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Subscribe to RSSSome veterans are waiting six months to see VA doctors to fix their broken dentures or artificial knees and at least two veterans died last year from diseases “due to delay in care” at their local VA hospitals, according congressional testimony delivered Thursday.
Meanwhile, staffers at several Veterans Affairs medical centers were found to have rigged computer records to make it appear as though there are little or no wait times for ex-service members when, in reality, backlogs for veterans needing exams and treatment can span six to eight weeks, additional testimony revealed.
“Delayed care is denied care,” said Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick, D-Ariz., during a House oversight hearing held to investigate why most veterans must wait 50 days on average to schedule initial exams with VA doctors. Kirkpatrick spoke of one Iraq veteran in her district who required more than six months to book his initial consultation with a VA mental health provider.
“Veterans should not have yet another hoop to jump though. Access to health care should be easy to schedule,” Kirkpatrick said.
With the Department of Veterans Affairs already nine months behind in meeting disability claims, the fresh anecdotal evidence of long veteran-patient waits prompted Rep. Mike Coffman, R-Colo., to chastise the VA Deputy Under Secretary William Schoenhard: “You’ve been here, in this position since 2009. You came in (and) the system was in chaos and not serving the veterans community. You’ve been there. You haven’t made a difference. And I have no reason to think that under your leadership, unfortunately, this job is going to get done.”
Coffman also waved a handful of VA records documenting the deaths in May of 2012 of two veterans, one in Georgia and one in South Carolina — both of whom were ill and awaiting consultations with VA doctors. “So by your own internal documents there are issues concerning the quality of care related to timeliness and, unfortunately, the loss of life unnecessarily of veterans. That’s particularly alarming,” Coffman said.
Earlier in the hearing, Schoenhard expressed his regret over any reported “breakdown in care,” adding that “any veteran who goes without timely care is one veteran too many in terms of our commitment to serve those who served us.” He testified that the VA is working to tighten its appointment system by better meshing its administrative and clinical functions and ensuring “more robust training of our staff who schedule these patients.”
But equally troubling to members of the House Veterans’ Affairs subcommittee: reports of VA employees who — as Coffman described — “game the numbers” to deceptively make VA patient-wait times appear shorter. The Government Accountability Office discovered such altered computer records during recent inspections at four VA medical centers, a GAO official testified Thursday.
“Some staff told us they changed medical-appointment desired dates so that the wait times aligned with VA’s related performance goals ... We heard this across several facilities,” testified Debra A. Draper, director of health care at the GAO.
Draper testified that at one primary VA clinic, GAO investigators learned that a scheduler had changed dates (in a computer) “to show there were no long wait times. At another specialty care clinic, we heard providers were changing (appointment) dates to make sure their data showed they were within the (desired) 14-day timeline of the VA. We also went to one specialty clinic (where) it showed a zero-day wait time (when) ... in reality there was a six-to-eight week backlog, at least.”
Asked by Kirkpatrick whether those VA schedulers “were unduly influenced” by VA brass to purposely tweak the appointment records, Draper replied: “We weren’t specifically told they were directed by management. The current (software) situation provides ample opportunity to change dates, whether intentional or not, to reflect the results you want to achieve.
“(However), these measures are included in VA’s budget submissions and in VA’s annual performance and accountability report,” Draper added. “So there’s a lot of incentive around these measures.”
Related:
- As VA backlog grows, Congress, veterans grow weary of excuses
- Disability-compensation claims for veterans lag as 'VA backlog' worsens
- Home from war, troops face 'white knuckled' first month
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Ok, so there are two issues here.
1) Fraudulent or inappropriately altered data about patient care wait times
2) Much more important: Why are wait times so long?
Going to leave (1) to the law to figure out, some audits etc should quickly straighten this out and resolve the issue. However, for (2) WHY are the wait times so long? Does anyone have information about number of patients/physicians? is this a system wide issue or just local to those 4 facilities? How does the wait time compare with non-Veteran health systems (assuming that non-Veteran systems have acceptable levels of wait time). Etc...
Anybody know? Lets see if we can nail down the exact problem.
Im a veteran myself and I know a lot of other veterans who use the VA system because its free. Just like any other benefit which is free it gets overused causing these delays. With unlimited money Im sure the VA could treat any vet immediately but we the people dont have unlimited amounts of cash so this is the result. Understand the VA system is the largest hospital system in the US yet it still cant keep up. Veterans from the Cold War, Vietnam, Korea, and now the Gulf wars are going to clog up this system for decades, unless we the people want to spend 100's of billions more just get used to these delays.
There was a proposal in 2011 to allow veterans to see private doctors who had been approved by the VA (not hard to do since most will also be TRICARE providers), but that bill died in the House.
I'm 20% - the last time I needed to use the VA (was in between medical coverages) was 1980. they were OK... THEN
The VA is overwhelmed and can't get proper funding. Almost 1/2 of all veterans, within the last 8 years, are claiming disability and want not only free medical care but a pension for life. This is bound to clog the VA system whose function has never dealt with such numbers, not even after Viet Nam.
No, there is actually only one issue here... the lying, crooked, sleazy, despicable, treasonous, filthy POS "American's" basically murdering the very people that volunteered and sacrificed the safety of their own lives to protect them... typical for this country, its extremely un-patriotic people, and its bought and paid for gov'mint! And Dick(head), what are your sources for such claims? I think you're a wretched POS for suggesting that these veterans just want free medical and pensions... both of which I think they SHOULD receive and also I hope you and your family never receives either one in your lifetimes!
When a service is free many people tend to abuse it. That means others who are in genuine need have to deal with people who waste doctors times.
Yes it is free but is also what the government promised to service members. Each year more and more is taken from veterans, in cuts, lack of desire to up disability pay to keep up with inflation, lack of V hiring more doctors (In Detroit most patients are seen by nurse practitioners and physicians assistants.) Now they cut veteran education benefits. Hey DC, cut your own stuff first! Take care of our veterans, they were willing to die for you!
I am a fully retired and disabled vet. Because I am retired I was able to buy the Tricare family coverage. I gave up on the VA when my initial appointment would take nearly a year to see the specialist I needed. I now pay premiums and co-pays to be treated for my service connected disability.
Bottom line for wait times is you have way more veterans than the the current VA system can handle, that should be a no brainer but when you have politicians riding there high mighty horses in town, you know how that goes, only times politicians speak up or visit is when they need votes. About the the data being altered, thats a huge no-go and irrelevant to making the VA site look good. Because this happened at a few VA sites dose not mean all VA sites should be penalized for this. Bottom line here on the wait times is, if you have insufficient staff/equipment not only do the Veterans suffer as seen but so do the Staff members/medical personnel for being over worked and not all VA sites have all medical services readily available. Lastly no mention of numbers of Veterans VS. number VA sites was mentioned in the article.
Without GW Bush double war in a single decade there wouldn't be anyone needing VA medic. That's really the whole reason. All the military contractors got paid handsomely IN ADVANCE while the VA care is left to the public now holding the bag since it was not stipulated in the budget. Of course when you fling things like "let's spend money to care for our veterans" who's gonna say no to that....
This is how you backload the budget game...... Dick cheney won... again, all coz we were too stupid to see thru his scheming smile as he pockets your money.
Iraq War 10-Year Anniversary: 19 March - Done 'In Our Names'!!
After abandoning the main missions, and world help, for why we even sent the military into that region!!
“We are dealing with veterans, not procedures—with their problems, not ours.” —General Omar Bradley, First Administrator of the Veterans Administration
"If military action is worth our troops’ blood, it should be worth our treasure, too — not just in the abstract, but in the form of a specific ante by every American." -Andrew Rosenthal 10 Feb. 2013
"You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today." - Abraham Lincoln
No Revenues = Still No Sacrifice = That's Called 'Support' For The Troops = DeJa-Vu all over again!!
Neither war nor especially the results of, decades to come added to previous decades and wars of, have been paid for as the abandoned, and now forgotten, continues as those sent want in a drawdown to accomplish at least a very small portion of those main missions sent to accomplish!!
USN All Shore '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In Country '70-'71
As I tell my friends, if you supported our incursion into Iraq and our retalliatory actions in Afghaniston at the same time you supported the tax cuts, then you cannot now complain about the debt or deficit.
PARTICULARLY when you remember that SHRUB didn't FUND his military actions and left the "bill" to fall on OBAMA
Managed care has been improving the medical system since it's implementation increasing cost's by 50% and allowing for better and more efficient care and cost. HA-HA-HA-HA
Our politicians and country want a military kept in a glass case that you break when needed. Nobody considers the promises made to the military in peace or wartime: medical care for life if you stay to retirement, care for life if injured in a wartime theatre area. Medical technology provides that a lot more of soldiers, sailors, marines & airmen will survive injuries than did in the Vietnam Era. More survival = more costs. Retirement = more costs. And yet Congress has renegged more times than I can remember. Putting the handle on the pot to suit them and their budget. Excuse me, Congress hasn't passed a budget in over 4 years, just a continuing resolution.
I have PTSD and go to the VA Hospital here in Minneapolis. I can't say enough good about it. I do wait a while sometimes to get certain services but not when it is an emergency. It is a great place and the people there are committed to support the veteran in every way possible. I know other states have problems but not here in the cold north.
Good news for a refreshing change. Thanks for your service, David!
Don't know about the rest of the VAMC but I attended the Spokane,WA VA for ten yeqrs and am now going to the VAMC in san diego, CA and have been for6 years. All I can say is that the care is excellent, the doctors caring and all the her personel the same. Some times you have to wait abit for yur appointment, but that is because the doctor takes the time with his/her patient. I think the care that I receive is excellent and is superior, I believe to what I would receive from a provider outside of the VAMC. People have to realize the number of patients these VAMCs administer to. The one in La Jolla see approximately 60,000 veterans a year, that is quite a load. Perhaps I have been fortunate in going t these two specific hospitals, but they have treated me aboe the norm.
One question - Where is all the funding that President Oboma, & Michelle Oboma promised during the re-election campaign?
whether YOU realize it OR NOT - funding comes from CONGRESS (the PRESIDENT can ASK, but has no power to allocate funds)
Paying for vacations and birthday parties.
It is a felony to alter a federal record. Has the IG been informed of felonious actions by VA administrators and other employees? Appointment logs are a federal record.
Our vets are treated better than any others in the world, just ask any other foreign military personal. We have over committed to these vets thru our politicians. Its easy for politicians to promise the world because he or she doesn't have to pay out of their own pocketbook and they wont be around when those promises come due. Politicians love to drape the flag around themselves but I dont put much stock in those statements.
BINGO!!! Now take away VA and imagine what all those "NOT FOR PROFIT" and now "FOR PROFIT NOT FOR PROFIT" Middlemen Agencies, Associations and HealthCare Providers-NOT are doing with Patient Medical Records "electronically" captured and manufactured co-occurring and dually diagnosed and hidden behind HIPAA. Self-reporting Accountability? Act. Accountable for "manufactured FRAUD that nobody will ever know about", just not accountable for "deprivation" of what's suppose to be "PROVIDED".
Square dude, you obviously are not a Veteran.
Both sides of the political fence have neglected our veterans. This is pathetic and reprehensible. I wish they would cancel the order for a single F-35 and distribute the funds tax-free as bonuses, not to the officers, but the enlisted men and women. We spend our money on R&D, contractors of a thousand kinds, even fund Blackwater as private mercenaries to guard ice cream trucks in Iraq, and pay our soldiers wages that would be laughable if they were not so shameful.
Shame on U.S.
Freddy you make some good points yet its still true that our vets are treated better than any foreign nations vets are, perfection takes more $ than we the people are willing to tax ourselves, so blame the folks who want a leaner meaner govt because thats the result, not that I disagree with a leaner govt.
hey - gotta have the NEW TOYS... the world runs on NEW TOYS /s
Actually Canadian vets are treated far better, I know a few of them, and they are abhorred at how US vets are treated.
ok now everybody else is gong to get the same level of care with the new Obama care we will see how you people like it so from now on just keep quiet and take your granny pills like good little people
VA IS Government health care....
and your point IS?
The VA is a governmental agency that was established to care for Veterans and their orphan and widow. The VA does a lousy job performing this simple mandate. The VA of today provides substandard medical care and have a huge percentages of errors when making rating decisions. They "get away" with it because when a local VA decision is overturned by BVA or the Court of Appeals for veterans, the original bozo that blew the decision is never held account for it, so their is no carott or whip to try to get some justice for bad decision makers.
VA
I have an interesting story to tell: one day my husband's VA prescribed medications did not arrive in the mail as he had requested. We called the VA office and waited and waited on hold until we got to speak to a person; then we were told to go to the VA pharmacy and explain what happened.
We arrived very early the next morning. There were about 15 veterans waiting, one of whom had just come from the emergency room and was in a wheelchair. All were waiting to get prescriptions filled. Some had driven from out of town to come to the VA. Some had relied on public transportation. It was after 8 am and there was not one member of the pharmacy staff anywhere. We waited and waited. After 30 minutes I got up and announced to the group of men that were waiting that I was going to find someone to help and that I was going to raise he!!
I ended up going to a receptionist in another area and asked her if she could find out what was happening. I was informed after she made some calls that ALL of the pharmacy staff -- every single one of them -- were in a "meeting" and would not be available for another 30 minutes. I told the receptionist about how many people were waiting including a man from ER in a wheelchair and asked to speak to someone in authority. After 15 minutes someone came out from some office who apologized and said that someone would be there shortly. I went back to my husband and learned that the man who had come out of emergency room had wheeled himself back to ER to get some help. Within a few minutes one person showed up to start helping the veterans. Some of the men sitting there were elderly, some middle aged, and some younger. NOT ONE of them deserved such treatment. They served our nation. And this is how the VA serves them.
I have sat with my husband in the waiting room waiting to be seen by his doctor. Even when he has an early morning appointment he has never been seen on time. One time we were called back 30 minutes after his appointment time and then sat in an exam room for nearly an hour. He got perhaps 5 minutes of the doctor's time. During most of the visit the doctor just asked questions while typing on his computer. He barely looked at my husband.
Nowadays my husband only goes to the VA once a year; it always takes a long time to get an appointment because there are so many veterans in need of care.
So, my husband made the decision to use Medicare and his Medicare supplement rather than go to the VA. But he's fortunate that he has that option to go to a civilian hospital. Some of the veterans do not have that option. They are dependent upon VA care.
I love the way we take care of the people that fight for us don't you .. People you need to wake up , and look around at who you letting run this country from city all the way to the top ..... They robbing us blind, can't you see .. It may even be to late ..
The really sad part about this situation is that most of the uninformed voters still think it's a great idea for the government to be providing health care.
What is the solution, letting the private "for profit" healthcare sector provide it? Two sides of the same coin, I'm sure it would probably be even worse, that's even sadder.
btcoates, do you actually believe that it's all peaches and cream in the private insurance/medical industry? The difference between the VA and private industry is that Congress oversees the VA where all the issues come to light and the private industry oversees itself and has the luxury to stay quiet on the totality of their issues.
Clean house from the top down. Fire all civilians who have not served and put Vets in there. Those who altered documents imprison. These civilian's sit back collect a fat check and treat veterans like Sh IT
trouble is that IN ALL HONESTY there aren't enough qualified VETs to take up the positions. the sentiment is admirable, but in practice it "fails"
The military shouldn't be able to discharge any GI without them being processed into the VA system complete BEFORE they leave the service. Either that or let them report to a civilian Dr that the VA pays for...
Taxpayers need to belly up. That's all there is to it. Next!
Your right on KB!!!!!
It's a D Shame that we as Veteran Have to go through stuff like that, Obama say he is helping Vet's that a Lie
KB has got it right!!!!I know three Vets that went in for their appointment and told you are a dead man!YOU HAVE X AMOUNT OF TIME TO LIVE?
I have been using the VA system for around the last 3 yrs. I am a Viet Nam era vet. I can only speak to my experiences. But Ive used the main hospital in Riveria Beach Fl. the Martin County clinic and the Port St Lucie clinic. My experience has been awesome! My appointments have been on time. I have received great care! MY primary care person a nurse practitioner found a clogged artery during my annual check up. I was consulted by a surgeon and scheduled an operation. I went in got great care from everyone throughout my time in the hospital. I worked at a non profit hospital for 13 years I know what care is supposed to be like and I received the best care possible. Im not saying these things mentioned above didn't happen. I just saying my experience has been way different! I would recommend any of my brother vets to use this system.
One thing people must understand before they go bashing their local veteran center....they give us "impossible" goals of this 14 day wait time, but they do NOT let the VA hire any more staff to DO that, because of funding1 I have worked at a VA specialty clinic for 10 years now. When I started, we had 1 doctor and 3 nurses. Guess what? We see double the patients now, and we still have 3 nurses! How do you tell us to see more patients, but refuse to give us the staff to do that? On top of that, we are going on 3 years of a pay freeze with no raise, and now, they are talking about lowering our job a grade level because "we make too much."
On top of that, we have had dozens of staff retire or leave in this last 10 years, and replace MAYBE 50% of those positions.
It is my experience that the staff where I work really understand our mission, love our vets, and try our best to give them excellent care. We can sympathize with the frustration they feel; we feel it too.
Until our government can stop sending our money out to take care of the rest of the world, and direct it back where it belongs, to our AMERICAN veterans, not much will change.
My experience with the VA is this: Last time I went to a scheduled appointment I waited for 3 hours in the waiting room before getting up and walking out(it was a 3hr round trip drive) 6 hours wasted for nothing. I tried to call and reschedule in January and was notified the next available appt. was in May. I cant wait that kind of time to change the TBI medication you deviated from and used me as a test subject. Im 70% and I use my own insurance and pay regular payments to civilian doctors just so that I can get the care and medication I need in a sufficient time. The VA is broken doctor visits, PTSD visits, processing claims, and just overall treatment of veterans is disgusting. Even when I do manage to be seen by the VA it is billed to my blue cross blue shield insurance and they pay the VA. So technically the service isn't free for those of us who have private insurance and enough money to support ourselves.