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John Makely / NBC News
Danny Peterson is a seminarian attending the Immaculate Conception Seminary located on the Seton Hall University campus in South Orange, N.J.
Half a world away from where Catholic cardinals gathered this week to elect Pope Francis, men who hope to do the daily work of the faith woke up at the Immaculate Conception Seminary in South Orange, N.J., and met for pre-sunrise prayers.
Fifty-seven aspiring priests from around the world live in the seminary on the campus of Seton Hall University. They will spend from six to eight years undergoing the process of formation before becoming full priests in the archdiocese of Newark, which has 238 parishes over four counties.
Afflicted by scandal and battling decreased enthusiasm in the United States and Europe, the church will rely on men such as these in coming decades to maintain the faith. The pope himself alluded the challenges on Friday, urging cardinals to never "give in to the pessimism, to that bitterness, that the devil places before us every day."
Danny Peterson, of Richmond, Va., knows most of his peers do not want to become men of the cloth. A surfer who studied international affairs, the 28-year-old used to pack an ice chest of beers for football games and concerts. No longer.
“I’m not going to see Pearl Jam anymore,” Peterson says. “Those days are over.” Peterson sees himself in what he calls the “John Paul II generation” – a cohort of younger Catholics inspired by the charismatic deceased pontiff. At 14, he saw John Paul II at a World Youth Day celebration in Rome. He’s traveled all over the world, from Haiti to Ecuador to the Czech Republic. This winter, he sold his old surfboard for $400 to fund a ski trip – a hefty sum considering he stretches out two stipends of $500 each year.
Becoming a priest was always on the table in his large Catholic family which includes five older brothers and sisters, Peterson said. His father briefly spent time in the seminary before meeting Peterson’s mother. His family has supported his choice, he said. He’s heard other reactions from friends, including: “You’re an effing idiot.”
“It’s hard here,” Peterson said of the seminary life. “We don’t have a lot of money. The room is the size of a closet. If I didn’t think I was called to do it I would have left already.”
John Makely / NBC News
Nelson Oyola, a seminarian attending the Immaculate Conception Seminary, sets the chapel up for an afternoon mass.
The average age for new priests in 2012 was nearly 35, according to a review conducted by the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University. Thirty percent of new priests were born outside the United States. More than half had more than two siblings.
American-born and opinionated, Peterson is one model for what the next wave of American priests may look like. Nelson Oyola, 31, is another.
Oyola’s day begins with a class quiz on the laws of the church. There are heads with more than a few gray hairs in his classes, and several Spanish speakers.
Oyola knew little English when he left his village outside Bogota, Colombia, nine years ago to pursue his dream of becoming a priest. Now, dressed all in black with a white roman collar that seminarians are allowed to wear only on campus, the soft-spoken student searches carefully for the right word.
“God was calling me to serve here,” Oyola says. “It was something in me. I always saw myself celebrating Mass.” As with many priests, the voices of loved ones also helped when choosing a life that includes celibacy, little money, and late-night visits to hospital beds.
John Makely / NBC News
Peterson prepares for class.
Encouraged by his grandmother and a young local priest named Father Julian, Oyola never felt that aspiring to become a priest was a strange ambition for a young man.
Oyola had five girlfriends in high school. It’s good for a priest to know what it’s like to be a in a relationship, he said. The last girlfriend broke up with him as they approached the age young people often marry in Colombia. She knew his heart was set on the priesthood.
The Spanish-speaking congregations he has met at churches like St. Francis de Sales in Lodi and Our Lady of Mt. Carmel in Jersey City remind Oyola of home. At one point recently, there were 15 Colombians among the seminarians in South Orange. Every time a new Colombian arrives, he is brought by the group to the Statue of Liberty, Oyola said.
Though it 'died' ages ago, Latin is all over Rome and the Catholic Church. A Latin scholar explains why the language is worth understanding.
That God has called him to serve so far away from home does not make leaving his parents and two older brothers in Colombia any easier: “Every time the plane leaves, it feels like your heart stays on the ground.”
“That’s something that’s always on my mind,” Oyola said. “What if I don’t get to spend any time with them any more?” When he saw his cousin’s newborn, he wondered what a baby of his own would look like. “But I live with joy and no regrets,” Oyola said.
As the seminarians lined up to engage in a special vigil they held for as long as the conclave continued, they were aware that the church’s problems – ongoing revelations of sex abuse, a top-secret dossier on corruption in the church – would not go away with a new pope. The seminarians gathered around a big-screen TV to watch Pope Francis’ first appearance on Wednesday, Peterson said.
“We used to say that Latin America was the hope for the Catholic church,” Oyola said. “Now I realize that maybe we are not the hope anymore. We are the present.”
Cardinals from around the world gather in the Vatican to elect the next leader of the Roman Catholic Church.
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Leave a Comment:
The mainstay of our seminary recruits arrive by the method of childhood indoctrination.
"Give me the child until he is seven and I will give you the man." St. Francis Xavier, Jesuit.
+Francis, Jesuit, acting pope.
The same can be said about any other profession. I'm not exactly sure I see your point.
Pope Francis
david1159
Really, dude?
What he really meant was, "Give me a child until he is seven, and I will give it to him, man".
The type of person who gravitates to being a catholic priest is a pedophile.
It's been the same for over 400 years.
.
Why American men choose to be priests? Let's take a vote.
a) can't function in the real world. b) can't hold a real job. c) to join the international pedophilia cult conspiracy. d) all of the above.
I vote for d) all of the above. How do you vote?
d.
i see your point norm 903 but one of the priests i know was a wall street banker till he was in his late 40's. he got burned out and was always very religious. he just said he couldn't take the grind anymore, just walked away to enter the priesthood, and 20 years later he's still going strong as a priest. another priest friend of mine was a engaged to be married and things just didn't work out. he partied and went to concerts and worked like the rest of us. he just couldn't take the daily grind so he turned to the church. he's now a priest for over 10 years. got to remember that not everyone thinks the same about life in the long run. is there a child molesting issue in the church? you bet but never forget the good things that the catholic church is doing. they work (along side of the priests) in soup kitchens, volunteer at fund raisers, clothing and food drives, and many other great things for communitee. case in point: we have a food pantry here as we're in the middle of a bad suburban area. a mother of 4 came in when she ran from her abusive husband and needed food when she moved in with a local family. she had the pick of everything from diapers to canned goods. she said she wasn't catholic and we said that doesn't matter take what you want you need it don't you? catholics get the bad publicity but never the good publicity
"The type of person who gravitates to being a catholic priest is a pedophile.
It's been the same for over 400 years."
Wow, that suggests an astounding success on the part of the Catholic church... If the people who gravitate towards being priests are pedophiles, then the fact that only a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of all priests abuse children means they're doing something overwhelmingly right, keeping so many natural pedophiles from abusing children.
For most of the men entering the priesthood, it's a respectable way to live without the stigma of being openly gay in a traditional or religious family. The reason they will never marry is that it would threaten this very concept; it's not because they can't by the Church, it's because they won't AS the Church. Show me a priest, I'll show you a closeted gay man- and thus an astounding hypocrite.
Chris: your points are well taken, but the people you cited are clearly exceptions to the rule.
US76,
Pedophilia is the attraction? How can that be when such a small % of priests are pedophiles? We must be doing a very fine job of turning them around.
The incidence of pedophiles is slightly higher in Protestant denominations. What is the attraction for them?
that may be an over-generalization. i don't believe for one moment that pedophilia exiled seek refuge in a profession.
here's one, they realize that pop culture let alone the many strains of subcultures who have their own flaws, and are not their way of living. no one in other corporate world (meaning sustaining a functional independant citizen lifestyle based on wages from) should be knocking the establishment of the Roman Catholic Church.. who right now is taking care of what corporate world left to be homeless and hungry.
I have an idea. Lets get a new topic. Catholic Church related things have occupied the headlines all week. Enough already.
I told a Roman Catholic nun at Roman Catholic school in Pennsylvania back in 1959 - 1960 that studying the catechism made my head hurt, and that my (step) mother told me to tell them that I should not have to study the catechism since I was not Catholic. The nun who taught the class told me told me they should not have sent me to Catholic school if I was not Catholic (it was the only school within walking distance of where we moved to, and there was no school bus service back then), and then she told me to sit back down and be quiet. When the class ended that day the nun in charge of the class led me out to the head "Father" (I think he was a Catholic bishop), in front of the Catholic church which was besides the Catholic school, who then put his arm around me and told me he was going to "take me under his wing". This Catholic priest then led me be back past the fountain which had a statue of the Virgin Mary holding the baby Jesus in her arms (top of the steepest incline in the world, Johnstown, PA.), to his left wing (on the left side) at the very back of the church which adjoined that Catholic school. This priest then proceeded to turn out all of the lights, and unzip his pant and ask me if I wanted to touch him in his groin. I told him absolutely "no" in no uncertain terms, and that is the very last thing I remember that day. I have no idea when I left the church or how I got home that day. But I know I will never forgive them for what the Roman Catholic church did to me that day! - Rick Carter
NC and skimottles: To your question, "What is the attraction to them (pedophiles)?" the answer is access. Not only do they have access to their victims but there is an international criminal conspiracy to ensure there is no punishment beyond transfer for their crimes.
Additionally, some professions do attract "types". For example, engineering, accounting and mathematics attract people that are mathematically inclined. Actors, salespeople and politicians are often more verbal than others. Business leaders tend to be dominant, etc., so it isn't unreasonable to think pedophiles are attracted to children and cheap wine.
Hard to believe the catholic church still has their tax exempt status. Take it away and end the madness!
Hello folks, if you were to ask the average man on the street who may or not be religious and ask him what is the first thing that comes to mind with the term PEDOPHILIA and guess what, I can hear Richard Dawson from Family Feud saying it now:
Number one answer and the Survey Says: Catholic Church/Priests ding! ding! ding! ding!
Tell me that isn't true! The Catholic Church is synonymous with pedophilia! There is a reason for that and a reputation they have earned over centuries of abuse.
Many people come to the defense of the church stating that it is the celibate role that has lent itself to the wide spread abuse. If so, why are the majority of victims boys?
Hello folks, I meant to say in the above post "ask the average man or women." Sorry ladies, I had a flash of my old misogynist Roman Catholic upbringing, but I'm better now.
How do you know what percentage of priests have engaged in this? There's no data.
If by 'turning them around', you mean 'covering up child molestation', then yeah.
Among protestant clergy? How do you know that? There's no data.
what's the saddest part of this is how low of an IQ it takes to be considered 'average'. point being is you think that way, and there are more victims, more victimization at young ages in elsewhere professions. then we turn around after a child goes far into adulthood and blame the victim for being a victim, only to find out that they were not believed or still subjected to the dark spaces that are still out there. I have to step away from mainstreamed media sometimes, get into traffic and go to the inner city to see how many dark spaces are still left out there for all the flaws of humankind fester..
Exactly which other profession engages in child molestation?
a study retrieved quickly suggests that ten percent of RC Priest have been or are pedophiles.
they have some weed picking to do..no doubt.
but suggesting that it is because of them being celibate would be false, one prime example just settling its dust is Sandusky. also there are Lutheran ministers who have been convicted of pedophile. married and another religion leader. there is not as much research readily available out there about other professions. this stone has been unturned. it sees the light of day.. time to watch other professions that has access.
Educators, coaches, doctors, babysitters to start.
I agree that not all priests are child molesters,, but those that are have been protected by all POPES, including Benedict, and I believe him to be a molester also, and hoards of cardinals and bishops,, many thousands of abused children here in the USA and not one person in that pseudo church is willing to stand up and take responsibilty.. throwing money at these kids is not the answer.. phscy evals, health care insurance for the emotional trauma would be a start.. then the church LOL, needs to turn all those priests to the law.. but they'll continue to hide and deny as they have for years
Actually, I do remember one other thing. At some point, the Catholic priest (or Bishop) which molested me that day told me I would get a whole lot worse if I ever caused trouble in class again. That is the only other thing which I (vaguely) remember that day. - RC
@ skimottles
Which study has determined that the percentage of molesters? 10% is a shockingly huge number. I wouldn't expect a child molester to answer this survey question truthfully truthfully. I think it's reasonable to assume that we do not know the number of child molesters or potential child molesters.
I do not suggest that this issue has anything to do with celibacy.
I think the issues with the molestations are
1) They are historic and institutional
2) The church covered them up
3) Not only did they cover them up, but they did not remove the molesters from their positions, but rather, moved them to new parishes. So, these guys were allowed to continue this activity.
Hello @skimottles, Zen is right.
What other organization can continue to operate after it is caught raping children over and over again. WalMart couldn't continue to sell rakes if they did the same thing. What are they going to say, sorry folks we had a little problem in aisle 3 in the children's half pants off sale but everything is OK now! They would be shut down in a heart beat!
The church needs to come to grips with the simple biological fact that it is not normal for adult men or women to abstain from sex for their entire lives. As long as celibacy stands as doctrine, the church will continue to be a refuge for people who either choose or are forced into unsavory secret lives.
Why can't he see Pearl Jam anymore? Does becoming a priest somehow affect eyesight, or is it against the rules?
A lot of ignorant comments on here! To bad most of you didn't even read the article.
Being a minister is a calling. However that does not preclude people going because that is what they want to do. Pedophiles love to get involved in churches because they can get overlooked provided they appear to walk the talk.
The Catholic Celebacy is a different issue. It should not be mandatory. The Apostle Paul supported people being celibate, but that was more a calling too than a requirement. Requiring it of people who are not called to celebacy is just plain wrong and asking for trouble. As the Apostle Paul put it, "It is better to marry, than to burn (in sexual desires without recourse).
The Reformer, Martin Luther is believed to be one of those who struggled with the priest celebacy issue. For years after leaving the church he continued to struggle with his vow (vows are dangerous to make) of celibacy. When Nuns were leaving convents and coming to the Luthern Churches, they would help them adust to the life of being a wife by helping them find a suitable partner.
There was one former nun that no partner seemed to be able to find a husband for. After some time his associates convinced him to marry her. His writings indicated that being married was probably the best thing he ever did. All his life he had been feeling guilty about having sexual desires when he was taught all his desire was to be toward his God.
A calling. Right.
A career based upon the diligent study, interpretation and regurgitation of one bronze-age cult book. And brainwashing peple with your cult beliefs, getting them to drop currency in the collection plate, and making sure their belief in the unprovable, mythical nonsense they blab about doesn't go awry.
It's like basing your entire career on regurgitating the Lord of the Rings.
Just hope you don't get caught diddling the children.
pgulrich
Absolutely. It also needs to 1) stop shuffling pedophiles around, 2) stop putting a black check mark next to every unsanctioned orgasm that its members (and others) experience, and 3) advocate birth control.
"God called me." To do what, exactly? Mind other peoples' business?
Dmorgan said:
So what is your calling?
First, key it into MSN search "percent of pedophiles that are priest". It is a base percent.
Second, Boyscout of America for one. Then there are all the schools that don't shut down schools because the police came in and arrested a psychologically challenged hot female teacher.
because they are socially awkward around women?
Right - OK - but my point was that I don't think that this can be accurately quantified. I don't think that someone is going to say "Yes, I like to molest kids" on a survey. So, I don't think that there could be any valid stats for this.
And don't misunderstand me, here - I'm not trying to argue this point just to argue - and just to assure you of that, I'll remind you that you gave a figure earlier of 10% of the Catholic clergy as being pedophiles - that seems REALLY very high to me.
So, to someone like me, who is critical of the church and it's clergy in this issue, the numbers you've given are just much higher than even I would have suspected. So, don't take my skepticism as argumentative, it's just that I don't think the number of pedophiles in among any given group can be accurately quantified because there's really no way to identify them unless they are caught and convicted. they aren't going to just tell you that they like buggering kids or something...probably.
The reality is that most people in the gay community do not want to acknowledge this as being one of their own kind. It has been a long standing idea that the Catholic Church has been a hideout for gay men. Since the gay community is always presented in a positive light in the media, this does not even enter anyone's mind. The media always places the blame on religion instead of where it belongs; hundreds of gay men who have access to little boys.
Since sexual abuse of minors can not be placed into any one stereotype, you do these little boys a big disservice when you assume that these men, those who enter the priest hood, are only heterosexual.
Any man who molests little boys is homosexual. These men would not be classified as heterosexual in any other light. Homosexuals make up about 1/3 of the cases dealing with molested children, even though they comprise roughly 4% of the population.
Don't let the media trick you into thinking this is religion's fault or the fault of the Catholic Church.
The church should not have protected these child molestors, but then again how many times have we seen the media protect homosexuals?
You assume he meant the band.
Chris: re your post 1.8, yes, the church did the abused woman a true service helping her out with the food pantry, etc. but so could Planned Parenthood and women's service centers if the church wasn't lobbying so hard to put them out of business. Let's call that one close to a tie with the edge going to Planned Parenthood, etc.
Seems to me that the percentage is an exact representation of the homosexual community.
Things that make you go hmm.....
"... instead, I'm going to spew it all over the next choir boy I see."
Why do American men continue to become priests?
Ignorance?
Works for me.
Well, that didn't take long. I wonder how many of you actually bothered to READ the article before commenting. It just wouldn't occur to you that some people might want to do something unique with their lives. Since I'm not Catholic, I'm not sure that I really have an opinion on this, but boy, the religion haters, just can't miss any opportunity to puke on anybody with an belief that is different then theirs. Talk about prejudiced.
Exactly "differnet", because of the actions of queers, who the liberals claim are "normal", they use that to trash anyone who wants to become a priest. I am not Catholic, and yes they covered up the actions and that was WRONG, but to brand everyone who is a priest as a pedophile is an act of intolerance and hate (as well as an absolute lie, but then again, libs don't understand TRUTH) that the libs love to scream about. And, as far as those of you saying they go into the priesthood because they can't succeed at anything else, how about turning that on all the welfare freeloaders who refuse to work so they can get free housing, medical care and foodstamps. But,evidently, it's ok to be queer, or an illegal immigrant, or a freeloader, as long as you vote democratic, you are all a bunch of HPYOCRITICAL asses, so yes go eff yourselves.
"Unhappy"- if you are saying there is a connection between gayness and pedophilia- you are ignorant...Plus there are lesbians who clearly are not priests, because the sexism will not allow women to be priests...so, your point is baseless....All gays and lesbians have relations that are consensual and adult...pedophiles prey on children...In fact, it is the so-called "straights" that make up most of the pedophiles...the step-dads and dads, uncles in so-called straight marrriages or relationships...they hide...scary stuff...men are gross.
J.C.-1016889
No, you.
DMorgan
There is nothing worse than making one's self as god.
It's real easy to do. It all starts with I will, or I think I know better and end with I don't believe only what I choose to. My, what a cramped, dark world that becomes!
When you realize it is easier to let little boys come to you rather then stalking them, you become a priest.
For the high number of priests who molest, it has to be true.
Say ye not: A conspiracy, concerning all whereof this people do say: A conspiracy; neither fear ye their fear, nor account it dreadful
h3321278
because the sexism will not allow women to be priests
That is a rather uninformed statement.
Christianity actually teaches that men and women are equal. Because there needs to be order in relationships someone has to be in charge, and someone has to be the bigger person and accept direction for the good of the two. Taking turns almost always ends up in arguments.
Even in the Christian Concept of the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, are one in direction and purpose. Yet God the Father implies final authority. God the Son submitted to become man and dying. Some theologians believe that God the sone was the active part of God actually doing all the creation. The Holy Spirit acts as communicator and power. Each has distinctly different rolls, but each submits to each other in a unified direction.
If you look at the story of Adam & Eve. Adam clearly saw Eve as an equal. He failed in leadership in not fully communicating the consequences of the actions she took. Eve failed in submitting to Adam to inquire further about what the consequences of disobeying God really meant.
One observation in life is that if you fail to do something correctly, you will see the situation time and again until you get it right or time runs out. God mearly set up a history long challenge to both to learn to do what they failed to do right the first time. Think we are any better? I think not.
As far as women not being priest. I see this as a double edged sword. Priest were clearly supposed to be a leadership role. And clearly throughout the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, when men did not have the spine to do what God asked, often he promoted women to the same capacity.
Do you think it is men who are the heart and soul of the pro-life movement? Think again, men typically think there should be exceptions for life of the mother, incest, and Rape. Not so of the women in the pro-Life movement, are the real force behind no abortions, no exception.
H3321278:
Actually there are gays and lesbians who do have relationships only with adults. We are not talking about them here. We are however, talking about pedophiles inside the Catholic Church. When a man molests a little boy, what kind of relationship would you say this was? There can only be two kinds, heterosexual or homosexual. The man is clearly attacking someone of their own sex.
Therefore, the relationship is classified as homosexual pedophilia. For you to say this does not reflect on the gay community is appalling. Either you are clearly close-minded to the fact that the homosexual community does this sort of thing, or you tend to stress the fact that it is not normal in the homosexual community. Guess what? Pedophilia is not common in the heterosexual community either, yet you seem to acknowledge that argument more. Why?
Stop being biased. You are robbing children of their right to expose homosexuals as being the culprits for the sexual molestation occurring inside the church, because it is not "politically correct".
No one believes what you are saying.
If a 1/3 of molestation cases occur from homosexuals and they only make up 4% of the population, how is that not of concern?
DB Akron
Of course not, you should always let someone else do that for you.
Yeah, like the Dark Ages, that period between the Fall of Rome and the Renaissance, when literacy, intellect, and republican democracy were replaced by illiteracy, superstition, and theocracy with the rise of the church in Europe. Good times.
Peter was the head of the church. Peter was a married man before he joined Jesus as a disciple. every other christian church lets priests get married before they are ordained. seems logical to me. you would then have family men teaching our kids and saying the sermons instead of.........
zen? republican democracy? that's kind of like dry rain, or a poor rich man. republics are created to thwart democracy and give the wealthy more power. the renaissance had no democracies. Lot's of kings and queens though. Just remember, china, Cuba, Russia, Iran, north Korea are all "republics". Which is what American republicans want us to be more like. just say NO
Unhappy, I completely agree with all your statements.
I was molested when I was 7 years by a man in the neighborhood. He was not a Catholic priest. I don't think he was even Catholic at all.
What I do know is that 'male on male' sexual contact is homosexual, period!
The gay community tries to hide behind calling men like my abuser 'pedophiles'.
Why? Because it detracts from having the average person consider the fact that a man sexually molesting a boy is still 'male on male' sexual contact which is by definition homosexual sexual conduct regardless of the fact it is illegal.
Gee, does not the term 'pedophile' sound a lot more sanitized in terminology then using the term/phrase 'homosexual abuser of young boys'.
Gay activists and their liberal media supporters sure know how to spin the reality of male gay abusers for the general public!
"Give me the child until he is seven and I will give you the man." St. Francis Xavier, Jesuit.
Hey, Pope Francis, I think that you left off the most important part of the quote!
Give me the child until he is seven and I will give you the man.... who cannot possibly think for himself!
The teaser for this story proposes to answer the question:
It's a much simpler 4-word answer: Free wine and crackers.
As far as I'm concerned, their pursuit is a misdirected attempt to form a closer bond to God. As are so many "religions."
You want a closer relationship with God? You gotta do it yourself.
Share what you learn if you feel so compelled.
But never, ever, attempt to tell anyone that you know the "one true path."
Because you don't. Period.
The US is a republic. It just means a public government, rather than a private government like a monarchy, oligarchy, theocracy, feudal warlordship, etc.
To all of your very ignorant posters here especially norm. if you hate the Catholic Church then go pound some sand. to say all catholic priest is like saying that all democrats are good people. i am just wondering on fathers day do y'all have to call up your uncles or go to family reunions and see who your momma smiles at.It would be kinda funny if it was a preist.
Zen609 you have no idea what a republic means. it is not a democracy but you do not edirectly for most of the highest elected offices. or at least it does not count for muuch as neither do you.
Most of the angry little cowards who post their hate towards the catholic church proably voted for Obama because they believe him to be the real Messiah.
They're all a bunch of cork-sucking kwears.
Not i would not say all democrats are pedophiles just the majority That is becuase they are castrated to put up with the likes of pelosi. I mean look at hairy reid, he looks like one anyways. Hey norm did you know who your daddy was or did you jsust hope it was your favourite uncle?
The government indoctrinates our children until they're 18, and then the MSM take over.
Zen609
John Q Public-6353273
So, the US isn't a republic, eh? OK, thanks for straightening me out there, buddy.
Maybe they have a Bing Crosby fixation.
with all this energy on a topic that sees the light of day, key in "Jewish Pedophilia" and see what comes up. the allegations are a real eye opener.. i did not even expect it; thought i would read that they had some level of higher enlightenment.. supposedly not the case.
Okay, Zen, I finally had the time to read your last post addressed to me. You missed my statement that it is a 'base' percentage. The point of this article was not pedophilia and i'm pretty sure my vested interested in enforcing the boundaries of pedophilia being wrong does not mean i have to read it every time i may come across a chat of the roman catholic church. There are still so many other stones that need to be unturned, and take it from someone that knows what it is like to be in investigations of those who have technology on their side, you will think some of what can be unturned with that percentage to be more accurate than a person would admit to themselves. It's a number, they know they have to diminish it.
Let them design activities of daily living for the poor to be busy with and then idle hands will have no time for evil work..
i agree with the statement what it takes to be a priest or for that clergy of any religion is a deep desire to live above the filth we see in the world around us, innocences of a young adult almost still childlike and some sort of shading of an awakening that may never occur. (ignorance)
Most can not live in this vacuum. None really can, but there always is the attempt by organize religion to do such or to suggests such. Communities will tarnish this eventually by a slip of a word a meaning or just off of cynicism being the true nature of human beings. So good luck to him and hope he has a long, clean run.
Hey Rick Carter
Did you tell this to the authorities or just to the message board? If you did tell it to the authorities finish your claim and tell the board the result.
Well, hey, they get to wear dresses and stuff.
Magic,
You mean just like Jesus wore them? That is bad?
Did Jesus molest children as a matter of course and then cover it up for hundreds of years?
He might have. Who knows -- a lot of his mythical story about his mythical life was never created and then told, along with the rest. Many gaps. He could have been in jail for several years, given the gap in the story.
Well, Magic Panties (har har, LVOE the name) , marital artist/actor Steven Seagal wears dresses whenever he does his Chop Suey exercises in his dojo. And the Internets show he's left a long trail of emotionally scarred women. I guess Steven Seagal is no Semenarian.
Because there are more little boys around than ever? I can't think of any other reason a normal human being would choose such a life.
That's because your intellectual abilities are so very low.
Want to buy a plenary indulgence ? You may win a free ride in your very own purgatory proof wiener mobile !
What IS this, the Oliver Cromwell Club?
Georgieboy,
There are more little boys around now than than ever? Why do you notice that? Hmmm......
No youth organizations for you!!!!!!
NC get a fu&king grip.. you evangelicals would twist ever word if you thought ir would protect you..
Because God called them...
If you stand in defense of the Pedophile Catholic Cult, and its mythical bronze-age cult nonsense, you have no room to call anyone else's intellect into question.
If you stand in defense of gay rights, then you do realize that you are protecting the Pedophile Catholic Church as well?
if you had half a brain and where not so easily brain washed, you would know that pedophiles and gays are NOT the same thing. one is an attraction to the same sex. the other is an attraction to children. plenty of male pedophiles who go after female children. The only people who confuse the two, are the ignorant. and you sir, put the rant, in ignorant.
Actually you are the one who is ignorant. If a man goes after someone of his sex, then that is classified as a HOMOSEXUAL pedophile. Most of these priests who molests boys are in fact engaging in homosexual behavior. Just because the homosexual community does not want to recognize these people as one of their own MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO THE CHILD.
You are being biased if you think that children can't tell the difference between adult males and adult females. You are torturing these little boys even further when you have the audacity to stand up for gay rights because what they say is not "politically correct".
With a name like georigeboy I can't imagine you would even care eh sweet cheeks.
Joining the priesthood is just a more respectable way to panhandle
@ Unhappy
Your name fits you. You seems you have your own agenda when it comes to the gay community, since that is all you post about on this thread.
Please reference where you are getting your facts that the majority of homosexuals are pedophiles. My understanding is that pedophilia is not about opposite or same sex attraction. Pedophilia is about power & control over a defenseless child, not love. An attraction that disappears once the child hits puberty.
Again, where are you getting all these statistics you are stating?
Unhappy, that is a rather silly distinction...many pedophiles engage in same sex pedophilia and many others engage in opposite sex pedophilia...neither should be considered normal heterosexual or normal homosexual behavior and to make it sound like the machinations of pedophiles should be linked to homosexuality in general is about as absurd as linking the machinations of pedophiles to heterosexuality. Pedophilia is a genre all on its own, that is why it is given its own distinction because quite frankly normal people who are either gay or straight would never think to have sex with kids, the thought makes them sick to their stomach. So no, you are 100% wrong in thinking that it is even an important distinction to point out the type of sex (gay or straight) pedophiles are engaging in.
To each his own. Whatever floats their boats.
As long as they don't fondle your dinhgy !
john,
You seem awfully interested in pedophilia. Why? The article as about why men join the priesthood.
Hmmm....
He mentioned it because there was mass child molestation committed by the clergy and then covered up by the church.
NC, yesterday I wrote to you in another thread and I repeat...YOU ARE CREEPING ME OUT. Some of your comments are very creepy, not humorous at all. You keep coming up with explanations and excuses for everything negative that is stated here which unfortunately is true about the Catholic Church and its clergy. Are you one of them? Something on your conscious bothering you?
Zen609: He mentioned it because there was mass child molestation committed by the clergy and then covered up by the church.
WHAM! He rang YOUR bell, NC! Stuff THAT in your schmeck! :)
ehm . . . altar boys?
Pedophile clergy may focus on traveling to countries where my Church does not have a zero tolerance policy. Did you know that we only have so-called zero tolerance policies in countries where there is mandatory reporting for child sex crimes?
It's a loophole for predators to exploit and I will probably do nothing to close it because, you see, I remain, along with my brothers, part of the problem.
+Francis
Yeah but if they confess their sins they are automatically forgiven. Got a problem with that?
The new motto of the Catholic Church:
Zen,
Looking for a little after school "work" are you?
Francis,
Catholic priests have a lower incidence of pedophilia than Protestant clergy. Hmmm...
Early Out,
Interesting motto. Did you make it up (for) yourself?
Right, because it's not the catholic clergy that molested children for hundreds of years and then covered it up - it's actually random strangers making comments on a news site who actually molested all those kids.
You know, it's one thing to incidentally have the same faith as child molesters, I don't think anyone would hold that against someone simply for being catholic. But it's another thing entirely to defend child molesters as you are doing.
You're a real ;lfjkghsd;lf.
Zen, Y
You are more correct than you know.
No one defends the child molesters. You seem to be so far behind what is going on that all you are doing now is passing on lies. Why do you stay willfully ignorant and then lie about others?
That is termed "bearing false witness agasoint they neighbor. A big no-no. Did you know that?
Really - because you've been personally attacking people who have made comments regarding this issue, implying that they must be pedophiles. You're attacking people for their criticism of mass child molestation and it's subsequent cover-up. You're defending mass child molestation and it's cover-up by attacking those that are critical of it.
WTF's wrong with you?
NC is suffering some sort of guilt complex.
So says the little cross dressing freak Zen, too funny sweet cheeks.
There are currently about 3700 seminarians in the US. (). It's a very rigorous and intellectually challenging undertaking..not for everyone, that's for sure. I wish them all the best amid the vehement anti-Catholic sentiment in this secularized country - I pray for them constantly.
There was a time, not so long ago, when there was a great deal of anti-catholic sentiment in this country from certain groups of protestants. This was from the same people, and in the same vein as other ignorant prejudices against out-groups, and the hatred was directed at Catholics themselves, the common, everyday people whose faith was Catholic.
There's a difference between anti-Catholic sentiment, which is blind, ignorant, unreasoned hatred for The Other, and legitimate criticism of The Church, it's hierarchy, it's actions, or in some cases, inaction, it's policies, it's indiscretions, and corruptions. To view these kinds of criticisms as some kind of attack from 'secularism' is an attempt at staving off cognitive dissonance, because they're the same criticisms that are being voiced by many Catholics themselves.
I hope you don't have children to sacrifice !
"Intellectually challenging?" Yes, I imagine it's difficult shutting off all rational thought in order to embrace an incomprehensible, self-contradictory collection of medieval superstitions.
Zen,
And yet the Church is still growing. It appears that you are trying to justify your own prejudice. Why?
john,
I just hope you do not have children to ruin.
Early Out,
You mean like the over 2 billion Christians (Catholics and Others) in the world? Perhaps YOU are the one "missing" something.
Stop defending child molesters.
I'm sure you have cognitive dissonance about this issue, but to attack random strangers on the internet as a counter-argument defending mass child molestation and it's cover-up makes you a real @#$%@. It's monstrous.
Zen,
Stop trying to make the past into the present. If you knew what has been done to preclude the abuse, you would quit telling the lies.
Why are you staying willfully ignorant?
You're defending mass child molestation and it's cover-up. The church has only taken token actions and has fought law suits by victims.
It's position regarding the mass sexual abuse of Native Canadian Inuit children in Western Canada was that if the church were held to financial damages, that the Church in Canada would be forced to bankruptcy.
The church doesn't require reporting molestation in legal jurisdiction where it is not required by law. That's what they've done - so that's new, "Oh, look, we'll obey the law now. See, everything's fixed. nothing to see here - move along. It's all in the past. gosh, why do all these people keep bringing up the past?"
This issue is nothing new. It's institutional. It's been a part of the church since the middle ages.
Have whatever faith you like, but if you're defending mass child molestation and it's cover-up, simply because of your loyalty to your church, then you need to take a look at yourself and your faith.
You should better just live your faith and keep your comments defending these highly immoral actions, by both the offending clergy, and by the church itself in it's official actions regarding the molestations, out of the public discourse. It's extremely distasteful to the point of being a bit disgusting.
Zen, Zen, Zen... Your words are "monstrous"...
As far I can tell, you can't resist writing one line of hate after the other. What you need is a good dose of reality and perspective (as do many/most of us including myself). As with anything there are usually multiple valid perspectives and the truth is not so simply defined. I join others before me in defining your words as prejudiced simply because you won't allow yourself to see past the REALITY that humans (and by extension, SOME human institutions) are imperfect and sometimes make immoral decisions. Does that excuse pedophilia? NO. But what this realization does help me to do is not label all Catholic Priests as pedophiles simply because about less than 1.5% of them have committed some form of pedophilia, sexual abuse, or sexual harassment. By your logic, we should be prejudiced towards many groups in our society (for example: the percentage of pedophilia among public school teachers is higher than among Catholic priests).
So in summary, yes you're coming across as prejudiced but you seem like a somewhat intelligent guy and my challenge to you is to suppress the tunnel-vision and view life (1) more realistically/logically and (2) more optimistically.
As they used to say, "Keep it real dude."
Rah (have to keep up that Marine Spirit).
15min5k
Doesn't sound like it. If you do the math --- that just means that over 2/3 of the people on the planet know that the BuyBull and and the BuyBull cults are rubbish!
@15min5k
Lines of hate? For Catholics? I am not someone of faith, but my mother is catholic and her family is catholic. My point isn't anti-catholic rhetoric. I'm also not homophobic. These are not the issues for me here.
The issue here isn't the number or percentage of pedophiles in the clergy, it is that the church covered it up and continues to do that. As far as I'm concerned, those that defend this issue or attack others for their criticism of the church have some culpability in covering up this issue. I'm not casting stones at you, 15min5k.
The Church just lost a pope to resignation over this issue, of sexuality and the cover-up of issues of sexuality. And the church will still not release this report. The clergy historically attracts men and women of faith who are homosexual in a faith that condemns homosexuality. This is a continuing issue, and those of you that want to soothe your cognitive dissonance by denying it, arguing against it, or attacking those that criticize the church for it's immoral actions and it's continuing dishonesty, are acting in support of dishonesty and immorality.
I'm certain no moral crusader, and I'm not the kind to throw around the word immorality. But the actions of the church to allow and cover up mass child molestation seems immoral to me. That the Church would allow the AIDS epidemic to spread in Africa in order to adhere to it's dogma regarding sexuality, while the same Church allows it's clergy, even on the highest levels of it's hierarchy, to engage in sexuality that doesn't adhere to the dogma, seems extremely immoral - because we're talking about millions of lives lost to preventable disease, and because the Church insists that condoms are immoral - and at the same time, the Vatican itself houses an openly gay cabal.
It's one thing to make a mistake or commit an immoral act, but it's another thing to be dishonest about it. And this is what the Church has done in the past, and it's what it continues to do now.
Just more proof that there is no such thing as god. Unless he is down with molesting kids himself.
You people are amazing...you act like the only the only child molesters that cover their activity up are the ones that are Catholic priests...the whole theme of this and other posts is a hatred of the Catholic Church... and religion...period. No, the church should not cover this up, but I don't hear anybody talking about this same behavior in schools, or anywhere else. Being priests does not make them less responsible or more so than others. Hatred helps nothing.
Yes, I did use those words Zen and I stand by them. I also know what your point is and there doesn't seem to be an argument. Yes, the Catholic Church failed in it's handling of pedophile priests and should've had better measures in place for preventing these criminals from becoming priests. I don't see the argument and I certainly don't see the need to go into further detail or paint broad, baseless strokes like you do.
Indeed you did have to use "anti-Catholic rhetoric" even though it apparently wasn't your point.... Even worse is that you used the molestation of altar boys as a means to draw attention to your comments and instigate pointless debates which is wrong and disrespectful to every child who was molested and their families; and every good, ethical priest (whether that was your intention or not, that's what you did).
I'm not going to 'get into the weeds' any further and rebut the majority of your other statements since I would probably never convince you, but take the time to consider that there are two primary victims in this whole terrible ordeal:
(1) The molested and (2) the good priests.
You seem to able to define the injustices the first group have experienced but you not only are ignorant of how the good, faithful priests are being victimized but you have allowed yourself to indeed become what you say you're not: a so-called 'stone thrower.'
Imagine what it is like for the overwhelming majority of Catholic priests right now. To be compared to child molesters and criminals...to be harassed and targeted for crimes they did not commit... To be hated for what? For choosing to dedicate themselves to God and bringing others closer to God? Or even if that doesn't mean anything to you because you are "not someone of faith"...they have chosen a path which demands that they stand up for universal ethics and values which are inherently good at a time when these ethics and values are actively under attack within our society.
EVERYONE, take a moment to consider the 'big-picture reality.' Much of the 'Truth' we seem to lack lies very much within us.
15min5k
Good priests looked the other way, while other good priests covered up the crimes, and simply moved the bad priests to other parishes to continue being bad priests.
It's not that the Church 'could have handled it better', it's that the clergy knew it was happening, they allowed it to happen, they covered-up the incidents when priests were accused, and moved priests to new parishes when things got too hot, allowing them to continue molesting kids.
The Church denied these claims for years until the accusations were too many, and some offending priests admitted wrong doing. And even when the cat was put of the bag, the Church was initially uncooperative with local law enforcement, it fought suits filed by victims, etc. None of this was ever just simply a mistake, a bureaucratic oversight, or an error in judgement - the Church did all this intentionally. how the Church handled these incidents for years was intentional and calculated. It was immoral and dishonest.
In other words, the argument here is not one of extrapolating a general from a specific, i.e., transferring the guilt of pedophiles onto the entire clergy. It's that the Church is complicit, and that the clergy are complicit.
That's the point - they didn't stand up for ethics and values.
Long ago, my oldest brother told me he was going to study to be a minister. I asked him if he was planning to attend a seminary, he replied; no, I will not be going to a cemetery.
What the hell is a preist? sounds dumb and, kinda out of date to me. we should bring back dinosaurs as well.. buybull? never heard of such a thing, wouldnt read it if i did. not into fairy tales sorry
What about the, " Chronicles of Mahony ? " Mahony is a fairy and he's into little boy's tales and he's just about as old as a dinosaur but can't you give him a break ?
Come on man... Don't start this.
There are many things that suggest a supernatural being exists. Apologetics is a science dedicated to proving the existence of a god. In fact, there's just as much, if not more, science for God than there is for evolution. It's not outdated if it's true. The earth is how old? It's not outdated, nor is it a fairy tale.
Don't comment if you're going to be dumb about it... Realize that people have beliefs and usually reasons for their beliefs.
iaosilver,
Well, once you go to school you may be more able to understand what is a priest. I can help you now if you like. You just need to live a little longer and you will begin to see.
john,
What?
Jrodather,
Well put. An interesting perspective as to why admit the possibility of a "God".
But that is PROOF of NOTHING. The BuyBull is PROOF of NOTHING. It is an unprovable, mythical cult book. There is no more proof for its cult god than there is for leprechauns. So, get over it. If you need the crutch of cult beliefs to get through life, so be it. Just leave other people alone, stop all the goddam hate that spews from the BuyBull cults and its followers, and stop imposing that HorseS#!t onto everyone else.
Why are you even reading this article if you're o so enlightened brain sees beyond this
As long as there are children, American men will chose to be priests and to participate in," The Chronicles of Mahony." Oh boys,.....................Yoo hoo !
What?
"Give me the child until he is seven and I will give you the man." St. Francis Xavier, Jesuit.
wow im sure this guy had his way with a few little boys, you really posted that quote? hahahah what did you think it ment?
iaosilver,
You do not even know who was St. Francis of Assissi, do you? Google it. Learn before spewing.
NC-492358
Stop spamming the threads please.
Zen,
Learn what the word "spam" means.
NC,
Learn what these words mean:
Pedophilia. Rape. Complicity.
Complicity
DMorgan,
If you truly knew what those words meant, you wouldn't throw them around so disrespectfully and with such bravado.
And you speak of 'leaving people alone' which is laughable. Look at your posts (especially about this "BullyBull" that you can't seem to get enough of).
Be a man and have some morals/self-control.
Rah,
15min5k
P.S. NC, keep that "Spam" coming!
Does the "Lavender Mafia" still run some of the Catholic seminaries?
(google it)
How do you get a Nun pregnant???? Put her in a room dressed like an altar boy.... Remember the Priest's favorite song is stand behind your boy. Bend over your Priest will drive...
Boozer,
Wow, very hateful. You have personal experience with this?
NC-492358
Stop spamming the threads please.
Zen,
Learn what is spam.
In his context, spamming a board is replying to every thread on a board with sh1tposts. That's what you've done here. you replied to every thread on the page in rapid succession.
Let me guess: you thought it meant canned meat or e-mail selling penis pills, right?
Stop spamming, please.
Boozer = the kind of person this Marine would never let his daughter near.
Complete wack-job, loser, creeper, and certainly not a man in my book.
It appears that the young men become priests so that they can be Pedophiles, and get away with it A Priest gets caught, the Catholic church moves him somewhere else, and he can start over again. There is really something wrong with any parents who are Catholic and trust the Priests to be alone with there children.
wascigar,
Wow, so hackneyed and still so silly. Is it 1985 where you are?
All priests are pedophiles? All people in your family criminally ignorant?
Bud, we have had programs to stop this for years now. Try to keep up and you will not say such silly things.
This subject seem to be on your mind? Why? Do you need help?
NC
I'm joining ZEN now, please stop. You are getting really irritating besides creepy.
Go to bed now...you say early mass tomorrow.
I see little value in any faith that chooses to elevate a man as a celebrant/officiator/leader over a woman. When gender is overvalued and persona qualities undervalued, trouble comes to the world.
He is not elevated as a man over a woman. He is elevated as a servant and those who he serves.
Why do you see it as a put down of women?
Is it your job to reply to EVERY SINGLE POST HERE?
Are you being paid?
If he responded to every post with the same level of hatred that folks like you have vomited up on this board for the last three hours, you'd be patting him on the back. Put a sock in it, hypocrites.
Respect these men who make this sacrifice for the right reasons. In our consumer driven economy, choosing to live a simple life of service speaks volumes.
I hope you don't have children to sacrifice to the service of the pedophiles, they will scream volumes even as you contribute to the economy of the extortionists.
My dental hygienist will perform an excellent service tomorrow; she will give my teeth a cleaning and thus save me from a lot of pain. These priests just fill people's heads full of pernicious nonsense.
Hmmm...free housing/food a paycheck/stipend. Oh Please...priests do not take a vow of poverty-unlike the nuns. I know this as I was catholic for well over 20 yrs and was actively involved in my former parish. I saw the inequality in the lifestyle and the difference b/t the way nuns/priests lived and how they were treated. One of the MANY reasons why I am no longer Catholic!
john,
I hope you do not have children to ruin.
Mel,
What?
rock and roll,
Only a very few priests take vows of poverty, unless they are part of a religious order and even then, all of those do not take that vow either. Some nuns still do.
What inequality of lifestyle?
You were not a Catholic pooing enough or with enough experience around the Church to know any better.
Come home. I can help you do it.
No thanks. My kids are baptized Episcopalian-women priests, married clergy. Personally, I don't want any part of 'organized religion'. I don't need another human giving me incantations/spells to say or listening to my 'sins'. God knows whats in everyones heart/soul.
rock and roll,
Come on, do not lie to try to make your prejudice look like reason.
If you do not like incantations, then you chose a poor church to lie about. Episcopalians are not called "Catholic -lite" for nothing.
If God knows what is in everyone's heart, and He does, you may want to watch out for lightening bolts.
Correct. Like soda pop -- if you have the Original Version, and the LITE Version, the LITE version is much the same, except it has all the stuff that's BAD for you taken out -- which is still present in the Original.
Much like the Pedophile Catholic Cult!
For clergy who no longer believe in a supernatural haunted universe, there is now a helping resource called (link) The Clergy Project. From its website:
And of course, they are no longer active in their churches as clergy.
Gee I wonder if all those teachers and policemen were pedophiles too and that's what attracted them to the job? You priest haters need to get a life, there was a very small percent of priests who took advantage of children. If you are without sin cast the first stone!
I am sure that policemen and teachers are among the guilty but I doubt that they claim to represent God. It is not just the pedophilia but add the constant efforts to cover up the sins. If you or your child falls victim, any percentage, no matter how small, is too much. I am not without sin, I am not into throwing rocks but if you expose yourself or a child to danger, it will be your priest that ties the millstone around your neck.
the numbers of Catholics in this world and those who practice and teach the faith far far outnumber pedophile priests - faith is psychological and to 'screen' those with malicious intent may prove difficult to do - i can only pray that the Catholic faith is not destroyed by these few 'closet' individuals who choose the road they choose - i pray for Pope Francis - i am not giving up my faith anymore than boy scouts should give my their organization to pedophilia -
dmarie - you actually can't see a difference between teachers, policemen and priests? Then you probably shouldn't be a catholic.
I can absolutely say without doubt...I'm not a pedophile. Bad Arguement dmarie.
tanaink,
Anyone dealing with children must be checked out. You did not know this? Wow, no kids for you.
rock and roll,
You say you are not, but we do not know for sure. A pedophile would probably say the same thing. Hmmm.
Bad argument, rock.
Should have stated my point more clerly bad comparison priests/police/firefighters-that's all.
if women became priests and men were trained as nuns there would be a real change in the catholic church. if men took on the role of dealing with children of single mothers. children born and raised in poverty and hopelessness who are led to believe that to be right with god they should go forth and multiply. let these men do some of the hands on work of trying to help women overburdened with too many children. seeing the real lives of suffering families would they then teach women that birth control is a sin. women in the role of priest would be more sympathetic to the real problems facing families today. until the catholic church acknowledges the need for women of the church to have real power they will continue their drastic decline in the numbers of their faithful followers.
Priests "dealing with children of single mothers, children born and raised in poverty and hopelessness . . ." Sounds like a priest's wet dream to me.
Dear granny22, From personal experience: Children and especially vulnerable women and families are prime targets for the perversion and exploitation of the church's priests and nuns. Compassion is not an attribute of this cult. No matter how much the church declines, the gates of hell will never prevail against it, you see, the doors of the church are the gates of hell. To all the faithful followers; crawl out of the sewer before you complain of the odor. Be careful granny22, if you open your eyes just a little more you may see the open door.
granny,
Wow, I can help you with your misconceptions. If you want to, let me know and we can talk.
tanainkc,
Sounds like you are considereing the priesthood.
john,
How do you know so much about child exploitation? Are you an expert? Have you taken any anger management classes?
NC... you come off as a presumptuous know-it-all with a retort for everyone.
nc-492358-----misconceptions? after 12 years of being subjected to the nuns and priests of catholic education system i have no misconceptions regarding the catholic church. some were zealots and some were mentally fragile. some were racist and some physically brutal---all were misguided as to the role their ''jesus'' would have had them play in the lives of those who followed their teachings. the church today is a far cry from the teaching of their god.
I would assume that the reason these "men" choose to become priests is that they're basically asexual-freaks and feel at home with their own kind, or else they're perverts and pedophiles and they know that this is the only major organization on earth that will tolerate and protect them.
It's been that way for centuries and won't change anytime soon.
And then again, I assume that you truly have no idea and are just being nasty.
So says the OCD who is replying to every post here....
Maybe it's just how I read the article, but did it not say that the Catholic Church was importing illegal aliens from Columbia into New Jersey to be priests. AND parading them around the Statue of Liberty thereby rubbing into our noses that they are doing so, while enjoying tax free status on all Church owned properties?
I would estimate that somewhere around 99.9% of all incoming priests are either pedophiles or closeted self-hating gays. The other .1% are simply delusional.
Those numbers sound about right, give or take...
That would be obviously not be a very good estimate.
brian,
Wow, a poor estimate on the pedophiles. Try to be nice or you may well be 100% lost.
If Michael Jackson were still alive, he might have been Pope by now.
i dont understand why he can't go see Pearl Jam anymore?
Because doing anything remotely defined as fun is discouraged - unless it has to do with a little boy's bits.
Costs too much.
Yeah, costs too much. The Vatican wants all the $$ coming to them! They have to continue hoarding all the wealth/money, how else to better violate the NTwords/directives of the mythical jesus creature!!
If it costs too much, just steal some money out of the gift basket like Father NC does....
No, but... Father Danny Peterson will be donating his Pearl Jam to his lineup of Alter Boys...
(Spidey does his Victory Dance)
He might be living in poverty now, but looking at the Pope's digs, I would say that if you stick it out, you can live in luxury. Why any man would want to give up most of the joys in life to wear religious garb and pray all day to a diety no one has proven exists just tells me he doesn't have what it takes to be in the real world. In the real world you can still minister to those who need it and yet be a husband, father, etc. Shame on you for leading on any of your five girlfriends to think that you might be marriage material when all you wanted was to live as a priest. I truly do question your reasons, why you think that worshiping a man who died 2000 years ago (if he ever lived). Maybe it is for the great retirement package you will get?
"The pope himself alluded the challenges on Friday, urging cardinals, to never "give in to the pessimism, to that bitterness, that the devil places before us every day." - The Catholics are doing the devils work by being Catholic. When the bible speaks of "Babylon the Great" it is speaking of Catholics more than any other religion. Catholics worship Mary and all kinds of Idols. I have never seen a religion who is supposed to follow the bible and does so much that is clearly against scripture. Just look at Matthew 5:7&8.... "But when praying, do not say the same things over and over again, just as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words. So, do not make yourselves like them, for God ​YOUR​ Father knows what things ​YOU​ are needing before ever ​YOU​ ask him." - Then, in verse 9-13 Jesus gives an example of how to pray (The fathers prayer.) How blind does a religion have to be to not see the irony when the priest tell "sinners" to say the our father and the hail Mary over and over again?????!@#$%
A cult without voodoo, how can that be ? " By many words, whit is exhausted, " but a clever man runs a cult if the money is good.
www.catholicarrogance.org
csmithers.
Prove it.
john,
Which cult? All religions are cults.
Torqunada,
Were you trying to make your screen name after that of the Grand Inquisitor of the Spanish Inquisition, Tomas de Torquemada? It would be more facetious if you could spell the name correctly. I take it that you do not know much about that Inquisition or ANY of the Inquisitions, right?
Catholics DO NOT worship Mary. Catholic priests, nuns, and even lay persons involved in any ministry involving children have background checks with state and local police. If you have issues with the catholic church, then why do some of the same ones that complain about the church in every story read them? What other organization as large as the church, with as many members, and has lasted for 2000 years has not had issues with some of its members?
Many of you question the existence of God and I respect your right to believe that way. I humbly ask that you respect my right and the 1.2 billion other catholics to believe in His existence. Often, maturity and personal responsibility for one's actions and words will lead one to that respect. As to the article, it is perhaps difficult for some to believe that men would make a sacrifice in this materialistic world without any other provocation as several of you have assumed.
Catholics are christian and unless you truly understand our faith and dogma do not judge. My faith comforts me in times of distress and I do not have to prove God's existence because I am blessed with His presence in my life. Peace to all and I will pray for all; those who believe in God will accept them while those who do not will either make fun of them or reject. It doesn't change my intent of the prayers.
Amen sister! The amount of misinformation and hatred on this page is staggering.
There is no God, all Clergy are fools.
And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bore a son. Then said HaShem unto me: 'Call his name Maher-shalal-hashbaz
If Catholics do not worship Mary then why is there a statue of Mary in every single Catholic church?
Care to explain that poster Mary?
@Mary Stanley, I was born and raised Catholic and recieved my 1st communion. I was forced by my parents to do so. My great aunt has been a cloistered nun for just over 50 years, so I DO understand your faith. You say you don't worship Mary, yet you repetitively pray the "Hail Mary" as if she were God. This prayer is not even mentioned in the bible. You didn't even acknowledge Matthew 5:7&8 that sais not to say the same thing over and over again. The biggest problem is that you think Jesus is God, and I could show you dozens of places in the bible that definately proves that He is the son of God (who's name is Jehovah.) In your older version of the "Holy Bible" at Psalms 83:18 it used to say, "Let them know that thou alone, whose name is the Jehovah, art the Most High over all the earth." The original hebrew version of God's name was JHWH. It was written over 7000 times in the old testament, yet most Christians and Catholics have removed his name (which you are supposed sanctify, "Hallow be thy name" as catholics) and replaced it with the title God, Lord, and All Mighty. It's amazing how blind the Catholic faith is to the actual meanings written in the bible. You don't even understand what the Fathers prayer is instructing you to do, and you repeat it over and over again thinking you will be remembered by God for your lengthy use of words. If you would only stop listening to your clergy who is run by Satan and misleading the entire enhabited earth, and do some research on how the Catholic church was formed (by Pagans hell bent on distorting the true word of God), you mind find that you are following Babylon the great instead of God himself. Jesus said: “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.” To have God’s approval, therefore, we must learn what God requires of us and do it. Jesus called those who do not do God’s will “workers of lawlessness.” (Matthew 7:21-23)
I'm not a big fan of religion, but I see no reason to hate on these people or accuse them of the worst crimes imaginable. These are human beings that you don't know. Find some human decency or shut up.
Jock, since you remain voluntarily ignorant, perhaps YOU should shut up. There is a catholic church zero-tolerance policy on pedophiles in the U.S. - but not in countries where mandatory reporting does not exist. Jeepers, why do you think that is? The pedos have found sanctuary where they have unlimited access to children and are safe and protected by the church - allowing them to ruin the lives of children as they see fit. Does that get through to you, dimbo???
well-said... I'm not Catholic (or religious), but a lot of the wholesale demonization of the church here on these boards is very ugly
Who would not blame and complain about the odor of someone who rides the cesspool pump truck ?
joick/Anonymous,
Thanks.
Don't mind these folks, like tanainke and john.
They have no idea what they are ranting about. They only do not like about the Catholic Church what they mistakenly "THINK" that they know.
Jesus said we would be persecuted by people such as these. We are not going away.
These men need deprogramming. They need intensive counseling. They are living their lives based on voodoo, superstition, hobgoblins, fantasms, and imaginary edicts. There is no god, there have always been only human-created deities propped up to control the unwashed, to manipulate the vulnerable, to frighten and delude the uneducated. Get with the program! Look at those idiot old white men in their red dresses and doilies and carboard top hats and gold jewelry! They are vile people! All religions are relics of the Dark Ages, holdovers from unenlightened times. It's a travesty that churches have tax-free status and that people who "work" in churches get any kind of respect. The Catholic church in particular is rooted in secrecy and lies and profligacy; how dare the Vatican perpetuate such opulence while billions suffer worldwide. Don't waste time in prayer and contemplation; live your life DOING THINGS, meaningful things; life is finite, we all die, all living things revert to mere carbon atoms and there's no higher meaning to any of it, but while you are here, CONTRIBUTE and uplift, don't preach and delude! Be of this world! Be of music and frees and laughter and education and giving....and helping. But dump all the god and jesus crap, it's outdated and destructive (oh so destructive; religion is a shackle on the ankle of humankind!).
Amen sister!
"Theres no higher meaning to any of it", Good point, except then you expect me to do wonderful things while I am here.... why? I want to get out there and raise hell with society since nothing has any meaning anyhow. Watch out, here I come baby!!
Rebecka,
The Devil must be proud of you! You are exactly the kind of person, you and those others of same mind, that the Devil loves. I know...you do not believe in the Devil...that is ok, the Devil does not care one hoot if you believe or not, as long as you do his work...that is all he cares about. I see no difference between some men that molest children, and people like you, and the rest of the haters here that preach the inhumanity of HATE . When I first began reading the comments here I wanted to vomit. The hate spewed here is the same as if you had molested those children yourselves, is the hate that starts wars, the hate that creates the conditions for malevolent men such as Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Idi Amin...etc. Don't preach to Catholics giving up their believes and religion ... for what? To lead an empty and bitter life full of hate like some of the posters here? Being hateful is in the same category as being a pedophile. No real difference!