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  • 26
    Apr
    2013
    8:58am, EDT

    Mormon church OK with ending Boy Scouts' ban on gay youth

    Richard W. Rodriguez/AP file

    Boy Scouts hold signs at the "Save Our Scouts" prayer vigil and rally in front of the Boy Scouts of America' national headquarters in Irving, Texas, on Feb. 6, 2013.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has given tacit approval to the Boy Scouts’ proposal to allow gay youth to join, saying they “appreciate the positive things” included in the plan to end the organization's controversial ban on gay boys.

    The Boy Scouts of America last week proposed allowing gay youth – but not adults – to participate in the private youth organization. That came two months after they floated the idea of allowing gays and lesbians of all ages to join, a proposal that was denounced by the conservative religious groups that make up a bulk of Scouting.

    “We are grateful to BSA for their careful consideration of these issues. We appreciate the positive things contained in this current proposal that will help build and strengthen the moral character and leadership skills of youth as we work together in the future,” the LDS church said Thursday in a statement posted to their website.

    “The current BSA proposal constructively addresses a number of important issues that have been part of the ongoing dialogue, including consistent standards for all BSA partners, recognition that Scouting exists to serve and benefit youth rather than Scout leaders, a single standard of moral purity for youth in the program, and a renewed emphasis for Scouts to honor their duty to God."

    The Mormon church tops the list of membership enrollment numbers, with 431,000 youths participating in LDS-sponsored units as of Dec. 31, 2012. That was followed by the United Methodist Church at 364,000 and the Catholic Church at 274,000. More than 70 percent of Scouting units are chartered to faith-based groups.

    The Boy Scouts said Thursday in a statement that it was pleased the LDS church was “satisfied that the BSA has made a thoughtful, good-faith effort to address this issue.”

    “For nearly 100 years we have worked together with the mutual goal of building the moral character and leadership skills of youth. We believe kids are better off when they are in Scouting, and the program is successful because of its relationships with valued chartered organizations like the Church,” the statement said.

    The Boy Scouts’ policy has increasingly been a sore spot for the organization over the last year, following the dismissal of a den leader because she is a lesbian and the denial of the Eagle Scout rank to a California teen because he is gay.

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    The BSA’s National Council will vote on changing the membership policy on May 23. Its biannual “The Voice of the Scout Survey,” conducted earlier this year, for the first time included questions on gay membership.

    Among the 280 administrative local councils, half recommended no change, 38 percent recommended a change and 14 percent took a neutral position, the Scouts said.

    "While perspectives and opinions vary significantly, parents, adults in the Scouting community and teens alike tend to agree that youth should not be denied the benefits of Scouting," the organization said last week in a statement.

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the BSA's proposed change to the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    468 comments

    This is BS. Gays can make excellent and are excellent leaders as well, they are toughened by the harshness of being rejected by society and are usually people-smarter for it.

    Show more
    Explore related topics: of, national, boy, youth, america, police, gays, council, vote, may, scouts, lesbians, membership, tyrrell, andresen
  • 21
    Feb
    2013
    1:09pm, EST

    Bill targeting Boy Scouts' tax exempt status draws criticism

    Darrell Byers/Reuters file

    Scouts attend a prayer vigil at the Boy Scouts of America headquarters in Irving, Texas, on Feb. 6, 2013, while a decision to change the membership policy banning gays was being deliberated. The BSA decided to postpone that decision until May.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    A proposed law in California to remove a state tax exemption for youth groups like the Boy Scouts that don’t allow gay members would set a dangerous precedent, according to an association of nonprofits.

    The legislation, introduced by Democratic State Sen. Ricardo Lara on Tuesday, would deny exemptions from state corporate taxes and taxes on items such groups sell. It would also require them to pay corporate taxes on donations and other forms of income.

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    Lara and LGBT advocacy group, Equality California, said the bill was aimed at groups like the Boy Scouts of America, which has faced increasing protests over its longstanding policy banning gay Scouts and leaders. An expert said she believed it was the first time such a law had been proposed, though it follows the loss of corporate sponsorship dollars to the BSA due to the policy.

    The California Association of Nonprofits, which has 1,500 member organizations, said it opposed the legislation in its current form, even though the group opposes discrimination based upon sexual orientation or gender identity as outlined in the bill, SB 323.

    “ … we are against using the tax exemption as a way to compel change in a nonprofit's policies,” Kris Lev-Twombly, the group’s director of public policy, wrote late Wednesday in an email. “Stripping nonprofits of tax exemption on ideological grounds is a slippery slope. Nonprofits are the embodiments of free speech in our society. When we disagree with a nonprofit's policies, we should vote by moving our donation dollars and our volunteer feet elsewhere.”

    The association said it is difficult to estimate how many of California's 50,000 nonprofits could be impacted because there is no reliable data on how many discriminate based upon sexual orientation. 

    “To lose state tax exemption in California could be significant for a nonprofit organization,” he said. “The bill is narrow in the sense that the provision applies specifically to youth organizations, but the question is how many organizations in California might be found to discriminate as outlined in the bill.”

    The law would require two-thirds approval of both houses of the state legislature to win approval. Lara said the state already bans discrimination based on sexual orientation in public accommodations and government programs.

    “Our state values the important role that youth groups play in the empowerment of our next generation; this is demonstrated by rewarding organizations with tax exemptions supported financially by all Californians,” he said in a statement. “SB 323 seeks to end the unfortunate discriminatory and outdated practices by certain youth groups by revoking their tax exemption privilege should they not comply with our non-discrimination laws.”

    The Boy Scouts of America declined to comment on the legislation, which comes about two weeks after it postponed a decision on whether to end the policy at the national level and leave local sponsoring organizations free to decide for themselves whether to admit gay Scouts.

    The BSA, a private youth organization, said it had received an outpouring of feedback on the membership guidelines after the potential change was announced in late January, and that it would take action on the issue at its national meeting in May.

    Boy Scouts: We need more time for decision on gay membership


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    More than two-thirds of Scouting groups are affiliated with religious bodies. Among the top religious sponsors, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have called for more time to discuss the issue, while the Southern Baptists on Tuesday passed a resolution rejecting the proposed change, according to the Baptist Press.

    Pat Read, an independent consultant for nonprofits and foundations nationwide, said she believed such legislation was a first. However, she said there was a precedent, noting a 1983 Supreme Court case in which the IRS said it would no longer provide tax exempt status to private schools that practiced racial discrimination – a fight the federal tax agency won.

    Read said the bill would have a financial impact and could potentially deter people from making donations.

    “When the federal government or a state government stands up and says that this nonprofit is not a good nonprofit because of some policy it has adopted, it affects the ability of people to support that group, it affects how much money it has available to support its programs versus paying taxes, and it affects public opinion about the value of its work,” she said by phone from Boulder, Colo. “And all three things are important and all three things are at stake in this legislation.”

    She said this legislation could wind up in court if it is approved, noting private organizations would likely object and say, "you have no right to try to tell us what to do.”

    “Some of them will be saying, you know, 'well tough we don’t need the tax exemption,'” she added. “But there will be a price to be paid for that.”

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the BSA's decision on the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related:

    'Nasty internal fight' or 'strategic pause': Boy Scouts supporters weigh delay on gays

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays 

    Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy

    720 comments

    I don't agree with this legislation.

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    Explore related topics: tax, boy, america, california, gays, lesbian, decision, status, policy, postponed, may, scouts, membership, exempt
  • 6
    Feb
    2013
    12:48pm, EST

    Boy Scouts: We need more time for decision on gay membership

    Jacquelyn Martin / AP

    Scout Pascal Tessier, 16, center left, and his Eagle Scout brother Lucien Tessier, 20 - both gay - seen here with their parents, Oliver Tessier, left, and Tracie Felker, at their home in Kensington, Md.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    Published at 11:43 a.m. ET: The Boy Scouts of America said Wednesday it needed "time for a more deliberate review" of its policy banning gay Scouts and leaders, delaying a final decision on the controversial membership guidelines that have dogged the private youth organization in recent years.

    "In the past two weeks, Scouting has received an outpouring of feedback from the American public. It reinforces how deeply people care about Scouting and how passionate they are about the organization," the BSA said in a statement.


    "After careful consideration and extensive dialogue within the Scouting family, along with comments from those outside the organization, the volunteer officers of the Boy Scouts of America’s National Executive Board concluded that due to the complexity of this issue, the organization needs time for a more deliberate review of its membership policy."

    The roughly 1,400 voting members of Scouting's national council will take action on the resolution at the national meeting in May 2013, the organization said.

    The BSA said last week it was considering changing the policy, leaving local sponsoring organizations free to decide for themselves whether to admit gay Scouts.

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    That announcement came just seven months after the BSA said it was sticking with its ban following a confidential two-year review and spurred advocates on both sides of the issue to step up their campaigns: They’d encouraged their backers to make their voices heard through a phone-in and email deluge.

    A conservative group, the Family Research Council, said that it and 41 other groups ran a newspaper ad on Monday asking the BSA not to change the policy, and some conservative religious groups have urged their supporters to join in prayer to ask the board not to accept gays.

    Jennifer Tyrrell, who was ousted as leader of her son’s Tiger Cubs den last year because she is a lesbian, said she was heartbroken over the news. She and other gay rights' advocates had hoped instead to be welcoming what they feel is an overdue change amid recent gains for the LGBT community nationwide.

    The Boy Scouts of America delays until May a vote on whether to end a ban on gay members. NBC's Jay Gray reports.

    "I had so much faith that they would make the right decision," Tyrrell, a mother of four from Bridgeport, Ohio, said through tears. "So many people are supportive of this. For them to make the announcement that they are going to possibly change it and then delay it, I just feel is -- it doesn’t make any sense."

    She added: "A Scout is supposed to be brave. What are they waiting for? They know they are on the wrong side of history. They know that."

    Courtesy Jennifer Tyrrell

    Jennifer Tyrrell, of Bridgeport, Ohio, and her son Cruz. Tyrrell was ousted from her role as leader of her son's Tiger Cub den last year because she is gay.

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which in 2011 sponsored 421,000 youth by chartering local troops, welcomed the decision.

    "The Church is following this proposed policy change very closely," a spokesman for the church, Michael Purdy, said in an email. "We believe the BSA has acted wisely in delaying its decision until all voices can be heard on this important moral issue."

    A coalition of Boy Scouts councils representing some 540,000 youth -- or 20 percent of the organization’s 2.6 million active Scouts -- asked the national organization on Monday to delay a decision on ending the controversial policy, saying it was concerned “about the pace at which such actions are being taken,” according to a statement posted on the website of the Utah-based Great Salt Lake Council.   


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    Roger “Sing” Oldham, spokesman for the conservative Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee, said the outpouring of feedback on the issue came as no surprise to him since his group felt the BSA had not allowed opponents of the change to weigh in on the proposal. Oldham said he had spoken with some troop leaders, pastors and parents -- some who said they would leave the BSA if the new policy was implemented. 

    With more than two-thirds of Scouting groups affiliated with religious bodies, faith plays a large role in the private youth organization.

    Oldham said Wednesday that his group was “very pleased” with the decision to wait and solicit input from all members of the Scouting family.

    “We continue to be hopeful, perhaps a little bit more guardedly optimistic than we were before, that the Scouting leadership, having heard from the American public, is going to realize that yes, while it is a divisive issue, that the net loss of changing the policy may be far greater than the net gain of changing the policy,” he told NBC News.

    Tyrrell’s ousting came a few months before California teen Ryan Andresen was denied his Eagle award because he is gay.

    Both cases made national headlines, roiling the BSA. Some critics pointed to declining membership numbers as a sign that families were being turned off over the issue. The controversy also prompted a few hundred Eagle Scouts to turn in their hard-earned regalia in protest of the ban, which the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in 2000.

    Zach Wahls, an Eagle Scout and son of a lesbian couple who started Scouts for Equality to campaign for gays to be included, said Wednesday's action by the board was "an abdication of responsibility."

    "Unfortunately, the BSA now has to answer to ... the hundreds of thousands of Scouts that had their hopes raised and then (subsequently) crushed by this announcement," he said. "It is disappointing, no doubt about it, no doubt about it."

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the BSA's decision on the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related:

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays 

    Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy

    2119 comments

    As a former scout, I say delay it forever...

    Show more
    Explore related topics: boy, america, gays, lesbian, policy, scouts, membership
  • 4
    Feb
    2013
    5:51pm, EST

    Boy Scouts councils to national HQ: Don't make hasty decision on gays

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    A coalition of Boy Scouts councils representing some 540,000 youth asked the national organization on Monday to hold off on determining whether to end the controversial policy banning gay Scouts and leaders, saying it was concerned about the executives’ fast pace on a decision that can’t be “undone.”

    The Boy Scouts of America's announcement last week that it may eliminate the exclusion of gays from membership at the national level, leaving the decision to its local units, has led to some soul-searching and a lot of questions among Scouting families and their chartering organizations. Some families have indicated they may leave if the ban is lifted, but many have welcomed a change they feel was long overdue.

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    The Scouts' began National Executive Board and Committee meetings on Monday, and a decision on the gay ban is expected Wednesday.

    The coalition of 33 Boy Scouts councils representing some 540,000 youth, or 20 percent of the organization’s 2.6 million active Scouts, has “united to express our concern about the pace at which such actions are being taken,” according to a statement posted on the website of the Utah-based Great Salt Lake Council.  “… we request that a final vote on this policy reversal be delayed to allow other stakeholder’s voices to be heard and a more thorough analysis of the impact on local councils.”

    The decision comes just seven months after the organization said it was sticking with the policy following a confidential two-year review of the disputed membership guidelines. That review was announced months after Jennifer Tyrrell was dismissed from her post as leader of her son’s Tiger Cubs den because she is a lesbian, and a few months before California teen Ryan Andresen was denied his Eagle award because he is gay.

    Both cases made national headlines for several weeks, roiling the private youth organization. Some critics pointed to declining membership numbers as a sign that families were being turned off over the issue.

    Tom Pennington / Getty Images

    Will Oliver, an Eagle Scout, Greg Bourke, a former Assistant Scoutmaster, Jennifer Tyrrell, a former Cub Scout den mother, and Eric Andresen, a former Scout leader, deliver boxes containing 1.4 million signatures urging the Boy Scouts of America to reverse the organization's ban on gay Scouts on February 4, 2013 in Irving, Texas.

    The coalition, though, said: “While we understand the urge to support those councils who feel that the current policies negatively impact their ability to remain viable we also think that equal support and consideration should be given to those councils whose ability to remain viable will be impacted by adopting the new policy.”

    It said the proposed policy “flies in direct contradiction” to the results of the two-year review and noted: “Time must be allowed for accurate polling data to be collected from stakeholders at all levels and all areas in an unbiased way. The voices of existing chartered partners and financial contributors must be heard alongside those of our volunteer leaders and the parents who entrust their children to us. This is a decision which cannot be ‘undone.’”

    'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays 

    The Great Salt Lake Council also said that it explicitly opposed any changes to the current membership policy without open discussion and deliberation with the various individuals who make up the organization.

    When asked for comment about the positions of the coalition and the Great Salt Lake Council, BSA spokesman Deron Smith said in an email: “We recognize, deeply respect and appreciate the sincere beliefs about this issue.”


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    Advocates on both sides of the issue have stepped up their campaigns ahead of the BSA's final decision: They’ve encouraged their backers to make their voices heard through a phone-in and email deluge, a conservative group, the Family Research Council, said that it and 41 other groups ran a newspaper ad on Monday asking the BSA not to change the policy, and some conservative religious groups have urged their supporters to join in prayer to ask the board not to accept gays.

    Tyrrell, of Bridgeport, Ohio, and Ryan Andresen’s father were among a group that delivered petitions to the Boy Scouts' headquarters in Texas on Monday bearing more than one million signatures calling for an end to the policy.

    “It’s crucial because they are in the middle of making this potentially historical decision,” Tyrrell, 33, a mother of four children, told NBC News after delivering four boxes filled with the petitions and additional comments to a Boy Scouts' representative. The group had heard the organization has been receiving “a lot of negative feedback” from religious groups and wanted to provide the petitions so the BSA could see that “there are many people that support this and want this.”

    “There are 1.4 million Americans that have signed petitions supporting the change in BSA policy,” said Andresen, 52, of Moraga, Calif. “That’s quite a statement. … that’s a lot of people supporting change.”

    Tyrrell and other advocates have previously delivered some of the petitions, which Smith said the BSA had accepted, too. “The BSA has received a great deal of feedback from a variety of viewpoints and we appreciate everyone sharing their perspective on this issue,” he wrote.

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    Andresen’s son, Ryan, 18, is still hoping he will receive Scouting’s highest ranking, the Eagle award, though the journey has done a lot of damage to him emotionally, said Eric Andresen, who resigned as the committee chair of his son’s troop after the problems began. One of the family’s main objectives was to help others, such as boys who may still be hiding in the closet.

    “I’m hoping that the board continues to do what’s right and deliberate this week and make the decision that we hope they’re going to make,” he said. “If they don’t, we’ll be back.”

    Related stories: 

    • Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy
    • Eagle Scouts return badges to protest policy banning gays
    • Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays 

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the possibility of a change in the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

     

    888 comments

    More unfortunately is those who still, in ignorance, choose to not just diminish, but denigrate, the lives of so many people in this world. I have never met a gay person who did not at some point in their life scream out to the universe, wondering what they'd done to be put into such a place.

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    Explore related topics: boy, america, salt, lake, gay, council, lesbian, policy, scouts, membership, eagle, tyrrell, andresen
  • 1
    Feb
    2013
    8:39am, EST

    'BATTLESTATIONS!': Call-in war waged over Boy Scouts' ban on gays

    /

    A statue in front of the National Scouting Museum in Irving, Texas, on Monday.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    “BATTLESTATIONS!” “The phones are ringing off the wall.” “Good turn for the day. (takes less than one minute).”

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    These are the battle cries made by advocates on both sides of the debate over allowing gays into the Boy Scouts. They are urging their supporters to call or email the private youth organization as it weighs lifting its longstanding, controversial ban, with a decision expected next week.

    The new policy, now under discussion, would revise the national organization’s rules to allow local sponsoring organizations to decide for themselves whether to admit gay scouts and leaders. If approved, the change could be announced as early as next week, after the Boy Scouts of America's national board holds a regularly scheduled meeting.

    On the Facebook page for George Takei, known for his role as Mr. Sulu in Star Trek, he urged those wanting to end the ban to hit their “BATTLESTATIONS!” and to “Takei Stand.” He gave supporters a step-by-step guide, telling them to call, say they were for the change, and then to like and share the message.  As of Thursday afternoon, more than 56,000 people had liked his status and 41,000 had shared it, while another 6,000 left comments.

    “Let's FLOOD their lines with thousands of calls. (Believe me, the other side's busy, too...),” he wrote.

    And indeed, they were. The Family Research Council, which supports maintaining the ban, noted in an appeal to its supporters on its website: “The phones are ringing off the wall.”

    “If you've tried to get through to the Boy Scouts of America (BSA), you know it's been tough. If you've wanted to express your concern about the BSA abandoning their longstanding policy of safeguarding Scouts by restricting openly homosexual Scout leaders from holding leadership positions, you may have been greeted by an endlessly ringing phone. This may be one instance in which the Boy Scouts were not prepared,” for what the council said was the response of thousands of Americans opposed to the change.

    It then listed the numbers for each of the BSA’s board members and provided a sample phone script for supporters to read. On the council’s Facebook page, a similar post had received nearly 3,900 likes and more than 2,800 shares plus 800 comments.

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    When a reporter called the BSA Wednesday night, a woman who answered the phone asked, “Are you for or against the proposed policy change?” When the reporter identified her news organization, the woman said the Scouts had been taking calls since about 3 p.m. Monday and it had been very busy.


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    “When we receive calls we are indeed allowing people to provide feedback, but it’s not a poll (and we won’t be releasing data about the feedback),” BSA spokesman Deron Smith said in an email, responding to an inquiry about the calls and when they began.

    On the organization's Facebook page, people were asked to provide feedback by email or to a phone number provided. Some who posted there asked about getting a running tally.

    But by Thursday afternoon, opponents of the ban reported that the BSA was no longer taking the phone feedback (Smith did not respond to an inquiry on whether the BSA had stopped). So the secondary tactic was deployed.

    “so inundated! recorded msg states system can no longer take calls! revolution by email it is,” wrote one poster, identified as Seattle Punk Rock Aerobics.

    Related stories: 

    • Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy
    • Eagle Scouts return badges to protest policy banning gays
    • Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays 

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the possibility of a change in the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age and Boy Scout affiliation.

    2462 comments

    Friendly reminder: Lord Baden-Powell who founded the Boy Scouts was himself gay.

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    Explore related topics: boy, gay, lesbian, policy, scouts, polic, membership
  • 28
    Jan
    2013
    7:21pm, EST

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    One decade ago, the US Supreme Court ruled the Scouts had the legal right to exclude gays, but the organization's new policy would allow local troops would be able to decide the issue for themselves. NBC's Pete Williams reports.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    Jennifer Tyrrell cried when she got the news Monday that the Boy Scouts of America may be changing its policy to admit gays and lesbians as Scouts and leaders.

    The mother of four children was kicked out of the private organization last year, as den leader of her son’s Tiger Cub pack in Ohio, because she is a lesbian. The longstanding policy has sometimes seen the quiet, or in Tyrrell’s case, public, exit of gays – an exodus that has rocked the Boy Scouts and led to growing calls for the group to open its doors to all who want to join.

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    “I’m looking forward to the day when we can once again take part,” Tyrrell told NBC News by phone, reminiscing about all of the fun activities she so enjoyed with her son Cruz and the youth in her pack, such as the Pinewood Derby and campfires. “This is a gigantic leap, especially on this … decades-old policy that they have gone to the Supreme Court to defend. … Of course it’s not the ultimate, but it’s definitely a great hurdle.”

    It’s not the ultimate, according to Tyrrell and others, because the proposal would eliminate the ban at the national level, but would allow local sponsoring organizations to decide whether or not they would accept gays, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported.

    Courtesy Jennifer Tyrrell

    Jennifer Tyrrell and her son Cruz. Tyrrell was ousted from her post as den leader of her son's Tiger Cub pack in April 2012 because she is gay.

    “So essentially, instead of forcing people to discriminate they’re going to allow people to discriminate,” said Zach Wahls, who is the son of a lesbian couple and who has been leading a campaign fighting to include lesbians and gays in the Scouts. “Even though one is less bad than the other, we still need to make sure that local units are understanding how a ban on gay members negatively affects their unit.”

    Still, Wahls said, it was a step in the right direction though the Boy Scouts do have a ways to go.

    “Compared to where we were seven months ago, with the BSA, you know, calling this the best policy for the organization right now and then seven months later understanding well actually … that’s not quite true, it’s a big development,” he added.

    Wahls was referring to the Boy Scouts announcement last July that it was sticking with the policy after revealing it had undertaken a confidential two-year review of the disputed membership guidelines. It also came a few months after Tyrrell was forced out and a day before she handed in a petition to national leaders with hundreds of thousands of signatures calling for her reinstatement.

    That prompted a number of Eagle Scouts to turn in their hard-earned regalia, with more than 200 posting their letters and photos of their medals, pins or certificates to a tumblr page started by Burke Stansbury, a 36-year-old communications specialist in Seattle, Wash., who decided to leave the Scouts for good over the issue.

    Stansbury welcomed the news of the proposed change but said he wasn’t sure if he would ever go back.

    One decade ago, the US Supreme Court ruled the Boy Scouts of America had the legal right to exclude gays, but the organization's new policy would allow local troops would be able to decide the issue for themselves. NBC's Pete Williams reports.

    “I sort of said all along that I was really making a decision to do this, that they’ve held on too long and that, you know, I’ve lost faith in the organization regardless of what changes they might make in the future,” he said.

    Stansbury said he would wait and see if the Boy Scouts ended up reversing the policy and if they “actively worked to be an open and inclusive organization.”

    The discussion of the potential change in policy is nearing its final stages, according to outside scouting supporters. If approved, the change could be announced as early as next week, after the BSA's national board holds a regularly scheduled meeting.

    “Before I made any decision about rejoining or asking for my medal back, I’d really want to see that it was being implemented but yeah … I am certainly open to seeing what happens and I mean, there is you know, much to love about the Boy Scouts as an organization,” he said. “So if they were to change, it would take some time, I think, to rebuild the trust of people like me who lost faith. But I think it’s still possible.”

    One of those most impacted recently by the Boy Scouts’ policy was Ryan Andresen, 18, and his family. Andresen said he was denied submitting his application for the Eagle rank to the national organization by his Scoutmaster after finishing his final service project last fall because he is gay, and after coming out as gay to his troop last summer.

    After much back and forth with the local council in Moraga, Calif., and hard feelings on both sides in a story that made national headlines for weeks, his application for the pinnacle Boy Scouts’ achievement was forwarded to the national headquarters for approval, said his father Eric Andresen, 52.

    John Makely / NBC News

    Ryan Andresen holds an Eagle Scout pin that was given to him by a fellow Scout who is gay on Friday, Oct. 12, 2012, in New York, N.Y.

    Ryan, a high school senior, was still hoping for the award, even though he already knows he has earned it, Eric Andresen said.

    “Four months ago, if the ban hadn’t been in place, we wouldn’t even been going down this road. … He’s been hurt a lot. There’s been a lot of damage done to Ryan emotionally,” he said Monday. “If the board does elect to get rid of the policy, I don’t know why they wouldn’t then retroactively award Ryan his Eagle. They certainly should.”


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    Eric Andresen, who resigned as the committee chair of his son’s troop after the problems began, said he was done with the organization after 10 years as an adult leader, but he hadn’t yet broached the possibility with his son of being able to participate as a volunteer or leader one day if the policy is changed.

    “I don’t think that’s a conversation that … I’d even want to start it with him right now,” he said, noting that after Ryan spent a dozen years with the Boy Scouts, the group “turned its back on him” and was “responsible for all of the grief he’s gone through the last four months.”

    One of the Andresen’s main objectives was to help others, such as boys who may still be hiding in the closet.

    “If BSA does do the right thing … we’re looking at, you know, what this is going to do for thousands of other Scouts so that nobody else has to go through what Ryan went through,” he said. “It’s time to end this stuff. Gay kids have a right to be Scouts, too.”

    Related: 
    Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy
    Eagle Scouts return badges to protest policy banning gays
    Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on whether the membership policy should be changed, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age and Boy Scout affiliation.

    628 comments

    I don't think it was right of the Boy Scouts to ban homosexuality and then never tell anyone about it or post it in their bylaws. If this private organization was upfront about its membership criteria, we could have avoided this whole twisted mess. As a male with a an active heterosexual appetite, I …

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  • 12
    Oct
    2012
    3:17pm, EDT

    Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy

    John Makely / NBC News

    Ryan Andresen, 18, of Moraga, Calif., in New York on Oct. 12. After completing the requirements for the Boy Scouts' top honor, the Eagle rank, he was denied the award because he is gay. The organization has a longstanding, controversial policy banning gay Scouts and leaders.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    NEW YORK -- On his 18th birthday, Ryan Andresen received a symbol of the Boy Scouts’ highest honor, which the national organization had denied him because he is gay: an Eagle Scout pin.

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    He got it on Monday from another Eagle Scout, Matthew Kimball, 30, who was also in his troop years ago and publicly came out as gay after learning about his fellow Scout’s plight.

    “I look at it; it just gives me hope,” Andresen, of Moraga, Calif., told NBC News on Friday during a visit to New York. “I see it as there’s people out there that support me and care about me and believe that I earned it. And it also shows me that things are happening, change is happening, there’s hope in the Boy Scouts to change this policy.”


    Andresen learned more than a week ago from his father, Eric, that the Scoutmaster of Troop 212 would not be signing off on his Eagle application even though he’d completed the requirements. The father said the Scoutmaster told him he was grappling with the conflict between Ryan’s sexual orientation and the policy set by the national organization that bans Gay Scouts and leaders.

    The Scoutmaster has not responded to emails or a phone call seeking comment. Andresen said he had found his father crying over the rejection, which he then explained to him.

    “It's not fair that gay people can’t go through it and can't get the recognition,” he said. "It’s especially not fair that people like me can go through the whole entire program, you know, do everything and get all the way to the Eagle award and at the very last minute be told they can’t get it. It's totally devastating, it’s terrible … that's bullying.”

    Andresen came out in July to his fellow Scouts in a letter that was focused on bullying in the troop. But he said his Scoutmaster knew before then that he was gay and had encouraged him to stick with the troop when he had thought about not pursuing his Eagle Scout rank.

    John Makely / NBC News

    Andresen shows an Eagle pin given to him by Matthew Kimball, a fellow member of his Troop 212. Kimball, 30, publicly came out as gay after learning that Andresen was denied his Eagle award because he is gay. Kimball has asked other Scouts to send in their pins for the teen.

    His final Eagle Scout project focused on bullying. Named the “tolerance wall,” it consists of 288 tiles depicting acts of kindness and is displayed at his middle school, where he says he endured name calling over his sexual orientation. He said he also was bullied in the Boy Scouts because he was gay.

    Speaking about the bullying brought his mom, Karen, to tears.

    “It's hard … when you're a mom and your kids are, you know, suffering in pain,” she said, adding that the Eagle Scout denial “was like the final straw because we were all in such shock about this decision. And I didn’t want Ryan to go down to a bad place again and be so depressed, and so I just had to step in and be his advocate.”

    Almost-Eagle Scout denied award because he is gay

    Gay Scouts come out, rally around teen's Eagle Scout bid
    Eagle Scouts return badges to protest policy banning gays
    Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays

    Gay mom upset after dismissal by Boy Scouts

    The Boy Scouts of America have a longstanding policy denying membership to gay leaders and Scouts, which they reaffirmed earlier this year after a two-year confidential review of the controversial ban.

    “While a majority of our membership agrees with our policy, we fully understand no single policy will accommodate the many diverse views among our membership or society,” BSA spokesman, Deron Smith, said in an email in August.

    The organization said last week in a statement that because of Andresen's sexual orientation and that he did not agree to Scouting’s principle of "Duty to God," “he is no longer eligible for membership in Scouting.”

    But the family has disputed that, saying the only reason Andresen was denied the rank is "because the Boy Scouts of America has a problem with Ryan being gay."

    Andresen has had his emotional ups and downs since he learned he wouldn’t get his Eagle, though is family is still appealing that decision and Karen Andresen started an online petition calling for him to get the award. He is also hurt that his Scoutmaster has not responded to a letter he wrote him.

    “He still won't talk to me and, it’s sad," he said. “He was a huge role model to me so it’s devastating. I really looked up to him.”

    View more videos at: http://nbcbayarea.com.

    Andresen said he has received some critical messages online that he was bullying the Scoutmaster.

    “I apologized that it looked that way and I said that this is not what I’m trying to do and I’m very against bullying,” he said. “I’m not targeting anyone. I love Boy Scouts. I love the boys in my troop and I really just want this policy to change.”

    To earn the Eagle rank, which is in its 100th year, Scouts must progress through five lower ranks, earn 21 merit badges and serve six months in a leadership position, among completing other tasks. More than two million young men have received the Eagle rank.

    Kimball, who started a campaign to collect Eagle regalia for Andresen, said he has gotten up to 170 pledges of pins. Scouts for Equality said last week that some 300 Eagle Scouts had returned their regalia to the Boy Scouts in protest since mid-July.

    But many other Eagle Scouts have said they agreed with the policy.


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    Brian Groenig, 36, of Lake Stevens, Wash., said he backs the BSA’s decision.

    “This is an organization that has set ‘their own’ standards and set ‘their own’ values. All those (who) want to join are only asked that they live by those standards and values.We’re not forcing it upon anyone … but it is a private organization that can choose what they will and will not accept,” Groenig, a charter organization representative with his troop, told NBC News in an email. “I find comfort in knowing there are organization that won’t bend and conform to the ‘social norm’ just because of peer pressure and political positioning.”

    A spokesman for the Boy Scouts of America, Deron Smith, said 50,000 Scouts earn the Eagle rank every year. He said in August that a “few” had returned their medals, badges or certificates since the membership policy announcement. On Tuesday, he said he didn’t have an update on numbers of regalia returned, but noted such items were either kept at the national office or stored in the National Scouting Museum.

    Andresen said he is looking forward to returning to high school and being out of the spotlight, though he knows this experience has changed the course of his life. He initially thought he would go into the family business after college, but now has some new ideas.

    “What if I could help people when I’m older and share my experiences?” he asked. “It's really just making me thing about all of that. … I don’t have a good idea of what I’m going to do going forward, but I definitely think this is going to be a part of it.”

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com.

     

     

     

    2159 comments

    Times are always changing and hatred will die along with the generations that created it. There's no room for Hatred, Bigotry and Racism in this country. Go to Pakistan if that's your belief.

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    Explore related topics: of, boy, america, gay, police, ryan, jennifer, petition, scouts, equality, membership, tyrrell, andresen
  • 18
    Jul
    2012
    11:44am, EDT

    Lesbian mom on Boy Scouts: We'll keep fighting anti-gay policy

    Courtesy of GLAAD

    Jennifer Tyrrell, right, addresses the media with her partner, Alicia, after delivering a petition to the Boy Scouts of America in Dallas, Tex., on Wednesday in which she calls for an end to the private group's policy banning gay Scouts and leaders.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    A woman who was ousted as the head of her son’s Tiger Cubs pack because she is a lesbian on Wednesday delivered a petition with more than 300,000 signatures to the Boy Scouts urging them to end their longstanding policy banning gay Scouts and leaders, saying the organization’s recent decision to stick with the controversial membership standards will not end her campaign.

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    Jennifer Tyrrell, a 32-year-old, stay-at-home mother of four, was removed from her post as den master in April because she is a lesbian. She has been fighting since then to get the Boy Scouts to change its longstanding policy, starting an online petition calling for the change.

    But on Tuesday, the private organization said it was keeping the ban on open or avowed homosexuals.

    "I feel like this isn’t going to deter me because I truly love Scouts and I truly ... want to see this change take place, and not just for myself, but for families and children everywhere who have flooded me with emails thanking me for having the courage to stand up because they actually, you know, couldn’t," she told NBC News just after handing over the petition and meeting with two Boy Scouts representatives at the private group's headquarters in Texas.

    MSNBC's Thomas Roberts talks to Zach Wahls, Eagle Scout and author of "My Two Moms," who petitioned the Boy Scouts to drop the policy banning gay Scouts and leaders that the organization recently decided it would keep.

     


    The three large boxes that Tyrrell gave to the group also contained comments from current and former Scouts and leaders who support ending the policy. Wearing her den master uniform, she was joined by two of her children and her partner, Alicia Burns.

    An Ohio woman who says she was ousted as a den leader by the Boy Scouts of America because she is gay. KXAS reporter Amanda Guerra has the story.

    The purpose of the meeting was not to discuss changing the policy, BSA spokesman Deron Smith said in an email to NBC News, but to listen and to receive the petition.

    “The Boy Scouts of America works to treats everyone with courtesy and respect," he said. "The discussion was mutually cordial and very respectful. The BSA values the freedom of everyone to express their opinion and believes to disagree does not mean to disrespect.”

    Tyrrell said the representatives were polite and professional during the 10-minute meeting, but that "they don't see any change in the future" on the policy. She said they were adamant that the right decision had been made in deciding to maintain the policy after a recent confidential review of it, but also said they were saddened by what happened to her though it was in line with their membership standards.

    "It was a very respectful meeting. I think it was productive. I think ... we were both willing to listen," she said, but "we disagree still."

    Two of Jennifer Tyrrell's children and her partner, Alicia, wait while Tyrrell speaks to the media after delivering more than 300,000 signatures to the Boy Scouts of America at the group's headquarters in Dallas, Tex., on Wednesday.

    She said she told them, "'Well, I guess I’ll see you in the future because we’re going to keep on meeting until we win.”

    The Boy Scouts said Tuesday that it began a confidential review of the policy in 2010, convening a diverse committee of 11 senior volunteers and professional leaders to review the membership standards after a resolution was put forward to reconsider them. The committee reached a "unanimous consensus" that it was the "best policy" for the BSA, Smith said. That conclusion was shared at a February board meeting and recently reviewed by the officers of the board.


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    “The vast majority of the parents of youth we serve value their right to address issues of same-sex orientation within their family, with spiritual advisers, and at the appropriate time and in the right setting,” Bob Mazzuca, chief scout executive of the Boy Scouts, said in a statement. “While a majority of our membership agrees with our policy, we fully understand that no single policy will accommodate the many diverse views among our membership or society.”

    The review was conducted confidentially "to allow the committee to make the best decision for the organization," Smith said.

    Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays
    Boy Scouts review controversial anti-gay policy
    Eagle Scout son of lesbian moms: Boy Scouts must end gay discrimination
    Gay mom upset after dismissal by Boy Scouts
    Boy Scouts board member opposes anti-gay policy

    Tyrrell said she asked the Boy Scouts if they could provide documentation about the review, but her request was declined.

    “I would actually like a little bit of proof backing up what they say,” she said before the meeting. “They think that all the Scout parents feel that this is a bad move, they don’t want to change the policy. They’ve never provided any proof saying that. I have proof. I have over 316,000 signatures on a petition,” plus comments from many “relaying the message this is why we want to see this policy changed.”

    “The discrimination with adults is bad enough, but you can’t be a gay Scout, either, so that’s … [a] dangerous message that you’re sending the kids, that they are not good enough, that they’re not accepted,” she added. “It’s just not fair to treat children that way and it’s not fair to tell parents that you can’t be involved in your child’s life. So, we’re not going to stop until every parent can participate in Scouts with their child.”

    In June, the Boy Scouts said it was considering another resolution proposed at the group's annual meeting the month before that also called for ending the policy. But the decision announced Tuesday means the Scouts’ board will take no more action on that resolution and had no plans to further review the issue, Smith said.

    The Boy Scouts’ policy became a focus of the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000, when the justices sided with the organization in a lawsuit involving a former assistant Scoutmaster who was gay, citing the protections of the First Amendment.

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    1491 comments

    Why do YOU have to be so intolerant of a private organizations rules? Where is YOUR tolerance for those who do not want homosexuality around their children. Just as I have to be tolerant of YOU in society it is not right that YOU force your way of life on me. Shall I force YOU to attend my church? S …

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    Explore related topics: of, boy, gay, american, cubs, lesbian, ban, policy, banning, tiger, scouts, membership, homosexuals

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