By Miranda Leitsinger on U.S. News

  • Florida court: Undocumented immigrant can't be admitted to bar

    Denny Henry for NBCNews.com

    Jose Manuel Godinez-Samperio poses for a portrait on Capitol Hill, April 19th, 2011. Godinez-Samperio is an undocumented immigrant who is pushing for immigration law reform.

    An undocumented immigrant who applied for a law license in Florida cannot be admitted to the bar, the State Supreme Court said Thursday in a case being watched closely by both sides of the immigration debate.

    But the decision, according to legal observers, did not appear to be an actual rejection of the request made by Jose Godinez-Samperio, 26.

    Rather, the court indicated it would be deciding on the larger question it had been asked -- whether or not to allow people unlawfully in the country to become lawyers -- and not on a specific individual case. 

    “In this cause, the Florida Board of Bar Examiners has petitioned this Court for an advisory opinion regarding a clearly stated question. The separate issue of the individual movant's admission is not before the Court,” the court said in a short order.

    The Florida Board of Bar Examiners asked the court in late 2011 to decide if undocumented immigrants can be admitted to the state bar after receiving the application of Godinez-Samperio, an undocumented youth who came from Mexico on a tourist visa with his parents as a child.

    The board, which filed the request for an opinion last year, said last year that Godinez-Samperio met their requirements though the court has yet to issue an opinion in the case.

    After receiving a work permit on Christmas Eve last year under the new deferred action program for undocumented youth, Godinez-Samperio had his lawyer submit a “motion of admission” to the bar in January.

    That motion was rejected on Thursday, with the court indicating that the larger question on undocumented immigrants – not the specific case of Godinez-Samperio – was what they had been asked to review even though Godinez-Samperio's lawyer had been making filings in the case.

    Bob Blythe, general counsel of the Florida Board of Bar Examiners, said he didn’t “think that it’s accurate to say that the court has denied him (Godinez-Samperio) admission.”

    "They’re just saying this case isn’t about his admission but rather the more general question,” Blythe told NBC News. “The answer from the court in this case is going to be whether undocumented immigrants can be admitted and then once we get that then the court will take the appropriate action with regard to his application. … In many respects it really doesn’t change anything at this point.”

    Godinez-Samperio said the meaning of the order wasn’t entirely clear to him, but that he too felt the court was saying it would first address the larger question.

    “We had moved to the court (in January) to just go ahead and admit me already and it’s a very strange ruling … One thing we are sure about is that I haven’t been denied to become a lawyer yet,” he said, noting that he didn’t view it as a setback.

    “If anything … I am glad somebody’s looking at the file and I hope -- although I can’t predict what the court will do -- I hope that this means they’ll make a ruling soon,” he added.

    Blythe said the court didn’t have a deadline or time frame for when it would issue a ruling.

    Godinez-Samperio came to the U.S. at age nine with his parents from Pachuca, Mexico. They entered the country on tourist visas, which they overstayed. During that time, Godinez-Samperio graduated from high school, college and law school.

    A case similar to his in California has reached that state’s supreme court, too. There, the State Bar of California has gone further than its Florida counterpart in saying that Sergio Garcia, a 36-year-old who was born in Mexico and first came to the U.S. as a child, should get a license, noting he had met the rules of admission and that his lack of legal status in the U.S. should not automatically disqualify him.

    Related:

  • Law enforcement leads the way in overturning bad convictions, group says

    Reza A. Marvashti / The Free Lance-Star via AP

    Michael Wayne Hash is escorted to a police car in Culpeper, Va. on March 14, 2012. A Culpeper County Circuit Judge ordered Hash's release after his life sentence for killing an elderly woman was tossed out by a federal judge. That judge overturned Hash's 2001 murder conviction, citing prosecutorial and police misconduct and an inadequate defense.

    The number of cases in which prosecutors or police helped exonerate people convicted of crimes surged in 2012, passing 50 percent for the first time, a research group said Wednesday.

    Authorities led or cooperated on investigations into 34 of last year’s 63 known exonerations, the group said.

    “To the extent that they are focused … on correcting errors that have been made, that’s really good news,” said Professor Sam Gross, editor of The National Registry of Exonerations, a project of the law schools at the University of Michigan and Northwestern University. “That means that more innocent people will be released and that we’ll, over time, learn more about the process that produces mistakes like this and avoid more tragic errors.”

    The development may reflect the spread of what are often known as Conviction Integrity Units in district attorney’s offices in major cities across the country as well as changes in state laws making it easier to do post-conviction DNA testing, according to the registry, which launched last year and provides information about exonerations since 1989.

    Gross said it was an important change, noting that police and prosecutors are the “central actors” in the criminal justice system and had the key role of investigating crimes and pursuing justice. “They have more information; they have more power than anybody else,” said Gross.

    But Scott Burns, executive director of the National District Attorneys Association, took exception to the report’s findings, particularly that it was the first time law enforcement helped in a majority of such cases.

    “It’s offensive because that’s our job all the time is to … hold the guilty accountable, but our job is (also) to make sure that the innocent are acquitted or exonerated,” he said. “We do that in every case.”

    He also objected to some of the exonerations, saying that in decades-old crimes being challenged today, there were bars to prosecutors re-trying these cases, such as dead witnesses or lost evidence.

    “A number of these people are not innocent,” he said. “I can’t stress this enough because you have victims out there. … If you live through that kind of stuff it’s maddening.”

    He also noted that the 1,089 exonerations found by the registry from 1989 to 2012 was a small number compared to the more than 10 million felony cases that prosecutors nationwide handle annually.

    Man held for 42 years in deadly Arizona hotel fire freed from prison

    The registry uses its own criteria to determine when someone has been exonerated, since there is no such legal category. People have been exonerated through a governor’s pardon, court dismissal of the case, acquittal on retrial and a few through court-issued “certificates of innocence” or “declarations of wrongful imprisonment.” This includes cases where DNA testing was a factor. Some people have been exonerated posthumously.

    Code snippet for US news stories:

    The 2012 exonerations included those charged with murder, including: Damon Thibodeaux, who was cleared by DNA testing in the rape and killing of his 14-year-old step cousin and was released from death row; Michael Hash, who was was freed after 12 years following his life sentence conviction in the killing of an elderly woman. A federal judge vacated the conviction, citing misconduct by the prosecutor and police, and an inadequate defense.

    The conviction integrity units, have emerged in recent years in Dallas, Houston, New York (Manhattan and Brooklyn), Santa Clara, Calif., and Lake and Cook counties in Illinois to review disputed cases. Some state attorneys general, such as in Virginia and Colorado, have also undertaken programs to facilitate exonerations or help particular defendants.

    A snapshot of the 1,050 individual exonerations from January 1989-December 2012:

    --  93.2 percent were men; 6.7 percent were women.

    --  The race of the defendants was known in 97.6 percent of the cases: 47.3 percent were black, 38.5 percent were white, 12.2 percent were Hispanic and 1.8 percent were Native American or Asian.

    --  9.4 percent pled guilty. The rest were convicted at trial: 82.2 percent by juries and 7 percent by judges. In about 1 percent of the cases, the Registry could not determine whether the trial conviction was by a jury or judge.

    --  32.4 percent were cleared at least in part through DNA evidence

    --  67.5 percent were cleared without DNA evidence.

    --  Nearly all had been in prison for years: half for at least 9 years; more than 75 percent for at least 4 years.

    Related:

    Wrongfully imprisoned for 23 years, freed man suffers heart attack a day after release

    Conviction: Reporter's 10-year quest for answers in little-known murder case

    Witness error: How mind tricks can put the innocent behind bars

  • Boy Scouts: Utah gay pride center can't sponsor troop

    Tim Sharp/Reuters file

    A statue of a Scout stands at the entrance to the Boy Scouts of America headquarters in Irving, Texas.

    The Boy Scouts of America said Monday that the Utah Pride Center — a LGBT advocacy group — could not charter a troop, even though the group said it would comply with the youth organization's controversial policy banning gay Scouts and leaders.

    The Utah Pride Center submitted its application in late February to sponsor a troop with heterosexual leaders and middle-school age boys several weeks ago, said Valerie Larabee, the center's executive director. She said the bid, which comes ahead of the BSA vote in May on whether it should keep the ban, was not a stunt.

    "We feel great concern for youth that may be involved in Scouting right now that are hiding something and we don’t ask our kids when they come to our campus here whether they are gay, straight or anything else," she told NBC News by phone. "We assume that they're here because they think this is a safe place and as a safe place we think that we can offer an incredible opportunity to young people who want to be involved in BSA."

    Larabee said they submitted their application to Rick Barnes, the chief executive officer of the Great Salt Lake Council. Barnes referred questions to the BSA headquarters, "since this was a national decision."

    When contacted for comment on who had reviewed the application and why it was rejected, the BSA said in a two-sentence statement: "The BSA is engaged in an internal discussion about its membership standards policy and is working to stay focused on Scouting’s mission. Based on the mission of this organization [the Utah Pride Center] we do not believe a chartered partner relationship is beneficial to Scouting.”

    Larabee said she knew their file was passed higher within the BSA, but did not know if it reached the national headquarters and said they'd had no response from the organization -- just that their application had been returned without remarks on March 4. The center took it as a denial.

    "We are disappointed," she said. "It's almost like they don't even want to acknowledge that we even applied. It's like they just want us to go away." 

    A call placed to a Boy Scout leader who The Salt Lake Tribune said would lead the new troop committee, Nile Eatmon, was not immediately returned. Eatmon, a member of the Great Salt Lake Council's executive board, told the newspaper that he didn't see a problem with the center hosting a troop.

    "I was surprised. I thought the Pride Center application complied with the Boy Scouts’ policies," Eatmon said. "All the adult members and youth that were submitted with the application were straight."

    Faith-based organizations, civic and educational groups often charter Boy Scout units, providing meeting facilities and leadership among other things. More than 70 percent of the Scouting unit in 2012 were chartered to faith-based organizations, and Larabee believed their application may be a first by a LGBT group, although the BSA did not respond to a question about that.

    Related: Can a gay Boy Scout share a tent with another boy? Boy Scouts survey members on anti-gay policy


    The BSA announced in late January that it may ditch the national policy banning gays, instead leaving that up to local sponsoring organizations to decide. It then pushed back a decision on the policy to May, when some 1,400 members of Scouting's National Council will vote on a resolution that Boy Scouts' officers are crafting.

    The membership guidelines have roiled the organization in recent years.

    Last July, the BSA said it was sticking with the ban following a confidential two-year review of the policy. That review was announced months after Jennifer Tyrrell was dismissed from her post as leader of her son’s Tiger Cubs den because she is a lesbian, and a few months before California teen Ryan Andresen was denied his Eagle award because he is gay.

    Both cases made national headlines for several weeks, and led a few hundred Eagle Scouts to turn in their hard-earned regalia in protest of the ban, which the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in 2000.

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the BSA's upcoming decision on the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related stories: 

    Boy Scouts: We need more time for decision on gay Scouts

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays 

    'BATTLESTATIONS!': Call-in war waged over Boy Scouts' ban on gays

     

  • Gay rights timeline: Key dates in the fight for equality

    Fred W. McDarrah / Getty Images

    One month after the demonstrations at the Stonewall Inn, activist Marty Robinson speaks to a crowd before the first mass march in support of gay rights in New York on July 27, 1969.

    From its beginning with riots against police oppression of gays in New York City more than 40 years ago, the fight for gay rights continues today on new fronts: over marriage, therapies to “cure” homosexuals and one of the country's most popular institutions, the Boy Scouts of America.


    Next week, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear arguments in two landmark, same-sex-marriage cases.

    “The swift road to marriage equality has produced millions of conversations around the dinner table and water cooler on the freedom of every American to marry the person they love. It is these conversations that have changed minds. But while we've reached the tipping point on marriage, there's still a ways to go for full LGBT equality, like ending bullying in schools and workplace discrimination,” Kevin Nix, a spokesman for the LGBT advocacy group, Human Rights Campaign, said in a statement.

    Here is a look at some of the key moments in American LGBT history:

    June 28, 1969: Start of the gay rights movement
    The Stonewall Riots begin after police raid a popular unlicensed gay bar, the Stonewall Inn, in New York City's Greenwich Village. The riots, which lasted for days, were triggered by police harassment of gays, according to media reports. This is considered by many to herald the start of the gay rights movement in the U.S.

    June 27-28, 1970: First gay pride parades
    On the anniversary of the Stonewall Riots, the nation's first gay pride parades are held in four cities – New York, Chicago, San Francisco and Los Angeles. Fred Sergeant, who attended the NYC parade, reflected in the Village Voice: “Back then, it took a new sense of audacity and courage to take that giant step into the streets of Midtown Manhattan. ... I stayed at the head of the march the entire way, and at one point, I climbed onto the base of a light pole and looked back. I was astonished; we stretched out as far as I could see, thousands of us.” Pride events now are held worldwide every year.

    AP

    San Francisco Supervisor Harvey Milk, left, and Mayor George Moscone in April 1977.

    Nov. 27, 1978: Assassination of Harvey Milk
    Milk became the first openly gay man elected to office in a major U.S. city when he won a seat on San Francisco's Board of Supervisors in early 1978. An outspoken advocate for gay rights, he urged gays to come out and fight for their rights. Milk and Mayor George Moscone were assassinated by former supervisor Dan White. But Milk's legacy has lived on and California has designated May 22 as a day of “special significance” in his honor.

    1981: The AIDS crisis
    Gay advocacy groups form to deal with the crisis gripping the community amid a slow government response to AIDS and the linking of the disease with gay men. Over the years, the AIDS Quilt will form, and some well-known figures will succumb to AIDS, including actor Rock Hudson, or be diagnosed with it, like basketball star Magic Johnson.

    Wilfredo Lee / AP

    President Bill Clinton answers questions during a news conference in Taylor, Mich., in 1996.

    1993: 'Don't ask, don't tell'
    President Bill Clinton enacts "don't ask, don't tell," a policy preventing gays from openly serving in the military. Under it, an estimated 13,000 people were expelled from the U.S. Armed Forces. President Barack Obama repealed the policy in 2011. 

    1996: Congress bars federal recognition of same-sex marriage (DOMA)
    Congress passes the Defense of Marriage Act. Section 3 of the statute bars recognition of same-sex marriage, affecting more than 1,100 provisions of federal laws. It denies gay couples the right to file joint taxes and the protections of the Family Medical and Leave Act, and it blocks surviving spouses from accessing veterans’ benefits, among other things. The Supreme Court will hear a challenge to DOMA on March 27, 2013. Bill Clinton, who signed the legislation, recently came out against the law and asked the Supreme Court to repeal it.

    April 30, 1997: 'Yep, I'm gay' -- Degeneres comes out 
    Ellen Degeneres comes out on her television show, "Ellen," in an episode that drew in 42 million viewers. Her ratings plunged, which she said was due to a lack of promotion, and the show was pulled the next season, according to The Hollywood Reporter. But she bounced back and she now hosts a popular afternoon talk show, "The Ellen Degeneres Show." Her “coming out” heralded an era of other gay celebrities following suit, and LGBT leading ladies and men have in the last year said they felt it was unnecessary to reveal their sexual preference.

    Evan Agostini / Getty Images

    Candlelight vigil for slain gay Wyoming student Matthew Shepard.

    Oct. 12, 1998: Matthew Shepard's beating death
    Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson rob and beat Shepherd, a 21-year-old college student, and tie him to a split-rail fence outside of Laramie, Wyo. He dies on Oct. 12, less than a week after the attack. The murder, for which the pair are each serving two consecutive life sentences, inspired "The Laramie Project," a play and later film about Laramie in the year after the murder, and federal hate crimes legislation approved in 2009 that bears Shepard's name.

    2000: Boy Scouts can ban gays
    The Supreme Court rules that the Boy Scouts of America can bar gay Scouts and leaders from membership, saying that as a private youth organization it has the right to do so. Under increasing pressure in recent years to change the policy, the BSA has said it will hold a vote on the controversial membership guidelines in May.

    Toby Talbot / AP

    Lawyers Susan Murray, left, and Beth Robinson brought a lawsuit before the Vermont Supreme Court that led to the court's decision on same-sex marriage in 2000.

    2000: First state to allow same-sex civil unions
    Vermont becomes the first state to allow same-sex couples to join their lives via civil unions. The state approved same-sex marriage in 2009.

    2003: Anti-sodomy law struck down
    The Supreme Court strikes down a Texas anti-sodomy law, reversing an earlier decision made in another case 17 years earlier that Justice Anthony Kennedy said “demeans the lives of homosexual persons.” Gays are ''entitled to respect for their private lives," Kennedy said for the court, according to The New York Times. ''The state cannot demean their existence or control their destiny by making their private sexual conduct a crime.'' 

    2004: State same-sex marriage bans
    A dozen states pass constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriage. The amendments become a popular method to attempt to block legislative acts and judicial decisions on the issue.

    Rich Pedroncelli / AP

    Jeff Barr, left, places a wedding ring on Wes Wilkinson at the Yolo County clerk's office in Woodland, Calif. on June 16, 2008. They were among the first gay couples to wed in Yolo County after the California Supreme Court overturned a ban on same-sex marriages.

    2008: California's Prop. 8 nixes gay marriage
    California’s Supreme Court rules that gays and lesbians should be allowed to wed. For a short time that year, some 18,000 same-sex couples tie the knot in the Golden State. But in November, voters approved a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage (Proposition 8) after a hard-fought, multimillion-dollar campaign – one of the most expensive on this issue. The Supreme Court will hear a challenge to Prop. 8 on March 26, 2013.

    Pete Souza / White House via EPA

    In an interview with Robin Roberts of ABC's "Good Morning America," on May 9, 2012, President Barack Obama spoke in support of gay marriage for the first time as president.

    May 9, 2012: First sitting president to support same-sex marriage
    Barack Obama becomes the first sitting U.S. president to back marriage for gay and lesbian couples. It marked a reversal from his 2008 campaign, when he said he opposed same-sex marriage but favored civil unions as an alternative. His announcement came one day after voters in North Carolina passed a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage as well as civil unions for gay and lesbian couples.

    Nov. 4, 2012: In a first, gay marriage wins at the ballot box
    Voters in Maine approve same-sex marriage in the first vote brought by supporters, while voters in Maryland and Washington uphold state legislation allowing gays and lesbians to wed. And in Minnesota, voters reject – for just the second time nationwide – a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

    Related:

    Same-sex marriage's big day in court: What's at stake?

    Once 'inconceivable,' Republican leaders sign pro-gay marriage brief

    Even before Supreme Court rules, gay marriage battles rage in the states


  • Same-sex marriage's big day in court: What's at stake?

    Jonathan Ernst / Reuters

    Anti-Proposition 8 protesters are shadowed by a rainbow banner in front of the U.S. Supreme Court in Washington, on March 26.

    It's a big week for the Supreme Court as justices hear two landmark same-sex marriage cases on consecutive days.


    One is a challenge to the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act (more commonly known as DOMA), which bars federal recognition of same-sex marriages. The other is a challenge of California's Proposition 8, a ban on same-sex marriage that was approved by voters in 2008.

    Here are answers to some of the key questions being asked about these cases -- which could have huge implications for hundreds of thousands of gay families, dozens of state laws and even the national political landscape.


    Why is the Supreme Court hearing these cases now?

    The Prop. 8 case and several different challenges to DOMA have slowly wound through lower courts over the years. Observers predicted justices would take one of the DOMA challenges but they didn't expect them to grab the Prop. 8 case, too. The thinking is that the justices feel it’s time to address the question of same-sex marriage, so they now have a state and a federal challenge (interestingly, the DOMA case they selected, United States v. Windsor, was the newest of the bunch).

    Why are they being heard so close together?

    The cases are related because they both address whether gays and lesbians have the right to wed. The federal case is more focused on the benefits that same-sex couples are denied under the Defense of Marriage Act, while Prop. 8 centers around the right to marry. Ultimately, though, gay marriage supporters say they are both about whether gays and lesbians are treated differently because of their sexual orientation.

    Could the Supreme Court legalize gay marriage everywhere?

    Paul Katami and Jeff Zarrillo, one of two gay couples fighting to strike down California's ban on gay marriage will have their case heard Tuesday at the Supreme Court.

    The court can go many ways in its ruling in the California case. It could maintain the narrow focus that a federal court had in overturning Prop. 8, when it ruled that a fundamental right like marriage can't be granted and then taken away (couples were briefly allowed to wed in 2008 in the Golden State before voters approved Prop. 8, ending the practice).

    Alternatively, the high court could say state prohibitions of same-sex marriage are unconstitutional, opening the door for gays and lesbians to wed in states where that's banned. Another possibility is that the justices could overturn the lower court's decision and reinstate the ban on gay marriage.

    They could also say the group bringing the challenge doesn’t have standing. Yeah, that’s a lot of possibilities.

    In the DOMA case, the justices also could address the constitutionality of gay marriage or they could find that the federal government should not be in the marriage business at all and instead leave that up to states to regulate.

    If I’m a married gay couple, should I be worried that one of these rulings could affect my marriage?

    Edie Windsor describes her 44-year relationship with same-sex spouse Thea Spyer, and how Spyer's death inspired her to fight for gay marriage rights in a case that will be heard in the Supreme Court Wednesday.

    No. It's highly unlikely the Supreme Court would make any ruling that negatively affects laws permitting same-sex marriage in the nine states plus the District of Columbia that allow gays and lesbians to wed. There’s mostly just upsides for already-wed couples.

    For example, if the court decides DOMA is unconstitutional, couples would then receive all of the benefits that have been denied to them under that federal law, such as the right to file joint taxes, the protections of the Family Medical and Leave Act, and the ability of surviving spouses to access veterans’ benefits. Edie Windsor, the DOMA plaintiff, said she had to pay some $363,000 in federal estate taxes after her wife died, a bill that she wouldn't have had if they were a heterosexual couple.

    Could ministers be forced to preside over gay weddings?

    It does not seem so. At this point, most of the laws allowing same-sex marriages or civil unions provide exceptions for religious institutions that object to the ceremonies (New Jersey's civil unions bill does not have such a provision but the state's attorney general has given a clear opinion that such groups would be). This is a key area of concern often expressed by opponents of same-sex marriage. 

    What about civil unions? Why can't states just have those instead of same-sex marriages?

    Well, six states do, and other states, like California, allow for domestic partnerships (these often guarantee the same rights and responsibilities as marriage). The Obama administration, in a legal argument it submitted calling for the end of Prop. 8, said creating such a parallel system was only meant to deny the “marriage” label and was therefore discriminatory against gays and lesbians. Opponents say these kinds of legal arrangements help preserve traditional marriage while giving gays and lesbians a path to be legally recognized as a couple.

    I'm confused: civil unions, domestic partnerships, same-sex marriages?

    Yes, a patchwork of state laws and constitutional amendments govern marriage across the country. 

    What does the anti-gay marriage camp argue?

    They say the tradition of marriage is thousands of years old and defines a male-female union. They also argue that the state has an interest in promoting traditional families, and that procreation can only happen between a man and a woman. Finally, they say decisions about who can marry should be left up to the voters, not judges or lawmakers.

    When are we going to hear from the justices?

    In June, stay tuned.

    I feel like a lot has been going on around these issues the last month or so. Is that right?

    Yes, with the Supreme Court deadlines to file legal briefs in the cases, dozens of businesses, scholars, health experts, religious groups, gay and lesbian advocacy organizations, NFL players and the Obama administration have weighed in.

    More than 131 Republicans, almost all out of office and some who once opposed same-sex marriage, submitted their argument on why gays and lesbians should be allowed to wed. Former President Bill Clinton recently penned an op-ed saying DOMA, which he signed into law, was unconstitutional and should be repealed. Days later, Hillary Clinton publicly announced her support for gay marriage, with some observers suggesting this may signal her presidential ambitions for the 2016 campaign.

    Any idea how the justices will go?

    Nothing is for sure (look at last year's health care decision), though pundits believe Justice Anthony Kennedy could be the swing vote. Some observers think DOMA's days as federal law could be over, but what the justices decide to do with Proposition 8 -- the California gay marriage ban -- is impossible to predict.

    Related:

    Gay rights timeline: Key dates in the fight for equality

    Couples leading Prop. 8 fight: We are very excited to have the end in sight

    Rush to the altar: Public figures proclaim support for gay marriage before Supreme Court arguments

     

    This story was originally published on

  • Couples leading Prop. 8 fight: 'We are very excited to have the end in sight'

    Justin Sullivan/Getty Images

    SAN FRANCISCO, CA - DECEMBER 06: (L-R) Same sex couples and plaintiffs Sandy Stier, Kris Perry, Paul Katami and Jeffrey Zarrillo look on at a news conference following a hearing at the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on December 6, 2010 in San Francisco, California.

    Two gay California couples who are leading the legal fight to overturn the state's ban on same-sex marriage said Thursday on the eve of their landmark Supreme Court hearing that they were relieved to have "the end in sight" and believe the justices will step in "to right these wrongs."

    Kris Perry and Sandy Stier, and Paul Katami and Jeff Zarrillo, are the faces to the challenge to Proposition 8, a citizen's initiative denying gays and lesbians the right to wed that voters approved in a pitched multi-million dollar ballot battle in 2008. The court will hear arguments in the case on Tuesday.

    “The right thing for the justices to do is to lead the country on including all of us in this institution and finding a way to equity and fairness that brings the country together rather than dividing us based on a characteristic that we cannot change,” Perry said on a call to reporters. 

    Photo by Kevork Djansezian/Getty Images

    Plaintiffs Kris Perry (L) kisses her partner Sandy Stier during a rally to celebrate the ruling to overturn Proposition 8 on August 4, 2010 in West Hollywood, California.

    “There is an opportunity here for the court to send a message that who we love is important and we should be treated equally under the law," she added.

    The couples will be in Washington, DC, for the historic hearing, which comes one day before the justices hear arguments contesting the constitutionality of a federal law, the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), that bars recognition of same-sex marriage and thereby denies more than 1,100 benefits to gay and lesbian couples. 

    "We both are very relieved and excited by the prospect of the final chapter in this case happening in the next few months,” Perry said, adding that they have "been waiting a very long time to be married and to celebrate that with our children and our parents. … I know that we are both very excited to have the end in sight."

    The couples' journey began years earlier, when they decided to join the legal effort and testified before lower courts about the impact the ban has had on their lives. They further entered the public realm as advocates, doing interviews and television/online spots about their campaign.

    Photo by Kevork Djansezian/Getty Images

    Lawyer Theodore Olson (L) and his clients Paul Katami (C) and his partner Jeff Zarrillo attend a rally to celebrate the ruling to overturn Proposition 8 on August 4, 2010 in West Hollywood, California. A federal judge overturned California's Proposition 8, a same-sex marriage ban, finding it unconstitutional.

    “All four of us have regular lives and we have jobs that we need to pay our bills and so we have to be able to plug in and unplug when that happens,” said Zarrillo, of Burbank. “But being a part of this case, and being so closely associated with it, it reminds us of the daily harm and that discrimination even more every day.”

    The legal struggle, he added, also “made us closer as a couple and has made us want access to that language even more, because the word 'marriage' and the word 'husband' and the word 'wife,' they have meaning” to society, family and children. 

    “It affirms the commitment that we have built and shared,” he said. “While some people say it's just a word, that word is so important. And if it wasn't so important, we wouldn't even be having this conversation."

    Stier, of Alameda, said being a part of the case has impacted their lives in a “dramatic way.” Two of the couple's four boys were headed to college when they joined the fight, but another two were just starting high school, and so that “experience has been happening in parallel with this case.”

    “For Kris and I, the focus of our lives has always has been and continues to be our family,” said Stier. “And that will continue to be the driving focus of our lives and it's really what helps us be inspired by the case – is that we want other families to have the greatest potential for success.”

    When the couples first joined the legal fight, the objective was to repeal Prop. 8, and lower courts sided with them. The latest court, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, said that since same-sex marriage was allowed in California for a few months in 2008 before the vote, it could not be taken away.

    The Supreme Court justices could agree with that lower court decision — in a move that would limit their ruling to couples in California — or they could side with the backers of Prop. 8. Efforts to reach the backers, ProtectMarriage.com, for comment on Thursday were not immediately successful.

    The court also could broaden out their ruling to recognize same-sex marriage in all states, as the couples' attorneys have argued, saying that the more than 30 statewide bans on gays and lesbians getting married violate the U.S. Constitution. Nine state, plus the District of Columbia, allow same-sex marriage.

    “If we've learned anything through this journey, it's that when the minority rights are being oppressed by a majority the court is supposed to step in, and some times it's not always popular for them to do so,” Zarrillo said. “We would expect the court to step in and right these wrongs."

    As their legal battle seemingly winds down, Stier said the couples know that the journey they embarked upon is not their's alone but will affect many others, noting she felt they – and thousands more couples – were “on the cusp” of being able to finally legally wed.
     
    “We are ... struck by the importance not only of being married but of a shift happening in the country that will affect generations to come,” she said. “When we imagine the day, we're standing somewhere and taking our vows and deciding to be married, we will not only be committing to each other but will be overwhelmed, I'm sure, by the power of this decision, not only for ourselves but for the whole country.”

    Meanwhile, the opposition is gearing up for the fight — and is expecting a win. As Brian Brown, President of the National Organization for Marriage said in a statement:

    "We, too, are looking forward to the court hearing. It represents the opportunity to right the wrong that was imposed by federal judges in stripping over 7 million California voters of their right to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman, the same definition that has guided civilization for thousands of years. We are confident of our position."

    Related:

    GOP sea change on gay rights?
    Clint Eastwood to Supreme Court: Drop California's ban on same-sex marriage
    US asks Supreme Court to strike down law denying benefits to same-sex couples

     

  • Highlighting 'vague' law, Santa Fe mayor encourages gay marriage

    Steve Snowden / Getty Images, file

    Santa Fe Mayor David Coss speaks during a public appearance in October 6, 2009 in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

    The Democratic mayor of Santa Fe is calling on New Mexico’s county clerks to begin issuing licenses to same-sex couples, saying it was time that everyone – including his lesbian daughter – should be treated equally under the law in a state that does not ban gay marriage.

    New Mexico is one of two states in the country that neither specifically allows nor explicitly bans gays and lesbians from getting married (the other is New Jersey).

    Nor does it offer civil unions or domestic partnerships to same-sex couples, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

    The marriage statute, which does not specify gender, is “sufficiently vague” on the issue, said Phil Sisneros, a spokesman for New Mexico’s attorney general.

    Mayor David Coss and City Attorney Geno Zamora teamed up to examine that legal question and believe that nothing in the state constitution or statutes prevent county clerks from issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Zamora issued a legal analysis of these findings, and the City Council is expected to vote on a resolution in support of Coss’ call on March 27.

    “People’s lives are short and when you’re waiting for your rights you know how long do you have to wait? I’m sorry we didn’t do it ten years ago. I don’t think we should wait another ten years before we push the issue,” Coss told NBC News. “Let’s start treating everybody equally under the law.”

    Though the resolution does not carry legal weight, Zamora, who has a gay brother, said they wanted to send a message to the Supreme Court before it hears landmark cases next week challenging a federal law (Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA) that bars recognition of same-sex couples and California’s Proposition 8, which prohibits gays and lesbians from getting married in the Golden State.

    “The decision was made … we cannot wait any longer to protect the rights of our brothers and sisters, our colleagues and our community members,” he said. “It’s very important for cities and city attorney’s offices to enter this debate recognizing equal rights for their citizens.”

    In 2004, a clerk for Sandoval county issued same-sex marriage licenses for one day before the state attorney general ordered her to stop, saying the 64 licenses were not valid, according to The Santa Fe New Mexican.

    Santa Fe County Clerk Geraldine Salazar told the newspaper on Tuesday that she wasn’t going to issue licenses to gay and lesbian couples, even though she’d like to, because she felt she couldn’t under the law.

    “I would love to be able to issue marriage licenses (to same sex couples) but under the current law, I feel I’m not free and clear to do so. The Legislature creates the laws and the judges interpret the laws and I as a county clerk do not create or interpret laws,” she said. “And I feel that my oath of office does not allow to me act counter to the laws of New Mexico.”

    Sisneros, of the attorney general’s office, said that the issue was unclear and felt nothing was likely to happen until a county clerk attempted to grant a license to a same-sex couple. At that point, an anti-gay marriage group may file a lawsuit or the attorney general could be asked to weigh in, among other possible scenarios.

    “This seems more properly characterized as an expression of the city’s position on same-sex marriages since it does not carry the force of law,” Sisneros said of the Santa Fe mayor’s resolution. “Our office, though, has not had the opportunity yet to weigh in on the specific question of whether same sex marriages are legal under New Mexico law."

    Previous state bills to ban or approve same-sex marriage have been rejected by New Mexico's lawmakers.

    Thomas Peters, a spokesman for the National Organization for Marriage which opposes same-sex marriage, said New Mexicans should be able to decide the issue for themselves. 

    "Allow the debate to continue and the people to decide, not activists mayors and judges," he said in a statement.

  • Irish PM to Sandy-hit community: 'Keep your spirit up'

    Michael Nagle / Getty Images

    NEW YORK, NY - MARCH 17: Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny (C) flanked by Rev. Nicholas DiMarzio (L), Bishop of Brooklyn, and Monsignor Michael J. Curran (right), pastor of St. Thomas More Catholic Church, high-fives an altar girl as he arrives at the church for Saint Patrick's Day Mass on March 17, 2013 in Breezy Point.

    BREEZY POINT, N.Y. — Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny on Sunday encouraged people in this coastal enclave hard hit by Hurricane Sandy and with strong ties to Ireland to "keep your courage up, keep your spirit up" as they rebuild and said his compatriots were behind them as they soldiered on.

    Breezy Point's Catholic Club Pipes & Drums welcomed Kenny, as did hundreds of community members, many who wore kelly green or shamrocks for St. Patrick's Day. Kenny joined Mass at St. Thomas More Catholic Church, where the altar was decorated with Irish and American flags flanking an iconic statue of the Virgin Mary saved from the storm rubble, and orange, white and green ribbons were pinned to the pews.

    "I'd like to think that in the times ahead ... this community will be restored to a stronger position than it's ever been. It may not be the same physically, but the heart of that community, the strength of that community, will be retained for the future," he said after Mass in a local gym-community center that was restored by Irish athletes and paid for with Irish government funds.


    "Keep your courage up, keep your spirit up. You will never be beaten if you do that," he added, at times mentioning the challenges Ireland had overcome, such as the mid-1800s famine, and the Irish concept of meitheal, or the community coming together to rebuild, to encourage the residents to push on.

     

    Hurricane Sandy rampaged through Breezy Point on Oct. 29, unleashing floodwaters that devastated some 75 percent of the community's 2,800 homes and helping to trigger a fire that claimed 126 houses in one of the oldest parts of the neighborhood.

    Some 20,000 residential buildings in New York City were damaged by the storm or their utilities were disrupted by it.

    The hurling and football players raised money in Ireland then arrived in Breezy Point, N.Y., to repair the community center and basketball court, which was later christened with bagpipes. NBC's Stephanie Gosk reports.

    Nearly five months later, people are struggling to return to Breezy Point, which was founded by Irish immigrants more than a century ago and is nicknamed the "Irish Riviera." The community is one of the most Irish neighborhoods in America, with more than half of the residents claiming Gaelic heritage, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

    Ireland gave $320,000 to community projects in the areas most affected by Hurricane Sandy, including $50,000 to rebuild the gym-community center in Breezy Point.

    Volunteer groups, some from Ireland and others Irish-American, have pitched in to help, such as those who rebuilt the gym and the Catholic Club across the street. The entrance to the gym reads, in Gaelic, "A thousand welcomes."

    "In Ireland, everybody knows about Breezy. ... Breezy has just become iconic," said the Consul General of Ireland, Noel Kilkenny. "It just captured the imagination ... Breezy became a piece of Ireland in New York."

    Homes here are in various stages of recovery: some have been reoccupied, while others are being rebuilt. Yet many others have been completely demolished, leaving behind only sand or some bits of foundation. Many of these homeowners have to await official approval of their rebuilding plans before they can begin construction.

    The toll of the rebuilding process — especially the length and the cost -- is adding up for folks, some who are awaiting insurance payments or other financing options to get back home.

    So Kenny's visit -- part of a week-long trip to the United States -- was a welcome boost for the residents, many who can trace their roots to Ireland. 

    "I think it really helped the morale of the entire community," said Marty Ingram, fire chief of the Point Breeze Volunteer Fire Department. "The timing was perfect because, you know, I think it's protracted and we're feeling the long-term effect of ... the impact."

    After Hurricane Sandy devastated the Breezy Point community in Queens, the neighborhood bagpipe band lost nearly everything. But they've found a way to recover – just in time for the big parade. NBC's Stephanie Gosk reports.

    As tears rolled down her face, Denise Sturm, 66, said: "I think it's very touching and it's good to know that people in Ireland have come to help us and we need help, we need that."

    She should be able to return home within two months, but others won't: "The sad thing is so many of the people (whose) houses were totally destroyed, the disappointment has come now where whatever the red tape is they're not able to get permits to rebuild."

    Sturm's friend, Evelyn Finn, said the visit "strengthens us." Her home, which once belonged to her grandmother, was flooded and may need to be raised several feet according to preliminary federal flood guidelines released in late January. She gets no federal aid since it was a second residence.

    "It makes it's real," Finn, 65, who attended Mass with her daughter and four grandchildren, said of Kenny's visit. "It makes it like it's doable. My god, if the prime minister of Ireland took enough time to come and see us ... it must be coming back."

    Peter Muhly / AFP - Getty Images

    See images from the festivities from New York to Moscow.

  • American Indian tribe OKs same-sex marriage, lets gay couple wed

    John Flesher / AP

    Tim LaCroix, left, and Gene Barfield recite their nuptial vows in the governmental building of the Little Traverse Bay Bands of Odawa Indians, Friday, March 15, 2013, in Harbor Springs, Mich. Tribal Chairman Dexter McNamara, center, officiated during the wedding after signing a measure approved by the tribal council that allows same-sex marriages on the reservation.

    The head of an American Indian tribe in Michigan signed a law approving same-sex marriage on Friday, joining at least two other tribes nationwide in doing so, then immediately wed a gay couple who had been together for 30 years but never thought they would see this day come.

    Dexter McNamara, chairman of the 4,600-member Little Traverse Bay Bands of Odawa Indians in northern Michigan, and a member of the tribe wed Tim LaCroix, 53, and Gene Barfield, 60, of Boyne City. McNamara read the couple's vows and led the ceremony in English, and the tribe member conducted a traditional tribal ceremony in their language before dozens of wellwishers.

    “I’m proud of my tribe for doing this and I love my husband,” LaCroix said. Barfield, who is not a tribe member, chimed in:"How could the world be better? … I'm just ... full of joy and happiness and I love my husband."


    A maple sapling, bent into a hoop with cedar, sage, tobacco and sweetgrass tied to it, was used in the tribal ceremony. The sweetgrass was lit, and the hoop was waved up and down over the couple to ward off evil spirits and bring in good spirits.

    “To have Tim’s tribal community, which are an ancient people, welcome me into their midst and …that we are welcome as a married couple in a community, I’m just flabbergasted at how good this makes me feel,” Barfield said, chuckling as he later added, “This goes to prove that the great American author Mark Twain was right: all things come to him who waits and doesn’t die in the meantime."

    It was not certain the tribe would recognize same-sex marriage: In 2012, the tribal council voted down a resolution, 5-4, to allow gays and lesbians to wed, but on March 3, the balance shifted and it was approved, 5-4. The resolution, which requires one member of the marrying couples to be a tribe member, then went to the desk of McNamara, who figured that if he vetoed it, the legislation would be unlikely to get the seven votes needed for an override.

    While he was mulling his decision, McNamara said LaCroix called and asked him what he was going to do. They and Barfield had once worked together for the tribe.

    “I started thinking about it, and that’s when I decided that, you know, we all deserve to be happy," he said, "and everybody is happy in different ways, they show their love in different ways, and I decided to sign it.”

    The newlyweds said that after McNamara signed the legislation, he received a standing ovation.

    "I’ve always felt that there’s two ways to do things and look at things … you believe in equal rights or you want to discriminate," McNamara said Thursday, noting he'd received mainly positive feedback in response to the decision.

    Courtesy of Annette VanDeCar, Li

    Tim LaCroix holds a feather while hugging Gene Barfield after their marriage ceremony on Friday. Both are part of the Little Traverse Bay Bands of Odawa Indians.

    Two other tribes -- the Coquille in Oregon and the Suquamish in Washington state -- have in recent years approved same-sex marriage. Other tribes -- perhaps from five to 10, though there could be more -- have open ordinances that don't define marriage as between a man and a woman, said Matthew Fletcher, a law professor at Michigan State University College of Law and director of the Indigenous Law and Policy Center.

    "It's pretty remarkable," Fletcher, a member of the Grand Traverse Band of Ottawa and Chippewa Indians, said of the tribe's action. "I mean Indian Country is mostly rural and insular and pretty conservative, so it's unusual for a rural community like this to sort of stick their necks out like this, but it gives you a sense of where I think we are as a nation in terms of being much more open toward same-sex marriage in a fairly short period of time."

    However, large tribes, such as the Cherokee Nation and Navajo Nation, ban same-sex marriage. The Cherokee Nation took action when a lesbian couple sought the right to marry in tribal court. The pair was ultimately successful in 2006 though the ban was imposed, scholars said.

    In smaller tribes, such as the Coquille and Suquamish, people know one another and so legally excluding same-sex couples has a more significant impact socially and politically rather than with a large tribe like the Cherokee, who have a big bureaucracy and are aiming to behave more like a nation-state, said Brian Joseph Gilley, a professor of anthropology and head of the First Nations Educational and Cultural Center at Indiana University, Bloomington.

    The impact of the Little Traverse Bay decision was unclear, though Fletcher said he thought it would carry weight with other tribes. Little Traverse Bay was an influential, average-sized tribe that has been, along with some other Michigan tribes, "very much in the forefront of some good progressive tribal governance measures in the last couple decades."


    "I do think it’s going to be influential," he said of the decision, "and it’s sort of a groundswell building in Indian Country that’s a little bit slower than the rest of the country, but it’s definitely building."

    McNamara, who said it was an "historic" day for the tribe, agreed, saying he thought other tribes in the state might take their lead.

    “We’ve been a role model, I think, for the federally recognized tribes of Michigan and it seems like we’re out in front -- and not taking anything away from the other federally recognized tribes -- but, you know, it seems like we kind of opened the door for other tribes and I think other tribes will follow," he said.

    Nine states plus the District of Columbia allow same-sex marriage, while more than 30 ban it, including Michigan -- where that law will apply outside the reservation. The Supreme Court in less than two weeks will hear cases challenging California's same-sex marriage ban, known as Proposition 8, and the federal law (Defense of Marriage Act or DOMA) barring recognition of same-sex couples.

    The federal law applies to tribes, too, said Melissa Tatum, director of the Indigenous Peoples Law & Policy Program at the University of Arizona. It is up to each tribe -- there are nearly 570 -- to decide where they fall on this issue, she said.

    "Some tribes have a culture and a history of accepting same-sex relationships and they don’t view it as anything unusual or different and some tribes have, like many states … they don’t have a culture of accepting it," she said. "Just like within the state populations you’re going to get the whole spectrum of attitudes in favor and against it in tribal governments."

    Whether a tribal government accepted such marriages was "not just based on changing social opinions but based on tribal culture," she added. "Tribes who take control of their own laws, who make culturally appropriate decisions about what their government policies are going to be, have far and away more successful, more stable tribal government."

    Related:

    GOP sea change on gay rights?

    Clint Eastwood to Supreme Court: Drop California's ban on same-sex marriage

    US asks Supreme Court to strike down law denying benefits to same-sex couples

     

  • Can a gay Boy Scout share a tent with another boy? Boy Scouts survey members on anti-gay policy

    Darrell Byers / Reuters file

    Robin O'Neal holds a sign during a prayer vigil at the Boy Scouts of America headquarters in Irving, Texas, on Feb. 6. The Boy Scouts of America have delayed until May a vote on whether to end a controversial ban on gay members.

    “Bob is 15 years old, and the only openly gay Scout in a Boy Scout troop. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the troop leader to allow Bob to tent with a heterosexual boy on an overnight camping trip?”

    “Tom started in the program as a Tiger Cub, and finished every requirement for the Eagle Scout Award at 16 years of age. At his board of review Tom reveals that he is gay. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the review board to deny his Eagle Scout award based on that admission?” 

    These are some of the questions on a survey being conducted by the Boy Scouts of America as the private youth organization prepares to decide whether it should end its controversial policy banning gay Scouts and leaders. The Boy Scouts intends to make a decision in late May on the ban, which has roiled the organization in recent years.

    More than 1.4 million surveys have been emailed to registered volunteers, parents of Scouts and alumni. The questionnaires were part of a biannual survey, “The Voice of the Scout Survey,” that the BSA conducts of leaders, parents and youth over 14 years old. But this time, the BSA used the survey to add questions about the policy banning gays (those questions went only to adults).


    BSA spokesman Deron Smith, who provided the questions on the survey to NBC News, said in an email that “the BSA is committed to dialogue on the topic of its membership standards policy, within the Scouting family at the local and national levels.” The group was in the listening phase, which included the survey of key stakeholders, he added. 

    The Boy Scouts’ policy has increasingly been a sore spot for the organization over the last year, following the dismissal of a den leader because she is a lesbian and the denial of the Eagle Scout rank to a California teen because he is gay. Some of the questions on the survey provide similar scenarios and ask respondents how acceptable or unacceptable these situations are.

    Tristam Harrington

    Tristam Harrington, an assistant district commissioner of the Water and Woods Field Service Council in Michigan, provided a screenshot of the survey, which he completed Wednesday morning.

    When the BSA announced in late January that it may ditch the national policy and instead let local sponsoring organizations decide if gays can join, the organization received a flood of responses from both sides. It then decided to push a decision to May, when some 1,400 members of Scouting's National Council will vote on a resolution the Boy Scouts' officers are crafting on the policy. The survey results will be shared with those officers, Smith said.

    Tristam Harrington, an assistant district commissioner for the Scouts in Okemos, Mich., who opposes changing the policy, said he thought the BSA had done a good job with the survey.


    The members “have the right to have their say and I think it’s better for them to understand exactly where their membership stands,” he said Wednesday. “Are you just assuming it needs to change or is this really a groundswell from within the organization? Is this an outside influence? A combination of both? … You don’t really know unless you ask, and I think it’s fabulous that they’re actually, you know, taking the time to now ask.”

    Steve Gates, Scoutmaster of Troop 98 in Taos, N.M., who supports changing the policy, agreed with Harrington.

     “They come at it from all sides and I think that’s good. I don’t see it as any kind of a biased survey,” he said.

    But he added that some of the questions may rile up some members opposed to the change who could perceive talk on the issue in the survey as having validated homosexuality.

    The survey was developed by a third-party research provider, North Star Opinion Research, with input from volunteer and professionals representing diverse viewpoints, Smith said. The Boy Scouts have asked for the surveys to be returned by April 4.

    The BSA also asked if the currently policy was a “core value” of Scouting and if respondents would leave the BSA if a decision was made that disagreed with their view.

    Other questions on the survey include:

    • A gay male troop leader, along with another adult leader, is taking a group of boys on a camping trip following the youth protection guidelines of two-deep leadership. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the gay adult leader to take adolescent boys on an overnight camping trip?
    • A troop is chartered by an organization that does not believe homosexuality is wrong and allows gays to be ministers. The youth minister traditionally serves as the Scoutmaster for the troop. The congregation hires a youth minister who is gay. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for this youth minister to serve as the Scoutmaster? 
    • Johnny, a first grade boy, has joined Tiger Cubs with his friends. Johnny’s friends and their parents unanimously nominate Johnny’s mom, who is known by them to be lesbian, to be the den leader. Johnny’s pack is chartered to a church where the doctrine of that faith does not teach that homosexuality is wrong. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for his mother to serve as a den leader for his Cub Scout den?
    • David, a Boy Scout, believes that homosexuality is wrong. His troop is chartered to a church where the doctrine of that faith also teaches that homosexuality is wrong. Steve, an openly gay youth, applies to be a member in the troop and is denied membership. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for this troop to deny Steve membership in their troop?

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the BSA's decision on the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related stories: 

    Boy Scouts: We need more time for decision on gay Scouts

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays 

    'BATTLESTATIONS!': Call-in war waged over Boy Scouts' ban on gays