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  • 2
    Jun
    2013
    4:13pm, EDT

    Boy Scouts defy orders, wear uniforms in Utah gay pride parade

    Rick Bowmer / AP

    Members of the Mormons Building Bridges march during the Utah Gay Pride Parade Sunday, June 2, 2013, in Salt Lake City. Kenji Mikesell, second from right, is an 18-year-old Eagle Scout still active in his troop that is sponsored by the Mormon church. He decided to wear his uniform though an area Boy Scouts' official said Scouts and adults with the program were not permitted to do so. (AP Photo/Rick Bowmer)

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    Boy Scouts and adult volunteers wore their uniforms Sunday as they marched in Utah's gay pride parade — defying a leader of the youth organization who had said they couldn't do so under the organization's guidelines prohibiting advocating political or social positions.

    The Utah Pride Festival Parade came a little more than a week after national delegates of the Boy Scouts of America approved allowing gay youth to join, ending controversial membership guidelines that had in recent years dogged one of the nation's most popular organizations for children and teens.

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    "It just feels like the right thing to do," Kenji Mikesell, an 18-year-old Eagle Scout and high school senior still active with his troop, said before leaving for the parade in Salt Lake City in his uniform.

    "It's kind of a way of saying we want you here,” added Mikesell, who marched with Mormons Building Bridges and whose troop is chartered by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. “Scouting has been a very positive influence in my life, and I'd like to see more people take advantage of it now that the ban has been lifted.”

    Peter Brownstein, a Scoutmaster in Salt Lake City who helped organize the Boy Scouts participation in the march, said a few adults and youth marched at the front of the parade in uniform, including a Cub Scout, a Boy Scout and his stepdad, an Eagle Scout, who borrowed a uniform to wear, and an Asst. Scoutmaster.

    But a local leader of the Boy Scouts had said Friday that they were prohibited from doing so. 

    "We as a Scouting movement do not advocate any social or political position, so I reminded Mr. Brownstein that we do not wear uniforms at an event like this," said Rick Barnes, chief scout executive of the Great Salt Lake Council, which consists of more than 75,000 youth. "We do not, as Boy Scouts, show support for any social or political position. We're neutral. If he wants to attend the parade and others do that are Scouts or Scouters, they're welcome to do so as private citizens wearing whatever they want except their uniform.

    “That's our official position. It always has been, there's nothing new here," he added. "We just don't want people to use the Boy Scouts to advocate their positions."

    It wasn't clear what the consequences of wearing their uniforms would be. 

    In a statement, Deron Smith, a spokesman for the national headquarters of the Boy Scouts of America, said it was up to the local council to determine any punishment.

    "These individuals stated a personal opinion and do not represent Scouting," said Smith. "Scouting teaches young people that often in life one finds rules they don’t agree with, but a Scout is to be obedient. To simply disobey a rule because you disagree with it is not an example to set for youth. It is up to each council to determine how best to hold their leaders to the standards of Scouting.  We will support the Greater Salt Lake Area Council as they determine the appropriate response."

    Barnes said Sunday he had nothing to add to the statement from Smith. On Friday, he said he expected the group to comply, citing the part of the Scout Oath that says a Scout is trustworthy.

    Mikesell said he wasn't worried about any consequences. But Brownstein did not wear his uniform and instead opted for a T-shirt that carried the message of inclusive Scouting, with a rainbow square knot on it. His son, an Eagle Scout, and another Scout wore shirts promoting allowing gays in Scouting (LGBT adults are not allowed to join the program).

    Brownstein, 53, said it was a disappointment that he couldn't wear his uniform.

    "We're just trying to demonstrate that Scouts can be a part of all parts of society, all parts of life," he said before the parade. "While I am not wearing my uniform, other people will be. And this is not about me, this is about getting the message out to America" of "inclusiveness in Scouting, the need for equality."

    After the march, he noted: “It felt awesome to proudly represent an organization that is making progress towards change and acceptance … and slowly making progress on opening their organization to many more people who can benefit from the wonderful program."

    "And the progress forward will continue,” he added.

    Scouts for Equality, a group that campaigns for the LGBT community to be welcomed in Scouting, had said that members of the Boy Scouts have previously marched in pride parades elsewhere. But they called for youth and adults in the Utah Scouting program to abide by Barnes' call and not wear their formal uniforms in the parade.

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the change in the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related stories:

    • After vote allowing gay kids to become Boy Scouts, some families call it quits
    • Bittersweet victory for gay adults kicked out of Scouting
    • Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth

    1864 comments

    They made it easy to just throw them out now.

    Show more
    Explore related topics: boy, youth, gay, parade, utah, scouts, pride, uniform
  • Updated
    1
    Jun
    2013
    4:50pm, EDT

    Boy Scouts can't wear uniforms at gay pride parade, official says

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    Boy Scouts and adult volunteers planning to wear their uniforms in Utah's upcoming LGBT pride parade aren't allowed to do so under the organization's guidelines prohibiting advocating political or social positions, a leader with the program said Friday.

    Rick Barnes, chief scout executive of the Great Salt Lake Council, said he learned of the plans for Sunday's parade from a Scoutmaster, Peter Brownstein, organizing for Scouts and adults working with the Boy Scouts of America. 

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    "We as a Scouting movement do not advocate any social or political position, so I reminded Mr. Brownstein that we do not wear uniforms at an event like this," Barnes said. "We do not, as Boy Scouts, show support for any social or political position. We're neutral. If he wants to attend the parade and others do that are Scouts or Scouters, they're welcome to do so as private citizens wearing whatever they want except their uniform."

    "That's our official position. It always has been, there's nothing new here," he added. "We just don't want people to use the Boy Scouts to advocate their positions."


    Brownstein, 53, and a machinery appraiser in Salt Lake City, was just starting to organize for the Utah Pride Parade to be held in Salt Lake City after last week's historic vote by the Boy Scouts of America to allow openly gay youth to join the program. He was organizing under the banner of Scouts for Equality, a group that campaigns for the LGBT community to be welcomed in Scouting. 

    "I am asking everyone to wear their Scout uniforms," Brownstein, whose son recently earned the BSA's highest honor -- the Eagle rank -- said before receiving the notice from the scout executive. "The message we want to send is that Scouting should be open to everyone and it's a wonderful program and everyone deserves to be included and have the benefits of the program."

    After learning of the uniform decision, he said later Saturday: "Our current plan is to, out of respect for Rick as an individual, we will follow his request and I will not march in uniform.

    "Others may choose differently," he added, noting he was aware of a father and son who planned to wear their uniforms.

    It's unclear how many Boy Scouts and adults with the program will participate. One of them, Kenji Mikesell, an 18-year-old Eagle Scout in Salt Lake City, said he would wear his uniform despite Barnes asking them not to.

    Mikesell said he felt it would be a "welcoming" for "gay kids getting involved in Scouting."

    "Kind of like 'we want you here' type of thing," he said. "And also as sort of a sense of pride. I'm glad the ban was lifted. I wish it was lifted for leaders but this is a first step in the right direction."

    Later Saturday, Scouts for Equality issued a statement asking supporters not to wear their uniforms.

    "We at Scouts for Equality are very happy to see the continued interest and actions taken by our incredible base of supporters nationwide. However, in light of the recent request made by BSA officials to not appear in formal Class A uniform, we would hope that our supporters honor it and respectfully show your support for equality in non-formal attire," said Brad Hankins, national campaign director. 

    "Further, SFE approaches each officially endorsed event independently, and would never seek to introduce adult themes or imagery into a youth program, even if purely by accident. Therefore, we ask our supporters to use caution when promoting inclusivity in the BSA at events where adult themes and imagery are present," he added.

    When asked about the consequences of wearing the uniform, Barnes, the Scout executive, said: "The first point of the Scout law is a Scout is trustworthy. Once they've been told our policy, we expect them to be a good Scout and be trustworthy."

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the change in the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related stories:

    • After vote allowing gay kids to become Boy Scouts, some families call it quits
    • Bittersweet victory for gay adults kicked out of Scouting
    • Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth

     

    This story was originally published on Sat Jun 1, 2013 1:02 AM EDT

    1101 comments

    I am one of the most vocal gay rights people on this site - I agree they should not wear the uniform at the parade. There is no reason to. One of the reasons why I was so bothered by the BSA recent history (since 1978) of banning gays is because the scouts should remain neutral on these issues.

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    Explore related topics: of, boy, america, city, salt, lake, gay, parade, lesbian, update, utah, scouts, pride, lgbt, updated
  • 31
    May
    2013
    4:36am, EDT

    After vote allowing gay kids to become Boy Scouts, some families call it quits

    Dan Koeck / for NBC News

    Aaron Butler said that after he told his 8-year-old son Evan that they were leaving the Scouts, "he sat on my lap and cried for 10 minutes."

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    The father of a Cub Scout sat his son on his lap late last week and told him news that tore up both their hearts: The family was leaving the Boy Scouts.

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    Aaron Butler, the leader of his 8-year-old son Evan’s Cub Scout Wolf den in Roseau, Minn., said he didn't explain to his eldest son exactly why they were walking away from an organization they loved so much, but he told NBC News that it was because of last week's controversial decision by the Boy Scouts of America to allow gay youth to participate.

    “It was a big disappointment ... he cried for about 10 minutes because I told him that the Boy Scouts were not honoring their own law," Butler said, referring to the BSA oath that he interpreted as barring gay people. "They say it -- 'On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep [myself] physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight,'” he said.

    “If the BSA cannot honor their own law, then how can I stay with an organization that just does not care anymore?” he said.

    As many Scouts and families rejoiced over the BSA's decision to partly end the membership guidelines that had drawn criticism from supporters of LGBT rights both inside and outside the organization, many others decried the move, with some BSA members making  the tough choice to pull out of one of the nation's most popular youth organizations.

    “I feel pretty bad about it,” Evan told NBC News, noting he liked the camp-outs, and archery and slingshot activities he enjoyed in Pack 56. He said that he understood there was a vote that led to his parents’ decision. He explained that he understood it as: “It was between honor and God, and not honoring God. And [not] honoring God got more votes.” 

    “It was something that we all enjoyed, we loved every week of it,” said Butler, 30, who works at a window and door manufacturer. “It's a shame that BSA had just caved like a deck of cards.” 

    Caved, Butler said, to pressure from activists to let gay youth join the group. The vote was approved by 61 percent of the 1,232 National Council delegates who cast a ballot at the BSA's annual meeting one week ago (another 168 delegates -- or about 12 percent of the total delegates -- were not present to cast a ballot). 

    “There were divisions about how to serve kids,” Tico Perez, the BSA national commissioner, said immediately after the vote. “If we have disagreement, if we have discomfort, we are going to talk through it. America needs Scouting.”

    “Our singular focus moving forward is serving more kids in Scouting, and we believe this resolution is going to do that,” he added.

    When asked about families saying they would leave over the decision, BSA President Wayne Perry said last week: “We think that on reflection that many of these people will decide that the best place for their kids is in Scouting.”

    A week on, BSA spokesman Deron Smith said the group couldn't yet quantify the impact of the amended policy. Most organizations that charter Scouting units were continuing with the program, but some had decided not to renew – in which case BSA executives would work with troop leadership to identify a suitable partner and ensure a smooth transition, he said.

    “Our local council professionals and volunteers are reaching out to our all chartered partners to review the policy and answer questions they have,” he wrote in an email. “We are finding that when people read the new policy they see it is reflective of the beliefs of most of Scouting’s major religious chartered organizations.”

    Not so for Mike A. Miller, a union electrician in Mount Holly, N.C., who said he was pulling his 9-year-old son, Cody, out of the Cub Scouts and would step down as assistant den leader of Pack 45. Monday will be his son's advancement ceremony to Webelos – as far as he will go with the organization.

    He said he talked to Cody before the vote – after it was announced in February – so it wouldn't be a one-time conversation.

    “It was hard to explain to a 9-year-old the complexities of why I was telling him that we had to quit,” Miller said. “He told me, 'Daddy, it should be like church. Everybody should be welcome.'”

    Miller said he then told Cody that the point of going to church is to seek forgiveness — not for being all-inclusive.

    “I said, 'These people aren’t asking for your forgiveness,'” Miller, 51, told NBC News in a telephone interview. “What they're doing is saying, 'this is what I am and you have to accept me like I am. I'm not coming to try to change.'

    "Be it right, wrong or indifferent, the Bible that I read says [homosexuality is] a sin,” he said.

    Miller said he and other families that would leave were talking about continuing some kind of program for the boys. He said he was going to look into an alternative faith-based group being put together by On My Honor — an organization started by a Florida dad and Scout volunteer, and composed of families and outside groups that oppose allowing gay youths and adults in the Boy Scouts. 

    As for adult leaders and volunteers, Boy Scouts officials last week said there would be no change to the adult membership policy, which excludes gays.

    That means that after a boy turns 18, he would graduate from the Boy Scouts and have to apply to become an adult leader – when the membership policy barring gays would apply.

    Gay rights activists pledged to continue their campaign to include adults even as they applauded the vote. They acknowledged there could be some attrition, but said the decision was the first step in the right direction for the organization.

    “Even though I think that there will probably still be a few folks who choose to walk away … I think this is the beginning of the rebound of Scouting in America,” Zach Wahls, founder of Scouts for Equality, said after the vote.

    Back in Roseau, Aaron Butler lamented that his sons – he has a younger boy, 6-year-old Emmett – would not achieve the Boy Scouts' highest honor of being an Eagle Scout and all of the recognition that comes with it.

    He said he had prayed weekly that the BSA “would stay straight.” Now that the vote has come and gone, he and another den leader would plot the next activity for the boys, “because we have to fill that vacuum with something good.”

    “The Boy Scouts gave us a sense of pride. They have done so much for all these kids … they have made a lot of these kids full of integrity and that’s what they teach – they did teach,” he said.

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the change in the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related stories:

    • Bittersweet victory for gay adults kicked out of Scouting
    • Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth

     

    6311 comments

    There have been and there always will be gay people, they are not not monsters nor child molesters, they are among us and many hide their preference to avoid being discriminated against. It is a shame that parents teach their children bigotry and hated. I had two gay cousins, they were both nice, on …

    Show more
    Explore related topics: gay, boy-scouts, scouts, cub-scouts, featured
  • 26
    Apr
    2013
    8:58am, EDT

    Mormon church OK with ending Boy Scouts' ban on gay youth

    Richard W. Rodriguez/AP file

    Boy Scouts hold signs at the "Save Our Scouts" prayer vigil and rally in front of the Boy Scouts of America' national headquarters in Irving, Texas, on Feb. 6, 2013.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has given tacit approval to the Boy Scouts’ proposal to allow gay youth to join, saying they “appreciate the positive things” included in the plan to end the organization's controversial ban on gay boys.

    The Boy Scouts of America last week proposed allowing gay youth – but not adults – to participate in the private youth organization. That came two months after they floated the idea of allowing gays and lesbians of all ages to join, a proposal that was denounced by the conservative religious groups that make up a bulk of Scouting.

    “We are grateful to BSA for their careful consideration of these issues. We appreciate the positive things contained in this current proposal that will help build and strengthen the moral character and leadership skills of youth as we work together in the future,” the LDS church said Thursday in a statement posted to their website.

    “The current BSA proposal constructively addresses a number of important issues that have been part of the ongoing dialogue, including consistent standards for all BSA partners, recognition that Scouting exists to serve and benefit youth rather than Scout leaders, a single standard of moral purity for youth in the program, and a renewed emphasis for Scouts to honor their duty to God."

    The Mormon church tops the list of membership enrollment numbers, with 431,000 youths participating in LDS-sponsored units as of Dec. 31, 2012. That was followed by the United Methodist Church at 364,000 and the Catholic Church at 274,000. More than 70 percent of Scouting units are chartered to faith-based groups.

    The Boy Scouts said Thursday in a statement that it was pleased the LDS church was “satisfied that the BSA has made a thoughtful, good-faith effort to address this issue.”

    “For nearly 100 years we have worked together with the mutual goal of building the moral character and leadership skills of youth. We believe kids are better off when they are in Scouting, and the program is successful because of its relationships with valued chartered organizations like the Church,” the statement said.

    The Boy Scouts’ policy has increasingly been a sore spot for the organization over the last year, following the dismissal of a den leader because she is a lesbian and the denial of the Eagle Scout rank to a California teen because he is gay.

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    The BSA’s National Council will vote on changing the membership policy on May 23. Its biannual “The Voice of the Scout Survey,” conducted earlier this year, for the first time included questions on gay membership.

    Among the 280 administrative local councils, half recommended no change, 38 percent recommended a change and 14 percent took a neutral position, the Scouts said.

    "While perspectives and opinions vary significantly, parents, adults in the Scouting community and teens alike tend to agree that youth should not be denied the benefits of Scouting," the organization said last week in a statement.

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the BSA's proposed change to the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    468 comments

    This is BS. Gays can make excellent and are excellent leaders as well, they are toughened by the harshness of being rejected by society and are usually people-smarter for it.

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    Explore related topics: of, national, boy, youth, america, police, gays, council, vote, may, scouts, lesbians, membership, tyrrell, andresen
  • 13
    Mar
    2013
    12:51pm, EDT

    Can a gay Boy Scout share a tent with another boy? Boy Scouts survey members on anti-gay policy

    Darrell Byers / Reuters file

    Robin O'Neal holds a sign during a prayer vigil at the Boy Scouts of America headquarters in Irving, Texas, on Feb. 6. The Boy Scouts of America have delayed until May a vote on whether to end a controversial ban on gay members.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    “Bob is 15 years old, and the only openly gay Scout in a Boy Scout troop. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the troop leader to allow Bob to tent with a heterosexual boy on an overnight camping trip?”

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    “Tom started in the program as a Tiger Cub, and finished every requirement for the Eagle Scout Award at 16 years of age. At his board of review Tom reveals that he is gay. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the review board to deny his Eagle Scout award based on that admission?” 

    These are some of the questions on a survey being conducted by the Boy Scouts of America as the private youth organization prepares to decide whether it should end its controversial policy banning gay Scouts and leaders. The Boy Scouts intends to make a decision in late May on the ban, which has roiled the organization in recent years.

    More than 1.4 million surveys have been emailed to registered volunteers, parents of Scouts and alumni. The questionnaires were part of a biannual survey, “The Voice of the Scout Survey,” that the BSA conducts of leaders, parents and youth over 14 years old. But this time, the BSA used the survey to add questions about the policy banning gays (those questions went only to adults).


    BSA spokesman Deron Smith, who provided the questions on the survey to NBC News, said in an email that “the BSA is committed to dialogue on the topic of its membership standards policy, within the Scouting family at the local and national levels.” The group was in the listening phase, which included the survey of key stakeholders, he added. 

    The Boy Scouts’ policy has increasingly been a sore spot for the organization over the last year, following the dismissal of a den leader because she is a lesbian and the denial of the Eagle Scout rank to a California teen because he is gay. Some of the questions on the survey provide similar scenarios and ask respondents how acceptable or unacceptable these situations are.

    Tristam Harrington

    Tristam Harrington, an assistant district commissioner of the Water and Woods Field Service Council in Michigan, provided a screenshot of the survey, which he completed Wednesday morning.

    When the BSA announced in late January that it may ditch the national policy and instead let local sponsoring organizations decide if gays can join, the organization received a flood of responses from both sides. It then decided to push a decision to May, when some 1,400 members of Scouting's National Council will vote on a resolution the Boy Scouts' officers are crafting on the policy. The survey results will be shared with those officers, Smith said.

    Tristam Harrington, an assistant district commissioner for the Scouts in Okemos, Mich., who opposes changing the policy, said he thought the BSA had done a good job with the survey.


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    The members “have the right to have their say and I think it’s better for them to understand exactly where their membership stands,” he said Wednesday. “Are you just assuming it needs to change or is this really a groundswell from within the organization? Is this an outside influence? A combination of both? … You don’t really know unless you ask, and I think it’s fabulous that they’re actually, you know, taking the time to now ask.”

    Steve Gates, Scoutmaster of Troop 98 in Taos, N.M., who supports changing the policy, agreed with Harrington.

     “They come at it from all sides and I think that’s good. I don’t see it as any kind of a biased survey,” he said.

    But he added that some of the questions may rile up some members opposed to the change who could perceive talk on the issue in the survey as having validated homosexuality.

    The survey was developed by a third-party research provider, North Star Opinion Research, with input from volunteer and professionals representing diverse viewpoints, Smith said. The Boy Scouts have asked for the surveys to be returned by April 4.

    The BSA also asked if the currently policy was a “core value” of Scouting and if respondents would leave the BSA if a decision was made that disagreed with their view.

    Other questions on the survey include:

    • A gay male troop leader, along with another adult leader, is taking a group of boys on a camping trip following the youth protection guidelines of two-deep leadership. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the gay adult leader to take adolescent boys on an overnight camping trip?
    • A troop is chartered by an organization that does not believe homosexuality is wrong and allows gays to be ministers. The youth minister traditionally serves as the Scoutmaster for the troop. The congregation hires a youth minister who is gay. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for this youth minister to serve as the Scoutmaster? 
    • Johnny, a first grade boy, has joined Tiger Cubs with his friends. Johnny’s friends and their parents unanimously nominate Johnny’s mom, who is known by them to be lesbian, to be the den leader. Johnny’s pack is chartered to a church where the doctrine of that faith does not teach that homosexuality is wrong. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for his mother to serve as a den leader for his Cub Scout den?
    • David, a Boy Scout, believes that homosexuality is wrong. His troop is chartered to a church where the doctrine of that faith also teaches that homosexuality is wrong. Steve, an openly gay youth, applies to be a member in the troop and is denied membership. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for this troop to deny Steve membership in their troop?

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the BSA's decision on the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related stories: 

    Boy Scouts: We need more time for decision on gay Scouts

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays 

    'BATTLESTATIONS!': Call-in war waged over Boy Scouts' ban on gays


    1996 comments

    I can speak from experience. I had a homosexual kid in my troop when I was in boy scouts back in the early 90's when in the ages 9 -12. He was in the closet at the time and later came out in High School. It was no big deal. I didn't care. He didn't care. I was never uncomfortable around him.

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    Explore related topics: gay, lesbian, boy-scouts, homosexual, scouts, featured, scouting
  • 21
    Feb
    2013
    1:09pm, EST

    Bill targeting Boy Scouts' tax exempt status draws criticism

    Darrell Byers/Reuters file

    Scouts attend a prayer vigil at the Boy Scouts of America headquarters in Irving, Texas, on Feb. 6, 2013, while a decision to change the membership policy banning gays was being deliberated. The BSA decided to postpone that decision until May.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    A proposed law in California to remove a state tax exemption for youth groups like the Boy Scouts that don’t allow gay members would set a dangerous precedent, according to an association of nonprofits.

    The legislation, introduced by Democratic State Sen. Ricardo Lara on Tuesday, would deny exemptions from state corporate taxes and taxes on items such groups sell. It would also require them to pay corporate taxes on donations and other forms of income.

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    Lara and LGBT advocacy group, Equality California, said the bill was aimed at groups like the Boy Scouts of America, which has faced increasing protests over its longstanding policy banning gay Scouts and leaders. An expert said she believed it was the first time such a law had been proposed, though it follows the loss of corporate sponsorship dollars to the BSA due to the policy.

    The California Association of Nonprofits, which has 1,500 member organizations, said it opposed the legislation in its current form, even though the group opposes discrimination based upon sexual orientation or gender identity as outlined in the bill, SB 323.

    “ … we are against using the tax exemption as a way to compel change in a nonprofit's policies,” Kris Lev-Twombly, the group’s director of public policy, wrote late Wednesday in an email. “Stripping nonprofits of tax exemption on ideological grounds is a slippery slope. Nonprofits are the embodiments of free speech in our society. When we disagree with a nonprofit's policies, we should vote by moving our donation dollars and our volunteer feet elsewhere.”

    The association said it is difficult to estimate how many of California's 50,000 nonprofits could be impacted because there is no reliable data on how many discriminate based upon sexual orientation. 

    “To lose state tax exemption in California could be significant for a nonprofit organization,” he said. “The bill is narrow in the sense that the provision applies specifically to youth organizations, but the question is how many organizations in California might be found to discriminate as outlined in the bill.”

    The law would require two-thirds approval of both houses of the state legislature to win approval. Lara said the state already bans discrimination based on sexual orientation in public accommodations and government programs.

    “Our state values the important role that youth groups play in the empowerment of our next generation; this is demonstrated by rewarding organizations with tax exemptions supported financially by all Californians,” he said in a statement. “SB 323 seeks to end the unfortunate discriminatory and outdated practices by certain youth groups by revoking their tax exemption privilege should they not comply with our non-discrimination laws.”

    The Boy Scouts of America declined to comment on the legislation, which comes about two weeks after it postponed a decision on whether to end the policy at the national level and leave local sponsoring organizations free to decide for themselves whether to admit gay Scouts.

    The BSA, a private youth organization, said it had received an outpouring of feedback on the membership guidelines after the potential change was announced in late January, and that it would take action on the issue at its national meeting in May.

    Boy Scouts: We need more time for decision on gay membership


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    More than two-thirds of Scouting groups are affiliated with religious bodies. Among the top religious sponsors, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have called for more time to discuss the issue, while the Southern Baptists on Tuesday passed a resolution rejecting the proposed change, according to the Baptist Press.

    Pat Read, an independent consultant for nonprofits and foundations nationwide, said she believed such legislation was a first. However, she said there was a precedent, noting a 1983 Supreme Court case in which the IRS said it would no longer provide tax exempt status to private schools that practiced racial discrimination – a fight the federal tax agency won.

    Read said the bill would have a financial impact and could potentially deter people from making donations.

    “When the federal government or a state government stands up and says that this nonprofit is not a good nonprofit because of some policy it has adopted, it affects the ability of people to support that group, it affects how much money it has available to support its programs versus paying taxes, and it affects public opinion about the value of its work,” she said by phone from Boulder, Colo. “And all three things are important and all three things are at stake in this legislation.”

    She said this legislation could wind up in court if it is approved, noting private organizations would likely object and say, "you have no right to try to tell us what to do.”

    “Some of them will be saying, you know, 'well tough we don’t need the tax exemption,'” she added. “But there will be a price to be paid for that.”

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the BSA's decision on the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related:

    'Nasty internal fight' or 'strategic pause': Boy Scouts supporters weigh delay on gays

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays 

    Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy

    720 comments

    I don't agree with this legislation.

    Show more
    Explore related topics: tax, boy, america, california, gays, lesbian, decision, status, policy, postponed, may, scouts, membership, exempt
  • 8
    Feb
    2013
    9:05am, EST

    'Nasty internal fight' or 'strategic pause': Boy Scouts supporters weigh delay on gays

    Darrell Byers / Reuters

    A crowd of Scouts, parents and supporters gather during a prayer vigil at the Boy Scouts of America headquarters in Irving, Texas, February 6, 2013.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    Since the Boy Scouts of America announced last week that it may end its ban on gay Scouts and leaders, NBC News has received hundreds of emails from Scoutmasters, parents, Scouts and various church representatives sounding off on the issue. Some rejected lifting the exclusion of gays, others welcomed it and yet others called for more time to deliberate on the matter.

    When the BSA said Wednesday that it would take more time to decide the issue, holding a vote on it in May, NBC received more email, as passionate as always, on one of America's most popular private youth organizations. A selection of the reader responses is included below:

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    “I am grateful that the Boy Scouts Executive Board had decided to take time to more carefully consider the future of the BSA and to facilitate a discussion with the National Council in May. I am still greatly concerned that an unyielding outside group is determined to force their views not only on BSA National but to bully their opinions over my and many other BSA chartering organizations 1st Amendment rights. The single minded agenda to have Scouting conform to their view or destroy it even when churches like mine have been very active in building, supporting and sustaining Scouting for 100 years is more than frustrating and feels more like I’m being persecuted for my beliefs. It is my hope that peace will be restored and that a different ‘Scouting’ organization can be organized so the Scouting program I have been part of for 14 years and has contributed so much good to this country can continue.”

    -- Tristam Harrington, 50, Okemos, Mich. He is involved in Scouting through The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

    Courtesy of Nate Harrington

    Tristam Harrington and his son, Nate, when he received his Life Scout rank in 2009.

    “In the Scout Oath, every Scout promises to act with integrity -- that's what it means to be ‘morally straight.’ The Boy Scouts of America has a similar obligation to stay true to itself and its mission to help boys become honorable men. Although I think the compromise they suggested is a reasonable one, I don't begrudge BSA National taking extra time to make sure they are doing the right thing for Scouting.”

    -- Karen Harrington, 54, wife of Tristam. Their son is an Eagle Scout

    “Calming words from our council exec notwithstanding, this is already starting to look like a good old bare knuckles bar room brawl. In their attempt to appear reasonable, and attempt to dodge the bullet, our national executive board didn't realize they had opened Pandora's box.  To put it mildly, this will put a serious strain on the institution. At worst, it will tear it so badly it may be the end of it … People think Boy Scouting, at only 2.7 million Scouts, somehow will continue to hold the mantle of our nation's boy-led, character building, outdoor loving, you name it, youth organization. At some point, the need for same will simply overtake the current institution, as a new one grows and ends up totally eclipsing them. Heaven help BSA if it validates the current policy in May. That'll be the end of 'Boy Scouts', at least until their new competitor drives them into bankruptcy and then quite possibly assumes the name again … They could have avoided this nasty internal fight, already taking place all the way down to the unit level, simply by making a principled stand for the future of Scouting.  Alas, their courage escaped them.”

    -- Steve Gates, Taos, N.M., Scoutmaster Troop 98

     

    Jim Grace Photography

    Steve Gates, Scoutmaster of Troop 98 in Taos, N.M., rowing a cataraft on a Scout trip.

    “The strategic pause just announced by the National Committee is absolutely the right thing to do. Many of us volunteers were caught off guard by the sudden announcement of a vote on an issue this important to the core organization. Something of this significant a change calls for careful reflection and a thorough discussion with the membership and the chartering organizations … If the scouts were to lift the ban and incorporate this change, it should be done because it is the right thing to do.  The core lesson we teach the youth in the Scouting program is that there is a creator, that the creator put us on the planet for a purpose, and that there is a moral compass that we should utilize to govern our lives.  That moral compass is more important than money or peer pressure.  I would strongly suggest that that moral compass should be applied to this forth-coming discussion and decision. If we make any changes to the core values of Scouting because of head-count pressure or corporate donors, than we are making this change for the wrong reasons. And we will have invalidated the message I have been espousing for ten years … We need to allow everyone the opportunity to participate.”

    -- Terry Burke, 54, Collinsville, Ill., Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop 1048

    “I for one am excited and happy that the gay issue with BSA has been tabled, and the scouts are safe once again, for now. I do not nor will I accept a gay leader to lead and mentor my son, anywhere. Young boys minds are very impressionable. I'm not saying that gays would touch my son physically, but could effect him mentally. The family unit is being trodden down and torn apart … I say no, a Big no. Our scout (11 yrs old) will be receiving his Arrow of Light very soon, and leaving Cub Scouts in a few weeks to go into Boy Scouts. If gays are let in, he will NOT be continuing on in his Scouting, which is sad indeed. I'm sorry about the gays missing out on Scouting, but they knew what the standards where when they joined, Morally straight! This will destroy Scouting if it is allowed, soon they will want to make lots of changes, like taking God out too. Gay is gay and straight is straight. Enough is enough.


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    -- Linda Bergener, 60, Havelock, N.C., parent of a Scout

    “My wife and I discussed this last night and we are both in continued disbelief that a decision on sanctioning discrimination ‘would require more discussion for all in Scouting.’ With that said, he (8-year-old son) is going to finish out the school year (in the Boy Scouts) and then we will reassess. I don’t think either of us feel particularly good about it or the organization as a whole, but having the discussion with our son in light of inaction on the part of the Scouts is a bit more abstract than if there had been a decision to point to. It feels like a cop-out and we are both very conflicted, but we aren’t going to do anything at this time.”

    -- Zach Conen, Radnor, Penn. His son is in Wolf Den Pack 19. He has been considering removing his son over the ban.

    “I earned my Eagle Scout award when I was 13 years old, though I was not openly gay at the time. I was also a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which you know is one of the largest religious supporters of BSA. … I am in full support of the change to allow gay members into the Boy Scouts of America, and I am quite disappointed that it is taking BSA and the LDS Church this long to realize their foolish policies. Whether they like it or not, BSA is full of gays though they may not be 'out', so their fears of boys being attracted to other boys and leaders to leaders etc., doesn't make much sense seeing that it is happening already.”

    -- Tristan Schulthies, 22, student at Southern Virginia University

    “The last line in the Boy Scout Oath says that Scouts will do their best to keep themselves morally straight.  The left-leaning liberals in this world are tearing at the very moral fibers that have held this country together for nearly 250 years. Our elected leaders of late have bowed to those liberal pressures, allowing same-sex marriages and equal benefits for gays and lesbians. Morally, it’s not right and not what God intended for us. I applaud the Boy Scouts for resisting the pressure to allow gays into the program up until now.  I hope, not only for the future of the Boy Scouts, but for the future of this country, that the ban is upheld. It’s time that someone shows some backbone and agrees with that last line of the Scout Oath, to keep the organization morally straight. Otherwise, they need to drop that part out of the Scout Oath since they will no longer be supporting a morally straight organization. That’s when I, as well as many other volunteer leaders, will also drop out.”

    -- Stuart Lewis, 61, Knoxville, Tenn., Assistant Scoutmaster of Troop 15 in the Toqua District

    “I write to you today to discuss my feelings on the National Council's decision to postpone their vote. In a word I am, devastated. The attention that is being brought to this organization, of which I've spent the last 16 years of my life in, is in no way beneficial to the youth involved. I have been a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, a Troop leader, and a camp counselor. Yet in all of that time the subject of sexual orientation has never come up. The sexual orientation of a child, or of an adult doesn't impact their ability to teach knots, or their desire to learn outdoor skills. I am ashamed to be associated with this organization. As a child in the program my leaders taught me acceptance and tolerance, The Scout law says friendly, not homophobic or hateful. I saw other Scouts who I went to school with leading double lives. They'd be with their boyfriends at school and then at Scouts that night, telling stories of their dates that weekend but being careful to make sure all the ‘he's’ came out as ‘she's’. I have gay friends and gay co-workers who I'm embarrassed to be around. It's awful to think that because I wanted to go camping as a child, I must bear title of homophobe. I believe that the National Council is on the wrong side of history. This discussion will be looked back at the same way we look at the pictures taken outside of the University of Alabama in 1963, or of those showing segregated water fountains.”

    -- Andrew Coleman, 22, Eagle Scout, Fitchburg, Mass.

    Related:

    Boy Scouts on edge as they await decision on gays

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays 

    'BATTLESTATIONS!': Call-in war waged over Boy Scouts' ban on gays

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the BSA's decision on the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    1620 comments

    They stand to lose more members than they would gain if they allow gays to join. Let the gays start their own boys club. Then everyone is happy.

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  • 6
    Feb
    2013
    12:48pm, EST

    Boy Scouts: We need more time for decision on gay membership

    Jacquelyn Martin / AP

    Scout Pascal Tessier, 16, center left, and his Eagle Scout brother Lucien Tessier, 20 - both gay - seen here with their parents, Oliver Tessier, left, and Tracie Felker, at their home in Kensington, Md.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    Published at 11:43 a.m. ET: The Boy Scouts of America said Wednesday it needed "time for a more deliberate review" of its policy banning gay Scouts and leaders, delaying a final decision on the controversial membership guidelines that have dogged the private youth organization in recent years.

    "In the past two weeks, Scouting has received an outpouring of feedback from the American public. It reinforces how deeply people care about Scouting and how passionate they are about the organization," the BSA said in a statement.


    "After careful consideration and extensive dialogue within the Scouting family, along with comments from those outside the organization, the volunteer officers of the Boy Scouts of America’s National Executive Board concluded that due to the complexity of this issue, the organization needs time for a more deliberate review of its membership policy."

    The roughly 1,400 voting members of Scouting's national council will take action on the resolution at the national meeting in May 2013, the organization said.

    The BSA said last week it was considering changing the policy, leaving local sponsoring organizations free to decide for themselves whether to admit gay Scouts.

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    That announcement came just seven months after the BSA said it was sticking with its ban following a confidential two-year review and spurred advocates on both sides of the issue to step up their campaigns: They’d encouraged their backers to make their voices heard through a phone-in and email deluge.

    A conservative group, the Family Research Council, said that it and 41 other groups ran a newspaper ad on Monday asking the BSA not to change the policy, and some conservative religious groups have urged their supporters to join in prayer to ask the board not to accept gays.

    Jennifer Tyrrell, who was ousted as leader of her son’s Tiger Cubs den last year because she is a lesbian, said she was heartbroken over the news. She and other gay rights' advocates had hoped instead to be welcoming what they feel is an overdue change amid recent gains for the LGBT community nationwide.

    The Boy Scouts of America delays until May a vote on whether to end a ban on gay members. NBC's Jay Gray reports.

    "I had so much faith that they would make the right decision," Tyrrell, a mother of four from Bridgeport, Ohio, said through tears. "So many people are supportive of this. For them to make the announcement that they are going to possibly change it and then delay it, I just feel is -- it doesn’t make any sense."

    She added: "A Scout is supposed to be brave. What are they waiting for? They know they are on the wrong side of history. They know that."

    Courtesy Jennifer Tyrrell

    Jennifer Tyrrell, of Bridgeport, Ohio, and her son Cruz. Tyrrell was ousted from her role as leader of her son's Tiger Cub den last year because she is gay.

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which in 2011 sponsored 421,000 youth by chartering local troops, welcomed the decision.

    "The Church is following this proposed policy change very closely," a spokesman for the church, Michael Purdy, said in an email. "We believe the BSA has acted wisely in delaying its decision until all voices can be heard on this important moral issue."

    A coalition of Boy Scouts councils representing some 540,000 youth -- or 20 percent of the organization’s 2.6 million active Scouts -- asked the national organization on Monday to delay a decision on ending the controversial policy, saying it was concerned “about the pace at which such actions are being taken,” according to a statement posted on the website of the Utah-based Great Salt Lake Council.   


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    Roger “Sing” Oldham, spokesman for the conservative Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee, said the outpouring of feedback on the issue came as no surprise to him since his group felt the BSA had not allowed opponents of the change to weigh in on the proposal. Oldham said he had spoken with some troop leaders, pastors and parents -- some who said they would leave the BSA if the new policy was implemented. 

    With more than two-thirds of Scouting groups affiliated with religious bodies, faith plays a large role in the private youth organization.

    Oldham said Wednesday that his group was “very pleased” with the decision to wait and solicit input from all members of the Scouting family.

    “We continue to be hopeful, perhaps a little bit more guardedly optimistic than we were before, that the Scouting leadership, having heard from the American public, is going to realize that yes, while it is a divisive issue, that the net loss of changing the policy may be far greater than the net gain of changing the policy,” he told NBC News.

    Tyrrell’s ousting came a few months before California teen Ryan Andresen was denied his Eagle award because he is gay.

    Both cases made national headlines, roiling the BSA. Some critics pointed to declining membership numbers as a sign that families were being turned off over the issue. The controversy also prompted a few hundred Eagle Scouts to turn in their hard-earned regalia in protest of the ban, which the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in 2000.

    Zach Wahls, an Eagle Scout and son of a lesbian couple who started Scouts for Equality to campaign for gays to be included, said Wednesday's action by the board was "an abdication of responsibility."

    "Unfortunately, the BSA now has to answer to ... the hundreds of thousands of Scouts that had their hopes raised and then (subsequently) crushed by this announcement," he said. "It is disappointing, no doubt about it, no doubt about it."

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the BSA's decision on the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

    Related:

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays 

    Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy

    2119 comments

    As a former scout, I say delay it forever...

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    Explore related topics: boy, america, gays, lesbian, policy, scouts, membership
  • 4
    Feb
    2013
    5:51pm, EST

    Boy Scouts councils to national HQ: Don't make hasty decision on gays

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    A coalition of Boy Scouts councils representing some 540,000 youth asked the national organization on Monday to hold off on determining whether to end the controversial policy banning gay Scouts and leaders, saying it was concerned about the executives’ fast pace on a decision that can’t be “undone.”

    The Boy Scouts of America's announcement last week that it may eliminate the exclusion of gays from membership at the national level, leaving the decision to its local units, has led to some soul-searching and a lot of questions among Scouting families and their chartering organizations. Some families have indicated they may leave if the ban is lifted, but many have welcomed a change they feel was long overdue.

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    The Scouts' began National Executive Board and Committee meetings on Monday, and a decision on the gay ban is expected Wednesday.

    The coalition of 33 Boy Scouts councils representing some 540,000 youth, or 20 percent of the organization’s 2.6 million active Scouts, has “united to express our concern about the pace at which such actions are being taken,” according to a statement posted on the website of the Utah-based Great Salt Lake Council.  “… we request that a final vote on this policy reversal be delayed to allow other stakeholder’s voices to be heard and a more thorough analysis of the impact on local councils.”

    The decision comes just seven months after the organization said it was sticking with the policy following a confidential two-year review of the disputed membership guidelines. That review was announced months after Jennifer Tyrrell was dismissed from her post as leader of her son’s Tiger Cubs den because she is a lesbian, and a few months before California teen Ryan Andresen was denied his Eagle award because he is gay.

    Both cases made national headlines for several weeks, roiling the private youth organization. Some critics pointed to declining membership numbers as a sign that families were being turned off over the issue.

    Tom Pennington / Getty Images

    Will Oliver, an Eagle Scout, Greg Bourke, a former Assistant Scoutmaster, Jennifer Tyrrell, a former Cub Scout den mother, and Eric Andresen, a former Scout leader, deliver boxes containing 1.4 million signatures urging the Boy Scouts of America to reverse the organization's ban on gay Scouts on February 4, 2013 in Irving, Texas.

    The coalition, though, said: “While we understand the urge to support those councils who feel that the current policies negatively impact their ability to remain viable we also think that equal support and consideration should be given to those councils whose ability to remain viable will be impacted by adopting the new policy.”

    It said the proposed policy “flies in direct contradiction” to the results of the two-year review and noted: “Time must be allowed for accurate polling data to be collected from stakeholders at all levels and all areas in an unbiased way. The voices of existing chartered partners and financial contributors must be heard alongside those of our volunteer leaders and the parents who entrust their children to us. This is a decision which cannot be ‘undone.’”

    'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays 

    The Great Salt Lake Council also said that it explicitly opposed any changes to the current membership policy without open discussion and deliberation with the various individuals who make up the organization.

    When asked for comment about the positions of the coalition and the Great Salt Lake Council, BSA spokesman Deron Smith said in an email: “We recognize, deeply respect and appreciate the sincere beliefs about this issue.”


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    Advocates on both sides of the issue have stepped up their campaigns ahead of the BSA's final decision: They’ve encouraged their backers to make their voices heard through a phone-in and email deluge, a conservative group, the Family Research Council, said that it and 41 other groups ran a newspaper ad on Monday asking the BSA not to change the policy, and some conservative religious groups have urged their supporters to join in prayer to ask the board not to accept gays.

    Tyrrell, of Bridgeport, Ohio, and Ryan Andresen’s father were among a group that delivered petitions to the Boy Scouts' headquarters in Texas on Monday bearing more than one million signatures calling for an end to the policy.

    “It’s crucial because they are in the middle of making this potentially historical decision,” Tyrrell, 33, a mother of four children, told NBC News after delivering four boxes filled with the petitions and additional comments to a Boy Scouts' representative. The group had heard the organization has been receiving “a lot of negative feedback” from religious groups and wanted to provide the petitions so the BSA could see that “there are many people that support this and want this.”

    “There are 1.4 million Americans that have signed petitions supporting the change in BSA policy,” said Andresen, 52, of Moraga, Calif. “That’s quite a statement. … that’s a lot of people supporting change.”

    Tyrrell and other advocates have previously delivered some of the petitions, which Smith said the BSA had accepted, too. “The BSA has received a great deal of feedback from a variety of viewpoints and we appreciate everyone sharing their perspective on this issue,” he wrote.

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    Andresen’s son, Ryan, 18, is still hoping he will receive Scouting’s highest ranking, the Eagle award, though the journey has done a lot of damage to him emotionally, said Eric Andresen, who resigned as the committee chair of his son’s troop after the problems began. One of the family’s main objectives was to help others, such as boys who may still be hiding in the closet.

    “I’m hoping that the board continues to do what’s right and deliberate this week and make the decision that we hope they’re going to make,” he said. “If they don’t, we’ll be back.”

    Related stories: 

    • Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy
    • Eagle Scouts return badges to protest policy banning gays
    • Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays 

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the possibility of a change in the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.

     

    888 comments

    More unfortunately is those who still, in ignorance, choose to not just diminish, but denigrate, the lives of so many people in this world. I have never met a gay person who did not at some point in their life scream out to the universe, wondering what they'd done to be put into such a place.

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  • 1
    Feb
    2013
    8:39am, EST

    'BATTLESTATIONS!': Call-in war waged over Boy Scouts' ban on gays

    /

    A statue in front of the National Scouting Museum in Irving, Texas, on Monday.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    “BATTLESTATIONS!” “The phones are ringing off the wall.” “Good turn for the day. (takes less than one minute).”

    Follow @mimileitsinger

    These are the battle cries made by advocates on both sides of the debate over allowing gays into the Boy Scouts. They are urging their supporters to call or email the private youth organization as it weighs lifting its longstanding, controversial ban, with a decision expected next week.

    The new policy, now under discussion, would revise the national organization’s rules to allow local sponsoring organizations to decide for themselves whether to admit gay scouts and leaders. If approved, the change could be announced as early as next week, after the Boy Scouts of America's national board holds a regularly scheduled meeting.

    On the Facebook page for George Takei, known for his role as Mr. Sulu in Star Trek, he urged those wanting to end the ban to hit their “BATTLESTATIONS!” and to “Takei Stand.” He gave supporters a step-by-step guide, telling them to call, say they were for the change, and then to like and share the message.  As of Thursday afternoon, more than 56,000 people had liked his status and 41,000 had shared it, while another 6,000 left comments.

    “Let's FLOOD their lines with thousands of calls. (Believe me, the other side's busy, too...),” he wrote.

    And indeed, they were. The Family Research Council, which supports maintaining the ban, noted in an appeal to its supporters on its website: “The phones are ringing off the wall.”

    “If you've tried to get through to the Boy Scouts of America (BSA), you know it's been tough. If you've wanted to express your concern about the BSA abandoning their longstanding policy of safeguarding Scouts by restricting openly homosexual Scout leaders from holding leadership positions, you may have been greeted by an endlessly ringing phone. This may be one instance in which the Boy Scouts were not prepared,” for what the council said was the response of thousands of Americans opposed to the change.

    It then listed the numbers for each of the BSA’s board members and provided a sample phone script for supporters to read. On the council’s Facebook page, a similar post had received nearly 3,900 likes and more than 2,800 shares plus 800 comments.

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    When a reporter called the BSA Wednesday night, a woman who answered the phone asked, “Are you for or against the proposed policy change?” When the reporter identified her news organization, the woman said the Scouts had been taking calls since about 3 p.m. Monday and it had been very busy.


    Follow @NBCNewsUS

    “When we receive calls we are indeed allowing people to provide feedback, but it’s not a poll (and we won’t be releasing data about the feedback),” BSA spokesman Deron Smith said in an email, responding to an inquiry about the calls and when they began.

    On the organization's Facebook page, people were asked to provide feedback by email or to a phone number provided. Some who posted there asked about getting a running tally.

    But by Thursday afternoon, opponents of the ban reported that the BSA was no longer taking the phone feedback (Smith did not respond to an inquiry on whether the BSA had stopped). So the secondary tactic was deployed.

    “so inundated! recorded msg states system can no longer take calls! revolution by email it is,” wrote one poster, identified as Seattle Punk Rock Aerobics.

    Related stories: 

    • Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy
    • Eagle Scouts return badges to protest policy banning gays
    • Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays 

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the possibility of a change in the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age and Boy Scout affiliation.

    2462 comments

    Friendly reminder: Lord Baden-Powell who founded the Boy Scouts was himself gay.

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  • 28
    Jan
    2013
    7:21pm, EST

    After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban

    One decade ago, the US Supreme Court ruled the Scouts had the legal right to exclude gays, but the organization's new policy would allow local troops would be able to decide the issue for themselves. NBC's Pete Williams reports.

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    Jennifer Tyrrell cried when she got the news Monday that the Boy Scouts of America may be changing its policy to admit gays and lesbians as Scouts and leaders.

    The mother of four children was kicked out of the private organization last year, as den leader of her son’s Tiger Cub pack in Ohio, because she is a lesbian. The longstanding policy has sometimes seen the quiet, or in Tyrrell’s case, public, exit of gays – an exodus that has rocked the Boy Scouts and led to growing calls for the group to open its doors to all who want to join.

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    “I’m looking forward to the day when we can once again take part,” Tyrrell told NBC News by phone, reminiscing about all of the fun activities she so enjoyed with her son Cruz and the youth in her pack, such as the Pinewood Derby and campfires. “This is a gigantic leap, especially on this … decades-old policy that they have gone to the Supreme Court to defend. … Of course it’s not the ultimate, but it’s definitely a great hurdle.”

    It’s not the ultimate, according to Tyrrell and others, because the proposal would eliminate the ban at the national level, but would allow local sponsoring organizations to decide whether or not they would accept gays, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported.

    Courtesy Jennifer Tyrrell

    Jennifer Tyrrell and her son Cruz. Tyrrell was ousted from her post as den leader of her son's Tiger Cub pack in April 2012 because she is gay.

    “So essentially, instead of forcing people to discriminate they’re going to allow people to discriminate,” said Zach Wahls, who is the son of a lesbian couple and who has been leading a campaign fighting to include lesbians and gays in the Scouts. “Even though one is less bad than the other, we still need to make sure that local units are understanding how a ban on gay members negatively affects their unit.”

    Still, Wahls said, it was a step in the right direction though the Boy Scouts do have a ways to go.

    “Compared to where we were seven months ago, with the BSA, you know, calling this the best policy for the organization right now and then seven months later understanding well actually … that’s not quite true, it’s a big development,” he added.

    Wahls was referring to the Boy Scouts announcement last July that it was sticking with the policy after revealing it had undertaken a confidential two-year review of the disputed membership guidelines. It also came a few months after Tyrrell was forced out and a day before she handed in a petition to national leaders with hundreds of thousands of signatures calling for her reinstatement.

    That prompted a number of Eagle Scouts to turn in their hard-earned regalia, with more than 200 posting their letters and photos of their medals, pins or certificates to a tumblr page started by Burke Stansbury, a 36-year-old communications specialist in Seattle, Wash., who decided to leave the Scouts for good over the issue.

    Stansbury welcomed the news of the proposed change but said he wasn’t sure if he would ever go back.

    One decade ago, the US Supreme Court ruled the Boy Scouts of America had the legal right to exclude gays, but the organization's new policy would allow local troops would be able to decide the issue for themselves. NBC's Pete Williams reports.

    “I sort of said all along that I was really making a decision to do this, that they’ve held on too long and that, you know, I’ve lost faith in the organization regardless of what changes they might make in the future,” he said.

    Stansbury said he would wait and see if the Boy Scouts ended up reversing the policy and if they “actively worked to be an open and inclusive organization.”

    The discussion of the potential change in policy is nearing its final stages, according to outside scouting supporters. If approved, the change could be announced as early as next week, after the BSA's national board holds a regularly scheduled meeting.

    “Before I made any decision about rejoining or asking for my medal back, I’d really want to see that it was being implemented but yeah … I am certainly open to seeing what happens and I mean, there is you know, much to love about the Boy Scouts as an organization,” he said. “So if they were to change, it would take some time, I think, to rebuild the trust of people like me who lost faith. But I think it’s still possible.”

    One of those most impacted recently by the Boy Scouts’ policy was Ryan Andresen, 18, and his family. Andresen said he was denied submitting his application for the Eagle rank to the national organization by his Scoutmaster after finishing his final service project last fall because he is gay, and after coming out as gay to his troop last summer.

    After much back and forth with the local council in Moraga, Calif., and hard feelings on both sides in a story that made national headlines for weeks, his application for the pinnacle Boy Scouts’ achievement was forwarded to the national headquarters for approval, said his father Eric Andresen, 52.

    John Makely / NBC News

    Ryan Andresen holds an Eagle Scout pin that was given to him by a fellow Scout who is gay on Friday, Oct. 12, 2012, in New York, N.Y.

    Ryan, a high school senior, was still hoping for the award, even though he already knows he has earned it, Eric Andresen said.

    “Four months ago, if the ban hadn’t been in place, we wouldn’t even been going down this road. … He’s been hurt a lot. There’s been a lot of damage done to Ryan emotionally,” he said Monday. “If the board does elect to get rid of the policy, I don’t know why they wouldn’t then retroactively award Ryan his Eagle. They certainly should.”


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    Eric Andresen, who resigned as the committee chair of his son’s troop after the problems began, said he was done with the organization after 10 years as an adult leader, but he hadn’t yet broached the possibility with his son of being able to participate as a volunteer or leader one day if the policy is changed.

    “I don’t think that’s a conversation that … I’d even want to start it with him right now,” he said, noting that after Ryan spent a dozen years with the Boy Scouts, the group “turned its back on him” and was “responsible for all of the grief he’s gone through the last four months.”

    One of the Andresen’s main objectives was to help others, such as boys who may still be hiding in the closet.

    “If BSA does do the right thing … we’re looking at, you know, what this is going to do for thousands of other Scouts so that nobody else has to go through what Ryan went through,” he said. “It’s time to end this stuff. Gay kids have a right to be Scouts, too.”

    Related: 
    Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy
    Eagle Scouts return badges to protest policy banning gays
    Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays

    If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on whether the membership policy should be changed, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age and Boy Scout affiliation.

    628 comments

    I don't think it was right of the Boy Scouts to ban homosexuality and then never tell anyone about it or post it in their bylaws. If this private organization was upfront about its membership criteria, we could have avoided this whole twisted mess. As a male with a an active heterosexual appetite, I …

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    Explore related topics: of, boy, america, gay, lesbian, guidelines, policy, scouts, lgbt, membership
  • 28
    Jan
    2013
    11:53am, EST

    Cub Scout pack: We're dropping gay-friendly policy in face of Boy Scouts' pressure

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    A Cub Scout pack in Maryland has decided to jettison its gay-friendly membership guidelines under threat of losing its Boy Scouts of America charter, according to a statement on the pack’s website.

    Pack 442 of Cloverly, Md., had adopted a non-discrimination policy that read: “Pack 442 WILL NOT discriminate against any individual or family based on race, religion, national origin, ability, or sexual orientation.”

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    But over the weekend, the pack posted a notice on its website reading: “Due to pressure from the National Capital Area Council of BSA, Pack 442 was forced to remove its Non-Discrimination statement in order to keep our Charter (set to expire Jan 31st). This Non-Discrimination statement, previously posted here, welcomed ALL families.”

    The pack’s position ran counter to the Boy Scouts’ membership guidelines, which ban openly gay members or leaders. 

    Activist groups stepped up their campaign to end the longstanding ban last year after California teen Ryan Andresen was denied the Eagle rank because he is gay, and following the dismissal of Jennifer Tyrrell as den leader of her son’s Tiger Cub pack in Ohio because she is a lesbian.

    Theresa Phillips, committee chair of Pack 442, said her group had the same motivations.

    “I think we need to start at this level,” she told NBC News on Saturday. “We need to teach the boys … respect for other people and their lifestyles.”

    A call placed to Phillips on Monday seeking comment on the removal of the policy was not immediately returned. It was not clear if the pack would continue to accept all families under a “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach similar to the one used by the military until it was rescinded last year.

    Cub Scout pack may lose charter if it keeps gay-friendly policy

    The pack’s member families approved the non-discrimination policy last August, and it was discussed in detail with district leaders and the regional council, to which the pack belongs, from August through October.


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    The issue appeared to be settled, but when the council “contacted us a few weeks ago pressuring us to remove our statement, we attempted to negotiate a rewording of the statement that would represent a compromise on the matter, but ultimately NCAC leadership felt only removal of the statement would be acceptable,” the pack said on its website.

    “It's clear to us that they chose this time to bring that up because they knew that we needed to recharter at the end of January,” Phillips said.

    Scout Executive Les Baron, a council leader, confirmed to NBC News on Friday that the pack could lose its charter if it maintained the policy: The “policy of the Boy Scouts are what they are and my job is to not bring into (it) my own personal feelings.”

    The pack committee had been split on a way forward, which prompted a poll on whether they would keep the policy and possibly not be rechartered, or if they would remove it and return to a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy welcoming all families.

    The poll, which ended Friday night and was conducted on the pack website, came out 53 percent in favor of reverting to “don’t ask, don’t tell” and 47 percent backing the new policy, said Phillips, who voted in favor of explicitly including gays and lesbians. The poll had called for a two-thirds majority, she said.

    The Boy Scouts reaffirmed its ban on gays and lesbians in 2012 following a two-year confidential review.

    A national BSA spokesman, Deron Smith, said in an email on Friday that the private organization "has policies that all councils and local units agree to follow."

    Related: 
    Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy
    Eagle Scouts return badges to protest policy banning gays
    Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays

    148 comments

    Not that I really care but they're probably from the Webelo (pronounced "we-bellow") pack. I wonder why they would use this name when others are called "Wolf Pack etc...? Oh well. Bottom line who really cares?! Look at the military. Regardless of someones sexual orientation, if they are better at th …

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    Explore related topics: of, boy, open, america, gays, lesbian, ban, policy, scouts, lgbt, cub, tyrrell, andresen
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