick bastard with an illegal gun.

Oh man Wilmer..that joke is so old...even your GRANDMOTHER stopped using it. But I see your girlfriend Butterfly Mage share the same IQ. Come up with some new, original material....you only sound stupid when you make useless comments like that. Makes people wonder how you even figured out how to log on to a computer and post such nonsense.