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A Southern California man says his third-grade daughter was forced at school to sing “You’re a Grand Old Flag” and other patriotic songs that violate her beliefs as a Jehovah’s Witness.
The school says the girl hasn’t been forced to sing anything.
Paul Salcedo, whose daughter attends Rosebank Elementary School in Chula Vista, says the principal, the teacher and the family had an agreement that the girl would not have to sing. He says the daughter was forced to anyway.
Among the other songs to which Salcedo objects are “My Country ’Tis of Thee” and “This Land Is Your Land.”
“That’s part of the religion, too,” he told NBC San Diego. “They don’t salute the flag. They don’t sing those types of songs. That’s their right.”
Salcedo’s wife is also a Jehovah’s Witness.
Jehovah’s Witnesses generally believe that saluting the flag or singing nationalistic songs amounts to an act of worship. Believers also refuse to participate in secular government.
School administrators dispute Salcedo’s account. They say that the school district has offered options to parents who don’t want their children to participate, and that they have no plans to stop teaching the songs.
“We don’t see these songs as being anything other than folk songs,” said Anthony Millican, a spokesman for the Chula Vista Elementary School District. “Having said that, we are sensitive to the needs of every student, and so we’re looking to find a reasonable solution.”
A meeting planned for earlier this week among everyone involved was canceled because Salcedo wanted to record it, NBC San Diego reported.
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Two words - Home School. This way you can control everything your child does.
public school = secular govt. Home school or private school are some options if this dad is so scared of his kid developing her own thoughts.
I thought "home school" too. Without saying too much about this particular story, I would like other people to know how things were at my public elementary school. There were 35 kids total in 3 classrooms, grades 1 - 6. Every Thursday we would all walk over to the community building for "KYB" or Know Your Bible. It was a class, part of the curriculum. Parents could sign a permission slip at the beginning of the year to allow their kid to go or not. My parents signed it but I did not grow up in a religious household. We were taught to decide which, if any, religion we wanted to follow. I consider the KYB to be an extra class I took, nothing more, and I'm glad I did. We had 1 family of Catholics in our community and those kids weren't given permission by their parents to go, so they sat at the school and studied while the rest of us went to KYB. I always thought that was odd because it was just another class to me. This was in the 60s. We said the Pledge every morning. This JW dad could look at it as another part of his daughter's curriculum. The US is supposed to be a conglomeration, a melting pot, and a means to learn about lots of different types of people with the freedom to agree or disagree. Or better yet, agree to disagree.
OMG....the kid had to sing a patriotic song? And this is news? What is this country coming to?? What would happen if we had a war like WWII??
Sad sad sad...
Oh no..... singing songs about our great country..... SHAME , SHAME , SHAME...... Move somewhere else.... maybe Canada?
If he is this upset over a song his child may, or may not, have sung in school; what will he do if a REAL problem ever comes his way?
Yes, we must be sooo politically correct nowadays in this liberal politico carnivale world we writhe in. We wouldn't want to offend a cult like the Jehova's by singing patriotic songs- the same country which protects their rights to b!tch about it. Would we?
The Pledge of Allegiance was acceptable until they added 'under God' back in 1954. That, I think, was the beginning of the change in the Republican Party and religious right imposing their beliefs on the masses.
So ... you see freedom of religion as a "liberal" thing? Interesting ...
ProFreedom-5130956 : Read the article again. This wasn't some liberal crying about his daughter having to sing a patriotic song. This was a member of a religious denomination. If this was your daughter and she was asked to sing something that was against the beliefs of your group, you'd probably be crying about it too. While I consider the JW beliefs really those of a sect more than a Christian denomination, it is their right based on the constitution. It really gets old, people don't like something so they blame it on the liberals.
Beth-440386 - my thoughts exactly!! I think some people need to stop and think before they speak. Take cue from Romney...47% comments.
Just as people put their children in Catholic Schools or Jewish Day Schools or Home Schools...this guy has the choice to do the same. Oddly, both teach religion and secular education. So why does a public school provide a secular eduction? Oh yeah, because it is offered by the secular government that runs the country.
Does this guy collect a tax refund from this secular government for his child? Perhaps he should not collect it, it goes against his religious beliefs. I know all about the JWs and their beliefs. My mother's best friend all throughout their 12 years of Catholic grammer and high school eventually became a JW along with the man she married. I wanted to know more about the religion so I studied with them for a year. There are some things I agree with but many others I disagree with. When her husband fell out of a tree, landed on a cement sidewalk, splitting his head open, lost a lot of blood and needed a blood transfusion...nope, they let him die instead. If I were a JW I would not be able to have a double lung transplant to help me living longer should I need it...I was born with Cystic Fibrosis. You cannot spread goodness around the world if you are dead.
Kind of funny how public school gets a beat down from this guy but he feels the need to express his "rights" provided by the secular government of the country!! A bit hypocritical for someone who does not vote in elections and is exempt from military duty should it arise.
The man fancies himself a prophet let him preach it at home. If he has no allegiance by LAW he has no country. See Ya! P.S. Freedom isn't free you have to earn it.
"Jehovah’s Witnesses generally believe that saluting the flag or singing nationalistic songs amounts to an act of worship. Believers also refuse to participate in secular government."
Well I don't believe its worship, I think its acknowledging the beliefs this country is based on.
Now, I don't think you should be FORCED to do so, but its quite tacky to raise a stink about it.
What is this guy really saying?
"I don't want to acknowledge the fact that I have freedom of speech and religion!" - kinda counter productive isn't it?
I am in the boat with many of the posters above, if he doesn't like the US, he is welcome to go elsewhere.
If it looks like a liberal, smells like one, acts like one... liberal.
Nice. Thanks for admitting religious freedom is a LIBERAL idea (which it was, btw)
For crying out loud, forced to sing in school. Forced to worship America??? Give me a break.
Dad, pull the kid from the heathen American school and home school the kid.
JWs are OK people but a bit dogmatic as to what they consider "rendering unto Caesar"
Reno u ok , and what is the big deal of having a chioce what sheep is someone hear getting hurt by the girl not singing the songs hear read about the great landhttp://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/14/17315882-contamination-at-nc-marine-base-lasted-60-years?lite
#1.22 Makes me wonder: Your comment is unintelligible.
Two words - First Amendment.
It's precisely minority religions like Judaism, Baptists, Quakers, Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses which form the backbone of religious freedom legal precedents in the US.
As an atheist I don't support their silly religious views at all but I do support their right to hold those views, as well as the legal obligation upon a government-run school not to infringe their religious liberty. The school absolutely has to make reasonable accommodations. There's not enough information in the article to determine whether that was done in this case, but that's an issue for a federal court to decide (if it even gets that far).
San Diego is a very patriotic region.. I went to school there and had to sing the same patriotic songs. There are more military bases there than anywhere else in the US. If anyone has a problem with that, they can move to Mexico.. or better yet, Germany, which arrests and jails Jehovah's Witnesses. Requiring our citizens' children to respect to their country doesn't violate anyone's first amendment rights or freedom of religion. Religion does not absolve you of your requirement to serve and honor your country, even if our country will assiduously defend your right to criticize our leaders or our government.
Funny you should mention Germany since forced nationalism is one of the trademarks of a fascist regime.
What you want is anathema to the constitution, as our supreme court has previously ruled.
And FYI, it was only the Nazis who persecuted Jehovah's Witnesses, not modern Germany where Jehovah's Witnesses are a protected class in part because of that odious history.
Julieann, please remember that our rights are not "provided by the secular government of the country." The rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are innate human rights, granted not by governments but natural to all of us as human beings. The Bill of Rights is an acknowledgment by the federal government that these rights belong to the people and not the state. If our civil rights must be "provided" by the government, then we are no better off than we were in the monarchy from which we separated. Because they are affirmative human rights WE created the government of the United States to protect those rights.
NoLiberty - all of the people in your "boat" need to back to civics class. You have every right to hold your opinions. I think though that it would do us all good if we would stop the line of reasoning that says if you don't like my interpretation of the way things are you are free to leave. What the hell makes the people in your boat so important that they should assign themselves as the arbiters of who can stay and who should go?
California First - Forcing someone to sing when they don't want to is as much a violation of their right to free speech as is jailing them for what they say. Part of free speech is the inherient notion that you cannot, in fact, be required to honor anything. Since we have done away with the draft, you cannot be required to serve your country. Free speech is as much being able to be silent as it is loud.
skrekk - Leave to you to compare American Public School System with the Nazi Germany's rule. Jehovah Witnesses are not liked in a lot of Countries. Take a look at a list and convince me that they are not a cult or unsociable cowards who aren't worth dog spit in my book!
And to think that our men and women are fighting and dying on foreign soil to protect these gutless bastards.
Yeah skrekk - Just like the freaking Nazi's, I would round up ever one of these POS's and deport them to the Gobi Desert, which would force them to reconsider the part that hell doesn't exist. When they come to my door, I open it and ask their denomination. The minute I hear Jehovah piece of sh!t witness, I tell them to get the f$#k of my porch. I have no use for cowards who won't defend their own country because they claim the government is evil, and they want nothing to do with their fellow citizens, whether it is to protect them or help save them. Absolutely, they're one of the most self-absorbed, self-righteous cowards that slime around the country. They care for no one but themselves and demonize anyone who is not one of their lemmings. The only thing they can "witness" is what a pack of nutless selfish bitches they are.
Like I said - harmless but dogmatic in the extreme. I was asked if i wanted to attend the "memorial" (commemoration of the so called last supper) - I just said NO and left it at that. Some of them know my religious views (Religion is the opium of the masses - a placebo for those who cannot AFFORD REAL DRUGS) I'll still help them if they need help but they've learned that preaching to me is a profound waste of their time. They actually accept evolution and don't dispute the scientific estimated age of the earth. It's all a bit goofy as far as I'm concerned
Wow, did that one ever go over your head. No surprise there.
I was merely correcting CaliforniaFirst's ignorant and incorrect comment about Germany and the Jehovah Witnesses. He got the facts 100% wrong since Germany doesn't "arrest and jail Jehovah Witnesses". The Nazis did, but not Germany today.
However, CaliforniaFirst's desire to force nationalism down the throats of schoolchildren is very much a fascistic impulse, worthy of Nazi Germany. And very un-American.
All of you nuts who believe in imaginary friends and magical sky wizards aren't worth dog spit in my book, but that's beside the point entirely. The point is that Jehovah Witnesses have the same 1st Amendment rights as any other person, no matter which silly cult you belong to. Personally I think Jehovah Witnesses are a bit more respectable than the cannibals in the bizarre Catholic cult who believe in the doctrine of transubstantiation.
Ummm...Rocco. That list was NOT compiled by any JW. I find that list quit repugnant. JWs choose to follow the Bible's direction as it is the Word of God. Getting back to that list...it's poppy-cock!!!
Thy kingdom come on earth be done as it is in heaven hmmmmm what does this mean Ricco moron explain that
And now people, here is the PERFECT example of why our founders, in their infinite wisdom, developed the First Amendment to the Constitution. Thanks for making our point so well for us!
Also, thanks to the First Amendment, while you have the right to spout your neo-Nazi crap, WE also have the right to tell you how absolutely disgusting it is!
Let me explain it this way, sometimes the truth hurts, even for an imbecile like yourself. Did that explain it enough for you - moron?
That is not my list, that is a list from an individual who has a friend that is a JW who told him what their religion is about. Now, I know for a fact that some of the items in the list are true! So it can't be all poppy-cock, unless you're a JW yourself who is defending this cult religion.
No Beth, I am not like the freaking Nazi's you liberal idiot. As for We, I didn't know you are French. Don't assume you represent jack but yourself, got it? I said just like the Nazi's or would you prefer I said just like the communist to make you feel socially better?
skrekk - When was the last time you were in Germany? Or how about this? When was the last time your lived in Germany? You will find it has it's extreme leanings to the right every now and then. JW's are not persecuted by the German government to my knowledge. Religion is almost a mute point in most of Europe today. Chalk it up to the current generation of "You owe me kids." But don't bring up Hitler, Nazi's or salute in a Nazi fashion. Some Germans will take extreme offense and some will not. They're still some Germans who consider Hitler a great Leader in godlike fashion, though delusional as it may be, he is still liked in some quarters. And I have met Germans who are still enraged that they lost the war, which is to be expected.
My point about the JW's was pretty accurate if you research it. They are neutral in every way. That is why I called them cowards.
And I am glad you all believe in what you want too as well, but I'll be damned if I'll get on here and cut anyone down for it. Respect. Not around anymore. Not taught anymore, Parents don't spend time and teach kids respect. Not in school. NoWHERE! NONE! That's what it boils down too. If a religion wants to be a cult and hurts nobody, whatever. When they break laws thats another story. But until they do, RESPECT!
Oh but I forget, It's cool to tear someone else down for what they believe in. It makes people feel all big and tough and warm and fuzzy inside.
I don't care what you are, you nice to me. I nice to you. Plain and simple. You break the law, I turn you in. Otherwise, worship an anthill for all I care, just don't cut me down for what I believe in, just to get your jollies for the week!
@ROCCO1-604435
The bible tells you not to take mans word for it do your own research. I would recommend instead of being so angry you do your own research. Research all religeons. Then choose who you feel is right. But please give up the anger.
Why can't the school do the more politically acceptable thing, and force the kids to wear islamic burkees & pray to allah like they do elsewhere?
The school didn't force his kid to do anything. just another whiner looking for a cause.
JW not signing or reciting a pledge has been around since the 50's. No one cares. Yet he seems to have a problem the songs are sung at all.
Do Jehovah's Witnesses recognize the government enough to file lawsuits against people or groups? That was my first thought, this was someone going to try to hit up the school system for money.
John954 - I made a similar comment above. I don't understand how this JW does not vote in elections and is exempt from military drafts yet feels the need to express his "rights" under the US Constitution (secular). Must be the same reason he files that tax return to get the tax credit the secular government gives to him.
I think the secular government should make him pay for his child's education if he wants the school to make special accommodations...or he can Home School her. Makes one wonder why JWs do not have their own school like Catholics and Jewish Day Schools. It must be a secular thing...like their secular jobs they hold and collect a secular paycheck!! Hypocritical if you ask me!! :)
Is that the same bunch that bangs on my door on Saturday morning wanting me to attend their church? Doesn't help my hangover!
Julieann all your comments do is display your utter lack of understanding of civics, American government, the Constitution. He's not expressing his rights, he is exercising his rights. Those rights don't go away because he doesn't vote or is exempt from military service because those pesky civil rights don't belong to the government to grant as gifts to people who agree with your narrow view of being a good citizen.
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness & didn't participate in activities such as these at school either. And never had an issue with it nor did any of my teachers, classmates or administrators.
But, it also was a MUCH less P.C. world then. Get some gumption & deal with it. "You can't please all the people all the time!" SO STOP TRYING.
April, I went to school with a girl that was a JW. She was awesom and never felt left out when b-day parties/holiday parties were happening. She went to the Library. You are so correct in that it was not a PC world when we went to school.
Reno, what's wrong with it is that it is a celebration of a specific religion to some who may not share that affiliation. I see... when you teach your religious beliefs to your children, your teaching them 'values', but when someone teaches a different religion to their children, it's 'brainwashing'. So, I guess you think all Jews should be forced to exchange gifts on December 25? I smell a TeaParty....
One of my co-workers is a Jehovah's Witness, and she loves to go out for lunch to celebrate people's birthdays. She believes that Jehovah wants people to be happy, and she's happy to have pie with me on our shared birthday. I was surprised, but I'm not going to tell her what she should and should not do.
Robert, you're saying that celebrating a birthday is a "celebration of a specific religion". I don't get it.
What he's saying is much of what birthdays are about is steeped in superstition, magic, and paganism. Not many folks know or really care about that as long as it's a 'feel good' experience. JW's want to be loyal in everyway humanly possible to God and don't want to pollute their lives by introducing anything contrary to God's teachings and commandments into their ways. The Bible makes it very clear what loyalty to Jehovah means.
Since 1995, JWs have been losing memberships with approximately more than 1 million lost in a ten year period. Much of it is blamed on the availability of information easily accessible on the internet. I think this is a sign of people learning to make decisions on their own beliefs and not being ignorant to the World around them. The JWs have only existed since the late 1870s. JWs do not even equate to 1% of the American population. As a matter of fact, the latest US Census shows the third largest religion is 0.8% of the population...Islam.
I grew up with my Mom's best friend's children...they were JWs. As kids we always had a great time whenever we spent time together. There were always prayers before meals, just as it was with my Catholic & Baptist upbringing.
@ Julieann...I'm unclear what your point is in relation to the subject at hand.
John, I wrote nothing about birthdays.
I worked with three Jehovah Witnesses.Every time one of them wanted a day off or to not be scheduled to work when it was their turn by seniority on a Saturday they played the Jehovah's witness card.People of other religions never used it to their advantage to receive special treatment.Jehovah witnesses go door to door preaching and won't take no for an answer.If their religion was so great people would be pounding on their church's door to get in.
Jystme - Julieann has no point.
just a cleaning lady -
Anyone who is not willing to protect their own freedom or that of their fellow countrymen is simply a gutless POS. And I do not care what that religion may be. JW's are neutral in their allegiance to the country they live in. They will not pick up arms to defend it.
J.W.'s refuse to salute the flag or say the Pledge Of Allegiance. In the old days the teachers would BOP 'em for such refusal!
Those were the same teachers who would also spank a girl for wetting her panties (never mind that she had a bladder infection from sexual abuse) or punish a paper boy for coming to school late (never mind that he's helping to support his family).
Some teachers were sadistic control freaks, and the schools and students are better off without them.
No they didn't. We had once in school in the early 60's. No one cared one bit.
Elk: That is a story you are familiar with or is it deep seeded resentment because you did not recieve something in your youth? I believe it to be the latter, because you cannot be that cynical without a cause or reason.
Sick religious freaks. Want the benefits of being an American, but not willing to be one. Poor child being taught to believe their stupid religion makes sense. If you don't like it, take her out of public school. Better yet, adopt her out to real people.
You bring up a really interesting point to me. Only in America could this sect exist and be excused from national exercises (pledge of allegiance, songs, simple acknowledgment of patriotism). They take the word "worship" to the extreme. I certainly don't worship the USA, but I definitely acknowledge the freedoms it affords me. I wonder if the the JW's at least see the latter.
Kinda like some of the atheist bigots who demand that Christian and Jewish kids not listen Christmas carols and Hannukah songs at school concerts just because they are afraid that their kids may start to explore other belief systems. If you don't like it, take them out of school. Better yet, learn some tolerence, otherwise you're no better than the religious extremists.
"Only in America could this sect exist and be excused from national exercises"
You haven't traveled much obviously.
Yes, of course, anyone who doesn't believe as you, and doesn't want to engage in your religious rituals, should go without an education. The funny part is that you folks don't even know anything about the JW religion. If you did, you would understand that they honor the Bible's teachings far more strictly than most christians, but not so much that they are goofy. They honor the Ten Commandments faithfully so, because the first commandment states "Thou shalt have no other gods before me", they won't celibrate Christmas because it is a worship of the SON of God. I'm an atheist, but I do respect their honesty in their religious beliefs, especially since I have never heard of one trying to force their beliefs on me. The rest of you posters here could learn something from that.
Jarhead...does that mean you have never cheated on taxes, broke a law, or stepped on someone's amendment rights? Maybe you need to rethink what 'being an American' means.
They honor the Ten Commandments faithfully so, because the first commandment states "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
If I recall correctly, doesn't t the 5th Commandment state, "Thou shall not sing You’re a Grand Old Flag "?
No Jystme, it means that Jarhead is convinced that the only true Americans are those who believe exactly as he does.
You just can't make this @!$%# up folks
saluting the flag is not a form of worship , it is paying respects to those who fought to keep this country free for them to practice their religion....
In your opinion. JWs disagree with you and, quite frankly, I don't think that they're asking all that much. Why do you want to force them to say what you want them to say? The problem seems to be yours.
Yes it is. As soon as they added "under God" that's exactly what it became.
Most of us who wore the uniform did it to defend the Constitution ... and their freedom to practice their religion ... whether we agree with it or not.
Robert Warner,You and a lot of posters are missing the point.His child is enrolled in the public school system.Nobody is forcing him to send his daughter to a public school.He wanted his moment of fame and possibly a big fat check which ain't gonna happen.
Cleaning lady, the government is certainly forcing him to educate his daughter. Unless he can afford private schools, then he is, in fact being forced to send his child to public schools. You are the one missing the point. Schools are intended for education, not indoctrination.
In spite of Witnesses not saluting the flag or singing patriotic songs, they are good citizens who obey the law, pay their taxes, and are honest employees. It's no more 'controlling everything their children do' than people who raise their kids as Catholics.
I worked for a JW for a while. This guy could manipulate the truth to mean anything he wanted it to mean. Honest is not a word I would use to describe him at all.
I know evangelicals Christians who were the same way. "I've been saved," was another way of saying "I can do anything I want to and still go to heaven."
I also worked for a JW owned family business and my experience was the samw. Furthermore, at work their religion never came up, unlike when I work with other christians. Also, even though they knew I was an atheist, they always treated me with respect, never denigrating my beliefs. While we did discuss religion when I dined in their home, I was always shown respect. I have never had any dealings with JWs since that has done anything to lessen those warm feelings towards JWs.
I don't see where this father wanted to change the system, only exempt his daughter. Our country is based on freedom of religion. It seems that those who cannot tolerate another religion is not being a true American and is disrespecting our founding fathers and what they stood for. Another point I would like to make, is the fact that I don't think a lot of you understand what "allegiance" means. It means being loyal until death. How many would pledge their allegiance do this. Only you can answer that. I know too many that would jump ship if the one they were on was sinking.
@ 20 Year Vet...being a JW does not mean we are perfect. We do make mistakes and occasionaly act poorly, but we deeply regret when we do and attempt to make amends and to not do that again. Bad habits aren't corrected overnight and many who are JWs are new to the faith and are still learning to live by Bible standards. There are also those who claim to be JWs but aren't and whose actions are less than desirable that bring a bad name to the faith. Besides, I think you are greatly exaggerating.
Avid Reader,Are you serious about their character.A dear friend of mine who worked at Pac Bell was murdered by her son.they were Jehovah's witnesses,he had a drug problem and beat her to death.We had a man that was a Jehovah's witness come into work every morning telling filthy dirty jokes.Your comments are not true.
As opposed to the parents having the girl walk door to door on Sundays forcing their religion on people.
That's terrible, making a kid sing songs. What will be next, forcing them to play tag or hopscotch? Get a life, Dad. If that's the worst thing your kid has to do, count yourself lucky. If you choose to put your kid in school, they follow rules like everyone else, case closed.
The kid simply sits there quietly. No one cares. Slow news day?
It should be up to the girl if she wanted to sing or not. The dad is just another @!$%# who wanted to control everything in his kid's life. It is ok for this @!$%# to go to other people's house and tries to force his bs view on them but, it is not ok for the school to ask her to sing.
Good point, Robbie.
Michael Jackson's family were Jehovah's Witnesses, and his dad had him and his siblings sing.
Yeah, like the Jacksons should be held up as an example of anything...if that is not the most f-cked up, moronic bunch of people, I don't know who is. They are absolutely frightening.
Forced to sing? I really doubt it but I've read and heard worse. If the kid had been a muslim then the President would have arrested the entire school faculty.
You think that's bad? My kids have to do math in school!
LOL. Forced Math! Whether they like it or not! Shameful!
Pure snobbery, all that book lurnin stuff.
Maybe he should take his family back to Mexico and worship whatever he wants!!! You want to be an American, reap American rights and privileges but you don't want to show it??? Then go back to MEXICO!!!
Yeah, wanting freedom of speech and religion... how unamerican!!
Go back and read the constitution Lorenzo.
So, sit back and don't sing. Agitator, instigator, troublemaker
This has been going on forever. Is this such a slow news day that Mr. Paul Salcedo ranks 15 minutes of fame?
The schools changed from having Halloween parties to having Fall Festivals, Christmas became Winter Parties so as not to offend Jehovah Witnesses and others. So what happens then? The parents go ahead and take their kids out of school for the afternoon of the party anyway.
Jehovah's witnesses do not ask the schools to change their celebrations to suit the Witnesses. We are more than happy to simply let people have their celebrations, and yes it often means staying home during the party etc.
The only thing this man sees is a lawsuit, he's just setting the stage that's all.
lol they cancelled the meeting with the parent because he wanted to record it? yea, they arent lying or anything then..pft, point Mr Sacedo..school none...
Don't see a problem its simple don't sing. And please stop knocking on my dam door cant you read no trespassing next time im answering in the nude.
Don't see a problem here. But I do have a problem with you knocking on my door trying to force your beliefs on me when I have a sign that says NO TRESPASSING.
After reading the article I was left wondering what kind of force and by whom was it used. By force does he mean, the other kids in the class were singing and she felt she had to join or did her teacher or an administrator tell her she had or else (bad grade, detention, suspension?) The article seemed to be missing some of the facts. We have freedom of religion therefore, if it's against her religion to sign those songs she cannot be forced to sing them.
Yes, that's why I wonder about the gentleman's complaint. I wonder if she was actually "forced" or if the class was singing the songs and she just went along.
Or maybe little girl wanted to sing with her friends, but was too scared to tell daddy that when she accidently let it slip. Quite possibly the school 'forced' her to sing by not duct taping her mouth shut during music class.
Maybe "forced" was the wrong word. I suspect "coerced" would have been a better choice. You know, like threatening her with a bad grade or detention.
Suddenly I'm envisioning Margaret White...
Its just a crying damned shame that there are parents out in the world that just want to make a mountain out of the proverbial mole hill. Didn't his daddy ever tell him to pick and choose his battles? seems to me that if he really wants the special considerations for his child then home school the kid, that way you have a guaranteed 100% control over what your little darling is doing or not doing on a daily basis. Me personally, I love hearing all those old patriotic songs as it makes me think back to what has occurred in all the years this country has been around and what type of sacrifices people have made, both military and civilian to build, fight and keep this country, so people just like this man can have the right to live here with his family.
This speaks to the very core of freedom of speech. If anyone is silenced, all our voices lose resonance. If anyone is forced to say something they don't believe, the very words they repeat are demeaned.
I agree. I just wonder if the word "force" actually applies. That's where I think the father may be wrong.
I somewhat agree Robert. I suspect, as I noted earlier, "coerced" would have been a better choice.
First of all the child is in third grade, second the father said he had already spoken to the school administraters about their beliefs. The teacher is supposed to excuse the child from the room or tell her directly that she was excused from having to sing. That is the way it is supposed to be done...however, some teachers have very strong patriotic feelings (as do a few of you) and are not so kind and supporting of their students needs. In truth, they glare and make comments that make the child want to shrink into their seats and become invisible...I speak from experience...therein comes the 'force' that the child feels to sing. Not all children have the personality to stand firm...they have to learn it from repeated experiences such as these.
Jystme,You are assuming what happened to you has happened to this young lady?
I'm not assuming I'm explaining that there are reasons that may have been in play. Why am I not allowed to speak my mind as you and everyone else is? Besides there is one bit of info that has been overlooked. The father is NOT a JW, the wife is. Oh, and my experience is not so unique it couldn't happen in other schools by other teachers.
I don't like that thing he has growing on his chin, but I'm not going to order him to remove it.
That was growing? Looks more like something shot, stuffed and mounted.
That's a sack tickler!!
What "force" was applied? Intimidation? Name-calling? Detention? Suspension? Lowered grades? What?
Kind of hard to evaluate his claim without that information. It sounds like the school tried to handle the situation appropriately.