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Subscribe to RSSKurt R. Myers, who is believed to be responsible for the shootings at John's Barber Shop in Mohawk, is still at large. NBC's Brian Williams reports.
Police in upstate New York early Thursday remained in a tense standoff with a man suspected of killing four people and injuring two more, according to authorities.
New York State Police believe Kurt R. Myers, 64, is holed-up in an abandoned building in Herkimer, N.Y., after going on a shooting spree at a local car wash and barber shop.
The Utica, N.Y., Observer-Dispatch reported that loud bangs, alarms and a PA system were heard about 1:30 a.m. ET on Thursday at the site where Myers is believed to have barricaded himself.
The newspaper said a police robot had been sent into the building and that tactical units could been seen going in and out of the former bar. Floodlights remained pointed at the former bar, and police could be heard on a PA system asking for a peaceful surrender, the paper said. NBC News could not immediately confirm the report.
Troopers exchanged gunfire with the suspect when they first arrived at the scene of the now-abandoned sports bar, superintendent of New York State Police Jospeh D’Amico told reporters at a press conference Wednesday evening.
No officers were hurt, but police have so far had no success in communicating with Myers.
NY State Police
Police believe Kurt R. Myers, 64, shot four people on Wednesday.
Authorities believe that before his rampage, Myers set his residence on fire in Mohawk, N.Y., a small town between that lies roughly halfway between Syracuse and Albany.
From there, Myers is believed to have gone to John’s Barber Shop at about 9:30 a.m. ET, and shot four people, killing two of them, cops said.
"Totally unprovoked, we believe he fired a number of rounds from the shotgun," D'Amico said.
He then allegedly went to Gaffney’s Car Wash in the neighboring town of Herkimer and killed two more people before driving off to the abandoned bar where police believe he currently is in hiding.
“This is truly an inexplicable situation. There was no apparent rationale motive to the best of our knowledge at this time to provoke these attacks,” New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said at the press conference.
State Police identified the victims who died in the barber shop shooting as Harry Montgomery, 68, of Mohawk, and Michael Ransear, 57, of Herkimer. Killed at the car wash were Thomas Stefka, an employee in his 60s, and Michael Renshaw, a man State Police said was in his 40s and is a 20-year-veteran of the Department of Corrections.
Myers only other known criminal history was a 1973 arrest for driving while intoxicated. A number of guns and ammunition were found in his residence, according to Cuomo.
The areas around the standoff have been evacuated, and D’Amico said police are prepared to be hunkered down for the long hall.
James Baron, Mohawk's 29-year-old mayor, said he doesn't know Myers but knew several of the people who were shot, including "at least" two of the barber shop victims.
The mayor described his town of 2,700 people as close-knit and friendly, "the kind of place where you'd say, 'Oh, it would never happen here.'"
Cuomo echoed those sentiments in front of reporters, noting, “This is just another example that there is no community that is beyond the scope of senseless gun violence, and unfortunately we see this more and more and more.”
Michele Mlinar, a bartender in Herkimer, told the Observer-Dispatch that Myers was a regular at The Cangees Bar and Grill where she works.
"When I saw his picture, I just got sick to my stomach,” she told the paper, adding that Myers was nice to staff but always “very jittery and nervous.”
“It could have been here. It could have been us,” she said.
NBC News' John Newland contributed to this report.
AP Photo/Mike Groll
Law enforcement officers walk along Main Street in Herkimer, N.Y., while searching for a suspect in two shootings that killed four and injured at least two on Wednesday.
This story was originally published on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:21 AM EDT
Leave a Comment:
Muslims must have done it ? Quran must have taught them to do this hateful thing ? Their leader Muhammad must have made them do this heinous crime.
I pray for the souls lost to this grizzly crime .....
That is ridiculous Milton!!! Anyone could have done this man i really hope people like you who just spout off such preposterous allegations with out mind you knowing facts of this case learn your lesson one day for being not only incoherent of the situation but insensitive to other peoples ethnic background. I hope you all learn a lesson about judging others, shame on you man for spreading the hate. I do believe in Jesus myself and have no problem with others different views whatever the religion might be that is a totally incorrect statement you have made. now you go rethink your clothing! And try not to be so inconsiderate of the human race!!!
The shooter drove a Jeep, that Milt means NRA redneck! So someone tell me again what else guns are good for? I mean other than killing...
Terri-2006096
"So someone tell me again what else guns are good for? I mean other than killing..."
Target practice? Competition? Self Defense?
All the same reason I own guns.
I understand why you're upset... The gun did it, right?
You figured that out from the few lines printed? What an idiot.
Hey Milt - where are you getting that? I'm surprised you didn't drag Obama into your inane contribution as well.
No, a Jeep means a white trailer-trash liberal Democrat who can't afford a Range Rover. Where have you been? What you should be questioning you boneheaded stupid retarded fool is how this could have happened in a STATE WITH THE MOST RESTRICTIVE GUN LAWS IN THE NATION? Answer that you little pencil-necked coward. Cat got your tongue? Colorado (twice), New Jersey, New York, all LIBERAL BLUEST STATES. C'mon what do you have to say to that? How could this possibly happen?
Only blacks and Latinos utilize the services of a Barber Terri, so if we are going to be retarded why not add in some flagrant racism.
Terri, by all means, let's prohibit everyone from having a gun to solve the problem. Then, the only one's who will have guns are the military, police, and CRIMINALS! This is what you want?
Yes in a perfect world (or the blockbuster MINORITY REPORT w/ Tom Cruise) you can prevent crimes like this and actually prevent/punish the perp........ but what is easier for our society to accomplish: Regulate the people or regulate the guns?
You can't fix crazy, but you can fix the access to guns - and more importantly..... what kind of guns are available.
This is probably the work of a NRA GunNut !!!
How could this possibly happen in New York? I mean they have such strict gun control laws. That should have kept the people safe. The writer must have been confused. This shooting probably really happened in Utah or Wyoming. You know some place where gun laws are lenient and therefore easy to get.
milt is pulling your chain. wake up and realize just exactly where you are. 99% of comments here are rediculos self opininated dribble . once in a while there is some insight but all you milt raggers missed the boat there. one more time milt wants you to react in horror at his statement and he got his wish.
Myron - you are a racist fool. Sad!
La Grenouille - Of course the gun did it!
What's the likelihood all these people would be dead and injured if the perp did NOT use a gun?
Hey Scalzo read throwdowns post. That's where I got it from dumbf*ck. More questions. No La Gren, it was a NRA gun-nut with a gun that killed. And what's the real purpose for target practice, ...yeah I thought so, STFU!
Milt is a foreign interloper with an agenda to divide and disarm America. He's using sarcasm to get your goat!
Happy trolling Muhammad guy!
Why not wait for some details? Maybe it was a CIA whack job? It could be anything at this point.
It's all the Jeeps fault, ban Jeeps...................
Hey Crash no trailer trash is GOP. These are the idiots you elitist try and include in your party to make them feel welcomed, so they vote with you, and then you guys throw them under the bus by taking their welfare, good try dumbass
Take it easy guys Milton is obviously one of the demented trolls that simply is seeking to get a rise out of you. What a sad sad human being he is...
More ammunition for Obama to advance his agenda of removing our 2nd amendment rights. A speech and photo op is forthcoming. You KNOW that an automatic assault weapon was used containing a large capacity clip.
This is what happens when you take away someone's 52oz Super Slurpee!
See, this is why I have long hair and a dirty car.
Say, here's an idea.
Why don't we find out how the shooter got the gun, whether his possession of the gun was lawful and whether he had a criminal record of violence, before we start spouting gunaphobic paranoia for more gun control?
You can't make something illegal if it is already illegal.
Just because people get together and agree that things should be a certain way (which is how laws are drafted) doesn't mean that it will happen that way. I swear, the liberal mind seems to think that words on paper will correct a violence problem that exists independently of offical words.
So everyone who drives a Jeep is trailer trash- what a trashy comment tomake, eh?
Only blacks and Latinos utilize the services of a Barber Terri, so if we are going to be retarded why not add in some flagrant racism.
I think Dano has already answered all that for us inMYday.
@ed burke - of someone wants to hurt someone they will find a way, if guns was not even around they would be using something else to get it done which could be A LOT WORSE.... Think of explosives, so be happy that we have a gun problem and not explosive problems like some other countries are having.
Guns are good for defending my family and myself from criminals who drive around shooting people and starting fires.
Terri - "So someone tell me again what else guns are good for? "
To protect yourself against the criminals that will use them against you.
Police are on the look-out for a deranged gun roaming the area!
NYC has about 300 a murders a year now. With 8 million permanent residents, around 2 million illegal aliens, 10's of thousands of tourists a day, I'd say that's a pretty low per capital murder rate and they're not all gun related. So I'm all for strict gun control in cities where it's crowded and guns would make things worse. Outside the city, have all the guns you can fit in your home.
I swear MSNBC loves it when their stories turn into huge gun debates....honestly, pretty much the only reason I ever read them anymore is to see what the "anti gun" yuppies have to complain about and to see them use their retarded "IF THE CARWASH HAD A GUN THIS WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED" type comments. Yup...cause the gun drove the jeep and killed these people....man..where can I get a gun that does all that?
More info from another site: The suspect reportedly used a long gun for the shootings. He had not been apprehended as of 10:45 a.m.
Reports indicate the suspect lived in that building; police were seen taking about half a dozen long guns from the residence shortly before 11 a.m. but would not confirm if they belonged to the suspect. Reports indicate police are searching for a 50- to 60-year-old slender white male, about 5-foot-11, with white hair and a white beard, last seen wearing a flannel shirt
Now what?
Hey Terri! Sounds like you could use a drink! OR, stop drinking! I don't know. You sound like you're wound tighter than a two dollar watch. And I love how you all ready have this story all manufactured to your liking. I'll bet you come out looking like a big 'ole dope when it all plays out. NRA...Puuullleeeez!
lets see i drive a jeep, i own a house not a trailer. i am also a 20 year veteran of the US air force. i dont think that makes me trailer trash.
now to get on subject, we dont really have enough on this story to make any real comments yet. we dont know if this person had a record. we dont know what was behind the shootings. we dont even know if it was a legally owned gun. until we find these things out any discussion on the subject is pretty much moot.
Tea Party Downgrade
You can't fix crazy, but you can fix the access to guns - and more importantly..... what kind of guns are available
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there is no way you can fix access to guns: there are hundreds of millions of guns in the world, humans have been manufacturing them for nearly a millennia, and if the government banned all guns in the US there is a sea of them already in circulation...... an illegal arms trade would flourish just like the drug trade
they haven't said yet, but statistically there is at least a 98% chance this was done with a regular handgun, so your point is completely invalid about types of guns
and while we have attempted federal bans and strict regulations in some states to complete failure... we have never had a serious mental health system in this country... so we don't know if we can fix crazy....
this has always been about background checks and mental health
Nope, it is about the guns as well. Continued blindness will lead to a citizens arms race. What is coming next is not something your gun will make you ready for.
Did somebody actually type that the killer (who is unknown) owned a Jeep so they must have been an NRA redneck? That was a bad joke right? My neighbor a couple houses down bought their daughter a little Jeep for her birthday. Almost completely certain she is not a redneck, and more than likely hasn't a clue what the NRA is. Wow, thats how people think... scary if not a joke.
Hey, how come each gang and crime killing in Chicago, LA, Detroit, D.C..... are not reported on the front page of the media? I am certain all those guns in those killings were registered and that the appropriate background checks were done. Do poor gang members killing everyone not get our sympathy and attention also? Are NBC and the rest of the media guilty of a bit of objective racism here? Uh oh.
Eric, It's just Teri spouting off all kinds of stereo-types just like an ignoramus does. And she sure can swear like a drunken sailor. And yes, I said she. I mean, Teri with an "i" at the end is not a dude's name, just a mean, bitter, potty mouthed spinster.
By the way Eric1964, thank you for your service!
I feel sorry for the people that got shot, but I like to get one thing straight that is not upstate NY that is central NY. Upstate NY is Malone, Massena, Lake Placid Etec. Those are places close to the Canadian Border and also the top of NY. Everybody in NYC thinks anything 20 miles north is northern. B.S. I'm from up there and I get tired of Albany and Syracuse being called upstate.
We need armed guards at all barber shops and car washes. Take them from the schools, if necessary.
Please oh wise and merciless Oz, what does your crystal ball tell you about what is going to happen? You seriously need to re-tune your tin foil.
If they'd all been packing heat, there wouldn't be so many dead. Doncha know carrying a gun makes you invincible? Duh!
to all the people who think you can take away my constitutional rights... as you know, gun and ammo prices have risen lately and inventory is selling like never before. so i'm going out to buy several new guns for my collection today, and all the ammo they have in stock. i may even make a donation to the NRA. you people really are the best thing that could have EVER happened to gun makers. good job.
now, sit there and cry about it.
HA freakin HA!!!
have a nice day :-)
No tin foil needed. If you can not see whats coming when everyone is armed, then you simply can not be told.
You think that the want for bigger and better stops at computers, cars and vacations? Think again. It happens with weapons as well and I have lived in areas where that mentality is out of control.
Also, everyone makes mention of laws hurting the good guys more then bad guys.. Well, if good guys with guns are the majority and the anti gun control people are correct, then why is it that these minority bad guys even have a chance at killing people? Where are all the good guys with guns to help save the day?
Nothing is ever as simple as what it appears to be. Not for the carriers of weapons, not for the control of weapons and certainly not for the willingness of people to stop escalating the power of the weapons they carry.
Must suck to be a gun nut- all that insecurity, fear, hate, ignorance.
Guess I underestimated the effect of having a small c*ck does to white men. Fortunately I don;t need an "extension" to feel like a man.
As long as your constitutional right to carry a weapon dose not come in conflict with my constitutional right to life, I would never waste my time crying about you spending money on weapons.lol
Crasher , Thanks but my 2012 Jeep is a $45,000 vehicle and sits quite nicely in front of my also very nice home.
JXC...you DO know that women carry guns too right???
To say a "gun" is at fault for this, is like saying "it's the pencils" fault for spelling the word wrong! Without a STUPID HUMAN behind it, it would just lay there...DUH!
Some of you people are so stupid, you couldn't pour water out of a boot with the instructions printed on the heel! I mean you couldn't throw a rock at the ground and hit it! IT'S NOT THE GUNS FAULT! IT'S A COLD PIECE OF STEEL THAT CAN ONLY BE ACTIVATED BY A PERSON!
Besides, this can't happen in NY, because there are LAWS that say you can't do this! Hummm, must of been a criminal?
To leo new, glad you are enjoying paying more for the guns and ammo! The manufacturers and retailers thank you, also the goverment since these companies are making more money and will pay more in taxes... After all the cost to make these items are the same, so higher profits for everyone but you !!!! And think of the sales tax to the states, just a win win.... Good luck buying all the ammo most places I know are limiting the amount. So keep going back and spend more gas and there more dollars to everyone!!
JXC, there's a chick named Terri2006096 I'd like to introduce you to. You two would make a dynamite couple. *rolls eyes*
How do you activate what you don't have?
Saying that guns do not play a roll in the murders they are used for is willful blindness.
Can somebody PLEEEEEASE tell me where I can get a gun that has the capability of loading itself, walking, driving, and pulling it's own trigger!!! I would love to add one like that to my collection!
Along the same lines. Can someone please tell me how a person could load a gun walk with it, drive with it and pull it's trigger when they simply could not get a gun in the first place.
And gun control is a misnomer. Gun control is really about controlling people's access.
Witness said it was a Jeep with an NRA bumper sticker on it, this is getting out of hand !!!
Just right wing nutjobs in an argument at a barber shop. Could have been fists but everyone had guns so why not?
Every time you see a headline like this it usually involves a location with stricter gun control is in effect. Maybe we need less gun control. I really don't know but the facts are there.
@seaskip-It passed out of hand about 5 miles back.
Maybe the gun had a hair trigger and didn't like the barber cutting it selfdefence?
QE137
Well good question!! There's estimated to be 314 million firearms in the United States (not including weapons on military bases), I'm sure one can manage. Do you really think that putting a ban on them is going to make them impossible to get? Harder to get legally...eh...sure....but why do it legally when anyone can purchase one from some backstreet thug that doesn't care about background checks.
La_Grenouille
NO dumb&ss! The person who owned the gun did it...so lets put more guns into the hands of more people...because that will save lives! Typical NRA/Teabagger idiot!
Had to be a white person, no baby's shot, will confirm once we hear if their were no stray bullets. From the latest shootings we know blacks can not aim worth a crap.
One more thing you peckerwoods...having a gun does not have a damn thing to do with insecurity, fear, size? or whatever! It has everything to do with stopping a crazy lunitic from doing harm to me and/or mine!
So... let's say this nation does away with all guns (because they are so bad), then the criminals start using swords, so we do away with them (because they are so bad), then the criminals start using knives, so we do away with them (because thay too are so bad), then the criminals start using clubs, so we do away with them (because again they are so bad). Now, let's say a bunch of mad men attack the nation...OH NO! we have no weapons, presidents screams "Talk to em" Talk to EM"...yeah, right!
Gary - you have to remember MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, are ALL major urbanites, having no real concept of New York State, the same as the rest of the country. Most of this country doesn't even realize there is a REAL New York that has very little to do with that sink hole the rest of the state supports, all 300 miles north to 300 miles west. As you said, there are many major, and minor, cities north of that rat infested flea trap called the Big Apple. (Couldn't even get a fresh apple there, but in the TRUE upstate, there are all kinds of apple orchards, as well as other fruit farms.
But, to get back to the real purpose of this article, the only facts in the article are where it happened, in two small towns colocated in the middle of the state of New York, four people were dead, others wounded, and police were searching for the suspect that may have committed this crime.
Nowhere does it mention who the suspect is, what weapon was used, (other than some type of gun, not WHAT type,) what the motive was for the killings and woundings, or any other facts. Were the weapon(s) even legally owned? I don't know, and neither does the author of this article. There are too many unanswered questions to even begin making suppositions on this story, especially if one already has a personal agenda, because of their particular upbringing.
And then, to start slinging insults to add to injury is ridiculous, childish, and just plain stupid, especially with such a "hot button issue" as the foolishness of politicians and gun control. (Sometimes, we can get very hot under the collar about a particular subject. It is then time to actually sit down and THINK seriously about what point one intends to make.)
Screw gun control... get caught committing any crime with a gun... life with no parole at the minimum. Watch the shooting rates drop like hotcakes.
QE137
Nope, it is about the guns as well. Continued blindness will lead to a citizens arms race. What is coming next is not something your gun will make you ready for.
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the guns themselves are an uncontrollable variable.... there are so many of them, owned by so many people, all over the world, that they are readily available regardless of the gun laws in any specific country...
convicts all over the world consistently say that gun regulation was no factor in their decision to obtain guns and use them.
The shocking continued blindness in the US is the illusion that continuing to expand legislation as a kneejerk response to social problems will have the desired outcome. All it does is fill prisons.
The US is great at increasing prison industry profitability and not so great at improving our society
Look at those pretty "assault" rifles the law enforcement officers are carrying around!
crasher999
Rural upstate New York areas are actually very conservative. Gun laws in the state proper are not nearly as restrictive as the gun laws in NYC. Look at the voting demograpics of NY counties and you will see that your comment is utter nonsense. There are other states with much more restrictive gun laws.
All you folks out there running on empty assumption.... anyone really know what happened, how it happened, or why it happened? Suppose not, but you all love your assumptive opinions.
seaskip - oh nooooooo, you better go crawl back under your blankies fradie cat. There coming to get you...............
Man with guns goes nuts again......So what?..........Nothing to see here, move along........don't even try to figure-out responsible answers to a problem that is all too common.........as continuing profits are far more important than people's lives are.......let alone our right to feel safe, allegedly.....
It's too bad that we don't ban guns altogether. Because then there's no way this madman could have gotten his hands on a gun to commit this act. Yeah right...
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars!
And New York has One of the toughest AntiGun laws in the Country. It would appear this alleged shooter/killer is a NutJob. For You AntiGun People: YES, You are Right about: "Well if the gun wasn't there, this guy could NOT have shot people to death"...CORRECT. AND for the Gun Supporters: "Look, the gun CANNOT activate itself; this NutJob picked it up and used it on innocent victims; We Responsible gun owners do NOT do such horrendous things"..CORRECT. BUT God Damn It, No One, NO ONE, has said: "When America FINALLY has An American Universal HealthCare System with Psychiatric OutReach Teams with examine and retain authority and OUR Federal and State Mental Hospitals are Finally ReOpened, Instead of SuperProfit for Big Pharma and the Insurance Companies, MANY, MANY of these NutJobs will be found And Committed so they Cannot harm innocent people". Fewer NutJobs, fewer shootings, stabbings, clubbings, burnings, truck chain draggings, Blunt or sharp object murders. This is a difficult time for Many "Mentally Balanced" Americans, Let Alone the NutJobs. Now let's wait for the Facts of what Really happened and please Put Down Your Blamethrowers.
So a few Muslims get into a couple of planes and cause 9/11, then we start blaming all the Muslims for terrorism.
Some gangbangers do a few drivebys in the inner cities and we label all blacks as degenerate thugs and the cause of all violent crime and strife.
A number of Latinos immigrate across our border, both legally and illegally, looking for work and we label the lot a bunch of freeloaders and welfare drains and dismiss them all as taking our country from us.
Then many white guys buy their own mini arsenals and start shooting up schools, temples, movie theatres, malls, colleges, workplaces, shooting ranges, churches, etc. (not to mention blowing up a federal building, sending bombs in the mail, places an IED at a MLK parade site, shoot up non-white talk show hosts and various other "enemies of the race") and they're all isolated incidences or a select few crazy people.
Seems like we need to add a new group of people to our list of folks to keep an eye on. Like George Zimmerman once said, those guys always seem to get away with stuff no one else does.
terri....so in your liberal fantasy world people who drive jeeps are redneck, gun toting, killers?...what a POS you are.
Milton is an idiot and I think he had something to do with it!! Come on Milt, admit it man, your the WHITE REDNECK NRA LOVING MURDERER!
QE137
As long as your constitutional right to carry a weapon dose not come in conflict with my constitutional right to life, I would never waste my time crying about you spending money on weapons.lol
i very much respect your right to life, assuming you never break into my home or attempt to rob me at a red light we should be good to go my friend... i wish you and yours a long and happy life.
FL Electra
To leo new, glad you are enjoying paying more for the guns and ammo! The manufacturers and retailers thank you, also the goverment since these companies are making more money and will pay more in taxes... After all the cost to make these items are the same, so higher profits for everyone but you !!!! And think of the sales tax to the states, just a win win.... Good luck buying all the ammo most places I know are limiting the amount. So keep going back and spend more gas and there more dollars to everyone!!
WAH WAH WAH... that's some high quality crying. i think i can afford the gas.
the second amendment is in place to protect all of us against criminals and/or overreaching governments and their supporters (that would be you) the fact remains, i could easily defend my family from several dozen of you. you couldn't protect yours from a pissed off snoodle...
several years ago and not too far from here, three seniors were sitting at a picnic table talking when a guy came up and demanded everything they had... all three of them shot him. he got what he asked for, he got everything they had.
i got a great deal on a sweat new 12 gauge pump and a box of 100 shells by the way. so, as they say... neener, neener.
NY gun laws are obviously working, they left the public helpless and defenseless... working as intended.
leo new
now THAT'S some funny sh*t right there!!! Congrats on the new 12 gauge. =)
On average guns killed 88 Americans and injured 202 each day during 2011 (N Engl J Med
2013:368:397-399). When available, it is estimated that firearm homicides and suicides in 2012 will exceed motor vehicle fatalities. With less than 5 percent of the world’s population, we now own 40 percent of all firearms in civilian hands. (N Engl J Med 2013:368:397-399) Are they WELL REGULATED as prescribed by the Second Amendment? Obviously not. Gun owners are statistically, significantly more likely to commit murder and to eventually commit suicide (Univ Penn LDI Issue Brief 2003;8(8), 1-4). If guns cause more human damage than automobiles then funds of equivalent amounts should be devoted to registration of each weapon, licensure on one’s birthday, a psychological screening test (MMPI), a practical operation test, and a written test of the weapons laws. Prior behavior predicts the likelihood of committing gun violence. Federal law prohibits felons and those convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence from possession of a firearm, but it allows those convicted of assault and battery, brandishing a weapon, and those making open threats of violence (New York Times, 2/24/2013). That must be corrected. Federal law prohibits purchase by an abuser of controlled substances but allows alcohol abusers to purchase guns. That must be corrected.
and FYI gun haters...you don't have to be a "redneck" to love the NRA....just so you know my neck is brown. And I love the NRA....just sayin. ;)
noone even mentions the military "look" of these cops? is this what we have to look forward to? conditioning the public to accept this? we are in deep chit mang,it will only get worse. they will not be happy with new laws,when the shooting continues(and it most definately will) they will cry for MORE restrictions. Anyone supporting these "new laws" i feel sorry for you,you are most definately afraid of shadows,but the shadow you should really fear is this goverment,not your fellow americans, who happen to enjoy their freedoms,keep pushing for laws and ignoring the fact that life cannot ever be free of troubles.there is no "epidemic" of killings by guns in this country,do some research. there is a broad abuse of our freedoms going on,do you really want to give up more? we have to vote out those without OUR interests in mind and replace them with people with MORALS,representing their constituants,not big money(both dems and repubs are bought by big money,noone can deny that FACT)
most of you posting are potential criminal in the waiting and should be dealt with, right? thats what some of you are implying with gun restrictions.
most of you have the resources needed at-hand -in your residence right now, to build multiple weapons that could kill thousands. you could make as many of these weapons as you could afford and there is nothing illegal about purchase any of the components. what should we do about the danger you pose? it would not take much to make a simple chemical weapon and disperse it into a mall or what have you resulting in mass causalities, simple chemistry and basic cleaning solutions and literally scores dead but hey look over here at these big bad guns, lets blame that inanimate object for all our woes.
guns are just an excuse
I love it when the anti-gun yuppies use the term "teabaggers"...I mean...really....I would rather be the "teabagger"...then the "teabagged". Am I right?
I wonder how many abortions were arranged at planned parenthood on German st in Herkimer?
FL Electra
Crasher , Thanks but my 2012 Jeep is a $45,000 vehicle and sits quite nicely in front of my also very nice home.
that plus the fact that you are unarmed and completely defenseless makes you exactly what the criminals are looking for. kind of like winning the lotto and a trifecta in the same day.
does that godzilla sized target on your chest not bother you at all?
just guessing here, based on your name only. you are a female in the crime free state of florida. if so... good lord girl, run now!!! don't stop until you get a gun in your hands. i assure you there are hundreds of lowlives within a few miles who would simply love to rob, rape and murder you just get their hands on stuff that you and i would consider "keepsakes" or "just old junk".
your life IS the only thing that you have, that pretty house and nice car are NOT yours. refuse to pay taxes on them and you will find out very quickly that the government owns them.
i sincerely hope that nothing bad ever happens to you. but if it does, hopefully one of your NRA nut job, gun packing neighbors can come to your rescue. then the two of you can chat for a couple hours till the cops get there. times being what they are, the cops will be way too busy harassing someone for smoking a joint to bother with you and your petty issues.
QE137- There are many common items that are regularly used to kill or accidentally kill. Can I choose something for you to give up? I would have a hard time deciding between medical care, knives, electricity, water, cars, alcohol, being overweight, .....
So the people who got shot and killed was refused the right to carry a concealed weapon and defend themselves.. The families should now sue the State of New York and New York City for taking the right to carry a concealed weapon to maybe have stopped this man. I would take it to court and sue the city for millions.... Lawyers will have a payday feast...
Sue the City of New York for millions by taking the right of the civilians ability to protect themselves. I would take this to all the courts and sue the City and State of New York. Make them pay for their stupidness...
I would personally sue Cuomo for this tragedy he deserves to be sued for all his money... Sue Cuomo, Sue Cuomo, Sue Cuomo, Sue Cuomo.
Doesn't anyone find the picture of the cops in full military gear carrying assault weapons, just a bit disturbing? Sure looks like 30 round magazines too.
Obviously they must be planning something other than just enforcing laws because "the only thing a "assault weapon" and high capacity magazines are good for, is killing a lot of people." I've read that far too many times in these posts recently, so it must be true.
Why is it that we don't want law abiding citizens to have these weapons, but we seem to look the other way when police have them and are becoming more and more militarized every day? Why have AR's replaced shotguns as a patrol weapon in most cities? Aren't these overkill in urban environments?Seems to me that at least 99.9% of crimes are committed against law abiding citizens, not police. If it is OK for their protection, why not law abiding citizens?
Updates on the story indicate the shooter using a shotgun. Are we going to go after these now too? Seems to me I heard the Vice-President advising choosing a shotgun over an "assault weapon." I guess law enforcement wasn't listening or in agreement.
What this guy has done is horrible and I don't mean to downplay that, just trying to put a few things in perspective. I am a full blown Progressive, but I don't buy all this anti-gun nonsense. It is a personal right just like all the other personal rights I stand up for. And yes, I am concerned about the militarization of law enforcement. It isn't necessary. Yes, maybe there are the occasional hostage situations where they may need to take out a deranged killer to protect lives, but a better choice for that would be a good scoped bolt action rifle. It seems like many law enforcement agencies have geared up to conduct war rather than law enforcement. Folks ought to be paying better attention to what is going on around them. Generally I have no issues against law enforcement, but if it morphs into being about killing "bad guys" instead of enforcing laws, we are taking a step in the wrong direction.
My ? is, is the guy 64 or 68. The reporter 1st said,
"Troopers exchanged gunfire with the suspect ... the 64-year-old is in hiding, superintendent of New York State Police Jospeh D’Amico.
Then said, "Authorities believe that before his rampage, the 68-year-old set his residence on fire in Mohawk, NY,...
Don't you love when people keep the facts straight. How are we supposed to trust the report if they can't keep basic facts straight.
To: TDJi and 1 new day and DTRX: You people are Totally CORRECT about the cops and their "new military threads" and assault weapons to PARADE in front of America and the sheeple. New York is/WAS the testing ground for the "new Tough gun law" that gov COMA signed. But It is OK for 40 round magazine automatic weapons for those Gutter thug killers with badges..Why?? First go to yahoo or google or bing or whatever and type in the heading "Somebody Picked The Wrong Diner" compliments of Glock, then for more laughs "Somebody picked the wrong girl". And MOST IMPORTANTLY YES! the Evill Rich aristocrats and their Ultra Demonic corporations want We American Sheeple to get used to WHAT IS HAPPENING: The National Debt of 40Trillion Dollars equals EXACTLY What these Smug Aristocrats have stashed away in foreign banks which THEY STOLE With the Help of Federal and State Senators Blo and Job thru tax bonus evasion for the Evil rich and their corporations, wars, wall street fraud, insurance company overCharging, ETC,ETC,ETC so it has to be paid back with??..Why "The Sequester" Of Course!! what a great name for paying back the Trillions the Evil Rich Stole from America. AND AND AND AND they DoubleFu cK US with $4.50 for a gallon of gas while the people of Venezuela pay 10CENTS A GALLON for the same stuff. This is Exactly like JUST BEFORE The French Revolution where the aristocrats were taken out in 1790. " Oooh, We won't make that mistake again!!" They say to each other. So lets hire these Gutter Thugs, stick them in military gear, paste a badge on them and put an assault rifle in their hands and tell them to KILL anyone who resists us. And, AND!! It works Soooooo Well when the Nutjobs like this deranged fossil or that little sack if $H!T adamn lancer or the Many Many Many Many NutCases get hold of a fireArm. These NutJobs give the EVil aristocrats, Who are Destroying American Society, the reason to take the guns of Law Abiding Americans, WHO ALSO HAPPEN TO SEE What IS GOING ON. When you get a chance, Checkout the same sitch as this NutJob Except a Surprise; Type in: "Somebody Picked The Wrong diner" and see what happend with todays scenario ON THE FLIP SIDE. Oooh andNew York gov coma: take your smug look with your evil rich servants and Shove It MORON.
Gee, I've notice that 9 out of ten of these crazy shooting are done by a WHITE man, I wonder why. Can't be because they are the majority because they are about 60% here in America. And before you even think I'm making a racist point I happen to be White ..
YAWN
Jim -768838
If those fetuses had been armed, it never would have happened.
tdj1
Who the heck is Sue Cuomo and what does she have to do with this shooting?
Really!? You mean to tell me that there "are" rational motives out there that would justify such a shooting?!
Ridiculous remark if you ask me... Makes no sense at all...
Getting your car washed while you get a haircut? Genius! Except for that whole "getting shot" thing.
@Cappy.
No two different towns.
I must admit though that was my first thought the way they worded it
It is a great idea though Cappy! Two birds one stone. We're going to be millionaires!
The two towns are across the Mohawk River from each other. I used to live there. Kind of shocking, but then again we had Jennifer Riesel, so maybe not.
I WANT IN: But my barber shop/car wash will also have a Putt-Putt, Golf Range, AND Gun Range...
>:-)
The best carwash I went to was a topless one in Florida with college coeds working it hard. The scissors and haircut would be a bad mix for the booby wash........
The way this is worded makes me think 8 people are daed and two more were injured. Just the fact ma'am.
You'd be surprised what people combine with car washes....
Can we blame the oversized sugary drinks?
Cappy - you certainly did not read the article. Read before you comment would be a good thing.
Don't forget the to have a bar in your barber shop/car wash/gun range/ Putt-Putt/ Driving Range... oh yea and a laundromat.
If it was one of those bikini car wash places it would have never happened... too many guys with big guns cocked and locked...
Sounds like someone wasn't paying their protection payments to Uncle Guido!
Maybe it was the cops since they're the only ones allowed to have guns in that state?
So, you would run through the car wash first to get your hair shampooed, than as you got your haircut, your car goes through. Genius.
Feel free to surprise us, Mom2Five!
I usually combine a polish with my car wash.
ILXR, what is the address to that topless carwash? I need to vacation in Florida anyway.
I assume the topless students are female, right?
No! You got that wrong, I wanted a blow dry, not my brains blown out!
Inmyday, It was in Tampa but only last about 6 months until the fuddy duddy old people stroked out and and got it shut down. Yes, it was college girls.
An excellent alternative is the Mons Venus on Dale Mabry. This is why they have so many Superbowls in Tampa, it really is not all about the beaches and sunshine...........Enjoy!
Laundry, Pet washes, Restaurants, coffee shops, tanning beds.... We have a picture of a guy washing a huge turtle in a self serve bay. He was washing it before killing it and eating it.
good ole turtle soup..yummy
You people can joke about it all you want but it could very well happen to you, the odds are going up just look how many crazy shootings there were and how frequently it's happening, so crack all the jokes you want just remember what comes around goes around, or something like that .... LOL
Sam, Will refraining from humor make us all safer?
Ban haircuts and clean cars...they're KILLING people
I think it is more sinister than that. Going out in public. Better hole yourself up and never ever go out in public. Not even to vote.
Look, it either has to be no gun AT ALL, or their will just be a criminal who gets the gun he needs and do the crime he planned. He will meet bunch of people there whose like a sitting duck and get slaughtered. Because criminals always fiend a way to get a gun. In Norway there's not allow to have gun, only hunters, and this guy went and armed himself and killed 78 teens on a island. Now if just 1 of those could shoot back may be only 2 or 3 was lost.
In a country whit a lot of crazy's, i would definitely have my gun backup. What is wrong? A society under stress. What you should question is why the gun violence has gone crazy right when this issue of gun law is on the table.
gun violence has not gone crazy,they're just reporting every one right now to support their agenda
and doing an awsome job spelling while doing it...
Apparently you and I are the only ones who noticed this... :-/
Well I'm sure he was a law-abiding, gun-totin' man BEFORE he decided to become a killer! That should make some of ya'll rest easy. ; )
Oh...and for the many racisits posters from this week's sad story about the murdered black infant - presuming you are tracking this story as well - are you upset or are you pleased that the KillerofheDay is a white man?
bad haircut?
I am SURE it wasn't a legally purchased gun. The bad things that happen are ONLY done with stolen, illegal guns.
Legally purchased or not, I guess those gun restrictions passed in NY aren't doing enough. They need to ban all firearms that are not muzzle loaded. Black powder guns are what the founding fathers were envisioning people having anyway. They never thought for a second we would have smokeless powder guns capable of shooting more than 3 rounds a minute by an expert shooter.
The Remington Arms plant is in Ilion, just a couple of miles down the road from where this happened. Should be interesting to find out what kind of gun was used.
Richard... please tell me you are joking.
Richard=Clueless Idiot
Richard-1971294
Really? Since you obviously don't know it, here's the Second Amendment for ya
Now where, do tell, does it mention "Black Powder", or for that matter, and other type of guns?
Richard, you are joking, right? If the crafters of our founding document meant muskets, they would have said muskets. They used "Arms" to be sure no one thought they meant muskets. They knew defense weaponry had evolved over time. Probably started with a rock, then went to a club, then to a sword, then a muzzle loaded gun. Advancements were made, and the were intelligent enough to realize that the government would always have the latest and greatest. They wanted the people to be able to access whatever the government was able to get their hands on. I am sure they never envisioned a world where advancements would bring about the invention of guns that could shoot 5 rounds a second, but they knew there would be things better than muskets, and people better be able to stand up to oppression if necessary.
You know that of this type are committed by people known to the killer. Yet so many seem to forget that fact. A domestic violence incident gone bad? Who knows until the facts are released.
The Founders also didn't envision the Internet and instant communication to anywhere in the world. So if the government decides to restrict cell phone/land-line access and Internet access, it wouldn't be a violation of the first amendment either.
Well said citizen....they were brilliant and were thinking far into the future is why used the term "weapons"
Well, since they were just passed a couple of months ago, they're probably not even in effect.
The founders could have miswrote what they truly meant which was for all Americans to have Bear Arms. Bears were a menace to the colonialists especially the eastern brown and black bears.
2nd Amendment:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
5th Amendment:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval
forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor
shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be
taken for public use, without just compensation.
--------------------
It's obvious from the fifth amendment that the writers of the Constitution defined a Militia as more than a single individual. They never wanted individuals to have unlimited rights to firearms.
exyahoouser,
too bad the Supreme Court ruled otherwise... go read DC vs Heller
Richard you're a maroon! The Constitution and the BOR were purposefully designed to be timeless; you can make up whatever you want to in your over simplified mind; but don't tread on me!
ExYahooUser is a foriegn interloper with an agenda to divide and disarm America. He/she likes to cut and paste and then make ubsurd comments similar to the one posted in #5.12 thinking it will insight your ire or annoy your patriotic side.
Happy trolling he/she!
@Richard. The mold in the basement is getting to you, isn't it?
Good thing our idiot governor just signed sweeping gun legislation!!! Yay- no more violence or worrying about getting shot by a crazy lunatic- hey wait a minute!!!! The only person who wont harm anyone is me and all the other law abiding citizens forced to leave our guns home, but i guess its ok if we get shot while were out shopping or driving or doing anything else anywhere in new york state. Friggin politicians dont give a crap about our rights to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Maybe we should vote to remove all armed details from protecting leaders and politicians- maybe then they will know what its like to roam the streets with no protection then they will change their minds about guns quickly. Banning any type or all guns is not the answer to ending violence- people are violent by nature and have been since the caveman days- it will never change. At least give decent hard working people a chance to protect what they have. Someone should impeach Cuomo for acting too quickly and enacting garbage legislation in this state without the consent of the people he works for- never getting my vote for any office again cuomo!!!!
@ Richard
The founding fathers didn't envision a lot of things that we have now. So I guess you're in favor of only being able to use what was available back in the 1700s.
I guess we better also ban:
1. Cars
2. Airplanes
3. Space craft
4. Satellites
4. Computers
5. Internet
6. Cell phones
7. Indoor plumbing (first flush toilet wasn't invented until 1775 & in the U.S. throughout the 1800s only the very wealthy had any indoor plumbing)
8. Electricity & the items below that every house has which run on it
9. Television
10. Refrigerators
11. Washing machines/dryers
12. Microwaves
13. Dishwashers
Let's also ban:
14. Modern medical equipment
15. Modern medical procedures/dental care
16. Modern medicines
17. Supermarkets/shopping malls/big box stores
18. Paved streets
etc, etc.......After all the founding fathers never would have envisioned any of these things....
So you basically want to live in a barn (because a house without indoor plumbing/electricity is a barn), while your teeth rot in your mouth, sweat like a pig in the heat/freeze your nads off in the cold, smell like a damn horse everywhere you go because it's your only transportation, probably have to hunt and/or raise livestock to supplement the meager food items you can purchase at the General Store etc.....Better get used to going to bed at dark, since reading by candlelight or lanterns sucks, & get used to getting up at the crack of dawn to go tend to your animals. Then when you catch an easily cured disease or get severely injured you can just die young because no one can figure out what is wrong with you or help you. Yeah, sounds great!
Oneslackr, what part of "well-regulated" don't you get? Everything you listed is "well-regulated", as should be firearms. Try taking a dune-buggy on the freeway and see if you get pulled over. Try flying an airplane by the White House. You get the point, I hope.
ExYahoo
Well regulated does not refer to rules, it actually means well functioning.
In the 1700's regulate meant to adjust to some standard or requirement, as amount, degree.
gbreault85.......you said:
Are you contending that SCOTUS (in DC v Heller) found that individual U.S. citizens have "an unlimited right to firearms"?
Actually, the DC v Heller decision said:
SCOTUS (in DC v Heller) stated clearly that the 2nd Amendment does not confer upon U.S. citizens an "unlimited right" to own any weapons or for any purpose.
Currently, we are engaged in a political debate as to which weapons (i.e. assault rifles with large capacity magazines) are within U.S. citizens' rights to own.
Regardless if the Federal Government is able to ban either assault rifles or large capacity magazines, several states will do so. That will likely lead to a hearing before SCOTUS on those bans. It will be interesting to see if SCOTUS will find that assault rifles together with large capacity magazines (and possibly loaded with armor piercing bullets) are "in common use for lawful purposes" and/or "dangerous and unusual weapons".
It will be particularly interesting to hear any Justice (i.e. Scalia) argue that (extra-judicial) insurrection is a "lawful purpose". After all, neither our Constitution nor our Bill of Rights, nor any legal precedent provides guidance on how and under what conditions U.S. citizens can (legally) assert a right to take up arms against the U.S. Federal Government.
driving and flying are a privilege not a right , and the words not to be infringed is in that amendment the only one that says it .
La_Grenouille I assume what Richard-1971294 was trying to say is this...When that constitution was written...what kind of guns did they have? (Black powder)...so how could they possibly know what kind of guns would be in the future? I think if they had a clue about the future of guns, there would have been some exceptions made for safety reasons...just my opinion. My apologies to Richard if I understood your statement incorrectly.
@ExYahooUser - Our governement has placed "well-regulated" laws on alcohol and getting behind the wheel of a car too....but that doesn't stop people from going to the bar, getting drunk, and killing other innocent people with their car. I hope you get the point too, but sadly, you won't....
@SickofPolitics, if drinking and driving was legal, there would be far more deaths on the road, but I'm sure you won't comprehend that simple fact.
@Citizen-xx You must hate it when people put the facts right in front of your face. The fifth amendment clears separates a "Militia" from an individual, so that means the second amendment only deals with arming militias.
@ ExYahoo
Someone already posted an answer to your question:
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are not timeless documents.
Politicians and judges exist for that very reason. New laws and interpretations all the time.
Ian Emdee,
Read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers. They make absolutely clear the intention of the 2nd amendment by our founding fathers. A well armed citizenry was another of their checks and balances and was intended as a check on any army foreign or domestic. It was intended that the common citizens be at least as well armed as the militia. Look at the weapons our police, homeland security, national guard etc carry. That is what we are intended to posess. Scary isn't it?
McMWest.......
Our "founding fathers" were hardly unanimous in their support of the BOR and/or its various amendments. It was a compromise document intended to satisfy opposition to the Constitution. Nevertheless, taken as a whole, it is both valuable and worth defending.
The 2nd Amendment was largely the handiwork of George Mason. He was an ardent anti-federalist whose ideas, if they had been implemented, would have (arguably) resulted in the "Balkanization" of the United States. Certainly, the weak central government promoted by Mason could never have afforded President Abraham Lincoln the tools necessary to forcefully preserve our union when Mason's Virginia and the several other slave states seceded.
Whether one agrees with the (now absurd) notion that the U.S citizenry should be so well armed as to be able to defeat their own government's military or not, the 2nd Amendment (as written) is an atrociously ambiguous composition. Who knows if this is by design or error?
In any case, our (conservative) SCOTUS has already ruled that government can restrict access to certain weapons. Clearly, those weapons "in common use", including assault rifles, are totally inadequate to defeat the combined armed forces of the United States. But, even if citizens were allowed to own weaponry sufficient for such a purpose, they (99%) would not be financially able to acquire them. What fool would trust (only) the 1% with such power?
So, in the current situation, owning assault rifles and such for the purpose of defeating an hypothetical tyrannical regime is delusional. Some of us believe those owning these weapons are more interested in intimidation (of their political opposition) than in fighting some fanciful civil war against the most powerful military (by far) in the history of the world. It won't work. We (democrats) will see to that and it won't require armed force.
Hmm, hard to believe this happened in NY. As I understand it, there's some pretty tough gun control laws there.
The obviously need to pass more feel good laws. That'll do it!
geez guys, as a gun owner, and hunter....I sure support banning military wanna be style arms...personally I find 80 % of those that buy them to be...well, wannabe's. And of course tough gun laws won't stop such incidents, any more than drunk driving laws eliminate drunk driving. We had no problems contolling fully auto's a long time ago, and wanna be arms are the new auto's.
I find miliatry wanna be guns...embarassing :)
But what do I know, my guns are revolvers, single and double, and pumps. Manly stuff :) Auto's in general are for chicks
That's in NYC, hundreds of miles from the towns involved here. The new guns laws in NYS were just passed a couple of months ago.
@John.... keep stroking your pump.... You don't know crap if you say your a hunter. What's the difference between wood and black plastic then eh? My H-Bar is a target rifle.. .223 is a great varmint rifle.. Dollars to doughnuts your not a hunter NOR a firearms owner..
Don't confuse New York City with the State of New York.
And NYC does have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, but that still doesn't stop all gun crimes. No one believes that any law can, but there can be many lives spared when we are pro-active about curbing gun violence. The NRA approach is simply to be passive, say "it's the crazies," and offer a tsk-tsk or two; or propose that all gun-free zones should be eliminated. Wow, that sounds like fun: going to the confessional in a church with a priest who's carrying heat; asking for help from a librarian who has a gun at her waist; a child asking a question of a cranky lady teacher who glares at him while fingering her handgun; going to a funeral with some very upset people who are carrying. You stop and think about everyone carrying and it makes our society sound like some dystopia imagined by a sci-fi writer.
Gun laws are alot like speed limits. When they think they can break them many do.
BTW, the problem in Ameriloonigunnica is not guns. It's Ameriloonigunnicans who get access to them.
Again I ask...can this country be saved?
@ John,
What is it with you anti-gun folks and your queer sexuality issues with firearms? Why I do declare I do blush every time I don't have to reload after each shot down range; what a maroon!
@ John
Yeah, all 830,000+ law enforcement officers in the U.S. & our entire military (2 million or so active/reserve/national guard etc..) is full of nothing but a bunch pansy, limp wrist, girly men who use semi-automatic & fully automatic firearms. What a bunch of pussies! All of them probably wear high heels & pants that zip on the side too!
Obama needs to get a clue too & hire some real men like John to protect him. Currently Obama is relying on a bunch of chicks with automatic weapons for his safety.
BTW John, you're an idiot!
John has a phallic fetish of some kind.
Ray, NY State has some of the most strict "gun control" laws in the country, even before Governor Cuomo pulled his latest shenanigans, (and those latter laws have not gone into effect yet. A majority of county governments are making noises these latest laws need to be repealed.) Yet this happened.
Whatever happened to enforcing existing laws, BEFORE we jump to conclusions and enact even more stringent rules on the majority of law abiding citizenry? Could it be the majority of politicians want to be seen as doing something positive, instead of their usual "head in the sand" do nothing activities?
Ray:New York city have the strictest gun laws in the nation, not upstate New York New York City is the safest big city in the nation. Anything can happen any place at anytime. This is a city of 8.4 million people crammed into 365 square miles. Only Paris have more tourists Public transportation operates 24/7 There are always people in the streets in this city Came here 54 years ago and love it!
Here come the gun nuts for a haircut and carwash!!!
They need a brain wash.
William,
Please define for me what a "gun nut" is. I am woefully ignorant of the term.
A gun nut is anyone that believes in their 2nd amendment rights and is vocal about these rights. A gun nut isn't afraid of guns and does not pee their pants with fright every time they see a gun. William is not a gun nut, he is just a nut.
Sam-
You pee your pants with fright if you see a gun? It is just a gun for @!$%#'s sake! It is a tool, when employed properly, and is highly effective. You were probably not raised around guns. When I fired my first rifle I was only 8 yrs old and we were shooting at targets. We had no idea that they could be used to kill someone, but we were also taught proper shooting etiquette, safe-handling procedures and respect for the weapon at all times. We were also taught the difference between right and wrong and were also taught the fear of God and the fear of our father's belt. When it comes to good order and discipline, you either stayed in between the lines or you get your ass whipped for doing something wrong. ESPECIALLY if it dealt with firearms.
But we never abused the privilege of shooting that rifle and we never broke our father's trust.
I guess times have changed or you just weren't brought up around firearms...So sad that you missed out on a big part of Americana...There is still hope for you...Otherwise, YOU LOSE.
:-\
Inspired - Apparently, sarcasm goes right over your head.
.
OBAMA !!
I had gone about 4 minutes without hearing that loser's name. Thanks for ruining it.
Speaking of loser, have a nice day...
Still mad??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
What about him???
You crackers lost the election. Deal with it.
Said Rupert Murdoch's sheep. Bahhhhh bahhhhhh.
Tet.....the 'reality' of the election is that 'we all lost' fool! Just keep believing that more taxes, more spending, increasing the deficit, no balanced budget, will solve our fiscal problems! You believe that (Obama's policies), then your truly delusional.
Go back to school and learn the difference between "your" and "you're." Fourth grade should do it.
Maybe you think giving the rich lower taxes is going to make something golden trickle down to the masses...let me tell you, I've been trickled on since Ronnie Ray-gun, and I have to keep taking showers. Other than that, it had no effect on me, but it did generate the greatest income inequality in any Western democracy.
Cutting taxes for the rich doesn't create jobs. That myth died some time ago.
Maybe you're one of the rich and don't want to pay your share. Well, shame on you.
@ Tetrapoda,
And Sambo be so happy and still so poor! Really have we come to this?
@Ron D----please tell me what you consider fair share?40%-50%-60%-70%?
Don't feed the trolls!
More info from another site: The suspect reportedly used a long gun for the shootings. He had not been apprehended as of 10:45 a.m.
Reports indicate the suspect lived in that building; police were seen taking about half a dozen long guns from the residence shortly before 11 a.m. but would not confirm if they belonged to the suspect. Reports indicate police are searching for a 50- to 60-year-old slender white male, about 5-foot-11, with white hair and a white beard, last seen wearing a flannel shirt
Santa Claus after a crack binge.
I had the suspects description in my head before you even posted that...sounds just right.
Be on the lookout for a man with a bad haircut and a jeep that wasn't cleaned properly.
I'm from NY and yes, we have some of the more strict gun laws but they still don't go far enough. The shooter that started the fire and then shot the first responders received the guns from a neighbor who bought the guns legally and then gave them to him because the shooter had a criminal background. If there had been a background search required when buying ammunition, the shooter would not have been able to purchase the ammunition. Guns and ammunition is one of the least regulated consumer items on the market and THE ONLY ONE whose intended design and purpose is to kill. While there may be some guns designed for competition or target practice, most are designed to be efficient at killing.
That is a crazy idea! Most serious shooter reload their ammo so a background search required for ammunition wouldn't work. It is none of the governments business how much ammo any of us purchase. This is just a totally silly suggestion! Maybe we should regulate how much kool-aid you are drinking instead since it is affecting your reasoning abilities.
That neighbor in NY who purchased the guns in a straw purchase for the killer should be prosecuted to the full extent of the laws already in place. Part of the problem is all the laws we already have are not followed. We don't prosecute those people that are ineligble to own firearms when they try to purchase them.
Mellissa, you're so completely full of sh*t, your eyes are brown. Guns are the least regulated consumer good??? What the hell kind of regulations do you have to deal with when buying a toaster oven? Does a person have to have a federally issued license to engage in the business of selling food (also a consumer good)? Do you have to have a federal background check to buy a chainsaw from a dealer of chainsaws? Look, having been a martial artist for 15 years, I could best this nutjob's numbers with a 4 foot long red oak dowel, it's called a jo and it's a bad @ss weapon that will kill a man about six different ways. It has the advantage over a firearm (at close range) of being silent, except for that whole wet "thwack" overripe melon sound of a skull splitting open. And if you're going to start with that whole bullsh*t argument about cars being registered and guns not being registered, don't even, because driving is not a right, but rather a privilege. There is nothing in the Bill of Rights regarding ownership of a vehicle, so the government can infringe upon that at will. It says right there in big black letters (what we attorneys refer to as black letter law) SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. Exactly what part of that do you mentally defective liberals not understand. You're probably the type who would have answered that survey in Germany taken on the anniversary of the Anschluss (annexation of Austria by Hitler) the same way 61% of Germans did. They said they perferred a strong leader who did not have to deal with political opposition to the current democratic state of affairs. They also said that the government taking care of their every need was more important than freedom and the ability to choose their representatives. This is the mentality of the urban liberal and the reason why this country will ultimately tumble into either dictatorship or civil war, probably both with the civil war being the means by which we attempt to remove the dictator.
Guess we're going to have to start posting armed guards at all hair salons and barber shops to protect from gun violence...instead of just making it more difficult to get guns.
making it more difficult to "get guns" will do nothing to stop those who already have guns.
This happened in NY? NY has some of the toughest gun control laws in the country. How can this be possible?
criminals will ALWAYS be able to get guns, this will never change no matter what stupid laws are passed! Those laws are just to make the pansies happy. This wouldn't have happened if someone in the barbershop was carrying.
Arm all the barbers and hair dressers. Also car wash attendants. Because more guns is working so well in Chicago.
Notice the gun nuts don't disagree with your statement about arming barbershops and car washes...they really love their guns
And why didn't those barbers teach those murderers not to be bullies. It is clearly the fault of the barbers and car washes, not the guns.
Criminals do not care about any stinking laws... Laws only stop law abiding citizens from buying guns,
That's because stupid statements don't generally warrant a response.
Law abiding citizens can still buy guns regardless of the laws in place. The limits imposed are the type of gun. In a situation such as this would the banned guns have given a good guy any edge they wouldn't have with a not-banned gun?
No gun should be banned from a "law abiding citizen" whom would like to own one.
...because we here in America have super-human criminals, unaffected by any of our laws, and it's pointless to even consider ourselves a nation of laws? We're a nation of criminals?
No, that's not all the laws do. They also stop law abiding citizens from selling guns to criminals, which is where the vast majority of guns used to commit a crime come from.
Duh.
I can't buy bucky balls, a magnetic toy, because some stupid parents gave it to their children under 14 who swallowed the magnets and died.
tim,
Actually the majority come from a small number of gun dealers, who are never prosecuted and are only subject to scrutiny up to once per year.
Right Pragmatic, that's because our government is stupid. I hope nobody is debating that.
Well the government deserves blame in that we get the government we vote for. Agencies used to have much more authority and funding to enforce laws. But the congress stripped their funding, cut their authority, made the director a position requiring senate confirmation (hence there has been no director for years), and imposed the limits on inspections.
That's right. The better solution is to regulate ammunition.
@ Barry....
You can't be that ignorant can you? I've been shooting for 30 years and I haven't bought a box of ammo in almost the same time... now you go and figure THAT out.
and just how will that stop anyone who has a couple of thousand rounds already stocked away?
"They also stop law abiding citizens from selling guns to criminals, which is where the vast majority of guns used to commit a crime come from."
This has to be one of the most ridiculous statements yet! Leave us law abiding, gun owning citizens alone! I can't believe the amount of men in this country who are for more laws and regulations against gun ownership and right to carry. My God where are your balls?...because you are the most pitiful group of cowards on the planet. Man up, remember how this country was founded; if you are not one of the brave shut your mouths and go hide your wimpy head in the sand....you are pathetic.
How, exactly? Why can't I sell my AR to my neighbor, who just got out of jail? There may be a law but laws are only laws when people choose to follow them. Big difference. This is why universal background checks on private sales will never work....totally unenforceable.
Good thinking Barry, that would just create a new black market. Good lord, will we ever learn from our Prohibition mistake?
@ Tim,
Have you ever had a rational thought? Since you haven't been paying much attention; American criminals are relatively unaffected by any of our laws until they are caught breaking them and this is something they regularly try to avoid.
Your comment is nothing more than fear mongering at its best. I've said it before and I'll say it again, millions of Americans go about their daily business, work and play, without experiencing any form of crime or come in contact with or interact in a negative way with the criminal elements of our society.
I suspect that you're just another foreign interloper with an agenda to insight fear to divide and disarm America.
Happy trolling interloper!
Brave men don't need to carry a gun to feel safe. Only cowards derive a sense of safety from carrying something. Same way a toddler carries a blankey for comfort.
Pragmatic, you just cracked me up...... that was funny, I don't care who you are..lololololol
@ Pragmatic,
What do you know of brave men or their circumstance you arrogant buffoon? Your comment demeans every American soldier, law enforcement officer and citizen who braves being on his or her own in the open country. You had a thought, let it go before you further embarrass yourself.
And what do you? Clutching a piece of steel and jumping at every bump in the night like a frightened little lamb doesn't sound like someone who is brave to me. It sounds like somebody who is a coward and is compensating for their cowardice.
You can give a soldier a gun, but that's doesn't make them brave. Bravery is a true character trait that manifests itself in the actions a person takes. Bravery is running into a burning building to save a child. Bravery is flying an experimental aircraft with no idea whether you will land in one piece. Bravery is leading the charge on the battlefield under heavy fire. A coward doesn't put themselves in harm's way by choice. Being brave has nothing to do with carrying a gun.
Tim-27ish... That is exactly what I mean, criminals ARE NOT stopped by law, please look up the definition of criminal... it is a dream to think that mountains of laws will change criminal activity.... crimials DO NOT OBEY LAWS...
@ Pragmatic, the interloper buffoon, I was hoping you'd have something even more benign to say!
I served in the United States Coast Guard! I been as far north and south as one can go by sea where one mistake will kill you. I've swam and worked to save people and property regardless of the conditions. I've gone onto and into burning structures to fight fires that you cavalierly speak of. I've carried a side arm as a federal boarding officer as well performing drug interdiction boardings on the open sea where you never know what awaits you. So you can cram the lamb crap where the sun doesn't shine interloper.
By the way, mine isn't made of steel, it's a revolver pistol made of polymer with a two inch barrel that shoots .410 shot gun rounds and hollow point .45 colt longs, it's small and powerful and fits nicely under my coat. I only clutch it when needed.
I also studied Shaolin Kempo Karate for many years really don't need the weapon one on one but I've learned that cowards don't usually play nice or alone. The Coast Guard motto is Semper Paratus, Always Prepared.
Gun regulations like background checks are intended to be preventative - background checks prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands. No, not all guns. But since the existing NICS system is inadequate, and isn't required for all transfers, the vast majority of guns that are currently used illegally were not acquired illegally - they were not stolen or found somewhere - they were purchased within the laws from law abiding citizens. We need to fix this. Is that clear enough for you?
Are you capable of having grown-up discussion? Because the notion that criminals will always get gun even if we finally decide to actually make them 'well regulated' is simply stupid. It only happens here now due to poor regulations. Oh, and third world countries - it happens there too. I'm not the one who isn't paying attention, pal. Look around you - at the rest of the civilized world, and I mean everywhere in the civilized world. Pardon me if I don't have much respect for those who want the U.S. to remain among the ranks of the third world.
So what? Background checks are performed by law abiding citizens and prevent criminals from acquiring guns. Similarly, licensing and registration is performed by law abiding citizens and ensures that the supply chain of firearms remains in the hands of the law abiding. Creating laws at the federal level cuts off the interstate trafficking because there's no incentive to travel to a state with more permissive laws - which is where most of the guns originate that are used to commit a crime in states and cities with stricter laws like Chicago.
It has nothing to do with whether criminals obey the laws or not. Not only is that argument patently stupid, it's irrelevant.
It's a supply chain issue. The vast majority of guns that are used illegally are acquired legally because the laws are inadequate to prevent it. Fix the laws and cut off the supply.
Please look up the definition of the phrase 'supply chain'.
Hey, Everyone-
TIM'S BACK! He's better than ever! He will be here to tell one and all that background checks should be universal, the 2nd Amendment is for the Militia only, and that semi-automatic rifles should be left to the military only, and that high-capacity magazines are ZZZZZzzzz...
Did you vote for Obama? He is the one that is holding us to third world standards.
SMH,
:-\
@ Tim, the foreign fear mongering interloper,
I'd love to have a grown up discussion, any time you feel capable of carrying one past your nose. Let's start with your misconception of the 2nd Amendment's use of the words "well regulated," I know for a fact that others have attempted to explain this concept to you before, so I'll give you another shot at taking it in. Well regulated has nothing to do with regulating, law making, regarding the possession of guns, it has everything to do with the readiness of the militia and its capabilities to defend against enemies both foreign and domestic. If you were an American citizen you'd get this premise, which most like yourself cannot. Criminals are already regulated by the laws that are already on the books; more laws will change nothing in this regard, to think otherwise is idiotic. The last time I checked the rest of the so called civilized world was anything but civilized; especially the third world ones. If you were here you'd know the USA is anything but a third world country, unless of course your only perspective is an inner city ghetto one.
Happy trolling interloper!
You are confused. Although I do think background checks should be universal, along with 90% of the rest of the country, I have never said the 2nd Amendment is for the Militia only, nor that semi-automatic rifles should be left to the military only. You dozed off before finishing your sentence but I do think high-capacity magazines should be banned. Pay attention.
Great. Let me know when you learn how to, because so far you're not even close.
Actually, I'm well aware of the original intent of the phrase 'well regulated' in the 2nd Amendment - basically, it meant well-equipped, that's all. I wasn't referring to that - I simply used the phrase as a play on words, Einstein. You jumped to a conclusion when reading my use of the phrase, assuming I thought that's what the 2nd Amendment phrasing was about. I never mentioned the 2nd Amendment at all. Outrunning our headlights there a bit, aren't we?
The laws on the books, however many there may be, are not doing the job adequately. It's too easy to get a gun if you want one. Criminals are not regulated, as others have so astutely pointed out - only law abiding citizens abide by the laws...but right now it's perfectly easy for someone to buy a gun legally for the purposes of committing a crime because the laws do not enjoin the law-abiding citizen involved in the sale of the weapon from doing anything to stop it. I have no sympathy for those who seek to avoid further regulation simply because of the inconvenience, and posture their argument as if it's a gross breach of their rights. It is not. See Scalia's majority opinion in D.C. v. Heller, 2008.
As if you've ever even looked anywhere outside of the U.S. Sure. Once again, you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I excluded the third world from the 'civilized' world. Apparently you're happy to relegate the U.S. to the realm of garden spots like El Salvador or Colombia. I am not, because I was born in the U.S. - in fact, in what is considered by some to be the worst city in the country for gun violence (no, not Chicago - Chicago doesn't make it into the top ten) and I have lived in the U.S. my entire life. I'm a citizen, pal, probably more so than you.
As far as gun violence is concerned, the USA is right in the heart of the third world. Unlike you, I think that's a huge problem and we should do something about that. Sorry for the inconvenience. Not.
Tim-27ish if it does not stop criminals what is the point... it has NONE it is simply a waist of money and time.....
C'mon, you're not really that dense, are you? Right now, firearms are being sold to criminals by law-abiding citizens - either intentionally or unknowingly, by dealers or private citizens. That's where criminals get most of their guns. The dealers may be knowingly breaking the existing law, in which case they should be prosecuted and having all guns registered and audited would help in doing so (Where did you sell these 15 Bushmasters, and were is the background documentation?). Right now, that's not required by law. But, the dealers may be simply relying on the existing background check system, which is incomplete and inadequate, and so once again guns fall into the wrong hands. We should fix that. Private sales don't generally require a background check, and so guns are easily sold into the criminal element unknowingly by law abiding gun owners. We should fix that too. Just knowing that a background check that actually works will be required should be a deterrent to many if not most criminals trying to buy a gun. Licensing would require anyone who owns a gun to demonstrate that they know how to use it safely. Like a car. Yes, I know guns are a right, cars are a privilege - that's not the point - the point is safety. Rights do not come without constraints, first among them being the safety of others.
The idea is to beef up the laws at the federal level so that the same law applies everywhere, thus cutting off interstate trafficking, and so that the supply of guns moving from the law-abiding to the law-breakers is cut of at the law-abiding side. It's not that complicated.
The whole notion that small arms are a defense against tyranny is silly, especially given the relative fire power of the government, and nothing more than an excuse for gun owners (mostly sellers, dealers and manufacturers, frankly) to avoid the inconvenience of a little extra paperwork, at the expense of the safety of the majority of Americans who don't own a gun, and shouldn't have to. If you really think the U.S. government is that scary, you should probably move somewhere else, because your little AR-15 isn't gonna do @!$%#. You should also consider the possibility that you've been duped by the NRA and their primary benefactors, the firearms manufacturers. Either way, we're going to have to get used to the idea that if we ever have to stand up to a (currently imaginary) tyrannical government, we're going to have to do it non-violently, if only because we're already hopelessly out-gunned despite the fact that Americans own half the private small firearms on Earth, and apparently most of the testosterone.
Frank,
Good show of bravery! And thanks for your service.
Do you even know what interloper means? I wasn't speaking directly to you when you felt the need to share your opinion. Your history only proves the point I was making, which is that possession of a firearm doesn't make you brave. But you can be both brave and possess a firearm.
Tim, a point
I don't believe in deterrence to criminals. But laws do keep honest people honest. If you make it a severe penalty for a private citizen selling to a criminal (by finding a serial numbered gun at a crime scene etc), they will do their homework on the buyer to cover their butts. A law abiding citizen looking to sell a firearm doesn't want to sell a gun that has a high probability of both being used in a crime and traced to back them.
Sorry to piss you off, Tim-3.14159265359-
I now have 8 x 30rd PMAGs and another 15 on back order...That's 240 rounds I can carry on my chest rig...When the other 15 come in I can carry another 450 rounds in a drop bag...
Question #1: What criminal do you think will walk into a gun shop and buy a weapon let alone comply with the background check? Criminals don't fill out paperwork because they are NOT law-abiding citizens...
Question #2: What criminal is going to meet someone in a parking lot and complete the background check paperwork? Something tells me he will just shoot the person selling the weapon and take his gun...
"HEY YOU! You can't have this gun until you complete this backgro-" BLAM!
Your logic is sorely over-rated, Tim-8675309OU812...Sad.
:-\
You're not pissing me off - it's just difficult to see how someone could be so dense.
The vast majority of guns used to commit a crime are currently obtained by criminals buying them from law-abiding citizens because nothing in the current laws prevents them from selling those guns to anybody they please. We need laws that will all of those require law-abiding citizens to stop doing that. It won't stop all gun trafficking, but it will put a big dent in what is now a largely unregulated private market.
It's not that complicated, really. Unless you simply don't want to understand it, for whatever reason.
As for your over abundance of ammo capacity, well, I can only assume you feel the need to overcompensate for some personal issues, but that's no concern of mine.
Ah, you have learned somewhat; instead of referring to someone's manhood and in the process being questioned about your sexual preference, instead now you merely refer to it as 'some personal issues.'
Whatever. We already know what you prefer.
What source are you using for this boldface lie?
I don't lie, and I don't bluff. My source is the BATF.
You can do a little better than that. I looked at BATF's website and saw no such report. Please cite your source...
You don't lie and you don't bluff, but until you cite your source, you are just full of @!$%#.
Oh, TIIIIIM!!!!
LMFAO!!! Guess what? The Assault Weapons Ban to include High Capacity Magazines just fell off the table!!!
Boy you must be royally pissed! HA HA!!!
Now I can go purchase a 7.62mm version AR-15 and some ammo too!
The Constitution and Democracy is safe for one more day...
YOU LOSE.
No Way .....There are no guns in New York ......
Trying to outdo Cappy-1911 as the top stupid remark?
Mission accomplished!
jeez... NY is not just a city
Another clueless wit who doesn't realize that NY state is a bit different from NY CITY. Guess dropping out in fifth grade caused a lack of skills in the area of geography.
Here come the cliches. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." Yeah no crap, but guns make it a whole lot easier. And by the way I own a gun and I have no fear of stricter gun laws. Grow a pair and stop trying to show your manhood with weaponry. Jeeze, people are dead and you are whining about your rights that aren't being infringed at all. Stop it!
clueless are those that cannot understand SARCASM...GEESHHHHHHHHHH
Excuse me .....Does the "STATE" of NY have some of the most STRICT gun laws in the country ? Yes it does ......Do they do ANYTHING to curb GUN VIOLENCE ? No they don't ....
R.Scalzo .....Is the NYSAFE act a state or city law ? Right ...your're an idiot .
The problem Fubar, is the government is NOT going to be satisfied with just banning assault style weapons, or high capacity mags or stricter guns laws. Look at all the recent legislation attempts: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/02/missouri-democrats-intruduce-legislation-to-confiscate-firearms-gives-gunowners-90-days-to-turn-in-guns/
Once they get what they want, and eventually realize what an abject failure banning assualt sytle weapons is, they will move on to bigger things, until all law abiding citizens are effectively disarmed.
@ Fubar, an appropriate title for your self I might add!
Yet another anti-gun he/she with a queer sexuality issue with firearms, you stop it!
I say my right to bare arms is being infringed upon; as an individual, any law in this regard is unwelcome and not gladly received by me!
By definition,
Infringe: Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on.
Encroach: Intrude on (a person's territory or a thing considered to be a right).
Intrude: Put oneself deliberately into a place or situation where one is unwelcome or uninvited.
Unwelcome: Not gladly received.
DON"T TREAD ON ME!
What, they banned T-shirts now?!
Nice catch, interloper!
No need for BACKGROUND CHECKS, the SELLERS will give you a GUN NO QUESTIONS ASKED, They are so HONEST and have SAFETY IN MIND AT ALL TIMES !!!! WE will even scratch off the SERIAL #'s as a precaution so you do not get CAUGHT !!! Free of charge !!!
Sounds like a statement from the NYPD.
I am for stricter gun laws, but this is an asinine statement. I bought my handgun at a gun show and they ran a very thorough back ground check on me. So while it may be an issue in some places it is not in all. And I live in Virginia where people love their guns. We run background checks here. Blanket statements, even if they are in caps and bold type, are still hyperbole and ridiculous.
If thorough background checks at gun shows were the norm, I doubt that the NRA would be opposing them now.
Eighty-five seconds.
That's how long it took for Eduardo Sencion to exit his SUV, empty a 30-round clip from his automatic assault weapon into the air, walk into the IHOP while reloading, empty another clip – injuring 14 people and killing four – walk outside and fire off another 30 rounds, injuring a motorcyclist.
(Carson City Sheriff ) Furlong said many people initally questioned why someone didn't try to stop the shooter. But witnesses and videos confirmed later that the attack happened so fast, no one could have, Fulong said.
Sencion moved fast and shot from the hip. His Norinco MAK90 assault rifle had been modified to fire as an automatic. Officials still don't know who converted it into an illegal machine gun.
-Reno Gazette-Journal
--------------------------------------------------------------
I bet he learned how to change it to full-auto at a gun show.
I bet you've never even seen the inside of gun show.
Hey, Ex@!$%#User-
It's against the law to modify your semiautomatic weapon into a full auto weapon. I goto gun shows all the time and there are no classes being taught their to do that. The only classes I see at these gun shows are concealed carry permit classes. That and I don't think the state and local police that loiter at these gun shows would appreciate that activity. Additionally, what law-abiding citizen would EVER want to break the law knowing to do so would force them to forfeit all the thousands of dollars they invested in their current inventory of firearms??? You would have to be a @!$%#ing idiot to think that would make sense.
Do you even go to gun shows?!?!? Do you have a clue??? Your writings clearly demonstrate to others that you don't know your head from your ass.
exyahoouser shot from the hip and hit that many people even with a full auto is very unlikely. the kick alone from full auto shooting will not let that happen. i have shot many times with full auto in the military. we do it for suppression fire, while other team members fire for effect in select single fire mode.
ExYahoo=another moron who knows nothing about guns/gun laws already in existence.
Every Gun Shop is required to run a background check on every gun sold - Gun show or not. If you buy from a business you get a background check. Federal law does not require a background check when guns are sold between private parties. Some states require a background check even then.
In theory, I don't have a problem with background checks for all - as long as provisions are made for transfer of weapons between family members especially as part of a will or inheritance. I don't what my guns taken by the state just because I died and there is no provision to transfer ownership to my kin.
You must have some facts that the rest of us don't have Alain(#12) because there aren't enough facts given in this story to get hysterical yet. Share them with us so that we can be hysterical and typ in bold CAPS too!
Hey Alain - Go take your meds. You're way past due for them.
10 people are dead here, but east coast matters more.
The headline counts four. Two others were shot and injured. How did you arrive to ten dead?
I was trying to say ten dead here in midwest in a single incident, but somehow its not newsworthy. Sorry for not being clearer. ;.)
No worries, dude. Sorry for the @!$%# you guys are experiencing out that way...No argument, this is a @!$%#ty world we live in, but I would NOT trade it for anywhere else in the world.
better yet, why don't me make having hair and washing cars illegal, that does away with the possibility of people getting shot at those two events
Good to see all those NEW laws are taking effect and working. Well done. Glad to see the bad guys are not using those evil "High Capacity" magazies. I'm sure they heard about the new 7 round law and got rid of their 14 round mags adn replaced them with 7 rounders. To be compliant. Ya know, cuz bad guys obey the law.
Oh wait. They don't and BumbleBurg only disarmed the people who DON"T commit crimes?! Well atlease you can stab the bad guy with a Pen, Or you can pee on yourself for home defense. According to the liberals thats the way to go. Be a victom and rely on sombody else (Cops) who wont be there when your beign raped, robbed or shot. They WILL be there AFTER the crime to take your report or stand over your dead body.
Liberals. Cuz sheeple do exist.
BumbleBurg only disarmed the people who DON"T commit crimes?!
You know every criminal is not a criminal until they commit their first crime...
do you get it?
The laws are ineffective because nobody came for their guns. That's the way it should be, but the fiction of coming to take your guns persists regardless.
Lots of crimes are committed without using firearms. So when do you intend to commit your first crime?
It's tremendously easy to be a criminal in our society. We live in a near police state where virtually any action can be construed as illegal.
So, your answer to that is MORE laws??????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
The 8 year GWB puppet regime is an excellent example.
Well since you asked, I'd like to see more enforcement of existing law, fund the agencies that enforce the laws, give them back the authority that has been stripped away the last 30 years, and permit the collection and analysis of data related to gun violence, a practice that has been virtually nonexistent the past 20 years.
Pragmatic-3918582
those Germans still wonder what happened when the gun registry was in acted....must have been thinking persistent fiction
$10 says it is a "law-abiding citizen" who got mad at his ex and her boyfriend.
Another $10 says he's white.
You don't know your history. The gun registry was enacted by the anti-Nazi party government in 1928. After Hitler came to power, the Nazis abolished much of this requirement by 1938. They lowered the age at which you could own a gun from 20 to 18. Hitler was popular, EXTREMELY popular in Germany. He had nothing to fear from an armed populace. The Nazi party was seen as a manly party and with it came nationalism and self reliance. Firearm ownership is part of self reliance, don't you think? The Germans thought so. German private gun ownership was extremely high, so high that the American GI's were shocked when they got there. They stole thousands of guns from the German citizens after the German defeat. Then in 1945, Eisenhower ordered all privately owned firearms in the American occupation zone to be confiscated.
Hitler only stopped the Jews from owning firearms, because under his new German law in 1933, they were not citizens of Germany. This also meant that Jews couldn't teach, be journalists, manufacture/deal firearms, practice law, etc.
Among the features of Hitler's gun law:
Lower the age from 20 to 18.
Acquire a single permit to buy a weapon and carry it wherever you want.
Long guns exempted from permit requirement.
Criminals don't get a permit.
What this means is that gun control advocates are more closely aligned with the Nazis' enemies rather than the Nazis themselves.
Pragmatic-
I am all for more enforcement of the laws that are on the books, but after you arrest someone, there is no need to literally kick someone in the face. Be the professional you are, regardless of how @!$%#ty a day you are having and do your job. Now tell the truth: Can you identify what laws could have prevented this crime?
We don't know anything yet, other than something happened.
@ Ken
You forgot that democrat Jose Salazar of Colorado recommended in February that women should protect themselves with a rape whistle.
Oh yeah & Homeland Security said in January that you can protect yourself with a pair of scissors.
Please Mr. Evil Bad guy can you wait a second before you rape & kill me. I need to run to the other room to get my scissors & rape whistle.
Good luck with that. At least you'll be able to give the bad guy a good laugh before he butchers you.
Or you could just say "Mr. Rapist, could you please wait while I load my gun and take the safety off, please, please, pretty please."
The reality check is that rapists usually do not announce their intentions. I think that locking up all republicans would probably prevent 90% or the rapes, but that is just my opinion based on the last election cycle and a lot of the posts on this thread.
LOL.JcN,what an amazingly naive post
Or, you could just pull the already loaded firearm while simultaneously taking the safety off and shoot the bastard before his mind can even comprehend that you have one. It's called the element of surprise. Remember, he is focused on ripping the woman's clothes off and using his gun to do his dirty deed.
In fact, if the woman is really quick thinking, she can say "don't hurt me, I'll cooperate." Takes her pants and panties off and while he is getting some eye candy, reaches to take off her shirt and grabs the firearm from the bra holster. He is relaxing and lets his guard down because he thinks she is going to be easy. It's amazing how much control a woman can have over a man's common sense and reflexes when he is anticipating getting a piece.
@ JCnGam
If you keep a gun unloaded then it isn't going to be much use to you for self defense is it? That's why people who use their guns for self defense keep them loaded & accessible when they are at home.
BTW, many modern semi-automatic handguns don't have manual external safeties, only internal safeties. Others have a combination of internal & external safeties (like grip safety or trigger safeties) which are automatically deactivated when you grip the gun.
But since you're such a gun expert your already knew that, right?
Gotta revise my method in paragraph 2. Pants, but not panties off first, then shirt. Don't want the bastard to die with the pleasure of having the last image of pu**y on his mind.
@ Pragmatic,
I must say, you were doing pretty good up until you had to get your dig in. How can you even begin to compare Hitler letting the German people have arms, via his law with Americans having the right to "bear" arms. The truth be told it is you and your ilk that are most aligned with Hitler's law making and letting agendas, making laws that infringe, encroach, intrude, and are unwelcome. Laws that seek to have everyone with "bare" arms.
Wasn't it Hitler, after being influenced by Henry Ford's anti-Semitic book the International Jew, who made it so the Jews weren't able to be citizens and thus enabled/promoted their persecution there as well?
But NY has strict gun laws, how is this possible?
Yeah ! A POLICE STATE, MARSHALL LAW put into place. Just what the NRA and the MGR'R want in place.
Land of the FREE FOLKS !!!
The supreme nazi commander (Bloomberg) put a hit out on them because he heard there were 4 people at a car wash drinking 17oz sodas...
Go NRA!!!!
You have more work to do to destroy Americans' right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
You are getting close though.
Good job.
Where's Wayne? Making fool of himself and your organization never stopped him in the past.
What does the NRA have to do with this??? You are way off base...
SMH,
:-\
Kamaaina=fool
Kamaaina:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYmdCpzADJ0
Kamaaina, you have liberty and the pursuit of happiness because of brave men who fought with their guns against a tyrannical government/Monarchy. The NRA is trying to protect our rights from uninformed people like yourself. So, you think gangbangers and criminals follow laws and buy their weapons legally????
Kamaaina is another foreign interloper with and agenda to incite, divide, and disarm the American people.
These interlopers are easy to spot because of their poor language and grammer skills; they type with accents.
Happy trolling interloper!
In the last 6 mos, 292 murdered in Chicago,,,but, does Barry care?
Hey ThrowDown,,,where the hell did you dig up that crap?
In the last 6 mos, 292 murdered in Chicago,,,but, does Barry care?
Hey Hang WTF do you mean? DO you remember Barry wanting to do something, because the death of a child and his promise to do something about.......but the NRA used this as a "See he wants to take your guns away" ! don't be a flippin' idiot. Like he doesn't care. If there is anyone who doesn't care it's the NRA. What about OUR right to Life. Stray bullets can kill, too. Innocents get killed just as easily. Geez, you guys are idiots.
Barry only cares about murdering unborn children ala PP.
Pro lifers are hypocrites, they can't wait to put a needle in your arm once you leave the birth canal.
Terri, responsible gun owners make up a huge majority of gun owners. Most people will never fire upon another human being unless absolutely necessary.
Obama is using only the saddest of stories to promote a general disarming of the people. Look at it however you like, but common sense laws are not what is being proposed. Restricting responsible buyers and owners does nothing to address the people who want to kill others with a gun.
People have no problem proving they are good citizens when purchasing a gun. Criminals will get guns by other means regardless of how many rules are put in place on those who impose no threat.
The problem comes when these "common sense laws" have no effect. Then what? More common sense laws? Letting the government chip away at our rights is a serious problem. Once they have a standard set, they can use that standard to impose more restrictions to remove our rights completely.
When the 2nd amendment goes, so goes the rest of our rights.
Yash, there is obviously something wrong with someone who thinks it is alright to abort babies, then turns around and marches in a rally to demand an end to the death penalty.
Personally, I am pro choice. It is none of my business what people do with their own body, and they are the ones who ahve to live with it.
I am also for the death penaly. If anything, it should be a more swift course of action upon conviction. One review to see if sufficient evidence existed for the case to be proven beyond a doubt, then death for the murderer.
You're a simpleton. You think there weren't any abortions when it was illegal? Making abortion illegal has only 1 result; it allows the rich to get abortions easily.
By the way have you adopted a child or do you simply wear your righteous indignation on your sleeve, shoving down other people's throats?
Terri is a foreign interloper with an agenda to incite, divide, and disarm America.
Fear mongering and generalizing deflections are his tools of choice; oh and demeaning name calling is also in the mix as well.
Happy trolling, try not to scare your prospective catch too much!
upstate vs NYC .....
BS
this area is not Upstate. Upstate is the region from roughly Buffalo to Syracuse and then halfway south towards Pennsylvania. People who haven't lived there think anything north of NYC is "Upstate". The area around Herkimer is actually called the "Leather Stocking" region.
No, the leather stocking region has been officially dropped. Anything north of NYC has always been upstate but actually, it is called the Mohawk Valley. Want to go a round of history? Buffalo is considered western NY, Syracuse, central NY, as well as Utica, which is only about 14 miles from this tragedy. Plattsburg is in the north country, Albany capital district but it is ALL upstate.
I suppose now the NRA will want barbers and car wash attendants to carry guns at work.
No, since those stores and parts of town are NOT a gun-free zone, either responsible law-abiding citizens that own guns should be afforded the right to self-defense or have the police force of those towns do their jobs of protecting innocent law-abiding citizens.
Instead, the police responded to the crime AFTER it occurred, unrolled yellow police tape, took witness statements, and filed the report.
Just another statistic.
How should the police have responded to the crime BEFORE it occurred? I think you're confusing reality with "Minority Report."
NO I'M NOT. I am not talking Minority Report @!$%#. I am talking about the cop that sits on his fat ass in his cruiser posted up in a dank corner of the town thinking he is in a strategic location to be able to respond to a call rather than making his presence known- driving around town, getting out of his cruiser, and walking a beat, talking to the people of the town to learn more about where there is crime happening or where seedy people congregate. In doing so, THAT IS CALLED MAKING A PRESENCE. I am not talking about just one cop, I am talking about the entire police shift, EVERY SHIFT. Somehow law enforcement training has turned from walking a beat and knowing how to do hand-to-hand combat to subdue an assailant to now being how to fill out the correct forms and knowing the proper protocols/etiquette on how to talk to a subject without offending them and getting the department sued. IT'S MORE THAN THAT. When they can't run and catch up to a perpetrator that is running away, that police officer has a problem. Rarely do you hear about a police officer at the right place at the right time to prevent a crime from happening. I believe there were two police officers walking a beat in NYC who shot the dude that shot his boss. The problem is those police officers were such lousy shots they wounded innocent bystanders in the process and that was within 20 feet of each other!
So if cops aren't doing copwork the old fashioned way, then at give the innocent, law-abiding citizen the right to self-defense and give them the right to carry concealed or even open carry. If the cop won't be there to save their lives, let them save their own lives...
And keep Hollywood out of this; I am willing to debate or argue or insult like the rest of them, but if you fail to think it all the way through then just ask and I can elaborate further. Otherwise you are opening yourself up for retaliation...
they must have been running a special haircut and wash for responsible gun owners.
Those extensive gun laws are working great, the innocent were disarmed effectively.
Lot of guns in those neighborhoods pal. Stop being stupid.
John knows his sh1t. Crazy is just talking out his a$$.
Nobody was disarmed as a result of those laws.
not disarmed only dispatched.
@ Pragmatic,
However, those who own a semi-automatic, that have certain characteristics, have been informed that they are now illegal to use and/or purchase and the amount of ammo being in the weapon has limited as well; an infringement, encroachment, intrusion, and were unwelcome by many citizens.
Happy trolling!
Almost on the doorstep of Remington Arms!
God you're a fool. Were you born that way or did your parent drop you on your butt (head) during infancy?
??? I was stating a fact bonehead. Draw your own conclusions if there really are any to be drawn. What a friggin' weasel.
John was stating a fact; The old Remington Arms plant is (was?) in Ilion, NY between Mohawk and Herkimer. My late father in law was a gunsmith there until he retired years ago.
Oh my crap crasher your first post almost made me pee my pants I was laughing so hard!
oops! I meant Ilion was between Mohawk and Frankfort, Many years since I was there!
its a monster place now,I was up there two years ago. Easily a thousand guns or more a day.Enough to arm a whole town of cretins and their kids and they can have a free for all.
Joe donahue
You are full of sh1t...I to live in upstate and know the area very well..Its funny that the farmers has to spray paint their cows with the word COW on their side so that you dumb city slickers can tell the different between a Cow and a Deer when deer season opens..