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Cathal Mcnaughton / Reuters, file
Ireland's national flag flies above a statue in Dublin. It's flying in Florida, too, after a city council had a change of heart about letting an Irish pub display the colors.
The Irish flag is flying again at an Irish pub in Florida, where city officials suspended a ban on flying non-U.S. flags just in time for St. Patrick's Day celebrations on March 17.
The Atlantic Beach City Commission voted unanimously Monday night to suspend enforcement of the flag ordinance until a new version can be drafted and approved, acting mayor Maria Marks said.
"We were able to hang the Irish flag back up today," said Aine Culhane, one of four sisters who own Culhane's Irish Pub, south of Jacksonville. "The support has been tremendous."
The sisters said they had flown the green, white and orange Irish flag alongside the American flag in front of their pub for eight years and were shocked when code enforcement officers gave them a citation on Feb. 20. It said they had 24 hours to "cease display of flags other than American flag."
The obscure ordinance was passed in the 1990s as part of a previous administration's attempt to clean up an unsightly commercial area, according to Marks. The language was ambiguous, however, and the ordinance banned flags but carved out an exemption for the U.S. flag.
"There was never any intent to have any kind of prejudicial feeling against the Irish or anybody," she added.
The ordinance was little noticed until a Greek restaurant was cited for flying a Greek flag that partially blocked a sidewalk. The restaurateur complained that he had been singled out, and the Culhanes were told their Irish flag had to come down as well, the acting mayor said.
News reports about the incident reached all the way to Ireland, prompting a flurry of letters and emails, many of them accusing the city of bigotry.
"Some of it was really, really nasty," Marks noted.
City officials have proposed amending the ordinance to allow the flying of national flags, but the revision process requires a couple of readings and cannot be finished until April or May, she said. In the meantime, enforcement has been suspended.
"Everyone can fly their flag as long as it's not interfering with a right of way or creating a safety hazard," she said.
Related:
Ireland in uproar over call for 'drink-driving permits'
Flag fury ignites violence in Northern Ireland
Copyright 2013 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.
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We had a problem with Mexicans flying their flag OVER the American flag where I used to live. As long as they fly the Red, White, and Blue to code I don't see a problem.
Didn't realize you called the shots.
As despicable as that is, they do have the right to under the First Amendment.
Here in SoCal we had a bunch of illegals actually take down the American flag at a local high school and replace it with the Mexican flag on Cinco de Mayo. The limp wrist, politically correct school administration did absolutely nothing to discipline the students. Of course anyone who know anything about Cinco de Mayo knows that it is basically a made up holiday the is not even a holiday in Mexico - Not that this should have any bearing on what these illegals did. Other students were actually told by the school administration not to try and take down the Mexican flag and put the American flag back up because they were more afraid of the Mexican students getting violent than doing what was right. There was another case where a student wore a shirt to school with the American flag on it on Cinco de Mayo and was sent home to change because the school administration was afraid it would provoke violence from Mexican students. The politically correct liberals in this country are slowly surrendering our sovereignty to foreign special interest groups. If these illegals want to fly the Mexican flag, let them go back to Mexico. This is a huge problem in this country. We are bending over backwards to accommodate foreign cultures instead of expecting foreigners who move here to adapt to American culture. I do not care if an Irish pub wants to fly the Irish flag in addition to the American flag. I really do not care if people want to fly a different flag on their own property. I draw the line though at replacing the American flag with another or flying any flag higher than the American flag on public buildings.
I thought there was this thing called "Freedom Of Expression". You know, the 1st Amendment...
I'm not sure they can actually enforce anyone not to fly any kind of flag they want.
This is "America". The land that was created from every ethnic background in the world. "We Are The World".
What are they going to do? Arrest you for flying a flag that is not red white & blue?!
GM CD, DB, Stone Pipe and all of the Usual Suspects!
Atlantic Beach, Culhanes Irish Pub is about 4 miles from my home in Jacksonville (all towns in Duval County are incorporated into Jacksonville).
Anyway, we have been to Culhanes many times - the food is excellent and the beer even more so, especially the "Black & Tan"! If you ever are passing through JAX area, divert to the Beaches and enjoy a great Shepard Pie or Corned Beef and Cabbage meal - you won't be disappointed if you enjoy Irish fare! Did I mention beer? LOL
Interesting about "concerns" regarding the Irish flag, I was not aware.
Virgo,
educate yourself. the us govt long ago established a set of codes for flying the US flag. One of which states that no other flag can fly above the US Flag.
JS in SD is repeating an urban myth. Students from a rival school did this as an act of malice.
At commercial establishments flags are advertising, at other private places they're usually for antagonism. Flying the wrong flag in the wrong place can get you killed everywhere, including America.
JS in SD,
First of all, you're full of it. The story is a common "urban legend" look it up on snopes. Most people here aren't your extremist lunatic friends that will buy your load of garbage.
Secondly, even if it was true, why would you care? I am 100% positive that if the situation was Irish-Americans putting up the Irish flag on St Pattys day you would love it... after all, their skin is white like yours.
To everyone who says you can fly a flag how you like, I refer you to http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#173 this website is an online version of the official US Flag Code. It states, in part:
It must be noted that:
So, that just means there are no punishments for disobeying the US Flag Code, unless a local government has imposed them. Which this local government has.
I think I actually understand this ordinance and the whole thing seems a little off-color. In our small town, we have recently had someone move in that started selling flags, but not the international flags, the long wavy ones that often go on the side of the road advertising a sale or service.
The guy selling the flags proudly stated that he would like to see the entire street completely lined with these commercial flags for "Computer Repair" or "Clearance Sale".
Not exactly. The local government did NOT impose punishment for disobeying the US Flag Code. It forbade the display of any other flag. That is NOT part of the US Flag Code.
For those claiming the story I posted is an urban legend, you are all dead wrong. I live in SoCal and have first hand knowledge of the incident. Not everything you read on Snopes is reliable as they have a definite agenda on that site.
Sure you do JS is SD...sure you do buddy.
No problem;
Just some proud Irish Americans enjoying their heritage and celebrating St Patrick's Day.
Besides it's an Irish Pub; this is just marketing much like an Italian Restaurant displaying an Italian flag. No problem!
I agree....and I'm sure you feel the same way too if it were a flag from an Arab nation over a Middle Eastern establishment too, right?
No flag flying OVER the American flag is acceptable. However, we ARE in AMERICA, 31C. We have freedoms here, including the freedom of expression--that is, the right to fly other flags in conjunction with the American flag. As long as the U.S. flag is displayed first on the pole, there is no problem... except for those who are racist/prejudiced against other countries and peoples.
Once upon a time, when they came over here in droves due to the Potato Famine, the Irish were considered no better than dogs. When African-Americans were legal property as slaves, their treatment was even worse. Numerous prejudices have been thrown at Asian Americans; for example, the internment camps during World War II for Japanese Americans (funny, but there were none for German or Italian Americans!) and the Chinese Exclusion Act.
Our holier-than-thou prejudices against other countries--in a nation made up of immigrants--is astonishing sometimes.
Flying any flag over the US flag is perfectly legal. Though it may go against the official code, there are no penalties for violating said code.
Kenobi:
While you are correct that the US Flag Code makes no provisions for imposing penalties for going against the guidelines, it specifically says:
Which means, if a state or local government imposes a penalty for violating the Flag Code, it is an enforceable penalty.
Source: http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#173
otterman,
It would not be enforcable because it would be unconstitutional (freedom of expression).
(not that I agree people should but...)
I don't have a problem with it. Just like I occasionally eat in an Israeli restaurant and ... guess what ... an Israeli flag flies over it. I frequent a Scandinavian place of business that flies all FIVE of those flags in front. No problem at all.
They're flying the wrong flag. That's the flag of a divided Ireland. The true irish flag is all green with a harp in the center. The color orange symbolizes William of Orange, who treated Ireland like his own personal toilet.
Ulster is Irish as well as majority Protestant. The tricolor is an attempt at a modern Irish flag uniting ALL the people of Ireland, even if the Republic has had its low moments of kowtowing to the Catholic hierarchy. Wolfe Tone and Robert Emmett, the primary founders of what became the IRA, were both Protestants as well as Irish patriots. Don't divide Eire anymore than it has suffered already, Emily.
erin go braless
A bra-less Irish lass now that is something to display :)
How do you tell when an Irishmen is on the wagon? One's missing. GMUS
gm stonepipe
Ever had an Irish 7-course meal? That would be a 6-pack and a potato.
GM DB & SP
How do you tell it's an Irish Funeral/Wake? There's 1 less drunk!
Relax, I am Irish and Faith and Begorrah to all. If a person cannot laugh at himself, then he has no humor!
gm jack
Agreed. Sure as me name is O'Schwartz.
Top o' the morning to you Mr O'Schwartz!
Aye laddie and may you find Finnians Rainbow on a sunny day!
And the rest of the day to you, Sir.
Many don't realize one of the great instrument builders was located in southern Ca. Clapton and Hendrix played his guitars. His name was Lee O'Fender.
Good afternoon to all! Jack&Bill it is time I revealed my real name. Patty O'Furniture.
Top of the day to you too, Bill. In my younger days I could of passed as Irish, but I hardly ever wasted my money on potatoes!
Agreed. Most of the money I spent on potatoes was for the variety found in bottles of vodka.
No real Irishman would waste perfectly good drinking time to bake and eat a potato, actually most of the Irish kids I use to hang out with really didn't seem to eat at all, wake up and grab a bottle of whiskey. God they were good fun.
Of course the press would not have this amount of outrage if someone banned our own flag in America - that would be called protecting people's free speech rights or some such thing that fails to pass the laugh test.
That darn press, how dare they report the news.
Not true at all. Here in VA I can think of several cases of homeowner's associations trying to ban American flags, or saying they could only be flown in the backyard, etc. The cases got a lot of press, in one case the ACLU got involved and threatened to sue, and the associations backed off.
This is unconstitutional you can fly any effeng flag you want.
It's an emotional topic for me. If your an loyal American celebrating your heritage it's all good. We all came from someplace. If your intention is to live here for free like you're still in Bagdad, Puerto Rico or Tiajuana and fly a flag then I think it needs to come down......on fire.
It's all relative to the indoctrination you've received and how well such propaganda establishes itself in a gullible mind.
While one person might be "proud" of a waving bit of colored fabric on a stick, which to them represents an honorable series of ideals, in other parts of the world that same bit of cloth is nothing more than the physical manifestation of institutionalized terrorism.
In the end, its simply a bit of fabric on a stick and represents honesty, integrity or ideals no more than the collar of a Catholic priest idicates his suitability to watch over your children. Disguises work best on those who desperately wish to believe in them and only fools rush to defend abstracts as absolutes.
Nationalism - pride in the "achievement" of being born somewhere that is "better" than "that place over there".
So who is going to determine whether or not someone flying another country's flag is a "loyal American" or not?
This is crazy. Atlantic Beach is south east of Jacksonville. You blink and you miss it. If you go north to Amelia Island, Florida, on their main street they proudly display the flags on many countries, I believe it is six flags. Florida has been under many national flags throughout its history.
The United States of America's flag should be flown first. If you are proud of your heritage and wish to fly the flag of your country, then simple follow the flag code and fly the U.S. flag above all others on U.S. soil.
And if you don't want to fly an American flag, what?
Grandpa, then the flag wouldn't be flying OVER the American Flag. IIRC there's a house a mile from here that just has the state flag, don't recall ther being a US flag in the same yard.
AFAIK there's no mandate that you have an American flag up if you want to have a flag, it's just that people don't usually have other flags without the American flag.
I'm sure when the Nazi standard is raised in such a way as to not interfere with the right-of-way the city of Atlantic Beach and the local synagogues will fully support the legally protected display.
Nothing wrong with flying the flag of your forefathers with the American Flag.
It's when you fly it instead, the problems start.
Why?
ham,
If you chose a foreign flag over the American Flag, I suggest you move to that country.
Why?
I love America. I like living here. Especially because I have the right to fly any flag I want, whenever I want.
We all know that if Odumbo had his way on this, he would let a flag representing every country on earth fly in this country, probably with the US flag being underneath them on the flag pole. After all, promoting more illegal immigration for votes and entitlements is his ultimate agenda
We don't all know that, because we're not all RWNJs.
Perhaps if the right would stop trying to disenfranchise many thousands of legal voters over fewer than 10 illegally cast votes, we could have better restrictions.
Did that ban also include that stupid confederate flag that represents absolutely nothing?
The Confederate Battle flag represents the right of American citizens to their views of bigotry, slavery, hatred and systematic abuse by one ethnic, ploitical or religious group over another, in other words, all the highest ideals of Judaism, Christianty and Islam.
It is invariably flown by those who are proud of their heritage of such ignorance and it's display allows others to judge the character of those flying it with surprising accuracy. Usually, people will try to conceal their stupidity or ignorance, but when it comes to flags or other icons of belief, they will display them with pride.
^Yankee alert^
@Tiger, LOL. Yep, and a self-righteous one at that. Hope it stays north of the M-D line.
Paddy Englishman, Paddy Irishman and Paddy Scotsman all went to a hotel.
'Theres only one room left, and its on the top floor which is 90 floors up but the lift is broken so you'll have to take the stairs' said the secretary.
They took the room and went up the stairs.
When they got to the 30th floor Paddy Englishman told a really sad story!
A little while later when they got to the 60th floor Paddy Scotsman told an even sadder story!
And finally, when they reached the top floor, Paddy Irishman told the saddest stroy ever!... 'Ive left the keys on the front counter...'
Everyone is Irish on St. Patrick's Day. It's my favorite drunken holiday.
just like everyone is mexican on cinco de mayo and eventually, that will be true in this country one mexico is finished invading it and the smart folks like me GTF out of here.
Cinco de Mayo isn't a celebrated holiday in Mexico. Cinco de Mayo is a made up holiday by alcohol companies so Americans go out and drink.
Where are you planning to go tigermanialsu? Isn't it only the most reprehensible sort of coward that enjoys privilege when things are good but bails out when things get tough?
Besides, the native people of those other countries will look at you, and treat you with the same sort of ignorant hatred you're displaying here. And in your opinion, their behavior will be fully justified.
Mjolnir, you are on a roll today. I think tigermanialsu's head might have just exploded with that Jedi mind trick you just used.
i wont tell you where i am going when i do go, but where ever i go, it will be to help a country in need that has an open minded government, not an ape dictator.....
you my friend, can go to H$ll
@mom, cinco de mayo is celebrated in certain regions of mexico, however, they call it something else.
@Kenobi, i think what exploded in probably in your pants
I have some stupid friends that went to Cancun the beginning of May so they could be there for Cinco de Mayo.... Imagine their surprise when no one knew what the heck they were talking about. Ha ha ha.
LOL, I hope they werent looking for a refund because they are not celebrating it in Cancun for sure. I think it is only in the Mexican state of Puebla where they celebrate it.
Obi-wan, I'm sure you know that the Jedi mind trick only works on those with something to work upon. Most times when I attempt it's use (such as today), the Force simply radiates through empty space.
I offer the following as proof of the vacuum I describe; despite a vigourous attack on such dearly held ideals of misplaced nationalism and the herding instinct common within those of limited intellect, the most scathing response that could be offered was a simpering "^yankee alert^" from an obviously dysfunctional Gammorean. This is primarily due to the fact that in some parts of the country, those with an education or a desire to expand their perspectives beyond the boundries of a trailer park are classified as "yankees", and this is supposed to represent some sort of insult.
Where does the salad fork go? To often a table is set and the salad fork is out of place. There needs to be a law! People need to go to jail.
people honestly have nothing better to do?
As long as the flag that is being flown is not positioned or displayed ABOVE the Red, White and Blue then displaying or flying a non-American Flag is legal.
Even the Boy Scouts will tell you this is true.
It is legal to fly any flag you want, any way you want. Welcome to America.
If it had been the mexican or honduran or blah, blah, blah hispanic flag we would have the ACLU and every other whiner filing suit and rioting in a heartbeat. No matter whether it was over, under or through Old Glory.
Get a grip. It might help if you get back on your meds.
Why is everyone blaming the liberals?
Are they in charge of the alcoholics who are too stupid to realize that they have a problem and herd theirselves to the local pub to celebrate a fake holiday?
That is called capitilism. Creating something false just to turn a profit.
liberals are the root of evil in america......eff em all!!!
A day of celebration for the Irish Americans, ooops sorry I didn't put American before the Irish. My bad.
Stick the flag in a gun barrel and then the kooks won't complain. Irish immigrants have contributed to every aspect of American culture and commerce. Can't speak for all of them, but hard work and dedication seem to be the admirable traits, not the English version of Paddys and other stereotypes of poor that were denied equal rights under British rule.
Florida needs to get its own house in order on so many fronts, The celebration of Irish heritage must not sit well with the corrupt class, they just removed a Lt. Governor for corruption this week.
Jim,My Forefathers thank you for acknowledging their contributions to this country.Our Irish roots have been diluted but we are still contributing.Not a welfare recipient in the lot and proud of it.We are and will continue to be Americans first and foremost.
Good choice by the city to back down enforcement,but its likely the flag would have flown anyway in true Irish spirit.
Exactly, Road. Only difference is, had the city not backed down, the flagpole may have been sticking out of someone's arse to display the colors. ;)
The USA flag is always supposed to fly higher than any other. Here in AZ we have Mexican flags all over the place. Doesn't bother me unless it is higher than US flag or when the illegals walk down the streets protesting immigration laws and carrying that rag Mexican flag. If you are fleeing a country and entering another illegally under the guise of coming here for a better life - why would you want to fly the Mexican flag? You are asking for citizenship here yet you waive a Mexican flag makes me question your allegiance and if you are coming here for a better life or to simply rob and pilfer our welfare system - the latter is usually the case.
Patrick,Well spoken comments and I am in agreement with you on this one.
"The obscure ordinance was passed in the 1990s as part of a previous administration's attempt to clean up an unsightly commercial area."
National flags make for an "unsightly commercial area"...? Sounds more like they were trying to make the area so sterile that no one would even know it's there. America was built by immigrants, and the country has never made any attempt (like a lot of countries do) to force those immigrants to give up their ties to their homelands and ancestors. We're a mongrel lot, but that's given us "hybrid vigor," as the geneticists say. There's something special about a country that's in as bad shape as ours is, economically, that people from other countries are STILL standing in line to get IN.