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Shawn Moore / AP
This undated photo provided by Shawn Moore shows his son Josh, 10, holding a rifle his father gave him for his 11th birthday, at their home in Carneys Point, N.J.
The ruddy-cheeked, camouflage-clad boy in the photo smiles out from behind a pair of glasses, proudly holding a gun his father gave him as a present for his upcoming 11th birthday.
The weapon in the photo, posted by his dad on Facebook, resembles a military-style assault rifle but, his father says, is actually just a .22-caliber copy. And that, the family believes, is why child welfare case workers and police officers visited the home in Carneys Point last Friday and asked to see his guns.
New Jersey's Department of Children and Families declined to comment specifically on the case but says it often follows up on tips. The family and an attorney say father Shawn Moore's Second Amendment rights to bear arms were threatened in a state that already has some of the nation's strictest gun laws and is considering strengthening them after December's schoolhouse massacre in Connecticut.
In this case, the family believes someone called New Jersey's anonymous child abuse hotline.
Shawn Moore said he gave his son Josh the gun as a present to use on hunting trips. The elder Moore was at a friend's house when his wife called, saying state child welfare investigators, along with four local police officers, were at the house, asking to inspect the family's guns.
Moore said he called his lawyer Evan Nappen, who specializes in Second Amendment cases, and had him on speakerphone as he arrived at his house in Carneys Point, just across the Delaware River from Wilmington, Del.
"They said they wanted to see into my safe and see if my guns were registered," Moore said. "I said no; in New Jersey, your guns don't have to be registered with the state; it's voluntary. I knew once I opened that safe, there was no going back."
With the lawyer listening in on the phone, Moore said he asked the investigators and police officers whether they had a warrant to search his home. When they said no, he asked them to leave. One of the child welfare officials would not identify herself when Moore asked for her name, he said.
The agents and the police officers left, and nothing has happened since, he said.
"I don't like what happened," he said. "You're not even safe in your own house. If they can just show up at any time and make you open safes and go through your house, that's not freedom; it's like tyranny."
State child welfare spokeswoman Kristine Brown said that when it receives a report of suspected abuse or neglect, it assigns a caseworker to follow up. She said law enforcement officers are asked to accompany caseworkers only if the caseworkers feel their safety could be compromised.
"It's the caseworker's call," she said. "It is important to note the way an investigation begins is through the child abuse hotline. Someone has to call to let us know there is a concern."
Carneys Point Police Chief Robert DiGregorio did not answer a call late Tuesday to his office.
Leave a Comment:
And cue the whack jobs in 4-3-2-1!
ZERO!
It was Haggisbingo and her sidekick, takenaka! And Enema is the one who called the police!
C'mon man. We know how you guys are. It's written all over your faces like slowly dripping semi-clear silicone. ;-)
Good for the father, he knew his rights and didn't back down.
This never would have been an issue if liberals would stop trying to control everyone and tell them how to live and raise their children. These are the same people that think it is a crime to test kids in high school to see if they learned anything...unreal.
Well, now that took longer than I thought! oooooh!, enema, oh, how original. Never heard that one before. (snark!) It's what little children always do when they can't think of anything intelligent - call names! LOL!
Don't remember huh? That was your AKA since the day we met.
Have a nice day!
Hello all you idiots out there that voted for the "liberal" asses. This is what you get and it is only the beginning.
Not even a search warrant and entering someones house. Hm, very nice you dumb Dumbama-nites.
Who can tell me who said both things???
Agent000000007,
"Rule #1 is never agree to a search. police are only looking for evidence to arrest you."
Right! Or, as the lawyers say in broader terms: "Never be a party to your own undoing!"
Here is a young man properly trained in the use and responsibility of a gun (notice his gun NOT on the trigger - he was taught well) but yet some consider this "child abuse". But yet nothing said about the hours of video games many play that gives them points based on how many "kills"?
And liberals want to call a responsible family who own a gun the "crazy" people?
THIS is the warped future we are fighting for in this country.
I am hoping the father learned that posting pics on F/B is a really foolish thing to do. It does not matter what the privacy settings are----use a digital camera----print the pic your self at home-----put it in a nice little frame and sent it to Gramma the old fashioned way.
We are living in a nanny state because we have raised at least one generation of kids (possibly 2) to think they deserve a trophy for existing.
They have little to no conscience, respect, regard for others..... Worse still with the proposed background checks becoming more and more inclusive / restrictive on the people I am worried that counselors will have to report every client they have and every person taking "happy pills" will also have to be reported by the prescribing MD.
It is ugly and going to get uglier.
This entire incident by that caseworker smacks of ideology rather than any genuine concern. At least the police knew enough of the law to not press the issue when the father refused to allow an examination of his guns. Apparently so did this caseworker, knowing full well she overstepped her authority, refused to identify herself.
BTW, Enma4, one too many, now you're a quart short.
Perhaps we should just stop prescribing 'happy pills' to every kid that can't sit still. Guess what parents and docs; kids can't sit still, they don't need drugs because they are just being kids. Try being actual parents ya uppity douchebags. (this was not directed at you lexi)
"Rule #1 is never agree to a search. police are only looking for evidence to arrest you."
I agree with your rule but not your reasoning. The police have a job to do and like all jobs there is room for mistakes.
So I would not refuse a search because I fear the police are trying to get me. I refuse because unless a Judge via a Warrant agrees to the search I like to maintain my privacy. I only had to do this once on a traffic stop. After a little bluster (the old "if you have nothing to hide") the officer finished a ticket and sent me on my way. As I tell my sons both of whom drive, unless you built the car from scratch and have had it under your close supervision for the entire time its existed (AN impossible situation) never consent to a search. Same with my home, your welcome to search it just get a warrant first.
I support the police whole heartedly; however that support does not mean I consent to give up my rights. Laws go both ways, the police have a duty to investigate crime; I have a right to preserve my privacy. Those two are not contradictory.
This has gotten out of hand. Way out of hand.
Nothing has gotten out of hand. Comments on facebook get people fired and posting a pic of your 11 year old son with a GI Joe style assault rifle will get the cops called to your home. You are a sh*tty father and forcing your gun nut job views upon your child is disgusting. This "Dad" is a loser. ZERO.
Yea, the kid looks miserable.
Nice to know that some people really are behind the pathetic nanny state, it shows the loony lefties really do have some support, even if from nutballs.
John, believe what you want, but I disagree. I have seen a police report where one beer can became "beer cans all over", and a statement that they were refused access to any other rooms in the house when they never asked. I have it all on video, and they have a 1.5 million dollar federal lawsuit to deal with. Guess who will win.
Richard, On what basis do you believe the police should have been called (because apparently even they didn't think they should be there)? No one can say any views were forced on the son, except for the family, especially NOT you. The boy is old enough to make decisions, with appropriate oversight, on what hobbies he would like to pursue. But, maybe you think baseball is not appropriate either because it is too "American." Bottomline - You have absolutely no idea what you are talking and most likely do not even have kids, thank God!!!
From the article: "The family and an attorney say father Shawn Moore's Second Amendment rights to bear arms...
There are no Second Amendment rights. The 2nd Amendment is a limitation on government. The right to defend oneself and others against unjustified assault is a human right that existed thousands of years before the Second Amendment was written.
Haha, I like that the dad has a "2nd Amendment specialist" lawyer on speed dial. No, he is not overly paranoid about his guns at all.
No spreading the picture around the web, no cops at the door. This isn't rocket science.
"Put down that gun!, It's not a toy!" was the fathers of yester-year. Now we give assault rifles to 10 year olds. Would be laughable if so many of them didn't turn into killers. I wanted one of those too when I was a kid but my parents weren't completely insane like "honestdebate" might be.
If you think that this is a responsible gift to give to a child then you might be a D*ckneck.
AND YOU ARE HOPING THAT I DONT HAVE KIDS XDDDDDD
HIlarious, sounds like you'd crack a child a beer strait out of the womb!
I hope you aren't a father either. So right back at ya
Just getting dumber and dumber every post aren't ya.
You're mistaken. It's the conservatives trying to run everyone's lives, trying to control everyone. Not the liberals.
Are you a teacher? I'm betting you're not.
If you were a teacher, you'd know that standardized testing DOES NOT SHOW that a student has learned anything. At best, it shows you if a student has memorized things. Memorization is not cognition. You can memorize anything, and not have a single clue what it means or how to use it.
These teachers are trying to tell you that "teaching to the test" is not education. These teachers are trying to tell you that standardized testing doesn't reveal cognition. You should be agreeing with them, if you actually want students to comprehend and utilize what they're taught, instead of just spewing memorized factoids or choosing A, B, C, or D.
I hope the words I used weren't too big for you.
richardharrow
Have a problem with reading comprehension there, Richard?
The problem is not with this dad, it is with the police and the child services people who thought they could force themselves into the home without a warrant and DEMAND to search the home and DEMAND that the LOCKED gun cabinet be opened for their inspection of the SECURED firearms so they could check the REGISTRATION of the firearms in a state that DOES NOT REQUIRE REGISTRATION.
Now if you are going to demand that people abide by the law you have to demand that the LAW abide by the law. If you don't like the law, change it. People like you who want to decide what everyone else should do... the "do it my way or else" mob... is the reason the second amendment needs to be upheld at all costs.
Jason said:
Yes he IS paranoid about an attack against his guns as am I. Are you NOT reading the news lately? Of COURSE we are aware of the attack on our personal freedoms and 2nd amendment rights and I give this guy credit for thinking ahead.
I need to do the same thing and put an attorney in my speed dial as well. Because an attack against MY guns are just around the corner too.
This is flat wrong. She should be fired. This is a person who feels she is above those she is supposed to serve. She shouldn't be in this job. Never allow anyone official in your home who refuse to show ID.
I'm disgusted with the @!$%# who called CPS in the first place. Obviously they know nothing about what they called about.
As for the police and CPS it sure appears they were willing to bully their way into this house without cause and probably would have if the lawyer hadn't stopped them. And these people wonder why people don't trust them.
No one forced anything. They ASKED if they could come in, and the wife or husband let them. Then they ASKED to see the guns to see if they are registered, which the husband denied. Then they left. Where is the problem exactly? If this picture was posted, no one ever even bothered checking on the situation at the home, then this kid went to school one day with the gun and shot 30 people, everyone would be blaming the authorities for not looking into the situation. Can't have it both ways.
Yep, being against murdering babies is "controlling everything" to a liberal. Banning what people; eat, drink, smoke, use, see, say, think, own is not controlling though is it?
I wasn't aware the tests were all spelling tests, I thought they were math (which you don't memorize) and English (which you don't memorize). I guess no body ever taught you the difference between learning and memorizing.
That's the union propaganda speaking so they never have to raise the bar.
Sorry if some of us actually care about education and not, well, whatever it is you libs actually care about. I was never "taught for the test" yet I always did well on standardized tests, and I wasn't a good student. A good teacher will teach you how to apply the principles you are suppose to learn so you can use them through-out life, a bad teacher (like you must be) likes to believe that passing everyone means you are a good teacher.
Please explain to all of us how graduating a student that has the aptitude of a 9th grader is good for the kid. You must have gotten that explanation from the brainwashing propaganda, right?
And whoever the kooky leftist that called DCYF was, qualified it.
" it's like tyranny."
No, it's not. It's "like" someone being concerned for the welfare of a child.
Apparently it's a good thing too. He needed him. You're not paranoid if it's true. In this case it was true wasn't it?
Dick Harrow - I do have a son, thank you. He is currently in the Navy and at the top of his class in school. He even had a .22 caliber rifle growing up (which I kept locked when not being used - and, NO, he didn't have a key). He is not 21 yet, so I have not given him a beer ever!!! He will just have to wait for that, unless he deploys (to protect the right for folks like you to say whatever pops into their heads) somewhere the drinking is lower and is legally allowed to drink.
ProBusiness - No one is attacking your or his guns. Simply due diligence of the child welfare department when receiving an anonymous report. Better they follow up on these things than not, and then something crazy happen. Don't post pictures of your kid in camouflage with an assault rifle out to the public if you don't want anyone inquiring about it. I agree the woman should have gave her name when asked, but lets face it, this guy has d-bag written all over him, and I am sure was acting up to that title.
Gneisenau - No, its a little paranoid. Don't think he needed a lawyer to tell the cops something he already knew. That he did not have to allow them to look at the guns. If he has that type of lawyer on speed dial, he is already well aware of his rights I am sure.
Because the child was holding a rifle? My dad gave me my first rifle when I was five. You take care of your kids, and I will take care of mine. Sounds like maybe your kids might not be "responsible" enough to own a firearm.
It's just a terrible father forcing his beliefs down a childs' throat. He went right to the media for a little spotlight to share his whacked out beliefs. I feel sorry for the kid.
honestdebate - Bringing up the soda ban does not bode well for you argument about liberals since Bloomberg was a Repub. from 2001-2007 before turning Independent. Dummy.
Well steelers2103 Go ahead and post a link to a pic of your son when he was 11 with this style gun or would you say that you are not a big enough idiot to do something like that? If that's the case then why are you defending this idiot? Maybe because you are an irrational gun nut? I'd believe so, Dick-ler2103
And yet, he is a liberal.
You mean what liberals have public schools do every damn day?
"It's what little children always do when they can't think of anything intelligent - call names!" and that's how enma starts the thread. By being childish and calling names.
I've owned guns since I was 5. And i have never killed anyone. Go figure. Way to go , Dad! Teach the boy right, and he'll never go wrong.
If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to hide.
put a burka on that kid and he looks like the child terrorists we all say are "brainwashed"
this is the just the white red neck variety
Richard said:
Ummmmm, excuse me - did you say HE went to the media for a little spotlight? You mean the guy who got a phone call from his wife saying the government was there wanting to search his property and see his guns? You mean THAT guy?
He did nothing wrong. And the picture SURE doesn't look like he is forcing his beliefs down a child's throat. That kid looks happier than a kid on Christmas morning.
And pushing whacked out beliefs? Like schools telling our kids there is no god even though the child lives in a religious family? You mean THOSE whacked out beliefs?
Or our schools teaching our kids songs about how great Obama is? You mean THOSE whacked out beliefs?
You mean when government tells us we can't have a manger scene in a public square, kids can't pray in school, but then decide that a terrorist in Guantanamo Bay is entitled to "praying time" WITH other terrorists in the prison? You mean THOSE whacked out beliefs?
We certainly live in a upside down world where a parent taking his child hunting a buying him his own gun is considered "whacked out" but yet at the same time a bible is NOT allowed in schools but having a Koran in school and teaching the elementary school children just a "little" about Islam is okay.
You mean THOSE whacked out beliefs?
Harrow, You are now trying to change the argument since you lost the previous one. I am not saying the dad should have posted the picture; I am saying there is no problem with the kid being taught the proper use of a firearm. As for posting pictures - I do not do that for many reasons, the first of which is that I have no Facebook/Twitter/etc. accounts. If I did put up pictures, I certainly would not include my kids. And as for your previous point about him going to the media, how do you know that he is just not trying to shed a little light on an obviously out of control leftist system? It is the one thing liberals fear the most - TRUTH!!!
"I don't like what happened," he said. "You're not even safe in your own house. If they can just show up at any time and make you open safes and go through your house, that's not freedom; it's like tyranny."
========================
But that didn't happen. You questioned. They answered. They left. If you righteous indignation should be directed anywhere, shouldn't it be at whomever made the call to them in the first place?
For the writer of the article, what does the 2nd amendment rights of the Father have to do with giving an assault rifle looking weapon to an 11 year old and posting the pic on facebook?
Also, nice to see the family have their 2nd amendment expert lawyer on speed dial. Guess the economy really walloped you guys!
ProBusiness - You are EXACTLY the type of person us "liberals" associate as "gun nuts" You come on here for defending gun ownership like you were one of the original founding fathers, YET you always end up also wanting to B*itch about the government eliminating religion from public domains. YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS! Either you are for abiding by the founding fathers or you are not. Separation of church and state buddy. Religion never should have been in schools or public to begin with. Keep your religion in your house and at your church and out of everyone elses face. We do not share your religious beliefs, and that is not a big deal. It does not invalidate your beliefs.
I don't own a gun. But what was done here is a clear violation of the rights of this famly and the person who made the phone call should be taken out into the street, horse whipped and put in stocks in public view for 24 hours.
The cops were stupid. Family services were stupid. This entire episode was stupid. I am glad to hear this man had a lawer to assist him.
Never, never, never talk to cops without a lawyer. You are entitled to one reguardless of what the cops say. If they tell you, a lawyer is not needed, then you do need one. Never cooperate unless you have a lawyer. Cops will lie, and twist what you say to make their case.
In this case, the cops were wrong. The homeowner/parent was right. Again, I do not have guns, but the rights of this family were almost trampled on.
Well done citizen.
Neale Osborn
I've owned guns since I was 5. And i have never killed anyone. Go figure. Way to go , Dad! Teach the boy right, and he'll never go wrong.
========
All do respect, this is an absolute statement that can't be guaranteed.
Probusiness, you can teach your kids all the fairy tale creationist nonsense you like, just keep it out of the schools. I prefer my kids to learn facts, not religious dogma.
richardharrow
"It's just a terrible father forcing his beliefs down a childs' throat. He went right to the media for a little spotlight to share his whacked out beliefs. I feel sorry for the kid"
"posting a pic of your 11 year old son with a GI Joe style assault rifle will get the cops called to your home. You are a sh*tty father and forcing your gun nut job views upon your child is disgusting. This "Dad" is a loser. ZERO."
The kid happens to ENJOY hunting and target shooting-saw an interview on TV with both father and son-the kid wants to hunt and shoot-he enjoys it-the father is NOT forcing the kid to do anything he does not WANT to do-posting a picture on Facebook is supposed to be shared between friends-NOT get jackbooted thugs showing up at your home demanding to search it,and check your guns to see if they are "registered" in a state that does NOT require registration-a kid posing for a picture holding a .22 is NOT a reason for either the police,or childrens services to get involved-nor is a picture on that shows ZERO illegal activity-a reason for ANY law enforcement agency to visit your home.
You are the loser-the zero-hope you never have any children-you would be a real dick as a father!
It is my sincere hope that someone unjustly calls child services on you or someone you care about someday.
I mean it. I hope you never see your kid or grandkid again because the state oversteps its bounds.
Hey Dick, oh, I mean Richard, wait you are one in the same. You are just butt-hurt because mommy and daddy wounldn't give you a gun when you were growing up....get over it Dick, nobody cares what you think.
Hey Enema, you are the first whack job. No need to count.
For those who don't know or fear guns, do you understand that is a .22 caliber. It's just barely up above a pellet gun? Ignore all that plastic crap to make it look cool, it's a semi-automatic, which means it only shoots when you pull the trigger.
2nd, how many of you looked inside the clip area? Do you see any rounds in it? I do not, I see a spring that goes all the way to the barrel/ bolt mechanism. At the age of 11, I had shot a nice 6 point buck on my parents farm. I'm probably one of the most "Left" people you'll know and even I am pissed about the gun issue.
You can background check all you want, but until you address the Mental Health of purchasers, you're just blowing smoke up people's @sses. I think we need to find out WHY these nutty MoFo's want to kill a crapload of people. I'm sure I'm like most people and wouldn't mind a couple people dead, but I'm not going to ruin my life, for them. Why are our children hell bent on taking as many people out with them as they leave life? That's the magic question, not how many bullets in a clip, nor how many rounds shot per minute.
And just for the record, you do know more people are killed with a hammer than a gun, right?
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats
While I firmly believe in gun control laws (notice I said CONTROL not BAN) this situation was un-called for. The 2nd amendment is there for a reason. I do think that there should be a mandatory register and background checks for every sale or transfer of a gun (also and background check on every member of the household), but guns should NOT be banned.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you... as evidenced by the fact that child showed up at his door over a photograph and the state tried to abuses their right to search a home.
Yup... nothing to worry about at all.
Here is the non-emergency phone number for the Carneys Point Police Dept 1-856-299-1212. Perhaps placing a phone call to them on a daily basis and inquiring to the status of this event would be prudent. I'd like to also know if any disciplinary action will be levied on the social worker who refused to ID herself as well as refusing to have her picture taken or is this an acceptable standard?
So I gotta ask- what's the point of taking a simple rifle and making it look like something it's not?
I suppose that's what I find to be so unattractive by some of the extreme gun righters (and no, I'm not a liberal gun thief or whatever)- the glamor, being showy, the intimidation attempts, making it sexy, trendy. Seems like it comes from insecurity. I mean seriously, I don't feel the need to do some sort of FB spread of my arsenal just because I have a gun. Just like a truly tough and powerful person doesn't need to tell everyone how tough and powerful they are, its saved for when it matters.
Anyway, carry on.
Richard - let me ask you this: when do you think someone should be taught to use a gun?
A) Never
B) Only when they're an official adult
C) Only if they're in the military or law enforcement
D) 10-12 years of age, so they can develop a proper respect for guns and not fear them their whole life
I'm very glad my father chose D for me.
Child welfare officers, do not need a warrant to enter your home if any complaint is made to them in regard to children in your home; they do not have a right to search; the Police officers did not have a right to demand to see his guns; I have a picture of my dad and I hunting when I was about 13, today they would probably take me away and put me in the custody of child welfare, we are very fast losing all our rights under the Constitution.
W.Gibbons, when you post a picture on the public internet, you are advertising something which should be private to the world. Someone else saw that, and reported it anonymously. It would not be any different than hitting your kid in public, and having a witness report it. What specific rights were violated here? Can you specifically state one of their rights that were violated? They violated their own right to privacy when they posted the picture on the internet. They welcomed that attention. That is their own fault. Now I ask again... What right of theirs was violated by someone aside from themselves??
Haven't lost an arguement yet Steeler2106 and didn't change the conversation at all. Great dodge.
Probusiness church should NOT be in schools period. And I will say that until I meet my maker "Mr. Flying Spegghetios" You demonstrated that you have no tolerance and that is exactly what liberals support-Tolerance. Tolerance to all religions races and creeds-unlike your BS banter. Why have any church in schools when you've got A-holes like you and the guy who gives "Terminator" style guns to kids showing up at our schools with yer guns and your child molesting priests preaching God to our teachers and dismissing science as fiction. We are tolerant to all but the intolerant. Like you and "your whacked out beliefs".
Like I said, I'd want one of those guns when I was a kid but there was no one dumb enough in my household to do such a thing; unlike your irresponsible parents Probusiness and Larry.
I would be a dick as a father? Because I wouldn't give my 11 year old son a gun? Maybe your kids got you by the balls Larry but I know who should have the authority to make decisions in a Parent/child relationship.
They left because he had an attorney on the line. Not everyone would have been able to produce that little hat trick. The police who were there should have had enough grounding in the points of law to know they could not force themselves into the home without a warrant, and that they could not force the owners to open the locked gun safe to check the "valid registration" of firearms that are not required to be registered in the state where they work.
And the employee of child services had NO valid excuse for not providing her name to the owners of the home she was invading.
I must have missed where he stating being a creationist. Or did you just make that up because you are a bigot who hates everyone with faith because they don't fit your mold?
Screminimimi, the police are allowed to ask, and you are allowed to refuse, just as happened here. The attorney on the phone did not cause anything at all. I never read anything about the police forcing anything at all. You don't need an attorney to know that you do not have to allow a search of your home if the police don't have a warrant.
It's just a terrible father forcing his beliefs down a childs' throat. He went right to the media for a little spotlight to share his whacked out beliefs. I feel sorry for the kid.
Kind of like gay parents raising a kid and forcing acceptance of homosexuality down the kid's throat. Or getting an abortion and explaining to the living sibling why you just murdered their brother/sister. Or raising children on welfare while you do nothing to improve your life and forcing poverty down their throat. Or coming across the border illegally and then explaining to the 18 year old you brought when (s)he was 2 why they aren't a legal citizen and can't vote (legally anyways).
In other words, @!$%# you richardharrow. Please don't reproduce.
Ain't white people special - as in special education, intellectually challenged, & just plain stupid?
Trust2112 - I believe you are "left" as much as I believe your made up stats. Maybe you should actually follow your link. Hammers DO NOT kill more people:
"According to FBI data, 8,583 people were murdered with firearms in 2011. Only 496 people were killed by blunt objects, a category that includes not just hammers and baseball bats but crowbars, rocks, paving stones, statuettes, and electric guitars."
Also:
"Those statistics are for intentional killings only. What about accidental deaths? According to data from the CDC, 606 people were killed in gun accidents in 2010. The number of people accidentally killed by any piece of sporting equipment was 18. Four people were killed by nonpowered hand tools such as hammers."
Can we please retire this lame, blatantly false statistic that gun wack-a-doos keep trying to throw out.
I'm wondering if Enma3 meant cue the whack job comments that would be coming in 4-3-2-1 that seem to come after any article no matter the topic.
Reading the first set of comments that disparage people's characters, parenting skills, intelligence and such kind of make a point.
Alex, too late. I am your father. So stop acting like such a bastard.
It's just a terrible father forcing his beliefs down a childs' throat. He went right to the media for a little spotlight to share his whacked out beliefs. I feel sorry for the kid.
Yup, your father said that. Hell, he might have had a friend call it in. Those are "friends" on Facebook right? Then he uses this to stand up on his soap box. Pathetic. And you support him Alex. I am sorry to have you as a son.
richardharrow
A father teaching his kids how to shoot, buying them their first rifles, and enjoying a hobby with them are some of the best things a father can do for his kids.
You teach your kids how to hate and judge, we will teach ours a fine American family tradition.
I don't think we have to worry about Richard being a father - I don't he chose the procreation path...
I hope the media keeps a copy of this photo as it will probably be seen again in about 6-8 years when this kid makes headlines in being the sole suspect in an alleged mass shooting. He looks like the type.
Dingle, Well I have taught my son Alex well then. He hates and judges BIG TIME. Weird how he is a CON like you. Can you explain that? maybe because that is the real American family tradition and Progressives try to move forward. Yup, sounds about right. Good try changing history.
LOL Alaska Girl...seriously tho :(
Do we see the subtle wording by the left? They weren't shoot by guns or even killed, they were :murdered". Even if it was in self-defense or a police shooting.
Nice try with the subtle propaganda, are you related to Goebbels? He could teach you some tricks.
We know for a fact if he were black and got killed by a white guy or a cop NBC would be showing a picture of him when he was 11.
Maybe he just hates his father? I can see why, he is a simpleton.
RichardSmoker said:
Look at the entire picture of the boy holding the rifle, and focus on something other than just the gun for a change. It doesn't really look like the kid's father is forcing anything on him. He looks genuinely happy. Ever seen a picture of a kid being forced to do something he/she really didn't want to do? It shows.
As for the dad going right to the media to snag the spotlight.... I'm sure the father wishes this whole ordeal never happened. What did happen was wrong. There is nothing about the photo that suggests the boy was in any danger, so the visit from the social worker and the police was unwarranted. Going to the media wasn't so the father could have his "15 minutes". It was an attempt to point out the lunacy of the whole situation and hold an overreaching government employee accountable.
AlaskaGirl-759554
Just like the millions and millions of kids who learned how to shoot at 11 years old that didn't go on to become mass murderers? A .22 is a great rifle for a kid. Your fear and demonizing of guns is irrational, it's called paranoia.
Hate, hate, hate. Is that all your type knows? What a disgusting thing to say. He looks like a typical, innocent 11 year old boy to me.
UMMM, There is just a little piece of information that this article left out. I have read another article that states that this man is a certified NRA weapons safety and handling instructor, (he teaches folks to safely and accurately shoot their weapons without killing innocent bystanders) AND he is a state certified weapons instructor. Now for those of you who think he is displaying paranoia by having a 2nd amendment lawyer on retainer? You just don't have all of the information. I'm quite sure that as an instructor of the NRA, he is thoroughly versed in what the government is attempting to do. I'm also fairly certain that said attorney is associated with the NRA. I'm also fairly certain that the attorney in the article is not JUST a 2nd amendment attorney, but rather he is an attorney who has specialized knowledge of the 2nd amendment. He is also quite possibly on retainer by the NRA specifically for these types of encounters for their people, and not on retainer directly by him.
So yeah, all of you who want to cast aspersions on this man when you don't have all of the information can just STFU! Buch of ignorant Sons of BEYACHES anyway. Bunch of liberal pukes is all you are.
Each and EVERY citizen should be standing and applauding this man for standing UP for his rights, rather than laying down and letting liberal pukes step on them.
Besides the two black men a few years ago who went on a shooting spree, can you recall in the last decade there being a mass killing by a black guy? No. All of the recent mass shootings have been by white men/boys. I think, without doing the research, that nearly every mass shooting has been committed by a white male.
He looks like a typical, innocent 11 year old boy to me.
Yeah, so did other mass shooters in their prepubescent photos.
I don't have a fear of guns and I do support the 2nd amendment. That's all I will say on the subject.
just waiting for obama to make his usual remark...if he had the cops come to your house to do and illegal search for a gun...it would probably look like this...he'd probably call it undocumented search...paranoid ass holes in jersy much...
Dear Gunaphobes,
My dad taught me how to use a rifle when I was around 8 or 9 y/o. I got my first rifle for Christmas when I was 11 y/o. I've never used a gun improperly. Not once. Not to brag, but I'm a pretty fair shot with rifles and handguns. Shotguns, not so much (because I am cross dominant). We always did, and in adulthood I always do, treat every firearm as loaded; all firearms and ammunition are secure at all times, and we know the status and location of every firearm we have in the household or in the vehicles (it's legal to have firearms in vehicles in my state, but there are laws about how they are kept in the vehicle.)
We're not right wing nuts, we're not crazies, etc. We're just normal people who have friends, mow our lawns, walk the dogs, vote, etc.
Of interest, two neighborhood crimes (2 separate occasions) were stopped because we are gun owners.
In one of the cases, seven people with felony warrants were arrested in an apartment where the cops found a would-be burglar in a break in next door, as they had traced said crook to the apartment with the other crook scum.
The sheriff came by later and he thanked my dad personally. He told my dad, "you wouldn't recognize him (the crook) now. He's in custody, and he's going through withdrawal."
So...tell me again how limiting my 2nd Amendment rights is good for reducing crime?
Jason said:
How come liberals always seem to talk about "free choice" and "discrimination" but yet believe they are authorized to tell a child they CANNOT bring their own bible to school?
The difference is conservatives believe you can do what you want. You want to have sex with a same-sex partner? I don't care. Just don't tell my child is is "right".
You want to not teach your child about god? That's fine - just don't tell my child that they cannot.
You want to not have your child see a manger scene? That's okay with me - just don't tell my child they cannot see it either.
You don't want you or your child to own or hold a gun? Then don't. But don't tell me I can't.
You see you imply conservatives are not the tolerant ones but incredibly mistaken. We don't care what YOU do just don't tell me what I or my family can do.
to prevent homicides. Done. Sincerely Gunaphobe Richard Harrow
inMYday
Nooooooo!!! That's so evil!! Your father should be arrested!!! You probably hate your dad for forcing his beliefs on you and now you're a mass murderer!!! Noooooooooo!!!!!
@Alaska,
can you recall in the last decade there being a mass killing by a black guy?
Ignorance knows no bounds, apparently. Are you aware of the MASSIVE amounts of KILLINGS that occur every day in urban environs? Yes, I fully understand your point about 'mass killings', but why is it any different when it comes to just your 'garden variety' (Thanx Uncle Joe!) loss of life? Over 500 killed in Chicago (gasp!....does that make me racist to mention that?). Basically, either come to the table with valid, rational points or leave your 'opinion' for just that. Your opinion.
RichardSmoker says:
Yeah.... how's that working out for Chicago?
So you admit you can't tell a mass murderer by looking at a picture of them as a kid, even if they're holding a rifle?
Maybe you should send the family an apology.
Glad to see that you finally came around.
Alaskagirl,
Are you saying we need to enact some sort of ban on white males, which would reduce violent crime?
What part of Alaska are you from, or do you truly live in Alaska?
I'm from a small place way up on the Kuskokwim river. Guns are commonplace. Bears are commonplace throughout much of Alaska, and they are not like the little wimpy black bears in the lower 48. Moose are commonplace too, with caribou, etc. all of which can be dangerous game.
I give you credit for having a different viewpoint than most of the people in your state. You must be brave, or blindly idealistic (not that that's a bad thing!)
So being a white male at any age means you are going to be profiled by the left as a mass murderer? Brilliant!!!
BUT BUT gay-marriage and abortion and...and...and...
Saved the lefties time in going to their only 2 fall-back arguments to prove conservatives want to control everything in everyone's lives.
Probusiness, the left's rhetoric is riddled with contradictions, some of which you pointed out very well.
Good post.
Mr. Harrow and Ms. Alaska,
You've also done an excellent job of providing examples of single-minded agendas that ignore facts and logic. Thank you!
While you are correct, had a babysitter or an older sibling... someone other than the wife... been in the home, they could have been intimidated by the official presence and given in to the demands to be allowed inside without a warrant.
I stand by my assertion that this had gotten out of hand.
Universal background checks and magazines limited to 15 rounds in Colorado!!!!!
Score another win for the good guys!!! That satiates me. If all of the U.S had this we may see a decline in homicides and mass murders. Can only hope for...wait for it...CHANGE.
Jealousy will get you NO WHERE. Yeah, that kid REALLY looks like it is being forced on him.
So, who's YOUR daddy?
Who the hell are YOU to judge??? I bet you watch CNN with your children & cram YOUR liberal beliefs down THIER throats on a daily basis. How many times have you said that "Bush Lied!!' or "Reublicans are greedy,rich, evil war mongers " or better yet. "Anyone who owns a gun & believes in the 2nd ammendment is a gun-nut & will shoot you!" But thats ok because your a proud liberal democrat right & are NEVER wrong? You sir are the WORST kind of hypocrite!
STFUP & stick your head back up deep between your buttocks where it belongs
1) The police were not called Child Servicesw was, CHild Services can ask for police protection if they are concerned for their safety and that is what involved the police.
2) The families rights were not violated - they let them in the house voluntarily, and when the Father excercised his right to request a warrant, and without that warrant to refuse a search every one left. Where was the violation of his rights? (Yeah they were inconvenienced but their rights were never violated).
Actually the FBI and the Census bureau list "murder by firearm" separately from other forms of murder, and they do maintain this distinction for all forms of murder. Whether it be by hands and feet, knife, Bat/club, hammer etc. They also list total number of shooting deaths by police separately, as well as total number of accidental deaths, suicides, and all of the rest. They even total deaths by trafic accident, drunk drivers and more. The number listed as just over 8,000 for the year 2011 is about 1000 less than 2010. What nobody cares to point out is that the number of deaths by rifle of ANY kind is less than 400. Fists, hammers and baseball bats ALL account for more than that number EACH.
on average, more than 7500 of the annual yearly average of gun "murders" occur at the end of a handgun.
The FBI states that more than 48% of ALL crime is commited by gangs and gang members nationally, with the number above 90% in many cities and regions.
The gun of choice predominately throughout the gangs is the handgun. They are relatively cheap, Ammo is relatively cheap, They are relatively easy to get, and they are much easier to conceal and use to their purposes.
When one really truly starts to dissect and digest all of the information on this issue, it makes it quite dificult to give credence to ANYTHING that the liberal progressive gun grabbing pussies say or do. It also makes one of my intelligence ask myself what the government is actually trying to accomplish.
I mean,,,,, Why try to take the long guns, when it is the handguns that cause the most pain for our mothers and fathers, family members and friends? (could it be the very real ability of these guns to provide "We the People" the means by which to defend ourselves against,,,,,,,,tyranny?)
Why do they insist on attempting to make outlaws of law abiding citizens, when they won't even address the VERY issue of gang crime and violence? After all they could eliminate at least 50% of all gun related murders just by addressing that issue alone.
Doesn't that make ANY of you liberals ask yourselves the same question? Doesn't that make any of you who are sleeping through this current attempt to usurp your rights wonder what their agenda really is?
Wake up people and stand with those who would preserve your freedoms.
Face it, Death IS the single greatest law of the universe. Everything, and everyone IS dying. We will ALL die. There is absolutely NO way around that truth. I don't care how you slice it or dice it, you too SHALL die some day.
The key is not how, or when, or why we die. Rather it is how we live. I prefer to live as a free man, and not one subjugated by a tyrannous government.
I am not a big fan of guns, and no kid should OWN a gun - and I doubt that this kid actually owns it his Dad does. If it is truly a 22 (and I have no reason to doubt it) a 22 is the type of rifle a kid would learn to hunt with- and under proper supervision that makes a lot of sense 10-12 is probably the right age to teach your kid gun and hunting safety. True it looks like a scary gun, but looks can be decieving and just because something looks scary is not a reason to ban it, or assume it is dangerous. (heck I hate heightws and to me bridges are scary - do I think we should ban bridges --- welllll maybe - of course not>)
@RichardHarrow,
Score another win for the good guys!!!
Although I understand you and your troll-ish tendencies, I have to comment. Ya got me. Uhhh, you consider yourself to be 'one of the good guys?'. Am I to infer that you would classify those opposed to be one of 'the bad guys?'.
Okay Contrarian001, ban hand guns. Lead the masses on that one. I think it will be a long shot but I like where you are going.
YoudahoSteven-I bought my Son AlexM a new Playstation. I'm not trying to turn him into a mass murderer.
dk227ADND-
"But thats ok because your a proud liberal democrat right & are NEVER wrong!"
You are Speghetti Monster damn right!!!!
And the libs claim to be the intellectual authority on all things. Just because you learned a word from the dictionary it doesn't mean you have the ability to use it appropriately. There is still the small matter of context.
AmericanDefender9- If you are going to get into the matter of semantics behind a common saying then I have already lost ya. Throw your hate at me. Or feel free to comment on the pic of a child with a gun bigger than his body.
Dingle-I am satiated. Aka satisfied. Too hard for ya? This is what we were asking for. Not for EVERYONE to turn in their guns. Universal background checks and limitations to magazine rounds. I am satiated. Its a word. Learn em. Do I have to edit my use of semantics above for you too? Here, it means-the meaning of words. NP
Kynetick: and I bet you grade your students schoolwork with a purple pen, no red marks for your kids, and definately dont give them an F for failure, just pat them on the back and tell them "at least you made an effort and that's all that matters!"
Probably the person who called CPS was the parent of a friend of this child who saw this picture and started worrying that this kid might bring the gun to a play date. Children around this age no matter how well brought up can not be trusted to be responsible with a deadly weapon! Parents should know they have a responsibility to keep other children safe from their children. They can and will be held responsible if their child through their negligent parenting skills ended up doing harm to another innocent person. I would be concerned too if I saw my child's friends being gifted a dangerous weapon and it presented as if it were a toy. Also all the comments here declaring this to be an infringement on rights are rediculous. It looks to me like it is an example of your rights being "protected" since simply knowing the law allowed this man and his child to go about their irresponsible behavior. A citizen had a concern, the CPS and the police tried to investigate but the law thwarted getting any info. NRA you won this one!
P.S The fact that they make a .22 look like an M-16 to me is treating it like it is a toy. It is still a dangerous weapon. What is the reasoning behind making this rifle look more menacing than it is? To sell more, to make it more fun? Neither are reasons that are acceptable except for toy products.
Hey Guys,
Chill for a moment. The guys rights were not "trampled upon" the case worker was following up on a lead as is her legal duty. This could have been a nut with a gun, So she asked for an escort, which was her right. The man's guns were locked up as they should have been, and he declined to open his safe, which was his right, and the officers and the case worker left. Why are heads exploding over this?
But for the record, imagine what might have been averted if someone had tipped the police off to what was going on in Adam Lanza's house before he took it to the next level.
I think they should think twice about posting thing on face book. Can you spell home invasion.
^^^couple good posts right there @maninjapan and @Frozencarbonite
DingleB, maybe they need to learn the word, "specious," as it is the perfect adjective to describe their argument.
(1.3 Million lefties are googling "specious" right now)
richardharrow
Context: the words or phrases surrounding another specific word or passage. Too hard for ya?
@richardharrow,
Absolutely not. We are not talking about semantics. We are also not talking about throwing of hate or any other attempted diversions. What I am inquiring, respectfully and directly I may add, is do you honestly believe that you are in the 'right' or 'good' and that those who dissent are in the 'wrong' or 'bad? It is a simple question based upon your statement. No clouding of the issue or semantics, as it were, but rather stand by what you've referenced.
You can add up all those murdered in killing sprees by whites in this country and it wouldn't even come close to one year of homicides committed by gangs in either Chicago or L.A.
As for RichardHarrow......wow. These people aren't "giving guns to an 11 year old" and saying have at it son, go shoot something up. The kid has access only when the parents allow during an organized hunt or range trip. You are an interesting species sir.
Law abiding citizen = 1 pt
leftist liberal tyrants = 0 pts are these people even aware they support tyranny? they came to my home once, what arrogance they never came back.
richardharrow,
You are just full of self-righteous opinion, ignorance and lies.
Kind of like every parent who instructs their children on: religion, politics, sexuality, etc...? What a bastard for teaching his child about guns and exercising their Constitutional rights.
The fathers of yester-year were more likely to instruct their children on the use of guns, since many kids went hunting as part of supplying the family with meat. Perhaps that doesn't happen in your suburbanite world but it was and is common in rural areas.
There is the crux of the problem. You libtards are entirely too wrapped up in what a gun looks like.
I don't hear any tolerance from you when it comes to a father exercising his Constitutional rights and instructing his son in the same. Typical of out of control libtards, waving a flag of tolerance while bashing those who don't agree with them.
Of course, since we know that people intent on committing gun violence will obey new gun laws over the gun laws they already ignore. Live in your fairytale world. Murders have already been cut in half over the last 20 years. A continued decline and fascist morons like you will try to credit some new gun laws as being responsible.
BTW, I am all for universal background checks, as long as they are not cost prohibitive to the seller or buyer.
JohnLaz and you are an interesting fece.
A.D.9 It's a figure of speech but I will be more than happy to indulge you. We all argue our points and think that we are "right". So yes, I think that there should be universal background checks and limitations on magazines. Do I think that there is good and evil? That is mere solipsism. So if you wish to look this far into my use of "win for the good guys" then I humbly recant my celebration speech. I would like to say "YAY" instead if that is okay?
Hmmmmmmm,
So, now our government officials don't have to identify themselves as they perform illegal searches of citizen's private homes.
And some of you buffoons what to give more control to our government?
IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!
God help and save America, you may be our only hope for real change.
richardharrow---Got my first gun at eight, really must make you libbies mad someone does something you do not agree with. It seems to me if you do not have a warrant stay the heck out of someones home. It is in the Constitution much to the chagrin of liberals. You raise your kids a certain way great for you but their are millions of others out there who raise their kids the way they want. You speak of parents teaching their kids the wrong way, what the heck makes you a frigging expert. Did you find some guide or something, maybe you should share it.
JasonFinPhilly24 Comment collapsed by the community
Haha, I like that the dad has a "2nd Amendment specialist" lawyer on speed dial. No, he is not overly paranoid about his guns at all.
If he carries conceiled then he should have a "2nd Amendment specialist". Don't know if he does but everyone need a lawyer that knows how to defend you should you ever have to defend yourself with deadly force. I need to get one myself...
Cops knew they were "Violating" his rights. They just hope they can bully you into submission. Cops lie their @sses off in courts, they aren't there to protect, nor serve. They are the strong arm for the Courts and all they want is YOUR money. Can't pay up? Go too jail.
Frozencarbonite---No the person who called more than likely was a so called concerned citizen who had nothing better to do. Like the nosey neighbor who sticks their nose into all the other neighbors business just because she is concerned about their welfare. Like I said has nothing better to do.
Hmm...obviously this kid has more sense then some of your anti-gun spokes people eh <<cough>>Feinstein<<cough>>?? Seems to me he's properly holding the rifle, with it POINTED AWAY FROM PEOPLE AND FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER.
Looks to me like he was properly taught how to handle by his parents....oh my...what will the world come to?? "Libertards" is right. sheesh.
HI Irvmani,
I got my first gun at 6. And I still don't see anything wrong with the social working checking out this lead.
THe case worker was doing her job. If she hadn't and "something" had happened, we'd all be all over her and that includes you. The plan is to check out a situation before it explodes, not after. That is what she did.
Papa Moore got the 15 minutes he seems to have been fishing for. Seriously, after all the kids shooting up kids stories we read about why post a picture like that? Sure its his right, and it was the case workers responsibility to make sure that he wasn't a nut endangering a child (and the rest of us).
No ones rights were violated. This was like the police pulling you over because you are driving funny. I see more justification in this than I do in "stop and frisk".
Richardharrow: By your postings it appears that you are terrified of firearms. His father is teaching him the proper way to respect firearms. Did you notice that the boy's finger was aside the triggerguard? Probably not, because you have no knowledge of proper firearm safety. How does it feel to be less educated than a 5th grader?
@richardharrow,
Much obliged. My point being alot of posters on here resort to being 'snarky', sarcastic or seem to enjoy coming across as presumptuous without seemingly expressing that these new legislations (as well as any others on any topic) have a direct effect on all of us...regardless of political affiliation or who we 'rah-rah-rah' for. I assume that when you talk of magazine limitations, you're implying capacity. Ok, putting aside human to human use as any argument, living in rural northern MN I can tell you that it would have been impossible to save my dog from being savagely ripped apart in front of my eyes by a pack of approximately 10-15 coyotes. And all this not 50 feet from my house. I dont know where you live but up here, interactions with Nature are quite common. What did save my dogs life? Not calling 911. Not standing around unable to do anything but yell real loud maybe. Not even having the 'privelege' of firing 5 maybe 10 rounds (as per mag-cap limits) into the packs general direction. Know what did? My ability to fire and empty a 32-rd .22 magazine. That ended the situation immediately. Oh yes, my dog was bleeding from the attack and required vet attention but I can assure you that a 5-10 round limit in that situation would have been completely ineffective. Does that mean that I shouldve watched that horror unfold and unable to effectively respond because of limitations? Would you suggest physically jumping into the fray? Trust me, if it hadnt stopped by the time of emptying the mag, I wouldve instinctively been right in there. Probably trying to strangle the @!$%# outta a pack of wild coyotes. Better to have been able to shoot more than 5-10 times before having to face that option. Wouldnt you agree? My point being...you cant paint everything with a broad brush, can you? Especially if motivated by idealism instead of practical, everyday experience.
Richardharrow
OOHHHHH BURRRRRNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
Reminds me of an incident I had with the Boulder CO police. I had my dogs in a crate in the back of my pickup. Someone called the cops because they thought I was being cruel to my animals. The officer showed up and took their side. Such idiocy. Crates are the way to transport dogs!! I think the people that call in these foolish "incidents" should be identified and given a ticket for wasting the time of an officer and being ignorant of the law. It is time this bull@!$%# ends. If you call in you better be ready to be held accountable for your ignorance.
LOL indeed! I've got Jeff Foxworthy rip offs taking weak shots at me XDDDDDDDD I'm sooo burned.
@AmericanDefender9 I can see how you would like a large magazine in that situation. However the debate is about just that. Weighing the pros and cons of situations and making a responsible decision with our current gun laws. I am glad that you had a large clip to defend your dog but I sure wish that Adam Lanza did not have the ability to get his hands on as much ammo as he did. I would choose one kids life over your dogs life any day and I hope you feel the same way.
Anyhow; it was nice chatting with you all. I took the week off from work to enjoy March Madness and not post here all day. LOL. Heading out the door. Have a great day and GO BLUE!!
JimSpence,
There is nothing illegal about police requesting to search without a warrant. It would have been illegal had they been denied the request but searched anyway.
I doubt that. It seems obvious that you have an agenda and have a desire for every vile event that occurs so you can find relevance in your agenda, just like most liberals. That's the most despicable thing about most of the anti-gun crowd.
You are right. The real issue is that cops expect to be let in because they feel they shouldn't need any more authority than themselves. Too many cops have a god complex, they do not believe they should ever be questioned, they seem to be just like politicians like that.
What a happy looking kid. Now why would someone call child services? Oh yeah,must of been a liberal afraid of their own shadow. This kid should teach our california senator how to hold a firearm(his dad obviously taught him well), you libs have to stop trying to FORCE your views on people,not everyone believes as you do. If you don't like guns,fine,don't tell others what they should or should not like(that's infringing on a persons RIGHTS all by itself),there is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching your child proper firearm safety,this kid will most likely grow up to be a fine man,his dad is teaching him well. You libs forget the MAIN thing about guns...ninety-nine percent of gun owners never kill anyone,get over your fear but please,don't talk to a psychiatrist about it,that will only screw you up even more then you are now.
@richardharrow,
I am glad that you had a large clip to defend your dog but I sure wish that Adam Lanza did not have the ability to get his hands on as much ammo as he did. I would choose one kids life over your dogs life any day and I hope you feel the same way.
Again...the idealism and snarkiness. I was there and able to defend my dog effectively because I had the means to. I would venture that I would have responded exactly the same way had I been in the presence of your ralling cry, Adam Lanza, on his rampage as I did in my account. Enjoy basketball but think of this lil nugget perhaps: You finally get over your post-ejaculatory glow of having nationwide mag-cap restrictions in place. Nothing over any amount of rounds that you feel comfy with...all, of course, in the name of 'protecting the children'. And there you are, perhaps experiencing a violent assault by one or multiple attackers on you or a family member, its at that exact moment that you will react instinctively...if you have any. You will fight or flight. Idealism is out the window. Your sometimes holier-than-thou attitude will serve you no purpose in that situation. Maybe you'd take solace in knowing that I'd choose the life of one child over your ability to fully protect the life of your loved one anyday. And I hope you feel the same way. Have a great day, as well.
Haven't done much "Rah Rahing" since the Clinton days, last Democratic President we had. Obama isn't even close to being a Democrat. If so, name 1 thing other than Bush tax cuts Obama got rid of that was a Bush legacy.
AmericanDefender9
Wow, your first post started out logical and practical. Then you went down the conservative rabbit hole, equating a clip limit with a story where you can not defend your family because (I assume) you have no guns.
Listen, I could care less about this clip limit debate. I don't think it will change anything. Your post about your dog was a practical explanation of why you oppose it. Great. Your next post was the type of sh** I expect from paranoid fear-mongers like Beck of Hannity.
Seriously? You need an extended clip to protect your family from a violent assault by multiple attackers? What type of piece of sh** neighborhood do you live in? Jesus f***ing christ, your family is in danger of a mob-style attack where you need an extended clip? I use a hand gun for protection, because the sheer dimensions and weight make it the preferable choice. But you need an extended clip assault rifle against roving bands of violent attackers in your town? Maybe it's time to f***ing MOVE to a slightly safer neighborhood.
See... THAT is the issue. Your dog story is a logical, practical example of why you need an extended clip. You should have left it at that. But as soon as someone gives an alternate perspective, you take the typical conservative route of imagining some Die Hard knock-off situation where you get to yell "Yippie Kay Aye, mother f***er", spray the room with bullets, and pose like an 80's action hero. How the f*** is anyone supposed to have a practical conversation with you when you take this route?
No one is banning ALL guns. It will not happen. No one is confiscating your guns. It will not happen. So knock off these bull-sh** fantasies and stick to what might ACTUALLY happen. Right now, it is a clip limit. Stick to that. Stick to your actual stories, and you might make some headway at changing someone's mind.
@mguy,
Slow down and breathe. Now, go back to anything I've posted on here today and tell me SPECIFICALLY where you gleaned that I live in an area that I fear for a 'mob-style attack', as you stated. You might have to read and re-read a few times for you will not find that statement anywhere. Or anything remotely related to it. Or anything remotely related to any hypothetical need for what you've mentioned. Dont twist my words. If you did pick up on it, I said that I live in RURAL NORTHERN MN. Aside from your own misconceptions, where are you getting the material to fuel your rant about my current living environment? And your personal assessments of me are completely off mark. You have no idea as to who or what I am. I believe that my dog is a valued member of my family as do alot of other people. To that extent, the dog is my loved one. It seems that only you inferred a human, physical assault when I mentioned to richardharrow about a loved one of his being in the same situation. Evaluate your opinions before you decide to throw your balls around.
Hi inmyday,
Your second amendment rights are already limited. You can't own a tank, or a bazooka, or a rocket launcher, and if you were to try and buy that yellow cake stuff to finish your dirty bomb, you'd get in trouble too. Further, we already had restrictions on this type of fire arm. President Bush (W) let them expire. the end of the world did not come during that time, so other than that the NRA wants to sell more guns, what is the big stink about?
Do you want/need to have these things so badly that the fact that really bad and sick people can and will also get them is less important than your need to have a bigger gun? Doesn't that say something kind of profoundly Freudian?
And though I'm really not all that in to them, I got my first gun when I was a kid too. And I do respect the second amendment, but I think we have a lot of bigger problems to deal with than your need to have a gun, and I think that compared to the rest of the developed world, our lax gun laws have given us a lot more problems than they have solved. We are starting to look more like a banana republic than say a first world nation. If you are afraid of a strong centralized government, try Sudan.
maninjapan,
I don't want a tank, etc. and I can't afford one anyway. Where did you see that?
Your point is irrelevant, if not erroneous.
My point is and and has always been to keep the guns away from people who should not have them, but you appear to think that I should not have certain guns either. That is where you are mistaken.
Most of your argument is based on your wild and incorrect assumptions about me and what I want, and is not worth more of a response than my comments I've given you, out of courtesy.
Pssst....inMYday,
Apparently the key to defusing the misguided is to use cold, hard, relentless logic devoid of emotion. As referenced by the deafening silence on the parts of those who were enjoying their momentarily fleeting chest-beating. Carry on.
Caption under the photo:
He is still 10 after having his 11th birthday? Nice reporting and editing.
Frozencarbonite -- Per the father, the son's rifle is locked in the firearm safe. The son can't get into it.
Funny around here. The anti gun folks just throw a bunch of crap around and never answer any questions about their ridiculous statements.
Oh yeah.....that father just gave a gun to an 11 year old. "Have at it kid.....just don't shoot your eye out or kill any classmates. Oh yeah, you can store that under your bed so you can have access to it whenever you want."
If that is how you think gun owning families operate then you are way out of touch and probably never were in touch :)
Somebody said " to little to late", well maybe that is what it takes. A little bit at a time until the whole country begins to think that weapons are not suppose to be for the general public. A few years gay marriage was never going to happen. Times will change if we continue to press for change.
That's generally the way things go down. I mean, think of all the freedoms we have already given up in order to protect ourselves from the terrorists. We don't need any freedoms as long as we're safe. Soon, once the government is perfected, we won't need to have freedom of speech any longer because there won't be anything valid to speak out about.
That's right!! They're NOT for the general public! But in the hands of criminals, now ya got something! It's difficult enough being a thug without having to worry about the "general public" always on about nonsense like "oh, I don't want to be robbed", "oh, I have to protect myself from a rape", and the ever popular "oh, he was trying to kill me, so I killed him instead". Pffffft! Maybe there'll be FEWER murders if thugs can operate in a "safe" environment, where nobody's trying to prevent them from earning a living! Thugs, rapists, robbers, murderers are right there with you libs!! And if they vote, they vote democrat.
This entire country was founded on the principle that weapons are for the general public. Don't hold your breath partner.
2nd Amendment:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
5th Amendment:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval
forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor
shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be
taken for public use, without just compensation.
--------------------
It's obvious from the fifth amendment that the writers of the Constitution defined a Militia as more than a single individual.
@ExYahooUser, but that is not how the Supreme Court ruled is just 2008 (District of Columbia v. Heller). They did not take that sentence as a whole, but rather broke it into two parts, ruling that "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, was independent, and legal." Despite owning guns myself, I read it like you do, but until they overturn that, we can read it anyway we want, it does not matter. It is legal to own guns per the current interpretation of the Constitution.
On another note, "Kristine Brown said that when it receives a report of suspected abuse or neglect, it assigns a caseworker to follow up." This is a load of BS. They are indeed there to investigate abuse or neglect, but how does that picture support anything but a kid, who got the most awesome present this side of a mini-bike? I would like to know their basis to investigate anything since they clearly had no basis, other than an anti-gun agenda.
Kevin - and the SC works for the scary gubimint that conservatives claim the evil liberals are going to force them to take their guns away.
at the end of the day, it's clear we cant fix stupid.
as for someone calling social services about the boy with a gun.
you dont think for a nano-second that if that kid was muslim looking, all sorts of white rednecks wouldnt be screaming "they're making him into a terrorist!!!"?
you're damn right they would be...and all I see in that picture is a mini-red neck future doomsday prepper convinced the evil liberals need to be wiped out, because his dad listens to too much rush limbaugh and glenn beck.
but hey, that's how perspective works, isnt it? It doesnt have to be accurate for people to spew it.
The father could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he was smart enough NOT to post that pic on FB. With all of the gun frenzy going on in the country since Newtown and the like why would you expose yourself like that and not expect controversy? Especially a kid in camo holding an assault "looking" rifle.
Rights or no rights or right or wrong if you put it out on the internet you will get noticed quickly and have to deal with the consequences or scrutiny and/or both for those actions.
That scumbag 18 year old that just got life without parole killed his victims with a .22
Ex Yahoo User.... read DC vs. Heller. Apparently the Supreme Court of the United States COMPLETELY disagrees with you in EVERY WAY.
A militia IS an individual since that is what makes up a militia. READ the ruling and get a clue.
So Bob is anti gun AND gay? Wow - what a combination...
HonestDebate:
You're not right. You're not even wrong.
Jessica,
Clearly you know nothing about the gun owning community. We are proud when any child is taught safe gun handling.
We can have driver's ed and sex ed in schools, but I am sure you would freak out if a school system did the right thing and added basic gun safety lessons. For starters, young children should be taught that if they see a gun they should immediately leave and tell an adult. That is the type of education that has helped reduce gun accidents among children down to a couple of hundred per year. More young children perish at the hands of their parents, doctors, and drug companies who push legalized meth through the anti-depressant, and ADHD meds.
@BobDay; your right the country will turn to S#IT but not on our watch, not everything at once, and the future will see a change in policy the left has gone as far as it can go the pendulum will swing back to the right as soon as people see what damage is being done not every American is willing to give in to the leftist nightmare. its that or the end is upon us.
the deadliest thing we face other then the Automobile is the leftist liberal, the promoters of Tyranny, the supporter of the nanny state that pumps our children full of Ritalin and rat poison, without a parents consent the leftist liberals are the biggest danger our society faces because they are among us and freely do the most damage, socially and mentally destructive elements to the free thinking individual, loyal to the collective and ready to assimilate the minds of the youths for their own twisted concept of right. they feel you don't need freedom you need to be controlled, you need to be told everything, what to eat what to drink how much of each, what to see, what not to see, just stay in your cubicle, we will select entertainment for you, don't worry about a thing we will do that for you. need health care they will provide it time to die they will help you through the process, Logan's run is around the corner. its called practical and progressive management of society you done being productive at 50 your excused, hope you enjoyed your stay, don't give those bastards one inch. they will model the world after a bee hive 2 classes the 1% with the money and the 99% poor worker class, privatize profits and socialized poor. that's the plan, the socialist plan not the Republicans plan. but the plan for everyone in the new world order. leftist liberals are a tool of the system that intends to rule you.
I find it a bit telling and Freudian in a way that you compare sex ed to safe gun handling. Coming from a psychological point of view one might even argue better sex ed in school may reduce the number of young men interested in guns merely to compensate for their personal shortcomings. : )
Frozencarbonite,
Freudian science is pseudo-science. Sigmund Fraud meshes well with libtard philosophies. Both make overreaching assumptions based on nothing more than personal opinion and ideologies. Also, both are not overly concerned with facts to support their opinions.
Now you understand why it's so difficult to give in at all on gun restrictions. We KNOW it's never going to be enough for far too many of you. Better not to give an inch at all then to end up giving up a mile.
Ron; Sigmund Fraud was a schizophrenic hardly someone you would want to base mental health and development on unless you are a liberal suffering from the same form of schizophrenia. just something to think about.
@Gneisenau very well said, the monster already has its head in the door don't let the rest follow.
All I know is I've been increasingly horrified that the pure meaning of democracy:government of the people; especially by the majority, has been bastardized to become: if the minority disagrees and is loud enough with that (subject/law) it should be changed and become a law.
We've become to passive about to many things and have given up to many freedoms already.
Good for Shawn and Josh. The LE & DYFS who set up that raid oughta be fired for stupidity.
Shawn is an NRA certified instructor who obviously spends a lot of time with his son. Josh appears to be a great kid; gee, he's articulate, respectful, and no doubt in my mind understands firearms. Both appear to be responsible to me, which is a heck of a lot more than I can say for at least 50% of the rest of our population. Good thing Shawn knows the drill to call the attorney and not let warrentless nitwits ransack the place.
Gun control advocates -- Guess what, many children are fantastic on the range and in hunting. They go thru a lot of excellent supervised training. What? Didn't know about range masters either? A mere boy can bring home dinner? Oh my, left-wing anti-gun people, what do you do all day and on weekends? There really is a life out there other than what you see on sit-coms or play on your video games. Some people have a really good time on the range, in the field, at a match, hiking (of course in some areas, one needs protection from rattlesnakes, copperheads, grizzly bears). It's outside your comfort zone, so move along and mind your own business.
Josh -- Cool .22; no wonder you were smiling. Congrats on the hunting trip. Never mind the busybody "grown-ups", we're not all like that.
Just for the record, being pro-gun control doesn't mean you support this particular action by the police and child welfare. Their "reports of abuse" should be more specific and they should be required to consider the nature of the report. If it's "I saw a picture of a kid holding a gun..." they should ask to see the pic before heading out! Also, while I'm pro-gun control, I'm not in favor of what happened here. These people never should have been let into the home unless they had a warrant! AND good for the father who knows his rights. Frankly, if you're going to own a gun, you SHOULD know your rights.
Being in favor of gun CONTROL - like high capacity clip bans, etc., does not mean I want to take away everyone's guns - not by a long shot. but nice job trying to polarize this issue and become just part of the problem, rather than engaging in reasoned discourse on the issue.
I believe what happened to Shawn and Josh was completely wrong.
Maris you are a creepy one, seriously did you read what you wrote? It is just strange. Just because someone isn't in to guns doesn't mean that they only watch TV, play video games, and are afraid to go outside. If you think a gun is going to keep you safe from rattlesnakes and copperheads you have a lot of learning to do. You either see the snake before you are in danger and walk away from it or you don't and you get bit. there is no shooting a snake mid-strike.
I have hiked and camped all over north america with grizzly bears feasting on salmon less than 100 feet from my tent and never came into a situation where a gun would have helped me, you just have to be smart.
I like how you asked "liberals" a lot of questions and then answered the questions for them since you know they must not know the answer. You should see a doctor about the voices in your head that you are obviously compelled to answer out loud.
What this article shows is my pet peeve with child services. Anyone can make a claim against you and you are guilty until proven innocent, and then you are still guilty. I support trying to defend children that are abused, but too many times I have seen a child accident cause more problems for a family because some over zealous person called child services. I have also seen the cases of abused children returned to the parents the later be found dead because the law says the parents are the lawful care givers. Child services has it so backwards that they are allowing more harm to come to children than they are preventing.
My 11yr old daughter and my 15 yr old son have guns.Both have completed hunters safety courses and know the proper way to handle a weapon. This is something THEY wanted to do, not something that was pushed on them. If the kid wants to do this, its not bad thing much worst thing he could be doing.
Pirate Gonzo and thc1138 -- No, I'm not creepy. I'm an honest little ole lady who DOESN'T hear voices or tell others what (legally) they can or can't do just because it's not something that I like to do. My comments were re the vast majority of anti-gun people I've met over the years who don't anything about firearms except what they see in crime movies and what the media tells them. With most of them, the only gun they've ever seen is hidden in a LEO's holster. To them, all firearms are fully automatic machine pistols or .50 WWII machine guns. No, I'm not kidding. What's worse, is most don't want to know anything about something they know nothing about. I've only encountered a few who asked because they didn't know and were curious.
And studies (yes, even by the gov't) show that many people go to work, come home, watch TV or play video games, (or sit at the bar most nights), and never never never ever go anywhere where there isn't a sidewalk. (That inflames the gym workout & health crowd who complain that not everyone else is a workout-aholic .) I've watched plenty of them and their progeny (especially their progeny) sit on the floor right up to the TV, glassy-eyed, and with a little stream of spittle running out one side of their mouth. That's not real life. Virtual maybe. Anyway, they don't read or think, wouldn't dream of asking questions. In this strange world, hey it's their's so they can do what they want, they just can't imagine that there are things such as sports, swimming, camping, fishing, hiking, hunting, etc. Because it's alien to them and they don't know anything about it, then no one should be doing it.
What used to be a normal human reaction to anything unknown, was to find out about it in order to make a personal decision of some sort. Instead, the new normal often seems to be that someone else uninformed will tell them what to think. Now THAT's creepy & scary. I actually had a university-educated person proclaim to me that she wished the government would tell her what to think. That was about 6 years ago. I think she got her wish.
Oh, and some friends of mine recently lost their beloved Palomino due to a copperhead strike. Seems their local gov't imported some out-of-state dirt (snakes included). In the West, most ranchers pack a scattergun for when they find rattlesnakes too close to their stock. At least all the cowboys I ever met did, for those and other possible varmints. Pirate, nice to hear the griz didn't whack you.
Whatever. I think Josh is a cool kid with a father who spends quality time with him. To me, that's great. I know a few people who take a child along to a range. Years ago I was one of them. The kids are taught by NRA certified instructors, practice with their parent or another instructor, and learn safety safety safety. To hear many of the anti-gun folks spew some of their vile, ridiculous, uninformed nonsense is repulsive. An honest opinion is one thing, often in the form of "I'm not a gun fan so I don't have one." What is really galling is the spewing of the venom toward the wrong problem, meaning do something to get the mentally ill some help (little will happen) or stopping the drug cartel violence (gov't still can't and it's getting worse) or breaking up the gangs (cops alone can't and it's getting worse).
thc1138 -- Most super-duper gun haters won't answer questions because they don't already know the answer or the answer is uncomfortable to them because it's not what they thought was true. There's a huge difference between reasonable people who listen to both sides of an issue and those who scream nonsense simply because their favorite media person or politician says so.
Pirate, I'm glad that you enjoy the outdoors. I too have had close encounters with bears, Black not Grizzlys. I hope that you never need a firearm when camping near Grizzlys feeding on Salmon, because if you do,and you are unarmed, you won't be posting on this sight anymore! I prefer to be able to a least give myself a chance at survival.
Just look at the picture and you can tell its a .22 caliber semi auto made over to look like a military weapon. just look at the ejection chamber to small for a large caliber round, someone with a ounce of knowledge would have seen that apparently miss no name had no knowledge or even enough common sense to identify the weapon first, that is why I am against liberals telling us what is what and who can and who cant and screw them, idiots attempting a take over by shear volume. that's why we have a constitution and that is why we need to protect our rights.if someone attacks the constitution then they are a criminal. even if they are a politician or a media figure, especially if they are a celebrity, had to run bunches of them off in the 50's, might need to do so again. they are thick as S#IT and smell worse! on top of that they dress funny.
Enma3 so true. Bookmarked just for the entertaining reading.
Yeah, it can be entertaining. But, horrifically sad the number of totally ignorant comments that will come forth from those who barely know their arse from a hole in the ground. Scary that so many are so gullible.
He must be hunting out of state because you are not allowed to hunt with any rifles in New Jersey.
You're kidding, right? Don't leave the house much? I don't see any restriction on firearms on the NJ gov site:
Or are you simply trying to spread misinformation for some reason?
You can own them and shoot them at the range, you just can't hunt with them. Shotguns and bows are OK to hunt with. Jeez, buddy, I was just sayin'...............
Well he is flaming and he is a liberal so he is all kinds of confused!!!
FL, don't try to teach a gun nut about laws, they ignore them anyway.
I should know better, the facts just get in the way.
Mongo, did you read the actual existing NJ firearm regulations? Fastest way to find it (or for any state) is to Google it. NJ legislators apparently didn't read it before they recently spouted off their obvious lack of knowledge and then blindly started writing bills.
By the way, if it's my comment about "getting out much" that you mentioned, it refers to the many many many people who rarely ever do anything remotely active but demand that activities by others should immediately cease. Wow, when I think back over the last 60+ years, I have been truly lucky to have experienced so many things. Knowledge can be painful, ignorance must indeed be blissful (no nothing personal in your direction.)
Mongo: In NJ, rifles may only be used to dispatch trapped muskrats. No other hunting use is permitted. But, you can go down to the Wildlife Management Areas that have a range, and target practice with a .22 as long as you have a hunting license or are with someone who does.
Correct, no rifle hunting in NJ. Shotguns limited to 3 shells for hunting. So the hunters go to PA, or to northern or western states. What's ridiculous is areas where hunting is "frowned upon in this establishment" and the deer multiplied into such a huge number and they wander the residential streets and the car drivers swerve all over to miss them and then hit trees and other cars and sometimes even the deer get hit and suffer before they die which beats starving, but that's another story.
Anyway, I think Josh is a cool kid (okay, polite and respectful young man). Nice to see children who still know how to do stuff.
@Maris you are right about activities being suspended in both Idaho and Montana everything is being closed off for everyone except the hiker, cant drive a vehicle, a ATV a dirt bike or any motorized vehicle as of this year, roads are being gated(more then before) it seams we hired a gardener to watch our garden and for some reason he decided we can no longer go into our garden. he is reserving it for his rich friends. so much for the forest service, and then their is their cousin the fish and game they plan on killing off the fish, the Wallie in the Knoxon reservoir, and already helped decimate the Elk and moose in a 6 or 7 state area and we pay these people they need to start answering to us. makes a person wonder did they spend hundreds of millions to bring the predators back because they plan on locking us out, and the lack of hunting would have been a problem for the deer and elk or just what was the reason. what ever things sure have changed in this area in the past 6 years. game is getting so scarce even the predators are moving on. heading south to California I would imagine, wolves, grizzlies, mountain lions, they are heading to San Francisco, well good luck to them and happy hunting when they get there my dogs are happy that they are lesser on the menu.
D Buck -- Wow, sure am sorry to hear things that bad in ID & MT. I was considering moving to ID, and I've met a few folks from MT over the years. Too many so-called "environmentalists" are so full of it. Their supposed good intentions have lots of unintended consequences. And then there's the ones who are elitists in disguise. Now everything's out of whack. Glad I had so much fun & experience in my younger years.
well said maris well said
The liberal NAZIS and their PC Police are at it again. This is how pathetic this nation is becoming. Of course no one sought to arrest Weiner for show his weiner to underage girls.
Because it didn't happen! Duh!
it wasn't underage girls...reading and comprehension is very important
Sorry.. I thought women under age 18 were considered minors. However if it is a Demwit like Weiner, Gore or Clinton there is no foul right.
every kid that ever grew up in northern michigan had a22 cal never hear any one getting shot here and every house has guns here kinda makes you think
Yeah. People today panic and the sight of a rifle. I used to carry a .22 from my house to the foot hills about a mile from my house. No one thought twice about it. Now you would arrested and charged as a terrorist. (OK not quite, but you would probably be arrested.) No one ever shot anyone where I grew up. Gun crimes were pretty much unheard of (Hell any crime of any kind was unheard of.) and suicides were so rare the whole city would mourn over one. Crap if we walloped a bully in school, we weren't the ones that got in trouble. We didn't get expelled for bringing a pocket knife to school, not to mention a plastic one in our lunch box. We had shooting teams in high school. We had bow teams in high school. Bow shooting was taught by the city parks during summer vacation. I took it when I was 12 years old.
So, why are we so different today? It's not just because of the increase in population.
I grew up in the inner city. I was 12 when I fired the M-16 for the first time during a Civil Air Patrol outing.
I also consider myself liberal if there is such a thing. CPS crossed the line in this case.
Stood up for his rights? There may be a drone in his near future.
Is it only in NJ that you don't need to identify yourself when you want to invade someone's home for an unauthorized search?
We need more patriots in our nation like this!!
yeah...now go pic up them hogs, and brush that tooth
richg8----You have to be a redneck in order to be a patriot?
common sense..prevails..
@richg8,
Explain common sense.
common sense doesn't need explaining.
Keep your finger straight and off the trigger, until you are ready to fire. :-)
In other news....The NRA is suing the police department for giving a @!$%#. Said LaPierre "Those fat asses should stay in the doughnut shop until some pussy libtard calls them for help"
Good for the NRA.....and phuck WisconsinDad....a true doughnut eating pussy libtard.
If Feinstein and her allies have their way, soon the authorities will have the power to seize the weapons, imprison the parents, and give the child a proper up-bringing.
I'd have far more sympathy for gun owners if they weren't hypocrites who have sat back for decades and said nothing or even took an active role in abusing the rights of others. It's kind of funny listening to them whine now really. The funny thing is, the only gun owners I know personally are republican farmers who have bever served in the military and who have stolen about $20 billion in welfare from the tax payers.
See you blew it in your first sentence. You want me to diminish my rights because you think it might infringe with yours. It doesn't work that way. You rights are not more important than mine. No gun rights advocate has abused your rights. Ever.
You can't even be honest in the debate. It's worthless to negotiate with the anti-gun people because of people like you.
Cops should have stormed the house and given his brat to children services. If the dad protested they should have shot him in the head. After all the father was armed...
So much for having rights huh, people like you need to be put down along with all the other people that think rights should be taken away.
imagineonce----I think you should be thrown in jail and gang raped you irrogant piece of $h8t.
evidently you must know first hand what goes on in prison..
And you idiots don't know sarcasm when you read it.
There was a time when kids shot BB guns in public school. Over time, the p u s s y patrol took over and we are now supposed to be afraid of our own shadow.
No more big government intrusion. Enough.
Shotting a BB gun in school is safe? so your saying you want everyone to not be a p u s s y and let kids shoot bb guns in school? And you wonder why people want gun control?
Can anyone explain to me how this guys rights were violated? They didn't seize the guns, they didn't search the house. I'd say his rights were completely upheld.
So you need to register your car, but not your guns in NJ? Can anyone explain to me how registering a gun is a violation of the second amendment. The part I see in there that republicans don't is the well regulated part. How convenient. Yet these same constitution lovers are also the ones that don't like the part about the post office, so they just ignore that one and any other one they don't like.
So it doesn't matter what it says, republicans don't care, they just make it all up as they go along. and then scream liberal this and progressive that...Famous for accusing others that of which they are guilty of themselves.
That's right, I was the 5th grade champion. We did it after school. First school sport I competed in. I swear I have never shot anyone.
It's idiots like Funny who live in abject fear of firearms due solely to ignorance. They expect big brother to protect them from cradle to grave and resent anybody who takes their 2nd amendment rights seriously.
Pathetic
What other right do you have to register? 1st? 4th? 6th? & for what purpose? So big brother knows who has guns?
Re: weapons in school
I took archery in High School and fencing was also offered; I graduated in 1978. I bet there isn't archery offered in my old HS any longer!
Hey Funny, The GOP have the well regulated part down correctly. It's you who are at a loss. It means well trained, which is obviously what the kid was being. Trained.
Funny how the liberals are the ones screaming half truths and inaccuracies while claiming the GOP blames them for their failures. Don't think so bub, and I'm not even a repugnican. I just ain't a lyin lib like you.
And yet Republicans want the government to go tell women and gay people what they can and cannot do, install prayers in schools and turn America into a Republican's utopia.*
*minorities not need apply
It never fails to amaze me how clueless people can be about a subject, yet spout off like they are superior. It isn't an assault weapon for you liberal loons. Its a rodent gun. It's made for shooting at targets and hunting tiny animals like squirrels. It's not even recommended for self defense because the average person could make it through a barrage of bullets from it. My favorite part is the people on here that are calling the dad and everyone else crazy are just regurgitating left wing media hype and apparently don't know it.
@Obama Lies,
I really think you're the pathetic one every time you post. I know very few people who expect the Government to take care of them cradle to grave.
OMG, kids started shooting each other, that's what took over. Or have you not been paying attention.
Lee, OMG, you should visit an entitlement neighborhood. You'll get the shock of your life if you don't think that mentality exists. About a third of my county is like that. Be sure to leave before sunset though 'cause the drive-bys ramp up.
Is there not any age restriction for gun use? In the article, the father says that the gun is a ".22 caliber copy". But, that's a functioning gun, right? So, a 10 year old can own and fire a rifle? How about a 5 year old..........? If so, I find this astounding. Anyone know the law?
My five year old will know how to handle a gun safely, just like he will know how to handle a knife safely. And yes in alot of states a 10 yr old can take a hunters safety course and fire a gun under the supervison of an adult. If you dont like it dont allow your kids to,
Thats freakin crazy. No 10 year old, or 5 year old for that matter, should be firing a gun. Of course.
Mark, do you or have you had a 10 year old? They can shoot and are good at it. My 10 year old granddaughter learned to shoot a 22 last summer.
Mark have you ever fired a gun?
I've been shooting since I was 5 years old Mark... my father taught us how and took us to the turkey shoot every year. My uncle taught us how to handle and shoot pistols also and took us to the range with him all the time. And somehow we ( my brother & sister & I) grew up to become responsible adults who wouldn't be capable of harming another human being unless we were forced to. Go figure!
I had a single shot .22 when I was 5 years old. My parents and grandparents took my sisters and I shooting and I learned gun safety first and then how to shoot. Guess what, nobody got shot, I didn't go on a shooting spree. Much better than playing video games and pretend killing people or watching tv all day. I also don't even own an "assault rifle" but I support people who want to own military style weapons. I served in the army and always qualified as expert. Those "country" boys or "rednecks" I trust a whole lot more in training to handle themselves and their weapon. Some random idiot 20 year old from the city who had only played video games almost shot all of us accidently. Had to tackle him to ground because he had no idea what he was doing and wasn't raised properly how to handle or respect firearms.
Mark...what would your appropriate age for firing a gun be? Hawaii has some restrictive gun laws, but to take a hunter's ed. course here you need to be at least 10 years old on the day the class starts. My kids have been shooting a bb gun and paintball guns under my supervision since they were 4. Why in the great parenting manual should they not be able to? It is a skill like any other. My weapons are all locked in a safe, but other places that my children go to may no be so secure. Should they not know and understand what these things are? Should they pick them up and play with them and bring them to school to show off and maybe accidentally shoot someone/something because they don't know any better? My point is, what is an acceptable age to learn safety in any shape or form? My kids also know how to use the fire extinguisher at home. Are they to young in your opinion to use that? So at 10 no one should be shooting, but at 18 they can go to war?
Why not? Plenty of us have hunted since an early age and never had a problem. It's in a supervised setting when the possibility to get hurt is minimal. It's not like they are walking the streets with these.
You're at more risk taking the highway at 65 MPH, tell me why we should allow you to drive a car at that speed with a child in the car? There is really no need for you to drive that fast.
Is everyone so concerned about the death of people or just the death by a rifle?
How are you comparing a BB gun and a paint ball gun to a real weapon...are you really that ignorant. You DON'T need a gun in the house to teach your children about them, just put on the news.
Mark, A rifle, or pistol for that matter, is not a dangerous item until someone does something stupid with it. The younger the person, the more supervision they need, but it is not "freakin crazy" if you know what you are doing. Obviously, YOU do not, and should therefore stay out of the discussion or educate your self before jumping in.
At our Gun & Pistol Club (here in NJ) our son began at age 11 to shoot .22 rifle at the range. When a child first attends class, he receives instruction in how to handle a firearm safely. This is a NRA course. The classroom portion lasts a few weeks, and there is a test. The kids learn how to handle .22 rifles and are supervised by Club staff, wear hearing and eye protection.
I believe he is up to sharpshooter, third class now.
Just because a child is "given" a firearm as a gift, does not mean that he actually "owns" it. Everyone I know, including my father, that has ever given a child a firearm as a gift, has
1. Taught that child proper use of a firearm.
2. Set rules that the firearm was not to be touched without parental supervision.
3. Was locked away, seperate from the ammunition.
4. Was generally supervised when the firearm was out.
I recieved my first "gift" of a firearm at the age of 12, however until the age of 18, that firearm was not mine. I started shooting at 5 and first went hunting at 8.
The "kids" you hear about accidently shooting their friend or family member is usually that same kid that was never taught proper gun safety and proper handling. I say good for this dad for not only excercising his right to purchase this firearm as a "gift" for his son, but also for taking the time out to teach his son how to handle one and spending the quality time with his son. So many people think the video game and the tv are the best babysitters in the world and then wonder what happened.
Ignorant rich, seriously, you're calling me ignorant? Just what is a "real" weapon to you? You one of those that think any rifle with a pistol grip, collapsible stock, bayonet lug, qualifies it as an "assault" rifle? And that's okay too as my boss is a liberal Dem and she has no clue that normal civilians cannot own an assault rifle (ie. one that shoots fully automatic). But she's on the bandwagon to ban "assault" weapons based on cosmetic appearances. I bet a "high cap" mag to you is anything above 10 rounds? Based on some politicians definition. Not that those 30 rounders would be "normal cap" mags, seeing as how that's what the rifles were designed to take.
Again, seriously...ignorant? Yikes...guess we can watch something like Greys Anatomy and learn how to be a Dr. and do surgery too? Or we can just tell them about the dangers of guns and they'll be safe. Worked great for drugs so far, alcohol too.
I like them...you don't...great...but to call me ignorant...wow!
I'm sure it was "his" in the sense that it was a gun got as a gift.... much like my car when I was 16 was "mine" in the sense that it was the one I used, but my dad owned it, and when the time came it became mine in the legal sense.
richg8
That comment says a whole lot about you. Do really think that plopping a child in front of the news is going to teach them proper firearm safety. Is that how you would or do teach your children? Just drop em in front of the boob tube, let the schools teach them the difference between right and wrong, good and evil. I guess when its your kid that does something stupid like "accidently" shoot someone, or go on a rampage you'll be able to blame those damned old toohless, hog farming, republicans. But it won't be your fault will it.
As I have posted so many times before. Typical ignorance trying to preach from a high horse about something you clearly know absolutely nothing about. Good job Mark. Oh, and how many guns have you shot?
No one is addressing Mark's question, on whether there is an age restriction. I wondered that myself. I took my boy to fire weapons a couple of times, but to be honest I wasn't sure how legal it was. I had heard there was age an restriction.
Mark, I looked it up. In NJ, the minimum age for a youth hunting license is 10.
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/hntlicfe.htm
Got to shoot my dad's 12 gauge when I was like 6-7. Didn't even think of touching his guns again after that. See, experience can be a teacher.
Hi all, I'm the OP of this thread. I will say that there are a lot of thoughtful comments here. But look... I'll bet anything that little kids shoot their brothers and sisters and themselves by accident a hell of a lot more than they shoot "bad guys" in self defense. You know its true, too, if you're honest. Kids have gun accidents all the time. It's a fact, a provable fact. It happens over 3000 times a year.
http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm
You can find the same stat in many places, its not a "liberal media" lie, OK? And it's a lot of people, of course. Oh my God.
So yeah, teach gun safety, so kids know what to do if they see one or if some stupid other kid brings one to school. But do I think a 10 year old or a 5 year old should have access to a gun, should shoot a gun as a hobby? No way. To me the fact that theres virtually no age restriction on a handgun shows the power of the NRA and not much else.
And by the way, to answer a question posed by many people in this thread, yeah I have fired a gun. I went to a range with friends on one or two occasions. I wasn't bad at it either. But you know, I was like 30 years old.....
@jr boy.. Yeah your ignorant..
@cary-1787726 What are you another brain surgeon..everyday on the NEWS , people..innocent people are being shot. Either by accident or purposely . My kids are older than 21 and raised safely.. If the shoe fits WEAR IT...
And Child Protective Services in most states say they are overflowing with cases and don't have the people to check up on kids who have junkie parents who leave their kids all alone for hours on end to fend for themselves; nor to check up on or provide assistance to families who have to live in their cars cause the parents have lost their jobs; but in New Jersey they have enough manpower and money to follow up after one call from someone who saw a picture of a kid holding what someone thought to be a real rifle. Where was the suspected "abuse"? I just don't get it.
Moore said he called his lawyer Evan Nappen, who specializes in Second Amendment cases, and had him on speakerphone as he arrived at his house.
WOW! he has a lawyer on retainer for personal calls? How convenient.
I assume most of you have forgotten the Social Workers that were killed in an explosion, when they went to do a mental health check on a father and his kid's. Or the crazy who shot the paramedics and firefighters when he set fire? They were doing their jobs. Crazies have just as much access to the 2nd Amendment as normal people, Police officers and public workers should not have to put their life on the line to determine, if they will be killed for doing their job. These are the people giving bad names to gun owners and making others suspicious.
As for personal identity, I wouldn't give my name for a gun nut to have. I would have given him an employee id number.
If this kid turns into another Adam Lanza, guess it will be the parent's fault?
Guns dont turn kids into Adam Lanza, and owning a gun does not make people a "gun nut' just as your outspoken attitued and name calling doesnt make you a Free speech nut. Educate yourself before you speak .
Soooooo you advocate for the illegal search and seizure of a law abiding citizen and his personal property, but HE is the nut because he asked for the name of the person requesting the intrusion on his rights. Are you people for real? Let me ask you this, when all the guns are gone and there are no gun owners left to disenfranchise, what will you do when they come after the 1st amendment because they don't like what you said or wrote? How dare you call him a "nut"? Because his beliefs differ from yours? Arrogant ass.
When are they taking it away? The gun nuts have been saying it for decades so when will it happen? Let me ask you this. Where is your proof that anyone is trying to take away any of your rights? Oh and its good to know you are all for gay marriage, wouldn't want to take rights away from anyone now would we. Lets not forget abortion, pro-choice it is for you because we cannot let stand when a womans right to privacy is infringed? Or is it only the ones you like that you are willing to defend with your gun and your life. Your a fraud, plain and simple. Just like the rest of the pro-gun, anti-choice, anti-gaymarriage nuts. Until you start sticking up for every american's rights, not just yours, sit the eff down and shut the eff up.
And where is the illegal search and seizure. They did not do any of that, they simply asked, and when they were told no they left. How is that advocating for illegal search and seizure? Yet there it is in your comment. that asking to see your guns, is illegal search and seizure. Fox news has taught you well. Fling as much crap at the wall and see what sticks.
Obuma already made it illegal to protest within a certain radius of his glorious self. So the 1st amendment already means nothing either. Libs are not going to be happy until everyone is poking one another in the rear ends and sitting around the camp fire singing Kumbaya. Oh actually I forgot that has the word Lord in it so that won't work either. Well maybe we can just all sit around having abortion parties...weeee
Just wondering...which ammendment in the constitution protects gay marriage? Abortion? I'm not educated enough to know, but I do know the one that protects my right to own guns.
What is your point on having an attorney on retainer? I have an attorney on retainer just in case I ever need one. I have never called him but if I need to I will. Kind of like insurance, and my firearms for that matter, i hope I never have to use it but I still have it in case I need it.
You miss the point. In this case the social worker should never have been there in the place. A photograph of a youngster holding a rifle is not abuse.
Additionally, All you @!$%#s who seem to think it's liberalism v.s. conservatism or visa versa are contributing in a huge way to this mess. Our problems are our problems not theirs, not mine, not yours, but ours. If you don't get that then we truly are doomed.
funnystuff -- I think you missed the part about the numerous times the father told the LEOs no for a warrentless search. They knew they couldn't conduct the search but kept trying, probably because of the DYFS worker whom the probably wanted to please just to shut her up. And, by law, the DYFS worker had to give her name and produce ID, both of which she refused to do.
The dude knew his rights...I wonder why this guy conveniently had a lawyer who happens to sepcialize in 2nd amendment issues at his fingertips...sounds like this could have been an NRA scam to create a sideshow to comment on...just sayin'
If I was a gun owner and lived in New Jersey, I would want to know a 2nd amendment-friendly lawyer too! <g> Seriously, though. A lot of gun owners network in social media and it is not that hard to learn of fellow gun owners that are also lawyers.
It is all too common for a gun owner to get arrested, guns confiscated "out of an abundance of caution" and the charges get dropped, yet they won't release your firearms back to you, until you sue them. And then it also includes compensation for damages because of the abuse the weapons get from rough handling or poor storage, or outright theft.
So it never crossed your mind that when his wife called him and said that the police were there to inspect his guns and question him about his son. That he looked up a lawyer that sepcialize in the 2nd amendment...just sayin'
any examples or links of any of this being true or are you trying out for fox news too? Since its all too common, there must be thousands of examples you can provide.
You said it Jim. Took me 15 months to get my guns, that were confiscated illegally, back. No arrest and no charges filed and still 15 months.
Quick google search and had 10 different stories of legal carrying gun owners getting harassed but can't seem to post a link on this site...now why don't you go kill some more babies!!!
funnystuff888
Plenty of examples of police taking guns and never filing charges-those who had guns taken during Katrina still don't all have their guns back-ONE example is more than enough-no law enforcement agency has the authority to confiscate your guns-under any circumstance-with possible exception of martial Law.
I read in another article that Dad was a firearms instructor. That might explain having a lawyer that knows gun laws and 2nd Amendment rights. Many people have attorneys on hand that are relevant to their business.
Tinfoil hat on too tight Rick? Just sayin'...
2ND Amendment Rights also supports being part of the militia. Makes me wonder how many folks will support if the Commander In Chief "ahem: Obama" calls up twelve year old boys and girls to go fight bad guys in Iran. Of course: Their argument has been the 2ND Amendment is meant to protect the individual from the State-n-Crooks, but not for the protection of the State; unless it is a republican/right-wing leader making that call.
This is kind of a non story...ok, someone randomly left a tip to an abuse hotline, they investigated, as they need to do, and left. It's not like they took the kid or guns away.
Only the attempted illegal search, but outside of that 4th amendment violation, yeah, there really wasn't much of a story. But we won't let this out of control parent interfere with the progress of the fatherland, comrade.
You won't find the full story on NBC. The father states that the social worker did threaten to take his son if he did not comply with the illegal search the police were trying to conduct. The fact that the SW would not even provide her name tells me all I need to know about her motives. All of you gun haters should get past the whole gun thing and be concerned with the 4th ammendment implications here. I mean, God forbid, what if the kid were holding a Big Gulp instead of a .22 rifle?
Not all liberals are for gun control. I'm liberal, live in California & believe NO ONE has the right disallow gun ownership; and I'm not allowing ANYONE to take the firearm(s) that I (proudly) own.
In addition, I think that the kid's father did the absolute right thing & believe it's incredible BS that he & his family had to go through that experience; at all ! The raid was completely unjustified. To think that I could not give a gun as a gift to my own step son is ludicrous .
don't waste your breath, if your a liberal your anti-gun, thats it.. doesn't matter that most of us are not and are just looking to keep guns out of the hands of lunatics. Doesn't matter that we support the right to bear arms and never have them confiscated unless a legal reason to do so. None of that matters cause this is all about one thing, hating Obama.
And I agree completely unjustified and a horrible thing to have to go through, but I think the system worked exactly as designed. They asked he said no, no signs of abuse, they left.
How do we know the person that called wasn't a neighbor that saw the kid putting the gun in his mouth? We don't. Everyone assumes that the facebook picture is what initiated the call, but what if it wasn't.
And what if they didn't check it out and the kid was being abused, they would be calling for their heads as well...
The issue here is that someone reported a kid potentially in danger and CPS was required to respond. They took the proper precautions to protect their safety and left when asked - exactly right. Obviously, what they observed indicated that the child was not in danger, otherwise they would have returned with a warrant - not for the guns, but to get the child, which was the point in the first place.
Patrick, you seem to be more of a Classical Liberal than a modern "progressive", which means they want government to get "progressively" larger and more intrusive. I commend you for not swallowing the entire progressive platform hook, line and sinker. BTW, what do you call a liberal who is for marriage equality and federal non-interference on that issue, pro-choice, anti-government intrusion, and pro-gun rights? A Libertarian. I'm one of those people forced to vote for religious zealots, warmongers and crony capitalists because the opposing side believes that one tenth of the Bill of Rights doesn't exist, and argued that position before the Supreme Court. Sad state of affairs.
Whoever called the state should be in trouble and pay for the expense of the raid. I cannot believe how many people are drinking the kool aid. WE DO NOT NEED A NANNY STATE!
"You're not even safe in your own house. If they can just show up at any time and make you open safes and go through your house, that's not freedom; it's like tyranny."
F'ing idiot. For the record: nobody made him open his safe - he clearly stated that already when he refused and the po-po left, didn't search the house and never came back.
He's an idiot AND a liar.
Patriott-
F'ing idiot. For the record: nobody made him open his safe - he clearly stated that already when he refused and the po-po left, didn't search the house and never came back.
He's an idiot AND a liar.
They told him they needed to open his safe and inventory his weapons. That's not like tyranny. It's tyranny. They also said it was suspicious that he didn't want to open his safe for them. Get a clue.Your a loser and an idiot funny you call yourself a patriot ass wipe
All we really know here is that someone called CPS and reported what they thought was an endangered child. When the police and CPS showed up and asked to see the homeowner's guns they were not infringing on his right to bear arms. Police can ask you to do things and if you agree to them then YOU are giving up your right; they're not taking that right away from you. Luckily the homeowner recognized this and that was the end of the police involvement. I personally hope that if I ever have to call CPS and report what I believe to be a child in danger that they take it 100% seriously and follow up.
What about the foto that a father posted on facebook himself made anyone except an utter imbecile believe this child was in any danger?
Keepitleftyoumean......"Someone" called CPS and they show up at the childs' home unannounced, with no Warrant, and insist on the father opening his Gun Safe, and you don't see a problem??? Tell me...just what was in the fathers' GUN SAFE that had anything to do with the Safety of the Child???? The fact that they dared to show up at his HOME demanding anything w/o a COURT ORDER is terribly wrong. How about I just call up the Humane Society and tell them you are screwing your sheep, and they arrive with Police insisting that you open your fly........like that would ya'???? STFU. BTW...just who the hell is "Someone"??? Shouldn't THEY be Identified here, since the CPS and Police considered them so trustworthy .
They have annonymous tip lines so people won't try and retalitate against tipsters. And yes, unnannounced.... kinda defeats the purpose if they say "Hey, we're gonna come check out a domestic report in two days" and give people time to you know, hide evidence in case of wrong doing. They asked him to open the safe, he refused and that was the end of that. If this were "tyranny" as he called it, they would have burst into his home, cuffed him and searched the safe no matter his protests.