Would one condone male/female tent accommodations? I think not, especially given the ages of such young people and their raging hormones.

Since the definition of homosexuality is a sexual attraction to members of the same gender, sharing a tent would be unwise and asking for trouble.

Basically, you are saying that gays are not capable of being in the same room with the same gender without the strong, overpowering urge to rape them.

You're right on this, but his first point still stands.

Would you let 14 or 15 year old boys and girls share tents together overnight?

You're right on this, but his first point still stands.

Would you let 14 or 15 year old boys and girls share tents together overnight?

That is not exactly an equivalent comparison. 14 or 15 year old boys and girls are likely to be attracted to one another. This boy is the only openly gay one in the troop. It's highly doubtful that there would be a mutual attraction between the boys. And, as The Company stated, just because the boy is gay does not mean he is going force himself on his tentmate. Being gay does not make you a monster. They could very possibly be friends, both inside and outside scouts, so why would the boy want to hurt the other?

Homosexual boys are more interested in OTHER homosexual boys. If you trained your kids right, you could put boys and girls together in tents and not worry. And I should like to point out, if you WOULD worry, then it's going to happen anyway (sex that is). So stop worrying so much.

Can a gay boy scout share a tent with another boy? Um, they already do, don't they? You want to discriminate against them because they have the strength to own up to it honestly? I think it may send a conflicting message to the child considering "honesty" is supposed to be one of the boy scouts oaths, correct? Or am I wrong on this? After all, this comes directly from the Boy Scouts promises:

"Being morally straight means to live your life with honesty, to be clean in your speech and actions, and to be a person of strong character."

Lexus,

A sin against your god perhaps... not mine. Nature? I think not. Nature makes no sin. Period.

If a straight boy scout doesn't want to share a tent with a gay boy scout, is he going to be sued for being biased?

I support gay rights but I'm going to say no. Just like I'd say no to a boy and a girl sharing the same tent at their age.

Timothy1Mil

No way on earth would I allow my son to tent with a known homosexual. Homosexuality is deviant, demonic behavioral. Never.

So if the homosexual was unknown, that would be okay right? In other words, if you didn't know the kid was a homosexual, that would be okay with you.

I personally don't agree with homosexuality because it is morally wrong...but I would rather have my son with another gay scout than a gay scout leader. Mainly because they would be with someone of their own age and I am sure that they would be fine...as with an adult they are weaker and can't always fight off improper behavior. That happens every where...not only in scouts but in the church and unfortunately at homes. My opinion,only!

lexus114,

"it will always be a sin against god and nature!!"

Tell me how it is possible to sin against nature. Although we often speak of "mother nature", that's just a figure of speech. Nature is not really a person. Besides, being gay is perfectly natural for gay people. For them to behave otherwise would be unnatural.

*

what a query that is .....

OMG the ignorance of you homophobes is just astounding. Therefore I will attempt to educate you:

A gay male is ONLY attracted to other GAY males. A gay male is NOT going to be attracted, or come on to, a heterosexual male or any female.

STOP being so ignorant. Gay and lesbian people have been around since the beginning of humanity. Stop your irrational fear of them. This coming from a happily married heterosexual.

There is only ONE God. And just because the Bible is old does not make it invalid.

Prove it.

The reason the Bible is invalid is because it is a book on contradictions and falsehoods. It is a book of symbolism that people use to control other people. Of course you probably think that there is enough water on the Earth to actually create a flood that covers it entirely.

Maybe I am being too realistic, but haven't they already been doing this with boys who have not come out? Or boys who have not realized their orientation?

Isn't this the same complaint about military members sharing barracks... even though they have ALWAYS shared barracks with homosexuals?

So, from what I understand, if someone says the words "I'm gay", that suddenly makes it unacceptable to share a tent. But if they do not utter those two words, then it is acceptable? So saying two words will completely change everything? Wow... people give words far too much power.

Everyone knows that heterosexual males cannot help themselves from raping females when left alone in their presence which is why we seperated them from the girl scouts thus it is only natural for these people to also believe that homosexual males cannot stop themselves from raping males when left alone in their presence. That makes a lot of sense to me. Gotta keep the male heteros segrated from the rest of the population. This isn't about segregating the homosexuals, it is about enforcing the segregation of the male heteros.

You all twist things to make it all in your favor, but it isnt. Its just plain wrong. And I have never seen two dogs ,or Cats or any other animal try and have sex together with the same gender. Nice try

Wow. Perhaps you need to step outside your apartment once and a while. I have seen dogs, cats, and goats all engage in homosexual activity. That's the kind of thing you see when you are in nature and not buried in a book that commands how you think.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't give him a brain.

And I have never seen two dogs ,or Cats or any other animal try and have sex together with the same gender. Nice try.

Well then you're awfully sheltered. I have 2 male cats, and the only thing keeping them from actually having sex is that they are both neutered. Doesn't stop them from trying, though!

Your the ignorant one`s. Thats why you all feel so compelled to make everyone else see what you are doing as being okay with God. And it is natural, and all this other nonsense.

I have no need to make anything seem okay to anyone to please an non-existent invisible being. Also, I am a married heterosexual. I just have this funny belief that people have the right to lives their lives how they wish if they aren't hurting anyone. Go ahead and keep being a controlled sheep Lexus. You obviously have no ability to run your life yourself and need it guided.

lexus114

So you are saying you have never seen a male dog try to hump on another dog,or a person's leg, or about anything else for that matter? You have not been around dogs very much then.

What I find utterly amazing, is that for all their talk of purity and religious doctrine, all these people think about is sex. SEX! SEX! That big three letter word that most young kids don't even consider unless confronted by GROWN-UPS. Grownups? What happened to teaching tolerance, respect, ethics? By, are these "adults" having a huge impact on the future generation: intolerance, fear, Sad! For some reason you're all waiting for that cute little kid to suddenly turn into a rapist. Pedophiles are in fact, "normal" heterosexual men, usually married. Geez folks, take the time to learn more than the whispered myths floating around.

Sex is an option in the Boy Scouts? You should be asking this of the Priests and Catholic Church where this a greater likely hood of this being an issue. The truth hurts, I know.

Your the ignorant one`s. Thats why you all feel so compelled to make everyone else see what you are doing as being okay with God.

I'll go ahead and let God judge gay individuals as he sees fit, and for my part I'll just try to love my neighbor as myself, as the Bible tells me to do.

And I have never seen two dogs ,or Cats or any other animal try and have sex together with the same gender. Nice try.

I have a female cat and a female dog. The female dog constantly humps the female cat. So not only is she gay, she is into inter-species erotica. That is like "super, ultra abomination"... or it's just nature, either way.

Although we are convinced that the female dog humps the female cat because she is a wiener dog, and doesn't realize that being a wiener does not mean she has a wiener. Oh well, that's nature for you.

lexus114,

"Thats why you all feel so compelled to make everyone else see what you are doing as being okay with God."

If it's not okay with God, then I'm sure God is capable of dealing with the situation. We don't call him the Almighty for nothing. So there is no reason at all why you should concern yourself about it. Just leave it up to God. I haven't heard God complaining though. It's always people who complain.

I think its ridiculous to equate a homosexual male to a female. Do homosexual males have female genitalia? No. Are heterosexual males generally more attracted to them? Again, no. Aside from the fact that homosexual males are generally more attracted to males than females from a nature perspective, there is no more similarity between homosexual males and females than there is between straight males and females. Again, or am I missing something? It sounds as if the only problem is with paranoid males and females who don't realize that homosexuals were created as normal as heterosexuals.

A gay male is ONLY attracted to other GAY males. A gay male is NOT going to be attracted, or come on to, a heterosexual male or any female.

Listen, I'm in favor of allowing homosexuals into Scouts, but that statement is not true. I'm 100% straight, and have had gay men hit on me. But I've never had anyone force me into something I didn't want to do.

Patrick 1.8

Your post is an attempt to dispute my assertions but only ends up generally agreeing with it.

First, putting young people of the opposite sex in the same tent in no way assures there will be any "hanky panky" but it could nonetheless happen, hence the wisdom of not doing this and creating such an enabling scenario.

The same goes for tenting homosexual and heterosexual boys. There doesn't mean there will automatically be incidents, but the same wisdom with the male/female tenting applies here as well. It is better to not do this to avoid any such temptations.

As for your alluding to stats, even assuming they're not contrived, my statement that pedophiles come in both heterosexual and homosexual proclivities is correct. If you wish to assert that most pedophiles are one sexual orientation or the other, go right ahead. It doesn't change anything.

As for your rather snide assertion that little girls in my neighborhood should beware, I suppose this implies you've labeled me a heterosexual.

jac 1.26

A gay male is ONLY attracted to other GAY males? What color is the sky in your world? You ought to be hearing a lot about this nonsensical statement from other posters.

jac:

A gay male is ONLY attracted to other GAY males. A gay male is NOT going to be attracted, or come on to, a heterosexual male or any female.

I hope you're being sarcastic, especially with the ignorance comment. If not, then you really need to go talk to the gay males that have come on to me in the past, set them straight..(er, no pun intended) and tell them that they weren't attracted to me.

Saying a gay male is only going to be attracted to other gay males is false. It is like saying that I, as a heterosexual male, will not be attracted to a beautiful woman if I find out she's a lesbian. Sorry, I don't think it works like that.

gregorio,

"Why not ask Obama if he would allow his daughter to share the same room with lesbian in the girl scout."

What does this have to do with Obama? Is he in charge of the Boy Scouts now? That's quite a step down from being President of the United States, don't you think?

Mickey,

Ain't it the truth. God Almighty.

And another thing....STOP equating pedophiles with gays. The VAST MAJORITY of pedohiles are heterosexual men, often times married men.

@ jac-931625

You say that "A gay male is ONLY attracted to other GAY males. A gay male is NOT going to be attracted, or come on to, a heterosexual male or any female."

Seems as though YOUR ignorance is just astounding....therefore I will attempt to educate you:

I am totally straight and yet have had numerous homosexual males come on to me - to the point of telling me that they would love it if I would be willing to do some pretty specific acts with them.... I also have other straight friends who I have been with at a bar and witnessed homosexual guys trying to pick them up. Finally, I have a good friend who is openly homosexual and he admits to regularly "hitting on" heterosexual men....

....so who is the ignorant one is now.....

I remember the scouts... we would go camping with signs that said "No Girls Allowed". We also discussed how girls were "icky" and had "cooties".

Then we all wore neckerchiefs, a sash, high-rise shorts... and we all learned how to sew "flair" (or badges) on our own sash.

Yup... nothing but straight boys, dressed in questionable styles, talking about how much they don't like girls.

Oh the irony.

A gay male is ONLY attracted to other GAY males. A gay male is NOT going to be attracted, or come on to, a heterosexual male or any female.

Jac, I don't know where you grew up but that's not a fact. I know my son was approached by gays adults and kids a few different times when he was growing up. One of the gay men who approached him later died of AIDS.

I as his mother have been approached by lesbians.

Just like we are approached by people of the opposite sex who are attracted to us, it is common that homosexuals approach many straights as well.

bibol,

"I believe homosexuality is deviant way of life. Adult males do not share tents with boy scouts."

What is the point you are trying to make there? The article is talking about gay boys sharing a tent with heterosexual boys; not with adult males sharing a ten with the boys. There are gay children, you know. Or didn't you?

Lexus is one of those christians who denounce homosexuality as a sin...but supports war, the death penalty, and the vast accumulation of personal wealth, and the whole time, still doesn't see the irony of that position.

mguy,

LOVE IT! You made my day! Hilarious!

lexus114,

yes i have seen animals mate with others of the same sex -we used to raise pigeons, and there were two male that got together and never separated. and also i've seen this with our 2 male iguanas and 2 female zebra finches. does that answer your question? maybe you should get out more and observe nature closer -you're trapped inside your little denial-bubble that only leaves you with a handful of ignorant thoughts

gregorio,

"Mickey Obama is the reason we have all this. You forgot his campaign Inauguration with all his gay support."

Obama may support the Gay Rights movement, but let me assure you, both gays and the Gay Rights movement have been around a hell of a lot longer than the Obama administration.

trout

I am totally straight and yet have had numerous homosexual males come on to me

Perhaps you should re-evaluate the attire you wear out of the house. As a tip, I would leave the bike shorts and neckerchief at home.

Go start your own organization. Call it whatever the hell you want. Quit trying to change religious based organizations to tolerate and accept your perverted lifestyle.

An no one can tell me that a gay man isn't attracted to another straight male, that is one of the most retarded thing that I have ever heard from a gay proponent.

Go start the buttscouts of merica, it's a free country......so go and be free.

Go start your own organization. Call it whatever the hell you want. Quit trying to change religious based organizations to tolerate and accept your perverted lifestyle.

An no one can tell me that a gay man isn't attracted to another straight male, that is one of the most retarded thing that I have ever heard from a gay proponent.

Go start the buttscouts of merica, it's a free country......so go and be free.

AND NOW, FOR THE ANSWERS....

A gay male troop leader, along with another adult leader, is taking a group of boys on a camping trip following the youth protection guidelines of two-deep leadership. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the gay adult leader to take adolescent boys on an overnight camping trip?

Adult pedophiles overwhelmingly associate themselves as "straight", not gay. Jerry Sandusky, for example, was a married father of six children of his own. There is no conclusive study that gay men are any more interested in adolescent boys than straight men are.

A troop is chartered by an organization that does not believe homosexuality is wrong and allows gays to be ministers. The youth minister traditionally serves as the Scoutmaster for the troop. The congregation hires a youth minister who is gay. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for this youth minister to serve as the Scoutmaster?

You don't need to start a Gay Scout program, you just need to give NAMBLA some Camping gear. I say the Boy Scouts are right to keep Homosexual Scout Masters out as well as Scouts. If you are Gay and have a problem with their policy then you can go elsewhere.

And heterosexual raging-hormone boys don't do things in tents, sleepovers, etc.??? Get real.

Lexus, while I like what you are saying, I have seen animals of the same sex try to mount each other so that isn't a good argument. My faith tells me homosexuality is wrong and I agree with you there and I in no way would put my child in a situation where he was uncomfortable.

I can't understand where this is such an over the top huge issue that we can freely debate it and let it monopolize so much of our debate time, when gangs are accounting for more than 48% of all crime nationwide and more than 90% in many cities and regions throughout the country. This should just be a non issue. So what if someone is gay, I DON'T need to know about it. It is none of my business and doesn't hurt me or them for it to be kept in the home. The problem is that we spend an inordinate amount of time discussing this crap when we should be finding ways to cure the real ills of this nation. Why is it so damned important for them to have to flaunt there preferences in every aspect of life? Is it because they have to be recognized for what they are? Is it because they insist on being the same mainstream fish as everyone else? Is it because they insist on being allowed to infiltrate every aspect of hetero life? I have news for you, If they want infiltrate every aspect of hetero life, then be hetero. Otherwise forget it. And just STFU already. We have gangs murdering people left and right, pumping drugs into our neighborhoods, assaulting law abiding citizens, kidnapping our teen boys and girls for slavery,(check that one our for yourselves), and creating whole areas of fear and depridation for the citizens who deserve to live free of such atrocities. The politicians do not address this issue, (they would rather take away your rights). The police do not address it,(they would rather arrest regular people for a traffic ticket than enter the mouth of the dragon that is gang land to do their real jobs). And the rest of us sit here and discuss this crap.

Wow, no wonder we are so f-d up.

Nothing against homosexuals (the obligatory some of my best friends are gay) but # 1 I am hetero with 2 kids and a beautiful wife and I get hit on by homosexuals even when they know I am hetero. #2 every one here pro homosexual, you are arguing it is natural by pointing out that small minded "animals" do it so why not? Again no problem with any orientation other than pedophile, family relations, necro and bestiality, BUT ANIMALS DO IT SO ITS OK. is not an argument you want to get behind. Just saying

The headline question is a moot point because little Timmy is always first to pitch a tent in camp.

To all those saying their pets are gay because they "hump" others of the same sex...

That is showing dominance... (Alfa dog establishment) not a sexual urge.

Contrarian001

Why is it so damned important for them to have to flaunt there preferences in every aspect of life?

I know, right?

Like, just the other day I had a knock on my door... my own damn property... and two women were behind the door, with a flyer in hand, wanting to "talk to me" about converting to their lifestyle. Why do they have to shove it in my face and try to convert me? On my own damn property at that.

Then I left the house on Sunday morning, and this same group was ringing bells to let everyone know that they were meeting. Why do they have to let everyone know? We don't care.

And then, I find out that my work is closed on a day specifically celebrating their holiday. Why should we celebrate their day? It's their day, can't they keep it to themselves?

I mean... these homosexuals are getting out of control with "forcing their lifestyle" down our throats.

Oh wait... that was NOT homosexuals forcing their lifestyle on me, that was CHRISTIANS.

Sorry... my bad.

Continue telling us all how homosexuals are the ones who "flaunt" their lifestyle in your face.

A gay male is ONLY attracted to other GAY males. A gay male is NOT going to be attracted, or come on to, a heterosexual male or any female.

Where in the world did you get this from???

I don't know what jac was thinking when he said gay males are only attracted to other gay males, but whatever.

As a gay male myself, I've had straight male roommates/friends. Strangely I never raped any of them! And as you would expect, gay guys are not attracted to every guy in their presence. I for one am pretty selective in who I find attractive.

In fact one of my attractive straight roommates who of course knew I was gay seemed to very much like showing himself off (walking around shirtless, etc...) knowing full well that I would be checking him out. It was pretty obvious what he was doing. LOL. I can only assume he enjoyed knowing that he was being found attractive even if by another guy. Or maybe he just liked teasing me. Of course given that he was straight nothing ever happened between us, and I certainly never tried.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a gay scout sharing a tent with a straight scout. (I might not want two openly gay scouts sharing a tent together). Scouts should learn boundries anyhow. That will serve them well in life. And straight scouts should learn not to be fearful or agahst that someone who's gay finds them attractive. And hey, it might give them insight into how girls/women might feel about being the object of one's attraction from someone they are not interested in. What straight guy couldn't benefit from learning that!

Ultimatey we need to STOP being so hung up about sex and sexuality in society. It's not healthy. In fact it's downright neurotic.

William Morrison-6819231

"Lawsuits, homo rape are just a few problems this issue will have!"

Mr. Morrison, may I point out how f*cking' gay your hat looks? If you ask me, the whole premise of camping without girls is pretty gay, and just being in scouts is likely to create an atmosphere of homosexuality. In my opinion, a straight scout is a lonely scout.

Parents don't want to allow boys and girls to have sleepovers together because they are afraid of what might happen. But then the same parents who only allow same gender sleepovers wonder why their kids are gay. They should just ban sleepovers and make all events one day. And get rid of summer camps. Something could happen in the cabins.

dan,

"Again no problem with any orientation other than pedophile, family relations, necro and bestiality"

By "family relations" you mean "incest", don't you? You had the right words for everything else, but you got that one wrong. Unless, of course, you are opposed to every sort of family relationship whatsoever. Mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, nieces, etc. :)

Query me this:

1. Few years back I read an article where bi-sexual men were being persecuted to leave a gay men sports team.

2. Racial Minorities have their own clubs (naacp, la raza, etc, etc)

3. Different orientations of the LGBT community have their own clubs.

4. Women have their own clubs.

But if you're a white heterosexual male, by god you have to accept anyone and everyone into your club.

As a white heterosexual male, I'm sick as @!$%# for be persecuted because of my race and sexual orientation.

You liberals are the most @!$%#ing hypocritical, racist people I know.

@darkshadows "and i have seen animals engage in homosexual activity.....". So with that logic, i have seen lions engage in infanticide. Shall we accept that as normal in society as welll??

I guess the motto of the Boy Scouts is "Ignorance is Bliss!" They act like if they change their policies then things will change. They seem to be totally ignorant of the fact that there have been gay kids and gay troop leaders in the Boy Scouts since the beginning. It's just that the official policy has been "If you are not straight then lie about it and pretend you are straight." So much for the part about honesty.

As some have pointed out, gays aren't going to try to come on to straights. Also, gay adults aren't going to come on to boys. Pedophiles? Yes! But, gay? No! And pedophiles aren't going to "come out" because of any official change in BSA policies on gays.

Quite frankly, I'd trust to the safety of my son in a tent with a gay boy a heck of a lot more than I'd trust to the safety of my daughter in a tent with a straight boy.

Isn't this the same complaint about military members sharing barracks... even though they have ALWAYS shared barracks with homosexuals?

Not even remotely, that is a completely pathetic attempt at an analogy. You are comparing adults who understand sexuality to children. The people who compared male and female were much more on target. You may as well have stuck with the stupid arguments some have made about rape.

This is not about rape, I didn't read every comment, but didn't see anyone mention the gay raping the other child, and if they did then they are as much of an idiot as those making analogies like you did or this idiocy;

Basically, you are saying that gays are not capable of being in the same room with the same gender without the strong, overpowering urge to rape them.

Saying they shouldn't share a tent is because if the child knows he is gay then he is aware of sexuality, the other child may not be. They are children and may do things that you wouldn't expect because they are innocent, and the gay child may not understand that he is doing something wrong if he acts upon impulses, the same way two children may if the are opposite sex, which is why oppsoite sex children wouldn't be allowed to share a tent either.

Enough of the BS arguments being made, this is completely rational to not want your child in a tent with someone who may have a sexual impulse towards them; boy/boy girl/boy girl/girl, it's irrelevant.

AlexM - I understand your frustration, however the uprising has been caused by the white heterosexual male having the best of everything and influence over everything for a long, long time.

I think most of you are missing the point. The question isn't so much would you let 14 year old straight boy tent with a 14 year old gay boy.

There are two much better questions. Would you let two 14 year old gay boys tent together?

Which is no different than a 14 year old boy and a 14 year old girl tenting together.

And is it OK to put a 14 year straight boy in a situation were they may feel uncomfortable?

Which is really no different than putting forcing a girl to tent with a boy.

Before you go calling me names, I don't think a gay boy is some sort of monster that can't control himself around other boys. I think he a boy like any other just attractive to somebody different.

If you are Gay and have a problem with their policy then you can go elsewhere.

I'd have to agree with that. But, those who advocate a homophobic policy for the Boy Scouts can't, at the same time, complain when corporations eliminate their donations, public schools and municipalities drop their support and the organization is pilloried in the press.

The Supreme Court said that the Boy Scouts had a right to a policy of their choosing, but it never said that others had to tolerate it.

"If you are not straight then lie about it and pretend you are straight."

Why would kids in the boyscouts be talking about who they want to have sex with? Don't boys that age usually talk about how girls have cooties?

Mickey, you got me. Got pulled away on a call and completely spaced it. Touche'

"I am totally straight and yet have had numerous homosexual males come on to me"

people will take their chances with a person they feel attracted to -think the 'bar scene', so you won't take a chance with the cute girl, make eye contact, smile, and offer to buy her a drink? it is up to her to accept or reject it, the same goes for yourself as well -unless, of course, the guy tried to force you down and jump you right there... otherwise your argument is invalid

@AlexM-3929653

But if you're a white heterosexual male, by god you have to accept anyone and everyone into your club.

But what you fail to mention and accept is that the aforementioned groups (you mentioned) don't deny membership to White, Heterosexual males..... Where is the discrimination again?? The hypocracy??, the racism??

LMBAO@Whiteguyragin'

"it will always be a sin against god and nature!!"

After reading this comment, and the rest of those church taught thoughts you posted above lexus, I can now see why humanity is in the state that it is. I hope for the good of all humanity, that you never claim to be a "good Christian". Why? Because, if this is how a "good Christian" thinks, humanity will never grow spiritually as it should. You are taught to build a wall, so high, and so thick around you by the church, that you even fail to see what is going on within the same church that taught you how to build that wall. You fail to see the corruption within the very core of those running the church, even when it is brought out into the open. That means they taught you well then. Your taught to not like gay people, yet, you don't mind taking your family to a church to be taught the word of God by someone who may have raped a child? Good luck with that reality. By the way, if you would, keep that reality right there with you, there is no need to share it with the rest of the world.

ohwell

So with that logic, i have seen lions engage in infanticide. Shall we accept that as normal in society as welll??

Even when lions commit "infanticide", they still have better morals and treat each other better than humans do.

I have never seen any animal commit genocide on another because of some bull-sh** idea like religion. Yet we humans sit here fighting and killing each other over some f***ing fairy tale about an invisible sky man who used to talk to nomads thousands of years ago.

You would do well not to compare humans to animals... especially humans like YOU... you will lose every time.

jac-931625---You are truly ignorant to think gay men are not attracted to straight men.

mguy-478---Just a note if you want to work on Sunday go ahead, it is a holiday as declared by the US government because people of highly moral fiber wanted people to work seven days a week, twelve hours a day. Religion in this case was used by the lawyers to justify the shorter workweek. As far as the people knocking on doors, how did they force you to believe anything? They made their pitch and left I would bet and you are angry because they knocked on your door or that they exist and do not believe as you. Typical atheist, liberal nutjob, I believe therefore you cannot.

mguy-478---"You would do well not to compare humans to animals... especially humans like YOU... you will lose every time" ---Well aren't we special and I think proves my point perfectly

pssst! don't tell anyone else but the agenda is to build acceptability to a otherwise unacceptable social behavior. the people that desire to deviate from the norm will say anything to get your approval even if it is the farthest thing from the truth, the truth is the more deviated society becomes the more normal deviates become its that simple now bend over and submit. then and only then will we all be normal. yes if everyone is gay then we can label it as normal straight will be considered queer. the best way to begin is change the terms in the language that sets them out like Deviate meaning a different approach or method don't use that word it doesn't sound nice just say enlightened, then the word queer means different or peculiar, mustn't say that the dictionary is off center just say Gay meaning happy and free that better describes them as a superior and kind person. its essential to separate a gay child molester from the main group and blame their actions on straight people, that was taken right out of the liberals hand book,"always blame the opposition". I could go on all day on this subject but work awaits maybe latter. all you need to understand is they want in so they can change the BSA for their own reasons. remember the more Gay people the merrier so tiptoe through the tulips with them. come on people lets all be Gay!!!

alve, he was talking about the other person that said gays only hit on gays. So his argument was completely valid.

My friends brother is gay and does the first thing you said, I have been out with him when he has bought drinks for guys, and a couple of times the guys have gotten pretty pissed, and he reply always was, you should be flattered you are good looking and got a free drink, would you accept one for a girl you didn't find attractive?

You would do well not to compare humans to animals... especially humans like YOU... you will lose every time

But those who argue for gay marriage or being born gay compare humans to animals all the time when someone says homosexuality is unnatural. The argument is that "there are gay monkeys." So why is the quote you have issue with less true?

It is actually the perfect rebuttal to the "born gay" argument.

I do like how you went the religion route because you didn't like the scientific argument though, really shows you are incapable of having an honest discussion.

alve, he was talking about the other person that said gays only hit on gays. So his argument was completely valid.

Have also had plenty of gay guys hit on me, we both get a laugh out of it, they get embarrassed, more often than not I get a free drink out of it, no harm no foul. But gay guys do hit on straight guys.

I have never seen any animal commit genocide on another because of some bull-sh** idea like religion.

No just over stuff like territory and breeding rights.

If gay boyscouts can share tents with straight boyscouts, then why not just have co-ed tents altogether with boyscouts and girlscouts? I really don't see the difference.

I think the gay boyscout should pitch his own tent.

Irvmani

Wow... way to completely miss the point.

Here, let me spell if out for you. People like YOU constantly complain that gay people "force their lifestyle" on you because they exist. They walk down the street, they kiss in public, they want equal rights... and in your eyes, and people like you... that is "forcing" something on you.

However, when YOU Christians literally come to my door and try to convert me, you see nothing wrong with that.

So let's recap for you, because you obviously have a problem with critical thinking skills.

Homosexuals simply existing on the planet: Christians consider that "forcing a lifestyle" on them.

Christians coming to your door and attempting to convert you: You do NOT consider that "forcing a lifestyle" on you.

So one group existing is "forcing" something on you... another group coming to your property and trying to convert you is NOT "forcing" anything on you.

Do you really fail to see the hypocrisy there? This is not a hard concept. Shall I get out finger puppets to act it out for you?

AlexM - I understand your frustration, however the uprising has been caused by the white heterosexual male having the best of everything and influence over everything for a long, long time.

I wasn't alive nor was I the cause of the history in this country. The LGBT community and minorities don't want equality, they want pay back. This is more than obvious in our country. I happen to have been raised that all (wo)men are born equal, yet I'm not treated that way by the very people that discriminate against me.

My sincere non-apologies if I honestly don't understand this.

As far as the boy scouts, the LGBT community can just get over it, start their own club. A very similar thing happened with the girl scouts when the liberals got in there and planned parent hood started handing out masturbation pamphlets to underage pre-teen girls and also the girl scouts pulled religion out of the club. Conservative parents that didn't agree with the new policy formed a new club called American Heritage Girls. They didn't go in to DEMANDING girl scouts bow to their beliefs.

But what you fail to mention and accept is that the aforementioned groups (you mentioned) don't deny membership to White, Heterosexual males..... Where is the discrimination again?? The hypocracy??, the racism??

They don't? You might want to research that (and also learn to spell).

On the heterosexual males more likely of being a pedophile and molesting boys, wouldn't that make him gay? Male on male! As for percentages only about 4% of the population admits being gay.

Yes animals of the same sex "hump" each other but it's still against nature, they can't reproduce which is the purpose of sex. Very few species have sex for pleasure. And animals don't make decisions, they act on instincts driven by hormones. Which describes some people too!

The BSA is a private organization so they can allow whoever they want to be a member. They are chartered by churches so I would expect them to reflect the morals of these organisations. I wonder about any church that does not denounce homosexuality, they should read the Bible. The Bible does not teach tolerance of sin, only forgiveness.

@ The Company

Umm...Statistically speaking, a scout (or any prepubescent boy, for that matter) is much more likely to be sexually assaulted by a heterosexual than he is a homosexual.

Kinda ceased being heterosexual the moment he sexually assaults a boy. Realistically speaking, the assaulter didn't just think about it moments before the act either. It's more likely that that individual fantasized about it well before the act occurred which made him more homosexually inclined well before the incident.

This is the entire point. We may not know the Boy Scout leaders intentions...but they did.

"That is not exactly an equivalent comparison. 14 or 15 year old boys and girls are likely to be attracted to one another. This boy is the only openly gay one in the troop. It's highly doubtful that there would be a mutual attraction between the boys."

Actually your wrong. You don't allow kids of the opposite sex to share a tent for the same reason public schools segregate boys and girls at all ages in rooms on overnight field trips. It's not attraction or rape that causes the segmentation. It's sex. An organization that is charged with caring for other peoples kids has a responsibility to insure a reasonable amount of care is take to safeguard that child. In the case of boys and girls it's reasonable to separate them for sleeping to avoid the hormonal urges. I don't see a difference with boys in this instance. When dealing with a boy or boys who are openly gay then reasonable care would need to be taken to keep the kids in your care for doing something they should not be doing. Heterosexuality or Homosexual makes no difference Sex as a whole should not be taking place at a school, on a school trip or at a scout camp. Will we be able to stop it? Heck no where there is a will there is a way. However there is a responsibility to take reasonable action to stop it. If that means Gay boys have to bunk alone, well then gay boys have to bunk alone.

Look, some of us are against this not because they are gay, but because they want to be OPENLY gay to adolescents. That is unacceptable no matter what their sexual orientation. The Boy Scouts is no place for openly discussing man on man sex.

And for those on the left who insist that this is about more than that, *insert your past comments on catholic priests with little boys here*. There is no difference since it's a fact that practically all catholic priests would never even imagine such an act, yet bad apples apply to the entire stereotype in that case.

honestdebate

But those who argue for gay marriage or being born gay compare humans to animals all the time

WRONG.

They DO NOT compare them to animals... they are responding to the comment that homosexuality is "not natural".

See... this is how it works:

You say that homosexuality is not natural. Meaning that it does not occur in nature.

Someone rebuttals with proof that it does occur in nature, thus invalidating your comment.

Instead of admitting that your first statement is wrong, you twist it into the "born that way" discussion.

THAT comparison was NOT the original argument, and you know it. The animal comment is ONLY in relation to the "not natural" comment, THAT'S IT.

However, trying to be the clever debater that you are, you twist their rebuttal into something it never was. You try to twist their rebuttal into a comparison of everything animals do. THAT was never the intention... the ONLY reason anyone says that is to refute the claim that it is "not natural".

really shows you are incapable of having an honest discussion.

Ironic... coming from the person who willingly twists a response into a different discussion instead of keeping the original intention and debate.

Now, do you want to have an "honest debate", kid? Think you are up for it? Think you can stay on topic? Let's find out...

The animal comparison is in relation to the "not natural" comment... THAT'S IT. So, would you like to provide any further evidence that it is "not natural", in light of the fact that it occurs in nature? Stick to the specific topic.

Or, would you like to transition to a discussion about whether they are "born that way"? That is a different point in which we start with different facts.

Come on, big boy... are you up for an actual "honest debate"? Or are you going to stick to petty tactics of twisting answers into unrelated questions? Let's see if you can stick to your name.

As far as the boy scouts, the LGBT community can just get over it, start their own club.

Ummm..... That's what the NAACP, La Raza (capitalized correctly...) and all the other clubs you so vehemently decry ARE!!!

Jack and Jill..... Miss Black America..... All those other "Racist" clubs were started because minorities had no place at the WHM table... NOW THEY ARE RACIST?? What a bag of dog-chit"!!

Hypocracy has multilpe spellings TYVM....

LMBAO!!!

I'm sorry but why do we have to make such a big deal over 2% of the population? You people afford more attention to gays than you do any other problem in this country, there are way bigger problems.

And to you people who think you are enlightened thinking that gay is ok in nature? Your argument is moronic. If animals do it its OK for Humans, animals eat their babies and their feces, so eat your babies and eat your feces because it's natural, makes just as much sense.

For those who suggest that Scouts can discriminate against any group and that those discriminated against can go elsewhere, in principle I do not disagree, BUT as a taxpayer than I stongly object to Scouts getting any kind of tax benefit (there are some councils and the BSA are tax exempt), using any kind of taxpayer paid for facility (keep out of public schools), etc. So long as my tax dollars dont go to support them fine.

Alex - "I wasn't alive nor was I the cause of the history in this country." - Me either. I wasn't alive nor did I own or participate in the owning of slaves, but we all are paying for that too.

And for those debating do anuimals exhibit homosexual behavior - yes they do - there have been studies that have shown a portion of a population of rats will be homosexual. Google it...

Holly, you may want to check into the thousands of tax exempt non profits before only scolding the BSA.

Ummm..... That's what the NAACP, La Raza (capitalized correctly...) and all the other clubs you so vehemently decry ARE!!!

Jack and Jill..... Miss Black America..... All those other "Racist" clubs were started because minorities had no place at the WHM table... NOW THEY ARE RACIST?? What a bag of dog-chit"!!

I really couldn't give a @!$%# if they do create their own club, more power to them. My point is that they shouldn't force people who don't agree with them to accept them.

NAACP: Actually harmful to the african-american community in holding them back, and very racist. I don't agree with what they stand for at this time (like most organizations, the original intentions were very noble, but they've been lost), so I don't go forcing my thoughts on equality on them.

La Raza : Open borders, amnesty, etc. I completely disagree with what they stand for, but I don't force my thoughts on them.

Girl Scouts : Completely disagree with the teachings, but, their business, I don't force my views on them.

Now we have the Boy Scouts, omg you don't accept gays, by god you WILL accept us into your organization because you're discriminating.

I could really give a @!$%# if you're gay, it honestly doesn't bother me, it's outside my yard. So it isn't that I'm homophobic or anything like that. It's the fact that you want me to respect your beliefs, while at the same time you have no respect for mine.

Me either. I wasn't alive nor did I own or participate in the owning of slaves, but we all are paying for that too.

And that isn't right. Equality will never happen until that is truly what people want, I happen to want equality.

Tom - Plymouth-3672298,

i understand your point -and heck yeah, i'd accept a drink from a woman, i'd never turn down a nice chilled beer. and you are correct, it is flattering that someone singled you out in the middle of a crowd. if not interested, simply reject the person (respectfully, of course) like you'd reject any other woman or man, i just don't see what's the big turmoil

This would be the "we're trying but we're still monumental bigots and huge asshats" survey...

Ho hum, all of the usual rationalization.....it occurs naturally, it occurs in animals, those who oppose it are closet gays, and on and on and on.

I took biology and anatomy, and while folks are born with the proclivity, it's obvious that homosexuality is not in tune with the physical design and reproductive functions of the human bodies. Despite that, I don't give one damn what you all do in your own houses; but, respect the beliefs and opinions of others, and quit trying to shove your agenda down our throats. The thug approach... "you'll accept us or else", isn't going to change anybody's mind.

alve, the turmoil is that somebody said gays only hit on gays. That's it.

The issue is I don't want my daughter tenting alone with a boy, I don't want my boy tenting alone with a girl. The hard part becomes do I want my gay son tenting alone with another boy (Probably not) or even another girl (for sure not)?

So then it comes down to what do with do with the gay kids when this situation comes up.Doesn't seem fair to force them to sleep with the opposite sex, doesn't seem fair to force them to sleep with the sex they are attractive to, and it doesn't seem fair to force them to sleep by themselves.

That is a tough situation to figure out.

@averagejoe, you are obviously uninformed about what scouting is all about. First of all, it is against scouting policy to share a tent with another scout or a leader. Just because scouting does not involve girls does not mean scouting promotes homosexuality. Scouting is a program that teaches boys about courage, respect, loyalty, honesty, leadership, morals, GOD... and it helps them grow into wonderful well-rounded men who could probably kick your ass any day! If gay people want scouts, then form your own organization and leave BSA alone. If BSA decides to allow this, this will be the end of BSA, because every church sponsored BSA here has already said it will no longer sponsor scouts or allow them to use the facilities, and I will not allow my son to participate in a disgusting gay organization.

Justross comment asking a reader if they were scared about there son being converted to homosexuality was a funny one. After all aren't people who are homosexual born that way? Thats the idea they try to force down our throats. Why would a God who forbids homosexuality let some one be born homosexual?

No folks its a learned behavior. Its a choice.

Someone on this thread made the comment that Lib's were hypocritical. Hmmm, haven't we ALL been a little hypocritical from time to time? Hypocrisy is human nature. And to the "Dolts" (not to be mistaken for Adults) you know who you are, some animals DO engage in "same sex" sex. You can look that up for yourselves. And another thing, I know that no one wants to admit it or put it in print here BUT, it's a natural thing for young boys (and girls) to EXPERIMENT--sexually, with each other whether same sex or male and female. Really...it is...and some of YOU know that first hand. And you grew up being who you were meant to be; heterosexual or homosexual, lesbian, bi, or transgender.

I think the real concern should be with adult men or adult women sexually attracted and or assaulting, children--boys and girls alike. In other words, a Pedophile. Like Jerry Sandusky and the long list of Boy Scout Leaders who, like Catholic Priests, were slapped on the hand and sent to another "Pack" or "Parish" with transgressions all forgiven....blah, blah, blah.

Gay boys or girls in the Scouts? Oh, like it hasn't been going on since FOREVER?! Please! Some of you really need to just smack yourself a few times and wake up. There's a great big world out there. Really, there is.

Tom I have issues with any non-profit group that discriminates, I dont want them to have my tax $$, I dont want churches to use Public Schools either. But I limited my comment to BSA because that is what we are talking about here.

SabotAndHeat: Kinda ceased being heterosexual the moment he sexually assaults a boy. Realistically speaking, the assaulter didn't just think about it moments before the act either. It's more likely that that individual fantasized about it well before the act occurred which made him more homosexually inclined well before the incident.

You are so misinformed. An adult who likes to have sex with a child is a pedophile. If they're both male, it's still pedophilia, not homosexuality. There are (sadly) many heterosexual men who are also pedophiles and drawn to boys. Pedophilia is a form of rape, and rape is not about sex but power and control. Look at that slimeball Sandusky from Penn State. Married. Nobody would call him gay, but a pedophile, heck yes.

Gregorio -

so if you mingle with something you will end up caching a portion of it.

Does that mean that you have mingled with idiotic haters?

Andrew,

"No folks its a learned behavior. Its a choice."

Really, Andrew? Where do they teach it? Is there a university of homosexuality somewhere? Is it an undergraduate or postgraduate program? I would like to get a degree in that. At least a B.A. if not an M.A.

Homophobia is deviant, demonic behavioral problem.

ourdoc,

is that so? who are you again -and in what is that based upon? please define in your own written words -without help from your "holly book"- what's correct and incorrect. please don't infect the rest of the world with your ludicrous and unprecedented nescience.

Very enlightening thread, thank you to all who participated.

Rob-1903183

Your post won the day, thank you for everything you posted about honesty, morality, transparency, and for teaching that there's a difference between semantics and reality.

The reality is this already happens, the reality is everyone against it is basically against honesty and straightforwardness, and only because they have their own demons.

The boy scouts will be open to all races, creeds and orientations from here on on out, amen.

Bless you, bless gays and straights, bless god himself if he exists. Keep on truckin brothas and sistas and keep to the light boy scouts of america, dont bow to the hate from the right

Kid is probably already pitching a tent in his pants

I would have to say No, I would not want my son to share a tent with a homosexual.

Oh this is funny! So you are comparing gays to animals? That doesn't really help your arguments. It is unnatural and animals don't have gay $ex to be gay, they do it to show dominance! Humans are not animals. We are mammals but not animals. That was what I learned in basic science in first grade. That was public California school by the way.....

And to the "Dolts" (not to be mistaken for Adults) you know who you are, some animals DO engage in "same sex" sex. You can look that up for yourselves.

I think the real concern should be with adult men or adult women sexually attracted and or assaulting, children--boys and girls alike.

Aren't both things "natural" therefor should be socially acceptable? I mean if being gay is socially acceptable because they are born that way, then should pedophiles get the same respect using that argument?

I could care less about gays, and find pedophiles reprehensible and wish them all the torture guantanamo can put out, but I sure wouldn't contradict myself like that when trying to make an argument.

Homophobia is deviant, demonic behavioral problem.

Homophobia is used as liberally by liberals as racist, neither word has any meaning at all, all they represent is that someone disagreed with a liberal.

That was what I learned in basic science in first grade.

This is when mguy comes back and calls you a bible-thumping bigot that doesn't believe in science because you are a creationist. He likes resorting to attacking religion, I think he was drilled by a priest as a youth, or maybe he sought it as an adult.

"Ban Guns": I hate to break this to you, Dude (or Dudette), but some people ARE animals, rabid ones, ones that are evil and should be destroyed.

STOP...this is all nonsense! My wife and I were involved with Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts for over 15 years in both stateside and overseas locations. It has been, even in recent years, our experience, that we adults are injecting way too much of our judgement into this matter than letting the kids solve it.

Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying we shouldn't be involved. We should allow the kids to have the discussions. The only thing we really need to do is to prevent bullying in the process and to answer questions, if asked. It has been our experience, throughout the years, that the kids will arrive at a fair and equitable solution.

Even in the worse scout troop I was ever involved with...where the boys constantly fought over the smallest things...once we were in the field, either our own troop camp out or an area Jamboree, the boys were a team. They frequently won awards for everything from camp sight construction/layout to physical mental competitions. In short, when put to the test THEY showed team spirit. WE, the adults, just stood by and let them run the show...they were also extremely adept at dealing with their own discipline situations. Never, even when they were at their worst, did they ever allow anyone to pick on one of their own.

Trust me, the kids know how to make the right decisions.

Wow ... the homophobic comments on this thead alone speak to the wildly ignorant fears of a huge number of Americans. That's just crazy. They're not animals, people. They're perfectly capable of mature and rational decisions and behavior and control. Some of you, however, never seem to have emerged from preschool. Wow just wow.

honestdebate

This is when mguy comes back and calls you a bible-thumping bigot that doesn't believe in science because you are a creationist. He likes resorting to attacking religion, I think he was drilled by a priest as a youth, or maybe he sought it as an adult.

Ahhhh... you are too kind.

Although I notice you still have not responding to my last post, requesting an honest debate with you... the type that stays on topic and addresses each discussion without deviating to a different point.

I suppose attacking me and hurling insults instead of taking me up on my offer is another way to go about it. I'm sure your god is very proud of the way you are conducting yourself.

No, "Lexus", God didn't say anything about not being homosexual. MAN said that God said homosexuality was a sin. Man said that God said A LOT of things. "And Jesus said: "...that we should love one another as ourself..." or was it, "...do unto other's as you would have other's do unto you..."?

The Company

Basically, you are saying that gays are not capable of being in the same room with the same gender without the strong, overpowering urge to rape them

I did not see where Wet Willy said or insinuated that. What he said was...

Would one condone male/female tent accommodations? I think not, especially given the ages of such young people and their raging hormones.

Since the definition of homosexuality is a sexual attraction to members of the same gender, sharing a tent would be unwise and asking for trouble.

And that's understandable considering that a gay boy sharing a tent could possibly have an attraction to the straight boy. That in and of itself could cause an unwanted remark or gesture such as a compliment or even thorough up and down look that could make the straight boy feel uncomfortable not to mention the possibility of an unwanted touch. I can't see why pro gays don't realize that gay boys or men are attracted to the same sex and do and say the same things a heterosexual says to the opposite sex. Gays don't always hit on just gays and aren't just attracted to just gays. They are going to act and think just like any heterosexual will and have the same impulses.

You can't tell me a gay boy sleeping in a tent with a straight boy he finds good looking isn't going to arouse him! And what straight boy is going to want to sleep next to a gay boy who may be laying there with a woody all for him? I can't figure out why pro-gays and gays find it hard to believe a straight male/female would not want to possibly be put in that type of situation. That like saying a straight male can be put in a shower room with a 25 year old Raquel Welch and wouldn't look or get an urge! Yet you think a gay male can sleep next to or shower with a straight male and won't notice the straight male if he finds him attractive. That's TOTAL BS! and you people know it!!!!

And we all know a gay person would NEVER try and have sex with a hot straight person of the same sex so they can be the first same sex partner they had. We all know that no one wants to be the opposite sexes first a encounter. Why would a 21 year old male want to be the first to be with a 21 year old female or vice versa?

I had a gay guy try and pick me up once at a club. When I told him I was straight, he seemed to get turned on more and approached me a second time thinking it was cute that I was uncomfortable. Finally when I was leaving he decided to grab a handful of my ass thinking it was funny until he realized security had seen him do it. Which I was glad for. Security at Harpo's at I-94 and Chalmers in Detroit was very heavy and no non-sense. This was also in 1981 and I'm assuming this guy never did that @!$%# again as he had a pretty petrified look on his face as he was escorted towards the back of the building.

A gay sleeping a room, or tent in this case, with the same sex is no different then a straight person sleeping in the same room as the opposite sex. What is so confounding that gays or pro-gays can't see it? We wouldn't let our children sleep in a tent with the opposite sex so why would we let them sleep in a tent with someone attracted to the same sex. Isn't the difference the same? And if not....why not?

"honestly" "debate"; if you think that an adult man or an adult woman being sexually aroused by children and or having sex with them is NATURAL, well then, I think either YOU are a pedophile or you should seek some help. Period. Your argument is, "Waaay out of Whack."

Ourdoc,

I apologize -i misread your post. please forgive my insolence...

"alve" what's a "Holly Book"? Does that have something to do with a commercialized Christmas? You know, the one we celebrate on December 25th? Oh no, wait a minute, that's the date that MAN set for Christmas, right?

@darkshadows "and i have seen animals engage in homosexual activity.....". So with that logic, i have seen lions engage in infanticide. Shall we accept that as normal in society as welll??

Oh well, obviously you can't tell the difference between one act being between consenting parties and another act as a violation of rights of a child. I am assuming you are of the religious homophobes of the current age. If you want to talk about the death of children, it was the Biblical god himself that killed the firstborn in Egypt. I love people like you that can't even have a logical response because you are so warped by your paranoia and think you have a free card to judge everyone.

Wet Willy

Would one condone male/female tent accommodations? I think not, especially given the ages of such young people and their raging hormones.

Since the definition of homosexuality is a sexual attraction to members of the same gender, sharing a tent would be unwise and asking for trouble.

Of course they wouldnt. When i was that age I was sexually attracted to girls.. If one was in a tent with me, I would love to have seen her getting naked getting into her sleeping bag ect ect . Im sure she would feel very uncomfortable having guys look at her getting undressed.

So now you have gay boys in the tent or cabin with you, and your straight and now you undress in front of your gay co-scout , of course he will be attracted to you, is that fair to our straight kids ?

Why should we subject our kids to this kind of stuff ? WHy is the BS even thinking of changing their rules ? They have the SUpreme court backing them up to not allow gays.. All that work they did to get the courts to rule in their favor years ago.

Why should the BSA, a private organization allow themselves to be bullied by the LGBT community. And this is bullying because the BSA had already made it clear how they felt, but that wasnt good enough.. The LGBT keeps on taking them to court and getting endless litigation against the BSA. NO !! isnt good enough for the LGBT, the supreme court isnt enough.. It being a private organization isnt enough, this is blatant bullying.

Why even want to be around people who dont want you around ? Why would gay people want to be in an organization who doesnt want them anyway. Go make your own Gay scouts of America and have endless fun with people of the same morality, prinicples, thinking. Birds of a feather flock togather.. ever hear of that ? Why force a set of beliefs on another group.. It is nothing but blatant bullying.. i cant say that enough.

@ Maggie

I agree that the core issue is pedohilia...but, to say that a pedophile can't be a homosexual, or a homosexual can't be a pedophile is ignorance at a level you can't possibly believe. If a male leader has sex with an underage male he simply becomes a homosexual pedophile.

The question one has to ask themselves is this...is it ok for Adult heterosexual male, girl scout leaders to sleep in a tent with girls?

The obvious answer is no. Why?

If your out camping and someone put in a penis in your buns would you tell anybody..."hell no"...want to go camping then? This joke doesn't seem funny anymore now.

But no keep to yourself no gays seeping with straights the temptation is to great for the man lovers to be in the same tent, and if they do they need to allow co-ed sleep overs for both sexes so the temptation is the same for the heterosexuals or shall i say 'the normals"??

JMagnum Yes some people are like animals. What I was saying was that we should not be acting like animals. Just because an animal does something doesn't make it right. We are capable of thinking for ourselves and not following instinct. Homosexuality is a sin and that's it. End of story.

Oh, I'm a guy since you having trouble as to who to address your post to....

Gays hit on heterosexuals all the time. Back in the late 70's I was an assistant bar manager at a nice local restaurant & lounge. 99% of the guys on the restaurant side were gay guys, who hit on me constantly. The ones who didn't get it, that I wouldn't go out with them, after bugging me 2 times, I went directly to my manager, and to the owner. 3 of them were fired for harrassment. End of story.

I never offended any of them. Just told them I was interested. Some will not take no for an answer, just like anyone.When that happens, just make sure you can document it in this day and age.

Also, that goes for straight people as well

Homosexuality is a sin and that's it. End of story.

So is eating shellfish. So is wearing clothes of different fabrics. So is working on Sunday.

So is having "lustful thoughts" about a hot girl... yet I am willing to bet that you continue to do that.

So is "coveting your neighbor"... yet people continue to be jealous, or get angry about what someone else has and how they acquired it.

So is judging others... yet here you are.

Oh... I forgot. You are the typical, disrespectful christian who picks and chooses what parts of the bible you follow, and what parts you ignore. Continue treating your "holy book" as a Chinese take-out menu.

mguy,

Damn it, stop making sense!!! What the heck is wrong with you?????

Seems a bit simple to me. Don't want to share a tent, don't. No problem with it. Then hey, no problem!!

"SABOT"; If I may...Yes. Theoretically, a MAN could be both a Pedophile AND a Homosexual; meaning he would "like" and have "sex" with a CONSENTING adult male as well as being attracted to and assault/abuse children. These are two very different mindsets. A man who is homosexual has sex with a, "Consenting Adult." By virtue of being a "homosexual male" does NOT, in any way, mean that said male is a pedophile. Like I said, they are two very different ways of being.

Consent: Noun; permission for something to happen or agreement to do something.

Assault: Make a physical attack on. Abuse: Treat (a person or animal) with cruelty or violence.

"Can a Gay Boy Scout share a tent with another boy?" I would guess it all depends if the Gay Boy Scout was pitching his " OWN " tent.

JMagnum Yes some people are like animals. What I was saying was that we should not be acting like animals. Just because an animal does something doesn't make it right. We are capable of thinking for ourselves and not following instinct. Homosexuality is a sin and that's it. End of story.

It's your side that brings up that homosexuality is unnatural. So it is proved that it does occur in nature, so now that is disregarded because we are of higher intelligence. So which is it? Just like the typical Christian today, the story keeps changing to suit the argument because you cannot debate any of your points logically. I would think if we are capable of thinking for ourselves, we wouldn't need an archaic book to do it for us like you seem to need. I would think higher intelligent beings could get past judging others because they are different. You don't like homosexuality, then don't do it. No one is forcing you to engage in that activity, but you seem happy to make sure you force your beliefs on those that do.

TXHorseman

Actually I am a little confused. It's been a while, but when I was in scouts I didn't share a tent with anyone... well, except my dad when they did the father/son trips. But other than that, everyone was required to bring their own tents.

Maybe things have changed, but I thought all scouts had their own tents. Solves the problem, if you ask me.

@ Dark Shadows

The only "evidence" of homosexual acts in nature is a illustrated book thats all conjecture, with no scientific backing.

The strongest evidence against homosexuality being a naturally occuring phenom vs. a human societal side effect (unless your counting random genetic mutations).... is that life, void of human ego and will, fights for survival as primary to all other things. Homosexuality is in direct opposition to the survival of a species. The very nature of homosexuality, prevents the "homosexual" gene from reproducing on any meaningful scale. It would simply be worked out of the gene pool.

@ Jmagnum

By virtue of being a "homosexual male" does NOT, in any way, mean that said male is a pedophile.

Never once did I say that by virtue of being a homosexual you are automatically a pedophile.

But, by being a homosexual pedophile it does automatically make boys the most likely target. So where logic is concerned, you don't place people of the opposite (or attracted to same sex) person in a tent with said target sex child. This isnt rocket science Mag.

It seems to me that you are trying to bad mouth my view on homosexuatlity. I think it is wrong, disgusting, immoral, and unnatural. That is my view and I am entitled to them just as you are entitled to think that sticking your d!ck inside some guys butt is perfectly ok and normal. It's not my crap that is going to flow out when I am old and my anus is stretched beyond repair....

It's ironic that we call Muslims neanderthals living in the Stone Age because of their belief that if women show too much skin, the male Muslim will lose control and rape them. And yet you have idiots on here thinking the same way when it comes to homosexuals. "OMG don't let a homo boy sleep in a tent with a straight boy, he's gonna molest/rape/kiss/whatever him!!"

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much...

It's not that people believe that ALL will do that!! Would you put a girl and boy in the same tent? Hopefully not! It is the same for gays. You wouldn't mix them because there is always that chance that it WILL happen and then they'll have a law suit on their hands because they didn't "take precaution".....

Sabot

The only "evidence" of homosexual acts in nature is a illustrated book thats all conjecture, with no scientific backing.

Except... you know, all those documented cases of scientific analysis when it happens. But that is just science mumbo-jumbo, right?

Homosexuality is in direct opposition to the survival of a species.

Not when said species is in danger of extreme over-population. Then survival depends on a certain subset NOT reproducing, in order to maintain balance.

ohwell-1824629

@Mgay "You would do well not to compare humans to animals... especially humans like YOU... you will lose every time". Your group of clowns are the ones constantly comparing the occurence of homosexuality in the animal world to justify your deviant behavior to society. Your respite was poor to say the least.

Matter of fact, if you homosexuals would just learn to keep your sexuality to yourself, then gays in the boy scouts would not have ever been an issue. Homo's would exist in the boyscouts and life would go on. But NO, a number of queers decided that they would like to make sexuality an issue. You just had to bring up your perversions and announce them to the world instead of just quietly going about your life like most normal people do.

coravensfan: Cub Scouts? Yes! Boy Scouts? Do you really think Junior or Senior High kids are talking about "cooties?"

I guess it comes down to this. If the Boy Scouts/ Girl Scouts change to allow the gay movement, then we as parents that don't want our children exposed to this sick way of life will have to get our children involved in after school activities other than the scouting programs. It's too bad, because these really were great programs but to keep our children from being around this gay crap I am prepared to watch as these programs die and move on with my children to good programs. Well, I hope the gay movement is happy with bringing their sick lifestyle to this point. You will go down in history as what caused the death of the scouting programs. Hey grandpa, whatever happened to the scouting programs that were around when you were a kid? The gay movement pushed their agenda on the scouting programs and people pulled their children out of scouting and quit supporting those programs.

SABOT said: "If a male leader has sex with an underage male he simply becomes a homosexual pedophile."

No. You're wrong. You can't imply that one equals the other; X+Y does NOT = Z.

If you are dying of hypothermia and your straight scout friends are arguing over which one is going to get naked to warm you, then you'll be begging for a gay scout.

Michael-4273928

I guess it comes down to this. If the Boy Scouts/ Girl Scouts change to allow the gay movement, then we as parents that don't want our children exposed to this sick way of life will have to get our children involved in after school activities other than the scouting programs. It's too bad, because these really were great programs but to keep our children from being around this gay crap I am prepared to watch as these programs die and move on with my children to good programs. Well, I hope the gay movement is happy with bringing their sick lifestyle to this point. You will go down in history as what caused the death of the scouting programs. Hey grandpa, whatever happened to the scouting programs that were around when you were a kid? The gay movement pushed their agenda on the scouting programs and people pulled their children out of scouting and quit supporting those programs.

Yeah they call that "personal choice." You are welcome to raise your children to be just as bigoted as yourself.

"Hey grandpa, whatever happened to the scouting programs that were around when you were a kid?"

"Well, junior, I didn't want my kids hanging around them faggots. They might have turned into faggots themselves"

"But grandpa, you didn't know that I'm gay as well and that there is nothing wrong with it?"

"GTFO of my house faggot!"

...Substitute the N word instead of faggot and you'll understand what life before the 50's was like for blacks. Why you would raise your children to be like that, to hate like that, is beyond me..

You *do* that Michael-4273928. The Scouts actually do not need narrow minded fundamentalists like you. And it is the fundamentalist Christian religious that infiltrated and gained significant power in the BSA over the last 30 years which *will* be the death of the Boy Scouts if they don't kick this fundamentalism to the curb.

Why? Because the scapegoat Du-jour of the fundamentalists during that time, being gay people, have come out of the closet and their friends, family, neighbors, coworkers, associates, and fellow Americans have rapidly come to realize that they are just like everyone else in every conceivable way except who they are romantically attracted to. And society is no longer tolerating prejudice bigotry and discrimination against their friends, family, and fellow citizens.

It's not LGBT people who are forcing the BSA's hand in this. It is their rapidly dwindling membership numbers as more-and-more people choose to not to have their children affiliated with such a discriminatory organization that would say for instance their son's brother or beloved uncle is not welcome among them. And it is their increasing loss of corporate sponsorship and donations, who also do not agree with the BSA's discriminatory policies against gay people and also non-theistic children, that is causing the Boy Scouts to rethink their position on this.

The Girls Scouts has no anti-gay policy and they are doing just fine. So will the Boy Scouts. Do you think the various fundamentalist sects are going to get together to have a similar organization who's only defining characteristic is that they forbid gay kids? Ha! Even if they did that, each of these fundamentalist sects, be they the Mormons or the Southern Baptists or fundamentalist Muslims, etc... are going to want the organization to revolve around their specific religious beliefs. You're not going to have a large vibrant national organization like the BSA with narrow-mindedness like that.

So you can take your sad pathetic bigoted a** and your kids out of scouting, but make no mistake your kids *are* growing up in a world where gay people are increasingly accepted as the valuable friends and family that they are and your kids *will* almost certainly one day look down upon their father as being an ignorant bigot insofar as it comes to gay people. And if you're ESPECIALLY lucky, one of you kids will be gay and you can further contemplate how much you want to disadvantage and discriminate against him or her.

@ohwell-1824629 "So with that logic, i have seen lions engage in infanticide. Shall we accept that as normal in society as welll??"

So.... you are saying that if we see something in nature, indicating that it is natural, that ALL things seen in nature should be okay among humanity? Hence you conclude that if we demonstrate that homosexuality is, in fact, natural because it is seen in the animal kingdom, that means that because we see infanticide in the animal kingdom as well, then THAT should be considered acceptable if we are to consider homosexuality acceptable?

And you don't see any gaping holes in your logic here, ohwell-1824629?

By your logic, since we see heterosexuality (straight sex) in the natural world and we consider it as okay among humans, then we should also see infanticide as okay among humans.

How it is you cannot distinguish acts between two adults who are consenting with one another to engage in those acts (gay sex) with those acts in which NOT all participants are willing and consenting (infanticide), is simply astounding and really seriously undermines your having any credibility whatsoever.

michael: Do you keep your boys locked up in their separate bedrooms? What are you doing as a parent to prepare your boys for reality? Do you tell them that anyone who doesn't think like them is sick, so they shouldn't have anything to do with them? Do you teach them that they should be as frightened as you of anyone who isn't like you? Or, are you teaching them to shoot anyone who doesn't agree with your philosophy of life? Do you know anyone who is gay? Let me rephrase that, do you know anyone who you know is gay? Do you know why I rephrased it? Let me tell you why. It is because everyone I've known who's claimed they don't know anyone who is gay really does know someone who is gay. It's amazing who people who are like you haven't a clue that others don't realize that you are like you are. So, why would they be honest with you?

A gay male is ONLY attracted to other GAY males. A gay male is NOT going to be attracted, or come on to, a heterosexual male or any female.

You're complaining about other's ignorance and yet you make this absurd statement. There is a whole subsection of homosexual porn in which they show straight males masturbating. Do homosexuals look differently so that another homosexual can tell that they're homosexual? Do you think that gays look at someone, ask him "are you gay" and only after they say yes, are attracted to them? Sexual attraction is something that happens unconciously.

@ Jmagnum

No. You're wrong. You can't imply that one equals the other; X+Y does NOT = Z.

No. You're wrong. I'm not not implying...I'm stating, if a male leader has sex with an underage male he is a homosexual pedophile.

Imply: to make something understood without expressing it directly

Statement: idea expressed in definite terms

@ MGuy

Not when said species is in danger of extreme over-population. Then survival depends on a certain subset NOT reproducing, in order to maintain balance. (in response to my comment -Homosexuality is in direct opposition to the survival of a species.)

Sure...over population.

Then suicide shouldnt be illegal or even discouraged then.

Why bother about with anti-obesity campaigns, since obesity killed off 400,000 Americans last year.

Seat belt wearing should be optional.

Anyway...enough placating your silliness. There in no evidence this country is overpopulated...in fact to the contrary. Just today this posted... http://news.msn.com/us/census-more-than-1-in-3-us-counties-are-now-dying-off

Oh...you meant the world?

http:/geography.about.com/od/populationgeography/a/popdensity.htm

It breaks down to less than 2% of the Earths surface is populated by humans. Doesnt really sound like over population. Pull your head out of your fifth point of contact.

mguy-478

Homosexuality is a sin and that's it. End of story.

So is eating shellfish. So is wearing clothes of different fabrics. So is working on Sunday.

Changed after new Testament came. As for Sunday, the day isnt important, its about keeping the sabbath. Allowing one day of rest to enter Gods sabbath day, and focus on him. Kind of like recharging your soul ..

So is having "lustful thoughts" about a hot girl... yet I am willing to bet that you continue to do that.

Im sure a lot of us do. I know I do. But where does it say that being a Christian makes you immune to sinful things ? Christians are sinners , just like those who dont believe and do the same things that are sinful, are sinners. The difference between Christian and non, as that the Christian will lust, and then at some point in time, feel convicted of what they have done and goto God for forgiveness, and as for the strength to not do it any more. That still doesnt mean that it wont happen, but we are to try to make ourselves more like Christ.

So is "coveting your neighbor"... yet people continue to be jealous, or get angry about what someone else has and how they acquired it.

Once again, if done, conviction comes, and repentance is needed.

So is judging others... yet here you are.

And we are allowed to Judge according to Scripture to help keep our fellow Christian people in check. How ever, if I am going to judge a person and doing the exact sinful thing myself that they are doing then that is being a hypocrite .. Hence the saying dont talk about the speck in your brothers eye when you have a plank in yours. So yes we are allowed to judge when confronting our fellow brothers and sisters to help keep them in check with biblical teaching. We are looking out for each other.

Oh... I forgot. You are the typical, disrespectful christian who picks and chooses what parts of the bible you follow, and what parts you ignore. Continue treating your "holy book" as a Chinese take-out menu.

There are plenty of people out there who are like this. I have no idea who you are referring to here, but I agree with you that people are guilty of such things. Just not the bible, but History books is another fine example. I see so many one liners or partial sentences ripped from entire paragraphs of our founding fathers to make them look like they are saying or believing something else completely from what they are saying in full context. Even our first ammendment gets butchered.

Also i would like to add, all sin , is sin. Being gay itself doesnt seem to be the sin, its the act of homosexuality. A man sleeping with a man, woman with woman would be the sin. Lying is a sin, cheating is a sin, stealing, murder, worshiping other Gods.. There are many sins, and they are all viewed the same. But all of them can be forgiven, and we are to refrain from sinning.

Example of the one liner thing i was telling you. Jesus and the woman at the well..

Let he who is with out sin cast the first stone.....

So many people toss this out there in christians faces, but nobody seems to finish the rest of the sentence. Jesus did forgive her, but he also tells her to go and sin NO MORE.. meaning knock it off.. stop doing what your doing. So, if homosexuality, the act of it , is a sin, then refrain from doing it, if your a liar, refrain from doing it, if you cheat , then refrain from doign it..

@ Chris

I substituted the words faggot (or gay) with the N word....

Grandpa - "Well, junior, I didn't want my kids hanging around them n*ggers. They might have turned into n*iggers themselves"

Grandson - "Sir, you are talking to a n*gger!"

It just dissolved into a scene from 'The Jerk.'

@SabotAndHeat

How so very quaint that you think human beings occupying less than 2% of the Earth's surface area equates to not having an overpopulation problem.

I realize it's difficult for people who were never taught to think beyond the tips of their noses to comprehend these things. But let me try to simplify it for you.

It's not about how much SPACE human beings take up. It's about our ever expanding resource consumption (and the majority of the world does not live with the same massive resource consumption of the average American - though they are very much trying to get there), and the subsequent damaging impact that consumption (and other activity) has on the very ecosystem that sustains human life! (This is where I'd add 'you dolt' if I wanted to drive home the point of the absolute stupidity of your statement).

Human beings don't just take up their own physical space and the space of their personal living area. The amount of space required to support an individual human being for a lifetime is MUCH bigger, AND human beings are only a small part of the vast and intricate ecosystem that maintains and sustains the very environmental conditions that provide a surface that is habitable by humanity. We are already having an undue amount of impact on that ecosystem, and if we cause it to collapse, while life will happily go on on this planet, it won't be able to support human life again perhaps for thousands if not 100's of thousands of years.

As to not fighting against those things which kill existing human beings, it's an absurd analogy. We value other living sentient human beings, and once realized we work to protect each other. But we also work to improve the impact each other has on society. Obesity, suicide, not wearing a seat belt, war, etc... don't just kill off people. Those things, and the death, can and do have negative impacts on all the other people those lives touch and ultimately society at large.

We have extended human life and health tremendously due to our advents of things like agriculture, medicine, industry and other scientific advances. We've circumvented nature's built in population regulators (like homosexuality), and have exploded the human population. And here we have people like YOU who are stuck in the bronze age trying to say we should eliminate even the things nature has evolved to try to prevent a population from overgrowing itself and killing itself off!

@ Glen

And here we have people like YOU who are stuck in the bronze age trying to say we should eliminate even the things nature has evolved to try to prevent a population from overgrowing itself and killing itself off!

I would love to see where exactly I stated anything should be "eliminated" ! I'm arguing homosexuality is a choice... and that's all. It is you who are trying to make me an extremist out of words that were only typed by you.

It's about our ever expanding resource consumption...

This is nothing new to the planet. It only happens in degrees. Why were Native Americans nomadic? Because they used up resources in that spot and moved on. It's a rather simple human modus operandi. We will do just as Dr. Sagan envisioned and continue to expand out into the galaxy and consume even more resources!

We havent even begun to scratch the surface of the resources that we can use for energy right here on this planet. So I find it rather quaint that you believe we are at the peak of human capablity to produce new forms of energy. (This is where I'd add 'you tool' if I wanted to drive home the point of the absolute stupidity of your statement).

...the things nature has evolved to try to prevent a population from overgrowing itself and killing itself off!

To say that the homosexual population is basically "here to save us from ourselves" is absurd. If nature were just simply trying to prevent overpopulation by making an irrelevant vessel for procreation...it would be much easier and save far more energy by just making the mother of said "naturally made" homosexual, sterile. Then you have no birth and no extra mouth to feed via the very same uber-strained ecosystem you bleat as being the natural reason for homosexuality in the first place.

I do not disagree... homosexuals should have the same rights we do. No matter what you might try to do to fit me into a box because we disagree...I have clearly stated it now. You may now argue with yourself in private as to the honesty of that statement.

Your logic is flawed beyond words and shows that youre simply pandering to the homosexual, without thought. But, your sycophant pandering friends will agree with you, and that's all you really need...the mindless acceptance of other fragile hearts like yourself.

As I stated originally, homosexuality is a choice.

@ Glen

P.S...

A sterile woman cannot procreate.

A homosexual (or gay) person can pro-create.

If homosexuality was a built in mechanism to prevent over-population, why wouldnt nature choose sterilization over homosexuality?

In fact, many gay couples have found surrogates to help them actually have a child despite the homosexual nature of the couple.

Please try and weasle an explanation as to why a homosexual couple would want to reproduce if natures sole purpose for homosexuality was to prevent reproduction in the first place? Sounds a bit like homosexuality is choice of the ego, not a burden of nature.