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The fatal shooting of a 16-year-old boy by undercover police sparked a protest in New York City on Monday night.
Kimani Gray was killed in the East Flatbush area of Brooklyn on Saturday, NBCNewYork.com reported.
On Monday, a protest and candlelight vigil for Gray turned “disorderly,” according to police. A store was “ransacked” and one person was arrested.
Police say Gray was approached by two officers on Saturday because he was acting suspiciously, NBCNewYork.com reported. According to police, the officers identified themselves and only fired at Gray after he raised a .38 revolver.
However, one witness at the scene told NBCNewYork.com that he heard no warning being given.
Gray had previously been arrested four times for charges including grand larceny, according to NBCNewYork.com.
NYPD Sgt. John Buthorn said early Tuesday that there had been a “scheduled protest” at about 8:30 p.m. ET.
“They were going from one location to another and it got disorderly,” he said. “One commercial establishment was vandalized … ransacked … several items were stolen and thrown."
Buthorn said one person was arrested because disorderly conduct. “He was refusing to leave a location,” after he was asked to do so, the officer said.
A Facebook page called Justice For Kimani Gray has been set up and it had 276 followers at 5:40 a.m. ET on Tuesday.
It showed several photographs of the vigil. One picture showed a crowd of people on the street watched by at least two uniformed officers.
Leave a Comment:
Of course his buddy's going to say that.
Even if they weren't undercover officers, if anyone points and waives a .38 at me, he'd be in the same position he's in now.
One gang-banger down, 20 million to go...
Let's wait and see what the investigation turns up before we jump to conclusions.
There's no indication from this article whether the witness was a friend or even knew the victim.
If the officers didn't identify themselves as undercover officers, there's no way the kid would have known they were cops. On the face of it, these are two grown men approaching a 16 year old kid at night.
There's no indication from the article that he was in a gang.
Let's wait until the investigation's concluded.
Raise a 38,You wave your Rights!
Both are good points. The suspect was a criminal with a gun and the officers were men in black. Hard one to call sometimes, if they didn't identify themselves. However, the law is in favor of law enforcement concerning armed suspects, as it should be. Though having police going around without being able to identifying them is a practice akin to straddling the fence. Never here about undercover white collar busts.
Other reports state that the teen was a Blood.
YAAA !!! Lets protest!!! How dare those bad cops defend themselves!!!!
@Amanda, you must not have read the article, it says that the undercover cops did identify themselves.
And that gives the thug a reason to raise and point a gun? A 16 YO? Pleasssseeeee!!!
Theirishman, did you read it yourself,
Amanda was referring to the fact that a witness affirmed the officers did not identify themselves.
Yep! Here we go again. If another black man shot him it would be a non event. Funny how that works!
@ Amanda - If he had a handgun then all bets are off. First he was committing a crime just by having it in his possession since he was only 16 years old. He also had a substantial record already in his young life. (The cops apparently didn't know but still....)
I don't believe the police are in the wrong at all here except maybe saying they identified themselves if they didn't. I think the shooting is justified.
Amanda,
So that gives him the right to waive a gun at these guys? Because he didn't know they were undercover cops?!
What conclusion do you think they'll come to that "would" justify this kid pulling a gun on two grown men?
Your comment sounds as if you're insinuating that the kid did nothing wrong and the cops were out of line...
Look, even the neighborhood couldn't even have a candle light vigil without getting out of hand and disorderly.
I would like to know where the .38 came from in the first place. What is a teen doing with a gun? As far as the cops, I would want to know if the youth was the target of thier undercover operation or did they just see him as a possible suspect for some other activity that was unrelated. Why risk blowing the undercover op if he wasn't part of the investigation, they could have called for other officers to check the kid out if he wasn't the main target of the undercover operation. This may have had a different outcome if they would have.
Sorry Amanda, that argument simply doesn't wash. Think about it, what in the sam hell was a 16 Y/O/ doing walking the streets ILLEGALLY in possession of a firearm in the first place.
(GM CD)
Good job, officers... and it did not take them 48 bullets to take that criminal down - that is pretty decent shooting skills.
Its simple even a thug should understand. You raise a weapon to an officer or anyone, you will be shot in self defense... I may not like that this is happeneing but come on its basic self defense and it is not a legal battle of big governement against the little guy.
Sure, do an investigation to see if the cops stories check out. If it is determined that the in fact did raise a .38 at the officers, it shouldn't really matter if they identified themselves or not. If you raise a gun at somebody and they turn out to be armed too, then it is your tough luck if you get shot and killed. I will hold judgement on this case as I do with all cases, but from the information we have from this article, my gut feeling is the cops had all the right in the world to shoot the kid.
If you raise a firearm at anyone that is assault with a deadly weapon, cop or no cop. If you raise a firearm at anyone your intention is to do great bodily harm or kill that person, they have the right to defend themselves even if that defense is lethal force. Just so happens he pointed a firearm at a police officer who, arguably, has more time behind the trigger and was prepared to take action in such a situation.
The discussion around the killings of black children by police officers, or non people of color in this country is fascinating to me. Trayvon deserved to die for daring to defend himself from a gun weilding citizen, this child deserved to die because he....i can't even figure out what the arguments being presented here are really. Based on this article, which you (almost) all seem ready to take for the gospel, we know nothing about what actually occured at the scene except that this child is dead and two grown men killed him. EXCEPT we do know plenty about the circumstances that have served to criminalize him. Stop and Frisk ensures that almost every young black male of color is repeatedly arrested in NYC. SO WHAT if he has a record....they all have records because they were born black and reside in NYC....that means absolutely nothing to me, and it shouldn't serve to prejudice you against him either. He was acting suspiciously among a group of friends because he was adjusting his pants???? WTF does that even mean, and why would anyone be subjected to approach by police because of it???? 2. He had a gun (possibly). SO WHAT....most of you all argue your right to bear arms every day. This kid exercised his right to the same. Did he wield the gun? I don't know....you don't either. I personally tend to believe that he didn't. At the end of the day good americans such as yourself ALWAYS weigh in on the side of the media and the police so it doesn't even matter whether he did or didn't. These kids civil rights are being violated day in and day out..
How dare you shoot our criminals and think you can get away with it.
marj,
Lemme guess, you're related to this kid? If not, why are you defending a gang-banger that waived a gun (exercising his rights "as you say") at police officers or anyone else for that matter? Pffft!!!!
The way I see it, regardless of "your" post (which makes no sense at all) there is one less gangster on the streets today.
Have a nice life.... and according to your post, be careful. "Real" careful...
Steve,
Undercover officers are all over NYC. They're not on a special mission. They just cruise the strip looking for anyone suspicious.
If they were uniformed, then anyone who is in a gang, drugs etc... would see them from a mile away and they would just turn and walk.
Like what?! Arresting him "again", put him in jail for awhile "with his buddies", let him back on the streets "again" only to repeat offending?
Is that what you mean??
Steve, are you being facetious, lol! This happened in New York City! Lots of criminals, both teenagers and adults, have guns in that 'gun free zone'! Of course a libbie would assume the cops shot a defenseless kid and planted a gun on him. Did you also think Treyvon Martin was a cute kid, killed by a racist?
Every gang banging kid in NYC knows who the cops/narcs are, regardless of uniform. He was acting suspicious, because he saw the cops and got nervous. They were obviously right that he was up to no good. I see no reason to protest here.
Racking up 4 arrests by 16 ain't easy. Sounds like we saved years of tax money on his prison stays, which was surely his future.
Steve needs to visit NYC...
I'm curious about how old the pic of of him. There is a FB site up for him, all the pics are of him as a 10yr old or somewhere abouts.
$100 says he was just the typical thug gangbanger with his 4 previous arrests. Hell the dope was 16 and had already been arrested 4 times. How much crime did he get away with?
I'm also going to assume that the cops were also black, or NBC would have posted some cropped pictures of them at a Klu meeting.
Looks like another POS bit the dust. Poor little darling, all he did was point a gun at the cops............
@CreekDog...
I have no idea who this child is. One shouldn't have to be related to someone to use objective reasoning and logic to see past prejudice and racism...or to be empathetic to a child. MOREOVER....I'm not dumb enough to be inherently upset about gang affiliation. WTF is a gang except a POV???? The police are a gang...the government of the united states is a gang YOU'RE a member of a gang....you just call it different stuff and you happen to be accepted by society. Congratulations on being born a white male in America...
I'm sorry you weren't able to understand what I wrote, although it doesn't surprise me. I hope you don't think I'm afraid of that meaningless threat either. Go read a book or something...you need to stop watching hollywood movies. They're messing your mind up.
marj: you brought up the issue for law abiding citizens to bear arms. This young felon is the reason we want the right to protect ourselves.
And I thought your ilk was the sort that wants ONLY the police to be armed. If that's the case, then you must accept, as members of the government, they are infallible and always acting in the public's best interest.
You see how some people just don't get it. You could almost figure a protest when you read the story. But no one protest what this kid was doing on the street with a 357 Magnum in his pants. I'm not being heartless because he was so young. If you want to protest something ask his parents where he got the gun from. He did not get it legally,for all you gun crazies out there. God rest his poor soul.
As if it would matter even if he didnt have a gun and was shot just another day, investigation full pay holidays and your free to go, and my guess chances are they never said who they were and there guns were waving first but would it really matter
Marj -
This is an NBCnews site, if there was anything racially based they could have pulled on this article to make the cops look like racists, they would have. Nobody but a few leftist extremists believes much they read from NBC, but the fact is if NBC didn't write a race-baiting article, then racism is definitely out of play ehre.
And for your attempt at race baiting; I and I'll assume most others saying this probably was a legit shooting, would all be saying the same thing if the 4 time arrestee was white or any other ethnicity. You are the racist one for thinking this is about color, the rest of us are just happy that there is one less criminal on the streets.
gee another innocent punk shot. oh well!having just turned 60 i think back to when i was a little punk you never dis respected a cop! i remember on more than one time getting a slap up side the back of the head by the neighborhood cop you didnt say anything because you would really get your azz beat when you got home. these guys nowadays are just little punks we didnt go around shooting people. if you had a beef with someone you settled it with a fist fight! one on one no one else jumping in. just you and the other guy. these guys now are just a bunch of spineless puzzys!
So a punk gang banger with a gun got shot when he pulled the gun on cops. What part of stupid are we supposed to overlook? Cops are not required to 'give a warning' when someone pulls a gun - it's all about who shoots first.
Sounds like another excuse to rally against the 'racist' cops! I see an 8:30pm 'scheduled protest' is planned, we must let the $hit disturbers, Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton, have a chance to get their 2 cents in:
'The cops should have waited until the kid fired the gun at them, before they shot him.. an obvious over reaction by the authorities!'.. /sarc
They needed to protest because they needed to break some windows in a store front and steal some stuff. If you just break storefront windows and steal stuff without a protest... that's a crime.
You are right Marj
This morning the local radio station played the Rolling Stones song,
"The police in New York City, chased a boy right through the park"..
Then I read this. Funny.
So a punk draws a gun, and the office is supposed to give him a warning before shooting him? Yeah right. Freeze poliiiiiiiii ("damn, the punk shot me").
This is another reason NOT to have gun control. If this punk didn't have a gun, he'd still be at large today. Good riddance.
Marj, I don't know what your thought process is, but I highly doubt Gray was some upstanding citizen just walking down the street. Even if the undercover police were targeting him this time, it is difficult to believe that there is a conspiracy to frame a 16 year old with grand larceny (4 times) and illegal gun possession.
If you think this "protest" was actually meant to be a protest you are also naive. I think the protest was a setup to commit organized crime. Its easier to get away with looting as a group than it is as individuals.
http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20121005/jackson-heights/unarmed-man-killed-by-nypd-queens-wanted-become-cop-mom-says are u all happy about this too by the way they got a holiday and walked
"every cop is a criminal and all the sinners saints." another rolling stone song.
Cops in New York come in two sizes. Good, and down right Evil. The whole cop culture is destructive unto itself. Where else can you read a story of a cop sticking a plunger in a mans behind. Where else can you see Cops beat up a bunch of un-armed yuppies and run one over with a motor bike, and sit there while the hot muffler burns him, pretending not to notice the screams. Only in NYC, home of the Giuliani, Land of the Bloomberg.
this kid may have done exactly what cops said he did, but then again, maybe they lied. No worries, I'm sure god has the video tape. (so to speak).
makes me wonder
Honestly, "You" make "me" wonder.
So, what's your point?! Happy about what?! Stop tree huggin' gang-bangers. Unless of course, that's what you're into...
Why don't you go to the next vigil and state your case?
BTW, pick me up a couple pair of Nike's while your there. Be careful of the broken glass and make sure there is no shards inside the sneakers please. That could be seriously dangerous you know...
A 16 y.o. with an illegal gun and a criminal record shows the effectiveness of the juvie court system. The little darling brought this to a successful conclusion sooner rather than later since the outcome was inevitable.
rule #1) never point a firearm at anyone (anything) unless you intend to use it.... case closed.
the so called kid was a thug, a little lowlife punk, who wanted his freebies, and was willing to shoot someone, obviously. if the cops were undercover or not is irrelevant, and have a hard time thinking they didn't announce themselves. the tag along buddy of his my guess in on whatever suspicious activity was going on as well, how else would he have been close enough to hear from the get go?
hats off to the police for taking one low life pos off the taxpayers dime.... keep up the good work!
and his illegitimate parents should be hauled into court as well, and held as delinquent.
Very cleansed article. Looking into this further it was not a disorderly vigil it culminated in a full scale riot complete with assault, vandalism and theft. Perhaps this boy, with a history of larceny, grand larceny etc, was given a sendoff in the same style that he lived his life.
Perhaps his family and community should have cared more about the values of this boy before he picked up the gun and pointed it at police.
The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun..........NRA
@makes me wonder.. I am not sure you read the article you referenced.
Let's count them. Failed to Yield to Police. Excessive Speed. Weaving in and out of lanes. Failed to follow directives. Made a sudden and agressive movement. ...
He was friends with a police officer. A member of the National Guard. And picking up a friend at a hookah lounge, where he also worked part-time. I wonder what happens at hookah lounges. Let's ask Jerry Garcia, or Tommy Chong, or anyone who likes the time 420.
I am especially surprised at the Vigil. Why would someone seeking peace, suddenly turn violent and cement this young man's legacy by breaking and entering.
@Creek Dog
I think his point is that you can't be sure if the cops are telling the whole truth or not. You appear to have inferred a few things into this particular story, including that he was a 'gang-banger'. There's nothing there that says he was. Maybe it's likely, but you have nothing that says it and yet you're out there stating it as fact. I'm not about to cry for the loss of this kid myself (multiple arrests and carrying a gun at 16 doesn't look good) but I'm also not about to discount the idea that the cops could have been out of line. Your own prejudice seems to be stopping you from considering that possibility.
Cops DO act bad and lie. It happens. The stupid cop in Philly who beat a woman to the floor as he 'thought' she had thrown something at him (she hadn't) is a case in point. I've seen them act in what I thought was an overly aggressive manner myself.
We need cops to act as close to perfect as is possible, otherwise they begin to lose credibility.
rob80 .... feel free to suit up!
I disagree Capt.,
you stop a bad boy from becoming a bad boy by being a parent first. The shoot out can come later after actual attempts have failed.
we could have a lower crime rate right from the start. screw mandatory prison for theft, abuse, murder, and so on. we should take a civil stance on eye for an eye. Islam law? no.. get rid of prison work camps that we pay in, and don't pay out. you steal, lose a finger. do it again, lose another, and another till you learn. you kill someone in cold blood? you lose your life. stab someone? beat them with a bat? ya, you get the point. give back to them in the same fashion the crime was committed. see how fast things change... can see it now...
you want to beat the snot out of your nemesis with a bat? well maybe the people before you who did the same, and got beat with a bat for doing it to someone else might make you think before doing it? your buddy who's lost 1-3 fingers for shop lifting. or the primary hand for grand theft... 2nd thoughts? lose both hands like should happen to the former mayor kwami of Detroit for sending it bankrupt and stealing from the taxpayers millions?
would cost far less to achieve a drop in crime, when those willing to offend realize, the 3 hots and a cot program is no longer available don't you think? no, it isn't pretty... sounds like something cavemen or animals might do... but who in reality is the animal? maybe showing the animals on this planet, they are not the only animals, and not the top dog, but just another dog, and one in its place might give the good folk a better advantage, and save tax dollars as well.... making people think twice is not a crime when the ample tools to do so are presented before them in black and white... feeding, housing, caring, and paying their way for a better life after doing a wrong is.
Creek Dog
I have to give credit where it is due. You are much kinder than I in the face of rampant stupidity and ignorance.
Neither do I. Nor would I ask, were he brandishing a weapon in my presence.
Agreed. However, when a child takes up the tools of an adult, they shouldn't be surprised (nor should you) when they are treated like an adult.
So, if someone were breaking into your house, which gang would you call ..... the Cops or the Crips?
Thank you. I have never felt that the circumstances of my birth, over which I had no control, were something worthy of congratulations, but I am grateful for them nonetheless.
I understood perfectly what you wrote. That bleeding heart might be cured by the application of a tourniquet. Say, above the shoulders?
I just read the following in an article about the shooting...
So my point is this says the cops got out of a car and began talking to the teens...i am guessing, although i could be wrong, that the car they were driving is the same kind all undercover cops drive and ALL criminals know it's undercover cops when they see it...plus they were actually already talking to the teens when this kid ran...so i doubt they were talking about the weather...plus he could have just kept running...he didn't HAVE to pull out the gun...people let's place the blame where it truly lies...first on the kid...then on his parents for allowing him to be out at 11:30pm...PLUS he had just been arrested 3 times since October...what kind of parent let's a kid who's been arrested 3 times in the last 3 months out of the house AT ALL...it's not the cops fault PERIOD
PS
THIS IS NOT A RACIAL ISSUE...but ofcourse that card will be pulled like it ALWAYS is...here comes Jesse Jackson and AL Sharpton! haha
Wonder when al and jesse will show up to defend the POS and lather up the "hood"???
I have a hard time balancing liberal thinking:
Don't shoot the criminals on the streets even if they have a gun and are waving it at you because that's just wrong.
Do take the legal guns away from people who possess them legally because they might someday be used in a crime.
Don't believe the police officers in the field because they are all liars.
Do hire more police officers.
Don't profile the Islamic extremists.
Do use drones to target even US citizens without trial because you think they may be terrorists.
What gives, people? It's time you explain yourselves.
Criminals protesting the death of a criminal. I am a little disgusted by the nerve of them. The Martin case, I can see why people protested. Overall he was a regular teen going about his own business when someone thought he did not belong there when he had every right to be there. In this case the young boy was obviously up to no good and the police had a right to defend themselves. It is sad that a life is lost. I am pretty sure it was lost a long time before this encounter.
It sounds more like they executed this kid. They were undercover and NOT IN UNIFORM. They could also be corrupt....there's a thought. If somebody walks up to me and points a gun at me in plain clothes, whether they say they are a cop or not I am probably going to shoot them. Lots of people pose as police. Locally there is a pair posing as "detectives" that have been robbing people with a fake badge and everything. I'll take my chances either way.
Morning bill, cory and the rest of you guys.
Thanks bill. Like you, I just say it how it is. Your last line was totally hilarious man. Your punctuation accentuates your posts... Love it...
Rob80,
This vine is for us to post our thoughts how we see them and or want to.
This is what I do. Just as you did yourself.
I respect 99% of all posts considering we're all individuals who come from different backgrounds, regions, races etc.... or this would be one boring as hell world to live in.
It's in human nature to learn and build upon every ones idea's whether you like them or not.
OK, I will restate it in a different way to feel a little more warm and fuzzy;
He was "not" an outstanding fine young citizen but he may have tried.
He owned a gun that was not registered. Man, he should've registered it and had a license to carry.
He shouldn't have waived a .38 around like that because somebody might realy get hurt.
He should have taken hand gun lessons to understand them much better.
Maybe he should have been in the house doing homework at 16 instead of hanging out on the streets or this would't have happened.
May he now rest in peace for all eternity with the angels.
Take care...
WTFpeps,
You're incorrect. Senior Project Manager Utility Engineer, , married 28 yrs with two kids and my son in his 5th yr of college to become a Computer Scientist.
Homeownersince 1989. 5'-11 175lbs. Happy. Fishing, hunting, Quadding in the back woods.
So,...... nope.
Have a nice day...
@Spike.... Now we could say the little perp is a "blood drop"? The ebony thug probably should have been popped a long time ago.
Hey, Creek Dog.... hope WTFpeps moronic rampage didn't hurt your feelings (sarc). I'm still in your fan club. ;) Hopefully, pep has taken it's meds and calmed down by now......or not.
What I find amusing is, had it been the gang-banger doing the shooting, and it was just some other gang-banger... nobody would have heard anything either... ICDS - Inner City Deafness Syndrome.
WTFpeps??
Here's a news flash...HE PULLED A GUN ON COPS...that will and SHOULD get you shot every time whether you're white, black, yellow, or purple...why do blacks try to justify the criminals actions and blame the cops EVERY TIME a white cop shoots a black suspect? one time i saw on the news the mother of a black teen who was shot while wrestling with a cop and trying to steal the cops weapon...the mother said "he was a good boy, that cop didn't have to shoot him" STUPID STUPID STUPID...who you should really be blaming are the kids parents who even let him out of the house after being arrested 3 times in 5 months AND you should be blaming YOUR culture that raises kids like him EVERY DAY...wake up and get real!!!!
Many street gangs have "community activists" to run protests and non-profits laundering their drug money.
Pull a gun on someone, cop or not, expect to get shot. Sorry kid no pity for you here.
That goes both ways creekdog. How do you know that the guy who said the police didn't warned him was the victim's buddy. The boy had no business with a gun period. Yet you've made the leap of assumption that the police story is the gospel when someone clearly said to the contrary. U just said if someone was waiving a gun at u, they'd be dead. If they were undercover and did not identify themselves and had their guns out waving it at u, based on what u just said, u'd be dead .
Two weeks ago a jury in NYC found a man guilty of 2nd degree murder because he shot a cop in the face and killed him. The perp claimed he did not mean to shoot the officer, he tripped and the gun went off and accidentally shot the offfice center mass in his face. A couple of jurors, as always seems to happen, apparently prefer black gang banger perps to police officers.
Mario Cuomo former Governor of NY State, the father of Andrew Cuomo, current Governor of NY State, refused to sign death penalty legislation, and guaranteed that life without parole was a better option to make the police safe. He was voted out after he vetoed the legislation.
Ransacking stores is typical of this demographic, as is claiming the police did not identify themselves, the community activists train them to do this.
Is the drone required to identify itself?
For you that say the cops did not identify themselves, the article, paragraph 4 says that they identified themselves and only fired when the kid pulled a 38. Good for them. Two cops still alive and one hoodlum on a slab.
rkb5555, the original article that did not allow commentary identified the witness as being with the group that the 16 year old was with, and I maintain inner city activists train them to say the police did not identify themselves.
I am taking the liberty of adding your thoughts to my lexicon of Liberal beliefs. In order to be a good Liberal, you have to believe:
This sleeze was arrested 4 times before his 17th birthday. Oh, and was packing. Nuff said.
The "community" deciding to trash their own neighborhood doesn't surprise me. This is their modus operandi.
too bad the protesters don't spend as much time teaching their kids right from wrong as they do how to loot and steal from innocent people
But I'm sure Spike Lee approves of the mob reaction....after all, they're "doing the right thing"
@WTFpeps - in Brooklyn, I've seen the same thing you described - no siren, no lights until the last second and then when the car stops, the cops have jumped out, guns pointed - the last one I watched from my window, 8 cop cars came within 3 seconds, - as I leaned out my window videotaping it all, one officer says, "86, we have too many eyes." Three seconds later - all cop cars (some unmarked) gone, the two guys in the car were still standing with their hands up? Everyone calls this kid a POS, he probably heard that from teachers, and every adult he ran into etc... The cops have vests, if the kid was a threat, can't they aim?? at a leg, at anything that is not fatal for the kid? For those of you who do not have the pleasure of living in Brooklyn - please stop thinking that every inner-city minority is a gang-banger. If you leave them alone, they leave you alone, it's pretty simple, that never happens though, I see the disparaging looks that a kid with baggy pants gets, I think they look much better than skinny jeans on a guy but just mind your own business, or say a kind word, these our all our children and not "POS."
@Marj (below this comment) - I totally agree with you!
Sgt. John Buthorn ...
I know it's juvenile, but it's freakin' hilarious
@marj-3461288...this "kid" did NOT have ANY legal "right" to bear arms! what are you smoking?
Blackkettle: What are you rambling on about?? These are all OUR kids?? Not my kids pal. Get real.
The police only shot one?
So he was protesting...........what??
They identified themselves as police officers and his response was to point a gun at them..!!
doesn't matter if they identified themselves... they were not entering a residence, and the little pr!ck took off running when they approached him. the police approached the group of people. guessing by this time they had long ago identified themselves....if not figured it out for themselves....
color, or race? you think black ghetto trash fear whites? reeeaaaly? not unless they have a badge, and even then, lol...
poor lad wasn't ghetto trash? maybe you need to read the NY news version, and go to FB comments below? as if the pimples rap sheet at age 16 wasn't enough already...
the so called kid was a scab on society... no cure, just an infected scab, that could breed more scabs... good riddance!
you life is what you make it... live like trash, die like trash. live an honest life, to make better for yourself, works out good unless some piece of trash comes and takes it from you.... like this scab had a good chance of doing eventually....
I guess you guys just gloss over articles like this:
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bad-cop-7-cities-where-shocking-police-abuses-cost-taxpayers-millions
New York
Chicago -
GM, Great posts Bill. And spot on!
and since jon burge, left the Chicago police force, the city of Chicago has made leap and bound progress with the crime rate dropping to an all time low?
@marj
The question is not was he deserving of being shoot, the question is; "Was the shooting justified?" The answer; Because he was armed, raised his weapon at officers, and therefor an imminent threat, yes, it was justified. Simple. If you can't figure that out, you too, are simple.
So, Gray was born with stolen goods in his possession? No, I didn't think so. He was born with a revolver attached to his body? No. It's glaringly obvious that you are attempting to paint this as a "cops singling Black people for no good reason" scenario. Fat chance. Take race out of the equation; cops targeting people with a propensity for criminal activity. Period.
He was acting suspicious because he suddenly tried to exit the scene when the car carrying the undercover officers pulled up. He was acting suspicious because he began "adjusting his pants" when asked to show his hands, which witnesses did corroborate. Immediately after, the officers claim, Gray turned with the revolver in hand. It has been reported elsewhere that the witnesses refuse to give statements as to what led the officers to open fire. But, witness statements that Gray was running from the officers does not mesh with the evidence, that Gray was shot in the stomach, and therefor facing the officers at the time of the shooting.
This is an idiotic statement. The 2nd Amendment provides no protection for a minor to possess and illegally conceal a handgun.
Marj, if Trayvon had not been peeping into other people's windows, if he had not confronted the person about why he was being followed, if he had not ATTACKED the person then he would still be alive. I am 54. If I am getting my head beat against the ground by someone much younger and stronger than I am and IF I have a gun it will be deployed. I have every much a right to live as the next person and not be maimed or killed just because it is a minor that is trying to harm me.
Both of these youth were quickly on their way to being hardened criminals with several items on their rap sheet.
Let's see. What we know is that this was an armed gangbanger with a record, all at the age of 16. Dead or in prison, his future was assured.
A thug with a long record got blown away...good riddance!
Run with the dogs, die like one. These same people protesting are the same one's screaming because the police aren't protecting them from the freaking gangbangers. Can't have it both ways people. Ya'll have a nice day now.
marj - I hang out with a lot of black people in NYC that have never been arrested and don't have records - so your comment about all of them being arrested is ridiculous.
Also, to compare this incident to the Trayvon Martin incident is borderline stupid - Zimmerman is not a policeman and from my view of the Martin/Zimmerman case, Zimmerman should go to jail (as I don't think he was getting his head pounded into concrete, don't think he was attacked or beat as he described and think he started the entire confrontation)...but wait, how can I think that, I'm white?
i thought guns were illegal in new york anyway? so not only did he point it at them he shouldn't have even had it. and i am sure a universal background check would have prevented this as well right?
"Gray had previously been arrested four times for charges including grand larceny, according to NBCNewYork.com."
I for one would like to offer Kimani my heartfelt thanks for providing the police a legitimate opportunity to remove his worthless ass from society. And on behalf of the black people of New York, I would like to further thank Kimani for providing them an excuse to loot their own town because as we know, nothing says we miss you like grand larceny.
@Black Kettle
So, the cops encounter an armed threat, and you want them to aim at the threatening suspect's legs? Should the cops assume that the suspect is not aware of their vests, or is somehow magically barred from hitting them anywhere but in their vests, and that the bullets striking them can not possibly penetrate the vest? Pure idiocy.
First, there is no such thing as a "bullet proof" vest. They are bullet resistant. Second, it hurts like hell, potentially to point of being disabled while in a life or death situation, to take a hit in a bullet resistant vest. Third, it is much more difficult to target and hit a leg than it is to hit the center of mass. All the while, the assailant is moving, and firing back without the consideration of going for a "wound shot." Not to mention the greater potential for missed shots, with the potential to strike innocent bystanders. Fourth, do think a superficial wound will guarantee that the assailant will stop? It doesn't. In a life or death situation, the intent is to cause the assailant to cease their assault by rendering them physically incapable of continuing. Not to give the assailant pause with a superficial wound and cause them to contemplate stopping because the next shot may not be superficial. Again, pure idiocy.
No law enforcement officer, or anyone else for matter, fires shots with the intent for superficial wounds. Leg shots, or shooting the weapon out of the assailant's hand, only occur in the movies. I'd be willing to bet, based on the obvious ignorance of your suggestion, that you've never even fired a gun. Let alone been in a life or death scenario, when adrenaline is pumping, the pulse is pounding, tension is high, a thousand thoughts per second are flashing through your mind, no one involved is static, and shots are flying. This is real life, welcome to it, check the idiocy at the door, please.
Nobody knows exactly what happened, except the witnesses who were there. We don't know if the police actually felt their lives were threatened or if the boy was killed for daring to run away.
What is more concerning, is not the alleged gangbanger who was shot dead, not the police who may or may not be corrupt, but the people posting here who believe killing is deserved and get excited at the thought of blood being spilled, without even knowing the actual facts.
You're all just as complicit as those doing the actual killings, when you should be the voice of reason. Our society is sick. It's not just the gangbanger or the corrupt police, or the dirty politicians, or greedy Wall Street. You all contribute, and your "get on the bandwagon for blood" posts show it.
And btw, did anyone give a thought to the possibility of police planting a gun? It happens.
http://www.ocregister.com/news/training-48669-police-cox.html
"Gray had previously been arrested four times for charges including grand larceny, according to NBCNewYork.com."
What is sad in this story is a young life snuffed out by his own personal choices. When is his community going to take the actions necessary to ensure their young men have good fathers and mothers making sure they can grow up to be productive citizens? If this young man had used his abilities for good what change could he have brought to our world? Maybe the next Dr. Ben Carson or President of the United States. Children don't raise themselves. Even with the best environment some will choose the easy way in life...and experience the consequences. The community should gather around and make sure their young men are doing their homework and pursuing healthy activities...not demonstrating how this child was raised to be a rioter and looter. Sad response by those who don't have a clue why they are victims. They are first a victim to their own selfish thinking and extend that to their children. Victims to generations of "us" versus "them" thinking. The reality is we are all equal until we decide and act like we are not equal under the law. So what and who cares what other people may think about you...you have a choice for good or for evil. Choose good and live.
I feel a lot more sad about the 6 month old girl that was shot 5 times and killed by a gang banger in Chicago than a hood stupid enough to pull a gun on cops.
Here's a thought - If he was still in jail from his arrest for grand larceny, he'd still be alive today, so with a long 'rap sheet' at age 16, why did a judge let him out of jail?
Children on the streets armed with handguns, 16 yr old with 3 priors already; God, i am glad i am now retired, we have lost control of our inner city's, they are all becoming war zones; our welfare society, no male must be in the home, women having 5-10 children with 5-10 different males,; children with no home life; we have fostered our own demise of our civilization.
@Creek Dog
That's fine and all, but you appeared to be misrepresenting what someone else was saying. Which you are again doing by saying this to me:
I said myself that I felt it was 'likely' he was in a gang but that, regardless, his having already had a rap sheet and owning a gun at 16 didn't look good. The point being you don't need to sensationalize anything there. Put it this way, if a prosecutor sensationalizes, their case can fall apart because of it. It's not a good thing to do.
Why would you think I need to feel "warm and fuzzy"? I said I wasn't about to cry over this kid.
So, we go from being in agreement about most things to do with this (that the kid probably got what was coming to him) to you now giving the impression I'm apologizing for him?
And then you get Denver Bill with his ridiculous list, put together on that kind of basis. Don't go being nuts like that, what you post on here is most often more measured than that.
What this?..... Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday, two of the fastest draws in the NYPD approached a kid with their pistols holstered and proved their reputations were deserved when a black kid in Brooklyn tested their draw. The kid was warned to throw down his gun but instead thought he he had the advantage when he seen the lawmen didn't have their firearms drawn.
Another story....Two men prowling the streets of Brooklyn, looking like thugs approached a nervous kid that thought he was being followed by two men in thug clothing. He sees both men with pistols drawn and fears the end is coming soon and his only chance is to defend himself. He pulls his gun.....but this is the end for him. The two men turned out to be two undercover policemen. No courts, no lawyers, just a cheap funeral and a pretend investigation. The 16 year old kid had been ARRESTED for larcency four times previously, once for alledgedly stealing something valued at more than $1000. The story ends with the citizens feeling much safer now that the law has removed another scourge from their streets.
Where's the real story? I don't know and doubt we ever will, because as has been said before...."dead men tell no tales". But I always get just a little suspicious when when cops kill someone.....must be from knowing firsthand about them my entire life.
Is it really happenstance, or is there more.
Roy wilson.....arrested for isn't the same as convicted of. Did he have his trials? If not, he'll never get them now. Justice?
He was guilty, johnnyt. If you doubt that then I can only assume it's because your pet unicorn has been whispering to you again.
Why do blacks (some) feel it's OK to destroy or steal others property when they're mad?
@marj I get what you are saying, but I can also read between the lines, I believe you are probably a person of color or an activist who spends most of their times debating the lastest trend in protests. Either way doesn't matter to me. Either way saying he grew up black and in NY automatically gets you a record, people can choose to live anyway they want these days, what not enough money floating around for the needy? Sometimes it's not about the money, it's a lifestyles choice. I would like to know if his mom is on welfare and if they are provided for? So what would be the excuse then? That to me is racist just saying because he's black and lives in NY automatically makes him a criminal, If I where a hardworking blackman who takes care of his family and is employeed, I'd be pissed about now.
And secondly no where does it say you have the right to carry a gun at 16 and most likely unregistered guns, gun owners believe in these laws, criminals don't. That is why they are in place, maybe they should investigate how the kid got the gun instead of the cops, the kids was probably acting tough and pulled a piece, you only do it once, he got his shot, how'd that work out for him, it's thug life.
I don't go anywhere near large cities anymore just for this fact, that I believe there is more racist blacks against white then the other way around. A grudge is more dangerous than any firearm in my book, but put both together you get a dead kid.
Maybe somebody can look it up for me, since I don't have the time, but if anyone can punch up the crime stats for black on white crime that would be swell. and vice versa to show what I mean.
Not sure why race is even an issue here. If this were a white kid who ran from police then pulled a gun, and wound up dead by police, I wouldn't give a sh^t about him either. lol
I may be anti low-life, but not a racist.
The cops finally did their job right and people are getting upset about it. I understand that yes we do have the right to bear arms if need be, but he was only 16 he couldn't possibly have gotten that gun legally and he had no reason to pull it out in the first place. He also had a criminal record, and was acting suspicious, it's safe to assume that he was up to no good and that's why he took out the weapon to scare off any distractions. Unfortunately he was killed and couldn't be apprehended. Also, people are getting upset that the undercover officers didn't identify themeselves? They're undercover for a reason.
Who cares if they identified themselves or not. Kid raised a gun. Oh the potential that has been lost today. He could have grown up and really been something said absolutely nobody...
Scheduled protest must mean planned riot. Something was stolen? Get out!!!!!
Saxon....welcome to life in 21st century NY. It really isn't a lot different than life was in NY back in the 20th century and even the 19th century. There's just a new group vying for control of the crime now. Once every other avenue is closed, where do you go? The lure of easy money and excitement of belonging to something beats out school and poverty any day. It might be a short career, but most kids don't think further out than a day or two.
I think you're just hoping you can dodge the dangers for for a few more years and let someone else deal with it, but as it continues to expand, where does that leave your family that's left behind and your's and their descendants?
What should we do? Build a wall around Upper Manhattan and relocate everyone that's a single mother and all her children there? Some might think that's a grand idea, because Bill Clinton has his office there and that SOB deserves it! Even others might like it for different reasons. The problem of single mothers won't being going away for a long, long time....if ever. We could go back to the Breast Ripper, that might be a deterrent. Forced sterilizations.....that's been done before also. They've tried lots of things before and failed at them all. Was it because they weren't dedicated enough with their efforts? Some people even believe new technology has opened up the door to new techniques and with the proper dedication should yield satisfactory results next time around. We might be on the verge of a final solution to this age old vexing problem and at the same time do something about over population!
Caution should be used however, because previous attempts also saw other groups....especially old people with nothing to contribute and basically using up valuable resources that could be used more efficiently elsewhere, being not too far behind.
It's a serious problem. A problem, I believe left unresolved, because it's a great distraction that allows many other things to take place.
Ok, back to you, did you read it? However, one witness at the scene told NBCNewYork.com that he heard no warning being given.
If you pull a gun on someone you don't deserve a warning from anyone. To pull a gun on someone you must be willing to kill, it's not a joke.
Carryingconcealed......do you have any record of the verdicts? I don't, please provide me with them....or do you 'just know' he was guilty? Or is it that you believe he's gotten off before and he had to die for that?
Just Curious. Provide details of how you know he was guilty, please.
u make me wonder too
You guys are aware that police officers carry 'drop guns,' for situations such as this. Given the kid's background, I'd be willing to accept that he was carrying, he did draw on them and it as a righteous kill.
BUT - the problem anymore is that you just can't trust anyone. Criminals aren't going to tell the truth, but the police aren't going to fess up when they make a mistake. They'll just drop a gun and say that the guy pointed it at them. There are so many instances of this a year that it has become epidemic.
We need better solutions - that's it. Take the money out of the drug trade, politics, policing, war and incarceration and you'll see far fewer 16 year old children willing to carry around guns. Fewer 16 year old kids carrying around guns (as protection for when they are selling illicit drugs) and the police don't have to be so on edge every time they so much as talk to a citizen. Fewer on edge cops - fewer accidental 'murders.'
Cannonballer....so....if someone sees a couple people approaching him in the dark that looks like thugs with drawn guns, he should just stand there?
All you sheeple hanging onto every printed media word as if the media says it, it must be true. Lol.
The only fact anyone here actually has, is a 16 year old boy is dead.
What fools you all make yourselves out to be.
All it said was that the officers approached and the kid raised his .38 at them. It says nothing about the officers already drawing their weapons when they approached.
Being approached by someone doesn't warrant waiving a weapon around. I could care less if they were cops or if they identified themselves as cops. As a regular citizen if anyone starts to point a gun at me and I am also packing heat, that mofo is DEAD!
People b!tch about the streets not being safe and all, but then they riot and cause more destruction when one thug goes down. Ironic to say the least. If you don't respect the law or any one else, at least respect your own damn life. But to each their own I guess.
Where, oh where, was the Parent~were the Parents ?
16 year old with "heat" and loaded with FOUR ROUNDS.
And Bloomers have more important things to consider.....like BIG GULPS. (Sounds more and more like Cheeecago)
marj-3461288
The discussion around the killings of black children by police officers, or non people of color in this country is fascinating to me. Trayvon deserved to die for daring to defend himself from a gun weilding citizen, this child deserved to die because he....i can't even figure out what the arguments being presented here are really. Based on this article, which you (almost) all seem ready to take for the gospel, we know nothing about what actually occured at the scene except that this child is dead and two grown men killed him. EXCEPT we do know plenty about the circumstances that have served to criminalize him. Stop and Frisk ensures that almost every young black male of color is repeatedly arrested in NYC. SO WHAT if he has a record....they all have records because they were born black and reside in NYC....that means absolutely nothing to me, and it shouldn't serve to prejudice you against him either. He was acting suspiciously among a group of friends because he was adjusting his pants???? WTF does that even mean, and why would anyone be subjected to approach by police because of it???? 2. He had a gun (possibly). SO WHAT....most of you all argue your right to bear arms every day. This kid exercised his right to the same. Did he wield the gun? I don't know....you don't either. I personally tend to believe that he didn't. At the end of the day good americans such as yourself ALWAYS weigh in on the side of the media and the police so it doesn't even matter whether he did or didn't. These kids civil rights are being violated day in and day out..
Marj, that was one of the most hate filled, racist, and race baiting posts I have read here. You are straight up saying
"He is black so the cops were wrong. He is black so who cares he was in a gang, he is black so who cares if he has a criminal record, he is black so I doubt he actually pointed a gun at the cops, even if he did he was practicing his constitutional right."
Let me guess, you are an angry black person who feels that a law man at some time was racist to you?? You know everyone who has had to deal with cops knows that they can be jerks, it is rarely about race and more about respect, treat a cop like crap and he will reciprocate. Cops have the media and all kinds of community groups with a nose up their backsides looking for any misstep, are you really so hate filled that you would imagine that a cop would set out to ruin his career over killing someone simply because they are black?? Please, get down off you hate spewing soap box and actually think, you responded to someone else that you thinking 'logically' do you really know the meaning of the term?? Reread your post and actually think...
I do agree with you however that one need not be related to a suspected criminal to 'defend them' however you clearly have bias and then pretend to be rational....
Some people are so gullible they believe anything the cops say to the media. These people then regurgitate it as truth and make erroneous conclusions.
Cops lie. Cops commit perjury. Cops plant guns, knives, contrabands. Cops murder people. Cops steal from people. Cops conspire and frame the innocent.
Google Oakland Rider case or Los Angeles Rampart Division Scandal or the New Orlean Bridge shooting.
@ Johnnyt -
Impossible. If he were a law abiding person he wouldn't have had the handgun. One, he is under 21 making possession of a handgun illegal. Second, handguns require a permit in NYC and he didn't have one of those. The police were witnesses to a crime in progress as soon as they saw the handgun.
The undercover officers must have used their X-Ray vision to determination his age from his bone structure.
Next, they used their ESP powers to get his name, check the records, and once they determined there was no permit on file, made the determination there must be a crime in progress.
Talk about making assumptions. LMAO!!!
@ Creep Dog,
Nice how you accuse Amanda of jumping to conclusions, when the first sentence of the first comment, witch is yours, is a conclusion of your own and not one that was mentioned in the article. In fact your whole post is one big jump. "Idiot"!!!
Did you skip the whole reading the article and jump right to the comments?
The article says they ID'd themselves, a witness says they did not warn him. When police approach someone they are required to ID, if someone pulls a gun nobody is required to give a warning. Let me go over what i stated in my comment above, someone said they didn't ID themselves unlike what the article states, the article says a witness didn't hear a warning. Not identifying yourself and not giving a warning before shooting are not even close to being the same thing.
Granted there's a very high probability that the article is just flat out wrong, but what can you do other than wait for corrections, and hope it doesn't make a 180 degree turn.
Spooky ... ;)
Debi -13... = Moron !!!!!
edog...:
Hold on, world. I believe we have the next Einstein in the making here. You've just proven your capability of formulating up to six letter words. Jolly for you!
Thanks Deb (still a moron).
Still can't seem to get past those monumental six letters, heh edog?
Einstein was 26 when he published his paper on special relativity, which included E = mc2. Fortunately, you've still got another 20 years to reach his level. Good luck.
@Debi - great post #1.92 ! I have been thinking the same thing but your words were sentient and eloquent. The boy is dead, NYC cops are rated just behind Chicago in corruption, especially when dealing with persons of color. The hate for a boy that is now dead - it boggles my mind. I wonder how many people posting have ever been to the boroughs outside of the tourist trap of Manhattan - or even a city with a million residents. It seems they get their news about large cities from fictional TV shows and movies...
Excellent post (no sarcasm) - thank you for thinking like a human should, that this is a tragedy because a life was lost, yet it seems to be a celebration (as you pointed out) for societies "blood-lust."
May I reprint what you wrote - giving you full credit as the haters are up and running on "2nd night of protests over NYPD shooting." Or please come over to that NBC article and re-post your comment there (they want to fence in all black neighborhoods and "let them all kill themselves." (I'm not joking, that is how far this conversation has devolved - and calling people of color "apes" is not getting deleted by NBC or "the community.")
Black Kettle & Sand Creek...lest we forget:
I didn't see the other article you were referring to, but if you'd like to repost my comment, you have my permission.
It appears this country is living in times of "bread and circuses" and are losing any semblance of humanity. People are so far gone, even after my post, they didn't skip a beat and continued calling for blood.
Btw, love your avatar. I had a white one for 14 years and even though you love them all, he'll always be my top boy in my heart.
WTFpeps?? banned, only seven comments. All trolling and personal attacks. Not good.
johnnyt "Roy wilson.....arrested for isn't the same as convicted of. Did he have his trials? If not, he'll never get them now. Justice?"
When you get arrested and have a long rap sheet, the judge is justified in KEEPING you in jail UNTIL your trial. Ever hear of 'no bail' for repeat offenders?
Duh.
Obviously his rap sheet didn't warrant keeping him in jail.
@ Debi -
The fact remains that for whatever reason the police wanted to talk to him, he WAS a criminal possessing an illegal firearm. Giving him the benefit of a doubt just doesn't make sense since we all can see he was a criminal. It's not a difficult concept. Dreaming up all kinds of scenarios cannot change the fact that he was a criminal pointing a deadly weapon at someone and got himself dead for the effort.
Deb, Deb, Deb, ... you 'community activists' amuse me. Don't know @!$%# from shinola, but "Damnit, the cops shot a black kid, gotta be wrong!!!". Moron. You live in your own wonderland.
Gneisenau:
When did you acquire the same ESP as the undercover officers, because I was unable to "see" anything, as is your claim to know.
So you used your astral projection skills and witnessed the boy pointing a deadly weapon first hand?
Either your other worldly, super human traits are truly amazing, or I have mistaken you, like the rest of the sheeple, who have based everything on a two bit, one sided, unverified news article.
Which is it?
AND, I think he meant to spell "Peeps".. not good.
@ Debi - so what's you're saying is it's all the cops fault. That the fact that there is a gun present and everything else that happened is meaningless and worth less than someone's daydreams as far as determining who is at fault? You honestly believe Johnnyt's second scenario is the most believable?
The only real question right now seems to be if the cops identified themselves as police or not. Not if he had a gun or not and if he did have one then there is zero chance he's wasn't breaking the law. None, Zip, Zilch.
Actually Gneisenau, you nor I was present. So to put blame on either one at this point, is wrong.
saxon, you got a point... the destruction of the family and the development of a subculture with their own rules.
The cops did a public service. I wish I could thank the ones who killed him personally.
the city will give them a well earned paid vacation. ( officer involved shooting investigation)
Nuther GUNtotin PUNK off the Streets! KUDOS to the COPS!
16 years old, packing, and an established criminal record. A great American tragedy.
uhhhhhh, hey, now that we are all here, lets riot, and break stuff, like we always do....maybe people will feel sorry for us.....uhhhhhhh.
As a retired cop, I say "Thank you Dev79". Been there.
@ edog,
It's absolutely frightening for one to know you were allowed to be a cop now that you have made obvious your complete inability to form reasonable conclusions through rational thought. In other words your ignorance is stunning.
But what's truly troubling is in the knowing the possibly exists that many more cops equally as intelligent as yourself continue to patrol the streets of America as we speak.
Societies real menace are the criminals with a badge, they are the ones I and everybody for that matter should fear most. For it is that element that is far more dangerous than any street criminal could ever be to the continued erosion of what's left of the personal liberties we like to brag so much about in this country.
Left to our own devices I think society is better equipped to guard against the thugs and criminal types anyway. I can take care of myself, my family, and whomever else's behalf in which I choose to intervene as most of us probably can whether individually or as a group. Besides the cops don't really provide us any security against them anyway, there roll is more after the fact. More and more the very laws which are strangling the rest of us are providing more power and increased safety for cops. the very cops who are charged to serve us. How moronic is that? Thanks for nothing.
@SoCal - Good, call Deb next time you need help.
edog:
There are many of us who were not brought up in a culture to live on governmental dependency.
If SoCal were in need and requested my assistance, I would certainly help out and bring along my trusty Beretta w/laser sight, if necessary, or else my Mossberg because just the cocking sound alone is enough to be effective.
Law enforcement really needs to get over themselves; they are not our "saviors" nor "all that". Many times, they're more trouble than they're worth.
Btw, how's that new relative theory coming?
He's 16 and was arrested 4 times previously - I'm sure he gave the police his immediate attention and respect when they showed up. Yeah, I'm sure he did nothing wrong and it's everyone else's fault but his.
If this had been some 16 year old who had never been in trouble previously, then I could actually see having a vigil and walk, but let's be realistic here.
Strange day i find myself in total agreement with sleepin......odd.
I swear....as long as I just read the news reports and move on with my day...I have a good start to my morning. Reading the comments on here makes me absolutely LOATHE white people. Every single time. Every time. You all are so RACIST and ignorant of documented truths that I just....I'm so glad my education elevated me to a place in life that affords me the ability to live outside of trailer parks. I don't know if I could stand to interact with people like you in my back yard.
wow these days are really strange are they not.
gm scooter
ouch marj...... sounds like you're the racist here girl!
Agreed marj i can see Racist all over these comments this world is headed somewhere not good real soon there brain takes it like a movie they only care when it effects them
Marj, YOU are the one trying to make this a race issue. There's a fairly good chance at least one of the cops who shot him was black. The color of his skin is IRRELEVANT! Do you think for ONE minute the cops would hesitate if it was a white thug pointing a gun at them? Just because you claim to have an education doesn't mean you're smart.
Why don't you go white-face and point a gun at some NYC cops late at night and help society out by removing yourself from the gene pool.
marj, judging from your comments, I'd be very uncomfortable with you as a neighbor, let alone interact with you in your backyard... yikes! Open your eyes girl!
I am trying to figure out where the right to ransack a business and steal things comes in. I am sure they will come up with a valid excuse....righttttttttt.
Apparently marj's education has elevated her to a place where gang membership is ok, a 16 year old with an extensive criminal record is a "child", white people are out to get her and the police have no responsibility to stop someone dressed in gang colors behaving as if he has a gun in his waist band. Where, pray tell, do you live, marj? Lemme ask you this; what do you think would have happened if the "child" had simply stopped, put his hands up, and admitted he had a gun on him?
Fools like you are exactly why racism exists. You whine and cry about how you're treated, but you continue to make excuses and rationalizations for the behavior of your criminals. White or black, pulling a gun on a police officer gets you shot, and rightly so. And your answer to this problem is always blame the cops. Do you admit the guy was wrong for having an illegal gun? No. Nobody should be able to tell him what to do. Do you decry the epidemic of gang violence in this country? No. Gangs are ok with you, apparently. Do you care about the past or future victims of this "child" who very obviously thinks the "thug life" is the way to go? No. Your main concern is that black people who choose to commit crimes are being troubled by white folks while doing so. Get a grip.
Maybe instead of glorifying drug dealers and gang members like jay z or fifty cent and allowing children to walk the streets in the middle of the night when they should be home in bed the answer to the problem is a stable home, loving parents and a little discipline. Guess that never occurred to you right? After all, 150 years ago you were discriminated against so you have a right to behave like animals now. YOU, and enablers like you, are the problem; not the cops.
And whatever education you've received that led you to think this way is a ripoff; get your money back.
or maybe he was remembering Amadou Diallo and his fate. They should check the bullets for fingerprints. see who loaded the gun. Maybe a cop?
It worked for the group that tried to kill Reginald Denny and the rioting in LA. The excuse was "pack mentality" - where acting like animals (since humans don't congregate in "packs") is an allowable and excusable defense.
Vigil uh ya ya thats what they call an organized mob.Bunch of gang bangers get together to send one of their own off in style with the way they live. With you all the way on that Robby
I am sorry to see a life wasted and snuffed out at such a young age, and my prayers go out to his family. That being said, I find it funny that people like Marj are the same ones who say, "we don't want anyone to have guns, guns are scary and dangerous!" , but when something like this happens where a sixteen year old is shot by the police for having a gun pointed at them then it becomes a racial shooting because he was black! Where is the outcry over a sixteen year old having a handgun! They never say, "Well he did have a .38 pointed at the police officers".... no it's always"It was because he was black!". to all of those people who are saying this was just a 16 year old kid and didn't deserve to be shot, I say that I don't believe that with a .38 pointed at them, the officers are going to take the time to ask the perp's age. Here is a novel idea! Why don't you teach your kids to respect the law and to not be a four time offender by the age of 16. Teach your children to work for and earn what they want and not to steal it from those of us that do, because I am sorry but I am not going to ask your age if I catch you messing with my family or property, I will just get that information off of your I.D. when I pull it from your pocket to help identify the body. Oh, and by the way it wouldn't matter what color you are, my bullets are color blind so don't try to play the race card either!
marj: I have a Master's degree & I live on 2+ acres, but if I had a choice between living in a trailer park with a bunch of redneck hicks or living in the projects surrounded by a bunch of people wearing baggy pants constantly saying "F**k this f**k that" listening to music like "Ho this, dirty ho that, kill some cops blah blah blah".
You are "educated"? Congratulations! If you hate the way the rest of your "culture" is treated, go teach them to read a book, buy land, brush their teeth, and drink water (like the song says) instead of reading porn, drinking Malt, and trying to purchase the trappings of spinning rims, expensive jackets and shoes.
You know what really bites for you? People in this 21st century, with a few exceptions, are mostly judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. The reason so many have not advanced is because they have no character.
Marj, you really need to spend some time in the real world, get into the trenches and see first hand what police and fire deal with on a daily basis.
marj-3461288
If this had been a black cop who shot a white teen you would be DEFENDING THE COP...i'm sure you've heard the saying "never cry wolf"...when you pull the race card in situations where it's OBVIOUSLY not a race issue all you do is make people not wanna ever take it seriously when a TRUE instance of racism occurs...cause then people are like "oh just the blacks pulling the race card again"...you're actually doing your people an injustice right now...you and anyone else trying to turn this into a race issue
paganponderer
AMEN!!
They were NOT UNIFORMED OFFICERS. If you actually think a rational individual is going to stop what they are doing just because somebody tells them they are an undercover cop while pointing a gun at them you are crazy. This kid sure as hell was a criminal, but if I were in the same situation I would have shot at the "police" simply because I have no way of knowing they are really police officers. Great they might have identified themselves, doesn't matter they are dressed like thugs and pointing a gun at me. I should totally just believe they are telling the truth. And it's not like NYPD hasn't got the world's worst reputation for corrupt undercover NARCs. Just because they are cops doesn't mean they were in the right. Why did they try to stop the kid in the first place. Why did they pull a gun on him. If they shot him first wouldn't that mean they already had a gun pulled on the kid. None of this makes sense but instead the racists and the suburban sheep just see a perfect right a wrong situation. Some of you idiots didn't even read the part were the cops were undercover.
@Marj, let us know when you get over yourself, and your black, self-righteous indigation speech. My guess is, you and your ilk wouldn't be welcome in our back yards either.
robby76
AMEN!!!!
GM and hahahahha Scooter.
Marj - where did I mention race? I don't give a damn what color anyone is, but it's quite obvious by your post that you do - if the kid was white, black, yellow, orange, brown, green, purple with polka dots, I'd have made the same damn comment.
You obviously have some hang-up on race, good luck with getting over it.
Randy-2190191
I read the part where the cops were undercover...but criminals still know they are cops because of their car...it may be an unmarked car but you can still tell it's a cop car...and even if they couldn't tell from the car, i read in another article that they had already started talking to the group before he ran...PLUS he could have just kept running, he didn't HAVE to pull his gun on them...NEVER CRY WOLF...it is because of people like you automatically pulling the race card in situations where it's OBVIOUSLY not a race issue that all non-black people (and that includes all races besides black) have a hard time taking ANY claims of racism seriously...shame on you for defending this kid...he was OBVIOUSLY in the wrong
Randy - I didn't say anything about the police being in the right. My only comment was to a vigil.
None of us know what happened, let there be an investigation and determine that.
I just think a vigil was ridiculous - if I had a 16 year old that had been arrested twice, let alone 4 times, that kid should be more afraid of what would happen with me if there was a 3rd then the police. Are people ever out there marching against the hoodlums in their communities - no, they pretty much keep silent on that as per code.
If people want police to stop being aggressive in their community, the people need to take part in cleaning their community up.
I never once mentioned this kid was shot because he was black. Everybody else did.
With Obama "redistributing" the wealth from the whites to the blacks of course the drug trade & murder rate is going up in the inter-cities.
Marj, "Reading the comments on here makes me absolutely LOATHE white people." Apparently that education that, you say, keep you out of the trailer park, wasn't good enough to keep you from being a blind, ignorant, fool. Whether they use "white" or black, Hispanic, Latino, Asian, Mexican, Pakistany, Afghan, Jewish, Spanish, Italian, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, etc., etc., etc., it lets me know that the person uttering the statement is beyond any commonsense and reasoning. They don't realize that they have become the thing they think they are railing against.
oh and for record i HATE dirty cops...in my opinion they are worse then the criminals...and i will be the FIRST one to point out if there is something fishy or currupt going on...but that isn't the case here...it's just a kid who pulled a gun on a couple of cops and they defended themselves...end of story...i would LOVE to hear his parents explain why he was out running the streets with a gun in the first place instead of home grounded for life for being arrested 3 times in 5 months!
Marj - Why do your people loot so much?
Jasper....Nowhere does it say this kid was stopped and they were in an unmarked Impala or Crown Vic. That would mean they are plain clothes detectives. Undercover cops drive around in impounded vehicles. I know because like I said I know a cop who was undercover for 5 years. He drove a beat up POS that he had to maintain. Your logic is flawed. They will shoot in the back if you try to run and it's justified. They will shoot you for having a cell phone and it's justified. They will shoot you and plant a police special .38 or a "drop" gun to justify a bad shoot. No witness stated the kid was waiving a gun it is just assumed from the police report. The kid was a criminal and he likely would have ended up dead eventually, but that doesn't mean it was justified or he was totally at fault.
Marj maybe instead of bashing people trying to do their jobs you should be making speeches to the black community that it's ok to get an education and not join gangs, and you can provide for yourself. I'm glad you elevated yourself above all that crap. But also sounds like you're not helping the problem either. You have a large chip on your shoulder. What do you have a chip about the fact that taxpayers over the last 30 years have been providing for families of color with free housing/food/and trying to get them to go to college so we can wipe this out, how's that working out? Not well in most cases, kids don't want to be oreo's like it's a bad thing to take care of yourself. Again if you want to help speak out, not to the white community, we are already trying in a lot of cities to eradicate color violence and gangs, doesn't help when no one wants to give up that livestyle or people of color are afraid they'll be called names for getting an education and taking care of themselves.
Time to look at your own community and get rid of that chip.
Marj,
I am glad you are so well educated book learnin' is good, but maybe you should pull you head out of your lower extremities and get a breath of reality also. It appears that you are educated beyond your intelligence by your idiotic comments.
Marj, either point out the documented truths that are being ignored or crawl back under your rock, racist trash.
Because you know EXACTLY what color EVERY single person posting on this thread is right marj? If you don't like people voicing their opinions, then go away and stop reading them!
I have ridden the bus in the inner city of a large metropolitan area for the last 2 years. I have gone from trying to be open minded to thinking we should fill dump trucks full of guns take them to their neighborhoods and just let them all kill each other. I am not a redneck, I have a masters, speak two languages, make six figures, former peace corps and my kids are hispanic. Sorry but it is like the last time LA rioted, a white guy was quoted as saying "I don't riot but I do vote" The social programs for black has given them a sense of entitlement and destroyed their culture. This president, who I have voted for twice, is in the unique position to be able to say the truth without being called a racist, but instead he has wandered off into gun control. It just goes on and on.
16 YO with a gun no different than a 30 YO with a gun! Raise the gun to someone and you will be shot...PERIOD!!!
And this is why the bIack community is gang and drug infested...they protect these thugs and riot when one is arrested or shot!
Rally,
Unfortunately you are correct.
"A Facebook page called Justice for Kimani Gray has been set up". Let's see here, we've got a 16-year old gangbanger (see picture) with a .38 revolver, and we want "justice". It seems that "justice" has been served. If this 16-year old thug had killed one, or more police officers, would a Facebook page have been set up to insure that "justice" is served for the police officers? No, probably not. The police officers have a job, the police officers have families, etc.... They are not gangbangers. They are not thugs. No sympathy for them, but plenty for the punk gangbanger.
A .38 is a bit different than a pack of skittles... I don't think a police officer should have to declare anything if someone is drawing a gun. They just better be damn sure it is a gun, replica or not.
I have 0 tolerance for anyone using a gun to commit a crime, accedental or mistaken identity shooting suspects should face much harsher penalties than 1st degree murder IMO. Bringing a gun into a pubic area and discharging it should carry a penalty similar to 1st degree murder even if nobody is hit. Time to stop protecting the criminals and looking out for the people who make the country work.
Sounds to me this kid was going to get shot one way or another anyway, time to stop pretending he or anyone like him will be interested in changing. They want to impress their homies and the only way they do that is by inflicting misery on others.
You'd be a complete idiot to raise a "replica gun" to the police or anyone for that matter. You will be shot and rightfully so. A cop cannot wait to determine if it's real or not! If you think otherwise, you are an idiot!
The Police identified themselves and the punk started running. The punk turned and pointed a revolver at the Police and was shot. No warning was necessary, if you point a gun at ANYBODY you are going to die if that person is armed. This punk is why everyone should be able to carry a weapon and protect themselves from these animals. This is just another example that illustrates the sad fact that there is a segment of the population that refuses to take responsibility for the consequences for their actions and it is ALWAYS turned into a "racial incident". Next we will hear how the punk was kind to animals, went to church every Sunday, helped his Grandma cross the street, etc..
Undercover, plain clothes, thug looking cops pull guns on you and "possibly" identify themselves as police officers and you just take their word for it? They were not wearing uniforms so how do you know they aren't trying to rob you. Just last week my city had 2 men with badges and suits posing as "detectives" robbing people at gunpoint in downtown. Now since they shot the kid first that means they had to have already drawn on him for "looking suspicious" as the article states. Why would an under cover cop blow their cover just to play hero and stop a random suspicious person? I know a detective that was undercover for 5 years and he said that is one thing you don't ever do is blow your cover. The whole story stinks. I guess I'm the only human being under 30 that's seen Serpico. It sounds like a bad shoot they are trying to justify after the fact.
Randy-2190191
Have you ever seen how fast a cop is trained to draw their weapon? just because they shot him before he shot at them doesn't mean they already had their weapons drawn...ALSO the cops weren't undercover like you're thinking...the news shouldn't have used that wording...they were just in plain clothes...if this had been a black cop who shot a white kid you'd be singing the opposite tune and defending the cops actions I WOULD BET MY PAYCHECK ON IT...i am so tired of blacks trying to blame everyone but the criminal when something like this happens...get real dude...he was 16, been arrested 3 times in the last 5 months, and he PULLED A GUN ON A COP...he was not a "good kid"...you might as well take that race card you're pullin and rip it up on this one!
Why is there always a protest by these people when there is a criminal shot or arrested by police? Criminals are criminals, regardless of their color.
Because the dead criminals criminal buddies are forced to recruit ANOTHER criminal to join their criminal choir club. And that means work which is anathema to them.
The protest is simply an excuse to loot.
I totally agree with Steven-x-2009156! I am so tired of hearing about these punks... "Oh, he was a good boy, he wouldn't hurt anyone" Yea right! Just another gang-banger looking for trouble and he found it!
I know many African Americans that are educated and are upstanding citizens who make great contributions to the community and to their race. And you know what these gang banging hood rats call them... "Sell Outs" and why? because they actually made something of themselves.
Stop blaming everyone for your problems... Start giving a crap about your education, make the right choices, do the right thing!!! You are not slaves anymore!!!!! Get over it for God's sakes and move on. Can't find a job? go to school and learn something. All you gang banging hood rats want is something for nothing, God forbid you work for a living.. You all disgust me!
For all those African Americans that are doing something with their lives.. God Bless you! Don't let those degenerate, useless pieces of crap bring you down!!!
They need a excuse to pillage a new big screen and then have Sharpton tell everyone its the white mans fault.
Angry citizen-2460287
AMEN!!!!
I live in Chicago, we are use to Afro-Americans being killed by their own and the cops. Americans need to remember that its one less Afro-American to commit crimes, locked-up and we pay the taxes, or give him a job at the Post Office. Anyway you look at it, we lose if he lives.
Kevin
What a statement you make. I don't think this 16 year old deserves any sympathy but what you have said sounds like you wear a KKK robe.
By the sounds of it they all were them
Grandpa-2986035
I agree...in this situation there is NO issue of racism...but i'm not racist...and people like kevin make it hard for us to stand up against false claims of racism and not be called racist ourselves
I think the kid unfortunately did point the gun and brought about the situation but I don't know why you assume he represents the entire African Americn community. When a white guy commits robbery, does that make you guilty? No. If you want to stereotype there are millions of brilliant, hard-working and good looking black Americans you can cite, why don't you use them as your reference point? Just like there are lots of white losers and criminals. This kid being guilty (or not) says absolutely nothing about a group of people, they were his actions and his alone.
Stella-2893794
nobody is making this about race except the blacks! they think that just because he's black that's why they shot him haha...it CAN'T be because he ran from them and aimed a gun at them...nooooooo, it's because he's black...and why he's a "good boy" even though he's been arrested 3 times in the last 5 months...i don't even see how anyone can make these arguments with a straight face...it's rediculous!
Oh, and obama was heard saying, "If I had a son, he would be like Kimani Gray". "If Kimani Gray was my son, he could take his .38, and I could take my shotgun, and we could go on a father - son shooting trip together". "We might even go to Chicago and visit with my buddy William Ayers, who could teach little Kimani how to build a bomb".
This "Teenager" was already a felon for having a firearm on his person. In New York, only law enforcement are supposed to be armed. This was not like TV where you always have the time to tell the person pointing a gun at you by saying "We are NY police Officer's. please put your weapon down and step away from it". The time it takes to say this, the person holding the gun could fire all five shots from his revolver at ypu. Too bad for the kid. He had NO right to be illegally armed!
"Too bad for the kid."? I say good riddance. The streets are a little safer now!
So I'd be called a racist if I said "well, there's on less gang banger on the streets"..
OK... so I'll say.. "Well, there's on less gun on the streets"..
New York has some of the strictest gun control laws on the books, but yet again we have a 16 year old with a criminal record in possession of a gun. It seems all those extra new gun control laws are really making a difference there. Heads up all you wannabe thugs, flash your gun at the police and you can expect to be shot as this kid was.
he also had an illegal over sized soda
Ain't no such thang - da judge shot that law down.
Now, if he had a twinkie in his possession you might have a case.
Smart people don't raise a firearm at police officers. This kid received the justice he deserved.
The problem in these situations is we can not tell if it's the police or the thug is to blaim.
LilDebbie1 -- the person who raises a gun toward ANYONE is to blame for the loss of their life.
MAXXA -- when someone is pointing a weapon at you (replica or not) there is no time to make that distinction. When you point what "appears" to be a weapon at ANYONE, you can loose your life.
If these animals want to riot, they are safer rioting in their own neighborhood. They can destroy what is theirs because they will have to pay to replace what they destroyed. People are fed-up with these animals and if they go and try to destroy other neighborhoods, they risk being with their friend permanently.
Maybe you can't but almost everyone else on earth can. I'm tired of people who rationalize and enable criminal behavior. I wish there was a way to match you up with the criminals so the next time they want to rob or kill someone they pick you, their best friend, and leave innocent people alone.
Where is Bloomberg and his anti-gun rants now?
He should really do something about the 16 year olds with guns in NYC...
If Bloomberg cared about the children he would ban 16 year olds with guns...
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Blooming Idiot is too busy suing over the 16 oz sodas!!!
Mayor Bloomers lost the first round but vowed to use public money to appeal his case to a higher court. And he wonders why his budget is in the red.
16 is Bloomberg's magic number
These kids need better parents.
These kids need better parents, he was propably born to a 15 year ho and his daddy was a 28 year homie and was most likely was shot dead 15 years ago by one of his own.
wardg
And why do you think that is?
Loss of values. Black children bullied and called "white" if they can read. Dependence on government handouts in order to create a solid voter block.
You think these black people are trying to create a voting block if they can't read. Do you think there are any good black people in the world? Do you think there are any bad white people in the world? Do you think with better education there could be a lot more black and white people that are good in this world?
A four-time loser, black or white pointing a gun at cops probably won't have a successful lifestyle.
Grandpa... my father was a high school teacher... he tried his best but some just didn't want to learn. In fact, they runied it for others who did... Point is, you have a chance and a choice.. be wise about it.
I don't think Grandpa was actually giving an opinion...seems to me he was simply playing devils advocate because some people are posting racist comments...look this kid was a thug...doesn't matter whether he was black, white, brow, yellow, or purple...he was a thug, NOT a "good kid"...but nomatter what there is no call for racist comments...i'm sick of black people pulling the race card in situations like this just as much as everyone else but i'm not racist...if there is a TRUE instance of racism i will stand up against it too...this is not such an instance...but there is no call for using racial slurs or talking bad about ALL black people...i think that was the point Grandpa was trying to make........
One less person collecting entitlement.. See ya Homie D Clown..
Black Teen Killed.... Let's loot another Foot Locker!
Yes, lets protest injustice by ransacking and looting! Dude, you see a size ten extra wide? GMUS
or loot a pawn shop and get more guns.
(GM SP)
GM StonePipe and Scooter
It seems the perp brought a gun to a gun fight. However, he left his brains and thought process at home. Looking at the picture above, the gun looks like it had seen better days and is most likely a "stolen firearm".
Oh yeah, the mindset of "let's loot something" because we are angry at "X", that had nothing to do with the person being shot, does not make any sense. If they want to be angry and protest, then protest "why the 16 yo had a gun in the first place.
Good morning my Internet Brothers! I am back from the wind swept prairie.
So long buddy. It was nice not knowing you.
1 pull Old 6 shooter w 6 inch barrel
2 pants already half down fall rest of way
3 reaches for pants
4 @!$%# too late
5 Darwin was proven wrong once again, some species never evolve.
really how fast did"quick draw Kimani" think he was? a 6 inch revolver...hell im surprised his pants would stay up in the first place.
A known thief who pulls a gun on the police is shot & killed. Good job police. Then his gang banging homies raise hell & destroy property while rioting & looting. Sounds like the police should shoot a few more in that area.
Now this is what I call a gun buy back program!!!
I thought NY had gun laws? Well there goes that theory of more gun laws will get rid of guns in criminal hands.
No one asked him not to commit crimes. According to liberals that's all it takes.
16 years old and already arrested four times? Tell me that little black boy was not headed for the big time. It was at best suicide by cop. Didn't his momma tell him not to pull a gun on a cop. They'll cap your ass. Stupid kid, good shoot. Parents, if any, are responsible. He knew the law.
A 16 year old in possession of a hand gun. What does a 16 year old need a pistol for? Unless the cops, under cover or uniformed, approached him with guns drawn, the young man had no reason to even reach for a weapon. Sounds like a legit shoot. Punk kid with a gun and up to no good.
I'm waiting for Obama to tell everyone if He had a son He would be just like Kimani.
Why bring the president in on this, he has nothing to do with this. Travon Martin's case is another issue. I bet if you had a 16 year old son, who was out late, and you recieved word that he was shot and witnesses stated the cops did not identify themselves, and we all know some cops lie - some stupid ass code that they follow, you would certainly be angry. So don't jump to conclusions and stop involving the president on issues that have nothing to do with him.
I'm waiting for the NRA to tell everyone that Obama's daughters get better protection than anyone else.
Which of course they do and by armed guards. Lefties love to tell other people how to live, but would never live that way themselves.
@CC... Obama had nothing to do with Trayvon either.. yet he opened his mouth to divide once again.
well said, Back East, well said....
Left Lisa,
A good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun.
Love,
The NRA
CC - we all know witnesses lie too, especially since they were standing with the kid just moments before. Obviously they know him and are not about to side with cops no matter what the truth is. Common sense tells me the cops woud ID themselves, first because they're trained that way and second to protect themselves because in most scenarios it probably lessens their chances of being shot at. Any sympathy for him disappears when people use it as an excuse to loot, steal and damage property.
It's only a "protest" to MSNBC if the participants all black. Anyone else vandelizing, looting and beating innocent people would be considered a riot!
You are right! You gotta wonder when Al "Not So" Sharpton, and Jesse "Troublemaker" Jackson will be landing at La Guardia!! These two great leaders of the black race should be arriving soon.