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  • 31
    May
    2013
    4:36am, EDT

    After vote allowing gay kids to become Boy Scouts, some families call it quits

    Dan Koeck / for NBC News

    Aaron Butler said that after he told his 8-year-old son Evan that they were leaving the Scouts, "he sat on my lap and cried for 10 minutes."

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    The father of a Cub Scout sat his son on his lap late last week and told him news that tore up both their hearts: The family was leaving the Boy Scouts.

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    Aaron Butler, the leader of his 8-year-old son Evan’s Cub Scout Wolf den in Roseau, Minn., said he didn't explain to his eldest son exactly why they were walking away from an organization they loved so much, but he told NBC News that it was because of last week's controversial decision by the Boy Scouts of America to allow gay youth to participate.

    “It was a big disappointment ... he cried for about 10 minutes because I told him that the Boy Scouts were not honoring their own law," Butler said, referring to the BSA oath that he interpreted as barring gay people. "They say it -- 'On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep [myself] physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight,'” he said.

    “If the BSA cannot honor their own law, then how can I stay with an organization that just does not care anymore?” he said.

    As many Scouts and families rejoiced over the BSA's decision to partly end the membership guidelines that had drawn criticism from supporters of LGBT rights both inside and outside the organization, many others decried the move, with some BSA members making  the tough choice to pull out of one of the nation's most popular youth organizations.

    “I feel pretty bad about it,” Evan told NBC News, noting he liked the camp-outs, and archery and slingshot activities he enjoyed in Pack 56. He said that he understood there was a vote that led to his parents’ decision. He explained that he understood it as: “It was between honor and God, and not honoring God. And [not] honoring God got more votes.” 

    “It was something that we all enjoyed, we loved every week of it,” said Butler, 30, who works at a window and door manufacturer. “It's a shame that BSA had just caved like a deck of cards.” 

    Caved, Butler said, to pressure from activists to let gay youth join the group. The vote was approved by 61 percent of the 1,232 National Council delegates who cast a ballot at the BSA's annual meeting one week ago (another 168 delegates -- or about 12 percent of the total delegates -- were not present to cast a ballot). 

    “There were divisions about how to serve kids,” Tico Perez, the BSA national commissioner, said immediately after the vote. “If we have disagreement, if we have discomfort, we are going to talk through it. America needs Scouting.”

    “Our singular focus moving forward is serving more kids in Scouting, and we believe this resolution is going to do that,” he added.

    When asked about families saying they would leave over the decision, BSA President Wayne Perry said last week: “We think that on reflection that many of these people will decide that the best place for their kids is in Scouting.”

    A week on, BSA spokesman Deron Smith said the group couldn't yet quantify the impact of the amended policy. Most organizations that charter Scouting units were continuing with the program, but some had decided not to renew – in which case BSA executives would work with troop leadership to identify a suitable partner and ensure a smooth transition, he said.

    “Our local council professionals and volunteers are reaching out to our all chartered partners to review the policy and answer questions they have,” he wrote in an email. “We are finding that when people read the new policy they see it is reflective of the beliefs of most of Scouting’s major religious chartered organizations.”

    Not so for Mike A. Miller, a union electrician in Mount Holly, N.C., who said he was pulling his 9-year-old son, Cody, out of the Cub Scouts and would step down as assistant den leader of Pack 45. Monday will be his son's advancement ceremony to Webelos – as far as he will go with the organization.

    He said he talked to Cody before the vote – after it was announced in February – so it wouldn't be a one-time conversation.

    “It was hard to explain to a 9-year-old the complexities of why I was telling him that we had to quit,” Miller said. “He told me, 'Daddy, it should be like church. Everybody should be welcome.'”

    Miller said he then told Cody that the point of going to church is to seek forgiveness — not for being all-inclusive.

    “I said, 'These people aren’t asking for your forgiveness,'” Miller, 51, told NBC News in a telephone interview. “What they're doing is saying, 'this is what I am and you have to accept me like I am. I'm not coming to try to change.'

    "Be it right, wrong or indifferent, the Bible that I read says [homosexuality is] a sin,” he said.

    Miller said he and other families that would leave were talking about continuing some kind of program for the boys. He said he was going to look into an alternative faith-based group being put together by On My Honor — an organization started by a Florida dad and Scout volunteer, and composed of families and outside groups that oppose allowing gay youths and adults in the Boy Scouts. 

    As for adult leaders and volunteers, Boy Scouts officials last week said there would be no change to the adult membership policy, which excludes gays.

    That means that after a boy turns 18, he would graduate from the Boy Scouts and have to apply to become an adult leader – when the membership policy barring gays would apply.

    Gay rights activists pledged to continue their campaign to include adults even as they applauded the vote. They acknowledged there could be some attrition, but said the decision was the first step in the right direction for the organization.

    “Even though I think that there will probably still be a few folks who choose to walk away … I think this is the beginning of the rebound of Scouting in America,” Zach Wahls, founder of Scouts for Equality, said after the vote.

    Back in Roseau, Aaron Butler lamented that his sons – he has a younger boy, 6-year-old Emmett – would not achieve the Boy Scouts' highest honor of being an Eagle Scout and all of the recognition that comes with it.

    He said he had prayed weekly that the BSA “would stay straight.” Now that the vote has come and gone, he and another den leader would plot the next activity for the boys, “because we have to fill that vacuum with something good.”

    “The Boy Scouts gave us a sense of pride. They have done so much for all these kids … they have made a lot of these kids full of integrity and that’s what they teach – they did teach,” he said.

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the change in the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related stories:

    • Bittersweet victory for gay adults kicked out of Scouting
    • Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth

     

    6311 comments

    There have been and there always will be gay people, they are not not monsters nor child molesters, they are among us and many hide their preference to avoid being discriminated against. It is a shame that parents teach their children bigotry and hated. I had two gay cousins, they were both nice, on …

    Show more
    Explore related topics: gay, boy-scouts, scouts, cub-scouts, featured
  • 22
    May
    2013
    7:53am, EDT

    Scouts await decision on gay membership

    Stephen B. Thornton for NBC News

    Pack 215 Cub Scouts recite the Pledge of Allegiance after posting the colors at their pack meeting in the family life center at Eagle Heights Baptist Church on Tuesday in Harrison, Ark.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    Cub Scout Pack 215 in rural Arkansas is waiting for a vote that could mean big changes for their tiny outfit.

    That’s because of a decision being made Thursday at the national Boy Scouts of America annual meeting that will have ramifications for their pack and other Scout units across the country: whether or not to end its controversial policy banning gay Scouts.

    The 1,400 delegates of the National Council will vote on the policy at the BSA meeting in Grapevine, Texas.

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    More than 70 percent of Boy Scout units are sponsored by a religious group, some that do not want to allow gay youth to join. One is Pack 215, chartered by the Eagle Heights Baptist Church in Harrison, Ark. The church’s pastor has said it will not stay on as sponsor if the policy is changed.

    “This would be inconsistent with the biblical values and the essence upon which we operate our ministries,” said Pastor Jay Scribner, who said he would work with the pack to help it decide next steps should the policy change.

    Scribner said the decision to pull sponsorship would come “with a heavy heart, but at the same time, with firm biblical convictions.”

    The pack first learned of its potential fate in February from Scribner at the yearly Scout Sunday service, after the Boy Scouts initial announcement that it was thinking to include gay adult leaders as well as youth. After a vigorous public debate over the possible change in the longstanding membership guidelines, the private youth organization shelved the decision until the national meeting Thursday.

    Stephen B. Thornton for NBC News

    Pack 215 Cub Scout Dylan Heimer takes off in a soccer-dribbling contest pitting scouts against parents at their pack meeting Tuesday at Eagle Heights Baptist Church in Harrison, Ark.

     “We are faced with a very hard decision,” Pack 215’s Cubmaster, Carol Gilley, said last week. “This has been weighing heavy on my mind for a long time ... I finally told myself God is bigger than this problem so I'm just giving it over to God and I pray, I pray about it -- that things stay the way they are.”

    Some councils, which oversee the Scouting units, have publicly said they will not continue if gay youth are allowed, while others have called for not only youth but adults to be included. Some have also urged a local option – similar to what was done when blacks and women were first allowed in the BSA – that would let each charter partner decide.

    For Gilley and others in her pack, talking about homosexuality with their children is a non-starter. Gilley said they refer to the debate as “the issue” around the boys rather than using the word “gay,” and pack secretary, January Studyvin said she is dreading having a “gut-wrenching conversation” with son Daylon, about the fate of the pack.

    “We’re a small pack, and our Scout family is just not Scouts it’s an extension of our family … all of our children our close to the other parents,” Studyvin said. “We want to try to keep it going and making it work … keep it going at a personal level … no official awards, no official uniform. But (it) keeps them together and keeps them doing something … we have a lot of boys in our pack that this is all they do.”

    Eagle Heights Baptist Church is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Church. One of the SBC leaders, Dr. Frank Page, last week implored the Boy Scouts not to change the policy. But The Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints – the BSA's biggest charter partner-- has given tacit endorsement to the plan; the National Catholic Council on Scouting has yet to take a position. The United Methodist Church did not respond to a NBC News' request for comment.

    But BSA spokesman Deron Smith said the proposal was “in line” with the beliefs of most of BSA's major religious chartered groups.

    “Some have asserted that the proposed change for youth runs counter to values of and raises concerns among Scouting’s religious chartered organizations,” Smith said. “We are unaware of any major religious chartered organization that believes a youth member simply stating he or she is attracted to the same sex, but not engaging in sexual activity, should make him or her unwelcome in their congregation,” he said.

    Ralph Reed, a conservative Christian and lifelong Scout, has helped the BSA arrange conversations with the faith community on the proposal, Smith said.

    “We know many have strong religious beliefs about this issue, and the purpose of these discussions was to promote a dialogue based on mutual respect and a shared appreciation of Scouting,” he added.

    But he acknowledged that there could be some tough times ahead for the organization founded in 1910.

    “Regardless of the results of the vote, the membership policy will not match everyone’s personal preference. The Boy Scouts will undoubtedly face challenges; however, Scouting is bigger than this single issue, and good people can disagree and still work together to accomplish great things for youth,” he said.

    But as Pack 215 plans the annual promotion ceremonies for the boys at the end of the month, its future is unclear. If passed, the resolution would take effect Jan. 1, 2014, giving the pack some time to contemplate its next move.

    “We're just like one big extended family and we talk and we know for a fact if Boy Scouts decides to change their policy we're going to lose our charter organization,” Gilley said. “We're stressed about that, but what eases my mind about it all ... (is that) we're still going to have this family group.”

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the possibility of a change in the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related:

    Boy Scouts consider ending ban on gay members, leaders

    Scouts propose allowing gay scouts, but banning leaders

    Mormon church OK with ending Scouts' ban on gay youth

     

    2235 comments

    If you don't like the poicy of the Boy Scouts of America....DON'T JOIN!!! The scouts have a long history of doing things right, and I pray to god they don't cave in to the poiltical whim of the day.

    Show more
    Explore related topics: gay-rights, boy-scouts, cub-scouts
  • 6
    Feb
    2013
    4:56am, EST

    Boy Scouts on edge as they await decision on gays

    Jacquelyn Martin / AP

    Pascal Tessier, 16, center left, a Scout, and his brother Lucien Tessier, 20, who had earned the rank of Eagle Scout, pose for a portrait with their parents, Oliver Tessier, left, and Tracie Felker, at their home in Kensington, Maryland, on Monday. The two Tessier boys enjoyed Cub Scouts, progressed to Boy Scouts, and continued to thrive there even as many in their troop became aware that each boy was gay.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    Published at 4:45 a.m. ET: Special prayers have been urged, petitions handed in, phone calls placed and pleas for a delay made, all over a decision on an issue that has rocked one of America’s most popular youth organizations: whether or not gays can join the Boy Scouts.

    A decision by national Scout leaders is expected Wednesday. Some fear an unwanted new era, while others are welcoming what they believe is an overdue change that comes amid other recent gains for the LGBT rights movement nationwide.

    President Barack Obama has twice weighed in on the issue, earlier this week affirming his support for including gays in the Boy Scouts of America, while former Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum has called for an end to what he labelled the “war on Scouts.”

    “The Boy Scouts are a fundamental part of this nation’s moral bedrock and they are one of our great cultural institutions. We have trusted them to grow and develop our young men for over a century,” Zach Wahls, an Eagle Scout and son of a lesbian couple campaigning for gays to be included, said Tuesday. “They’re a big deal, and that is why this proposed change is so critically important.”

    Advocates on both sides of the issue have stepped up their campaigns ahead of the BSA's final decision: They’ve encouraged their backers to make their voices heard through a phone-in and email deluge. A conservative group, the Family Research Council, said that it and 41 other groups ran a newspaper ad on Monday asking the BSA not to change the policy, and some conservative religious groups have urged their supporters to join in prayer to ask the board not to accept gays.

    Related: 'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays 

    John Makely / NBC News file

    Ryan Andresen had recently completed the requirements to earning his Eagle Scout award, including his final project of building a "tolerance wall" for victims of bullying like himself, but his Scoutmaster would not sign off on honoring him with the Boy Scouts' highest ranking because he is gay, his mother said. Here, Ryan holds an Eagle Scout pin that was sent to him from a supporter.

    A coalition of Boy Scouts councils representing some 540,000 youth -- or 20 percent of the organization’s 2.6 million active Scouts -- asked the national organization on Monday to delay a decision on ending the controversial policy, saying it was concerned “about the pace at which such actions are being taken,” according to a statement posted on the website of the Utah-based Great Salt Lake Council.   

    Roger “Sing” Oldham, spokesman for the conservative Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee, said the outpouring of feedback on the issue came as no surprise to him since his group felt the BSA had not allowed opponents of the change to weigh in on the proposal, which was announced just a little more than one week ago and was being reviewed by national leaders.

    Oldham said he had spoken with some troop leaders, pastors and parents who have expressed concern about the way forward if gays are allowed, particularly those units that will try to maintain the ban locally as would be permitted under the proposal. For more than two-thirds of Scouting groups affiliated with religious bodies, faith plays a large role in the private youth organization.

    “When local chapters begin realizing the financial liability that they face if they exercise the local option then … they’re going to have to say we either fall into step or we have just to end the relationship,” he said. “There’ll be attrition over time and, you know, the Scouts will have permanently altered the face of who they are into the future.”

    'Feeling of shame'
    Some have said they will even leave the organization over the issue.

    Angela Russell, who has an 11-year-old in the Boy Scouts and a 9-year-old in the Cub Scouts, said that if the BSA allows gays, particularly as leaders, they would be “breaking their own highly held codes to be ‘morally straight’ and to commit to such principles via oaths and promises.”

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    If the ban is lifted, “I must remove my boys from this program. My heart truly aches to think of it,” Russell, of Auburn, Wash., wrote in a letter she emailed to NBC News. “However, to leave them in a program that goes against its own teachings would be worse.”

    But another mother, of a Boy Scout and two Cub Scouts, said she had “been torn for years” over the policy since her own mother is a lesbian and allowing gays would be a relief.

    “I am very happy about the things my children have learned and the tools they have been given from the program,” Gina Beaudry, 37, of Raleigh, N.C., who will be the Cub Scoutmaster for her sons pack this year, wrote in an email to NBC News. 

    “To have this ban lifted would take away some of the feeling of shame I feel for the organization that has been so beneficial to my children. I would hate to see any child or parent not feel like they were welcome in the program.”

    Related: After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    The proposed policy change comes just seven months after the BSA said it was sticking with its ban following a confidential two-year review.

    That review was announced months after Jennifer Tyrrell was dismissed from her post as leader of her son’s Tiger Cubs den because she is a lesbian, and a few months before California teen Ryan Andresen was denied his Eagle award because he is gay.

    Both cases made national headlines, roiling the private youth organization. Some critics pointed to declining membership numbers as a sign that families were being turned off over the issue. The controversy also prompted a few hundred Eagle Scouts to turn in their hard-earned regalia in protest of the ban, which the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in 2000.

    Wahls believes the Boy Scouts will lift the exclusion of gays and rejects the idea it will cause any “mass exodus.”

    “We don’t think that that’s going to be a problem at all and think that this move will definitely bolster Scouting for future generations,” he said, later adding, “Our generation has embraced LGBT rights, and like all things, Scouting should not be playing catch up, it should be blazing the trail.”

    Related: 

    Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy

    Eagle Scouts return badges to protest policy banning gays

    Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays 

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the possibility of a change in the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    867 comments

    Is everything in the USA going to change to suit the needs of Gays? Evidently they think so as daily we hear their demands so why? It appears Straight folks are suppose to respect their wants but they don't have the same respect so why is this? There are those who still BELIEVE that GOD created ma …

    Show more
    Explore related topics: discrimination, gay-rights, boy-scouts, cub-scouts, featured, lgbt
  • 25
    Jan
    2013
    6:58pm, EST

    Cub Scout pack may lose charter if it keeps gay-friendly policy

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    A Cub Scout pack in Maryland may lose its charter if it maintains a policy welcoming gay families and members, a Scout official said Friday, raising once more a controversial issue that has roiled the Boy Scouts of America in recent years.


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    Pack 442 of Cloverly, Md., is conducting a poll of its members on its website about whether to retain its non-discrimination policy, which reads: “Pack 442 WILL NOT discriminate against any individual or family based on race, religion, national origin, ability, or sexual orientation.”

    The members have until Friday 8 p.m., to decide if they will keep the policy and possibly not be rechartered, or if they will remove it and return to a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy welcoming all families, according to a statement on the pack’s website.

    Les Baron, Scout Executive of the National Capital Area Council, or NCAC, to which the pack belongs, confirmed that the pack could lose its charter if it maintains the policy, which he noted was against the Boy Scouts’ longstanding ban on openly gay Scouts or leaders.


    “Hopefully we don’t get to that point. We are working with the pack to try to work out our differences,” he told NBC News. “The policy of the Boy Scouts are what they are and my job is to not bring into (it) my own personal feelings, and all I am trying to do is maintain the quality and integrity of the Boy Scouts of America and its policies.”

    The pack said it must submit the chartering application by Saturday. At that point, Baron said, the council would then have to make a decision on the charter bid and would take the non-discrimination statement into account. He said the time to make a decision varied.

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    On the pack’s website, a statement said the council “contacted us a few weeks ago pressuring us to remove our statement, we attempted to negotiate a rewording of the statement that would represent a compromise on the matter, but ultimately NCAC leadership felt only removal of the statement would be acceptable.” The pack’s committee chair did not immediately respond to an email seeking comment.

    The policy was voted on by member families and “overwhelmingly approved” last August, according to the pack website, which also noted that its chartering organization supported the decision. The matter was discussed in detail with district leaders and the council from August through October 2012.

    “As was stated above, it was only recently that NCAC contacted us saying they would no longer ‘allow’ this statement to be posted,” the website said.

    The pack committee was split on the way forward, prompting the poll, according to the pack website.

    “Some of the leaders feel the principle of non-discrimination is too precious to allow BSA to dictate that we abandon our local policy. Others feel that we should acquiesce to removal of the policy statement and return to a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy,” the website said.

    Baron confirmed that he learned of the policy a few months ago. “The only reason that we do this program is try to provide quality opportunities and experiences for young people. It’s not about political issues and I’m sorry that it’s come down to that.”

    A national BSA spokesman, Deron Smith, said the private organization "has policies that all councils and local units agree to follow."

    "In this instance, this pack will need to evaluate if they agree to the annual chartered organization agreement," he wrote in an email to NBC News, adding that he wasn't aware of any special deadline given to the unit to make the decision. Baron said he was not aware of any deadline.

    The Boy Scouts reaffirmed its ban on gays and lesbians in 2012 following a two-year confidential review.

    After the Boy Scouts reaffirmed its policy banning gays, dozens of Eagle Scouts said in online postings that they had returned their medals, badges or membership cards in protest. But many other Eagle Scouts said they agreed with the policy. Since then, Smith has said there were no plans to revisit the membership guidelines.

    Activist groups stepped up their campaign to end the policy after Ryan Andresen, an 18-year-old California teen, was denied the Eagle rank late last year because he is gay, and following the dismissal of Jennifer Tyrrell last April from her post as den leader of her son’s Tiger Cub pack in Bridgeport, Ohio, because she is a lesbian.

    A number of troops have said they don’t follow the policy, and some companies and charities have said they would not contribute to the Boy Scouts because of the ban.

    239 comments

    “Pack 442 WILL NOT discriminate against any individual or family based on race, religion, national origin, ability, or sexual orientation.” Good for you, I hope your members and familys do what is right for your Pack. I support your policy.

    Show more
    Explore related topics: gay, lesbian, boy-scouts, cub-scouts, scouting, jennifer-tyrrell, ryan-andresen

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